Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 206. Cazzie David: Spiritually a Boomer

Episode Date: March 16, 2026

Mike welcomes author, actor, and filmmaker Cazzie David to the podcast and right away, Mike challenges the notoriously misanthropic Cazzie to list five things she loves. It takes a while. Then, Cazzie breaks down her new book of essays, Delusions, which she says her mom found “disturbing,” and Cazzie talks about co-directing the indie film I Love You Forever. Plus, Cazzie’s close call with a rabid bobcat, and why Mike wants his journals burned after he dies. Please consider donating to The Legal Aid Society Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

I'm trying to take more compliments as a 30-year-old woman. I just don't know how to do anything else. Like, it would just be so fake. I would just be a completely different person if I wasn't constantly apologizing. Okay, let's practice. I would have to make up a new personality. All right, let's practice.

This book is so funny. Thank you. I know. I know. I know. I know is an interesting way to take it. I know, right? It's so funny. Your movie is fantastic, great story.

I know. That is the voice of the great Cassie David. She is a filmmaker, an actor, and an author. She has a brand new book called Delusions. She has a film that I love called I Love You Forever to Independent Film that is now on HBO Max. She writes a lot about sort of millennial angst. Her new book is about the anxiety she felt about turning 30.

We talk a lot about that today. It's just a great episode all around, like very unique, you know, someone who's an extremely prolific comedy writer, actor, director, and I think you're going to love it. Thanks, by the way, to everyone who has signed up for Working It Out Premium on Apple Podcasts. We've been doing a lot of different kinds of bonus episodes. I'm about to record another one with a super secret guest. It'll be out soon. We work out jokes on there. Some of them we work out your jokes.

Some of them we work out my jokes. but it's if you like the working out jokes element of this show, like if you're really nerdy on jokes, the bonus feed is really where it's at. We call it the Birbilia familia. So subscribe to that on Apple Podcasts and stay tuned. Oh, by the way, if you do subscribe, you get no ads on any of the episodes.

And you support the show, which is an independent production. And you get the bonus episodes, like I said. By the way, if you're in Los Angeles, I'll be at Netflix. is a joke festival. May 6th at the Wilshire Ebel Theater. There are a few seats left. It's me and friends. I'll probably do be, I'll probably be doing probably about 40 minutes of my new material. So it's not like the full full show, but it's got some secret guests. One of them confirmed. Really cool. Someone who's been on this podcast before. Really, really funny. So that'll be May 6th at the Wilshire Ebel Theater. Then I'm doing a bunch of dates in support of John Mullaney. May 14th,

I will be in Colorado Springs with John Mullaney. Then I will be May 15th in Eugene, Oregon. And then Bend, Oregon. So that is super exciting. I mean, those should be great. In August, I'll be in Kansas City with him, as well as Lincoln, Nebraska, Waite Park, Minnesota, and a handful of others.

You can get tickets for any of those aturbix.com. And thanks to everyone who signed up for text message alerts. Text message alerts are basically because my email list, sometimes it goes to people's spam. And so now we made a text message alert. If you text 911 444-7-7-1-50, you will be the first, the first to know about my upcoming shows and tour dates.

I love this talk with Kazi David. She is a humorously cynical, comedic voice. Not completely cynical, but maybe realistic as how she'd describe it. We talk about writing books, making films, getting older, a real one-of-a-kind episode for this Working-It-Out podcast. Enjoying my conversation with the great Cassie David. So much of your book is like you being like, you know, imagining yourself like in 20 years being like, you know, you're 30 now. I'm 31.

So you have like a thing where you're like, I am 51. Like you add 20 years and you do like a thing. To feel better about your current age. Right. And so then I did it. Hold on. Let me do it. Oh, it's on page 30.

So then I did it for myself. This is a like satirical mental health piece of advice if you're feeling bad about your age. Right. So I'm going to do it. I am 67. I am now 67 and full of regrets. I wish I could be 47 again. Back in my 47-year-old body, which I once thought was unlovable, but now would give anything to visit.

this again, now that I am 67 and infertile, and my dreams have died. And I am face to face with the last seventh of my life. And it's all such a fucking bummer. That is devastating for me to perform. It must feel really bad to be infertile. Yeah, the infertility is obviously a huge issue for me. Yeah. But like 67, you're like, fuck. But I will say. But then if a. 67-year-old does it. It's add 20 years, right? Yeah, 87. They're imagining themselves at 87. So it must feel really good to be 67. But it's funny because, like, here's what I'll say. Here's what I have to offer for your 31-year-old

self. I'm 47. I'm basically 20 years old than you. It's fine. Yeah. You know what I mean? I keep hearing that it's fine. But like it's it's not great. Yeah. But also like 31 wasn't great. No. You know what I mean? Like, well, everyone said it was going to be amazing.

Like I felt like what I was told was that I would basically become a different person. Right, everyone's going to hype you up. Yeah. Everyone was like, you're not going to think about what other people say about you or like what you look like. Right. And that has not happened yet. Right. And I'm a little, I feel like it was false advertising.

and I'm a little upset, frankly. Do you feel like the people who you're dating should read delusions? I was actually hoping people, like, don't read, and that's, like, the truth. Because you hear that all the time, and that's what I'm hoping. No, I don't think anyone should read that, especially people I'm dating. I don't think people I'm dating should read that now. I was thinking it when I was reading it. I was like, oh, I wonder, because a lot about really cynical takes on weddings, love, romance.

I was like, I wonder, but maybe they should. But it's weird because I actually am kind of a hopeless romantic. Right. I get that too. Yeah. It's just like, it's a really weird. I'm kind of constantly grappling with like both sides of this, of my personality. Right. Which is really wanting the thing and then really hating it. being judgmental about it at the same time.

What is your like best case scenario for your, what's your dream? What's your dream existence? Because so much is this is like popping the balloons of life in existence. Yeah. You know, you, we wrote down, you hate most music, weddings, eating at restaurants, museums, shopping, holding a baby, holidays, travel. First of all, how true is the list? And then can I challenge you to make a list of five things that you love?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Here we go. The list is, that list holds true. I actually just have really bad taste in music. Okay. Like, it's really bad. My friends make fun of me, how bad my taste in music is. Like, I've been really jamming to that song, Ordinary.

Okay, I don't know it. Who's your buy? I think it's probably really bad because I like it. Okay. Um, who's it by? Alex Warren. Alex Warren. Okay, sure, sure.

Like, I like big, like, swinging, like, you know, um, anthems. Okay. Like pop anthems. Okay. One of our slow-down questions is, is there a song that makes you cry? Um, yeah. I don't feel comfortable, uh, saying it. Really?

Yeah. Okay, we're going to have to push back on that. We're going to have to speak with your rap. Yeah. Okay, five things I love. Just a full dog on the crying? Yeah. That makes you cry? Yeah, I'm not answering that.

That's too personal. Fair. Wow. I would say five things that I love. See, this is the thing I talk about in the book also, is that I don't even know if I love them or if I need these things to just be okay, you know? Okay. So it's like maybe someone would say, like, I love being in nature. But it's like, I don't know if I love it.

Like, I'm not necessarily enjoying it. Should we put it on the list? Yeah. Okay. Nature. Yeah. Okay. Looking at nature.

Okay. Right. I've noticed on your Instagram, you have these animals around your house. It's like deer, right? There's deer, but there's also this bobcat. And they won't apparently... I was fine with the bobcat at first. And then there was one time where it leapt at me.

No. Yeah. this is real. It sounds fake, but it's real. It left to you from what distance? So there was a gate, and I was on the other side of the gate, and the gate had like vines on it. So I think from the Bobcats perspective, it thought it was just kind of like bushes. And so it leapt at the gate, but it hit the gate. Oh, wow.

So I saw and ran off. And they said, don't worry, it's not going to attack you unless it has rabies. And I said, well, it has rabies because it tried to attack me. Right. But you can't relocate a bobcat in L.A. It's against the law. Oh. So I'm just going to have to live with it.

And now I walk around my house with an air horn. I literally can't walk outside without an air horn. Wow. Yeah. It's horrible. So I'm constantly living in fear. Wow, that is strange. So it seems like it might be this peaceful experience,

but it's actually, yeah, it's like kind of a nightmare. So we got nature. Yeah, nature. We got trees. Yeah, other things I like. Yeah. Food. So I don't, it's not like I'm a foodie.

Yeah. And I actually, that's another thing I'm really scared of. Okay. It's just the whole thing around eating. Okay. Yeah. I seem real pleasant. No, I feel the same way, though.

I think fancy food is bullshit. I can't eat at restaurants. The whole food is art phenomenon, like respect to people who do it. Also, you should respect me for enjoying macaroni. cheese. Yeah. Well, I can't enjoy that. But I will say, I think, you know, everyone says, like, oh, the food in France is incredible. Right. Can't eat there. Worst food I've ever had in my life. I can't get into it. Every restaurant. It's like one after the other. They're like, okay, well, you'll love this one. Yeah. It's all bad. No, I get that. This is the list of things you love.

Okay, yeah, yeah. Okay, food. No, I don't think I would go there. Okay. It's again. Sports? No, but I have a... You seem like you'd be good at sports? I am good at sports. What are you good at? Okay, I have one. I love games.

Okay? Yeah, games. We got nature. We got trees. Yeah, I like games. I like parlor games. I like competitive games. You play sports?

I'd like to go on traitors, I think, when my career, you know, is a little bit more up in the air. Traders? Yeah. What's traitors? Mike, what? I don't know what it is. I'm sorry. It's like the biggest reality show, right?

now. Okay. It's amazing. Maybe we could go on together. Because I actually... What would we do? You play mafia. You play like live mafia. Oh, okay. But it would be real. I don't want to go alone. Like, some people go with their friends, like Johnny and Tara. Like, I feel like we could be Johnny and Tara. Do you think we'd be good? Yeah, I do. Oh, really? Yeah. And it's parlor games, but on television. No, it's mafia. Right, mafia. It's live mafia. So, Everyone goes to Scotland for like a few weeks. Oh. And there's two people that are pronounced traders.

Where is this? I can't believe. And it's hosted by Alan Cumming. Oh, that's fun. So we would go on together. Yeah, I would do that. You would? Yeah, I think I would be into that.

Like, would you ever go on reality TV? I think that I would not be excited about it. but I feel like I would be open to engaging it if you thought that I would bring something to the table. Yeah, I think you would definitely bring... If you could activate something in me that would be strong, I feel like I would engage that. I think you kind of just exude faithful energy,

which is you're either a traitor or faithful. And I think that could really work in our favor in case one of us happened to be a traitor because we're obviously going to form an alliance. Okay. Gotcha. Okay, so we've got nature. I like reality TV. Okay. Reality TV. Okay. Yeah. But not housewives. I can't. I've really, really want to like them. I want to like watching that show, but I can't. Watch what happens. No. No? I'm too scared of Andy Cohen. Yeah. Huh. Yeah. I feel like you'd be a good fit.

If he was talking about like Love Island, I would go on. But I don't really know the housewives enough. Okay. And I don't really want him to like, I don't want to get a gotcha question, you know. Does he have a lot of those? Have you been on the show? No, I've never been on. You should go on and let me know how you liked it. I engaged with them once, but it was too much like, hey, do you know about reality shows? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I don't really know much about them. Well, I think you should go on. And if you like it, I'll go on after.

Okay, so we got nature. Yeah, nature and trees. We got games. Nature and trees is one. Okay, nature slash trees. We got games slash parlor games. Yeah, reality TV. So then we're just at two.

Okay, I really like. Reality TV is three. not having to leave the house. I respect this so much. And by the way, someone couldn't come out the other night and their excuse to me was that they've been out three nights in a row so they just couldn't come out again.

And I was like, that is a totally legitimate excuse and that should be more widely used. It's like if you've gone out three nights in a row... I think that's a fair reason to not go out. Yeah, that's totally reasonable. Of course you shouldn't go out again. Three nights in a row, that's it. This is a great list.

By the way, this is the beginning of your next book. Okay, great. Chapter 4, not having to leave the house. That's really good. Okay, so we're at- Let's move on. We have nature, trees, games, slash parlor games, reality TV, number four. Not leaving the house. And I need to think of one more, right?

Yeah, these are good, though. Because the question was five things I love. Okay, I love when my friends come to me. That's the same as not leaving the house. Okay, okay, that's fair, that's sorry. That is such bullshit. It's true. Okay.

When my friends come to me. Yeah. Well, maybe I'm not at the house, but they're still coming to me. Yeah. Yeah, that's bogus. It's just not viable. All right, all right, all right. I got this.

I got this. One thing I love. Literally one thing I love. Reality TV, not having to leave the house. One thing I love. That's not on that list already. Like, friends and family are... No, I don't love friends and family.

I don't love friends and family. I'm going to take my time. You did thank some of your friends and your acknowledgements. Like, I love the people I thanked, obviously. But I don't love friends and family. Right. No, I get it. You know? You get that, right? Oh, I love my cats.

That's nice. Throw it down, write it down, cats. What is it the name of your cats? A Link and Mikey. Link and Mikey In parentheses, cats. We have nature, games, reality TV, not having to leave the house, and my cats.

That's a good list, though. Thank you. I love your bio. He's Dave is a 31-year-old girl, not woman who has been told by up to two psychics that she has lived many lifetimes and that only this current lifetime is that of a nepo baby.

the other lifetimes were very respectable. Yeah. I do think there are new nepo babies. Yes. That haven't lived other lives, perhaps, of really, you know, hard past lives. Right. And those nepo babies we can call, you know,

like you're a nepo baby, like, shut up. Right. And I feel like I think for sure I was at least once a really, really horrible person. Oh. Because the karma I, I've been getting in this life for certain things, just on a superficial level.

Really? Yeah. I would say even just this week, there was a photo taken of me. And I looked at it and I said, I did something so, so bad in a past life. Okay. And I know that now for a fact.

Because bad angle kind of thing? It was like, it was just like I had to, I can't even explain how bad this was. You hate the photo. It's not even like the worst photo of me. the worst photo of anyone that's ever been taken. And it just, it has to be that I did something really bad.

I think you're funniest, I think you're up there for funniest nepo baby. Thank you. Well, that's not hard, is it? No. I mean, who, like, how many funny nepo babies are there? There's not a lot. I think that there's a correlation between a lack of strife. Yeah.

And comedy. Definitely, definitely. So it's like, there's like, some. Somehow you ended up with strife. Well, maybe it's my past lives. Right, no, it could be a lot of strife. Right, the past lives could have a lot of strife. I will say, though, like, you know, everyone comments on this Napa baby thing

and everyone gets in trouble for whatever they say. Oh, do they? Oh, I can cut it out if you want it. No, no, no, I don't care. Okay. But I would say that, like, the only real downside, you know, because people will talk about, you know, you have to work, sometimes people are like, you have to work twice as hard. It's like, no, you don't.

Okay. What I would say is that the only downside is that you have to convince people for the rest of your life that you're not the most annoying person on Earth. 100%. And I'm, and just that, like, I know that I'll have to keep doing that. Like, I'm just going to, my goal is just to convince every person I talk to. And maybe that's why I am so annoying that I'm not truly the worst person alive. Right. Yeah.

Because that's the assumption. You, you, if you know someone's enough of it, you go, you've got to be the worst person alive. I don't think the assumption is the worst person. I do think that it is like, okay, here's what I'll say. One time I talked to your dad and I asked him for advice on parenting. Oh, my God. I go, how do you?

Why would you ask him that? Well, because, it's funny, we hadn't met. Yeah. I think I'd seen your movie. I loved your movie. Cool. Thank you. And I urge the listeners of a podcast to see you.

movie. That's so nice. Thank you. And I'm trying to think John Rudnitsky's in it. It's great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're in it. You're great. Thank you. Like you, like I was, because you wrote and directed it and started in it. Yeah, I co-wrote it with my, my best friend and co-writer and co-director, Elisa Kloni. I think it's phenomenal. Thank you. Like, I was blown away, but anyway, the point is, I asked your dad once, who I only know a little bit, but I said, do you have anybody advice for parenting because your life is not normal. How do you raise a child with any sense of

normalcy? And it says, no first class. So my question is, when did you first fly first class? I can't remember. I will say, like, I just wasn't, I really wasn't aware that I, like, didn't live a normal life

until I got to college. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. Why college? Because people treated me a little differently. but I did go to like a school like specifically for like writing comedy and so Harvard? No. Where'd you go to school?

It's so much worse at Mercerne College. Oh, there you go. Which by the way, there's a large migration. Yes. It has like a comedy major, I think. Yeah. Comedy writing majors. You can't teach comedy.

So like I feel that way. Maybe you feel differently. I don't think you can teach comedy. I think there's some truth to that. I think you can foster something that's already there is my, Is that's my gut? Sure, yeah, of course. You can get better at something you already have.

Yeah, yeah. But I don't think you can just like learn comedy. From scratch. Yeah, I get that. No. Yeah. But the school has, yeah, a comedy major. And every year there's like a large migration from Boston to Los Angeles.

Everyone in the school moves to L.A. Really? To try to like make it in the industry. Yeah. Hold on. Let me get to my, I have so many questions. I have more questions for you than anything. Please.

Please. So I've been doing press for this book. Uh-huh. And the press is so people buy the book, right? Yeah, I get it. And I'm so certain that, you know, I'm talking about the book and that people were actually before maybe like, oh, that book looks intriguing, like maybe I'll get it.

And then they hear me talk and they're like, actually, no, I don't want that. It's like, I think I lose a potential customer every time I do press. I swear. Here's what I'll say about the book. I'm going to make a sell. I'll make it to camera for the YouTube people.

This book is not only, it's a beautiful book. Thank you. It's a great gift. It is entirely of your own voice. Like, it's so, like the same way that your movie is just so your movie. Like, it's so of your voice, and it's so enjoyable, and you feel like you're hanging out with your snarky friend at a wedding who's making. fun of everyone. Why would I want to hang out with her? Of course you would. No, no, that's a good sell, I think.

Okay, thank you. Like, your funniest friend at a wedding, that's this book. Thank you. I should have flirted that. That's a good blurb. Yeah, we get into a camera back. Yeah. Next to Graydon Carter and Alex Cooper. Who's that? I know, right? By the way, I bet you're on Alex Cooper's podcast, which is apparently a thing. Mm-hmm. Huge thing. Apparently. Big thing, yeah.

I don't know. Kind of like you didn't know about traitors. People say a lot of things about a lot of things. Right. But here's what you wrote on page 37 in your book. A podcaster's only qualifications to give advice on any matter in the known universe, love, friendship, family, business, public policy, mental health, morality, military strategy, seem to be the fact that they are alive and have an iPhone. was this aimed at me.

Because you were elusive as a guest. I saw your movie. I was like, come on the podcast. Because I'm convinced your movie came out a year and a half ago or so. Yeah, like this time last year. I was like, and I think I made this case to you. I was like, these, the people who watch this podcast,

they're the people who will watch your movie. Thank you. It's the exact people. I've had trouble finding my demographic. It seems to be in the last few years that's felt really only, like, my dad's friends, like, that age range. Like, truly, like, I do really well with 75-year-old men. Right. Like, they love me.

Right. I can say that confidently. Yeah. They like, they get me. I get that because you're an old soul. Thank you. No, I'm just saying it matter-of-factly. Yeah.

You are, right? I would like to say so. Yeah. I don't think you can really call yourself an old soul. It just is maybe one of the worst things you could say about yourself, like, along with like I'm an empath, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

But thank you. So your movie, I'm here today to make a case for... For the funniest Nepo Baby. Foniest Nepo Baby. Also, make more movies. That was your first movie, right? It's so funny that you're just like, why aren't you making more movies? It's like, I'm trying.

No. But it's like... I know you're trying. But I... It's not that easy. I get it. I know. I'm making my third movie right now,

and it's like super, super hard. No, it's like getting someone to really believe in it and help you make it. That's the hard part. No, I get it. Yeah. For people who haven't seen the movie, can you explain the logline of your movie? Yes. It's like a rom-com gone wrong that kind of like turns into an emotional.

emotionally abusive relationship. But it's a comedy. Yes. So if you're thinking like, how can you make a comedy about abuse, you'll be the judge, you know? Right. The movie is on HBO Max.

It's called I Love You Forever. It is the guy who's like the psychopath is great too. What's the actor's name? It's Ray Nicholson. Oh, so Jack Nicholson's son? Yeah, another Nepo. That guy's great. I honestly was so mad.

And then Roonnicki's great. I would have cast just all nepoes. And just been like, yeah. What did you like most and least about directing? What I liked most is just the experience of, like, having something in your head and, like, bringing it to life. Yeah. What I liked least was trying to find roundabout ways to get something out of an actor, which is what directing is. You like that the least.

Yeah. That's funny. I kind of, like, a lot of the times I want to just be like, just don't sound so... So fake. Yeah, so fake. Yeah, yeah. And because I'm a writer and, like, because, you know, we wrote the script, there's a very specific way you want certain lines to sound, especially when they're jokes. Yeah.

And so to not, because actors don't like this. To not be like, say it literally in this exact way and give them a line reading. To try to find ways to make them. say it the way you want it to be said without just telling them how to say it it just felt like so like um it just it just wasn't my strong suit um to do that it's interesting because i would never have guessed that from watching the movie because it feels so loose thank you and natural in like the best way appreciate that i can stop talking about the movie however i will end on just saying please make more movies. Thank you. I'm going to really try. If you know anyone who could help, let me know.

It reminded me of when Lena came out with tiny furniture. I remember when that happened. And I was like... It was really cool. And there was like a logic to it that carried over to her series with Judd and Jenny Connor. And I felt like that when I saw your movie. I was like, oh yeah, it could be series, but also like, just could be a string of movies. Thank you. That's really, really nice. I'm trying to take more compliments as a 30-year-old woman.

And I'm trying to ask more questions as an interviewer. I've been told it's really unseemly to not accept the compliment by almost everyone. Is that right? Yeah. It's unseemly? I've been told that it's just like,

it's too much, the personality, the self-deprecation. Interesting. I just don't know how to do, anything else. Like, it would just be so fake. I would just be a completely different person if I wasn't, like, constantly apologizing. Okay, let's practice. I would have to make up a new personality. All right, let's practice. This book is so funny. Thank you. I know. I know. I know is an interesting way to take it. I know, right? It's so funny. Your movie is fantastic. Great story. I know.

It's going really well. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. I don't think it has to be either you don't acknowledge the compliment or you say, I know. I think I know. What's the other, what's the other version? Thank you. Thank you. Thank you's big.

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. I do think it's, look, I think compliments are hard to take. Because even thank you is like, I don't know. Yeah. It's got an energy to it. Thank you.

Well, you don't know if it's going to be. Yeah, you agree. There's, if you're talking about something, you kind of have to, there's a part of you, especially if you're someone who also, like, makes things. You feel like you kind of have to say something about it. Otherwise, you know that they know that you might not actually have enjoyed it, you know? Right. Like, if I'm talking to, like, another artist, I use quotes because I really hate that word.

Yeah. I know of all people, when, like, you have to tread so carefully when talking about. talking about someone's work. Okay. Yeah, sure. Like, someone will be like, you know, I really liked it. Like, I thought it was fun. That to me, it's like, oh, they hated it.

Yeah, they hated it. And so you have to be careful when talking about work with someone who also makes, you know. You know, the worst is when people go, congratulations. Yeah. Like, oh, what about this? Such a, so impressive to make a movie. So impressive to make it. To do it?

To do anything at all. Yeah. such a big feat such a feat yeah that's bad like cute is probably the worst it's so cute it's cute no it's not cute

as a matter of fact your mom my mom likes to say things are cute that I do no but your mom the other day on Instagram stories you posted a thing where you go

my mom didn't read the book for a while and then she did read the book and I asked her what she thought and I think you she said like I found parts of it disturbing or something

I actually had given it to her months ago and she read it when I gave it to her. First of all, she was like, I love the table of contents. And I was like, thanks. That really wasn't like something that was supposed to be. Yeah.

And then after she read the table of contents, I did not hear from her. But I knew she started because she had commented on the table of contents, which was the first page. Right. And so months went by, and she never said anything to me about it.

And at some point I was like, you know, I was kind of scared to ask. You know, when someone, it's the worst thing. something someone can do is watch your movie, you know that they started it, or your book, and then never say anything again. A book is better because they could have just fallen off and not finished it. Yeah. But I know my mom finished my book. Right. And so finally I was like, did you finish reading it? And she was like, I did. And I was like, I could have just been like, all right,

like, that's it. And I was like, well, did you like it? And she was just like, I was, yeah, very disturbed, yeah. But it's because my mom, like, reads my book as, like, a mother. Like, she reads all my work as a mother. Of course. But my dad, thankfully, like, he reads my work more as, like, a writer.

Right. So he's not, like, thinking about, like, his daughter while he's reading it. He's, like, thinking about the writing. That's great. Yeah. But my mom, like, I don't even know why she reads it at this point. She's...

So the word she said was disturbing? Disturbed, yeah. Which parts? She said she was, like, worried about my mental health. I was, it's so funny, I was looking for that in the read, and I was like, I don't find it disturbing, even if I imagine you were my daughter. Like, I'm, it didn't, I wasn't like, I'm worried about this person. I think it's really just like the obsessive thoughts. My mom's also like the most confident person I've ever met.

Like she cannot understand how she can have a daughter who's so insecure. Okay. It just doesn't occur to her. Gotcha. And I don't know if that's like growing up without social media or like what it is. but to read, I think, how, like, deeply insecure I can be or, like, the obsessive thoughts that kind of take over and, like, you can't think about anything else.

Maybe that's what concerned her. But I'm not, I didn't really know either. I disagree with her. Thanks. I just disagree with her. I think, like, it's so clearly, like, you're in control of your own whimsy. You know what I mean?

Like, I don't think it's, like, like, unhinged. Yeah, no one's ever said that to me before. Thank you. I'm just like embellishing what she said. But like she's like if she's saying she's like disturbing, is that what she's saying? I think she actually, you know, like growing up, she was definitely like concerned for me because I didn't really have an outlet and I just did seem like a really miserable child. Like I just seemed like unhappy to be alive. Oh, interesting. And so I think when she realized that I was like could put it somewhere or I could do something with it she finally was like oh actually maybe you're okay right yeah for that was much later in life interesting the other uh term you coined is

too full to fuck yeah you wrote an essay about this sure did and i think it's pretty self-explanatory i think so if you're out to dinner yeah there reaches a point where there's too much food in you too fuck yeah of course do you factor that into a dinner date I think the essay I think you should read the essay What I will say is that this is a perfect example of why I'm not really a good messenger

of my ideas because I think that's a really reasonable idea which is that I think people can relate to it I think it's kind of universally agreed upon this essay comes out it's incredibly divisive

people say there's something wrong with my anatomy They're saying maybe it's, you know, it's problematic. Yes, they think it's insane. Really? This concept's insane. Oh, that's so funny. And I haven't heard the side of it.

They also didn't understand that it was satire. I mean, it's real. Yeah, of course it's real. But it's satire. Yeah, sure. I'm not like dead serious. Right. Like, this isn't important.

Right. They shouldn't be in the Constitution. Yeah. Or maybe. Or maybe it should be. Yeah. But after this came out, Amendment, an amendment to the Constitution.

People were really upset. And then two weeks later, it was like memes galore. Really? That everyone was like, oh, like, I don't want to have sex if I've eaten, like, obviously. Millions of likes. Thousands of comments. This is so me. This is so relatable.

And I'm just sitting there, like, you know, having been obviously like soft canceled. Just the gaslighting by the internet happens to me a lot. I actually think I'm like a horrible age in terms of the internet because I had to grow up with it in the time of all of this. Yeah. But I'm too old. I feel like I miss the boat for it feeling for feeling really shameless to be posting like myself alone in a room talking. Okay. I feel like if I was like two years younger, I could have, you know, maybe partake partaked in that a little bit more.

Yeah. And I think if I was older, I would have like totally. like it wouldn't have mattered for my life or my career to be posting. You're like the age 30 through 35-ish group. I feel like... We've got like the worst deal. Yes. I think anyone over 35, like it didn't matter.

Right. It didn't matter for their work or like their personal life to have the internet make content. Younger people, it's like everyone, it's like you're almost born with like this ability to just do that and it feels normal. And it doesn't feel normal for me. And it's been really hard to like... be working and like wanting to get my like work out there right that is an interesting thing do do like you talk a lot about age in your book i mean a lot of it is like celebrating your birthday a year in advance well like not non celebrating my birthday non celebrating your birthday year in advance

but like what do you ever have a thing like people your frustration with people like i'm 47 like people my age, misunderstanding people your age? Do I? Is there like an annoying, like, oh, this, they don't get this about people my age? No, I think I'm spiritually maybe a boomer. Oh, age yourself. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I get that. Yeah. You're an old soul. Because I'm an old soul. Yeah. Go ahead and say it. You should say it. As you all know, I am, I identify as being an old soul.

No, I just, I think anything that happens on the internet where everyone agrees upon one thing. There was like a time where it was like, everyone was like, side parts are uncool. Like, I don't, I can't, I'm of the boomer generation where I'm like, I don't understand that. Right. You know?

Why are they doing that? What's the side parts? Like, when you move your hair this way or thing? Exactly. I'm not of like, why don't the boomers understand that side parts aren't cool? Right. Just to be clear, I'm not a boomer. I'm not a boomer.

I'm a ex. Yeah. I'm a hard ex. Okay, so maybe I'm a hard ex. You might be a hard ex. I think we all have like a metaphysical age and then our real age. Like, I think I'm actually like 17. Oh, okay.

Or 75. And I think you... That makes sense. I think you are probably nine. Oh, okay. Chris Fleming did a joke in especially the other day that I am simultaneously a father and a son. Did you see that?

I think if you are a comedian, like you're like perpetually a child. I think that that's true. Yeah. And do you think you have that? Yeah, probably. You write in the book about regretting every decision you've ever made. That's right. What decisions have you made this week that you already regret?

Well, I've realized that I've gone, I go days without speaking to anyone. Okay. Because, again, I don't like to leave my house. Fascinating. And every time you have a conversation, because if you don't communicate with people that much, there's like a lot of focus on your one conversation that you've had. Yeah. So you can have a lot of regrets about that conversation.

Yes. So when you go from not speaking very often to like promoting this book or whatever, I'm talking to so many people sometimes on recorded, you know, scenarios. Scenarios, yeah. There's so much that you recall having said. I'm almost like my brain feels like almost broken how many like things I'm regretting. Right. Having said this week in just so many conversations.

Yeah, I get that. So I guess just everything I've said in the last week, especially the stuff I've said that's been recorded. Would be my answer. You said that there are things in your book that you wouldn't tell your therapist. Yeah. Now that it's out, are you going to tell her?

She, I told her not to read it, like I told my whole family and my friends. But I think that actually, I've been hoping that wasn't actually an enticing cell. Yeah, yeah. But people seem to want to read it more. Yeah, that's a hook.

Yeah. I thought that was just like an angle. I wasn't really trying to use that as like a promotional tactic. Right. You're demanding people. So I think if I start telling people like, you should really read this.

Like you'll love it. Right. They might not read it. Yeah. So maybe I'll tell her to read it. We have a thing in common, which is you use Gilmore girls as a sort of comfort show.

You do too? My daughter does. Wow. How old is she? Ten. So I watch a lot of it with her. And it's like, I think you do a really good job in the book of getting into what it is. Because I've been watching this show.

We've watched every episode seven times. Who's your favorite Rory boyfriend? I, if you said the names, I would be able to say. There's just Logan and Dean. Logan. Interesting. What does it say about me?

You aspire to be a clean and a sophisticated guy. I don't know. What would Dean mean? He's like a bad boy. No, Jess is the bad boy. Okay. Yeah. Dean sucks. Okay.

And if you like him, you're dumb. I had, there was one thing the other day where there was a breakup. It was the friend's breakup. Lanes? It was Lanes. Or Paris? No, no, it was Lanes breakup. And it was like them being like, men are the worst, boys are the worst.

Yeah. You know, I had to be like, Una. There's one exception to this in the world. It's me. That's hilarious There's like a lot There's so I mean The show is so great for so many reasons

But the reason it's my comfort show Is obviously just because like nothing really bad Ever happens in it I think that you nailed that in your book You have a whole run on like What it is about that may Because it's not like the world No

I talk about it a lot actually Like I do too much No but it's there's no There's no real conflict No there's no real conflict It's like a town in Connecticut where there's no actual conflict. Yeah. It's only just like family problems and like relationship issues.

Right. Which is what you want, especially when you're going to sleep. Exactly. And in a certain way, it's like really just about like a mother and daughter, like being best friends and then like having bumpy days. Yeah. I'm just worried that I'm going to be like 80 years old and like needing to watch Gilmore Girls on a laptop to escape. Like that is really where I'm headed. Like that's a real problem.

Right, right, right. Because already I didn't expect to be watching it still at 31. Right. You know, I watched it go to sleep when I was like probably your daughter's age. Yeah, yeah. I don't really remember when it came out. Yeah, that seems... I've been watching it forever.

Seems right. But the fact that I still need to watch it to, like, feel better. I'm going to be older than everyone in the show, and I'm going to be, like, needing it. Like, that's just not okay. It's so funny when you point out that you looked up Laurelize age and it's 32 and you're 31. I know. And you thought you were Rory. Yeah.

It's like, when does that happen? Yeah, that's wild. Do you believe your age? Like, I feel like it's a real thing that, like, nobody can actually believe that they are the age. They are. I don't know. I do not believe my age. Yeah.

It's very confusing to me. Like, every time you're reminded of it, you're like, how is that possible? How did that happen? Yeah, it's confusing. But I also feel like when I was 12, people thought I was 40. Yeah. And now I'm 47. they think I'm 40.

Yeah. Like, it's all just one lump of 40. Right. Like, yeah. I always had like a middle-aged vibe when I was a kid. I don't know. Do you have any relationship deal breakers? Looking through your phone.

Oh, that's big. Yeah, and some people would think that's toxic, that I would say that because it's like you would only care if you had something on your phone. Right. But I just think it's just like a, you, It can't be done. Right. Have you gone through your wife's phone before?

No way. You would never. No, as a matter of fact, we've talked about it before. I think going through the person's phone or their journal is worse than... Oh, I think you can go through someone's journal. Really? Yeah. If they keep a journal, you can go through it.

You should not keep a journal. If they keep a journal, you can go through it. The amount of trust you have as a person, you have a journal, like, that's not realistic. Yeah, you can't have a journal, like, sitting around. How old are you? You know? I'm 47. Do you have a journal? Yes. Of course I do. Good. Do it on your laptop. That should, it needs to be lock and key private. Now you're making me worried, but, you know, what's the worst thing that can happen? Okay, but if you died, would you want someone to read it? I think you wouldn't. No, no, no, no. I always say burn the journals.

Right when you die, burn it. Yeah. When I die, I need everyone in my life to just burn my journals. That's how I feel about it. I think it's a good, like for your funeral, you should have a journal burning. Journal burning at the funeral. Let it be known on this podcast today. You need those journals burned. The journal burning is going to be a crucial part of my funeral.

Yeah. It was Cassie David's idea. All right, that's great. In your book you wrote, no one except maybe my dad saw him. being a hater as a welcome quirk. Right. What did he understand about you that other people don't?

Well, I just really feel like there was a time before now that being a hater was like, you know, a good thing in society. Right. We turned to them to know, like, you know, what was, what's wrong with what we're liking or what we're enjoying.

Yeah. And now you're just kind of like an outlier of society. You're like the work. of the people. And I was just wondering, like, when did that happen, you know? And why when I'm alive? Like, it just seems really unfair.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think anyone respects the hater now. That's interesting. Especially since there's the term, the hater. Like, there wasn't that term before. You were a critic or you were, like, a philosopher. Right. You know?

No, I get that. I think that it's, I think, that it ends up being a challenge for us as comedy writers to just be funny enough that people don't notice it as hate. Yeah, that's really good. I think that's the challenge of the whole thing. Right. Because all of it, all my jokes, whatever, they're all based in some kind of, I don't know if it's hate, but like frustration, like annoyance. So are you saying if they notice the hate, it's not funny enough? Yeah, and I don't notice it with you. I'm saying it as a compliment. Okay, because I don't know if people would agree with you.

What's that? I don't know if people would agree with you. I feel like all, I mean, for me, a lot of what I see is hate. Yeah. The way people describe you? No, what I, my writing, like what I'm writing about. Like, I'm hating. I'm, like, constantly hating.

It's so funny. But I think it's fine. Like, I think it should be accepted. I don't think it's hate. I really don't. I think it's like. You're roasting everything. Which is like kind of another word for hating.

The final thing we do is working out for a cause. Is there a nonprofit that you like to contribute to? And then we will contribute and then link to them in the show notes to encourage others. Oh, wow. I mean, anything that has any organization for immigration right now, I think is the most important. That's great. We are going to contribute to legal aid society, which is legal aid, NYC, c.org.

Great. Kazi, this is fantastic. Is there anything else you want to hit before we go? Oh my God. I feel like I don't even know. I'm going to sell the book more. The book is great.

It's called Delusions by Kazzy David. The movie's great. I love you forever. I can't wait for more books and more movies. Oh, God. I really hope there's no more. I hope I never write another book again. Yeah, yeah.

Maybe we'll cut that. No, no, I was thinking to insert that earlier. Working it out because it's not done. We're working it out because there's no... That'll do it for another episode of Working It Out. You can follow Kazi on Instagram at Kazi David. Her new book, Delusions, is out now. She co-wrote, co-directed and co-stars in the movie I Love You Forever,

which is on HBO Max. check out berbiggs.com to sign up for my mailing list and sign up for the text messages alerts. Join the Bibliya Familia with the bonus episodes on Apple Podcasts by signing up for premium. You can watch the full episode of this on our YouTube channel at Mike Barbiglia and subscribe over there

because we're posting more and more videos. Our producers of working it out are myself along with Peter Salomon, Joseph Barbiglia, Mabel Lewis, and Gary Simons, sound mixed by Ben Cruz, supervising engineer Kate Balinski. Special thanks to Jack Anzenoff and bleachers for their music.

music, special thanks to my wife, the poet, Jay Hope Stein, and our daughter, Una, who built the original radio fort made of pillows. Of course, always, thanks most of all to you who are listening and supporting the show. If you like it, rate us, review us on Apple Podcasts, almost 5,000 user ratings

at this point. It's very exciting. It helps us out. Well over 200 episodes, if you say what your favorite one is over there, it helps new people find where to start. Thanks most of all to you who listen to the show, tell your friends, tell your enemies, which I've heard you've done.

And thank you. And, you know, you could tell the bobcat outside your house. I know in many places it's illegal to relocate bobcats, but it's not illegal to give them podcast recommendations. Hey, Bobcat, I know you're not a human and don't necessarily know what comedy is, but while you're roaming around here, you might want to try this podcast called Mike Barbigley's Working It Out. It's where Mike Barbigley talks to other comedy folks about the creative process.

there's even occasionally some bobcat talks about bobcats and jane cats all right here we go thanks everybody we're working it out we'll see you next time bobcats and jane cats come on