Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 189. Nick Offerman: The Man Behind the Mustache

Episode Date: October 27, 2025

Mike met Nick Offerman years ago at the Sasquatch! Music Festival in Washington state, which is fitting because Nick is a man of nature, almost as well known for his woodworking as he is for his acting. After examining the Working It Out studio table, Nick tells Mike about what it was like to act as the straight man to Amy Poehler on Parks and Rec, and more recently prep for his dramatic turn in the film Sovereign. Nick also shares some wisdom from the wood shop care of his new instructional book Little Woodchucks.Please consider donating to Girls Garage Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

We had this guidance counselor in the school, and he had this list of, like, 31 vocations. Yeah. And it's literally like lawyer, doctor, scientist, whatever. Yeah, carpenter. And I looked down it, and I was like, there's nothing in the arts. And I said, I want to be an actor. And he's like, that's not. That's not.

And I said to the guidance counselor, well, then I guess I'll play the sax. I love music. And he said, now why do you want to do that? That is the voice of the great Nick Offerman. Holy cow! We got Nick Offerman! This is huge. I have known Nick for many years.

We met at the Sasquatch Festival. It was a comedy tent years ago in Washington State, and I was so enamored by him. I'd been a fan of his for many years, but then such a sweet, sweet person, so funny. so fascinating. You might know him, of course, is Ron Swanson from Parks and Rec.

He's a classically trained actor who worked on stage in Chicago for many years. He was recently the start of a new movie called Sovereign, which is excellent. It's very intense. I will warn you, it's based on true story. It's really intense film. He is phenomenal in this film.

I mean, this is one of the best performances I've seen in a long, long time. And one of the more interesting people I've met in show business, just to give a little background, he's an expert carpenter and woodworker. He has a shop in Los Angeles that he's run all through parks and wreck and before it and now. And he has a new book out about that called Little Woodchucks, which is a great how-to woodworking guide for kids and adult. I have it. It's great. Check that out.

We have a great conversation today. Big news on our mailing list. You know how I've been doing this mailing list for actually over 20 years. Since I was a door person at the Washington, D.C. improv in the late 90s, I've had a mailing list. This is the 27 years, something like that. Anyway, I appreciate you being on the mailing list. I put a lot of time and effort into the emails I send out. We are adding a small component, which is putting in your phone number so that you

receive texts because often people are just not on their email or their email is insane. And I get sent to spam and people go, oh, I didn't get your email, even though I'm on your email list. And so now what I'm doing just to make sure people know when I come to your town, when I'm doing pop-up shows, when I'm doing, for example, my wife Jenny and I are doing jokes and poems again at Joe's Pub in New York City. And it's a very intimate venue, 160 seats. Last one sold out really quickly.

So if you want to be the first to know about that, make sure you're on the mailing list, but then also sign up for text alerts if you're a New Yorker, sign up for text alerts, and if you're anywhere, just any kind of like I'm talking about doing some shows in the new year in Philadelphia, some like smaller shows. If you sign up for the text alerts, you'll get that first. Head over to berbigs.com for all the details on how to sign up for that. And don't forget to sign up for working it out premium available on Apple Podcast. You just sign up. It's $4.99 a month. You get no ads, and then you get bonus episodes, and you support the show. You get this recent episode we did where I punch up listeners jokes. It's super fun and funny and fascinating, and we're going to do more of those. We're actually going to do one soon with Pete Holmes. Very excited about that. Anyway, this is a great talk with Nick Offerman. We talk about his book, Little Woodchucks. We talk about his new movie Sovereign. We talk about what it's like to hold your own against the improv tornado that is Amy Polaro.

on Parks and Rec. Nick even had some thoughts about our very own working it out studio table. Enjoy my conversation with the great Nick Offerman. This is your book, Little Woodchucks. Did you start as a Little Woodchuck? Did you start as a Little Woodchuck? Kind of, yeah. I have three siblings, and we grew up in this house. In hindsight, this is bananas. because I've always taken big swings. Like I was in my theater company, the Defiant Theater in Chicago in the 90s. I was the technical director,

so I was the guy that was like, yeah, like we'll get a truck. We can, no, I can build a 16-foot-tall tricycle. We'll get some giant cable, you know, and we did. And looking back on it, my dad, who grew up with my mom and farm families near each other in our town, he a farmer was going to tear down his two-story farmhouse like an Andrew Wyeth farmhouse and dad got wind of it and we had two of us at the time I was five and he made a deal with

this farmer to like install he had to build some cabinets and install them maybe five thousand dollars worth of cabinets or something yeah yeah and and then dad was allowed to jack up with a company He would jack up the house, put it on wheels, drive it three miles down the road, pour it a basement, plopped the house down on it. And that was our house. And he was a school teacher, and mom was a labor and delivery nurse.

And just looking back on it, I was like, oh, my dad is like Fitzcaroldo. Right. So it was passed down. Yeah, so I grew up, you know, like not only loving to use tools and make things, like a home, but I had that sense of like, oh, this is how you lead a family or a community by like, hey, you move a house sometimes.

Yeah, yeah. It's interesting, like when I watch your performance in this movie Sovereign, which is so good and so tough. I mean, it's a tough story. But I have to say, like, you know, you and I met a bunch of years ago at South Squash Festival and in East Washington and hit it off right away, I feel like. And so immediately I was like, oh, I want to have you on the show. But then I watched this movie, and I just had this experience with it where I just, I was taken with your acting being so authentic that I don't know where the script begins and ends.

Oh, thank you. That's really nice. You know, you have some background in obviously theater, some improv, certainly on Parks and Rectives improv. There was, but I don't, I don't, I'm straight theater, like Steppenwolf, Shakespeare. Like, I wanted to move to London and, like, you know, work at the RSC or something. Right, right, right. And while I was in Chicago, Amy Polar and Karel and Colbert, like, all the Second City people and Improv Olympics, they were happening. And I knew them, but at the time, we never saw each other.

Right. We partied together a little bit. But I was so ignorant. I was, if I had any idea that, if I had known that that was a pipeline to SNL, Yeah. I would have been all over it because I didn't know exactly what I was doing. But I was like, wait, so you make things up in a bar? That's really funny.

I'm performing works of literature. Yes, exactly. I'm doing something with my life. And only later I had no idea. That's what that was. But the thing that really hit me hard with your performance and sovereign is like sometimes you see someone's performance and you go, oh they're performing that part and they're doing a nice job sure and then you see what you did and you just go i don't there's no way he isn't that guy and i know nick right so i know he's not

that guy and i'm just wondering what your approach was well first of all thank you that's massive praise and i really appreciate it and that that's all i ever wanted to do was have that effect on people with my work to to to have them say oh fuck that's the guy from to somehow transform in a way you know that tricks people so that they don't think oh it's you know this actor that I know doing another role the you know the first response I have to that is I run into the way I pick jobs is is the writing moves me in a way that maybe it maybe the light goes off from the writing that I'm like oh I think I have the potential of having that effect on Mike berbiglia if i do this right and i read it and i just it immediately made me think of the january 6th rioters

sure um and and and with those and with this conspiracy theory you know so qanon all the people succumbing to misinformation and i've got and it also made me think of people in my hometown who i've known and loved my whole life there's this one guy who taught me to use a jackhammer when i was like 14 and he's just he's this lumpy Jack guy who's just a really benevolent figure in the town. He's a great Christian guy who's like a staunch Trump guy. And so he's my, he's, for me that represents and fit a little bit of conversation. And it's, it comes to an impasse pretty quickly where it's like, I've always loved you.

I think you have incredible values. I think you're getting bad information. And that's where it immediately stops. And he says, man, you're actually brainwashed. Like, I'm so sorry, you got bad information. Right. Because I watch, he's like, I watch journalists on Fox News. Yeah.

We reach this impasse from like, I don't know all I can do. So then I dwell in, well, I still love you. And I still like, you know, you're part of my hometown. And I still consider you a neighbor. Yeah. So no matter who you. vote for or you know i'm not going to get in an argument with you here on the sidewalk about abortion or gay people but uh i i still consider us on the same team in terms of like trying to

make a healthy community um and so this reading the script i just immediately thought of these people getting bad information like i think so many people in a january sixth setting for example you know somebody of those people when interviewed thought they were doing something heroic like they weren't you know they weren't born evil and I don't think that they're like clan like cross-burning clansmen or something

I think they're just like oh no we're losing our country like according to the politicians we listen to but we have a chance if we go to the capital today like we can take back our country for America like they thought they were heroic and and when I read this script what it struck in me was with those people and with this guy it just because the writing was so good and empathetic and humanizing I just immediately thought with a couple of bad cards in the hand I was dealt I could easily be this guy yeah like I just and it's because Christian's writing was

so beautiful. I was like, shit, this humanizes this guy who's a victim of banks and the governmental institutions that put the, in a predatory way, put their thumbs on the working class or on people that, people who don't have good health insurance or, you know, find themselves in debt, facing absolute despair. Yeah. And then they get these information streams where it's like, are you in despair, you know, are you, are you having a tough time? And I just, felt like, you know, it's an inscrutable thing. I'm not a macro thinker. So I didn't, I didn't have a concise thought about it. It was just like, I feel like I need to do this because it humanizes. Like, there's no point in shaking my fist at sovereign citizens. I'd rather

try and understand why they think that way and how we can have a conversation so maybe they don't shoot at people. Yeah, to give people context, the movie is called sovereign. based on this event where a father and son, without giving anything away, are traveling around the country and the father is kind of speaking to very, very small convention, motel convention settings of people saying conspiratorial things about the government and how what we don't owe to the government and what the government owes us. And the relationship between you and your son, who's played by Jacob Tremblay, who was also in room and was incredible. Yeah, I mean, we had a wonderful rapport.

He's, you know, he just turned 18, and he's so talented and good-looking that I, you know, that I openly despise him. Sure. And, but we had a lot of fun together, and we immediately, so we loved making each other laugh, especially when things got really dark in the movie. And so, but you do. you know, you sort of, there were days that were really emotional or where we had to be really even violent with each other.

And so you just sort of check in and, you know, work through things, like in a theater sensibility of like rehearse and talk through, okay, here's what we can do, here's how this is going to feel. Like, is this okay if I put you up against the wall like this? So you work it all out safely. And you do fight choreography. I mean, you actually teach it. Yeah, I mean, part of the basis of how I became a skilled carpenter was because I went to theater school.

And it's, to me, it's miraculous that I got into this theater school. At the last second, in 87, I was going to graduate high school in 88. And I told my small town, my sphere, that I think I want to be an actor. And everyone, I was in the plays in our little school and stuff, but everybody looked at me and they were like, I don't believe you can do that. I don't think that's done. I don't think that's a thing. And I said, and I played the saxophone at the time, and I loved it.

I was like the tenor sax and our jazz band and stuff. And I said, well, I guess, I guess then maybe I'll play the sax. And we had this guidance counselor in the school, Mr. John, rest in peace. He looked like a fucking orc. Like he was bald, fat, had this crazy underbite with three teeth, dandruff, like, comb over, stinky. And sitting there smoking in his guidance counselor office. And he had this ditto, like the purple Xerox sheet, but it was a ditto. So it was fresh.

Did you have those where you could still smell the ink? Oh, yeah. And he had this ditto sheet. And it had a list of like three. 31 vocations. That was the guidance counselor, like, okay, Nick, it's time to pick your vocation. Yeah. And it's literally like lawyer, doctor, scientist, whatever.

Yeah, carpenter. And I looked down it and I was like, there's nothing in the arts. And I said, I want to be an actor. And he's like, that's not. That's not. And I said to the guidance counselor, well, then I guess I'll play the sax. I love music. And he said, now why do you want to do that?

And there's a talented family, the Andersons, that were musicians. And the older brother, Rick, was a great trumpet player that, like, you know, won the state competition or whatever in trumpet. Yeah. And he said, you know, and he was four or five years older. And he said, well, you know, Rick Anderson went into music. Yeah. And now what's he doing? He's teaching band at, like, a small Illinois college.

Yeah. As though he had become a hooker. Yeah, that's a bad job. Why are you, look, this is crazy. Why are you dissing the greatest musician our towns ever produced who went on to do something really noble with his music? So I found out at the last second, I took my girlfriend, who was a year older,

to a dance audition at the University of Illinois. And I was like 16, 17 years old hanging in the hallway. And I met these two theater students. And somehow I wish I, you know, I wish we had shot it because I was like, wait, what? I don't know, they must have said, hey, kid, why are you loitering in this hallway? Somehow we struck up a conversation and I found, they said they're theater students. I was like, well, what does that mean? And they said, you know, we study acting to do plays.

And I said, and then what? And they said, well, you know, we probably will go to Chicago and you can get paid to be in plays in Chicago. And I literally was so ignorant. I had heard of Hollywood. I had heard of Broadway. Yeah. And those were like I couldn't afford to do anything outside of Illinois. Yeah.

And so the fact that I ran into these people that were like, you can, there's a viable living to be made doing plays in Chicago. Like Guardian Angels. An hour away. Yeah. So I got into this theater program miraculously. But then part of the. The miracle was, I got in and they were like, okay, you're terrible. That's great.

You have no idea what you're doing. And I, you know, and I didn't, I was scared, so I didn't say, then why did you, they only take, it's a conservatory. They only take like 16 a year. Right. So, how did I even get in? Yeah. And what I learned is you need a couple guys to carry the good looking people on and off stage. You know what I mean?

You need a couple of forest lords. Yeah, yeah. And as he liked it. But so while I was waiting to, like, get cast and plays, in this great facility, they had a beautiful wood shop. And everybody had to take wood shop and costume shop and lighting. So I was in the wood shop. And, you know, sure enough, they were like, can anybody hammer a nail? And I had been framing houses and stuff.

And I was like, I did a few things with tools. And it was like a shout out of bowling ball. The whole place was like, how can you do this? And the guy running the shop, Ken Egan, who I've still friends with, said, you know, we'll pay you wages. Like, you want to come work in here? I was like, fuck yeah. And so, for years, I was valuable to my friends who were acting and writing and directing. And they would give me little parts, but I would build the set.

And a couple of us were fight choreographers. and I learned prosthetic makeup. So I just loved making theater. And there were these other ways that I could be involved and make it with my friends. And we moved to Chicago and started the Defiant Theater

and I had my own scenery shop in a warehouse. And I thought I was going to be a scenery carpenter. And I loved it. Chicago's an incredible theater community. But then, like, slowly but surely, naturalism began to occur to me.

And when I was like 25 or 26, all of a sudden, I got, suddenly I started getting cast in plays in the parts that I wanted. And that began this matriculation that is still ongoing of like, you know, trying to do perfect acting, which of course is impossible. But so inadvertently, I became really good at carpentry while I was. you know, trying to learn how to act. And when I got to L.A., I still, you know, I was still trying to get jobs. And so meanwhile, I switched to find furniture. And so it just has always been a really fruitful part of my life,

even though it's not what I set out to do. So where do the idea for the little woodchucks come from? I feel like it's fitting with something you said in one of your comedy specials where you're giving advice about people, kids essentially should just get off of technology. That was one of the things you gave as advice. Well, sure. So this is my sixth book.

The third book is a proper woodworking textbook. And it's also really fun. And, you know, the thing about these are, like, this is ostensibly to make things with and for kids. It's for families to make things together. But it's really for anybody. Like, if you're an adult who wants to learn woodworking, this book is so fucking fun. Yeah. It's got so much humor.

And if you don't know how to use tools, that doesn't matter what age you are. You have this book to delightfully teach you how to use them. So the first book, there's this great woman who's my co-author. Her name is Lee Buchanan. She ran my wood shop for 10 years. Starting with Parks and Rec, that's when I was like, okay, if I want my shop to continue, I'm going to need employees.

Yeah. So I found this superhero named Lee, and she ran it for 10 years. And we always talked about doing stuff with and for kids. We talked about doing this book for a long time. And so finally, we came up with this list of projects. And it just seemed really timely because all of a sudden, like when AI sort of came so prevalently into the conversation a couple years ago, and also the way Elon, like, you know,

I feel like there are still people who don't think he's a total douche. because of even his supposed achievements in science and industry I think are all I feel like they've all been debunked where people are like well actually he's just a great business man

and front man but he actually doesn't invent anything I'm sure he's a clever thinker but his whole sensibility of and I think the world is going along with this where they're like

we don't climate change doesn't matter we don't need to worry about our natural resources because if we ruin this planet which we're okay with we'll throw it away and go to mars like Elon is setting us up yeah like so let's just play some fucking video games like what chill man yeah and it ties into this this morality of like that that when AI showed up it was like when certain ideologies and politics show up And I'm like, well, obviously, there's no way we're going to elect a rapist. I mean, what, you know, what are we? And then we elect a rapist or whatever we, you know, whatever missteps we make as a people. And I'm like, oh, right, we're not all reading progressive information.

Like, everyone is not on the same page. And so when AI showed up, I was like, well, clearly we love being human. clearly we love being human we love having agency yeah yeah we're gonna have some guardrails on this yeah no of course not and suddenly everyone's like this is great i never have to think again yeah it's so strange and uh and i love that movie one of for me one the most powerful pieces of media in our in our time is that movie wallie yeah where the fat baby people are floating around and they've forgotten they've made their lives so comfortable they've forgotten how to fly the spaceship or how to live.

And so when the shit goes down, they're like, we don't know how to use a tool, you know. And so having made my happy, successful life by using tools and by making things with my family and just living in a human way outside of virtual spaces, you know, and I write books,

I was like, all right, we need to urge families and people to make things together and to remember how to make things with our hands. Obviously, all these conversations require nuance. Technology is incredible, obviously. Like, it does a lot of good. All of these inventions do a lot of good. But they're also so addictive.

I mean, I love television, but I have to treat it like a dessert. Because if I treat it like an entree in my life, then I become fat and unhealthy and slothful and so forth. And I feel the same way about all these things. Video games are obviously a total gas, but I avoid them completely because I know I'll lose my life to them. Yeah.

I know I'm a monkey enough that they'll tap it. They get their hooks in me. Yeah, yeah, sure. I'd be like, Megan, like, I have to talk to you. Yeah. I haven't slept for 17 days. Yeah. There's a kid in Thailand that I'm going to fucking destroy in this game.

And so, you know, everything I do with sort of, you know, that touches on ideology and these morals, they're really just me talking to myself through the world where I'm like, you guys, Nick, stay out of the bar. Don't, like, don't become an alcoholic, everybody. Right. Everybody. That's great. When you're preparing for like a comedic role like you did in Parks and Rec versus probably a more dramatic role in The Last of Us, is the preparation different when you're acting? I mean, not really. Megan and I talk about this a lot because we love working on all kinds of different tones. Comedy, good comedy is generally, I think, harder than good drama because it's, It's the same stakes generally, but the stakes are higher, which is what takes it a little to, makes it funny. Because it's a little over the top.

So it's even more dead serious, which allows you to fly into a panic or whatever it is that causes the comedy. Comedy usually moves more quickly. It shoots faster generally. And so the prep feels a little more throwaway, like, you know, for some of the dramatic work I've been doing, you know, you have a little more time, I feel, to marinate in it. And so I feel like I'm, I have a better shot at doing good, realistic work, because it's moving a little more slowly. And with, and, you know, with, unlike Parks and Rec, it moves so quickly. But they created such a comfortable, supportive atmosphere that even though maybe you're just barely hanging on

and getting your scenes, especially Amy was learning so many pages a day. But of course, she's such a dynamo where something I'm not great at is if she had a monologue and she got through three quarters of it perfectly, if she started missing, she could still just improvise. And it would probably turn out better anyway. Where's that superpower?

Yeah. And I'd be more like, I'd have to, you know, I don't have the, I can improvise with them. But I don't have the power they have of like walking into a black stage. Yeah. And being like, how many pancakes you want? And like immediately creating a world. Yeah. Where I'm like, huh.

Did you find? Surrup. Check up my balls. Did you see, did you break in scenes when you were on that show? I feel like it would be so hard not to it, that cast. I enjoyed, I still enjoy not breaking. Like I'm mostly known for keeping a straight face and deadpan.

Because that was my thing. Like from the get-go, when I first read with Amy to finally get the job. Yeah. It was immediately apparent that the gag, the key to success was, you know, it's like Amy's like a Robin Williams or something where she's just a tornado. Yeah. So she's doing Leslie Knope across a desk from me. And I was like, oh, I have no fucking chance unless I just shut the fuck. Yeah, totally.

And let her do, be really funny. And I provide a counterpoint of withstanding the tornado. and then maybe at the end just say no or do something in a counterpuntal way and that instinct was right thankfully and they were like and the funny thing is

they're like what a collaboration have you ever have you ever had like built furniture for someone, and it was a debacle? No. The, I mean, the thing that you run into with solid wood construction is that the wood behaves. Like, what's beautiful about woodworking is it's this organic product. Yeah.

And you have to understand that with humidity, it expands and contracts. And so it's like, you know how doors stick when they get here? Sure, yeah. So you're dealing with that, but like with a table or a chest of drawers. And so all the techniques in woodworking are disqualification. are designed to accommodate that wood movement. Oh, interesting. It's really cool.

So like a tabletop, for example, this tabletop, if this was solid wood, would move in this direction seasonally because the grain are like long strands of spaghetti. And when spaghetti gets wet, it doesn't get longer as much as it gets fatter. That's interesting. And so if you can imagine this tabletop getting fatter and skinnier, sitting on this structure, the fastener, will be like a screw, say, with a washer with a, that has a slot, so that when it moves, the fasteners are tight, but they can slide.

Interesting. So a lot of woodworking. And so when you are making things for somebody's home, cabinet doors, there are things that you make that the wood can behave and really fuck you. Does your wood shop, is it in Los Angeles? You still have it. So you did all through Parks and Rec, and you still have it. Yeah.

Is it, what kind of do you make furniture and sell furniture? Yeah, it's, it's Offermanwoodshop.com. Wow. And we have four employees right now. We've had a wonderful crop of woodworkers come through over the years. The shop is over 20 years old. Fascinating. And we do commission pieces.

So we do like really high-end, you know, dining tables. Like, could you do a table? here that might be better for us than this table well well it depends i mean it's obviously uh subjective but it is this you know this is uh this is a nice this is solid wood like this drawer construction this this is a nice piece when it comes to like the sort of world of crate and barrel or sure those kind of stores um you know if we made you a table that that was in this in this wheelhouse unfortunately the bummer about that is it's way more expensive because of course it would be of paying people it would be a splurge for sure but it would be the the advantage would be that your great

grandchildren right could use it could have it yeah and it and it like it's solid wood and so it has a different right of different feel It has a different feel. Yeah. You feel more grounded. Mm-hmm. And could you ship it across the country? Sure.

I would like to discuss that after the podcast. Because I think that would be beautiful. I mean, that's our bag. Yeah. My favorite thing to make, the bread and butter that comes from my shop, is a table made of one slab of a tree. And the most popular is walnut, which this is. This is eastern black walnut,

which is gorgeous. We also get California clero walnut. Yeah. Which has some purple and green. It's even more groovy. Oh, that's nice. And beautiful. But it's one slice of a tree.

Oh, wow. So it has a thickness and it's lush. It's like a big slab of fudge. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so it's just, you know, it's a very charismatic place to set your teeth. Yeah, it's a much less synthetic universe. verse yeah which you know there's something to be said for it's like we're not purists this you know this

is very practical and this table feels good right um and it's you know this is in a utility serving versus you know like an heirloom piece that they make your dining table or what have you um all right this is the slow round um what are people's favorite and least favorite thing about you I love that you have a slow road Because I was just saying yesterday What a dumb thing I hate rapid fire questions Yeah yeah

They're like what's your favorite junk food And what do you say Doritos Who fucking like what What is that achieved? Right what does that achieve? Yeah that's not charming Let's take your time So what was the question

What are people's favorite And least favorite thing about you? Favorite and least favorite thing about me I think favorite Is I think I have a very pleasant disposition. You do. I woke up in the middle of the night and I go,

and usually I wake up in the middle of the night and go, oh my God, this person is coming to my studio. I'm so nervous. And with you, I wake up in the middle of the night, Nick Offerman's coming in the studio. That should be nice. Because you have a way about you that is a calming disposition.

Well, I come by it honest. I have to blame my mom and dad, like there's a we were brought up with a sensibility of like and it may be because i have three siblings but there's an idea and we were never wealthy so there's a sense of like and mom and dad did such a great job though of making us feel like our lives were rich as hell on a teacher's salary so i've always had this sense of like is everybody good does everybody need a beer or whatever yeah um and and so i i people do like me on productions because i go out of my way to make sure everybody's having a good time yeah you know if the crew's not having a good time i try to do

something about it because thanks well we're all making something together absolutely and i'm on the you know i'm one of the faces of it and i hate i would hate you know we all have worked with people where the crew goes home and they're like why What a jerk. No, I know. I think, I've heard this concept in movie and TV sets before, which is the idea of having a team captain who isn't the director. And usually it's an actor.

I don't think twice it was Keegan. And they just has this extra energy for everyone else on the crew. That's, I mean, it's the greatest. And Keegan is a great choice for that. Yeah. That guy's a walking ball of sunshine. Yeah. Um, so I, so I think that, you know, I think that's what people like about me is that I, I, I, it's hard to find me in a bad mood.

Uh-huh. Um, because what's the point? Right, what's the point? Sure. Even when things are shitty, I, I say, man, this sucks. And then I, then we find something to laugh about. Sure. While we suffer through this crappy situation.

Um, what people don't like about me, uh, that's, I, I, I. I think that I think that I ask a lot of people. I think my vice is what people don't like about me. My vice is that I get to do jobs that I love way more than I ever dreamed. Like when I was Mr. Megan Malalley and like doing a guest spot on the West Wing and I had a fledgling wood shop, I couldn't believe how my life had peaked I was like

fucking this is beyond my wildest dreams and then Parks and Rec happened and now whatever 16 years of way crazy just I mean so the jobs I get to do

acting jobs then I started touring as a humorist and I never dreamed I would play songs for audiences and then I started writing books. Yeah. And all of these things I love doing. It's so enjoyable. And so my vice is that I overload myself. I call it assholeing myself. Oh, yeah. That's a good one. I mean, and Megan especially, I'm sure that's Megan's least favorite thing about me is that I'm like, I already know how packed

things are into like the middle of next year. Yeah. But somebody will call and be like, what about this super fun thing in Scotland for we just need you for seven days yeah and I'm like well what am I gonna do say no you know that's and so that affects Megan the most but my family and my wood like everybody around me sure that's that's the thing they say to me where they're like yeah you you do too much stuff um who are you jealous of I'm jealous of uh George uh George Saunders and Jeff Tweedy spring to mind we have a wonderful three-way sort of bromance

and those two guys their prolific ability to just shit out gorgeous music and fiction and Jeff Tweety just released so many songs. A triple album? Yeah, a triple album. He, I mean, and he

sends, we, I'm very lucky like we have this beautiful friendship where he send stuff to me and george way early on like as he's putting it together it's it's wild because he was my favorite like it's he was like my john lennon yeah and then 20 years in i got to cast him in a in parks and rec in an episode i was directing yeah that's how i met my john lennon and now we're in love and we're married but so those guys when we do things together or you know right now we and Jeff also writes books.

George has a new novel coming out that's super exciting. So we're always sharing and loving on each other's stuff. And I'm so grateful. They're both a little older than me. So I feel like I'm being allowed to ride in the back of their transam.

And they're like, Nick, check out this eight track of Frank Zappa or whatever. And I'm like, and so I'm jealous of their prolific talents. What's something you believe 10 years ago that you don't believe? now.

Huh, that's a good question. I'm a very stubborn optimist. How did, where did you arrive at that? I don't know. I mean, when I interviewed Conan, the ending of that book, Gumpchin, I was talking to him about like, and this was like 2013 or 14 or something. And I asked him something about, you know, do you think the world's going to shit or all the kids are on their phones or whatever it was? And he said, you know, just take a step back.

Because Conan, you know, has done such a great job of disguising himself as like the literal valedictorian and like leading Harvard scholar. And he's like, no, I'm just a dorky, you know, puppet. He's the smartest. He's so amazing. And he said, take a step back historically and just look at civilization. It is getting so much better. Yes, it's slow. Yes, it's inexorable.

But it's still like an iceberg. It's not going to stop moving. I mean, and it's easy to think of when we were kids, things about like gay marriage or the legalization of weed or, you know, there are things. Yeah, certainly. That are powerfully progressive. World poverty is much less than it was in the 1980s when I was growing up, for example. Yeah. And so I have a hard time thinking.

I'm like, I haven't, I'm trying to think of something I've grown, like, cynical about or jaded. I guess, I guess, I know on. In the last few years, I think I used to think, you know, that our business could be, more merit-based than it is. Yeah. Like I thought, and I think I got spoiled by Mike Scher. Yeah. Working on Parks and Rec, people don't realize that Parks and Rec was almost always

canceled every year. It was not a hit show. That's so funny. And part of it was, it was right at the transition from the Nielsen ratings to everyone watching on a DVR or online. Okay. And they didn't have a way to track that yet. Right.

Because we were like, I think we're popular. Right. It seems like we're popular. It's critically acclaimed, but we weren't getting, we were completely ignored by, we never got nominated for awards. It was, it was weird. It was like, it seems like we might be everyone's favorite show. Right. Or definitely top, you know, we're in the top shows.

But we even got canceled one time. Amy, it was like the upfronts, she got on a plane from. New York, and they were like, it's over. Sorry. And when she landed in L.A., she called her agent or whatever, and they were like, it's not over. Oh, that's hilarious. Back on. So, but because of Mike Scher, and he makes these shows with such good heart. Yeah. He makes a show that's like an ethics in this day and age, which is pretty astonishing. I think I had this idea, because in the last few years, I've been involved in five show pitches with great teams of people. Everyone was a slam dog.

And every single one, and now these days you do, it's like this year, there are six companies making shows. Amazon, Apple, HBO, Hulu, Netflix, Peacock. That's it. You do those meetings. You pitch to those six people. And every one of them are like, this is great. You, you, this is amazing. Great idea.

And then. And that doesn't happen. And then you, on your way out, you're like, do you validate? And Olivia Coleman and Robert De Niro are coming in. And they're pitching a show. And all of you, they're like, we love you guys. Right. And.

Right. So it feels like it's hard to have optimism in entertainment at the current moment. Oh, it's crazy. The way that's, again, I'm speaking slightly out my ass because. because the companies are inscrutable by design. They're not telling you your numbers so that they don't have to pay you if you're a hit. Right, sure.

Like, you're doing fine. Yeah. Severance. Yeah, you're doing okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll keep you around. Yeah. But so you don't know anything.

So it seems like they're choosing things by algorithm or something where it's like, do I need a vampire? Do I need tits? Right. What, you know, what is it? what is a time where you were caught in a lie i mean that's that's something uh when i was a kid i I was a liar I have such good

I've such good mom and dad that that was my thing where I was like let me see I know you told me all I have to do is be honest and work hard and so let me I'm going to crunch these numbers

and so I was a liar and I was a thief I got arrested in college doing a joke with my friend we would try to steal something innocuous and in a Kmart in front of a security window they they took me and showed me what I they were like I was sitting at this desk eight feet from you watching you stuff eight Ronnie Millsap cassettes in the front of your jeans yeah walk out of the store and I was like and I was

you know they were like do you love Ronnie Millson and I was like no I mean though with all due respect to Ronnie it was it was a joke and so um So, I mean, it's something, that's something that I've had to learn because, and maybe it was part of my character that led me into acting. Yeah. So I've had to learn to like, I still am guilty of like, I will, I don't lie so much anymore, but I will definitely withhold information. Interesting. If I think a conversation is going to be confrontational or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

that makes sense I'll put maybe try and wait and vary the lead a little bit yeah yeah it's interesting it's almost like

you talk about the stealing the lying when you're younger it's almost like you it was a hard fought battle that you arrived at like a deep sense of integrity I listen when I got to college

I mean I you know my mom and dad who I'm very lucky they're still with us they uh they're incredible they um they have set an example for me and my siblings and we're all i love my three siblings like they're really smart and funny and we're all i think doing a damn good job of like taking a swing at aspiring to mom and dad yeah um using our gift to you know using our weirdness to help people one one sister's a powerful librarian one

One is an innovative school teacher and my brother works in craft beer brewing in sales. So he's the king of the family. But like there's the sensibility when I got to college and suddenly had this one day as a freshman in college, suddenly it hit me. I was like, I'm out in the world. I have to get my first checkbook. Like it's on me now. Yeah. Time to be an adult.

Yeah. And I went to a pay phone because it was 1988, and I called my dad. And I said, Dad, I'm really sorry for the last couple of years where I was bristling against him. And, like, I was just unpleasant in the ways a teenager can be of not liking myself and not knowing, not. When I got to theater school, it was the, and I was a good student, I made sure I got A's so that I did well in school, no, not knowing. where that was going but i didn't give a shit when i started theater school the whole curriculum it's like i found it yeah and me and my friend joe tied for the valedictorian of our department because we i just wanted to learn this i wanted to be the best at it and devour it you felt like you

found your home in a certain way yeah yeah and it called something click where i was like oh now time to be a man for the rest of my life and i called my dad and i said sorry for the you know for the in the ass I've been. And also just thank you. Yeah. You and mom, like, it's suddenly so clear to me, the things you've just quietly been repeating to me, my whole life, are the only tools I need. And I'm, you know, I'm still the mess in whatever ways I am.

Yeah. And I'm still doing my best, but I've done, I've had a lot of success, like just taking their lessons and turning that into, you know. Yeah. It was because of their lessons that I stuck with carpentry. There was a time when I got to L.A. That going to commercial auditions and behaving like the rest of my actor friends from Chicago was clearly fruitless to move.

I was like, you spend a whole day doing two commercial auditions. And I wrote about this one of my first book. It was crazy. In brief, in this big cattle call for a Budweiser audition was, among other recognizable faces the guy that played ogre in Revenge of the Nerds and the guy that played carmine on laverne and shrew in a room of like 80 dudes yeah yeah and i was like what the fuck am i doing like and all of us are buying a lottery ticket to see whose funny face they make yeah when a home run is coming for your bud wiser that's the spot and i was like i went out and called my agent was like

i'm going to just be a carpenter yeah and then like try to get acting joneser Yeah. And things like that, like, I mean, I truly think just sticking to my woodworking made my acting career. Yeah, that makes sense. Crazily. And that all came from my mom and dad's sense of work ethic. Yeah, that's interesting. And it's also, yeah, it's work ethic.

It's also, I always say this to aspiring comedians, actors, filmmakers is it's endurance. The people who I see around me who've stuck around. you know, through their 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, and beyond, people who've stuck around. They figure out how to keep going. It's the people who stop, who fall away. One of my best friends who started my wood shop with me, this beautiful actor named Martin McClendon.

We went to theater school together. It's one of the best actors I've ever known. And he's also a really talented scene designer. And we love doing all these things together. he had a wife um and we were together in l.A and that's just it i was willing to just eat more shit uh and and he was he was living um you know his choices he got married before you know he he had a household to take care of and they were about to have their first baby and i was still willing to live like a bachelor and get a couple months behind on my rent

to live in a way that that I felt shameful about I was like I can take a certain amount of this to endure to stick around and at some point he was like you know what this doesn't feel

grown up this doesn't feel responsible that makes total sense and I had friends like that too I'm moving back to any he moved home and immediately started running a theater department at a college yeah yeah and has a couple kids a very responsible job

I mean yeah he's like a total American hero and I was was like I totally get it and I cried my eyes out when he left he was a huge part of my my life then and and I was like I totally get it I'm I'm willing to yeah I'm willing to still be a bit of a dip shit yeah 28 29 and also even if you do have endurance also it doesn't work right sometimes you know what it's like for the most part that that's why and that's why it's such a it's such a gamble it really is Nick Offerman, thanks for being here.

This is so fun. Oh, thank you so much. And congrats on your book and your movie and everything else you're doing. I, you are sharing your gift with the world, and I appreciate it being part of that world. Wow. I'm very grateful. I love, you know, it's funny. I have been such a fan of what you do.

And even though we're no longer in our 30s, I still, I think we're doing well because I still feel like we're kids. Yeah. Still getting to hang around the clubhouse. Yeah, yeah, totally. And so this is part of it. So thank you for having me.

Thanks, Nick. Working it out because it's not done. We're working it out because there's no. That'll do it for another episode of Working It Out. Nick would like to highlight a nonprofit for working out for a cause called Girls Garage. Girls Garage is a non-profit design and construction school for girls and gender expansive youth age 9 through 18.

It was founded in 2013. Girls Garage is the first ever design and building workshop for female, non-binary, and gender expansive youth in the United States. You can donate to them at girlsgourage.org. You can follow Nick Offerman on Instagram at Nick Offerman. Pick up his book, Little Woodchucks at your local book search. Really, really good. His movie Sovereign, which is also really good, is available on video and demand.

You can watch the full video of this episode on our YouTube channel at Mike Barbiglia. Great visuals on Nick Offerman's mustache. But, man, him going over the table is absurd. He inspects it. He critiques it. Subscribe over at YouTube and watch Nick Offerman's mustache. Check upberbigs.com to sign it for the mailing list to be the first to know about my upcoming shows. And get the text messages.

Put your phone number in so it doesn't go to spam. about the New York City pop-up show. We're doing jokes and poems in November, me and Jenny. Our producers of working it out are myself, along with Peter Salomon, Joseph, Berbiglia, Mabel, Lewis, and Gary Simons. Sound mixed by Shub Sarin, Supervising Engineer, Kate Bolinsky. Special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers, the band, further music.

Special thanks to my wife, the poet, J. Hope Stein, and our daughter, Una, who built the original Radio Fort made of pillows. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. If you enjoy this podcast, please rate us and review us. on Apple Podcasts. It helps us so much. People recently said they love the premium episode. They recently said they love the episode with

Jenny Slate. We have 100, almost 190 episodes, all free, no paywall. Check them out. Tell your friends, tell your enemies, tell your local carpenter or woodworker. You can say, hey, I know something good to listen to you in your workshop. Mike Brubigley

is working it out. It's a podcast where Mike Brubigley talks to other creatives about the creative process. He talks to comedians. actors, authors, even a woodworker. His name is Nick Offerman, and he occasionally does some acting. Thanks, everybody. We're working it out. We'll see you next time.