Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 207. Chris Fleming Returns: He Is Way More Popular This Time

Episode Date: March 30, 2026

The last time comedian Chris Fleming was on Working it Out, the episode was titled “He Should Be Way More Popular.” In the 2 years since then Mike’s wish has come true. Chris and Mike chat about the pros and cons of having a higher profile in comedy, including the protective steps needed to avoid legal action from Adam Driver over a bit. Mike also takes the chance to respond to the shots Chris takes at Mike in his new HBO special Live at the Palace, and Chris talks about getting glared at by Ryan Gosling. Plus, Mike and Chris work out lots of new jokes about drum circle friend groups, hotel smells, and dog DNA tests. Please consider donating to Planned Parenthood Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

I went out on stage opening for somebody and it was silent except for one guy who just said, Let's go weird out. Oh my God. Let's go. Let's go weird out. And then it's like, why am I even bothering? Why is that heckle so good? It's so.

Let's go weird out. That is the voice of the great Chris Fleming. Let's go Weird Al. Chris Fleming. is one of my favorite comics. He is on fire. He was on this podcast a year or two ago. He makes me laugh so hard.

He has a new special out on HBO called Live at the Palace. You know that I really truly love this special because I recommend it, in addition to on this podcast, to everyone I know. It is just silly and ridiculous. And he is silly and. and ridiculous and very talented. It's no fluke how silly and ridiculous he is. He's worked at it.

And we talk about that today. We have a really good chap. By the way, he also has a special that's really funny on Peacock streaming on Peacock called Hell. I want to mention something fun, by the way. The audio of my show, the old man in the pool, is now on Spotify. That was like a whole thing. I know it wouldn't seem like that would be a whole thing. You're probably thinking, of course it is.

Nope, it's a whole thing. So now on a Spotify, you can listen to The Old Man in the Pool. Thank God for jokes. My girlfriend's boyfriend, my Secret Public Journal live, and To Drink Mike. If you want to reference all of the jokes that Jack Antonoff references over and over again when he comes on this podcast. Hopefully he's coming on again soon because there's a new bleachers album coming out. So bug him online about that. By the way, thanks to everyone who signed up for working out premium on Apple Podcasts.

We love our little Berbilia familia over on Premium on Apple Podcasts. What you do is you go to the podcast app, Apple Podcasts, and then you click on Mike Barbigli is working it out. There's a thing underneath where it says latest episode, where it says working out premium. $4.99 a month, and if you subscribe, what happens is you get these bonus episodes, which we think are really funny and interesting and actually even more behind the scenes than the show itself is. And every other episode, like there's 200 and something episodes of the podcast, you get no ads. So we think it's a great deal. You support the show. We're an independent production. We really appreciate it. And you get these bonus episodes. One of them is where I work out new jokes entirely. I share audio from my comedy seller set recently. like an all-new story. There's one with Pete Holmes where we work out listeners' jokes.

Anyway, I think they're really good and we're making more and more. Also, I will officially be in Los Angeles at the Netflix is a joke festival. May 6th at the Wilshire E Bowl. Mike Barbiglia working it out with friends. I already know who one of the friends is, and it's really cool comedian who's been on this podcast before. So it's going to be great. Hope to see you.

Then, oh, actually, in the month of May, I will be supporting John Mullaney on tour, along with Fred Armisen, in Colorado Springs, Eugene Oregon, and Bend, Oregon. Oh, I'm excited about those. Also, August 23rd in Moorhead, Minnesota. A bunch of dates with John Mullaney, really excited about those. Those shows are awesome. His touring set right now is, I think, I said it on this podcast with him. I think it's as funny or funnier than anything he's ever done. So go get tickets to that, all at berbigs.com. Thanks to everyone who signed up for the text message alerts. If you're on the mailing list and you want to make sure you get alerts about shows in your area,

text Burbigs to 917-444-7150 to be the first to know about my upcoming shows and tours. This is a great one with Chris Fleming. He roast me in his new special, so I roasted him. him back. I got my chance. Roost him back. Like I said, he's had a big run in the last couple years, and we talk about the perils that come with that. Artistically, we both work out new jokes. I was really pleasantly surprised he came with some new jokes. We also break news about Chris Fleming playing a role in the new Jod Apatow film. And I do too, apparently. It's a great one. Join my conversation with the great Chris Fleming.

This is a great one. At one point in this, especially, you refer to Terry Gross as Teresa Disgusting. Like, where did that come from? And have you heard from Ms. Gross? No, I'm keeping, I mean, I'm throwing rocks at her window. She doesn't, you negotiate with terrorists. Terry doesn't negotiate with terrorists. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.

I've got your attention. But Terry, Vulture communicated to her through email about, about it and she wrote something cryptic. Oh, really? In favor, she liked it, but I don't think she said. Oh, she said she liked it? She said something like, how does he know that I'm... Disgusting?

Violent. Yeah, like, because she's so punk. I saw a photo for her accepting an award at the IHeart Radio, and she's dressed like Mad Max. She's in like a full leather, steampunk goggles, falconer's glove. She's badass. She's completely badass. I made a short film with her. What?

Fresh Air, Too Fresh Too Fresh Too Furious. I wrote and directed a short film, I swear to God. Wait, that's like exactly what I'm... So you're picking up on the same thing I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You called it too fresh, too furious? Too fresh, too furious, yeah. Wait, so why are we both thinking that about...

I'm literally doing the bit where she's... Totally. Totally. Yeah, Fresh Air, Two, Fresh Too Too Furious. I produced it for This American Life Live event in 2012. When they had you on Retainer. When Ira Glass had you chained to the radiator, like Black Snake moan. What else happened, Mike?

Then what? What else are you sad about, Mike? Any other injuries I should be aware of? Oh, my God. I was like a doctor meets a dramatur. Yeah, yeah. Wait, in your special, you suggest that I look like a guy in a freaky Friday movie who plays both parts and also a guy who sells wordable spoilers to the FBI.

Yeah, a Freaky Friday, you look like a father and son, Freaky Friday in the same body. I thought this while I was looking at my little cousin, my cousin's child. I was like, this guy, he's six. Why am I getting a familiar vibe? This guy looks like Mike. And then, yeah, that you sell Wardle spoilers to the FBI. It's pretty close. It's pretty close.

That's not so far off. I like that someone would tip off the FBI to Whirl Spoilers. Wordle got me into Crossword. Now I'm fully into Crossword. Do you do Crossword? That's because you're more intellectual. intellectually curious in me. I like the slam dunk of the whirdle and then I'm done for intellectual curiosity. I knew I learned this morning that that narcissism is coming because I type my own name.

My own name was my first guess in Whartle. Oh, wow. I wrote Chris. Not good. Not good. Here's what I wrote for Burns for you if I ever do a comedy special where I just make fun of other comedians like you did. You make fun of me. First of all, you make fun of me. You make fun of Seth Myers. Make fun of terrible. gross. I'm trying to think of who else do you go after? I look at last, it's one of that you heard from everybody? You're in my paintbox is what it is. Okay. It's you are, you are a color in my, you are, you know, it's a, I talk about you in every

special. Why, why, why did Monet keep painting water lilies? Why did the black-eyed piece keep singing about an imminent party? That's right. You know, why do they keep writing about this imminent party? You spill out in these lines from time to time, as Joan, as Joni Mitchell. says. It gives me hope. It gives me hope. Here's what I wrote. Chris Fleming is like if the movie Janet Planet was a comedian.

Chris Fleming is like if Big Bird went to Wesleyan. Chris Fleming is like if Harry Stiles's publicist was like this but ugly. Oh my God. Chris Fleming, or as I like to call him, gender fluid Dane Cook. You whispered that in my ear

after that benefit as you stormed out. Chris Fleming is like if Conan O'Brien gave up. Oh my God. Chris Fleming is like if Kermit the Frog fucked one of the rats from Muppets Take Manhattan. You mean Rizzo? One of the rats?

Yeah, Rizzo. That's the king rat. Yeah, yeah. That's the king rat. And which one was impregnated? Kermit or the frogs. Frogs can do anything. You know they can will themselves to pregnancy, the frogs?

Is that true? I think so. Wow. I mean, I'm starting this rumor. I'm still stuck on Janet Paul. If Janet was a comedian. Right.

If Harry Styles was, if Harry Styles was ugly. Oh, God. This is all we have. Just light burns. Light toasting. Yeah, light toasting.

Netflix has the roasts and we have light, light burns. Oh my God. Roasts. Have you done one? I would never. Here's what I do. You throw them all top cocktail.

No, I know. And then you leave. That is what you do. And then I go back to the shadows. Yeah, you go after people. You said this last time you're on the podcast because I brought up the Bo Burnham thing and you go, I'm like. Yeah, and now every video was like, what's the boberna in the sewers? And the Bo Burnham thing was like one throwaway line.

And now everyone's hunting for that. Oh, interesting. You set the bloodhounds on me. I know. Well, because. It wasn't even that, it wasn't even that crazy what I said. It was pretty innocuous. Do you feel like now that?

you are, first of the last time you were on the podcast, we titled it, why isn't this person more famous? I think that was the title. How is this comedian not more famous? That's how it is in the Dewey Decimal System. Yeah, and now, but now you're huge. I think your special is huge. The New York Times is the best comedy special of the year so far. And so they said that like January 2nd. Yeah, early January. They said it's best so far. No, but it's a it's a it's fantastic it's a phenomenal special and thanks man i do think it's the best comedy special so far and honestly like funniest comedy special i can remember thanks man in the last few years i mean yeah even mark marron i'm not agreeing with i said yeah even mark mrs no you

you guys have been so sweet i mean you called me the morning after yeah yeah marron said it gave him hope for comedy or something and and then his heart grew four sizes Yeah. Well, he was wandering his house in that video. Did he see? Yeah. Oh, is he? How many sizes did the Grinches grow?

It was 12? Yeah, 12. The Grinch went from a 10 and a half to a 12. Oh, is that what it is? I think anthropologists studied it. And that's what it was. But Mark doesn't like anything. Other than people are older than him.

He likes older, older people. I loved talking to Mark on his podcast. That's good. He's got a really, really nice giggle. Occasionally. Yeah. He's. Shee.

It was like, I was like very, I was ready. I thought he was going to like slam me over a railing and just like absolutely tar and feather me. And he was, he didn't. And I was like, I felt like I dodged a bullet. No, I think, you know, I think you're appealing to him for, I would say similar reasons that you're appealing to me, which is like. The body. Your body is tight. And also crevacious.

you've got great flexibility. You took the words right out of my mouth. No, it's, no, I think, like, I think what it's, what's appealing is that you are an alt comic who work, who works with audiences. Mm. And it's hard to come by. That work, oh, man. With audiences, real people.

Yeah, I try to. You know? I mean, you should have seen me at Esther's fall. You see that. I wasn't working with it. Oh, really? No, no, that was bad. I followed you at the ally coalition.

It was impossible. No, you did great. It was impossible. You like slayed. I went home in pure depression. You were, you did leave in a rage. I was not in a great mood. If you had, if you had more testosterone,

it would have been a fist of the drywall situation. If you were, if you were Marshall Mathers, it would have been a fist of the drywall. But instead it was putting the P coat on. I know. And then sending me a lot of all caps texts. I will be You wrote

No I didn't You wrote something like Always Like always be afraid of Someone who thinks they're about to bomb At a benefit Yeah Yeah

Yeah Like I was sure I was going to bomb That's what you said to me Yeah Sometimes you know You ever go like Okay I can't I just can't bomb right now

Yeah And then I do No I know And so am I But sometimes you're like I need to Like in front of family He needs to go okay

Yeah I had to bomb in front of a lot Lord recently. Oh, really? Yeah. I had never met Lord. It was like a Grammy's party. It was all these music execs talking in the audience.

Like we were really doing ambient stand-up, truly, like a jazz trio. Oh, brutal. And Lord was side stage, and I had never met Lord. And I was like, Lord, do not watch this. Oh, my God. And she's like, no, it's going to be excellent. Oh, my God. And she was bombing in front of, no.

You can't. Is she saying anything afterwards? She said something like, oh, my audience is like that too. Like people were just talking. Oh, okay. So I think it was like, shit, I didn't think about that. In stadiums, people are talking. I don't know.

What do you, now that you're, now that you are successful, what does it feel like? What's the, what's the worst part? What's the best part of having, I mean, because you can, you can be humble all you want, but the truth is like, you're packing theaters nationwide, you know, you're really popular. People love the special.

It's a grim reality. I mean, now it just means I'm going to have. have to play Jake Shane's grandma in something in a euphoria reboot about elder abuse that's all that's all that's all it that's all it means you know that you're in judd appetow's movie yes I'm in it too are we going to do it together I don't think we're in the same scenes are we going to be in savanna at the same time yes I think so I'm going to go hunting I'm there in June yeah let's go hunting I'm there in June I don't even know what I'm allowed to say I don't know anything you just know they asked you to do it, you said yes.

Yes. You read your lines? Your lines are funny. Are they? I haven't read it yet. I skimmed it and I was like, yeah. You're just like, sure. But the reason I didn't study it was they were like, we're going to be really loose on the day.

Right, right, right, right. Understood. Yeah. What was the question? It was something about, I mean, I, okay, I'm very grateful. Okay. I feel like I'm a major relief. I'm definitely getting a lot more dudes on the street now

It used to be just like art therapists Right And now it's like More men say hi I More men say hi More men are yelling More men are yelling

Chris And I easy I spook easy Right You know like a wild Okay so that's good It's fine Yeah sure

It's fine I don't know I'm getting a lot more People reaching out of numbers I don't have saved. Yeah. You know, hey Chris. Yeah, yeah, sure.

We met in 2011. Yeah. Okay. Where have you been? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I've been dumpster diving. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a, yeah, I think there's a little bit of, like, resentment of like, where have you

all been, and the people that are reaching out. Yeah. I'm thrilled to have, to be augmenting the, the base. What's the worst part about it? Okay. You know what it feels like? It's like. When you can scheme in the shadows, that's where the art happens.

Yeah, I know what you mean. And then all of a sudden you feel yourself on this track, it's like machinery. And when you feel like you are being mechanized, it's like how do you ever, in a way, you get better at the press stuff, I think. But it's also like, I'm like, when am I going to be able to go back under my rock? Totally. And do the thing that gets me the thing that you guys are all liking. Yeah.

Because that does, I think, involve like a lot. a quiet, who's, and then a lot of, uh, peace, not like full recluse style, but like,

I don't know, you must feel that. Yeah, yeah. Being part, like, part of that machine. Right.

If you're talking to Lord, how can you talk about Lord on stage? Oh, no, easily. I, I mean, I talk about you.

I talk about you like every night. Am I still in the mix? Oh, this is a little. I'm like with you tonight on Seth Meyer. Oh, that's hilarious. Yeah. At Union Hall, you said, the eyes of the woman in the portrait that hangs on the back wall of the venue connect to a direct feed in Mike for Biggley's office where he sits waiting to ruin some young comedian's life.

Who is that in reference to? Whose life have I ruined? No, no, no, no. I think I said a new, like a comedian, something about ruining the comedy, like making it one man. Oh, God. You were there? That's how this got back to the source. Our producer Mabel was here.

She came to the office one day and said. You're not going to believe what Chris Fleming said on stage. He goes, the woman's in the painting's eyes. I also was talking about you instead of getting the light in Brooklyn. Yeah. You have attached hotaches to us. And if we run our time, you set the hotachi off. Oh, my God.

Well, which comedians' lives have I ruined? No, no, you haven't ruined, no, no, you haven't ruined any lives. You definitely may, I mean, I'm sure you have ruined lives, but I mean in terms of, I was speaking about the IRA classification of comedy. Right, right, right. I get it. Oh, I get it. Which you are very good at yourself. But I have to say, like, I, what I like about narrative comedy is that it keeps me one to the next.

next to the next to the next. Like most comedy specials, I don't make it through. No. I get 20 minutes in and I go like, it's the same. The repetition of the joke style

is the same. Yeah. I will say, you're special. It's not narrative. And yet, I didn't turn it off at 20 minutes.

It just, there's something about the causality that's baked in that I don't understand. So maybe explain it to me. No, I don't. I mean,

it's all, I mean, I think less about an hour. I'm never trying to build an hour. Yeah. It's just like spilling out desperately. And then there's like two moments where I'm like, oh, that actually really flows really well. But I do think, I mean, I learned a lot from Kellyanne Conway.

Kelly and Conway, yeah. We've all learned a lot from Kelly and Conway. But if you answer a question a certain way, you can make things seem like they're like it's, things are related. Like the way I'm thinking about her is you could ask her a question and she could say whatever the, fuck she wanted right if you if you if you match the tone of the way the question was being asked and so and so it's like in not that i'm saying that she's my muse but in terms of the way that she know this have you mentioned this before yeah we zoom all the we zoom this morning um no i think it's like since it's always coming from my perspective and i'm feeling this need

need to, uh, desperate need to communicate it. I think it feels connected. I've never been like, what's the theme here? I could, I couldn't do that.

I don't understand myself. And I don't care to understand myself enough like that. So, but it's funny because if you look at, if you look at your career, it was like for a long time, it was all spilling out of you and you were bombing. And now,

yeah, it's all spilling out of you and you're killing. So it's like, How do you get from A to B? I'm still bombing sometimes. You are not. I refuse to even believe that. But how do you get from A to B?

Because if you listen to this podcast and you're a comedian and you create things and you're like, wait, Chris Fleming, I don't get it. How did he go from being struggling doing what he's doing to being successful at what he's doing, especially when you're saying there's no method to the madness? Doubling down, I think. Okay. And I think just tuning out other trends also, I think is really good. Yeah. Keeping your head down. Yeah.

And kind of just really, really being like, I need to say this. And also doing things that are really frightening and really feel like pushing yourself and counterintuitive. Yeah. Destructive sometimes. Self-destructive. Yeah, sure. Hard drugs.

No, no. I mean, in terms of saying, you know, Things where people like, whoa, you know, talking shit in certain ways. Just kind of, I don't know, just letting it, letting it out and truly trying to get honest with, and you know what? And not, like, getting the closer that you can talk to your audience the way that you talk to like your high school friends. Right. I think is kind of what I've been trying to do. Right.

You're trying to connect to your like middle school sleepover self. Dude, exactly. the giggly. I think that's sort of the ball game in some ways. It's like these shows, these comedy shows, it really is like a sleepover with a few hundred friends. After 45 minutes, like there does feel,

almost every show feels giddy sleepover energy where people don't even know what they're, I mean, I think there's a hypnosis, like they're hypnotic quality of comedy. Or sometimes people, I completely agree. Sometimes you're like,

why are people laughing at this? Yes. Like, you surprise, like, I'll keep, I'll get closer and closer to truly entertaining myself on stage and being amazed that people are with me on something. Yeah.

It's always, it's always shocking. And I think that after enough time, it's like, I think that comedy often, like, language is really limiting and things that don't make sense. But I think if there's a feeling behind it or if it represents something, then the words aren't even as important as the feeling. I totally agree. I had to run years ago at Cherry Lane where I was, like, working on between. And what I found was the more insane the show went, the more off the rails it went, the more the audience was locked in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But there's a diminishing return at a certain point because you're like, you have that audience.

And then you're like, I'm going to do this insane thing that makes no sense the next night with another. And you can't do it. You can't recreate it. I remember I had a joke that made no sense where I go, where I go. I go, you know this from my comedy special. Thank God for Joaquin Phoenix. And the audience would laugh so hard. Not because it made any fucking sense,

but because I took one word that they know, thank God for jokes, and subbed out another insane word. And I just said it with confidence. You know, it's funny. And then I said it's the next night and nothing. Right. And it's the funniest thing the night before.

Because they, there's something so animal about an audience, and that's what's terrifying. They're like, it's like, they're like smelling the freshness. Totally. And if you try to, that's why, you know, I mean, we've talked about this the first time you do something. That's why at Largo I filmed the first bit. The first time I'm doing a bit and put it out.

Because sometimes like the second through seventh time, it's like terrible. Yeah, you're one of the rare people who films first versions of jokes and then you post them on Instagram and don't actually release them sometimes. Oh, no. If I do it, I try not to ever do it again. And so, like, there's someone like my best, on the best, I love this bit about snacks of Trader Joe's that only women can see, and I only did that once. Because I just, it's a huge bit.

It's long. Like, people send that around. Oh, oh. No, no, it's a, it's a popular as hell bit. It's a crazy thing about, if you have two shows in one night, it's like having to kind of sage yourself from a good, the first, when you connect with the crowd, there's almost a resentment about, like, oh, we had a really good time.

and then having to do another thing. You have to like totally men in black memory erase your experience. Otherwise, because if you chase that connection again, they're like, what do you, we don't have that. I'm pretty much not doing second shows for that reason anymore.

I'm doing it for stamina reasons, but. Because you want to. I don't have the stamp. I mean, I was doing two, so I would do two hours, sometimes I would do two hour shows this summer.

That's how I got in such good shape of the special. I was just doing like, overexerting myself for sometimes three and a half four. hours a night. Wow. And it was just... Oh, it's brutal. It's crazy. We got through the first page of questions. How did you... Is there a treat? How did your bones get so long? They're long? I don't know. These are the questions we've prepared. How did your bones get so long? I've never heard a phrase like that. I mean, I assume it's through good nutrition as a child. even though I don't I don't care to eat too much now I'm post food I've probably talked to you about this

oh you post food I'm emotionally I get room bored I feel I feel like really bored by food oh interesting are you post sex because also those things are tied like some people on the ozempic and the Wagoves they don't like sex or food like that's one of the thing you thought I mean imagine if um and your specialty reference Seth Myers Adam Driver, Terry Gross. Oh, we had to do so much for the Adam Driver thing. We had to, the night before, I was using him singing being alive and marriage story in the theater. And then they were like, oh, we can't do this.

Oh, I'm sure. Yeah, but I was crazy in thinking we could. Right, because you can't sing the song because you need the rights of the song. In Sondheim and Adam, all these people are like really difficult, litigious people. And so we had to re-record my friend Brian had to come over and riff a little piano thing. And I sang as Adam Driver, and I'm doing like a, I'm Adam Driver. I'm just like singing about, I'm tall. Yeah.

That's so funny. Yeah. So you used to actually do an impersonation of him doing it in the movie? I'm trying to encapsulate the feeling of the Sondheim song. And he's saying something like, I want like, um, uh, he wants to be around. Keep me around. I'll sit in the car. I'll sit in the back.

It was, if you listen to the lyrics, it's like really sad. It's really desperate. Oh my God. Yeah. I didn't realize that. Yeah. There's a great example of limitations being funnier. Funnier.

Yeah. Like, it's kind of good. I know. It was a fun exercise. We had like, it was the night before we had to turn in the whole thing. So we just, Brian is this musical genius. And you just riffed to the piano and I just sang it. And we just sent that.

Well, you know, Adam Driver, he has a whole thing where he won't watch his own performances. Right. And he also won't watch your performances. Yeah. He's got a version. It's on my burn list. He has a phobia of his own and mine personally. I wonder if he'll see it.

Do you think people sent it to him maybe? I don't even want to think about that because I couldn't handle it being on his bad side. Because he'll give you a glare. Oh, Gosselin gave me a glare in a pizza shop. Oh, Gosselin did? It was a do not even think about it. This was like 2019. It was 2019.

It's what you have. to do Christian Bale gave it to me too it's a just walking by and it was like if you really wow you even think you know you should have said it was like a Swedish extremist you know you should have said to Ryan Gosling where's Ken tell me where this was pre-ken tell me where Ken is this is pre-can if this was post-ken I wouldn't even look at him do the James Lipton the James Lipton can we talk to Ken inside the actor studio can we start weeping can we talk to Ken he talks because and smooth.

Were you an actor studio guy? Do you ever watch those? All the time, man. Oh, it's amazing. I'm a lipped in head. It's some of... I watch them all. The camera of quality, it's like 420p.

It's some of the worst. It's like, it's like pre-mini DVD. It's like, and this was well into the 2010s. Their pencil sketches, basically. Yeah. Yeah, it's like Peppa Pig animation. And it's so good. Who's your favorite?

Well, obviously Bradley Cooper. Well, he's in the audience a lot. Right? Isn't he like... He's in the audience for, I think, De Niro. Yeah, yeah. Sweeping. I keep inhaling my hair. The one I always think of is

Phil Hoffman. I don't think I've seen that one. Fisimor Hovon one's really powerful. Yeah. He says something that always stuck with me. Not that this interview is about me, but let's be honest. It is. This is about you.

No, I always think of this line. He goes, when you get an audition, it is an opportunity to perform. Whoa. And it really changed the way I think about like almost everything. I think it's an opportunity to disgrace myself. That too. That makes you better.

And waste casting director's time. But it is like the small shows, the show at Largo, the show of the seller, it's the same as a 3,000 Cs. theater in Milwaukee. I mean, it's all of a piece. It's all the same. Well, you grow more in the small shows. We've talked about this. The theater presentational, the smaller rooms, that's when you're kind of really growing and writing, I think. I also recommend that people, wherever you are, try to go see small comedy shows locally. It's really interesting to see someone in a room with 50 people. You ever think about local art scenes, how many there are? It takes your breath away.

It's crazy. It's kind of, it's kind of, it's kind of. It's kind of, you know, it's kind of, you Kind of like where it's happening. Of course. I mean, I think Outcast talks about this, that all good things start in little rooms. I think they're a natural quote about that. Of course. Of course they do. Because you're not going to start out.

Get to the small rooms. In Madison's a regard. No, I know. Yeah. Well, some people don't know that's a problem. But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's like wherever you are, go to the small rooms. It's interesting.

That's where the good stuff is, I think. Of course. Especially, by the way, even if you go to a lineup and 10 people and they all stink except one. Do you freak out if other people are laughing? at the other comics and you're like I'm so different from that I think about it a lot me too showcase shows have haunted me always yeah yeah if they're laughing at that if they're laughing at that they're gonna kill me which is totally illogical it is yeah but I still feel it I mean you yeah

yeah it's a terrible feeling no I remember like so many acts where like it's so dirty or it's so loud and I'm like I don't they're not gonna like this they're not gonna like my story about high school wrestling but that is really but that is like a really good lesson um someone told me something like people are always ready to be like amazed by yeah they're always open to a new like to to show them something that they don't even know that they like yeah yeah and that's crazy to have that confidence But that's, but that gets me back to complimenting you, which is that you're not like anybody, which is part of the reason it's so satisfying that you're having a cultural moment right now. Because it's like, oh, it's such a relief when someone gets popular and you're like, and I like them.

But that also, that's intimidating because then, you know, there's something very cozy about being considered underrated. And then you can very quickly dip into overrated. Yeah, yeah, you can quickly dip into overrated. You don't want to, I don't want to dip into overrated. That's what I've always remained underrated. That's the key. I've remained underrated for years. I think being, being a performer that, like, everyone thinks they're the only one that gets it.

Yeah. It's like millions of people feel that. Magical. That's good. You make a lot of faces in your special. What's your favorite face to make? See, I do the rule that Helen Mirr, and says in her master class,

which you don't look at yourself in the mirror when you're acting. I don't think about the face. Okay. What I do, I try to embody, I try to remember a fearful thing if I'm afraid, if I'm trying to like, this is like, like, it's like a Stanislavski method.

I just do that. Yeah. And so I'm not even thinking about what the face is. Nice. How come none of the faces are attractive? I could tell. I could tell you were pulling that slingshot. I'm just saying try.

You're right. I could try to be prettier. I could try. Are you going to become so famous for this hair that when you someday lose your hair, you have the wig, you have the Chris Fleming, mid-30s wig?

You know my mom's biggest fear is I'm going to have a ponytail on my 50s. Doesn't care what I do in terms of crime, in terms of anything. Just Chris promise me. You won't have a point.

Don't be, don't be like one of the guys at Berkeley. Yeah, yeah, sure. At the Ben Jerry factory. I do fantasize about a short haircut. Yeah. I fantasize about it. I can see that, yeah. When I think of myself, I think of, I remember my, I don't think of myself with long hair.

Because I had to marry Martin Bob forever. I get that. And I also get that, like, I don't think it would actually hold you back because your physicality, I think, is more pronounced than your hair. Part of the, part of the thing about the hair. was there was this crazy thing that I had as a young person. I know I'm in a conservative area when I walk into a restaurant and like families are all like, like parents and children are like. Oh, interesting.

Yeah, yeah. Like happens a lot. Right, they're like looking over at you. Yeah. Like father and sons. Really? If I see them in golf clothes, I'm like, oh, I'm about to get fucking roasted. Like father or son bonding.

Yeah. And there's something that I think I remember as a younger person being like wanting to be like, no, no, no, here, like, I'm in on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I think leaning into this kind of thing, I think that was part of the look. Did you have any, were there any lines when you're preparing the special that just didn't work during the taping? You cut? There was one line that didn't work and I got mad at the crowd for not laughing at it.

Oh, no, it's it. And so I kept it. It's in, yeah, yeah. No, I love that. I was like, let's keep, everyone agreed we got to keep the, oh, that's great. Yeah, I think that's kind of humiliating. Did anything not work? I mean, okay, look, yeah, when you're doing the special, this was, I got so much great advice,

and you gave me good advice, Ali Wong gave me great advice. She told me to look to the exit signs. I do that one. Because it's like, otherwise you're telling scary stories. That's right. No, exit signs is good. It's really helpful. and there was something.

Because to look above people, they see all your eyes. And if you look below them, they're seeing your closed eyes. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. And she also told me it's for the cameras. It's not for the crowd. That's right.

And I love that. And also, Bill, my director, was like, it's not going to be your best show. Like, you have to like let go of the idea of the special being your best. You're just treated like a road to date. Right. And that's so much of like people that are successful are. are like operating at like what 70% of what of their capacity I imagine or of what they're used to in terms of a crap like we're not seeing the camera's never around for the best shows I know I know

which is part of the magic of it like I was like oh why don't we shoot in in Nashville no Chicago was app like it was incredible it was perfect for me but like as you're doing it you're like ah shit this would have been great or thank God we didn't do it in Philly thank God we didn't or no but I thought it was I thought it was an incredible. I loved. Electric performance. Thank you. Thank you.

Great. The outfit's doing a lot of heavy lifting. Yeah, the outfit's doing a lot of heavy lifting, but I feel like that crowd just like was in on the joke in the best way. Chicago is so willing to get silly in a way. Yes. I think what you're doing is like risky in the best possible way, which is that like it might not work.

It shouldn't. It shouldn't. No, I'm always surprised when it does. Like, it might not work. Like, actually, this whole thing of ranting and kind of, like, pirouetting across the stage and, like, over-emphasizing. Like, you might hit a crowd where it's like, yeah, well, I don't know what you're talking about. Totally. No.

No, I mean, that's why it's so great when it does, like, for my crowds, because I perform for not my crowds. And they have that experience a lot of the time. like what are you do like like um i went out on stage opening for somebody and it was silent except for one guy who just said let's go weird out oh my god let's go let's go let's go weird out and then it's like why am i why am i even bothering why is that heckle so good it's so let's go weird out it's so it's so damning it's so damning it's so damning because you know Okay, you learn, okay, immediately they're not going to be on board. They don't care to.

He goes, let's go weird out. What did you say? Did you get them? I think I went, oh. Yeah. Okay. Did you get them, though? No.

Okay, so you literally didn't get them. No, it was like 3,000 people. It was a civic center. Multiple guys got kicked out. Okay, this is a slow round. Oh. Last time you didn't answer this question, what are people's, favorite and least favorite thing about you.

Okay, least favorite. Yeah. I can be flaky. Okay, yeah. I think you didn't show up like two or three times of this podcast. I'm sorry. I'm sorry about that. I wasn't going to bring it up.

And then you were late today. I wasn't going to bring that up either. But it's true. As you're saying it, I'm like, right. That's true. So people resent me for that. Right. Always have.

Freud would say you just don't want to be there. Whoa. Yeah. Whoa. Yeah. No I want to No

I want to be here I told you how soft your towel is in the bathroom Oh yeah That's a sign of someone I said it's lovely to be back here So flaky Flaky and what was people's favorite thing about me Um

Loyalty Loyalty Yeah I buy that Yeah definitely What's the best piece of advice Someone's giving you that you used In terms of craft

Or in terms of Sure, or life, or life. I mean, when I was driving out to L.A., as I was leaving the driveway, my mom said, don't forget who you are. And I think that's really, really good. Then why did you forget? Blunt head trauma. Well, at least you're... An overindulgence in mimosa's and mojitos from 2012 to 22.

At least you know where you went wrong. And then craft wise? It's got to be Jenkins talking about like, he was like, well, yeah, you can get as crazy as you want up there, Chris. But you know what you're talking about. But if they don't know what you're talking about, he was like, all you got to do is let them in and be really clear. And then you can get as crazy as you want.

And that combination about clarity. That's super smart. That's Rick Jenkins who started the comedy studio. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In Boston.

Yeah, super smart. The best comedy mentor, yeah. I got a similar piece of advice when I was starting. out opening for Jake Johansson where he goes a lot of times you're not conveying the thing that's in your head exactly and that's why they're not laughing and you just need to explain it better right right it's the same thing sometimes you do a bit you're like oh I guess it's not funny it's just funny to me it's like no no they simply don't understand what you're talking about yeah yeah no and I do you ever do this thing where I write so frantically and then I look back and I'm sure we talked about this

and then I look back and I'm like oh that the whole juice of the thing, I completely forgot to include in the bit. 100%. That's, it's so weird. Sometimes when something stops working, I have to look, listen to the words and be like, wait, what are, what are the words used to be? Yeah. What are the words now? Like, what happened? Where'd the comedy go? Because some of it, there's, you write it and then it's like you are trying to explain to them what you were writing. So it's like, there's like another, there's a rewriting. There's like a lot of steps and then a lock can get lost in that translating. 100%. Because you write something and you're like and then you can't say that. I don't know. It's all crazy.

But so much of it is just clear communication and they often are willing to go with you, even if it's like weird, which is a term I resent. Yeah. People like you're weird. I'm like, what are you talking about? No, you're pretty straightforward, I think. Thank you. Yeah. I appreciate that. You're doing a lot of bits about pop culture and being a goofball. Yeah, yeah, living every life. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. They make me out to be like, I'm girl interrupted all the time. You read the profile? I sound like girl interrupted.

Wait, who said that? Did someone say that? No, it's see it. That's how I'm described. Right. I sound like a maniac. Yeah, you're more like girl and polite conversation. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you, Mike. People don't talk about, yeah. The New England politeness. You're more like girl social. socially adept that's girl

comma socially adept yeah girl comma socially adept why would we see that this sounds nice this sounds totally yeah totally manageable girl socially adept we went to see girl socially adept it was pretty boring

it was just smooth jazz over five female cast members who were getting along well yeah they all seemed fine no conflict they were at a bookstore yeah I think we'll go to jokes. Great. I don't know.

You're going to edit on other people's jokes? Here's what, I took this out for you. Put something where kid your vase material in here? Oh, wait. Do you have any new jokes? Hit me with new jokes. Oh, shit. Anything in your notebook?

Anything half developed? I'm trying to do this thing that, again, exactly what we're talking about. I don't think it's, I don't think I'm clarifying it. enough, but about how, like, my social circle is pretty drum-circally. And so there's that people are very tethered to those characters this whole time. And then the second they get engaged, how quickly they're willing to jump off the anti-establishment. And it's like to go from crust punk to Haley Bieber as soon as the ring shows up. And it's like, there's something like you used to free bleed on your enemy's couches.

and now you're a little miss espresso martini walking down the aisle to a cello cover of Happy by Farrell Oh my God, that's so funny. Which again, and then if, yeah, and then it's something like, yeah, it's just talking about freaks. Does it work?

I feel like that would work. It has, and it hasn't. It's so funny. Okay. Like which part of it doesn't work? I think I freak out. I freak out a lot in the beginning of a show. I'm like, so energetic.

Right. And that I can't, like, control myself. And so I think I just need to set it up clearly. Oh, that's interesting. No, I didn't get it at the beginning. Okay, yeah, yeah. And I think, like, I was kind of lost. Yes, that's the audience.

Are lost. Right. Yeah. And then also the references are, like, too much. Like, Haley Bieber. I'm like, I don't quite get it. I mean, Kim Kardashian's too easy. right right you know what I mean

thread that needle yeah I don't maybe needs to be a better person than Haley B you know Ashley Tisdale I don't know but I but the what is it the martinis is that what's the line again I love talking about espresso martinis

Is there some martini is right Anyone having espresso martini It's like you should be put on it's like when you get Sudafed it's like you know how you get to give your license you know because you might be making math you get an espresso martini That's a bridezilla way in the happen right there

That is You're basic I'm going to paraphrase this back to you. The bit is fundamentally about like your friends like caving. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. To just like being, being, you know, conventional. Copping the balls of the man. It's like people who retreat S&L.

I'm, I used to do that and I got. Grassroots organizing for Lauren Michaels. I got burned for someone. What about you? I checked into my hotel room and the room had this smell that, It's like cigarettes meets mildew meets maple syrup. And I wake up in the morning and the smell is gone. And then I realize the smell isn't gone.

I just am the smell now. I'm like, I like it. Let's go get some pancakes and a pack of Marlboro Reds. It's like a zombie movie. I'm like, hey, where'd the zombies go? You know. Totally. Totally.

I like the maple syrup isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Because that's nice. And that makes me know that you're telling you. telling the truth. No, totally. Because you wouldn't, you couldn't.

That was from morning pages. That was literally from morning pages. I mean, I was doing the morning. Wow. Yeah, yeah. That was me like waking up at a hotel room and like San Luis. Yeah,

we do afternoon pages. Those are, those are painful. Those are less funny. Those are, yeah. Well, my theory about morning pages is if you write down your stream of consciousness

before you're like afraid of the world, you end up with like a child like a child right wonder. Gutterol kind of like what you're actually thinking, your sensory, which is literally where that came from. But I think it's funny like that thing of like, of like you you think some the smell is gone the smell ain't gone my friend the smell is with us you are you are the smell yeah i really like that i really like um i really like um also to go back to

outcast big boy does this a lot like talking about like the sound of aluminum cans in a bag you know that thing talking about just like basic feel like uh talking about the olfactory when you tap into sensory stuff like that. Oh, that's interesting. Oh, yeah, then the audience can get kind of sensed, you know, it's kind of, um, big boy talks about that in terms of instrumentation. Sorry, he just has, they often have line, made me want to be like, sometimes the best analogy is just like a very, like Tom Waits will, we'll do something so highfalut and then talk about like, you know, like a hammer. I don't know, like very, like very, uh, I don't know, I just, I like that kind of, right, the simple, the simplicity. I don't know, yeah. Yeah. And then

I wrote a, I have a serious question about swim meets. If you kill yourself when the other kids are swimming, do you still get credit for seeing your own kid swim? Wait, wait, wait, wait. So you are at the swim meet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a little disorienting. And you're talking about how you're getting, it's so arduous you were getting ideations.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do, I feel like you also had a similar bit about the, um, the adventure zone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there is a really nice theme of you being at these. Urban air. Urban air and then urgent care. Yes. That's the sequence.

It's beautiful. No, it's true. And I, yeah, because my joke about swim meets is that it's two, it's two and a half minutes of watching your daughter swim and then four and a half hours of watching other motherfucking kids swim. Which you shouldn't be doing. Yeah, yeah. And all, which is the exact amount of time it takes to to brainstorm every way to kill yourself. Yeah, that is funny. Devastating.

Oh, you know what? Hey, hey, hey, hey, you know what you could throw in there? A little Virginia wolf, throcks in the pockets. Because you're by the body of water. That's good. There you throw, end a little, end with a little. That's nice. Yeah.

I think my best dance move is nodding my head as if to say, yes, this is music. I've been me and asking your best dance move. How do you dance? I was meaning to ask if you'd, how you dance. You should also say that and doing the worm in your head. All right. There's so many problems in the world that can be overwhelming.

So whenever I meet a vegetarian, I'm like, well, it's a start. You know what I mean? Like somehow I can't respect an activist eating a hamburger. I'm not saying that I'm right. I'm just saying it's not my vibe. Like my wife and daughter are both vegetarians. So when I bring meat into the house, I feel like a murderer. I'm like, twas I who killed the chickens.

It's great. Yeah, it's cute. And you should bring up food ink. Oh, yeah, food ink. Yeah, me and the people, if they've seen it within five, food ink within five years. Devastating. That's usually what a vegetarian is.

Yeah. And then after six years, it wears off. Yeah. It's like the Polar Express Bell. It's the Wagovi of vegetarianism. You have a lot of bits, Mike. Remember earlier when I asked you whether sex has gone for you, too? Because everyone's wondering.

You're, um, being here is like being at the gynecologist. This is my yearly, this is my annual burbiglia upskirt. My God, Jesus. Can't we all agree that religions are just hunches? We should rename religions hunches. Which hunch do you belong to? I'm of the Catholic, Catholic hunch. We have this hunch that the son of God came to earth and died for our sins,

so you could open the gates of heaven. You know my favorite part of that? What? There's something very cute about you going. Wait, we read the first two sentences. Religions are just hunches? Can we agree that all religions are just hunches? I like you, and I like you repeating.

We should just rename religion hunches. Period. Something cute about that. I like that a lot. Remember after you did right before you were going to tape, you did The Hour at Largo, and me and Malaney were back. backstage and Malini gave you a beautiful tag and then you asked me if I had anything and I said

that I would find it really satisfying if at some point the special I don't care when you say it's a me a Mike Babiglia and you were like all right Fleming oh that's good oh that's good I like that like that you have any more bits that one bit's great I do want to talk I do want to talk about this is like a little line but when you 23 and me dogs in California, in L.A., like, I have pit bulls, but like every dog in L.A. has a little bit of chihuahua in them. And so I want to, like, I imagine there was like a chihuahua in the 70s who was just like a complete sexual.

And I feel like, who is 23 in me, they're dogs. And people. That's a real thing? People who want to know, people who want to know what's happening. Because then you can be like, oh, I thought this was an American bulldog when in fact, it is a staffy. Oh, wow. Which is what I ran into. But anyway, I definitely want to explore the Chihuahua who's getting around in the 70s,

and I feel like the safeties are probably going to make a documentary about them. I feel like we're good. We're done? Well, we have to do a working out for a cause, a nonprofit that you like to contribute to. Okay. And then I will link to them and contribute to them. Okay. That's what we do.

Planned Parenthood, man. Planned Parenthood, yeah. They always need help. Yeah. What about you? I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I see your protesting outside one recently. It was protesting, um, non-intertaining comedy. I was like, we're done with him, we're done with him.

It was by you. No, I got, no, I felt, I felt, um, um, yeah, um, yeah. So, I did a benefit for them when I, bombed in 2024. I don't know I don't believe you I'm I think you're starting to strain credibility with these bombing stories strain credibility I think you are because you you're you're doing your you speak beautifully sometimes you're doing very well oh thank you we're going to contribute to planet parenthood bring the link to them in the show notes um Chris Fleming I'm thrilled at your success I think that we should take partial credit here at the podcast oh 95 round floor

Chris Fleming. Or maybe like third floor. Maybe 35th. 35th of 70 of a high rise. Yes. Are you predicting my dad that's 70? No, but I think it's I'm thrilled. I mean, as a friend, I consider you a friend, like I'm thrilled for your success personally. As a fan of comedy, I am thrilled that people get what the hell you're doing. Thank you. Thank you, Mike. And I really appreciate everything that you've said and your support. You're the best.

All right. And this has been really fun. Good night. Good night. Working it out because it's not done. Working it out because there's no... That's going to do it for another episode of Working It Out. You can follow Chris Fleming on Instagram at Chris Fleming,

his new special live from the Palace is on HBO Max. Check out berbiggs.com to sign up for my mailing list. Get the text message alerts to be the first to know about my upcoming shows. You know, the full video of this one, and man, are you going to want to watch the video?

Because Chris Fleming is a spectacle. He is a physical specimen unparalleled, I believe, in comedy right now. It's all on our YouTube channel. At Mike Berbiglia. Subscribe because we're going to be posting more and more videos. Our

producers of working it out are myself along with Peter Salomon, Joseph Barbiglia, Mabel Lewis, and Gary Simons, sound mixed by Shub Sarin, supervising engineer Kate Balinski. Special thanks to Jack An Antonoff and Bleachers for their music. An album coming your way. Special thanks to my wife, the poet, J. Hope Stein, and our daughter, Una, who built the original radio for Made of Pillows. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. If you enjoy the show, please rate us and review us on Apple Podcast.

I just noticed the other day we're chasing 5,000 user reviews. reviews, that's good. People go, oh, oh, that's a real podcast. There's thousands of thousands of podcasts, but this one has 5,000 user reviews. We should try it. Because that's really what makes us excited is when new people find the podcast, which is why we encourage you to tell your friends, tell your enemies. Tell Adam Driver.

You know, next time you run into Adam Driver, go, hey, I know you don't watch your own work. But check out this podcast. Mike Bribigley's working out. It's where Mike Bribigley talks about creative process with other creatives. Maybe skip the Chris Fleming episode. Thanks, everybody. We're working it out. We'll see you next time.