Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 193. Vir Das Returns: How to Find Your Voice, Literally

Episode Date: November 24, 2025

The last time comedian Vir Das was on Working It Out, he and Mike discussed the intense reaction to a piece he performed called “Two Indias.” Now Vir returns to share how he moved on from the controversy, and all the ups and downs he’s experienced since then, including: literally losing his voice just weeks before sold out shows in Mumbai, writing a memoir, and making an independent film. Plus, Mike and Vir dive into the two different shows Vir is currently performing, and Vir explains why Mike’s name belongs in a Bollywood musical.Please consider donating to Yoda - Youth Organization in Defense of Animals Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

I have to tell you this. I don't know why. So you are always my last stop in the U.S. In terms of... Last time I went to the airport from here and this time I'm going to the airport from here. Oh, wow. And there's like a Bollywood song

which goes like, Bar Bar Bar Barha, intasarha, right? And for some reason, your name has enough vowels to be a Hindi phrase. Sure. Right? So I knew what's coming here.

So for 72 hours, I was just from walking and going, Mike Pabaglia, Mike Pabaglia. I've done that 50 times for no reason over the last three days. Mike Pabaglia, Mike Pabaglia. That's your new...

That's going to be every Indian comment. You've got to send me that song. I will send you that song. I'll play that on guitar. Mike Pabiglia, Mike Pabiglia. That is the voice of the great Viglia. We're so happy to have Veerr's back on the podcast. If you haven't heard our first episode, it's from 2023,

but he's a great comic, fascinating comic, fascinating actor. He's done a bunch of Bollywood movies. He has a new bookout called The Outsider, a Memoir for Misfits. We talk a lot about that today. By the way, thanks everyone who came out to our Jokes and Poems show last week in New York City. That is a show that I do with my wife, the poet, Jay Hope Stein. They sell out pretty quickly. there's only about 160 seats.

And so we notify our text mailing list first. So if you want to be on that mailing list, text Burbigs, B-I-R-B-I-G-S to 911-4-4-7-1-5-0, and then you'll be notified about the next New York City show. You will also be notified about me appearing in a Broadway show called All-Out from January 13 through 18 alongside Cessley Strong and Wayne Brady. All-Out is, of course, written by the great Simon Rich. who's written for S&L and the New Yorker and many books. It's a follow-up to All In, which was last year on Broadway with John Mullaney, Nick Kroll, and Fred Armerson, all these great folks. I'm thrilled to be a part of it.

You can get tickets at all-outbroadway.com. Thanks to everyone who has signed up for working it out premium on Apple Podcasts. We really appreciate it. This week for Thanksgiving, we're releasing a bonus episode where I punch up listeners' jokes, your jokes. We punch up, I think, about 10 jokes. It's me and Pete Holmes. Together, as a team, punching up your jokes. You can subscribe for that on Apple Podcasts

to get the bonus episode this week. We really appreciate the support. This is a great conversation with the great Veer Das. He's had a fascinating life. We talk about his career as a Bollywood movie star. We talk about what it was like for him growing up in Lagos, Nigeria. And we talk about jokes. We work out jokes.

It was a really fun episode. I think you're going to love it and join my conversation with the great Veerdas. In your special, you show like a split second of a camera down your esophagus, I think, because you lost your voice.

More than lost my voice, I had cysts. Yeah. So, yes, that was a trip. Oh, my God. Yeah. And so you lost, yeah, you lost your voice. You had cysts. And so they took them out? No.

So we're doing this special, and we sell out the venue six weeks before we film. And that morning I woke up with cysts. Wow. And, yeah, the... So you went to an E&T doctor? Yeah, I was in London. And I get taken to the guy. Yeah, yeah, sure.

You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're a big star. You get the guy. And the guy's like, all right, six months. And I'm like, fuck you. Six months is like vocal rest, six months? No, but six months did you have a quality voice again?

Wow. And then I got taken to Adele's speech therapist. And she was like, I'll get you back on stage in seven weeks. And now you sound like Adele. Now I sound like Adele. I was wondering why you sound like Adele. No, I had almost identical. I recognized that exam that you had where they stick the thing down your throat.

because I think it's hard being someone who speaks for a living. You don't think of yourself as a vocalist. And you go, no, you are a vocalist, just a different type of vocalist. The amount of notes I got for that stupid thing, I wanted to put that up. And then we just got like five emails saying, it doesn't look like a throat. Oh, really? That's funny. Is this a picture of your asshole?

What are we looking at over you? So we had to add the correct amount of blur. So that it looked. Oh. So it wouldn't trigger anyone. Right. And, you know. And of course, throats and assholes.

They're of the same. Yeah. They're of the same DNA. It's the same tube, right? Depending on what time you show up in the doctor. Yeah, yeah. It's not. People are being nitpicky, but in fact, same creator.

Yeah. There you go. If you believe in that kind of thing. Man, you've been a great special and came out with a great book. Thank you. It's funny. like when you write a book, I feel like you're combing over parts of your life where you go like, oh, when I did it, I forgot that even happened.

Yeah. Did you have anything with that where you were kind of shocked by your own memory of something? For sure. Firstly, I'm not writing a book again for a damn long time. Yeah. Like, nobody tells you writing a book is writing it seven times. Yes. You know, it really is a lot.

What do you mean by that? What do you mean by writing a seven times? Well, you, I did the first draft, and then there was notes, and then I changed, I threw out four chapters in my book and said, none of this belongs in here. Sure. And then redid it completely after a year into it, because life changed over the year. But I discovered, and it's something to work on, I have very few childhood memories before nine. Oh. So I was like, I remember everything after nine.

Yeah. And so I'm struggling. There's this Africa chapter in my book because I grew up in Africa. Yeah. And I'm like, I have to fill this with something. Because I can't skip, you know, just I can't skip one through nine. Right. And I'm like, I really have nothing.

Yeah. I just have these flashes. And so in the book, the chapter kind of addresses it and says, I don't know why. But I just have flashes and here are eight flashes from Africa. Yeah, that's interesting. I try to do similar thing. Like, it's two of my favorite memoirists are like Mary Carr and David Sedaris. I feel like they do a good job of leading the reader through the experience of the memory,

which is what you're describing. Because I think sometimes it's disingenuous to treat it like you have all the footage in your brain. You remember the first day of kindergarten? You remember the last day of 10th grade. It's like, no, you don't. And it's also, I think what you remember is strangely, sensory you know like I remember

in Lagos, Nigeria we had a house and then there was a 20 foot wall and there was a guard at the gate because it wasn't safe this is 1989 1991 wow right

and there's political turmoil in Lagos and I remember there was a street nearby called Queens Drive right so when my parents would work I'd sneak out and kind of get by the guard at the gate like chuck my bicycle over the wall

climb the wall and cycle out to Queens Drive which is where like the rich people lived and it overlooked this lagoon and I get in the water sometimes you know and I remember it was about 3.30pm I can tell you exactly

what that golden light looked like on the water at 3.30pm and I can tell you the smell of whatever that plant was that floats on the top of the lagoon yeah I can't tell you much else you know what I'm like that that's all I know totally so

it's that's a real quandary though when you're writing a book or a memoir of stand-of-comedy like I have so many things like that where you remember something yeah but it is it sure as hell isn't a story

and I also think people want to feel spoken to even in a comics memoir I don't feel like they want to be written at and sometimes I'll read like a comedian's memoir and it's either very close to material and it feels like transcribed material or it feels really like let me show you how amazing I am as a how great my vocabulary is and I'm like I really kind of

want them to hear me in their head yeah when they read this as if it was this you know was there anything where you were writing the book and you go you're cringing at your own memory of something I mean, Mike, the whole book is cringe. You know what I mean? The whole book is, for some reason, I've seen the world more than anyone I know. Yeah, India, Africa, America, London. London, three world tours. And for some reason, I've been let into more worlds than I expected.

Like, if it's rock music or Bollywood or here or anything. So I'm kind of like the loser at the party who's like, how the fuck am I here? You know, and should I talk to people? And is this the right shirt? And I was like, we both have representation here. So you get the call saying, it's time. Because comedians write their first book kind of where we are. Right, right.

It's time to write you the book. It's time to write the book, right? And I was like, I'll write it if you let me write it about failure and if you let me write it about confusion. Uh-huh. And so that's the arc of the book. It's called the outsider for that reason. Yeah.

You know, because I think that's a broader feeling. So you're going to India right now. You're flying to India this week, doing shows. I have to tell you this. I don't know why. So you are always my last stop in the U.S. Last time I was saying? Last time I went to the airport from here,

and this time I'm going to the airport from here. And there's like a Bollywood song which goes like, bar bar, ha, intasarha. Right. And for some reason, your name has enough vowels to be a Hindi phrase. Sure. Right. So I knew it was coming here. So for 72 hours, I was just from walking and going, Mike Pabaglia, Mike Pabaglia. I've done that 50 times for no reason over the last three days. Mike Pabaglia, Mike Pabaglia. That's your new. That's going to be every Indian comment. You've got to send me that song. I will send you that.

I'll play that on guitar. Mike Babigley, yeah, Mike Babigley, yeah. It's so interesting. Can you say what the show is? Oh, yeah, sure, sure, sure. So I'm doing two different live shows, right? And one is called the Sounds of India. And it's every sound that you'll hear from 3.45 in the morning,

which is a bird called the coil to 3.44 in the morning when you go back to bed. Yeah. And so it's everything from. rickshas passing by to politicians thumping their desks in parliament to school kids singing in assembly at 8 o'clock in the morning to the guy selling something outside

your house to the evening news to the sound of a cricket bat to we have mosquitoes that come out of 5.30 is mosquito time in India and we have these rackets that you wave at a mosquito and you can murder them and that has a particular

like when a mosquito pops in an electrified racket there's a sound to it that every Indian knows so it's it's kind of like stand up meets tech a little bit where it's it's very rapid fire and it's 80 sounds so it's really bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang on to something else and i try to do the thing of um here's what it is and here's how i feel about it so at least it gives you some of me i love that you know it's an interesting way in yeah because like sometimes on this show we'll ask people what's a smell you remember from But, like, what's a sound is a good one?

Any of the sensory things that honestly, like, you don't think about. Are a great, just an entry point. Yeah. And it's also, I was like, I want this to feel like a concert. I really do. And so we went all out. Like, we have a, my set is a tree. Yeah.

And the tree just has cans. You know, like, remember, like, you had a can and I had a can and there was a string in between them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we'd hear each other. Yeah. So it's just. Like a tomato can.

Like a tomato. It literally looks like steel cans and they hang from this tree and every time I play a sound one of them lights up like it's come from somewhere in India. That's beautiful. And we give the audience wristbands that have light in them

and that vibrate. So when I play a sound it kind of... Oh my God. You know, vibrates through the room. Beautiful. You know, so you feel immersed, right? So I wrote that and then I just did a two week run at the at the lincoln center oh great at the claire tao and uh that's a show called hey stranger

which is like a like the book like the book it's very much my story and uh like a one-man show kind of a thing so it's a trip kind of going from because i just did 18 shows at the lincoln center and like adjusting from that and now the concert that's so hard is uh it's fun though it's fun yeah Yeah, but yeah, holding, I guess what I mean is holding two shows in your head at the same time is a little bit of overload probably. Well, I had, I mean, I got to give you flowers, man. Like, I remember coming and seeing you at the Vivian Beaumont. Yeah. And we hung out backstage for really, but I think that deeply had an impact on me.

You know, when I was like, like, old man in the pool was a fantastic show. Oh, thanks. And I kind of went away from that saying, would my story work in a room like this? Like if I sat down and authentically told my story because that really would be a litmus test if Indian comedy is, can translate over to just a random person who showed up

at the Lincoln Center for an off-Broadway show. And so I have a director for the first time and I never worked with a director, a guy called Moritz. And so I just spent 18 nights developing it with him. Oh, that's great. And I'd never been through that process, you know, so I learned a lot. What do you like most about telling stories? I like that somehow it doesn't, this is foo-foo, but it doesn't live in you anymore.

And then it goes into somebody else and it kind of becomes theirs. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. And strangely enough, it's. It's kind of their version of the story and how they saw it. I'm fascinated by how different stories are perceived. Yeah, because you, before you were a stand-up, you were like a Bollywood star. Yeah.

And star is middling at the best. Okay. I want to manage the expectations. Sure. I've been in 14 Bollywood movies, which is like two good movies or three good movies. Okay, sure. What was the worst movie you were ever in? Can you say?

Oh, yeah, sure. I was in a movie called Mastisad. which was just like this cringy sex comedy. Yeah. And it was very like, I mean, when was American Pie? It was like the early 2000s. Sure. Yeah, but you don't do that shit in 2018 or 2015, right?

So we were doing that. Yes. And just kind of regressive. And the audience is like, he's doing this for the cash. Oh, interesting. And I think the thing with stand-ups is we have the curse of authenticity. We don't get to be an authentic. authentic because 100% true you know because the audience would be like you you wouldn't watch this

shit why would I pay to watch this shit yeah I've seen your stand up yep so very much I think that's what happened with that and it is a massive movie like did well but yeah um you know well it's funny like you and I have this thing in common you talk about it in your book which is like we feel like your book is called outsider but you've always felt like an outsider but at the comedy seller, you do feel like it's a bit of a family. I've the exact same thing. I've always felt like an outsider. What is it about that place? Tell me what you think it is.

I think it's because it's Esty and Liz, for sure, but I do think it's that they won't talk to management and that they don't post the lineup and the only way to get in there is through other comedians. Oh, interesting. I think the entry... Right, in other words,

they don't talk to your agent or your manager or anyone in show business. And they don't care how famous you are. They don't care how many Netflix specials you've had. They don't care about any of that. That's a really good point. Do two seller comics think you're funny? Yeah.

And then you're in. Like, I auditioned at the seller after three Netflix specials. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? And it was happy too, but that's kind of nice. It's interesting, too, because they really love international comics, too. They do? And I think part of it is that the shows have.

an international audience it's very diverse the people coming in it's a genuine it's an act the comedy seller and this happened in the 20 years i've been there 25 years i've been there it went from being a great comedy club to being like an international new york city destination yeah it's yeah it's a tourist spot uh in that sense as well like you you you want to go see the cellar yeah you know but i don't know are you comfortable bombing at the cellar yet like with new shit nope same i want to get up and i want to kill you know and there's other rooms there i'll be okay kind of being like what's next what is this i will do new jokes but it will only be in the middle of my set interesting which is to say i open with something that works i close with something that works

and then in the middle i'll try out you know like one of these cards on the walls like a few a few things but i find that when you try out new stuff there's an energy to it yeah that surges the whole set. So even if the bit isn't even that strong, it's spontaneous. Do you call out that you're trying new stuff? Usually I do. Usually, like, I'll hold up cards.

Yeah, same. Which is a trick I got from Jimmy Carr. Yeah. With me, it's less easy because they don't know who I am. Right. Do you know me at the cello? Sure. So if like a famous guy walks up and he's like,

all right, here's my good stuff and here's my new stuff, they're like, oh my God, we're going to see this guy we knows new stuff. Yeah, yeah. But if like a random Indian dude walks up and he's like, here's my new stuff, guys. They're like, yo, you are new stuff. You are new stuff. What are we doing?

Yeah, totally. You know, so I get less leeway with that. It's also, I think there's something to be said. I don't know how this carries over into other fields. I don't want this to be such a closed off inside comedy conversation. But it's like, there's something about being around other comics. Yeah. Where there's something calming about it.

Yeah. I can't even put my finger on it. If I had to guess, it's one or three things that at any given point, your life experience probably isn't the shittiest at the table. Yeah, true. You know, like whatever your, whatever shitty gig you just got off of, someone had a worse road story than you did. That's right.

This week. At that table of five people. Yeah, yeah. 100% true you know it's probably that's a that's a i think that's one of the things you know um i think we're lonely people i think comedians are inherently people number two inherently lonely people so just kind of uh it's it's interesting why do you think that's true why do you think comics are lonely people well because we spend so much of our life alone and and if we're we're not fully present in a situation we are kind of sponging a situation so that we can

right about it yeah you know but i like being with comics because it's it's interaction without social graces you know what i mean like yes agreed a 45 second silence is fine yeah you know like there's a comedian at the cello called nimesh patel yeah and great comic great comic right and i was at the improv in l-a and he's like let's go hang out and we went and hung out and didn't really talk at all That's great. We just got some vodka and some beer and just ate nachos and really didn't talk for 55 minutes. And then we're like, this was great. Let's do it again.

At one point in your book, you said that your wife wanted a divorce at one point. And then the pandemic happened. And then your dog died. And you had a bunch of things that were really challenging. Yeah. and you found yourself back together. But now that your dog has died and the pandemic is over, what do you think brought you back together

in a way that feels enduring? I think we... I mean, the context to it is I signed this American TV show called Whiskey Cavalier in Prague, right? And it was... I was just living in Prague for six months. Now, there's two parts to that. A, your wife is lonely, your dog is sick.

You don't want to move your family to Prague because you don't know if this thing is going to go. You know, Prague is great for four days if you like chimney cake and then it's done. But it's minus whatever, 900 degrees. They're filming a lot of stuff right there. Right? It's great, right?

So I didn't know if it was going to go. So we're doing the long distance and, you know, it's that weird sixth year of, you know, fifth, sixth year of the marriage, you kind of start to. Famous era, seven years. edge? Yeah, right? So, so you're in that.

The dog got really sick. And then the pandemic happened. I'd come back. And we found ourselves moving to this little town called Goa, outside of Mumbai. And suddenly we had like fresh air. You know, we had a garden. And we had a dog that we both clearly knew was going to go. And he had a year left.

A year and a half at max, right? So now you were carrying him everywhere. you know you're nebulizing him four times a day you're doing the thing yeah you know and it's forcing you to be kind and so you're in a house where you're talking a little bit gently you know and you uh your achievements that you measure each other by uh hey he he ate today you did a good job you know i'll take the night shift you're just cooperating all of a sudden but your tone softens everything your approach softens and um i really think he brought us back together like he was that that was his his final symphony you know that's really pretty i

i wasn't around for his passing and i think that's um that's something i carry you know yeah i was told that he went around the house looking for me oh god as he passed right so I'm strangely not looking forward to death, but not afraid of death. Yeah. Because I feel like I'll see him first. And I owe him an apology, you know, when that happens. But, I mean, we went through that too, you know, where she had to deal with that. I was locked down on a Jarapita movie in London and you couldn't leave.

It was that two-week quarantine. Right. And I remember that, the bubble. The bubble, right? and so I would have flown from anywhere in the world to be there for that but I had to watch it on on a FaceTime call

I would not wish that on anybody my worst enemy in the world I would not wish that on but it forced her to be so compassionate with me in that and me to be so compassionate with her and then you kind of come out of that going

look at what we went through like this is insane and you're amazing and thank you. you you know i had that i had that with our years ago our cat massey died and and she was sick for months and then i had to go for a gig and it was like the fine it was the final days it was devastating yeah it is you know and but weirdly there's this dog who lived out on the street right and the street called him stupid. And that was just his name.

His name was stupid. Oh, his name was stupid. And a week later, he wandered into our house. Yeah. He was sitting at the door. Yeah. In the garden. And he'd always be at the gate kind of looking, you know, almost in like a, is he dead yet?

You know, kind of a thing. But one day he never left the house. And then three weeks later, he brought a friend. And this is this dog called. Lucy who was abandoned during the pandemic by a family that live, you know, they went home. I think they were in Europe and they just kind of fled during lockdown and they kind of left her in that house. So she'd been on the street.

And she came in and the second she figured out she was safe, she slept for four days. Oh, wow. And we moved out of Goa after four years. They're both our dogs now. So they both moved to Mumbai with us. So the journey of watching two street dogs become home dogs is just a gigantic privilege. Stupid and Lucy. Stupid and Lucy.

It's been great. They didn't know what a bed was. Stupid isn't ever had a bed. First toy. First, you know, dog park, you know, et cetera, et cetera. So it's been nice. Oh, that's sweet. Yeah.

You talk about writing in your journal, but you can't read. I can't read a word. This is crazy. You have to talk me through this. You can't read your own journal. I can't read my own journal. Can you explain this? It's, uh, it's, some would call it journaling.

I call it regurgitation. It's, I'm just vomiting in the morning. That's literally it. I can't read a word. So it's for the, it's funny, because I literally, I recommend an equivalent to this to people all the time, which is, you know write something yeah you know it's the beginning of writing something great is writing something yeah that's probably bad yeah but in your case it's all bad and it's not even really something you're going to read it's not even writing mike you know if you think about it does it

exist still is it like so you have the notebooks yeah and and i've i've hundreds of notebooks wow but it is literally to say I woke up with this in me and now it's not and then if I know it's going to be something if I know it's going to be you know stand up et cetera I'll type it out but right it's almost like you're writing it

as an exercise and then if you feel like oh this is something you know what I do with my notebook is I write my journal I know it's junk I assume it's junk and then if something all of a sudden feels like that's something I just circle it I put a star and then I kind of write it in something else. It's a good, that's a good practice, I think.

You do it every day? Every single day. So I, my flow state is like 7 a.m. 6.37 a.m. Wow. And so I need to, I dream pretty cinematically and pretty vividly. So I like to get up, not really talk to anyone and go into a room and write. and give me 90 minutes to two hours and I'll come out and we'll have breakfast

and we'll do everything. But so my wife, Shivani, is great about that. I literally wake up and go into a room. No kidding. And don't come out for two hours. You were going to, in your final chapter, you talk about making the proof of concept of your movie Happy Patel.

Yeah. And that you initially were going to shoot on an iPhone with no lighting or production, but your friend convinced you to actually produce it. Have you done, sort of like iPhone type shoots before like low production value shoots I actually always recommend that to people

for sure I have but I kind of jumped a few steps I mean you've directed like two movies and it's the best thing in the world and I'm writing my next one right now touch wood you know but like I remember it's the only thing that feels close to stand up that's interesting I think it's very similar to stand up I think films are very similar to stand-up.

In stand-up, you get to infect every second of it with your madness and every part of it with your madness. Yeah. And only a director gets to do that on a film. Mm-hmm. Is costumes, lighting, short... You infect everything with your madness, whatever is in your head. But for me, I directed two specials of mine.

And I've kind of been around on movie sets enough where I understood how to move a camera I understood kind of what constituted good you know good framing etc and my specials ended up looking

a little more cinematic than you know other specials that were around at the time and so I was like okay let me try doing a short film

I made a short film never put it out but just kind of did it for myself and then my producer on this movie is a guy called Amir Khan who's a Tom Cruise

Brad Pitt level star and in India we do something called a narration and it's a great thing where if I want you Mike to produce my movie I will come and perform the movie for you and you're living in the book it's a fascinating idea so it's a single man table read I will do every character and stage direction

how long the whole movie so it's three hours or whatever with the lunch break or whatever the whole thing yeah so I mean my script was 101 pages so that's 101 minutes effectively and that's how they read the script did you grow up on

Bollywood movies or American movies it's a mix because we were in Africa right so we got Bollywood cassettes and then laser discs and DVDs etc etc but then in Africa we got Botswana TV which was Richard Pryor

Sanford and Sons Fresh Prince of Ballet so it was literally kind of the brown experience and the black experience and that was kind of what I grew up on. My first exposure to stand up is prior. Oh, so like live at the Sunset's Trip and live and all that.

Wow, that's a great, that's probably the best you can do. Yeah, yeah, that's my inn. He's held up more than almost anybody. Colin, I think Colin is still getting quoted by both sides. Like the left and the right or like he's a guy. Yeah, yeah, totally. Which is nuts. But yeah, yeah, because he was nobody's guy.

he's nobody's guy you know the interesting thing about carlin is is that uh if you watch that documentary you see the documentary a judge documentary yes is really good one of the things i find really interesting about it in relation to the current conversation of like you can't say anything anymore it's like carlin also couldn't say anything except it was pre-internet yeah so like they would get letters to every theater he was at going this is offensive to Christians. This is offensive to Americans or whatever. And they just didn't cancel him. He didn't cancel his appearances. I think with, yeah, but I do think back then a comedian had more power to not take feedback and just kind of be like, here's my jokes. Good night. Next city.

Right. And now you have to, you kind of have to honor your audience's voice, you know, and the fact that it's as powerful as yours in some way. And maybe not take the note, you know. Right, right, right. The notes are out there. The notes are out there. The notes are available. People have a lot of takes.

But appreciate that they have feedback and something to say. Did you have any pushback on the recent Netflix special? No, not so much. Because there's nothing I could flag in it where I would go, I would be concerned. Because you did be previously. Last time you were on this podcast, we talked about that. Yeah, that was very controversial. Yeah, I remember watching like a clip.

of it back then, and I was like, I look kind of sad in that one. I would be more cheerful on my school. Well, you had a whole thing where it was like, there was a lawsuit against you in India. I mean, there's a lot of lawsuits. I mean, that's wild. Yeah, it was, but process is punishment. You know, that's all I say is there were 14 police complaints and those didn't get honored into investigations, but I had to, there's legal fees, you know, that come

with that. And also probably an extraordinary amount of anxiety and fear. And eventually love. And eventually, to be honest, ticket sales. And eventually, you know, it all kind of... Controversy does lead to ticket sales. One time. One time. Yeah, yeah, exactly. You can't hit them over and over again. I know. I know a lot of comics who are like, what can I say next? You know what I mean? And, you know, that's not currency. I don't think. One of the things I really like about your special is you, I feel like you effectively use silence. Yeah, I do. And, like, very few people do. Very few comics do. And did you have to learn that? Or was that sort of your natural rhythm when you started?

I'm figuring it out. You know, I'm still mid-craft. So I don't know. Sure. But I grew up with the, with an old man, my grandfather. You know, I was, I lived with him when he was 12 years. when I was 12 years old. And so this is a guy who is a diplomat received the Padma Shri, which is kind of like our Medal of Honor, Indian ambassador to Bhutan, a Buddhist leader.

And so strangers in our house constantly waiting for his counsel to chant with him. Oh, wow. Right? And so that was my guy during puberty. Right. To go to for advice.

So advice meant a story. Yeah. Right. And the most powerful thing I saw him do was access a story in memory rather than tell you a story. Yeah. So if I'm like, Baba, what do I do about this? He'd be like, you know this one time? And then he'd go back and he'd remember.

Yeah. And he'd be okay taking the time to remember. Yeah. You know? And you just sat there. Yeah. You know, mouth open, captive, waiting for what was going to come out of his mouth. Yeah.

And till date, I've had that, which is stories are not told. They are remembered. And then you just come out of your mouth. You know, and that's powerful storytelling. Yeah. So to me, I'm comfortable, as long as I'm remembering something. I'm accessing some sort of memory or emotion, I'll sit in a silence. That's really interesting.

But I can't manipulate you with the silence, I don't think. I'm not there. Yeah, it's interesting you should say that because I've, recently been going back out on tour and I don't have an hour. And so I'm telling stories from my specials through the years. It's like six or seven specials. And so it's a lot of things to choose from. And I do find that the exact thing you're saying is true, which is if it's good enough to remember, it's a good story. Yeah. But sometimes I look back at my old side. I go, I just don't remember that.

You know what I mean? And it's just, there's just not that much there. And sometimes you, I think you're tempted to add funny to the story. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? When I'm like, at least on this Lincoln Center journey, I learned that, which is, yeah, if nothing funny happened for the last 28 seconds of that story, don't try and put something in there.

Yeah. You know, just see what happens. Make sure there's a laugh around the corner. But if nothing funny happened, towards the end of that story, you know, you know, I'm not going to that story. Just see how you felt about it. I completely agree. Like, I was listening to my old albums and I was like, if I were writing this now, I wouldn't have that 20 seconds or that 15 seconds because there's something about it that feels desperate. Yeah. Like, that line feels desperate versus what's essential for this story. Yeah, but I mean, I'm learning that. Like,

what's essential for the story is another, you know, just kind of, that's a journey as well. yeah it is just to stay authentic to okay here's what happened here's how i felt about it and this is why it's funny um what do you think having just done a storytelling show what do you think are the ingredients of a great story i think it has to be remembered i think that's one let's let's put that on the table um it has to have advanced you and if it hasn't i don't think it's it's worth telling that's a great way of thinking about it if you want the same If you were the same at the end of the story as you were before the story, don't tell the goddamn story.

Yep. You know, so I think that's incredibly important. And if it didn't introduce you to another human being and kind of who they were and how they feel, I don't think it's a valuable story either. Yeah, I think, like, one of the things I've learned through the years is when you're telling personal stories on stage, you're the protagonist of the movie. Yeah. And if you're imagining this being a movie,

the protagonist better be pretty interesting. And have, like you're saying, have a journey and be different at the end of the story than they were at the beginning of the story. But also what makes the protagonist interesting is who's listening to the protagonist in the story. You know, so I would tell a lot of stories where I'm like, then I met this guy and then we did this thing, et cetera. but what makes it interesting is how this guy felt about me and my perception of that

and the weird way he looked at me or this little wisdom he gave me and so like to me that's what makes the scene pop. Yeah, and the thing I've learned through the years is the most important. Everyone always says the most important thing is the beginning and middle and end. I always say it's the end. I don't have an end yet on this show.

I'm still searching. Oh, really? Yeah, I did like, 16 nights, and like, by, you know, God was kind, by like night eight, I was getting a standing ovation, et cetera. So, you know, they were starting to feel like there was some emotional beat to the end. Something was happening. Something was happening. Maybe that it was outside of yourself that you don't even fully get. I don't know. And at least they were, they were starting to get to their feet pretty quick or quicker every single night. Yeah. In my movie version in my head of this show,

you know, it ends with me looking at my wife going, did I ever tell you this one time? And the camera kind of tracks out of a window and goes to, you know, a shot of trees, et cetera, et cetera. That's hard to do in a stand-up show. You know what I mean? The pull-away shot down the street. But that's the beat I'm trying to search.

That's what you're trying to find. I'm trying to find that. Yeah, like the zoom out. Yeah. The zoom out of your story. This is what we call the slow round. Who are you jealous of? I'm jealous of any good musician.

I really feel like if I could do that, man, I'd quit this whole thing. I'd quit the acting, I'd quit in a heartbeat if I was just good at that. That's the cliche. comedians want to be musicians, musicians want to be comedians. I saw this reel today of this girl who's combining like Punjabi folk music with badass jazz, right? And new musician, whatever, 4 million views overnight, etc., etc. But she does this thing where she just kind of has like a growl in her voice

and she just kind of goes, yeah, and just kind of does a little bop. And I was like, I will never know what it feels like to be. Just that cool. Yeah. You know what I mean? Just that out there. Yeah. I think musicians know who they are more than perhaps any other artist.

Yeah, that's a good one. What is the best piece of advice someone's giving you that you used? This has always been a hard one because there's a lot of it. But I think someone said to me, you won't know when. it's good you'll only know when it's bad so make sure to look around a lot beautiful so that when it's good if you've looked around you're just kind of have that

memory like I was I was talking to an old friend of mine a college friend and I was like I feel like I've done a lot and I've just kind of left the next morning you know and she said you know she's like you won't know when it's good nobody knows it's good when it's good

so just try and look around a lot just on a daily basis so that there's memories. Like I remember telling her I played Carnegie and I have very little recollection of what that was like and I don't know if I'll do it again

or if I'll get to do it again. That was a big moment for somebody coming from India. And she was like, well, what do you remember seeing? And I was like, I remember seeing, well, I remember three things.

One, they were like, you can't change the lighting and you can't change the lighting. And you can't change. changed the stage we are carnegie hall i was like great respect uh and they were like we start on time we are carnegie hall and i was like about that i'm indian all right and uh you probably won't start on time this is just a cultural thing okay and they were like but we are carnegie hall and i was like yes but again humbly your fans might not show up on time i'm indian right

and uh we we had an 8 p.m show and then very sweetly at 801 they came into my room they're like we're going to wait 15 Yeah, sure Right But my friend She was like What do you remember About that evening

Uh huh And I said I remember Looking out into the room And knowing that This was 80% of these people It was their first time

In that room And she's like Then that's your memory So you don't remember What the green room looked like You don't remember What the flyer look like or the piano look like,

et cetera, et cetera. But you remember a feeling in the room which is, shit, we're all in Carnegie Hall. Yeah, yeah. You brought them there. Oh, they showed up for me, but I may never come back to that room

and they may never come back to that. They brought you, you brought them. You know? And she was like, you need to look around in your life more. Because that was a good moment. Yeah. And thank God you noticed that.

But just look around. Great advice. Do you have anything in your note? book? I made a note of two things. One, which is, it's just life story stuff, but it's really, really early stuff. Yeah. But I have, I grew up in Lagos, Nigeria with a 20-foot wall and a guard at the gate

with an AK-47, who's your only friend, right? But it's hard to know if it's a real friendship when there's an AK-47. That's great. In the mix. Yeah, yeah, sure. And then I had childhood games change when you add in the AK-47. Yeah. And so the three tags, you ever play tag within AK-47?

It's really just a one-round game. Yeah, that's right. Jeez. Hide and seek within AK-47 is really just cry and hunt. Yeah, yeah. And then I'm trying to do this thing where I'm like, do you play house party or like tea party? Yeah, sure. As kids, right?

So I want to kind of do what is Tea Party within AK-47? So I'm trying to build that and kind of go from there. Yeah, that's a really, that's a really fertile area. I mean, you might have to explain to people why there was a guard. I mean, like, just the context of them. And it's, yeah, it's one of those things where I think about that, I think about that. the time even at the airport when you go to certain countries and they have semi-automatic weapons and things and you just go what if you're late for your flight you're sprinting you

know what I mean you're sprinting there and all you're misunderstood and I think about this more than you Mike I probably no of course I think I've said this to you before like when I fly I have to dress like I'm buying the airline man I have to, like, just, at immigration, I have to be decked out. Yes. You need them to know that I'm serious. You're the kind of person who might have a correlation with the person who is their boss. Yeah.

Or the boss of their boss of their boss. So, yeah, that's the bit I'm trying to work on. That's kind of childhood, gilded cage, AK-47. What is the way? What's the line? Can you repeat the line that hide and go? seek one? Hide and seek within AK-47 is just cry and hunt.

Right. It could just be hiding and go seek with AK-407 is hide. That's nice. Maybe we shouldn't. We don't have to seek. Very nice. There's no need. Nice.

But yeah, I think it's like a funny, it's a great, I mean, it's a great piece of imagery. Yeah, it is. For like any kind of like, I'm trying to think of different childhood games. Did you do tag? We had tag. we had hide and seek we had what were the other punchlines uh the tag was one hide and seek then i had and what was tag oh just tag is just a one round game because you don't want to get tagged right um you could do like a a rifle pointing at a bobby doll right and be like which was his

just to clarify we don't need to haggle over this yeah yeah sure sure you could do that you could do cops and robbers cops and robbers yeah cops and robbers is just you know cops I'm not playing the robber I refuse to play the robber I don't even want to pretend I mean hopscotch is well

both shooting that's dark the whole thing is dark yeah it is but it's great I think it's a great I think it's a great joke I was looking at my notebook for things that we have in common

because I think we're about the same age I'm 47 yeah I'm 46 yeah I go I'm 47 and I'm 47 and I finally feel my age. I feel like I've been 47 since I was about 15. And when I was in my 20s, everyone was like,

are you 47? Like, now I'm 25. They'd be like, cool. Now I'm 47. It feels like I'm 47, but also 15. You have that? Very nice. I feel like I'm both.

Yeah. Like, I feel like I was never 25. Like, I think I never was. Yeah. And it just didn't happen. I think the question will then be, what is a 15-year-old? to you.

Right. To expand on like that. Like I went to a... Right, what is age? What is... But also, I went to a college yesterday to talk about the book. Yeah.

They don't look like college kids like I remember them. They're young. They're young. Yeah, yeah. My God, they look like school children. But they're post-grads. You know what I mean?

Yeah. So what does a 15-year-old look like to you? Right. You know, I think would be interesting. Yeah, I think that's good. And then I wrote, when I was 10, people were like, do you have kids? I was like, I know, I think I am a kid. I was four feet tall and had acne.

People thought I was starting a family. I hid, yeah. So then there's that. And then I also had my daughter walking to school. And she goes, you know, I don't feel 10. She's 10. I don't feel 10. I go, I don't feel 47.

She goes, I don't even think of 47 as an age. I just think of it as a number. use in math class. Which is entirely true. I don't have a punchline for it. It's just a ridiculous conversation. A number I use in math class. There's a callback there.

If you do the whole bit and your daughter's like, I feel 10, you'd be like, you should start a family. Yeah, you know, that's guys. You know, you can come back to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You should start a family. That's good. So the final thing we do is working out for our cause.

Is there a nonprofit that you like to contribute to? What we will do is contribute to them. and then link to them at the show. They're called Yoda. Yoda. And they, again, it's for dogs again. Oh, great. So they're a charity out of Goa and, you know, they help stray animals.

They're good people. It's yoda.co.com.com. I.N. We will contribute to them. We will link to them in the show notes. They will be very surprised to receive a donation for me, I think. They'd be like, Mike Barbiglia. They're going to sing the song, Mike Barbiglia.

Hey, man. And I do want to say this on mic before I leave. Old Man in the Pool, when I saw it at the Vivian Beaumont, there's some pieces of art where you're like, I want to get to that level of craft. And so I'm very much trying to follow in your footsteps of craft. You're a big influence on me, and I appreciate you. That means the world to me, Vera. You're continued success.

You're doing amazing work. I hope people read your book, see your special, and see you on tour. You're doing an amazing work. Thank you, man. Working it out because it's not done. We're working it out because there's no... That's going to do it for another episode of Working It Out. You can follow Veer Das on Instagram at Vir Das, V-I-R-D-A-S.

You can get his book, The Outsider, at your local bookstore. You can watch his latest special full volume on Netflix. Check out Burbigs.com to sign up for the mailing list to be the first to know about my upcoming shows. And you can watch the full video. this episode on our YouTube channel at Mike Berbiglia. Make sure you click subscribe because we're posting more and more videos. Our

producers of working out are myself along with Peter Salomon, Joseph Barbiglia, Mabel Lewis, and Gary Simon, sound mixed by Shub Sarin. Supervising engineer Kate Balinski, special thanks to Jack Antonoff and bleachers for their music. Special thanks as always to my wife, the poet J. Hope Stein, and our daughter

Una, who built the original radio fort made of pillows. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. If you enjoy our show, rate us and review us on Apple Podcasts. It really helps. We've recorded almost 200 episodes. They're all free. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. Tell your friends. Tell your enemies. Tell your doctor the next time you lose your voice. Or maybe just write it down, since you can't speak. Just write a little note. Hi, Loss. I've lost my voice, but I'm really enjoying this podcast called Mike Barbiglius.

Talks to Comedians and other creatives about writing, performing, and how to get your voice back. Literally and artistically. Thanks, everybody. We're working it out. We'll see you next time.