Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 185. Julio Torres: Off-Broadway, SNL, and Why Barbie Isn’t Pink

Episode Date: September 22, 2025

This week Mike sits down with Julio Torres to talk comedy writing and color theories. Based on ideas posited in Julio’s new Off-Broadway solo show, Color Theories, the two of them get to the bottom of what color Barbie the Movie, Martha Stewart, and Jeremy Strong are. They also discuss the behind-the-scenes story of Julio’s viral SNL sketch, “Papyrus” starring Ryan Gosling. Plus, two encounters Julio and Mike had at the gym that aren’t sitting right with them. Please consider donating to: GLITS Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

people that have never met me feel some kind of kinship to me through my work. And sometimes it's hard to place if, like, is this someone I met at a party or is this someone who I've never met in my life? Yes. And so I'm like, hey. And then they're like, hi, how's it going? Yeah. Good.

And I was actually telling my partner that's like, oh, one of these days I'm fully going to, like, invite a stranger to my home. Like, I'm fully going to. By accident, you mean? Like, because you're playing through the idea? Oh, yeah. Or, like, I'm fully end up going to go to a wedding of people who I have no idea who they are. That is the voice of the great Julio Torres.

We are so excited that Julio Torres, who we've wanted to have on the show for so long, finally made it to the working-in-out studio. He is a wildly creative, writer, performer. You might know him from his work. on Los Espookies or his movie Problemista. I just saw his new solo show color theories at Performance-based New York. It's fantastic.

It's wildly original. He wrote for S&L. In fact, he wrote this brilliant iconic papyrus sketch with Ryan Gosling we talk about today. In case you're wondering whether this is a topical podcast. It is not a topical podcast. The episodes are evergreen. However, with the Kimmel stuff,

Last week, I posted something on Instagram. If you don't have Instagram, I wrote something very simple. I wrote, I've spent a lot of time in public and private defending comedians I don't agree with. If you are a comedian and you don't call out the insanity of pulling Kimmel off the air, don't bother spouting off about free speech anymore. That's all I wrote. A bunch of news outlets asked me to come on their shows and talk about it. I don't really want to talk about it.

I just have my little statement, and I'll tell it, just tell it to you as well. Also, special announcement, we have launched Working It Out Premium. Come on. This is an ad-free version of the podcast available exclusively through Apple Podcasts. We just launched it. It's $4.99 a month. We finally did it. And if you sign up for working out premium, you get, number one, an ad-free version of the podcast, no ads ever.

Number two, you get to support the show. We work really hard on it. We got a staff. We make it sound really nice for you and look really nice. on YouTube. Number three, bonus content. We will be releasing bonus content for our subscribers, who I am calling Secret Public subscribers. We're going to have more in-depth Q&A's. We're going to have bonus discussions with guests. I'm going to write some more essays and Secret Public Journal entries, and so you will get all of the deep dive stuff. I love this talk with

Julio Torres. We talk about colors. We talk about the papyrus sketch and it's sequel. Enjoy my conversation with the great Julio Torres. I was self-conscious today. I put on a more colorful shirt than I would have. And it's not impressive, but it's better than what... Your show has a lot of criticisms of navy blue, not as a literal color, but as a concept. Yeah.

And you have a color-themed show. And so then I get self-conscious. Do you find people getting self-conscious around you about color? Yeah, and I wish I could free people from that because to be self-conscious about it is too literal of an interpretation of what I'm doing. I'm even embarrassed admitting it because I know I'm being too literal.

Yeah, but then it becomes this thing. But you know what? I hope that I can only hope that I invite play and experimentation and not like dread and fear. no totally yeah i don't want to be like the colors are the colors are yeah i don't want to be the colors are yeah i don't want to be the colors are or like i would assume people think about around like an anna winter or something like that

right i don't want to um just just be you just be you just be you do you feel like it took a long time for you to just be you or were you always like growing up like this which is when i say this i mean artistic, experimental, you know, like, like creative, you always have it? Childhood, yes. And then I lost it in adolescence, I think. I lost it in adolescence in that sort of like

useless effort to try and like be like the rest. Sure. Which is navy blue, right? Which is navy blue, yeah. To be regimented? Yeah, yes. To be a follower of sorts. To be a follower of sorts to want to, like, I mean,

I feel like there's a. reason why men cloaked themselves in navy blue, right? Because it's like, blending in. It's saying, I see, there is a system here, and it's better if I'm just a part of it. Yeah. But, yeah, I lost it a little bit in adolescence, but then I found it again in adulthood. Yeah. Late adolescence adulthood. That makes sense. Yeah. When you had it in When you've lost an adolescence, did anyone notice? Like, did anyone call you out on at your friends or anything? No.

I didn't have friends. No friends. I didn't. I, not really. You grew up in El Salvador, right? Yeah. Yeah. Not really.

And I distinctly, I actually distinctly remember in the fourth grade. For whatever reason, the fourth grade was very important for me. Me too. Huge. Really? Huge grade. Yep. Mrs. Sinkiewicz.

Shout out. Mrs. Zinko, you remember. She's my teacher, yeah. Oh, wow. I did not like... Do you remember your teacher's name? Okay. No.

I remember... But here's what I remember about her. She was one of my least favorite variants of teachers. Okay, sure. Describe the variant. I mean, first of all, shout out to all the teachers. Yes, of course.

Of course. Respect to all the teachers. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But she really made a very, I thought, burdensome attempt to be cool. Yeah. And to be. Oh, I know that teacher.

Likeed. And so there were, there were like voices. There was a guitar. There was a puppet. And I just felt like I couldn't emotionally access what she was selling. Right. I get that. It's almost like you needed, she was demanding more of a reaction to you than you even had.

She was so needy. I know. It just felt like emotionally draining to have to be in a constant state of performance of awe of her. You're, okay, I'm going to circle back to teachers, but I think you're hitting on a thing that drives me nuts about some performers of comedy. This is why people shiver at the idea of going. to like a comedian party. Right? When the comedian asks more of you than they're giving you.

Yeah. It drives me nuts. And this is something, I don't know if you've ever felt like this in performing, but like at least my, the opening night of my show, I felt humiliating. Oh, yeah. So hard. Opening night is terrible. This feels like by like bar mitzvah, kinsianera.

Like I'm asking all these people to come and look at me. All these people who, by the way, because it's opening night, I know at least. 50% of them in the audience. Yeah. So it just feels like like I'm putting a gun to their head and be like laugh. No, it's terrible.

Yeah, you're inviting people weirdly to your birthday and it's like not your birthday. It's a day you're deciding is your birthday. Yeah, it all feels like... It's this day. I know my birthday's in June, but this year it's in March.

There's something just feels so like thirsty about it. Right. About opening night. And also your fourth grade teacher. who was kind of guitar and presentation and just demanding so much reaction. And demanding so much reaction. So I felt like she was creating an atmosphere in which joy was the only acceptable response.

But anyway, at some point, very early in the school year, I remember thinking, I, like, vividly, I can't see where I was walking. we were like the whole class was walking somewhere and I thought okay once again this is not the year I make friends but I am so fine with that yeah I'm so fine with that's interesting I'm like I was like I let's a big breakthrough it was a huge breakthrough I was like I'm letting go of this uh and you enjoyed you enjoyed the solitude yeah because I was I was one of those kids that like never stops walking during recess. I don't know if that's a type of kid. Okay.

But, okay, I just never stopped walking during recess. That makes sense. So that. Avoiding connection. Well, not avoiding connection. It was so that teachers wouldn't clock that I was standing by myself. Oh. So I was always in a, oh, maybe he's walking over to a friend that I don't see because the friend is out of sight.

It's interesting because you talk about your fourth grade teacher being very like presentation and demanding something from the audience. But that's one of my- That's literally what I'm doing. that we're saying that's what you're describing yeah no but i'm saying no no you're the opposite your show okay good is it tracks it tracks because i'm like when i'm at your show i don't feel any pressure it's my favorite type of show which is i don't feel any pressure to have a specific reaction to like laugh at a specific moment or cheer at a specific moment it's just like the journey of like it feels

like to go back to the phrase earlier it's like you being you and we're there too yeah i i don't love it when and you can tell when something feels like uh it is calculating an emotional reaction out of the audience and it's doing the math whether it's like comedy math or like tears or like which is why i like you know i like make fun of like the the sort of like Pixar genre right right because it is you know in it's like unsuccessful versions you feel where the script math says you should cry here yeah and i really don't like that i'm i'm really allergic to being prescribed an emotion and it's hard to like i mean with entertainment is so hard to this this sort of um obsession which is driven by capital right of like having to recreate

something that worked yeah so it's like an artist earnestly comes up with something that is good and interesting and then that works and i'm defining works as like creates money yeah uh and so it's like oh let's do it again let's do it again and let's do it again and let's like I know. Let's do it again. And it's like, right, but like it being novel was part of it working. Like, in other words, like, if you look at like someone who's, like, really wealthy from being an artist, you're kind of like, well, they repeated the thing that worked. Yeah.

And thus, they're not actually doing the thing that made them the thing. Yeah. Or, like, I always notice, like, second or third year Saturday Night Live writers. suddenly everything, everything they write is, like, set in a conference room or an airport. And it's like, right, because you... You understand what gets on. No, but also you stop living a life. So now you're only ever at a conference room or an airport.

Oh, yes. And an airport, right? Yeah. That's really funny. Like, I was looking at the font sketch that you did for... Rode for S&L. Yeah. Papyrus.

It's so funny, and it's so unlike anything that any sketch on SNL. And I was curious, like, what was the pitch like? What was the pitch? Who did you pitch it to? You pitched to Ryan Gosling, you pitch it to the host, and then, like, did you think it would get on, and then how did you feel when it got on? It was the, so they do a pitch meeting where, like, the host sits in, like, every writer and

performer pitches an idea but that is more of a that is more of a like an icebreaker for the week for the for the celebrity host to feel like oh this is funny I'm in a group full of funny people

so people say things that they don't earnestly mean to make anything with because you're just trying to like make a room laugh basically so it's it can become like a one-liner um festival right uh and i had a a tweet uh back when i had twitter that was about that i couldn't i couldn't fall asleep because papyr because avatar used papyrus as the font and then i and then i said that and ryan gosling really loved it and then i just sort of like went

about my day and then he was like no but let's let's do that and i'm thinking and i'm thinking well that isn't anything that is that is a thought that is not but he saw a character in it yeah yeah he saw a character in it and then i was like okay and i started writing and i was like okay this is a funny little character study on this person yeah and i remember writing and i'm thinking like, I don't know what this is. Or like, I didn't know what it was, but it was just sort of like, meh. But then, like, seeing him perform it and how he committed to it. Yeah.

With such a level of earnest that it was really beautiful to see. And then, yeah, it was very watched. Do you ever see him? Do you ever run into him and go, hey, remember when, papyrus? I definitely don't run into him, but I... You know the way people run. into Ryan Gosling? Yeah, I mean, I think we live very different lives, but I saw him again when he recently

hosted again, and we did a sequel to it. Yes. So that's the last time I saw him, when he was like, should we do a sequel to it? Yeah. And once again, I was like, why? And then wrote it, and it was like, okay, this was fun. Yeah. He was right again.

What do you like in a collaborator? What's a quality you like in a collaborator? What's the thing that drives you? nuts in a collaborator. I feel like I'm lucky to attract people that really want to co-create

something and act or not as a puppet, but as co-creator of something. And I like when they take the work in earnest and they're not

attempting to come off as anything other than sincere yeah for the for the character because i think that is where what i do is funny right that these are like real it's not cartoon it's not cartoon these are real human beings right and if you flesh out a real human being that is so so preoccupied with something so ridiculous then it becomes funny yeah like i never was able to write the kind of sketch that I loved Saturday Night 4, which is, like, bigger, broader outlandish characters.

Right. Like, I loved Donatella Versace. My Rudolph has a Natella Versace or, like, or, like, you know, like a Target lady or something like that. But I never, I was never able to do that. But I always, like, that was a candy to me. Right. That's what hooked you in. That's interesting.

So can you, can you describe? describe to people your current show if people haven't seen it at all. Yeah, yeah, of course. It is called Color Theory's in which I attempt to use colors as a way to explain the world around us. That seems right? Yeah, okay. And to be clear, it's not literal. No.

Like, in other words, this is a... a shirt that has oranges and blues and things in it, but that's not how maybe you'd see me. What color would you see me as, or do you see me as? I think that, and this is something that I ended up not putting in the show, but I think that

what color am I, is the wrong question. Wrong question. Obviously. Gary, take these away. Yeah, I think it's Yeah. What color do you perceive me as? Okay. Or what color am I coming off as?

What color am I coming off as? I think you're coming. I think that in my limited sample size of you, I think that it's like a, I think it's like a bluish green. Okay. Yeah. It's like orderly, but it's also understanding. And that's the green?

Yeah. I'm going to have a crisis. You didn't like that? Because my concern is that the show is so judgmental of Navy Blue. Oh. Oh, my show. Yeah. That I'm concerned that I'm even getting close to blue.

That I'm even veering towards Navy Blue. But I do think that we all have these colors. Okay. Oh, that really freed you. You really like that. Yeah. Yeah. I was worried.

I could feel the relief. No, ever since I saw your show, it's a really beautiful show in so many ways. One, I mean, the design is tremendous. The design itself is tremendous. But one of the things that the show does that nothing else, so few things do, is nothing's like it. Nothing's like your show. Literally, you see a lot of solo shows, and you go, oh, that reminds me of this, reminds me of this, which reminds me of this. Your show is just like, oh, yeah, there's not.

there's nothing even similar. It's like an, it's an exploration of color, not even in a literal sense. An exploration of color with an asterisk. Yeah. Asterisks. And then the bottom says, not color. Not color.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so what do you, what do you think you come off as color-wise? I think to an audience, I come off as, like, as this sort of like

a multi-colored sort of like Wizard of Oz sort of thing but I think that I'm a lot I think that my soul is actually a lot I think it's actually a lot of gray in me

and I think that I am constantly like between knowing and not knowing and like I think that I'm a lot more anxious than people think I am and I think that I'm very like preoccupied with things and very like fixated with things I think I can be a lot more neurotic than people think I am and it just so happens that I found like different tools

what's your most embarrassing fixation? I mean I have okay so I have OCD so there's been a long list of of those i was um for a while and i think i'm definitely getting better now been an intense hypocondriac oh interesting intense intense intense intense you have oCD and you're a hypochondriac yeah that's a challenging combination yeah yes i i ended up going to uh like seven doctors in three days because the thing about sock doc is like they don't stop you like once you realize that Like, doctors don't tell on each other.

You can go to, like, a whole new doctor. So true. And like, start. But don't you have to go through your primary care doctor to get to that doctor? What primary care doctor. Oh, you don't have one. I have, like, whomever comes up first. Whomever is available, whoever, whatever doctor in New York City is available within the next few hours is becomes my primary doctor.

You just pay cash? Because you can't have it paid for by insurance, right? If it's not referred. Okay. I have no idea. I have no idea I just go I'm telling you

You're telling you You've never had them be like Hey no one referred you here I walk in I walk out And then I get a bunch of mail That I don't open You know how many

Because I've talked a lot About my ailments of the years You know how many doctors I've gone to And they're like We can't see you Because you haven't been referred By the proper blah blah blah

But you've never had that If you are If you, like me, have OCD, anxiety, and hypochondria, then you unfortunately become clever enough to... Trickster. You become a little trickster. And you end up getting catscans that you don't need. Oh, God.

An hour after you decided you wanted to get one. Have you had a cat scan that felt completely unnecessary? Yes. What was the ailment? well it ended up being a herniated disc oh okay so that was a real thing that's real but also like one one of the things that i kept doing was for whatever reason if i am looking for like a service of some kind be a doctor or like a dry cleaner or whatever and i see that something has like a really really bad reviews i go to that one because i'm like oh well surely this person's a genius

That is the logic of that. It's like, well, obviously this person is a genius and no one understands them. They don't know what he gets them. Yeah, because everyone's an idiot. Because deep down you're like a low rated, a low rated performer or something. I guess so. And you're like, that's who I am or something? Maybe.

Although you're not. You're like an accolated performer. I mean, that piece about you in the New York Times was like a different publication altogether. It was like they decided to be. They decided to be... The Julio magazine. Yeah, yeah. I decided to do a Julio magazine?

An EP of this thing. When you are... Like, the way that you talk in interviews, it's sometimes so whimsical. It's like, I want to make a... I want to make a theme park. I want to, you know, do... Like, your aspirations are so big and grand.

Definitely a ride. Creative and a... Yeah. But my feeling is, like, my question is, like, what is your most boring thought? well i don't know if it's boring but i'm definitely one of those like check the stove three times before you leave the house yeah i'm huge on that okay i never touch i don't cook so i never touch the stove no one never touches the stove that's oCD that's fully oCD yeah you don't cook

and you're always checking the stove yeah yeah okay what colors do the following people give off Barbie The doll Barbie the doll Okay obviously Barbie the doll is I mean she's a product

right so so so it's like I think it's like percent's fuchsia but is navy blue correct

correct yeah check Barbie the movie Barbie the movie I think it's like I think it's earnestly beige which

which is like heartfelt, I think, with hints of orange, which is, like, fun. It's not pink. Martha Stewart. Martha Stewart. Martha Stewart definitely has made money off of lavender and lilac, right? Like, that is the brand, right? But Martha Stewart herself,

I'm trying to think, I try to attribute a color to being determined. And I don't think it's as simple as saying it's, navy blue because there's something a lot more ingenious to her than that. I get that. It's navy blue, but it's more complex than that. It's a shiny navy blue. Right. Shear.

Yeah. Jay-Z. Orange. Jeremy Strong. I think my emotional reaction immediately, a gray extremely preoccupied with black and white. like constantly in search for answers and running away from black Wes Anderson I mean the man loves brown right

but I think he is I mean like a pale green it's funny like one of the things that you point out in the show is you're like I don't want to be Tui but then I was like wait how do we define Tui how do you define it I guess what I'm saying when I say I don't want to be Tui is I don't want to seem like I am doing the math

of coming out of being like cute and heartfelt right out of a place that isn't earnest right yeah how do you it's kind of similar what we were talking about earlier of like repeating the same art that you like

because a lot of people would say like you are cute right sure they would go like oh that's really cute yeah he's adorable yeah but that's obviously not your intent that's just a byproduct of what happens sometimes yeah i would say that's probably true west anderson too i think so probably i think i think at his core he's like i love trains i love trains and also like i want to talk about suicide yes so and it's like stop calling me cute Stop calling me cute This is called the slow round What are people's favorite and least favorite thing about you?

Okay, by people I'm going to narrow it down to like working with me. Mm-hmm. I think that maybe people like, that I'm collaborative and maybe a not so good trait is that I think sometimes it seems like I'm upset or something

or like sometimes I feel that people are trepidious about approaching me or something I get that I would be trepidious if I worked with you if you worked with me yeah I'll tell you why because I feel like not because anything you're giving off,

but because your work is so specific, your mind is so specific that to me I would be afraid that if I had a thought or a suggestion that it would be, the reaction would be like, what? No. Yeah, I can sense when someone has that fear and showing me something. Yeah.

Like, what the fuck are you talking about? Yeah. That's not what we're doing. Yeah, it's like, what is this? Yeah. What's something you believed 10 years ago, but you don't believe now? Oh, my God. That's a beautiful question.

I think probably that I am sick and unwell. You believe that 10 years ago? Yes. And you don't feel that way now? No. How did you arrive at that? Medication. Was it hard for you to get on medication?

It was hard for you to get there, the idea of it? It was a year since it was suggested. A year of people saying, you should do this, and you saying no. Yeah. When is the time you didn't apologize, but you wish you did? Whenever I have a tense moment with a stranger, they stay with me. Accidents happen. Sometimes in New York City, you catch someone.

yeah at their breaking point because we're yeah we're all so close to one another yeah and i don't know what this person's day life year yeah i i used have a joke about how sometimes you the some of the strangest things about living in new york city is that there's so many people breaking up outside benches park benches stoops and i say because it's too expensive to break up indoors you know i yeah and it's also too volatile right because then someone has to leave um true but i in in the the the film i made in this is like funny that you bring it up in problemista i something i really wanted to do and succeeded in some cases is having extras in the background yeah um going very visibly going through a problem

very very very very very visibly going through a problem that we don't address that are not part the story at all and there was a scene where i was so excited to do this i was so excited to do this and i i was like i'm going to have a couple breaking up and a stoop yeah as as like the characters in the foreground are doing something else and but because uh you know there's this there's this whole like set of rules regarding like directors and extras uh so you can't really talk to the extras when you're the director according to union rules. Correct. I think it's the second assistant director

who's allowed to speak with the extras, yeah. Yes. Background actors. And the reason why is then if the director is talking to the background actor, then they are then now an actor and now production has to pay them and they don't want to do that. That's right.

That's right. So anyway, I was like, okay, we're going to have a couple of breaking up. We're going to have a couple breaking up. And there is a couple breaking up in a stoop. but they are so not believable that they were ever a couple that it just doesn't, it just seems like two people that have absolutely nothing in common sitting next week. Yeah, yeah.

I was like, no, like, give me the most, like, heteronormative, like, man and woman. Yeah, yeah. To make it, like, yeah. How did you find, because you started the movie and directed the movie and wrote the movie? Yeah. How did you find doing all of those things? Because I did that with Sleepwalk with me. I found it to be so hard.

I enjoyed it. I thought it was easier than the alternative, which is like have a director be like my proxy or something. Or if I had to give up one of those three jobs, I would give up the acting part. Yeah. Acting was the hardest part. Acting was the hardest part by far.

Yeah, I had the same thing. I don't know my lines. I can't repeat the same blocking to save my life. I made myself a smaller part in my second movie Don't Think Twice and the movie I'm writing right now I'm not acting in because I'm, to me, my brain can't, at a certain point, can't do it. Well, it just, to me at least,

it doesn't dawn on me that I, I was like, all right, I have to act to like, like the cameras in front of me. And I'm like, oh, what did I do? What did I do? What did I do? Yeah. When's the time that you were caught in a lie?

constantly constantly constantly constantly when i am um bluffing that i remember someone right nice seeing you again versus nice meeting you yeah yeah and then it's like and then you can tell that they see in my eyes that i have no idea my daughter is an impression of me and she goes dad this is you nice to see you yeah you know actually Like, you know, because, and I love it. I'm very honored to have it, but there's, you know, people feel, people that have never met me feel some kind of kinship to me through my work, right? And sometimes it's hard to place if, like, is this someone I met at a party or is this someone who I've never met in my life? Yes.

And so I'm like, hey. Yeah. And then they're like, hi. And I'm like, how's it going? Yeah. Good. And I was actually telling my partner that it's like, oh, one of these days I'm fully going to like invite a stranger to my home. Like, I'm fully going to.

By accident, you mean? Like, because you're playing through the idea? Oh, yeah. Or like I'm fully end up going to go to a wedding of people who I have no idea who they are. This is material. And if you have anything, you're working on, throw it out as well. I was at breakfast at my hotel. This was in Vancouver the other day.

I was in terms of. And I was inadvertently dancing in my seat. And I didn't know it until the waitress caught my eye. And I was dancing. And I had to make a split second. decision, do I stop dancing? Or do I continue dancing? Because it was at that moment where I had to decide, am I a dancer or was I a dancer? That's all I have. I love it. I don't think you should don't explain any of it. Really? Do you think just throw it on stage? Just go around and

keep moving. It's interesting. I will try it. Based on your voted confidence, I will try it. I was thinking about it in relation to like maybe it's a larger macro thing about my I always try and think of, like, why am I, why am I writing that down? And I think it's that so many things in my life are like that. Am I a dancer? Was I a dancer? It's a beautiful sentence. Yeah. Especially coming from you. Why do you say that? Because it's, because first of all, the image of you dancing by yourself is funny. And maybe could end the show. What? And maybe could end the show. If that was a joke that worked strong up front, you could end with a dance sequence.

You know what I mean? You could properly choreograph a dance sequence. Yeah. That's nice. Was the dance a little like wiggle in your chair? Yeah, it was like moving to the music that was on, you know? Okay. Yeah.

I was at a gym in a steam room trying to get my voice ready for a show. And someone threw water on the steam catcher thing. And then all of a sudden there was a ton of steam in the room. And I couldn't even see two feet in front of me. And then there was probably five guys in there. And then I heard a bunch of friction and then maybe some lube. And then I heard someone say,

oh, God, yes. And I thought, maybe they're fans. I love that. Because it's also interesting to wonder, like, was that because of you or in spite of you? I think in spite of me. I do not. Yeah, that's a great point.

I think that's a great point. That my inner monologue was like, wait, was I, was that in spite of me? Or was that because of me? Am I so seen or am I so invisible? Yeah, yeah. That's beautiful. That's a beautiful phrase. Am I so seen or am I so invisible?

Have I, yeah, it's like, have I shifted the energy in the room or am I just so irrelevant to the energy in the room? That's right. Maybe something like, wait, sorry, maybe something like I heard, lube and i and then oh god is that what is that yeah yeah yeah i heard loob and then i heard oh god and i thought wow i i wish someone would appreciate me for my mind that's funny yeah yeah or so just simply i get i'm looking good i thought i am looking good i'm tired of being objective it's funny because that that same locker i had an incident that i have not been able to make funny at all, but I wrote it down. I write all the things down. That one was, I was walking to the

steam room. There was a guy kind of like shouting into his phone, like kind of like on a business call, like pacing. Okay. You know, and, uh, and then when I went, I came back from the steam room, he was still there on the phone. And it was like right in front of my lock or whatever. And I like had to go past. And I said something like, my. I go, hey, maybe, like, you could not be on the phone in here. And it was, the guy came at me in a way that was scary. Yeah. I mean, he just was like, you want to do this?

Like, he charged me. Oh, no. And I, like, jogged out of the steam room. And then I explained it to the front desk. I was like, hey, this thing happened just so you know. Like, I didn't want to get the guy in trouble, but I was like, just so you know. The guy's worrisome. There's a worrisome man in the longer.

and then they called me and they said we did an internal investigation and we've decided that your story is not true what and that and that he said that you were on the phone that's what that guy had said he said you were on the phone so again i don't have a joke for this it was just a shocking turn of events it's like hello do you remember this thing you already forgot about also internal investigation The investigation of the gym is like... We did an internal investigation. There are no records. There's no records of this man being on the phone

and then charging at you. In fact, you are a liar. In fact, you did it. In fact, you did it. You did it. Well, keep paying us $2.50 a month. I know. It was a rough one.

I have to say, like, this is where it's like sad and not funny. The guy charged me and then I left, and I was walking to my show. I was doing a show at the time. And I was shaking. Yeah. Do you have anything you work on that you want to throw out? Anything from the notebook?

Anything sort of half thought through? There is one, okay, your locker room moment made me think about one locker room I had in my gym where it's not a fancy gym and no one uses locks on their locker. the collective we just opens the lockers and, like, throws stuff in them. And the, this guy walks in and keeps opening the lockers and seeing that they're being used. So, and then he just keeps slamming them and goes, fucking freaks. Oh my God, just fucking freaks. Jesus.

A gym full of fucking freaks. Oh, my God. Fucking, fucking freaks. Oh, God. And, yeah, it's just one of those things that, like, I also don't know how to, like, make funny other than relaying the anecdote. Right. But it was just because that to him was symptomatic of a bigger problem in life.

Right. Right, which is, like, a lack of order. Yes. Right. He's probably, like, okay, he's an executive. but he's going to this gym that's not fancy so it's like okay so you're an executive

who can't afford the equinox so then you're like here with us but you don't like it's like you want to have your cake and eat a two or something it's like fucking freaks fucking freaks

yeah I think that's the challenge of being no one is stealing anything by the way interesting So are we freaks or are we free? That's funny. Like, therein lies the path to madness, I think, is... Like, imagine going to someone's house and being like, you don't have a security system?

You fucking freak. You fucking freak. And it's like, right, the doors unlocked your car. Freak. Freak. And then I... wrote this down and maybe this is something that it's not again i haven't shared this with anyone they say that they say if you want a better future you should never give up hope but i've given up hope

and i'm not sure if i'm supposed to say it like like because i don't want to slow down the hope train um i don't know why my mind went to election night i walked into the office of people that were like people that work in like signing people up to vote or something and then I see a poster like a oh no

I know what it is it's a banner that says Madam President in Barbie font and I'm thinking oh okay no it's no it's no it's no it's

it's no this is going to be bad this is going to Oh, this is what we've been doing? Madam President and Barbie font? Like, okay. We're so fried. The last thing we do,

just go working out for a cause. If there's a nonprofit that you like to give to, we will contribute to them and link to them in the show notes. Wow. Glitz is one of them. They're a trans organization. My friend Fran is very involved with them. They seem to be doing good work.

Glitz is a black trans-led advocacy and direct services organization that's dedicated to fighting systemic discrimination against marginalized communities in New York City and beyond. There you go. That's fantastic. And beyond. Glitz Inc.org will contribute to them. We'll link to them in the show notes.

Julio, thank you for coming to the show. It's such an honor. Thank you for having me. Working it out because it's not done. Working it out because there's no... That's going to do it for another episode

of working it out. You can follow Julio Torres on Instagram at, wait for it, Space Prince Julio. Somehow that makes sense now, right? I don't know why, but it does. Check out his show, color theories, at Performance-Based New York

until October 5th. You can watch the full video of this episode on our YouTube channel at Mike Barbiglio. Subscribe. We're going to be posting more and more videos soon. Check out berbigas.com to sign up for the mailing list to be the first to know about my upcoming shows. Our producers of working it out are myself along with Peter Salomon, Joseph Barbiglia, Mabel Lewis, and Gary Simon, sound mixed by Shub Saran. Supervising engineer Kate Balinski's special thanks, as always, to Jack Antonoff and bleachers for their music. Special thanks, of course, to my wife, the poet J. Hope Stein, and our daughter, Una, who built the original radio fort made of pillows.

And of course, we thank you most, the listeners. If you enjoy the show, please rate us and review us on Apple Podcasts. You know what helps? I always say this. Now, I'm going to say this as though I've never said it before. You know, it helps. You know, actually it just occurred to me. I just realized it helps if you write a little review,

you write a little stars next to it, a little five stars, and then you go, you know, my favorite episode is Julio Torres. My favorite episode is Hassan Minaj. My favorite episode is Bob Odenkirk. And then people go, Oh, okay. Then we know a good one to start because we don't know. There's billions of, I believe that's right. That's the correct number. Billions of podcasts. So we're trying to stick out because we're proud of what we're doing. Thanks most of all of you who are listening. Tell your friends. Tell your enemies. Tell that couple who's breaking up on the street. Don't be shy. Just jump right in. Hey, folks. I saw you're having a little relationship trouble. Maybe before you do anything rash, like break up. Take a breath. Share a pair of earbuds. Listen to this podcast called Working It Out where Mike for Biggley works out jokes and stories and discusses the creative process with other creatives.

It will not fix your relationship, but it won't make it worse. Thanks, everybody. We're working it out. We'll see you next time.