Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 201. Heidi Gardner: Behind Your Favorite SNL Characters

Episode Date: February 2, 2026

Heidi Gardner went from being a hairdresser in LA to joining the Groundlings to 8 seasons on SNL, where she created characters like “Dianne, The Mom Who's Only Read About New York on Facebook” and “A Woman Who Insists She's Not Mad.” Heidi talks with Mike about her SNL experience, which included hosting a tailgate party in her dressing room for Travis Kelce, and she shares the lessons she learned about creating comedic characters from her days in the Groundlings. Plus, Heidi’s love for her native Kansas City, and an update on Mike and Jen’s rat problem.Please consider donating to Big Slick Kansas City Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

One of the things that always interests me about your story is that you were like a hairdresser for like a considerable amount of time before you did comedy? Like in LA. Yeah. Was it that your coworkers were like you're funny, you should do this? It was a friend of mine that I met who was in the groundlings and she said, come see me in a show tonight and I went and saw it. And it was so funny and great. And at the end of it, I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm so excited because now I can take any out-of-towners from Kansas City to grounding shows. Like, thank you for introducing me to this.

Right. And she said, I invited you to the show because I thought maybe you'd want to take classes here. And I was like, I'm not an actor. And she was like, you leave me seven-minute voicemails in character. You can do this. That is the voice of the great Heidi Gardner. Yay! This is episode 201 of working it out.

We are thrilled to have Heidi Gardner on the show today. I've been a fan of hers for many, many years. She's on SNL for eight seasons. She's on the new Tracy Morgan series, the Fall and Rise of Reggie Dinkins. She is hilarious, and we have a great chat today. Last week, of course, we had John Mullaney for the 200th episode. It was probably our biggest episode ever.

If you haven't heard that one, go back and listen. We have a great chat. It is on YouTube as well. Thanks to everyone who has signed up for working it out premium on Apple Podcast. There's more bonus content coming very soon. We're actually recording it today. So you'll get it, I think, next week. And, of course, you get ad-free versions of this very podcast.

Some people like the ads, like my wife Jenny, and some people don't. I also have some tour dates coming up with John Mullaney, Nick Kroll, and Fred Armeson. They're coming up this fall in New Hampshire, as well as Grand Rapids, Michigan. Also, I will be doing my own show at Netflix as a Joke Festival May 6th in Los Angeles at the Wilshire Ebel Theater, where I've played before. It's a lovely venue. Get your tickets now at berbigs.com. I think you're going to love this conversation I have with Heidi Gardner today. We talk about her starting out, doing improv and sketch comedy at the groundlings in Los Angeles.

We talk about SNL. We talk about Kansas City. We talk about creating a realistic character in sketch comedy. Heidi and I both share advice we got when we were starting out. I think Heidi is fantastic. We improvise at UCB with the Please Don't Destroy guys before. She's just a salt to the earth person and a hilarious, hilarious writer and performer. Enjoying my conversation with the great Heidi Gardner.

When you did SNL, were you stressed every week? Every week? Like every week? Yeah. That's interesting. Do you feel like now that's over, you're like not stressed? Yeah. Like you're mellow?

Yeah. Yeah. But I also think when I was doing it after a while, you get to a point where you're like, well, I'm comfortable here. I'm good. I'm comfortable. Like, I can just have fun. But no matter what, you're always strapped.

It is high stakes and you care so much. It is high stakes, yeah. But also, did you have to talk yourself down from the ledge when you're there and go like, well, what's the worst thing that could happen? No, it was always like the worst thing that could happen or the worst thing that could happen was like not getting to do your thing that week. Right. It was just there were so many worse things that could happen. And at least one of the worst things would always happen. That would.

I have to say, like, I envy. so many things about you guys getting to do S&L, but like, that's the thing that would crush me is if I worked on something and then someone was like, you can't do it. I know. Like that would. The majority of what you do, too, there. Is it really? I think for me, I mean, I, like, I ended up getting cut.

So I feel like more than anyone in the world. No way. There's no way. I really think so. And it's weird. Because when I think about other things that I do in my life, like, I love to throw parties. I love to like, and I, when I get to do that, like, I'll do a whole, like, three-day weekend party. And I get to have all my ideas and I get to execute it.

Yeah. I get to see it turn out well. And when I think about all that energy and giving all that energy at that job and most of the time you don't see it, you're like, what? Totally. Especially when you know you're competent and you're like, I saw myself do it. good. Right. Right, because it's ultimately like so many people deciding. Totally. Yeah. And then probably like the audience deciding in some ways like at the rehearsal. Do you ever have something that made rehearsal and you're just like, this is one of the best things I've ever done and got cut?

It's weird. When things would get cut, I would be upset. Sometimes you totally know. Sometimes you're upset. I wouldn't watch them back a lot. because I was maybe too sad about it. And then years later, I watched a few that were on the server, and I was like, probably good. It got caught. Totally. Who they saved me there.

Totally. But, yeah, there's not one that fully comes to mind that I'm like, but yeah, I definitely had a few for sure. Yeah. Your characters on Weekend Update are like some of my favorite ever on the show. Thank you. Just like. Thanks.

Well, I feel like it's always like woman who blank, co-worker who blank. You know, like a couple of them were like the mom who's only read about New York on Facebook, the coworker who's extremely busy doing seemingly nothing, a mom whose son just got famous, a woman who insists she's not mad. How do you pitch those? And like, how do you decide if it's good enough to pitch? It is genuinely just seeing someone in the world. Like I remember watching that. It's just seeing a woman and being like, oh, I think I got you pegged just off of an action, just something she's wearing. I watched that Jake Paul Mike Tyson fight.

And at the end, you know, he's celebrating in the ring and you see Logan Paul get in there. You see his like beautiful girlfriend. And then you just see this like kind of sneaky, sneak woman come in who's actually. who's actually blinged out more than anyone. And I'm like, that's the mom. And she is loving her life. And then it just goes from there. And then I start thinking about other moms.

And, you know, you think about the juxtaposition of a that mom. Yeah. To like Mama Kelsey. And like. Yeah. And that one felt to me, I just had a billion ideas immediately. Yeah. So yeah, it's just, and it really was just this woman sneaking in the rain.

That is so funny. Did you know, you know Mama Kelsey, right? I've met her, yeah. Right. Yeah. And because you're KC. folk. Casey folk. And you're like, ride or die on Casey. Right or die.

Similar to Caleb, Heron, who was on here too. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Yes. Love Caleb. So I have to be right or die, Caleb. I would be anyways. He's great. Yeah. And you guys do that big slick fundraiser every year for Children's Hospital in Kansas City. Paul Rudd.

Jason Sadekis. Rob Riggle. Rob Riggle. Dave Kekner, Eric Stone Street. Yeah. It seems like there's like a ton of goodwill for Kansas City. I know. We're so lucky.

From the hometown folks. From the hometown folks and then the people we bring in for the Big Slick, they end up loving Kansas City. Yeah. I have a lot of friends that come in town, have visited Kansas City in the past few years, whether it be Big Slick or they'll come in for my birthday. and they're full, like, Casey lovers now. Yeah. It's easy to love.

You fall in love quick. Tell me three things to love about Kansas City. I mean, these are so... Okay, well, the obvious ones that are the barbecue. Barbecue's amazing. Arthur's. Yeah, Arthur Bryant's. The best burn-ins are at LCs.

Every single place has their own, like, best thing. I love the Sosa Gates. But, yes, I'm still obsessed with barbecue. and I'm still obsessed with the chiefs. Okay, that's true. And the people. I'm obsessed with the people. But if you were getting a little bit more niche about it, I'd say the downtown area in Kansas City and the art scene there and just like just the bars and the galleries.

It's just really come up in the last 15 years. It's just like a good place to be. That's great. Very fun down there. I performed at the Midland. Yeah, it's beautiful. It's really nice, gorgeous, like really old, beautiful building. Yep, we used to go see the Nutcracker there.

Oh, that's cool. Yeah. But like a lot of loyalty for that town. Oh, big time. And it just, I don't hear other people talk about their hometown. Me neither. Like I do or Paul or Jason do. Like, we're very, and there's nothing in the water.

We just like it. Right. So we're not. I promise. And you have like this unbelievable house there. Yeah. That was an architectural digest. Mm-hmm.

This is like gorgeous. Thank you. So you live like part time there and here kind of thing? Okay. Yeah. That is so cool. And then you celebrate your birthday every year for multiple days? Yeah.

When's your birthday? It's July 27th. So it's like a three-day party? Three-day party. And every night is a different theme. But it's like really, it's a full camp. It's a full weekend where like, especially if you come in town for, it's it's a lot what are some of the themes can you say yeah so the the the third night is always

kind of just the rowdyest night it's like people are tired it's kind of in that way we're like can I really even pull it together for one more day or night and this third night it's been my favorite night I've done this for three years now this third night I did a thing called disguise night okay And what Disguise Night is is everybody shows up to one location in five-minute increments in disguise. Not a Halloween costume, but just enough, something different to throw your friends off. So there were about 35 of us. We went to this place called Knucklehead Saloon in Kansas City, which is like a biker bar concert venue. There was a new wave cover band playing that night and like a Boogie Nights Disco one.

So I was like, there's already going to be people like, you know, with flair. So I really think with disguise, we will blend in great. And then the goal is you try to find everybody. And then we got on a party bus. And then went to the next location all in disguise. What was your disguise? My disguise was, I can show you. Me and my friend Teddy, we dressed up as two guys.

Our names were Seth and Barrett. and we looked like that. Okay, so this... So the disguise is just another person. It's not like... Another person... You're dressed as a detective or, like, Professor Plum or something.

You're just actually another person. Another person. Yes. I mean, like... Oh. You hold it up to this camera. So we were these guys. This is just those two dudes.

Yep. That is hilarious. I read that you were a vote. most likely to be on SNL when you were in high school. So I feel like between the disguises and like being voted most likely to be on SNL, like that was always part of you? Like what was your tip off in high school to your classmates that that's most likely to be on SNL? I think.

So those things were part of me like Disguise Night or prank phone calls or doing funny, you know, back in the day I called them Skis. doing funny skits like at the talent show or school assemblies, but definitely not acting or theater or any sort of training or anything that required classes and money to take. So, and also I was shy. So I think it was just what tipped people off was maybe my good friends that I was comfortable with being like, she's funny or have her do this or, you know, she would do good. and then kind of getting pressured into things and then doing them. And yeah, I'm still surprised because I was like,

I was fairly shy. I'm surprised that I got that. Yeah. You were like, one of the things that always interests me about your story is that you were like a hairdresser for like a considerable amount of time before you did comedy? Like in L.A.

Yeah. Like how many years? I did hair for nine years and probably, six years into that, I started taking classes at groundlings. Wow. Yeah. So when you moved to L.A., did you know you wanted to do comedy? No.

It was fully to do hair. It was actually to work on movies doing hair and makeup. But then I was like, oh, there's unions. I was already in L.A. at this point. And I was like, I can't get on a set. And I was also like, I can't just work for copy and credit. Like, I need to pay rent. So I started working at a salon.

And then at a certain point, was it that your coworkers were like, you're funny, you should do this? It was a friend of mine that I met who was in the groundlings. And she said, come see me in a show tonight. And I went and saw it. And I'd heard of the groundlings for sure. I mean, also as a kid, obsessed with pop culture, S&L, all the things. Yeah. Obsessed with movies, could quote movies, just thought, like, I'm just going to quote movies.

my whole life. But went and saw her in the groundlings. It was so funny and great. And at the end of it, I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm so excited because now I can take any out-of-towners from Kansas City to groundling shows. Like, thank you for introducing me to this. Right. And she was kind of, like, upset by that and said, I invited you to the show because I

thought maybe you'd want to take classes here. And I was like, I'm not an actor. And she was like, you leave me seven-minute voicemails in character. You can do this. That's so funny. So then, yeah, I told my brother, and he said, I've been waiting our whole lives for you to say this. I'll pay for your classes.

That's so sweet. I know. And so groundlings if people don't know is essentially like the equivalent in New York would be, well, there isn't one. but like UCB or like in Chicago, Second City, in Los Angeles is the groundlings. It's basically like, I don't want to get this wrong, it was a sketch and improv, right?

Yeah, for sure. So were you, so you went in, and they have like, they have like similar to Second City. They have like main stage shows and then like more like work in progress kind of shows. Yeah, main company, a Sunday company who are all the people that are wanting to get in the main company. and then all the classes that come before that and all the levels. Yeah. And so how long were you in groundlings?

I think total it was five years until I got into groundleans with taking classes and Sunday company. Yeah. And then I was in the ground liens for a year and a half when I auditioned for S&O. So when you did groundlings, did you have the kind of like these are my people moment feeling of like, oh my God, this is what I should be doing. It's so weird, definitely. I mean, I was having the time in my life in a very, almost unaware way. I'll say when I was taking the classes, I didn't even understand the levels for a while at

Groundland, so I really was just doing it. Like, this is making me less shy and this is fun and, oh my gosh, like, people think I'm funny. It felt so no stakes and just so, such a fun hobby. Yeah. Then I learned the stakes. And it's like almost I wish I could go back in time and be like, I wish I wouldn't have learned the stakes. I just don't think I was ever competitive in life before that. Right.

Turned you on? Yeah. It like, it activated you. Well, it just made you feel like, oh, I have to. I have to get this thing. I have to. Oh, this is like, you have to get ground lanes. And then you have to get S&L.

Right. But since I was a hairdresser, I kept, I could. easily act like I didn't want it. I was just kind of like, I'm doing this for fun, even though inside I was like, I want this, all these things so bad. Yeah. So I definitely, but the thing that was weird was that a lot of people at Groundleans were actors that were just also good actors that I remember just already being so behind and so jealous. Yeah. Well, you know, when I would just have to play the straight man in a scene, I'm like, I don't know what to do. I want to cross my eyes. right now.

I don't like, how can you be such a good actor and be funny? There's not even jokes on the page and you're being funny. Yeah. It's like, so I just felt really behind. It's so funny, though, because you and I improvised at UCB with the Please Don't Destroy Guys once. And I was like, I feel like whenever folks from S&L come over and improvise at UCB, you just jump in so easily.

Like, I feel like, is that a skill you developed through years? Like, I was just like, I was just like, Heidi can just like improvise. with anyone and is like fearless. Like you seem fearless on stage improvising. I think it's a people pleaser thing. Really? You know, Mikey Day and I would always talk about going back to ground lanes and doing an improv show. Yeah.

How the stakes feel so high because you're like, well, I've been doing SNL. And then if I come back and do this show or even I would think, I'm sure I thought about it that night. Like, what if people come and see me at UCB and I suck? Right. And they can see all the holes. But I agreed to it, so I'm doing it. And I'm always nervous about an improv show. Always.

And always, like, think afterwards to beat yourself up. Yeah. It's so funny you should say that your original intention to taking the improv of the improv workshop was just to like, you know, do it as an exercise and loosen up and all these things. It's like, I always say that to people who do you have no interest in comedy is like taking an improv class. It's an interesting life experiment. Yeah. Probably the biggest thing I still think about that I learned within the first or second improv class I took was, you know, hey, you got to not apologize when something stupid flies out of your mouth. Because we're improvising.

A billion stupid things are going to come out. So don't look at the teacher and be like, sorry or your scene partner is sorry. And I was perpetually one of just those people in life that are like, sorry. Oh, sorry. Okay. Goodbye. You know? Totally.

And the way the teacher broke it down was like, sometimes when you say, when you're apologizing all the time, it makes the person on the other end of the apology so uncomfortable because they're kind of like, what did I do to you that is making you so sorry? And I really thought about that a lot because I was like, I say sorry all the time. Right. Like it's putting something on the other person. Yeah, where they're just like, did I scare you? Like, or did I? Right. Yeah.

That's going to make me think a lot about myself, too. I think I apologize a lot. Yeah. I think it at least lessened my apologies, I hope. So you're doing improv there? And is that the first time you had done sketch other than high school? Yeah, for sure. Did you learn anything at Groundlings that you had never considered about comedy?

I think I just learned a lot at Groundlings. Had so many good teachers about just grounding a character in reality. Yeah. One of my best examples of that was my mom, my whole life, is such a character, you know, just like, wears her sunglasses at night, you know, like forever used to like would call everybody girlfriend, oh girlfriend or oh, motherfucker. Or like, you know, my mom. And like these sunglasses, short, spiky hair, fingerless gloves, just like, so many things about her, okay? And when, And the first I was like, oh, perfect. This will be like one of my showcase groundlings characters in one of my classes. And so I write a sketch and it's just like all the things that are about my mom that I said and a hundred other things in a three-minute sketch. And I do the sketch and I pitch it.

My teacher was like, um, Heidi, that's not a real person. And I was like, it absolutely is a real person. It's my mom. And they're like, pick one. Pick one thing. And, like, build a sketch around that and put, or two of those things, and put her in a fish out of water situation. And then guess what? You have a hundred other funny specifics.

You can do those in other sketches. Like, he was just like, if you load it this hard from the top, they're not going to believe you, you know? And that has just trickled down with characters for me where it's like, oh, I really can focus in on one specific. You know, like the mom whose son just got famous. Like the way I saw that mom, what she was wearing, like, that was enough where I could go deeper. And I didn't have to like, I don't know, research this woman so much and pull all the, you know. Yes. It was just.

Well, it's one quirk. Yeah. That provides, like, information into a character's like desire or want. Yeah. And if you, yeah, if you run with that, that can be something. Yes. That already is absurd. Yes.

Like when I did a sketch on SNL based off of my mom when she went to Cuba when my brother and I were really young or probably like 10 or 11. And she came back and she was calling it Cuba, Cuba, Cuba, Cuba. So like that was funny. But then also she years later said to us like, oh, well, you know, when I was in Cuba, I, you know, attended a rooster competition. And Justin and I were like, rooster competition? She was like, yeah, those roosters.

And we were like a cockfight. And she was like, I don't believe. And we were like, was there a dead rooster at the end of it? But that was something where it's like, okay, that's enough. That funny tidbit of my mom, the Cuba and the cockfight. I don't have to have also the sunglasses on. You don't need the cut off gloves. Yes, I can actually look like a different.

I can look like just a more, like, quote unquote, normal woman so that that offsets it. Like, just, you know. That is super smart. Like, honestly, like, that's making me think a lot about stuff I'm even writing right now. Like, I were right. Like, I remember I took a workshop once with Ian Roberts from UCB, and he said, like, a really simple thing. He was just, like, there's no reason to play a wild character. if you're you haven't like figured out the best way to play yourself.

Whoa. And I was like, man. Wow. Yes. That's exactly right. Wow. And so with improv for like many, many years, I was just like zero in on like, okay, well, what are the motivations of the myself version of this? Yeah.

That's like shaking me my core for even life and everything. Totally. Yeah. So you're at ground. You have like literally like the best case scenario for being a groundling, which is SNL has like an audition. And did you get it from? I saw your audition, which is amazing. Because it was on the 50s.

Oh, yeah. Like it was like you did Kristen Shawl. It's like fantastic. Thank you. Is it so you get the call. You get the you, they did Lauren come see groundlings? No, I did a showcase. ground lanes where a lot of the producers had come.

That's cool. And like the talent department. And then they then flew me out a week later to do a test. Yeah. Was it with other groundlings at the same time? Yep. It was with some of the Sunday company and other groundlings. Yeah.

Did anyone get it who you were friends with like the same year? Mm-mm. No. How was that? Well, kind of luckily. most of the people that I did it with were in the Sunday company, so I didn't know them quite as well. Right. You know, so I didn't have to feel.

But, you know, I was in New York with a couple of them during the auditions, and they were amazing to me, and we really were there for each other. Yeah. Yeah. So I'll always remember that. It's so funny. You're like, in your audition, I have to say, like, you were saying you get nervous before shows or whatever, you seem not phased at all. You seem as confident as just a cast member on the show. Well, that is what was really crazy about even doing that documentary about the auditions.

We started getting – so I did two auditions for S&L. I think the one they showed on that show was my first one. It was within two weeks. And it's like once you do it, then you black out completely. It's like an anxiety blackout. I'm like, I think it was good. And then I start thinking about all the things I did. bad or yeah just anxiety don't really remember the audition at all and i knew for years at

s andl because the writers would be like oh i pulled up your audition on the server and i was thinking about this character and i'm like that is just accessible to everyone like i don't want anyone to see my audition and you know you'd see you know will feral's audition and i was like no one ever better release of mine i never you know just had this really shame-based thing i'm like i got the job I don't know why I was thinking so mean about it. I was so scared. So when time comes around, they're doing that documentary for the 50th about the auditions, we start getting those emails that are like, would you come in and talk about your audition?

And I said, absolutely, I just want to make sure this isn't a thing where I talk about my audition. And then at the end, I watch my audition. And the email back to me just said, exactly. Exactly. And I was like, well, I said, I just want to make sure it's not. And so then they said exactly. So I was like, okay. So then I get there.

I talk about my audition. And the director was like, all right. And now we're going to queue it up. And I was like, whoa, I for sure said I didn't want this. And I don't know that I can do this. Is it okay to walk out? I actually don't know if I can do this. I have been avoiding this for almost eight years now.

And it was almost like it was my first time. He was like, we can take it slow if at any point you want to stop. You just let me know. I was like, okay. And then it was so weird because it wasn't that painful. I watched it. And the resounding thing was, I cannot believe I did that. I'm sure I have not watched that documentary or heard what I said, but I'm sure I said that.

I feel like I'm such a baby. I watch that. I'm like, I look different. My hair is longer. All these things, I'm like, who was that girl? And I can't believe she did something so brave. We're going to cue it up. I emailed with you.

You wrote exactly. I wrote exactly. There was an understanding that I was going to play it. Yeah. Exactly. I love that the email is intentionally opaque. Yeah, one word. Exactly. Very smart manipulation.

Yeah. Who's your favorite SNL host and least favorite SNL host? Oh my gosh. My favorite SNL host is Jack Black. Oh. He's my hero. He's amazing. Yeah.

And he was the best. I've said it too many times now. But I'm like, I got to meet my hero. I got to work with my hero. Because people say don't meet your heroes. but I got to work with my hero, meet my hero. And my hero inspired me to be a better person and watching him who he is around set that week, how much people want his energy and just to quote his movies.

Totally. And that he still has so much love to give. Oh. It was the best. I remember actually after that show thinking to myself, this is not true. But I was like, I might quit. Just like I wouldn't have really better Just how good I felt

Like and all my friends came The two shows where like I had so many friends and family Come over the eight years But like It was a big deal for people to come For the Travis Kelsey show Yeah

Because there was a chief on SNL Sure And then we were such like tenacious deheads Like in end of high school college Yeah And just in love with Jack Black our whole lives And so it was like I've, I had a tailgate the Travis Kelsey week in my dressing room. And I had a Jack Black, essentially tailgate in my dressing room that week.

And we just partied and celebrated. That is so funny. So when you say you have a tailgate, it's like you're kind of semi-barbecuing, like in your dressing room. For Travis Kelsey, definitely full barbecue. And him and Jason Kelsey came in before the show, ate barbecue. Oh, my God. For Jack Black. Did you bring in Casey barbecue?

I didn't do that. Okay. And I should have because then I found out I can. I mean, actually it would have been a whole thing because you can order Casey Barbecue, but you kind of like suve it and boil it. I actually don't think I could have gotten that done that day. Totally. But then for Jack Black, everything was like a Jack Black reference.

So in Savings Silverman, he plays a character called J.D. McNugent, and he works at Subway. And his thesis at college was a party sub. So I got a party sub for Jack Flack. Oh, my God. Who's your least favorite host? Oh, my gosh. How could I ever say that or pick that? I'm trying to think.

In hushed tones, people have said to me, Bieber. Well, I didn't work with him. Oh, you didn't? No. I'm trying to think. I thought you had. I don't know. Uh-uh.

Oh, no, he was a musical guest. Oh, okay. But I didn't, I don't even think I met him that week. Is there anyone who's come on who you were surprised how funny they were? Oh, I'm, well, this was like a big lesson in life. So my first year, I think it was my first year, Sterling K. Brown hosted. And I had just seen him in dramatic stuff. Sure.

And at the table read, there was a sketch where he's saying that Shrek is the best DreamWorks movie. He's like defending it. And like he's on it. He's with his date, I think, like at her parents' house or something. And I think Beck probably plays the dad, and he's like, no, it's not. It's how to train your dragon or something. And watching him at that table read defend Shrek and just all the words on the page, he didn't play anything for jokes.

He just earnestly acted it. And it was so funny. And I was like, wait, are dramatic actors funnier than funnier people? Oh, that's interesting. Because if any of us at that table who worked on the show would have read that sketch, We would have been going so hard. Totally. Oh, you get in the Shrackers?

You know, just doing a full character. He just played himself defending it. And then I've always just watched like, I probably had my best weeks at the show when it was like a Benedict Cumberbatch, a Josh Roll. Someone who's a little dramatic where I can be a little crazier and like play off. I've actually, I've heard that idea before that like it's often the best guest host who come in just play every. Everything down. It's like totally straight. Yeah.

And they're just good. Yeah. And they're just good to bounce off of. Yeah. And that, yeah, sometimes sometimes when people come in with expectations of like being big and broad, it's like, hmm. What are we going to do about him? Yeah. How do we work around this?

Yeah. When you were a hairdresser, did you ever have like a, what do I do moment? Like, uh-oh. Oh, like where I messed up some hair. Yes. And I think about those often, actually. Like a friend of mine's hair that I cut way too many layers in it. Or we were kind of just becoming friends.

And then I gave her a bad haircut. And I think the friendship ended. The budding friendship. It chilled it. I couldn't go on because I messed up her hair. Wow. And then when time I was... Was it noticeable?

Her hair? I mean, when she left the salon, I thought she looked cool. Yeah. She definitely was like, you know, sent me messages that were like, I do not know what to do with this. Oh, my God. And if I think about it, I'm like, yeah, it was probably too many layers. But she was like so cool and pretty and it was like around hipster time. So it just seemed like she could pull off anything.

Totally. Yeah. And then I do remember bleaching a girl's hair once and putting her under the dryer. And I mean, she wanted it like white, like, you know, queen of. of Dragon's hair. And at one point her being like, it's burning, it's burning. I'm rinsed it. And her hair did not fall out.

But I hate the fact that, like, she felt like her head. Yes. Yeah. You were known on SNL for not breaking. That's, like, one of the things you were known for. How come you broke during Beavis and Butthead? So it's funny because I didn't even really know that I was known for not breaking. Although inside of me, I, I don't know.

I, like, so had, like, a stick up my butt about, like, you can't break. Can't break. Because I know when people just break, just to break. And, you know, I was just very, it's like, the audience loves when people break. It's fine. I mean, sometimes it can be used as a tool in the wrong way. But it's like, that just means people are having fun. But I was just so just like, no, this is my job.

And I do not break. And I stay in the scene. So I will say that it does make me very happy that, well, some of the reason I think that I broke, And I've broken this down because I'm like, I broke so hard. Like, how can you not break and then break that hard for that long? Like, I was a little worried. Like, another sketch might have gotten cut because it's like a minute break. And everything's time-wise there.

But if you watch Debbie Downer when everyone starts breaking, or at least from Timecula where everyone's breaking, everyone is at a round table. Everyone can see each other and see exactly what's going on. And I just don't think in a sketch where someone, like, big time broke, Did they ever have to not know something and look back for a reveal? You know? Right. Right.

So I just think I was set up a little. It's not fair. Yes. But then I will say I did see Mikey in the rehearsal during the day on Saturday. I saw him at dress rehearsal. Yeah. Mikey is like a brother to me. So someone who makes me laugh anyways.

But they did keep amping up the look by the time it got to air. Yeah. And then just like someone, you know, spikes the camera. If you look at Mikey, he definitely spikes me. Like he, when I look back at him, he does this thing with his face. He goes hard. And I just, it's like, it is as if I was doing S&L with one of my brothers. And I were doing something to annoy me.

Because the one thing that I'm so surprised I didn't do because I know I'm thinking it when I watch back, I know that I'm wanting to say, Mikey, stop, stop. Like, totally. I'm so surprised. At least I didn't do that. But that's what I would have done to one of my brothers. Like, stop.

I feel like that do you have any tricks to not breaking? Like, I feel like when I was in all out, I had to do tricks to not break sometimes because back and Cecily, like I would want to laugh. And I would kind of just like look above them or something. Like I would just like not make eye contact. Mm-hmm. I mean, it used to be something. where people are like, if you bite your cheeks or your lip or something, I'm like, that's kind of obvious. I think I do a thing now where I am about to break. I think I've done this and all out where I just, I go, oh, or make like a sound like, uh, uh, like, is enough, it's like an inhale, an audible inhale so I don't exhale a laugh. And then I think I can keep going.

That is really technical. Yeah. Up, up, up. And then I can usually play that off into the character. Yeah. Okay, this is called The Slow Round. What do you daydream about? Daydream about? Oh, I really want to open a movie theater, and I dream about it all day long.

You know, I think about that a lot, too. Really? Yeah. I love movie theaters. Yeah. Do you think you might do it? Like, I feel like you could in Kansas City. Like Quentin Tarantino, I think, has a movie theater in Los Angeles.

Like, I think it is a thing you could plausibly do. You think you might do it? Wow. Yeah. I'm coming. Okay, good. That's too what a big part of that is I want people to come in. I want it to be community talkbacks, connection.

Yeah. I want to be talking about movies. I want to be visiting. I want to be encouraging that afterwards. Disguises? Disguises. People come dressed up as the characters in the movie. Well, here's the thing.

It's like if I show true lies in my theater, I want to say, Jamie Lee Curtis in that movie famously wears a little black dress. I want to be like, if you come in a little black dress, free popcorn. Free popcorn. Fun incentives. That's a great idea. Yeah. You get Jack Black to come.

I would. Get a bunch of kids with playing instruments at the theater. That seems fun, right? School of Rock Night. School of Rock Night. Yes. That seems great. Yeah.

I love that. That's what I daydream about. Can you remember a roommate or neighbor that you had that was particularly bad or good? Oh, yeah. I had a neighbor in L.A. that every night I could hear her having sex with a different person. I was also mid-20s at the time, so I don't know. I would have thought that I would be chill just like, hey, we all go out. We all hook up or something.

But I was working at the salon. I had early clients, early mornings. Right. I was also, it was like a different cadence. It was different sex every night. It wasn't just like a couple's like soon to be boring. You know, I was just like, this is every, this is different. This is wild.

You ever say it? Yeah. Well, okay, so first I did all the passive things. They were just kind of like, hey. And then nothing. I guess that's not passive. Banging on the wall. I'd play like Michael Bolton.

through the wall because I was like, they won't want to hear. They won't keep having sex to steal bars, but they did. And then one night, I like, knock, knock, knock. I'm so mad. It's four in the morning. And a guy answers the door. And I'm like, are you the one? And he's like, excuse me?

I'm like, are you having sex? And he's like, I am and I would like to get back to it. I was like, listen, I, every night I get woken up by sex. And I work out of service. salon and I have to be to work to, you know, like to color and cut in, you know, three hours and I just need my sleep and da-da-da. And he's like, miss, are you familiar with BJ's brewery? And I was like, the brewery in Glendale? Like, yes, I've eaten there. It's like, I'm a server there. If you come in tonight, I am willing to give you a free Pazuki. This is outrageous. And that's the

dessert, the famous BJ's dessert, which is a pizza cookie, it's called the Pizuki, if you just kind of let me wrap things up. Oh, my God. I'm like, just make it quick. I will think about the Pizuki. That's a great outcome. Did you go? No, I didn't.

I was like, I don't want to see him again. And I never did because it was a different guy every night. And then it happened again, I went over there. And she was like, you're just jealous because we are not getting. Oh, my God. And then her roommates, she got kicked out because her roommates were also like, she's not even our friend. She was just kind of crashing here. And then she was like, you know, having sex so much, we kicked her out.

I had one recently where I was on tour in Detroit. And I get the key to my room. And I open the door and people are having sex in the room. And then I go, I don't. And it just kind of loudly had to be like, okay, this was my room okay. But this was my room okay. And so then I had to go to the front desk and be like, there. So the key you gave me is people having sex.

For sure. And then the guy came, yeah, like the guy came. I went back and it was like a different room down the hall. And the guy saw me. And he was like, we're having sex. Is that okay? I was like, sure. This is, I really got cornered by this one.

Yeah. Yeah, that's tough. Yeah. It's a bad neighbor. Yeah. Okay, so I, this is material. Ooh. New material.

Fine. This is an update to last week. I did, I actually talked about this like a few weeks ago, but there was a rat in our ceiling. I know. And I say, whenever I say to an audience, it's like different. levels of reaction because out of towners are shocked. You know what I mean? Like New Yorkers, I feel like there's some sense of like when you move to New York,

you're like, I hope I don't see a rat. And then after a week, you're like, I hope I don't see rats. And after like a month, you're like, I hope a rat doesn't eat my face. And like 10 years later, a rat's eating your face. And you're like, say what you will about this city. I like it. And so there's a rat in her ceiling. Yeah.

And Jen says, she was. She was like, we got to do something. And so I call the rat guy. It's this guy named Eric. And he comes over. And we're like, so there was a rat in the ceiling. And then he goes over here. And then Jen goes, also he was over here, but also over here.

But that actually might have been in a dream. And I had to be like, we have to keep the dream conversation. like between us, maybe not go into the outside world with the, the, there's a dream. Yeah. And then, so then Eric goes like, I'm going to put poison in your ceiling. And then Jen goes like, we don't, we don't do poison. Very into our like organic stuff. She's like, I don't, we don't do poison in the ceiling.

And this is a guy whose whole job is to put poison in the ceiling. And so he's looking at me like, Mike, what are we going to do? Yeah. You know, about your wife. And I was like, we need two doses of poison. That was when I, yeah, I tried that out this weekend. We need two doses of poison. Obviously, I'm not going to poison my wife, but this is fun, fun goofy joke.

And then, and then, but he says me, goes, well, Mike, what do you think? And I was just like, I think that we don't do poison in the ceiling. And I, the betrayal that Eric felt for me, it was pretty profound. So there's an update. I talked about that a little bit on the Sarah episode, an update, which is I'm at all out one night. I get off stage, get a text from Jen, and it says, call me now. My wife has never in our 20 years of being together texted me, call me now. So I called her and she goes, the rat was in a trap in the ceiling and fell from the ceiling and onto our bedroom floor.

And so I built up the courage to call Eric. I built up the courage to text Eric, call me now. And I call Eric. And I was like, I need, we need your home. So Eric comes over and unceremoniously. murders the rat in our better. I know it's intense. Yeah.

And now we have poison in the ceiling. Yeah. That's the new ending. Now we have poison the ceiling, which is, by the way, so Jen can hear this, is maybe true or maybe not true. We may still not have poison in the ceiling.

So that's anyway, that's a new piece I'm working about about that rats in the ceiling. Have you ever had rats or animals in your plays? So I, ever since I've gone to New York, I think rats are cute. I love rats.

When I see one on the street. That's a crazy day. I know. That's an absurd. I think it's good luck. I have sat with... You think rats are good luck? Yes.

Okay. But I will say, so I have even gone as far as in Brooklyn Heights. There was a rat that was, had been run over or something. I sat with it until it died. I was actually, it was very early on, like, in a new relationship. I think he found it endearing, but, so this is what I'm saying, now. Okay. Where I live now, I have a backyard area where my cats can go out.

And my, I feel like I have, like, the zodiac cat killer. Oh, my God. Just like dead rat, dead mice all the time? Like to the point where there were like seven bodies lined up in the same direction. Oh, I can't take it. Oh, I can't take it. Like he has been methodical about these rats. Is it rats?

Like full-sized rats? No, there's a lot of small ones. Okay. Like, so it's more, more small. This is all to say that it's like I think they're cute. The thought of them being inside or in the bedroom. Yeah. That is a whole different ballgame.

That's a deal breaker. It's a relationship deal breaker. I don't know what, I don't know that it's like I wouldn't want poison either. But if one crawled across me, I don't. That thought is terrified. I had that thought last night in bed for some reason, actually. I was like, what if something crawls across me right now? Like, even though there's not one in the apartment.

Well, it's funny because what your cat thing is reminding me of a thing that I feel like could be a joke in this, which is like, we have two cats. What are they doing? Precious and Mr. Mustache? It's like... Well, Precious isn't in it. You guys, what are we doing? Well, you didn't name them. Precious, I know.

You didn't name them. Precious, I knew you wouldn't be there for us, but Mr. Mustache. No. And not even... I have a John Ross Jr. That sounds like... John Ross Jr. Yes, like, I am...

I'm living up to my legacy. I had a hunting father, John Ross, J.R., and I am John Ross Jr. Wow. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. But, yeah, I think. I think that there might be something in my story of, like, having a heart to heart with the cats and just being like, everybody's got to pay their way around here.

Yes. You guys are on rats. Yeah. Like, fully like, like, when we had rats, the cats ran away. Right. They didn't even go towards the rats. That's wrong. I know it's wrong.

Yeah. They're way too privileged. But in fair, a lot of cat privilege in New York City. Mm-hmm. But, like, in fairness, like, New York City, like, big rats. Big rats, yeah. Like, I mean, it reminded me sizewise more of a guinea pig. Yeah. Oh, fully.

I have a very small gray cat that when it goes outside, it just looks like a rat. And I'm worried then that John Ross Jr. is going to kill Little Romeo. Sure. Because he's little and rat like. John Ross Jr., I think, could kill Little Romeo. I think these are valid fears. Yes. So the final thing we do is working it out for a cause.

We give to an organization that you like to give to, and then we link to it in the show notes, and we encourage listeners to contribute as well. Yeah. The big slick. The big slick. Yeah, big slick. Okay,c.org.

So it is a charity in Kansas City for Children's Mercy Hospital, for kids and families with pediatric cancer. And that's what we raise all the money for. That's what we put on a three-day weekend for... It's in May again, right? Yeah, end of May. So also, I know I always invite people to Kansas City. But it's cool.

Like, you know, we do a big show on Saturday night with, like, all the guests we bring in comedy, live music. It's unbelievable. Like, I have never been, but the photos and the videos are crazy. Like, it seems. seems like kind of a hodgepodge of like all different musical and comedy performers like on stage at once. Totally. I mean, we had, you know, two years ago, George went, Robert Smigel, Sadecas, and Travis Kelsey and Patrick Mahomes all did like the Bears super fan sketch together. That's amazing.

You know, it was so cool. My gosh. So special. Yeah, that opened the show. and then, you know, we had hot ones, like we had the wings challenge. We, all these amazing things. Heidi, thank you so much for coming on the show. Of course.

Yeah, I've been wanting to, so thank you for having me. Amazing. Working it out because it's not done. That's going to do it for another episode of Working It Out. You can follow Heidi Gardner on Instagram at Heidi L. Gardiner. Check up for bigs.com to sign up for the mailing list and to be the first to know about my upcoming shows, you can watch the full video of this very episode

on our YouTube channel at Mike Barbiglia. If you like our videos, subscribe because we are posting more and more videos. Our producers of working it out are myself along with Peter Salomon, Joseph Barbiglia, Mabel Lewis, and Gary Simons, sound mixed by Shub Sarin, supervising engineer Kate Balinski.

Special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers for their music. Special thanks to my wife, the poet Jay Hope Stein, and our daughter, Una, who built the original radio, for made of pillows. Thanks most of all to you who are listening.

If you enjoy this podcast, please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. It really helps out. We've done 201 episodes. We appreciate you so much. Thank you, most of all, for telling your friends and telling your enemies and telling yourself. Let's say your roommate is having loud sex

and keeps waking you up. Just start blasting this podcast. They'll get the idea. Maybe they'll settle down and start listening to deep conversations about craft and comedy. And maybe they'll incorporate those lessons into the sex. Thanks, everybody.

We're working out. We'll see you next time.