Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 205. Taylor Tomlinson: Hope No One Filmed That

Episode Date: March 9, 2026

Working It Out all-timer Taylor Tomlinson returns to the podcast this week on the heels of the release of her new Netflix special, “Prodigal Daughter.” Mike and Taylor talk through what they do when they get stuck on a bit, what they’d do if they found out they were dating their cousin, and how being a stand-up is sometimes just telling 300 people a secret you weren’t ready to share. Plus, lots of new jokes about sex dreams, lovebombing, and baby names. Please consider donating to the Palestine Children's Relief Fund Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You ever do a bit about something personal to you, and it's working, but you realize while they're laughing, oh, I'm not ready to talk about this yet? 100%. And I just told 300 people. And I hope no one filmed it. That is the voice of the great Taylor Tomlinson. This is a really exciting episode. Taylor is back for her third appearance on this podcast. One of my favorite comics has a new special on Netflix right now called, You should go watch it right now and then listen to this episode. It'll get more out of it.

Always love talking to Taylor. We have a great chat today. By the way, thanks to everyone who has signed up for working it out premium on Apple Podcasts, aka the Bibelibilia Familia. And if you sign up on Apple Podcasts, it's five bucks a month and you get no ads on any of the episodes. Also, you get a bonus episode every few weeks. And the one we put up recently is me and Gary and Mabel, two of our producers and I taking apart one of my recent comedy seller sets. And we talk about ways to punch it up, where it could go from here, what I'll probably take out.

And it's really, really in the weeds on kind of jokes. And honestly, like I've never released audio of unfinished work before. So it's an experiment. Working it out premium on Apple Podcasts. No ads, bonus episodes. We really appreciate you supporting the show. I also have some tour dates coming up with John Malaney. In May, I'll be in Colorado Springs, as well as Eugene Oregon.

Those are both super cool towns, as well as Bend, Oregon. That's another super cool town. Again, I'm supporting John Malaney on those dates. Also, I will be in Los Angeles, one night only, May 6th at the Wilshire Ebel Theater. It's a beautiful little theater. It's Mike Barbiglia and Friends. You'll basically see my new 40, 45 minutes of material. with some friends, working out new jokes,

and it should be great. It should be a super, super fun night of comedy. So get your tickets at berbigs.com. And if you want to be the first to know about any of my tour dates, you can sign up for my mailing list as per the last 20 years, but also we now have text message alerts. Text berbigs to 917-444-7150. Burbigs to 917-44-7-1-50 to be the first to know about upcoming shows.

This is a great conversation with Taylor Tomlinson today. We talk about religion. Her special prodigal daughter deals with a lot of that stuff. She started doing comedy at the church. We talk about honesty and comedy. We talk about family. We talk about talking about your family on stage and how delicate that can be. Enjoy my conversation with the great Taylor Tomlinson.

Your special is so good. Thank you. That's really nice. And I do care about your opinion. I do. There's not a lot of people. You are one of the people I was like

I'm like, oh, it's great. I mean, it's like a masterclass in joke writing. Oh my God. I think so. Nice. Do you free write? Like, do you go, okay, I'm going to spend a half hour today with a notebook? What I do is I will have ideas, you know, throughout the day for weeks or whatever.

Sure. But I usually have ideas that I'll write in like a note on my phone. and then those will sort of accumulate. And then when I have a minute, I will write them all down in a notebook. And then I'll go through all of those. Like, it's usually just one line or like one idea. And then I'll go through all of those and whittle it down to stuff that I think I can expand upon. What passes the test?

Like, for example, you have a joke in your special about essentially being a toxic girlfriend in a relationship for like 10 years or your 20s or whatever. Yeah, yeah. But it's like, how do you, with that bit, how do you go like from, that's an idea I'm thinking about to like, I'm going to throw that on stage. Is that the ashes one? It's the one where you go. I wrote down the exact phrase. Or was it the, oh, was it the cousin fight? Oh, here's my favorite line. I was laying on the couch with my boyfriend and we weren't fighting and I thought that was weird. Oh, yeah. That's like one of my favorite lines in the special. Really? That was weird. I thought that was weird. So I said if you found, out we were cousins, would you break up with me?

Yeah. And I was just thinking, like, a couple questions about that. One is, like, how do you go? Okay, that's a bit. And then also, like, what's the truth level? What's your truth code on your own jokes? Well, I think the most that I will bend the truth is if I want to talk about something that happened to me, but I don't want to say it was me. I'll say it happened to a friend.

Sure. Or a friend of mine said that. Yeah, a friend. A friend has gotten me through a lot of premises I wanted to do. Of course. And a friend said this, and it's just in your own brain. But that joke specifically, that was something I really asked a boyfriend. That's like completely 100% true.

And I did text a bunch of my friends. And they all said, well, do we have to tell anybody? Do we have to tell anybody? And I said, no. And they said, okay, well, then we wouldn't have kids, but we wouldn't break up and we wouldn't tell anybody. And I texted like three couples. That's a majority of what people said. I texted three, my three closest friends who were all engaged or married.

and that's what they all said. Not one person said otherwise. You know what that tells me? It's hard out there. It's hard out there. But then the next weekend, like a couple days later, I was at the airport with Dustin. We were going on the road.

And I told him about that fight. And I go, how crazy is this? Because Dustin's been married to Melissa for 20 years. And tours with you a lot. And towards me a lot. Dustin Nickerson, very funny. And he goes, you're so wrong about this. Don't ever say that on stage.

That's hilarious. He goes, you're so wrong. I go, you're telling me that if you found out Melissa was your cousin, you have three kids, they're all fine. You find out right now. That's interesting. You would divorce her. He goes, absolutely.

I go, what if you found out she was a murderer? And he goes, she had her reasons. I go, that's fine. You're okay if she's a murderer. He goes, yeah, I'd go visit her in jail. I'm sure she has a good explanation for it. But he was so not on board with the cousin thing. And so then I wanted to prove to Dustin that it would work on stage.

And I wanted to see what other people. people would think. So then I put it on stage. And when it worked, I was like, I told you. He's also dodging with the murderer thing, I think. Because he's like, I'd visit her in jail. No, she's not in jail. In the scenario, she's out and living with you.

And it's your secret that she is a murderer. But that's the thing he would turn her in. He goes, I would turn her in, but I would visit her. I call bullshit on that. I know. That's what he said that. He turned her in. He might have changed his mind by now.

This was a couple years ago. We will hold him to it. We will be holding him to it. So, okay, it's funny. The cousin thing. Yeah, real fight. I mean. That's the thing.

You don't know. I'm not saying if you meet someone and find out they're your cousin. Right. Of course you break up then. Of course. But if you're in love and you've been together for a while. And to be clear, a lot of cousin couples out there. There's a lot of them.

There really is. And it's, we don't want to be. to lose that audience. And you know what? And this is my bad for asking someone I had only been with for like six months or something. I had been with that person for that long. So he was right to be like, we would break up. Right. But I think I just knew that person probably didn't like me as much as I liked them. And so I was just testing it. I like that. I like that. One of the reason I'd like that area in the special is like it's an admission. Yeah. Like what do you think is the most toxic thing you did in those years in a relationship. Oh my gosh, so many things.

Is there anything you couldn't even make into a bit because there's no humor in it? In my 20s? Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I like don't even know where, I mean, the most toxic thing I did and I did this in multiple relationships is I would break up with people a lot and then get back together. I did that. I did that in like two relationships in my 20s, like two of my like longest, most significant relationships. I was breaking up and getting back together. Fear of abandonment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fear that they would do it to you? Yeah, I think just like a fearful avoidant type of stuff. And it's something I'm really embarrassed about, but I definitely did it over and over. Your dad doesn't watch your stuff. You don't think. I have no idea. You're not in debt, right,

you don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I bet he secretly does. I have no idea. If I was that strange for my daughter and she was making these big comedy, specials, I feel like I'd peek. You know, there's... I'd peek, that's funny. You know who watched it the first day it came out is my grandma, and she texted me and she said, I watched

her special last night, and it was great, and I laughed a lot, and Jesus loves you. Sweet. And she said, sorry, I couldn't help it. And I thought that was so nice. And he does. And he does. And... Supposedly. I know, of course. Again, we're not trying to lose any part of the audience. This is not fact-checked. But when I was at her...

her house the last time visiting her, we were going through Netflix trying to watch something. And my last special was in her, like, recently watched. It was like five deep. And I was like, oh my gosh, you watched it? She goes, yeah, of course, I've watched it a couple times. And I was like, and I just don't, you know, you never know. Who knows? With your family. It was true. Especially when they're like more conservative. Who's to say if they want to see that? Like, I don't, I don't think my grandpa's watched all of them. I think he's seen clips. but it's not like I'm offended by this. It's just not his thing.

No, totally. That's how I feel about my parents. They don't really watch my stuff. And I'm like, yeah, it's not their sense of humor. Not your stuff. Not really, no. Really? Not really, no.

That's interesting, because you're classier than I am. As a comedian. I don't think I'm classier. I don't think I'm classier. But I think it's just too, in no pun intended, it's too close to home. Like, it's just about me growing up and all that. just like, I don't know. You're like a grown-up now, though.

I know. Is that crazy? When I met you, you were kind of a kid. 100%. When did I meet you? I mean, so early. I just remember when you, I mean, you're for special. You were like 24, right?

I was 25. I was 26 when it came out. Right, quarter life, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it is funny. But you're a kid. I was a kid, yeah. 25, or 25 years old?

I think we met then. 32's like a person. You had 32's full person. Yeah, I'm like the same age as everyone now. You're this. It's really cool. That's right. Not statistically, but I know what you mean.

Yeah. It's really nice because I think I always kind of felt in my head and heart that I was like 30. And then I hit 30 and I was like, oh, it all matches. Well, it's funny. Like you were a prodigy of sorts. And now you're a person who does this. Right. Yeah.

Well, it's so funny because there'll still be comments about my age in art. and stuff where people go, young upcoming person. They'll go, oh, and she's only 32 and she has this many Netflix specials, you know. Like, people still, they want to reference your age for as long as it's surprising compared to the amount of success you have. Yeah, yeah, for sure. You know what I mean? I'm sure you've had this too since you got on Letterman so early. They tried to run with that with me and it never stuck.

It never stuck. They're like, this young guy, you've never heard of him. You still haven't heard of him. That was the narrative. Was it? It never went wide. I heard, well, I was telling you before we got on that I just listened to your Leon Morgan episode and she said something about, oh, I wish I had popped when I was younger. And you said, same here any day now.

And that was a joke, right? You're not like, I haven't made it. No, I'm joking. Okay, good. I'm just making sure. Yeah, yeah. No, I'm good. Okay, great.

I was like, you know you're a big comedian, right, Mike? Because sometimes people don't see themselves clearly in this business. And I would hope. And it's nothing is more upsetting than when people you look up to as like one of the people is like, yeah, no, just not quite, didn't quite get the things I wanted and I'm not quite where I want to be. And you're like, oh, no. What? It never goes away. Well, A, I'll answer that in two parts.

A, it does never go away. Oh, no. But B, I think that the realization, you know, at 47 is just like, you start to go like, oh, the little shows are the shows. Yeah. You know what you mean? You go to the comedy cellar and you do a few 15 minutes sets and go, this is it. Yep.

It's not necessarily the Chicago theater, 3,000 people. Yeah. Or Carnegie Hall. Like, it actually is, you know, it could be a little bit. bar show with 15, 20 people. It's like, no, that's it. That's actually it. That's not preparation for something else. That is the thing. Yeah. That's why I've been so excited to come back and talk to you because I'm like, we're going to talk about stand up. Yeah, yeah, totally. And I just feel like, I mean, did you see that Jason Zineman article that came out after they gave the Golden Globe to Ricky Jervais?

Yeah, that was interesting about how it was like there's a lack of respect for standup. Yeah. And I really feel that way. I think there's a real. lack of respect for stand-up. And it's so weird to be like, I spent my whole, I spent half my life getting good at this thing that I think is like the hardest, best thing to do. And there's a lot of people in this business

who are just like, oh yeah, you just talk. Okay, well, we, you know, it's like so weird. It's just, that's always been baked in, though. Like when I came up in the 90s, I would say there was even less respect. Oh, of course, there's like more respect than there's ever been. Yeah, yeah. And I'm still like, do you guys know?

how hard this is and how impressive this is and how lucrative this is if you get good at it. Yeah. It's so interesting to me the things that people place value on in like show business. Oh, yeah. And just the seeing how much money people spend on people's perception of them. Well, they place value on visibility. Yeah. And visibility is kind of worthless.

But the right kind of visibility because if you're going to be, going viral all the time for doing stand-up, they're not necessarily placing a lot of value on that. Oh, you're right. That's true. Visibility at the right places. That's right. Looking the right way. That's right. Yeah. But it's weird. It's like, in some ways, I like that art profession is low-class. Yeah. Because you have to really like it. You do have to really like it. Because otherwise, what's the point? Yeah.

You have to like what the, what's happening. Yeah. Which some days you don't. But I am. Some days I don't. I mean, do you? You ever have days you go, ah, what am I? What is this exactly?

I think I have days that I feel like going on stage in front of people is kind of crazy. I agree. Oh, what are you doing up here? Exactly. Like, I feel like that. But I always like doing it. Yeah. And I, that thing you're talking about of, oh, me on stage doing 15 minutes.

when I came up with an idea at 4 o'clock and now I'm trying it at 8 and it's kind of working and I'm figuring it out. Like when you see people who get big as stand-ups or even do stand-up for a little while and then become actors or whatever else and get into other things, you go, oh, I guess they didn't like that part. Totally. Because this is the part I like. I had one the other night where I was doing a set and someone walked out. During your set? Yeah, yeah. Because of you?

Yeah. You sure it was your fault? Yeah, yeah. because they talked to the manager. They didn't complain about me. They were just like sensitive subject. Oh, what was it? Because it's what I'm going through.

I don't want to say. Oh, you don't have to say. It's like you could guess. It's one of like four topics where people are going through the thing. Yeah. But it's like, it's hard because you just go like, I stand by it. Right. But also they're not wrong.

Right. And that is a challenging thing about being a standup, I think. Yeah. Is that you actually are intentionally talking about taboo things. Yeah. And so sometimes you're like, oh my God, I'm the person talking about this. Yeah. This is crazy.

Yeah. You ever do a bit about something personal to you and it's working, but you realize while they're laughing, oh, I'm not ready to talk about this yet. 100%. And I just told 300 people. And I hope no one filmed it. But like I said something really, really personal. And it works and it's unfortunate that I can't do this joke yet.

A lot of times, my wife, Jenny, is a poet. And she always describes those as, like, write them in the notebook. Yeah. Come back in 10 years. Yep. Because usually, like, your life shifts. And then that was in the past. And the people are different.

And they're on the other side of it. Yeah. But it's like, yeah, there's, I have a lot of those. Yeah. I have a lot of those, like, I mean, like, I think one of the best pieces of advice I've heard about stand-up is, is, tell the truth. Because I feel like when you're telling the truth, the joke's part figures itself out.

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's important, even more important than getting all the details of a story right, it's important to be representing how you actually feel about something. I agree. Which the reason I thought you were talking about the Ashes joke in the special is because halfway through that joke,

the first half of the joke is, you know, I wouldn't, want if I was married to someone who had a dead spouse, I wouldn't want their ashes in our house like all the time. And then halfway through the joke, I go, I don't really feel that way anymore. I felt that way when I was younger. Right. And I was, the joke worked. So I wanted to keep doing it. But I was like, this isn't true to who I am anymore. This is just a funny thought I had when I was much younger that I've turned into a bit, but it's not who I am. So then I had to write a joke about how it wasn't how I felt anymore.

I think that's a great idea. Yeah. And it turned into like one of my favorite jokes in the special and all because I was like, well, I can't lie. I can't misrepresent myself. I think that's great. And yeah, I love that joke. And I love that idea and joke writing is like,

and even just in storytelling, like, Ira Glass always says this thing, which is like, what's the story and then how do you feel about the story? And it's like when I get stuck on a bit, it's like, well, how do I feel about the thing? Yeah. Yes. I get a certain way, it's like, well, if you don't feel a certain way about it, then kind of

who cares? Why should they care about it? Right. If you don't care about it. And that's like a great way to come up with material when you're stuck. I feel like if you just go, what do I feel really strongly about? Yes. Big or small.

Yes. But going back to what you said about like, oh, this on a Tuesday night doing 15 minutes is the thing. I said this to someone. I was doing some interview about something. And I think I even said, I was like, this is like my least favorite part like putting out the special yeah like this is kind of like it's still fun but it's the worst part of the whole process right and the best part is right after

you're done promoting the thing you did and now you get to start over with nothing yeah and just go up and be like is this is this something okay kind of chuckle all right yeah yeah and then like the high of doing a new hour for the first time and being like oh my gosh it's coming together and And it's like that's the best part up until you're kind of on autopilot for like the last couple months before you tape. Yeah. The first part, the first part is like a high wire act. Yes.

And the second part is like there's a net. The wire is secure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you're like, yeah, I'm walking across this thing. Yeah. Do you ever have people walk out of your shows? Because I feel like you talk about religion so much.

You're not disrespectful, but it definitely like rides the line. Right. I mean, those early, like, I remember I was working this hour out in Vegas when I was like, when I had like 40 minutes, you know? And like, like, I think we did have people walk out of that because it was like, you know, there's older people at a casino is pretty conservative. And like, honestly, sure, I get that. This isn't, you know, this isn't what you thought.

You maybe saw my face and went, oh, you're on CBS. Like, at the time, like, I get it, you know? It can't be mad about it. Right. And yeah, I think my last hour was a lot broader. And if you maybe only saw that and then you came to this, you might be like, what? This is pretty different, you know? Yeah, for sure.

I had that when I did thank God for jokes where I was, it was on the heels of my girlfriend's boyfriend. I was doing thank God for jokes. And then people go, now he curses. That's cool. I was like, oh, now he curses? I didn't know I wasn't cursing me. I know. I was like, you were cursing, weren't you?

I thought so. But you give, you're giving clean comedian. I guess so, yeah. That's what I mean about the classy thing. Yeah, I look, I look classy. You look classy. And sometimes you just look wholesome. I mean, people used to think,

I don't think anyone thinks I'm clean anymore, but people thought I was clean longer than I thought that they would. And I was clean for like five years. Yeah. It was just, you know. Oh, so you did flip. Oh, yeah. I was super clean.

You just made a decision. I was super clean until I was 22 because I was doing churches. Yeah. Yeah. Even when I was doing mostly clubs and colleges and stuff, I was still doing a church here and there. Do church, like, clergy pastors ever come up to you and talk to you about connecting with your comedy? Now? Yeah.

Yeah, I'll get messages from people being like, I'm a pastor and I thought it was hilarious. Oh, that's good. Or, yeah, or like, we're really Christian. I've talked to people at shows in the crowd that were pastors or youth group leaders or. or worship leaders or whatever else. And obviously those are like very cool Christians. Yeah, those are the cool Christians that you referenced in the special. Yeah, who were like, we thought it was damn good, you know.

But yeah, I mean, I'm sure there are lots of people who are like, this was not what I wanted to see. But if you're super conservative and religious, you're probably not coming to see me. I don't think at this point. Right, right, right. That's not. That's, yeah. The, what is your, what's your obsession currently? Like, what do you feel like the next special is trending towards in terms of topics? The next special, I think I want to do really clean. Really? Yeah, just because I'm getting kind of like, I don't know. I just kind of want something challenging. And I can't think of anything else. That's interesting. That would be challenging. And also probably just talking so much about how I started. Yeah. In this last hour, it's. It's. made me think about it a lot and it's made me think about, you know, how it was like a different way of writing and like a challenge. And I think there's also something to be said of like every other special I kind of go like more personal, more broad. Yeah. Personal more broad. Yeah. And so

this one was super personal. And now I'm like, okay, we'll go broad again. And I'm like, maybe we'll just do like sort of clean and observational and see if I can do that for an hour. But I don't know. Maybe I won't be able to, but I'd like to. I know you mean like there is a tempting, there is something alluring about playing clean because you're like, oh, you're taking away all of the easier ingredients. Right. It's like you're cooking a meal without cheese and without, I don't know, olive oil or meat. And you're like, and make something.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, okay. If for no other reason, then to just work on my vocabulary. Yeah, yeah. It makes you look up synonym. You're like, synonym for fuck. You know, you're like, I got to think of something. Totally.

Because if you're going to say something instead of fuck, it's got to be almost like poetry. I think you're the most prolific comic I can think of. I think four specials in like six years? Yeah, I think so. But I'm not agreeing with most prolific comic. I'm agreeing with the number of specials and the number of years. But that's like kind of what most people do that, right? Every two years.

What would you tell your quarter life crisis self? Double your meds. I'm like, it's going to take you another year or so to figure that out, but to start right now. Wow. And then also probably just like, you know, it's tough because I was going to say that I would tell her, don't worry. it's going to work out and it's not a fluke. But then maybe it wouldn't have worked out because I wouldn't have had the drive.

I always think about that. Do you? Yeah, I always think about that. Is the worry helping? Yeah. People always say it's not. You know, all the motivational speakers say it's not, but maybe it is.

I think it is. I think that imposter syndrome can be a real driving force. Well, okay, here's the case for worrying. the case for worrying. The case for worrying is makes you detail-oriented. Yeah. And the details are actually what make the thing good. Yes. So if you weren't detail-oriented, then maybe it wouldn't be as good. I feel like this is blasphemous because everyone's trying to not worry as much.

No, you should be so scared all the time. Stay in your toes. That's what I think. Stay in your toes. No, I really, I think the driving force underneath everything I've done is like this needs. to prove myself. And maybe only after this last one, am I like, okay, I think I'm like, I say this every time. I'm like, I think maybe I can relax. Relax. Yeah.

Right. Like this next hour, I don't think is going to come together in two years. I think it's probably going to take longer than that. That's how I feel about mine right now. Yeah. Which I've never felt that way before. Yeah. I've always been like, I've always had a pretty clear idea of like where I was going next.

Like usually when a special comes out, I have a new hour already. already. And I don't have that for the first time. You have a joke about men who kill their wives and think they're going to get away with it. You haven't planned the thing in your whole goddamn life. What's the most disappointing date that you've been to in your life? I mean, every single date where they weren't my soulmate. It's like really upsetting. And you know so quickly. Yeah. Like I think that's why app dates are so hard because you know within 10 seconds if you like them or not. Right.

So you're soulmate searching and then your soulmate sort of like hopeful. Yeah. And then you're like, oh, got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This isn't it. Yeah. Or if I've like gone on, in the last few years, if I've ever gone on a date and realized halfway through the date, they were pretending not to have seen any of my comedy before.

Yeah. And then it becomes clear that they lied. That is always really tough for me. Because I get that it's like a weird thing and it's hard to navigate. But then I'm like, okay, well, first off, you lied to me, so I don't really trust you now. And also, you know so much more about me than I know about you. And I haven't been aware of that imbalance this whole time. So that's been interesting to navigate.

You talk in this special about having like intrusive religious thoughts or how much religion kind of informs your thinking on day-to-day basis. You still have it? Like, what part of your life is still informed by that? I think that I, here's what I'll say. When I said like people walking out. Yeah. Of a show because they're like, this is too dirty or this is disrespectful or whatever. That actually does trigger that deep religious shame in me from when I was younger.

Yeah. When it was like, because me coming up, if I said anything remotely dirty innuendo. Yeah. If I said, if I said, damn, it was kind of like, I mean, I was raised. on all that like abstinence shit of like if you say sir if you say the word stripper in a joke now every man in this room is thinking about strippers oh really yes i remember a comic said that to me once in like a church situation because i said i think i said stripper in a joke at like a church thing and i was like 16 and this guy was like well when you say that every man in here is thinking

about that and you've it's very similar to like if you wear a tank top, you're leading boys astray. Oh, wow. There was, like, a lot of responsibility placed on you as a girl to, like, not cause men and boys to stumble, which is so crazy. Wow. But I have, I have a lot of, like, shame about feeling, like, people think I'm, like, dirty or gross.

Yeah, yeah. When I'm, like, swearing or talking about sex on stage or something. And then also just, like, I think the absence of. stuff really fucks you up for a long time. And I've done a lot of work on it. But I'm still, I still have to work through it, like, in relationships, I think. Like, at the beginning of a relationship with somebody, I know I'm going to feel that guilt sort of bubble up about sleeping with someone before marriage.

Yeah. And I just know to expect it. And it's sort of like a knee-jerk reaction that I have to, like, think my way through. Sure. It's like deep in my body. It's so funny. It's like I think like I think about this with Fleming too. Because Fleming and I grew up not that far from each other.

He's so funny. Many years apart. But we both had that kind of repression like child, you know, Catholic, you know, Central Massachusetts repression thing. Yeah. And I feel like we're both kind of a response to that. And a lot of Massachusetts comics are. And I'm like I think a lot of religious people with religious backgrounds have. that. But I wonder, like, what it is? I really don't know the answer. Like, what is it that

makes you revolt? I think it's just, after a while, you get kind of angry. I mean, when I started doing clubs when I was like 18 and I was suddenly around a bunch of atheists who, like, had never even thought that God was real and just didn't think about it. And it was a real, like, wake-up call for me. And then I got mad that there were so many people living without this like shame and this secret voice in their head. Like, I just felt like I'd been lied to my whole life. And it's why my jokes when I was younger about religion are so angry because I was like untangling myself from a lot of it. That makes sense. And not everyone has that experience with religion growing up, but I certainly did. And yeah, I mean, I think I just, you get tired of feeling ashamed of yourself. It gets exhausting.

Right. It's like if you know nothing else. Yeah. And when you meet other people who aren't living with that, you're like, well, what the fuck? Yeah. What am I doing? You know? Why do I? Why can't I be like that? No, totally. That makes perfect sense. I feel like even like when I was a kid, I always thought secretly I was funny, but that no one got the joke. Yeah. And then I went into the world of comedy. I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah. These people are like, like me. Yeah. It's such a weird experience. Yeah, when I was a kid, I definitely thought,

but I don't, doesn't every kid just kind of secretly think like, I'm special and nobody knows yet? Do they? I don't know. I don't know. I thought they did. I thought every kid was just like, I'm really something under all the, like, shyness and awkwardness. I don't know. I always felt like that as a kid. And then I got older and I felt really sad when I noticed I, lost that. Yeah. And it's been weird. I've been trying to really focus on the fact that like I'm everything my 12 year old self wanted me to be. Yeah. And really remember that every day. Yeah. So that I appreciate it and enjoy it because I didn't like I didn't think this was going to be my life. I didn't think I was right. But I thought I secretly thought that I was like you said like funny and

interesting and like creative and all that stuff. But I didn't know, I didn't know how to communicate that to other people until I found stand up, I don't think. It is good to remind yourself of that because you do, I think, yeah, anyone can lose track of like what was the initial destination. Yeah, especially in this business when there's so many different types of success to compare yourself to. Yeah.

It can be easy to get lost sometimes. times they go, well, why don't I have that sort of attention or why don't I have that specific type of success or why don't people see me this way? Like, and then you look at where you're at and like, oh, I'm actually doing really well and like so far beyond where I thought I would be. Yeah. And I need to be focused on that, not on like whatever, I don't know, thing I don't have or I'm not managing to I don't know I think there's like a lot of that

with like being cool or something like I feel that way and this is where I'm like I'm like I'm not like cool why can't I be one of like the cool that's really funny the cool people and then I'm like you're fine it doesn't matter you I think you are the cool people

who were the cool people Chris Fleming's like a cool Chris Fleming's a cool that's a perfect example guilty of being cool dresses dresses like a like a mime yeah yeah

It makes it work. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Caleb Heron. Like, there's like, cool. There's like people who are just cool. Right. Who I'm like, I just don't have that. But I'm trying really hard.

I think it's all the people who make it seem really effortless. Yeah. And have a really strong sense of self. And I feel that I have never done anything easily. Yeah. Like, I just feel like I'm like, I'm trying so hard out here. they are both trying very hard. You think?

Oh, yeah. Really? I think they're both great. They've both been on this podcast. I think they're naturally both very, like, talented and are like people, people. You got to realize, like, Fleming's been doing comedy, like, almost 20 years. Yeah, but like, it just flows out of them. He's trying really hard.

Like, he just blew, it just so happens Fleming blew up in the last year. Yeah. First of all, his specials great. And, like, I always think he's funny. But I know what you mean. Like it's, it's a personality thing. I think more than anything is what I get jealous of with other people is I go, I don't have that type of person. It's usually extroverts.

I go, I don't have that. Yeah. I don't have that thing where I get energy from other people and I'm like effortlessly charming. I don't have any of that. Yeah, yeah. I think I'm trying. I think stand up. I think you do, by the way, but I'm not going to fight you at every self-deprecating life.

I think I come. I think I. I think stand-up comes to me much more naturally than anything else. And it's another reason why if I go on a date with someone who's seen all my comedy, they might be disappointed when they made me in person because I'm like, yeah, I like her too. I've worked really hard on her. That's me at my best. Totally.

No, of course. It's your best 45 minutes of yourself. And it's scripted. And like, yeah, I think that's one of the things that's funny about when people often think stand-up comedians are going to be great socially. And it's like, no, no, I have a microphone and I'm on stage and everyone knows not to speak. Yeah. But then some of them are.

It's crazy when there's stand-up comedians who are like great socially. And I'm like, that's all fair. It is hard to theoretically, like, match up to this invented art piece that is yourself on stage. Yeah. Which is a perfect segue into the slow round. Who are you jealous of? I feel like we've covered this. Leanne Morgan's kids.

Leanne Morgan's kids. I want to be Leanne Morgan's daughter so bad. Who's her makeup artist? She was right here when Leanne was on the podcast. And I don't think I've met her, but I met her other daughter, who's also just so charming and sweet. Yeah. But every time I see Leanne in person or on screen, I'm just like,

I think everyone feels this way about her, but everyone's like, can you adopt me? Maybe. Like, the first time I ever met her, she was just like, are you okay? Are you okay? I will do your laundry. Oh, my God. And I was like, I'm okay.

I'm fine. I end up on stage now. Like, she's so magical. I really. She really is. Yeah. So I have a lot of, I have a lot of mom envy. That's interesting.

Whenever I see someone with really good parents, I always want to, like take them by the shoulders and be like, do you know how lucky you are? Sure. Do you have any idea of what you have here? But I think her kids know. I think Leanne might take the job if you asked her. I know. Like I think if you reached out to Leanne and go, hey, I have a complicated parent situation in my life.

You be my mom? Yeah, yeah. My mom's gone. There's a vacancy. Yeah, yeah. Don't ask about my dad. I'm like, I know you're busy. Yeah, I know you're busy.

I know you're filming a show and movies. I don't even have to be full time. You don't. I've moved out. I don't have to stay over. But I can tell people you're my mom. I think that's fair game. I'm hoping she sees this and calls you and goes, yeah, Taylor, you can, I'll be your mom.

This is a joke, Leon. I know you're so busy. You don't have time. You don't have time for that? I'm still holding a candle for this. I think she would. I think she would too. That's lovely.

That's a great answer. What do you daydream about? Ooh. I usually daydream about whatever... This is embarrassing. Please. It's just evidence of what a workaholic I am. I'm usually daydreaming about whatever, like, my next project is. Sure.

Which is, I think, probably me trying to manifest whatever it is. Like, when I was younger, I used to daydream about, like, my special, like, whatever the next special was. And that's kind of not hitting as hard anymore. as far as daydreams go because you go, well, it's going to happen. Like, daydreams are more fun when you're not sure if they're going to happen. Of course. What do you daydream about as a married successful person? You know, no one's asked me this.

No one has, no one has countered me on this. Well, that's rude. It's rude. You just daydream about your daughter becoming an artist, but being like, my dad did everything, right? I think everything is, everything in my daydream universe is fantasy, right? So, like, walking here, for example, like, it's raining out, you know, when you came in. And I, like, saw this woman, like, breaking up with, like, being broken up with on the phone by, like, her girlfriend. And she's like, but I'm not codependent.

Like, it was just, right. No, it's awful. That's awful. I felt terrible. But then my brain just goes into their relationship. Oh. Right. So it's like I'm like living inside of like a hypothetical.

Are you watching them or are you one of them? Yeah, I'm watching and then I walk off and then I and then what I'm thinking about is their deal. Like I feel like so much of my stuff is like I'm in cafes. I overhear stuff. My brain goes into like what is the actuality of that? But that's just you being a writer. It is. So is that daydreaming really?

Taylor, please. Is that just you processing material? You're right. I'm sorry. Stop criticizing my daydrians. You're right. I'm sorry. No, but it is. Yeah, it's writing. Yeah.

It's writing, but it's like that's why I'm a writer in the first place. Yeah. I just go into like, what if, what if this, what if this, what if this? Yeah. And that's also why I catastrophize. I mean, catastrophizing is like a big part of my daydreams. Oh, well, then that's my answer too. I didn't know catastrophizing counted as daydreaming because then in that case,

add that. You can edit out that other part. It's catastrophizing. I'm going to go to material. Okay. I'm going to do more material than usual today because you're a joke nerd like me. Okay. I had a sex dream, and then after that I had another sex dream.

And in my dream, I distinctly thought, I'm on a run. Like you were impressed with your stamina? Yeah, I'm like, I guess I'm just one of these people now. And I woke up and I thought, not only is the streak over, but the streak never started. That's funny. I can't believe that wasn't enough to shake you out of the dream. I would never recover this quickly, surely. I would have been in the second section going, wait.

I should have known. How am I pulling this off? I should have known that this, right? It's like, what is that? It's called in dreams like reality testing or something where you're like, I should have know, like the reality test should have been, this never happens. Yeah, which it's with everything. We were like, when I was at my house, but it was my school.

And it's like, you probably should have known. Right. That's funny. Yeah, that kind of stuff. Who's my house was like, yeah. Right. That's a funny way to go with it. But hey, revealing about you obviously believe in yourself on a deep core level.

Yeah, or have a, or have a desire. No, but I think that's a funny way to go. by the way, I think what you're alluding to, which is like, what's the sex of metaphor for? Yeah. What does it mean? Yeah. It's like, obviously it doesn't mean sex. What do you think it means? I don't think. I couldn't tell you. And then I had this sex dream. And then a few hours later, I ran into one of the people from the sex dream at a coffee shop in my, in real life. In real life. And I thought, in my mind, I thought, I just had sex with you in my dream.

But what I said was, nice to see you. And now I'm suspicious of anyone who says, nice to see you. That's funny. So now when everyone says, when someone says nice to see you, you're like, hey. Well, have you ever told anybody you had a sex room about them? It's kind of a, it's a bad spot to put someone in. My wife, I did. Well, yeah, of course, because you want those points.

That's very funny. way. By the way. I even, I missed you. Oh, I'm dreaming. Oh, I'm dreaming about you. Are you kidding me? And you finished, by the way, in my dream.

It was very important to me, even in my dream. I'm one of the good ones. This is, and then I wrote this on the other day. I paired these all together. It wasn't a, it was like, I wrote sex is such a big deal. It has taken over the word it. When you say we are doing it, people know what you mean. That's a great.

point. Can you imagine cornering the market on the word it? That's such a good observation. Imagine pitching that at a meeting. Like from now on our activity, we're going to call it it. And people are going to know what we mean. And everyone at the meeting

is skeptical. They're like, no one's going to understand what we're talking about. That's such a good point. Yeah, I've never no one's ever said and then we did it. And even like, what did you do? Exactly. That's really wow. I can't believe I've never never heard that before. Do you have anything right now that's like half in the notebook? All I have is, all I have is half-baked stuff right now. Hit me. It's all I've got. Let me see. Oh, it's getting harder to date as I get older because I can't say anything romantic anymore and neither can anyone else. Like, I can't say stuff like I've never felt like this before.

And no one else can say it to me because it used to be romantic now. It's a red flag. someone's like, I've never felt this way before. I'm like, well, you're 38. You should have felt most things. Yeah, yeah. It seems weird. That's a really good observation. Yeah, because it's like... Yeah, the novelty. All, like all sense of novelty in a relationship goes away at a certain point. Yeah, yeah. I've only felt this once. It was with my first wife. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And it's hard to be like, you can only say like I met the one so many times like once you're wrong like three times now you're just like they're great but you know me I'm stupid like I've been wrong a lot totally like that's what's getting so depressing for me and anyone else in my life who's single is we just

keep like there's no we have no confidence in our interest yeah in people we're just like yeah I mean I'm excited but remember all these other things times that I was excited and it was completely wrong. Right. So. Yeah, it's hard to have fresh eyes when you don't have fresh eyes. Yeah. Seen too much.

Yeah, yeah. Seen way too much. So I have that. Oh, my friend Kelsey, Kelsey Cook, another very funny comic, she told me that I should make a list of all of my best qualities as a partner because it'll help me going, when I'm dating, you'll like know what you're bringing to the table. And she said, I did it when I was single and it really helps me. And I said, okay, I'll try that.

And she called me the next day and she goes, did you try to make that list of qualities? And I said, I did. I didn't get very far. Yeah. She said, what did you get? And I said, I wrote down funny, fast reader. And I have a car. Right.

Which doesn't feel great. So it made me feel worse, actually. Right. It's like it made me feel worse. feel like I could be a task rabbit. Yeah, exactly, but humble. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

At least, task rabbit's funny. Fast rabbit. Maybe you feel like I could be an Uber Eats driver. That's funny. It's like, I love that, actually. Fast reader is hilarious. Yeah.

Yeah. It's tough. So if I ever steal your phone, I'm going to get through a lot of emails quickly. Oh, don't spin it back. See, and now you've just spun it. So it's not even a, it's not even a good thing anymore. Yeah, yeah.

I'm like, well, I can't show anyone this list. No, totally. But yeah. All right. What else do I like that? Oh, here's something. Maybe you can't. So it really bothers me when people are pregnant and they won't tell you the baby's name.

When they're like, we're not going to tell people until the baby's born. Yeah. It's like, just tell me. Yeah, I don't care that much. Yeah, I don't care that much. I probably won't see you. I probably won't see you. Yeah, yeah.

I'm not going to tell anyone. I'm not going to. call all our mutuals and go, guess what their baby's name? I don't care. Who do you think your baby is? Are you also going to cover their face at the grocery store? No one gives a shit. Are you in the royal family and I don't realize it?

Yeah, yeah. No one cares. Yeah. And then like, and it makes me resentful so that when they finally do have the baby and they're like, look who it is. I'm like, I don't know, you wouldn't tell me. Totally. I don't know who it is.

Totally. And I'm going to forget the baby's name. name on purpose once it's here as a way to punish you. Yeah, yeah. I'm going to be like, oh, what was it? Sam, well, I didn't have time to memorize it. Yeah. You didn't give me enough time. Yeah. You know how in movies when there's a bully character that, and then there's like a wimpy guy who's always like, hey, I don't want any trouble. Uh-huh. That's me in my marriage. You're the wimpy guy? Yeah, yeah. And then when my wife saw me talk about this, she was was like, that's how I feel.

And I'm like, I don't want any trouble. But then I'm on stage. Yeah, the joke is, I'm on stage right now talking about this. So clearly I want trouble. That's funny. What does she bully you about? Do you have like an example that you can do in an 80s bully voice? Yeah, exactly.

But it's a wife thing. You know, what's funny is like I don't think, I don't think there's any bullying. I feel like we, I feel like I feel like I, I was so, like, I feel like my relationship with my dad was so intense that I, in my life, I put it on whoever is talking to me. Oh. Sometimes. Okay.

You know what I mean? Yeah. So I'm your dad right now. Yeah. Whoever's talking to you? Yeah. It's not everybody, but just in certain situations, I'm like, oh, this is my dad. If someone's upset with you.

Yeah. You're like, that's my dad. Yeah. interesting. Yeah. So she might just be like, can you do the dishes? And you're like, I don't want any trouble.

Stop screaming. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Do you have anything else? I mean, I do, but it's like, who knows if it sucks? It's also like, I don't know. But whatever. Well, let's try it. Something that I have that I do, actually, I've,

I tried this at Largo. and I think I can, I think I'm going to get it somewhere good is people always talk about like the right time to say I love you. Like how long do you wait to say I love you when you're seeing someone and I don't think there's one specific answer because everybody's different. Like if a friend of mine is like they said I love you, is it too soon? I'm kind of like if you're being honest with yourself, you know how long it takes to fall in love with you. right right like if someone told me that they loved me two weeks in i'd be like that's too soon yeah yeah yeah it takes about six weeks for me that's at the earliest a solid marination period and that's if you're on board from the jump right but for people who are like if you're not sure if it's

too soon you need to really assess who you are and what you bring to the table like that's right If someone says I love you three dates in, look at yourself. Yeah. Are you duelipa? No. Then it's probably too soon. Too soon. If you're not a pop star with a book club, you are probably, it's probably a love bombing situation.

This is good. Yeah. This is the one I feel. This is the one I've come up with recently that I'm like, okay, this will be a strong bit. My, you know, when Jenny and I went on our first date, she goes, everyone hates me at work. And I go, why do they hate you? I love you. She goes, you love me.

I mean, you seem cool. It's true story. It's in girlfriend's boyfriend, but it's a true story. I love that. But it's like, there is, it is oddly, and that was earnest, but it was by accident. Yeah. You know. But that's the best way to say it.

But there is something, to your point of your bit, there is. something suspicious about an early I love you. Yeah, but not if you're like Emma Stone, then it's like, of course you're in love right away. Right. So that's the kind of the thing is like, I think that if you, that's what's so hard about dating is you have to be really honest with yourself. Yeah. About who you are and you're like value. Yeah. And how quickly you draw people in and how charming you are. Yeah. Yeah. Because, I mean, yeah if somebody fell in love with me too quick I'd be like that's not I'm not you know it's it's the same reason I'm never late to stuff because I don't have the personality to be late to

stuff I'm not worth the wait like there are people who can reschedule on you who can be like actually I'm going to be 45 minutes late and they get there and you're just grateful they showed up yeah I don't have that I got to I got to get there right on time yeah and even then people are like let's keep this short right know your value and then lower it. You should lowball yourself if possible. All right, the last thing we do is working out for a cause. Is there a nonprofit you like to contribute to them?

And then we will contribute to them and then link to them in the show notes. Yes, Palestinian Children Relief Fund. Oh, great. So we will contribute to them. We will link to them in the show notes. Taylor Thomas and congratulations on another special. Thank you. Always so funny and so good.

and I appreciate so much for you being here and being on time. Thank you for having me. Working it out because it's not done. We're working it out because there's no... That's going to do it for another episode of Working It Out. You can follow Taylor Tomlinson on Instagram at Taylor Tomlinson. You can watch her new special on Netflix prodigal daughter. Check out berbigs.com to sign up for the mailing list.

Get your text message alerts to be the first to know about my upcoming shows. You can watch the full video of this on our show. YouTube channel at Mike Barbiglia, subscribe there. We love it when you subscribe there because we're posting more and more videos. Our producers of working it out are myself along with Peter Salomon, Joseph Barbiglia, Mabel Lewis, and Gary Simons. Sound mixed by Shib Sarin, supervising engineer Kate Balinski. Special thanks to Jack Ansonoff and bleachers, as always for their music. Special thanks to my wife, the poet Jay Hoke Stein, and our daughter, Una, who built the original Radio Fort made of pillows. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. If you

enjoy the show, please rate it and review it on Apple Podcasts. It really helps us. Sign it for premium. That helps us out. Even more. We've done 200 episodes. 200 episodes. We did it. Thanks, everybody. Tell your friends. Tell your enemies. Tell your pastor. If you have one. After church, just say, hey, pastor, Jim. That was a pretty good sermon. Hey, when you're at home between studying those Bible passages, you might consider listening to Mike Berbigli is working it out. It's a podcast where Mike Brubigley talks to other creatives about creative process and even sometimes about religion. And maybe you'll find some inspiration for how to sculpt your sermons. That's right.

You should say this to your pastor. We're working out, everybody. We'll see you next time.