Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 203. James Acaster: He Welcomes Hecklers

Episode Date: February 23, 2026

Beloved British comedian James Acaster and Mike have never met but they have a lot in common, including brushes with death early in their lives that influenced their comedy. James and Mike discuss James’s experience with hecklers, which is the subject of James’s new special Hecklers Welcome. Plus, James talks about having Robert De Niro on his podcast Off Menu, and he shares the best pre-show ritual that Mike has ever heard. Please consider donating to Friends of the Earth Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Is it more common in Britain than here? Because I feel like heckling is not that common here. It's much more common in Britain, yeah. I saw Paul McCartney do a Q&A and get heckled by someone who wasn't sat aside with his answer. What did the person say? They said, try and answer all the questions properly, Paul. Oh, come on.

It's Paul McCartney. That's outrageous. It's Paul McCartney in 2022. That is outrageous. Doing a Q&A in a 2000 seater. Wow. That is the voice of the great James Acaster. At last, we have James A.caster.

We've been doing this podcast for five and a half years. People have been saying since episode three that James A.caster should be here. He is an extraordinarily prolific and funny and smart stand-up comic from the UK. He has a new special on HBO called Heckler's Welcome. It is exactly what it sounds like. He opens it up to the crowd for people to heckle him. It's very unique specialty play. It's drums interstitially and fascinating guy.

Never met him before. People talked about this guy to me for years. We've never crossed paths. I think you're going to love this episode. By the way, thanks to everyone who has signed up for working it out premium on Apple Podcasts. The people we call the Birbilia familia, listening to the premium episodes.

Here's what you get. When you sign up for premium, you get all the episodes without ads. That's a big thing people have requested. You get every episode without ads. And then you get these bonus episodes. We did a new bonus episode last week where Connor Ratliff and I punched up your jokes that you sent us to Working It OutPod at gmail.com.

Also, I just recorded another bonus episode that's a little bit different. Something we haven't done before that we're dropping very soon, where I include material that is unreleased. Just like a clip from a show that I've done recently at a club in New York. I'm doing all new material and then talking out with my producers where it could go, what it could be. We talk about thematic ideas

and directions that could go in. So it's very in keeping with the spirit of this original podcast, which is sharing the work in progress with you, the listeners, and the premium listeners get even more access to that. We thank you for that. I just added a few more dates

where I'm supporting John Mulaney. along with Fred Armisen in May in Colorado Springs, Eugene Oregon, as well as Bend, Oregon. Also, I will be in Los Angeles at the Netflix is a joke festival May 6th at the Wilshire Ebell Theater. I'll be performing probably 30 or 40 minutes of new material and hosting a night with comedy friends. I feel like you won't want to miss that.

I think it's going to be some exciting comedy friends. All of these tickets are at Burbush. Biggs.com, B-I-R-B-I-G-S.com. And by the way, thanks to everyone who's signed up for the text message alerts. If you want to join that mailing list, text per Biggs to 9-17-44-7-1-5-0. To be the first to know about my upcoming shows. Man, do I love this conversation with James A. Caster today. Fascinating person.

He started doing stand-up after he survived a really bad car wreck, and then he wrote out a bucket list. And guess what was on the list? Stand-up comedy. Now, he is a massively popular. wildly talented and original comic. We talk about his journey today. We talk about some wild experiences he had with hecklers,

which inspired his new special hecklers. Welcome. I was lucky enough to catch him when he was in town at the Beacon Theater in New York City for a couple nights. Enjoying my conversation with a great James Acaster. Your fandom is really specific, I think. Like the fans of you are like, James is our guy. We like no one else.

You ever noticed that? you don't really look at your stuff online, but that's what a lot of people say. They're like, our number one is this, no other entries. But I think it's a testament to how specific you are.

When I watch your specials, I'm like, nothing is like this. Right. Is that on purpose? I think maybe not so much now, but when I was starting out, I was obsessed with that sort of stuff.

Can't be like anyone else. Yeah. You know, like, and like, I guess in quite an unrealistic way, you know, When I was in bands before that, and I was playing drums in local bands, me and my friend Graham, who I was in all the bands with, were like, we have to be the most original band

and not sound like anyone, do a sound that no one has ever heard before. And obviously, the more you do it, the more you're like, I don't know if that's possible. And then, like, we stand up kind of, yeah, also that thing of like, to my own detriment to begin with, to the point where, like, I was hiding punchlines because I was like, I didn't want the audience to see the punchline come in. I wanted this to be so original.

Right. So, like, I remember, like, in how I was writing it, just everything was so hidden so that I could, like, surprise them in different ways that you're not supposed, you know, you're, like, rejecting all the rules before I've learned them in order to be original. And then actually, you conceding, what I need to do is learn how to do these things and put myself in the shoes of the audience a little bit more and not be so concerned about I have to do what no one else has done. and I can't ever be compared to anyone and all that.

I think that definitely, to begin with, hurt me a bit, you know. I think, like, the other thing that people, why people bring your name up to me is that, like, I talked about jumping through a window, you talked about depression, in, like, your special, which has the best comedy special name that I've ever heard,

which is cold, lasagna, hate myself 1999. I thought he pleased with that. That is a, that is, come on. Yeah, I was very pleased. That's a great. I was so pleased the day I decided to do that.

We know those ones where you know you ever do what you're talking to other comedians and you're dropping stuff in casually but really looking for praise. And you're like, yeah, I sent my new show title away today. It's stupid, man. It's so stupid. It just sounds ridiculous. It's called Coletan.

You hate myself, 1999. Looking at them, waiting for them to tell you that that's brilliant. I think I was pretty insufferable. That's a great one. But I think that that's also why people, Like, I think you and I have the thing in common, which is, like, that's a lot about depression and being suicidal or maybe somewhat suicidal? I'm having the suicidal thoughts, yeah.

Suicidal thoughts. And do you feel like having done that, do you feel like your shows after that, you felt a pressure to just, like, open up to everybody? Yeah, so, like, because that's interesting because I kind of, I love, music, you love music, and like, I look at bands and go like, well, they don't, you know, go in a certain direction and then they're married to that forever. They can, some of my favorite bands will just album to album. I was shocked. Actually, that completely takes it apart.

I know you mean that. But like, and so, like, I was worried about that because I did that show. And then the next one I did, which was like about my relationship with the audience, kind of like just naturally became as well. a bit about mental health because it kind of had to. And I was a bit, yeah, a bit concerned that like, oh, do I have to do this forever? I don't want to do that forever. And so, like, with the show on tour and now, I've consciously not done that really.

Right. I like tried to, I think always just kind of listening to just what you're drawn to and just going, I'm just going to run towards that because I don't think, I don't think they really want me. They might think that they want me to carry on doing what the last show was, but once they see this new one, if I do it well, that should be what they want. I had a thing where at a certain point, so many of my shows had an arc,

that people would be like, this show didn't have an arc. They're like, well, they don't have to have an arc. Yeah, that can get in your head when you're writing sometimes, and you think like, oh, but the last one had this, and this one doesn't have that. Yeah. But even though I don't necessarily...

Sometimes I'll feel like that with other people's where I remember going to see the master and being like, you know, just having there will be blood in my head. Oh, that's interesting. As I sat down to watch it. Right. And then the final scene, I was like, here we go. This is going to be the last film is my favorite final scene in any film ever. So this is going to be something.

Let's see what they do. And then they sit down and they have a conversation and they leave. Right. And I remember going home and saying to my partner, like, what the, what is that ending? I like, the whole film and that ending sucked. Yeah, yeah. And she was like, that's not, it's not trying to make, There Would Be Blood Again.

Right. And the next time I watched it, I was like, I don't know what was wrong with me. But like, it was just, I just wanted it to be what it was. But of course, I've already got There Will Be Blood. I don't need it again. I have that sometimes where like I'm writing my next movie right now. And sometimes I'll see a movie that's so good that I'll just, I'll go, I'll be in despair. I'll be like, oh, no, it's not that.

And sometimes my friends will shake me out of it and be like, right, it's not that. Yeah. Yeah. Of course it's not. It's your movie. That's their movie. This is your movie. Yeah.

How many, do you find, I find out of each show cycle I'm learning the same lessons over again and it's annoying? Yeah. To not go like, you've learned this every time that you just should commit to your own voice and it doesn't matter what other people are doing. Totally. Or anything. But like, you just forget it and have to learn it again. even stuff like delivery and stuff and going like, no, no, you've got to

deliver this faster. Like, you've gone back into doing it too slow again and like, in the last tour you like learn that you have to up the energy when the rooms get bigger or whatever the thing is. Yeah. And like, it is weird how there's those things where a podcast like this is really encouraging for creative people because there are these like, you know, rules that people can like

identify and latch on to, but you're constantly relearning those rules. Oh, yeah. They don't just all stay with you and you've got them with you forever and go, okay, new show, here's everything that I learned before and I'm just going to start from this place. Yeah, I feel like if there's, I hope if there's one takeaway from people listening to this podcast, is that all of us are, as artists are just failing all the time. No, but I do hope that that is the takeaway of this podcast sometimes is like, oh yeah, these people who maybe I like their work or maybe I don't, like, they're also insecure about what they're doing all the time. Yeah. Do you have it, you play drums like really well. Oh, thank you.

Like really well. Like, and you have them as interstitials in the heckling special, which is on HBO now, in Sky there in Britain, but here it's on HBO. It's so good. But how'd you come up with that idea to cut up your special drums? Sometimes it's like, so I think I was doing the show and it was like, you know, the whole idea of the show originally

was that like anything goes, the audience can do whatever they want. So I thought, here we go, it's going to be chaos. And then it wasn't. So I'd written all this material. And I wanted to write a show that they could then ruin if they wanted to. And that was the idea was that I did have a show. I'm not going on with nothing. Right.

And then they can heckle me and we'll see where it goes. So you didn't come in with that. No, I kind of, I remember the first one I did, I was like, I'm basically workshop in material, but you guys can ruin this whenever you like. Is it more common in Britain than here? Because I feel like heckling is not that common here. It's much more common in Britain, yeah. Definitely.

Seen as being more rude here, and I've seen like comics deal with hecklers by just not trying to be funny at all and just telling them you're rude and you're spoiling this for everyone and then everyone applaud it in the comedian. If you did that in the UK, the whole room would turn on you.

Because you're not good enough. Yeah, I had it on a tour, my own tour with my own name on the ticket. I think I mentioned it in one of my shows, but like, and there were two people on the front row who for the whole of the first half kept on shouting out and they were pretty hammered. And in the interval, they were told by the staff,

look, you know, in the second half, you guys have to stop doing this. Everyone else has paid to be here. And you just have to stop. And if you do it again, we are going to escort you out of the venue. And they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. And I went on.

And they heckled me as soon as I went on. And I said, like, now, guys, you've been warned that you're going to get kicked out if you do it once more. That was once more, but I'll just let that one be a freebie and just don't do it again just for the sake of everyone in the room. No one backs me up on it. I carry on going. it again, like two minutes later. I go, okay, but you know what has to happen. You do have to leave now.

Yeah. And they were like completely like they were hearing that for the first time. Right. Like, what are you talking about? Yeah. And I was like, you just have to leave. And security came to get them. And then a lady who wasn't even sitting with them when, are you joking? You're going to kick them out. They've paid for a ticket. And I was like, You've all paid for tickets And they're running the show And she went, they're leaving, we're leaving And the whole front two rows left

No. So it was like, I don't know, it was a smallish venue, it's probably about 25, 30 people got up and they walked out And one of them was a little old lady She was probably in her 70s Was yelling at me, if you can't handle heckles

She never should have got on that stage. Wow. And they all walked out And after the show, I was still on social media at that point. And maybe this is one of the reasons I've come off of it. But I remember firing up my Twitter mentions and they'd all those front two rows

gone to a bar together and took a photograph all of them flipping me off and tweeted it at me. So there was no... That is so rough. Yeah, it was like, oh, that's my own name on the ticket. Do you feel like your persona or like what people's expectations of you are from your fan base limit what you can talk about?

No. I feel like there's anything where you're like, Yeah, they're going to be a little bit pushed by that. No, you know, like, it's always like how you talk about it. I think that, you know, in this new show that I'm doing, there's a few bits well, like, I've never talked about this before. And some of my audience would definitely maybe say, like, oh, yeah, I like to see him because he doesn't do dirty material.

Sure, I've got that before, too. And then, but then actually, they don't, they'd be surprised that if you frame it well and you do it from a different angle, they actually do like hearing that, but it is funny. Yeah. And that's part of the fun challenge of going, like, how do I, like, I've thought of this joke

and, like, you know, I could go up to another comic and go, hey, this would suit you, but actually I could work this into mind. Right. The polarity of clean versus dirty, I feel like often is the wrong one. Yeah. It's almost like the polarity should be, like, thoughtful versus thoughtless.

Uh-huh. You know, it's like, Yeah, yeah. It's like, if it's thoughtful, it can be as dirty as you want it to be. If it's thoughtless, it's like, well, maybe, like, work harder on that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think so. And, like, because you're trying to, like, just think about your comedy voice and

you got who you are and your persona or has to be coming from that, right, in a way that suits all of that, you know. Yeah. And, like, sometimes that, you know, I had started that called Xanya special by coming out and just swearing as much as I could and saying, like, I swear now. even though I'd use that kind of language in previous shows but people just never really clocked it and said he's a clean comedian that's not true but also I don't want people coming to see me who their only criteria is I like clean comedy because that's not a genre or a sense of humor that's just like

I don't know what that is really people just have this predisposed like idea of if you swear on stage, use bad language on stage, then you're lazy, which I don't think is true. Right. So I wanted it to go out of the front and be like, anybody's here because of that. Right, no, totally.

Never come and see me again. But also knowing that that's a funny attitude to have, so not taking that attitude too seriously and making fun of the fact I'm trying to share to those people. I had that happen when I toured my special thinkoff for jokes in like 2015 or something like that. And I curse, but what's funny is I'm cursing. to quote someone else.

Yeah. I'm cursing to quote David O. Russell and whatever. The Muppets and what I cursed by accident and performing with the Muppets. And a lot of people, my agent came to me at one point was like, the word is getting around that you're not clean anymore. And I didn't even know what he was talking about.

Yeah. I was like, this is not even different than what I was doing before. Yeah. And I think that's exciting more than anything. I always talk about Josie Long all the time. I love Josie Long. Yeah, she's like, easily the comic has inspired me the most.

And I remember seeing her do her show, I can't remember when it was, it was like pre-pandemic. And she just suddenly did a sex routine. She never done a routine about having sex before. And she kind of tiptoed into it. And I don't usually speak about this sort of stuff. And I still feel uncomfortable talking about it on stage. But I think this is funny.

So I'm just going to kind of do it. And it wasn't just a routine about having sex. as a routine about having sex while on her period and quite a graphic, so it's so funny to see someone going from never told about sex to doing like a really graphic sex story that was really funny. And as a comic just made me go,

oh, there's absolutely no rules. This is so exciting to see Josie do this and go into this area that we weren't expecting at the start of the show. I love that. And she's treating us like adults. Like her audience aren't a bunch of prudes. And so it was, I remember seeing stuff like that and going, oh, we can do whatever we want one show to the next.

What were you thinking you were at the beginning of your career? I think I started out at the very, very beginning before it was a career. I was like, I loved Josie and Ross Noble and Daniel Kitson and a lot of the comics who were kind of going out and just like seemingly just being themselves with the audience and were all very likable. And I was trying to kind of go out and be super friendly. like Ross Noble goes out and he's just like oh look at you guys this is great and all this

so I was really trying to do that and it wasn't scanning at all like they were kind of sitting there and very forced because they were like we don't think you do think this is great and amazing like we think this is a really shitty bar with seven people in I don't think you really and then I'd have a better one

when I suddenly went you know I'd be trying that at the top and then I'd naturally it just come apart and I'd admit how much I'm hating this and suddenly they're laughing which was a lesson that it was good in those situations and I had to unlearn it later on

when you're being paid more and the audience are there to see you and you can't just stop and say I hate this, this sucks. Right, like you're arriving at the reality of what you were in. Yeah, yeah. So I guess that was the thing of like

definitely trying to be those comics that I liked and then discovering pretty soon that actually how you genuinely feel is funnier Yeah. And try and like steer more towards that. There's an interview in The New Yorker where you said basically I crashed my car when I was 18 and after that I got a bit obsessed with dying

so I started doing a bunch of things to take off my bucket list. What was your relationship to the idea of death before the crash? Yeah. And after the crash and then what is it now? I think like growing up, so growing up being raised Christian and I was like, I think that means you think about death a lot.

Yeah, same. But you're not really, but then also you kind of weirdly don't believe in it as a kid. So I'm thinking about it all the time, but it's not the end. Right. But I am thinking about dying a lot and what happens when you die.

Right. And I'm talking about that and asking a lot of questions to my parents and the people at church. Right. Okay, so where do these people go? And where do we? And like, how do what is everybody going?

Yeah, what if I do this? And then I suddenly get killed and I haven't apologized yet and all this. And like, so I'm thinking about it a lot. And then I remember, I still remember, like, I was 13. And for some reason, I was listening to, my dad had this like cassette and CD playing in one. And I was listening to a cassette.

And I think it was REM's Out of Time album. And there was a song on there, I think called, it was maybe low or something that was very bleak and depressing sounding. And I was just like looking at. the tape going round. And I think I just realized, like, I had my first fleet in thought of, oh, this year's gone quickly.

Sure. And then I was like, this is going really quick. I'm 13. So, this whole, everything else could just go quick. And then I could just like,

and then kind of being like, oh, and I might not, I remember I assumed until that age I would live to 100, that that was how old you lived to? Yeah. So everyone lives to 100. Like everybody. Everyone lives around 100

Yeah yeah come on That's everyone lives 200 We all get to about 100 That's your life And then I was like And it dawned on me The years are going quickly And also I could die

When I'm 70 Yeah And I'm 13 now And it's already going quick And this tape's going around And I'm first For the first time I felt scared of dying

And for the first time I thought like Maybe I don't believe That there's something else But like putting it out of my head And then when I had those I had that car crash and like during that car crash

you know there was this a point where I was just hot on two wheels like this and it was a very small car and I knew that you know if it goes that way I'm not going fast enough to roll so it is just going to go like that and then it went back on its four wheels

but then you know it kind of took about a day and then I remember sitting on the toilet and going like I could just not exist now and then realizing that that's what I believed that I didn't believe in anything else and I did believe

about 19 years old Yeah, so I had to be like, oh, you believe in nothing after you die. Right. So, and then I had six months of not being myself at all. And like walking around in a bit of her days, and no matter what I was doing, it was making me think of, the universe is infinite, you don't understand it, you're going to die, and that will just, what will that be like?

I'll be nothingness, and just everything felt too much and too big. And I was talking to a lot of different people, and then like, you know, eventually got to like a good place with it by kind of refusing to look away from it and discussing it all the time and whatever. And yeah, now I think it's more that thing of any time I do think, you know, and I do try and think about the fact that we're not going to be here forever. Sometimes before going on stage and I'm feeling like this is overwhelming and scary.

Yeah. A kind of good thing to remember and it sounds dramatic, but it's like this isn't going to be, like everything around me will be gone one day. It's right. It'll all be gone. None of this will exist. So this is a miracle. This is amazing that you're going to get to do this in this moment.

And it's not this thing of like it's so sad. It's all going to get taken away. It's more that why should it even be here? Why should stand up even be a thing? Of course. Why should this theater be a thing? You know, and laughter and we can and all of this. And you get to experience this and do it.

Yeah. So rather than kind of going, because definitely for a while, I was like, the tragedy was that it's all going to go, rather than the incredible thing was that it's here in the first place, you know. That's how I feel when I go to like a Knicks game. Like I'm not like a huge basketball fan, but I'm like, what a marvel. Yeah, sure.

Can you even believe this? Yeah, yeah. How good these people are at this game? Yeah. What the hell's going on here? We all get to be here, watch it. Yeah. I'm eating this food.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It is those kind of moments. It is worthwhile to remind yourself. of the marvel of everything sometimes. Yeah, and it's like, it sounds dramatic, but it just like, it does put everything in perspective and it will just like, go like, okay, this isn't such a big deal.

You don't need to worry too much about this, you know. Do you have a pre-show ritual? Yeah, a lot now, because I used to not at all, and it really, it was my downfall at a lot of gigs and it's why I'd throw a lot of gigs. I was going on completely unprepared. So now it's quite extensive now. And yesterday I was very, very, very, very.

nervous before going on my show really wanted to just get on a plane and go home and not be here and uh as in not be in new york not not be alive and um and uh i so i had to do like everything that i would do before again so i had to sit down and like just breathe and then notice five things in the room that i can see hear smell feel all that how's your body feeling checking with your body how are you really feeling with your body how how's that going to affect your show does that mean you've got to be ultra vigilant for this show about not throwing it away because like you know uh you're feeling quite negative already and you're feeling all this so like that's going to affect it so here's what you've got a uh bear in mind when you walk out there and then visualizing the gig not going how i want it to

and uh and then like visualizing how i would like to respond to that so if it's if it's really quiet how do I want to perform? Oh, that's beautiful. And do that. And if they're shouting out, how do I want to perform? And if they're on their phone, so kind of going, what do you want to do in that situation? So this is what you're going to do.

And also remembering the things that I talked to my therapist about like what makes a good gig for me and like what factors. And I was like, so good audience, good venue, me performing well, me being disciplined on stage and me trying something new at some point. And he's and we were like, okay, you can't. control the audience, you can't control the venue. So those two things you just kind of accept before you go out. And then you just remember like, okay, what's the one new thing I'd like to try even if it's just editing a bit? Even if it's saying less words in the section,

let's do that. And then for the rest of it, you're just going, just focus on performing it the way you want to perform it and being disciplined enough to not go off script in a negative way. Definitely in a positive way, great. But like, let's be, let's, not, you know, collapse it. I'm going to cut this into a clip for social media, and I am going to play it for myself before my own shows. Great. I mean, that's the best pre-show ritual I've ever heard of.

It's, I mean, also the one other thing I do, before I did my first ever gig, so I'd done a, uh, I've done a workshop in my hometown that I've been signed up to, like, by someone who knew I wanted to do stand-ups. They sign me up to it and just told me you're signed up to it, just told me you're signed up to do a stand-up comedy workshop and i turned up and it was a guy who i think upon reflection had done maximum 10 gigs as a comedian as on the open mic's hilarious

and was now i was now looking to earn some money cash in yeah cash in on how do you do this yeah i just basically going no one in this this town's done comedy so i can there was three of us who got signed up to it we all got signed up to it by someone else and every week we'd show up and he would bring a 12 pack of beers for himself and not share them. And we would all get up. And he would say, you've got to do 10 minutes stand up every week, new every week's going on it. And we'd get up, we'd do our 10 minutes to the other three people, including him.

And then we'd sit down and he'd either say that was shit or that was funny. And that was the only feedback you got. That's insane. And the three of us would talk about it more together. Yeah. I'd be like, oh, when you said that, because we were like excited and hungry. But I remember before we did our first gig and it was all three of us doing our gig

and it was like a professional compare and opening act and closing act and he had put this together and he just told us before we went on you're setting yourself aside from 99.9% of the population they wouldn't do this and he said what I do before I go on is I just like stretch like that

and make myself just feel nice and big and confident and I remember doing it and I still do that now because not because it makes me feel confident just do that. And I think of him and I think about the 9.9% of the population and the reason why that makes me feel good

I think is just the, again, the perspective rather than the actual I'm confident and I'm better than... It's more, remember that gig you did in that, that very first gig you did in that little bar and that guy who definitely wasn't a comedian. Teach you stand up comedy. You know, remember that.

Remember that guy. And there's no way you should be. here now. Oh, that's great. So it kind of gives you that thing of like going, yeah, I was going to do that. And that gig that I did, that first gig, I'm sure it's the same for all comics. If I had never done it again, that would have been one of the biggest deals of my life that I got up and did stand-up comedy in a little bar in my hometown.

It would have been huge. And so like remembering like how much of a big deal that was. Yeah. And then looking at this show and like I'm stressing about all this career stuff or whatever or sometimes, you know, it's a mental. health thing but like you're going it's still look at you know that and now this yeah and it does make you feel like you get you gain that perspective a bit more rather than going someone's going to just feel like oh this is going to suck or what's the point of this gig or

whatever and actually you go you're forgetting like where this sits in the grand scheme of things and for you personally who are you jealous of who am I jealous of um oh do you know what I was saying it in the car on the way here, talking to my partner. I literally said it out loud. I never say this about anyone. I went, I'm really jealous of Cameron Winter. Ha! ha! As I was talking to her on my phone.

Who isn't? So, like, I was like, you know, Paul Thomas Anderson, I've filmed him live now. I know. And all this. And I can go, you all. Yeah, yeah. So, like, yeah.

But I was like, her response to it, she's like, oh, are you? and I had to be like, not his life, like, his career, not his life, I want my life with you. I don't want, I want my life with you. I don't want, Cameron Winters. I don't want Cameron Winters. I don't know what's going on there with him personally. I definitely don't want to be in a band.

Right. But I was jealous of his solo career. Sure. I'm like, oh, that looks, but then I said to her, but then there's that thing as well where you idealise it because I was like, yeah, you know, it gets to do this, this music is like, just touching somebody people's lives now in ways that they can't even put into words. And, you know, he's not walking on stage and getting people shouting, do the Ketman Town FC song at him.

And she said, James, when we went to see him, someone literally heckled turn around to him. Amazing. And I was like, oh, yeah, I forgot that when we saw him, and he had he was back to the audience playing the piano and he was backlit, and it was this, you know, he's performing it. And everyone was like on tenter hooks. Someone was like, turn around! Yeah.

And he kind of like tried to brush it off and then they heckled him again. And like, I was like, oh yeah, I kind of... You witnessed it. I was there. And yet, you blocked out that part for the idealized version of his life. Completely. I saw Paul McCartney do a Q&A and get heckled by someone

he wasn't sat aside with his answers. What did the person say? They said, try and answer all the questions properly, Paul. Oh, come on. It's Paul McCartney. That's outrageous. It's poor. Cartney in 2022.

That is outrageous. Doing a Q&A in a 2000 seater. Wow. And someone... Answer the... That's a very British heckle. Yeah. Answer the questions properly, Paul.

Yeah, too short an answer. What is the time you remember feeling pure joy? I mean, definitely, I remember going to... There's a theme park in England called Alton Towers, which my parents took us to us a surprise. and we were kids. And all day, it was just incredible. I loved it so much.

We're going on these roller coasters. It's like the theme of it is just nothing. Alton Towers, they don't really lean into the theme. And it's quite bleak when you go as an adult. But as a kid, all these roller coasters were incredible. Something about it. Yeah. I remember buzzing so much of it. And I remember being in a queue for a ride we'd already been on, me and my dad.

Yeah. And I looked up at him and I was like, Dad, this has been the best day of my life. Wow. And he went, you're nine. what's the best piece of advice someone's given you that you used? I mean, again, I feel like Josie Long did tell me in the early days to just experiment as much as you can before people know who you are and they can't judge you.

Yes. Amen. I definitely, as an open spot, was like, okay, one gig to the next. I just do whatever I'm feeling on the way there. And I feel like she would say this now as well. It's like that actually doesn't need to stop with when people don't. And now I think she would say, well, I know that I was talking to her the other day about her new special that she's filming. She's absolutely still experimenting and doing stuff that people wouldn't expect of us. That's great.

So you have a podcast called Off Menu, and you talk about sort of dream meals. Yeah. Can you say what yours is? Because I feel I mean, you must have covered it before. Yeah, I haven't heard one where you talked about it. Yeah, so I've done quite a few on there. Every time it's like 100 episodes, we'd like do it. our own and stuff. My dream main course is always this beef Wellington I had in Amsterdam.

And I just keep on choosing that every time, even though I should vary it up. But genuinely, it's not been beat yet. It is pretty amazing. Although the really annoying thing is we had Robert De Niro on the podcast. Did you really? Yeah, we did. And that's not annoying. How on earth would you book Robert De Niro? It's bonkers. So basically, I mean, you'll know, like you kind of get solicitations. Some of his PR are like, here's all the people we've got. And you go, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you never get the huge ones, but whatever. Right. And it just kept on being that his name wasn't going away from this list as it got smaller.

And we were like, well, clearly that's not going to, that's an oversight. And then on the day, we were like in this hotel ready to interview him going like, surely he's not going to show up. This is ridiculous. And then the PR team came in and they were like, we love off menu. We're like, ah, this is why. This is why. Because there's two young guys who were like, you know, in their 20s who listened to the podcast. us and they've just told him.

And when we interviewed him, it became clear that he kind of does live his life with, he turns to the people around him and say, what would you recommend? Right. And then he does it. So, like, all his food choices, he couldn't choose his dream meal because he just went, I just have whatever's good. And we were like, no, but imagine you can just have whatever starter you want. He went, oh, I just have whatever, whatever, because he, yes, how he lives his life.

And it is actually quite insightful. Yes. That his life is going into restaurants, sitting down. And he says, bring me the best thing. And they do that. So, like, yeah. So, like, that was what that was like. But when he was on, he didn't want to choose a main course.

And he was like, whatever's good. And we say, how about this beef Wellington I had in Amsterdam? He said, yeah, if it's good, I have that. I mean, like, it is good. It's good. He's like, yeah. And Ed kind of went, maybe we can switch the beef for, like, Wagyu beef for you. So it's even nicer.

And he went, yeah, that sounds good to me. And then Ed goes on a European tour doing his stand-up and he books himself in at this restaurant that does the Beef Wellington. And because they've heard that episode, they make Ed a Wagyu Wellington. Oh, wow. Which is even better than the one that I had. It's my dream.

That's impressive. Wow. Do you have any material you're working on that's like half-baked or sometimes we work out material in the show or we just talk through it really? Yeah, so at the minute, because the point where I am with my show at the, minute, nothing's really that half baked now. It's always like tweaked and stuff. There's a bunch of stuff that didn't make it in. But also, the one, I tell you, the one that I always, every single

time I start a new show, there's a bit of material. And I think it's because I don't like just like ditching stuff that I've got a good feeling about. And I think when I was an open mic, so when I was like very, very first gigs ever, I was 23. And I had a bit that I was like, this is going to crush. Everyone's going to absolutely relate to this. This is great observational. material. And I went on and I would just say, and this went badly every time. So I know that you don't feel pressure to laugh, but just so you know, there's no pressure to laugh at this. It never works. So I would go on and be like, hey, do you remember when you were in school and you didn't have pubes yet, but you told everyone that you did? And there's nothing. And I was

like, no, I'm pretty sure that's what everyone did at school. And then I, I think, I was. I don't. I I tried it so many times as an open mic comedian. I just throw it in at so many gigs and they're like, hmm, okay. And then like, every single time I had a new show that I was going to take to Edinburgh in the early stages, Pubes was in there. Yeah. Go on, say that, nothing. Now, because I did speak to someone about it, because I think I mentioned it on my podcast,

and Ed was like, I didn't do that when I was in school. And I don't remember people doing that. my school. Right. And I was like, right. So in my school, it was a thing. And this is why I thought it was an observation. It's not just because, like, I did it. Everyone at my school talked about how many pubs they had. So, like, it was a huge thing in my year. Yeah. People would be like, I've got so many pubs. And, like, just like, oh, sometimes there's so many pubs and, like, I just don't know what to do with them. Or there's so many of them. And, like, I remember it being a huge thing where people would brag and people would go, how many pubes you guys? Oh, so many

pubes. And like, it was a thing in my school. I think I'm with Ed. I don't think it was a thing when I was growing up. But I also, like, when you say it as a joke, I get it. I believe you and I enjoy it. I'm like, that's fun. Yeah. Well, I think the thing is more, you know, just thinking about it in more recent years, is just to tell them what my school was like. And that it is my school. No, of course. This is, I'm kind of saying up top, this is none of your schools I'm about to talk about. Yes. None of you grew up with this.

But I want you to know, this was real in my school. Yeah. And we all used to just boast about how many pubes we had in my school year, specifically. I don't think it was even ever school years. Yeah. But my school year, we were obsessed with who had the most pubs and who was like, you know, the most mature. You could also go the other way with it, which is like, which is like, remember how in middle school? and then you start with that

and then you go into a bunch of other specific things that there's no way it was true of that. Sure. Yeah, yeah, just take it further. Yeah, yeah. They go more and more just outside the realms of like reality. Yeah. I remember one of the girls in my year

just being like so many pubes. It's crazy how many pews are going, you guys don't even realize. And then a guy, so he would have been 13, just says to her, oh, it says to the whole table, actually I prefer when women are completely shaved down there.

He's 13. And I remember all of us being like, what the fuck? Like, all of us like, we're lying about how many pews we've got, but you're weird. That's really unsettling that you've got a preference.

Yeah. At 13 already, he was like one of those kids who's had a computer in his room immediately. I remember one joke I wrote years ago that I've never, you know what, I haven't put it on stage, but I'll try it,

which is like, I remember like in I think it was like fourth grade the principal would ring the bell for recess and then she let someone in class do it like and I always was like I want to ring the bell but they never let me ring the bell it was always like this girl like Maria Bononi

and then like one day it was like eighth grade and like Maria Bononi I found out like had had sex like it was something big I was like I still haven't rung the bell Yeah, that's great. I'll try.

I think I will try it because I kind of like it as an idea. Because it's so true, by the way, of that age. That age is devastating for like what people are doing and what people aren't doing. Yes. And what you've done and what you haven't done. But especially for people who go on to be performers and want to be performers. You want to ring the bell because you're, there would have been people in that class who are like, the last thing I want in my life is to be the person ringing that bell.

You're absolutely right. And you're like, I want to ring it so much. And Maria Bononi is like, absolutely killing me right now. And I can't leave she gets to do it. She doesn't even know how lucky she has it. Yeah, no, she's your camera winter. She's having this great life.

She's my camera winter. And you want to be her. Yeah. But not everyone else in that class. I have like a bit in the heckler's show where like, is like, yeah, that's like me crying because I wasn't being chose to go up in front of the class. Yeah, yeah.

And not realizing that's not everyone else's experience. Other people are sitting there going, And the last thing I want to do is get picked. The last thing I want to do is get picked. But you want to ring the bell. No, you're right. And who knows what Maria Bononi is even doing now? And by the way, you're pointing out that not everyone's, everyone to ring the bell, is news to me.

Yeah, is news. Like, I'm not, I didn't even know that. And you know what? I bet Maria Bononi, because she got that out of her system, is not doing a career in performing arts or anything now. No, no, I don't think so. But you, as the person who didn't get to do it, got a fire in your belly. Yeah. And now here you are writing this material to say,

the stage. I wrote this down, which is I was in line at a pharmacy down the street the other day and there's ten people in line and there's a woman behind me on speakerphone. There's ten of us in line. We're crouching. It's the winter. Yeah. And she's on speakerphone and she says I wrote it

down. She goes, karma's a bitch. Yeah. She goes, karma's a bitch. Karma's going to come right back at you. And I thought, I hope that's true. Yeah. Because I think you might end up next to someone shouting in your ear while waiting for anxiety medication. Yeah.

Karma's a bitch. Karma's a bitch. Sometimes just hearing those people just say stuff. When I was like really early on as a comic, I was on the train and heard. And I tried to turn this into material at the time. But I just didn't know at all where to go with it. Sometimes you overhear it and there's nothing beyond what you overheard. Yeah.

And it was just these group of like women my age, like early 20s, saying to this guy, we are not lying to you. you, we saw a hedgehog on a cat's back. I love that. Going down the street. I'm not lying to you. We are not lying. We all saw it.

I wonder, though. That sounds, I mean, I would say the tenacity with which that was said makes me believe it somewhat. Do you find when you do this podcast and you try out your new stuff? What's it like when you then go on stage and you do the stuff you were originally talked about in the podcast? It's so funny. I talked about this recently. because we just did the 200th episode with John Laney, and it's better.

Wow. I always thought for years, you cannot, you can't burn your material, you shouldn't burn your material by sharing it with people early. But actually, what happens is it's this cult, the people who listen to this podcast, is a cult group of people.

It's not everybody. It's not all the people in the audience. It's like 10% of the audience. Yeah. So for 90% of the audience, it's all new. 10% of the audience, who are listening every episode, yeah, they know, like, a version of it.

They know an early version. They know a middle version. Sometimes they know later version. But they're kind of like, I get emails all the time. Messages are like, I really like seeing the stages. Yeah, yeah.

Like, that's part of it. And that's how I feel when I watch comics. I don't know if you have this, when you watch other comics. I like the early versions. Yeah, yeah. I love seeing comics develop a show. Sometimes, yeah, you do get to this, like,

see certain comedians at different stages of a show. spaced out. Yeah. It is great to see what stays, what goes, and what gets whittled down. The final thing we do is working it out for a cause.

Is there a non-profit that you like to support and we will contribute to them and then link to them in the show notes? Friends of the Earth? Friends of the Earth. Yep. I mean, just like any environmental charity at the minute is like

incredibly important to give to support. Friends of the Earth is F-O-E-D-O-R. Yeah. The best thing is that, you know, you can feel very, there's a lot of, like, climate anxiety, and you can feel very helpless with all of it. And it's nice to, like, sign up to something like that, get regular emails of, like, you can sign this petition, you can do this, you know, donate to this, whatever. And it's quite a regular way of being able to actually engage with a problem that is obviously very overwhelming.

ominous and massive, yeah. We will contribute to them. We'll link to them in the show notes. James, thanks so much for coming. It's such an honor to have you here. Thanks for having me, man. Working it out because it's not done

but working it out because there's no one. That's going to do it for another episode of working it out. You can follow James Acaster. James Acaster.com. He's not on social media, but he does have a website. All of his tour dates are there.

He'll be touring all over the UK this spring and summer. Check out berbiggs.com to sign up for the mailing list to be the first to know about upcoming shows. And you can get the text alerts by texting Burbigstein 91744-7-4-4-7-1-5. You can watch the full video of this episode on our YouTube channel at Mike Brubiglia, subscribe, because we're posting more and more videos. Don't miss it.

Our producers are myself, along with Peter Salomon, Joseph Barbiglia, Mabel Lewis, and Gary Simons. Sound Mix by Ben Cruz, supervising engineer, Kay Polinsky, special thanks to Jack Anzenoff and bleachers for their music. They have a beautiful new song out this week called You and Forever. I love that song. Man, beautiful song. I cannot wait for that record. thanks as always to my wife, the poet, Jayhope Stein, and our daughter, Una, who built the original

radio fort made of pillows. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. If you enjoy the show, please rate us and review us on Apple Podcasts. There's so many ratings and reviewings. We really appreciate it. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. Tell your friends, tell your enemies. Tell Robert De Niro. I know one of you out there. Knows Robert De Niro. Hey, Bob. You can call Bob. Bob. As long as you're taking recommendations on whatever is good. Check out this podcast called Mike Barbigley's Working It Out. It's where Mike Bribigley works out jokes and talks about the creative process with other comedians and creatives. You can listen to it while eating the Beef Wellington that James A. Cassie recommended.

Also, Mike Bribigli does a cameo and your Meet the Fokker sequel, but you probably don't know that. You're not really in that scene. Anyway, thanks everybody. We're working out. We'll see you next time.