Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 21. Bowen Yang: How Do You Write a Sketch For SNL?

Episode Date: November 9, 2020

Bowen Yang joins Mike this week for an episode that is as hilarious as it is honest. Listen as Bowen and Mike discuss everything from gay conversion therapy and googling yourself to high school theatre fails and psychedelic shrooms. Bowen and Mike work out standup bits and potential sketches you may be seeing on SNL soon. Plus, find out the one must-have item you’ve been missing your whole life when using a porto-potty. Please consider donating to: Clinton Hill Fort Greene Mutual Aid https://sites.google.com/view/chfgma-org/home

Hey everybody, it is Mike and we are back with a new episode of Working It Out. By the way, we are doing Working It Out virtually part three. When I say part three, I mean all different material, not in part two and not in part one and with new slow round participants the weekend of thanksgiving so it's like you got thanksgiving on a thursday then it's the virtuals are friday saturday and then we just added a late show saturday which is 9 30 eastern 6 30 pacific because I was getting so many comments in my Instagram and my emails about not, that I don't have any West Coast friendly time.

So I added that. And then one more on Sunday. So get tickets to that at NowhereComedyClub.com. Those shows are so fun and they sell out. So get tickets fast. And today we have a hilarious, hilarious person, Bowen Yang. He is a cast member on Saturday Night Live. He is a wildly talented writer, performer, and podcaster.

He has a great podcast with Matt Rogers called Las Culturistas. And we had a great chat. I just came away from this just going, I want to be better friends with Bowen Yang. And I think you will too. So enjoy Bowen Yang. We're working it. You and I met, it's funny,

I think we did a benefit for Padma Lakshmi together. That's what it was. In 2016 at the Bell House. That was a fun night. It was really fun. Yeah, it was cool. And you know, I was looking at the lineup. Chloe Fineman was on that show too.

Oh my God. Yeah. Isn't that funny? That's all a blur to me now. Honestly, post-pandemic, I'm like, it all has collapsed into one flat circle and I don't know what happened when or who was there or you know

I don't know how you feel that way oh yeah that was lovely and I was pretty starstruck to me that was very cool well I'm nervous talking to you on the podcast because you're one of a handful of people I've had on

who I don't know that well. Like we've met a couple of times, like Hannah Gadsby was like this, where I was like nervous about it. But what makes me less nervous is that you have been called by the New York Times a mensch. A mensch. Oh my God.

Maureen Dowd herself called me a mensch. Maureen Dowd made the headline that you're the mensch of comedy. And then I thought, that was my experience hanging out with you backstage at that show. I was like, I mean, I don't know Bowen very well, but I just, my immediate vibe from you was like, I love this guy. This guy's great. Oh, thanks. That means a lot.

But you're the same, right? Like, you are known to be this, like, you know, like, again, congenial person. And, like, your humor, like, sort of comes from that place. It's not, like, antagonizing. Oh, thanks. I mean, I'd like to think

that's true. I mean, I think it just came from my mom because my mom was just always so nice to strangers. And when I witnessed that as a child, I think there's an imprinting where you go like, well, yeah, that's what you should do, right? Yeah, yeah, for sure. When you see someone else model that, it seems so logical. Totally, totally. I feel the same about my, I feel like they were role models in the sense that they were in these places that like did not know what to make of them.

Like they, so they moved to Australia and that's where my sister and I were born. Yeah. And Australia is sort of notoriously racist towards Asians and the same sort of xenophobic senses. Like people here being like, oh, these immigrants are taking our jobs. I mean, that's kind of the sentiment that's sort of directed towards specifically like Asian people who come from just the Pacific Islands or Asia.

And there's this like, there's that same sort of mentality around that. But I feel like I just saw them kind of rise above it and not let it stick in ways. I mean, I truly, I have not, I have really not seen them loosen the valve too much on all of the race pain that they've experienced. Oh, that's interesting. You know?

I haven't seen them blow up. I haven't seen them really express their, I don't know, like I haven't seen them blow up. I haven't seen them like really like express their like, I don't know, their like real frustration with like the ways that like they've lived in all these racist places. What were their professions in Australia? My father was getting his degree in like explosives engineering, like mining explosives. Oh my gosh. And then my mother was an OBGYN in China, couldn't practice after she moved, but was just raising me and my sister.

So anyway, there were these two like, you know, and you're like, your dad was a doctor? My dad was a doctor too, yeah, yeah. So that was sort of like, I don't know, the ethos of like our household, yeah. Well, you and I probably have that in common, which is like, I don't know, the ethos of our household. Well, you and I probably have that in common, which is like, did you have the, when you wanted to be a sketch comedian or improviser, where your parents were like, what do you mean? dad especially but they're both they're both like western culturally averse where it's like they don't they won't they won't watch movies they won't know what music is like sort of historically like significant and so i know i'm talking about this in cognitive behavioral therapy

um i've been i've been reading a cognitive therapy book and it's helping me a lot yeah it's great i just because i've i just, I had a talk therapist for two years and she was wonderful, but it got to a point where she was just kind of validating me a little too much. And I was like, oh, this is the one I need. Like, I have like a close group of friends for this. So I...

What do you like specifically about cognitive behavioral therapy? Well, so far it's, I just like that it's sort of task-oriented. It's like you kind of get little bits of homework. Yeah, yeah. Which I like, but then it's also just, I don't know, putting a nice frame on it just to know.

It's putting a nice frame on my behavior and what is causing those behaviors. And this behavior that I'm trying to get rid of, and this is very, very honest, trying to get rid of, and this is very, very honest, I'm trying to get rid of the impulse to just Google myself. Oh my gosh, yes, of course. I've done it so, so, so much lately as a pacifier almost. And there is some addictive thing about it that's like it's an addiction and so we talked about it last week and

we just sort of got to the bottom of it maybe where I feel like for the longest time comedy was this kind of shame zone it was this like it was a shameful thing where my parents were like wait what are you talking about you're gonna do what no and then college

and then working a day job for like six years after graduating where I would go in and they'd be like, and like I wouldn't bring it up, but someone would be like, oh, I saw you on like the lineup for the show. You're a comedian. I go, yeah, I do it every now and then. I do it like, you know, on weekends or whatever. And then they'll just like raise their eyebrow and be like,

okay, cool, well, good luck with that. So it was just the bulk of my experience with comedy, with performing comedy has lived in shame. And then all of a sudden it flipped, and now it's the biggest source of accomplishment for me. Yes, yes. Yes, that's so complex of a feeling. Yeah, yeah.

So I feel like, but I feel like my, I have not caught up to that place now. I'm still living in the shame part of it. And I'm not, where I'm completely, I'm just like, I'm hanging on every word that other people say. And before I even- Oh my gosh. Bowen, don't do it, please. Well, no, I'm hanging on every word that other people say. And before I even- Oh my gosh.

Before I even- Bowen, don't do it, please. Well, no, I know, I know. I know we don't know each other that well, but I'm telling you as your new friend, don't attach. No, that's like the goal though, because I feel like I have not,

I've never even prioritized self-assessment when it comes to my comedy. I'm never like, how do I think I did? It's only purely been about, and I feel like that's a cultural thing with SNL too, which is great where it's like, you know, Lorne thinks that what the audience responds to is sort of like the sort of most important thing.

And in some ways it is, and I get where that's coming from, but I feel like I have to do the work to like beat back the tide of, well, I have to know what people are saying about what I just did. No, I mean, the scrutiny of you folks on SNL is extraordinary. I mean, I'm obsessed with SNL. I mean, I made a movie about it, basically, Don't Think Twice, which is in a universe of like an improv group

and then one of the Keegan-Michael Key character gets cast on, I think our fake name for it was Weekend Live. Weekend Live. Which is a combination of Weekend Update and Saturday Night Live. And I was, you know, my goal with that was I was trying to come up with a version

of Saturday Night Live that would feel like it but it would obviously legally I couldn't get sued but you know

what you guys got so right with the movie is the moment when Keegan's character walks in and he like

marvels at all the photos on the wall oh my gosh yes and that is like and it's a lovely like, it's a lovely thing about that building and that show. Oh my God, yeah.

But something that fucks with you at every single stage of your time there, I think, is like from the time you go into audition and screen test, from the time that you leave, or even from the time that maybe you like, I'll extrapolate even further, the time that you are fortunate enough to return to host as an alum. Oh my gosh.

They're all reminders of how important this place is. The ghosts. Oh my god. But it is a real thing that I am still not over where I walk into the building and I sort of have to straighten up and hold my breath whenever I walk past a photo like Belushi. I'm just like, whoa, this place,

this place is crazy. Stepping away from my conversation with Bowen Yang to send a shout out to one of our sponsors, my conversation with Bowen Yang to send a shout out to one of our sponsors, Spindrift Sparkling Water. I called them to be a sponsor. I don't even think that's how it works. I just drink Spindrift Sparkling Water so much that I thought, I think I can call them. And then they called me back. And now they're a sponsor of the podcast. And I have my own offer code. If you go to drinkspindrift.com, you can get 25% off by typing in offer code BERBIGS25. I actually did it five minutes ago, and it works.

Go to drinkspindrift.com. Use offer code BERBIGS25 to help support the show, because that's how we keep the show going. And now, back to the show. I was reading about your background of like, that your folks at one point tried to send you to like gay conversion therapy. Oh yeah, they yeah they did they did they tried and succeeded right how many did you go for it was just eight weeks i got i got pretty lucky i i got like by the way you saying just eight weeks is all it's basically a horror movie i know i know but it was it started out it's it's the way they l I know. But it was, it started out,

it's the way they lull you into cults, I feel. It started out feeling like, oh, this just feels like talk therapy. Right. Where like with NXIVM, it just feels like, oh, this is just like a self-improvement seminar. And then they sort of, then they coax you into all this other stuff

like at the midway point. So that's what that sort of track was. But you didn't come away from it being like, I'm not gay, right? Deep down, I knew that I was still gay. But then it was so weirdly timed where my parents gave me this ultimatum where if I could go to NYU and be with my sister,

I could go to the gayest undergrad in the country. So this is from Colorado you were living in? Yes, correct. So this is going from Colorado to NYU. So my options were between NYU and UCLA, but my parents favored NYU because my sister was there. And she could sort of chaperone me, as it were. And that was not a fun position for her to be in either. But anyway, so the condition was that I was able to go to NYU if I did these eight weeks of

conversion therapy. So I came away from it thinking, I'm still probably gay, but let me just, I might as well reinvent myself the way that everybody does when they go to undergrad. If they go to a place that doesn't have a lot of their high school friends going to.

It was your great Gatsby. Yes, yes, yes. And then truly gave it an earnest go for a year where I did feel like I fell in love with a girl. You could call that, by the way,

the un-gay Gatsby. The un-gay Gatsby. And then the cover is... Two eyes and, like, Warby Parker glasses? Yeah, that's what it is. I like that. And then you were in college, and you were like, well, this is who I am,

and, you know, whatever. Yeah. like well this is who I am and you know the second my sister she graduated semester my sophomore year and the second she left and moved to DC to do this job I came out to my the first people I came out to was the people in my improv group I was like by the way guys

I'm gay and they were like oh we knew this yeah right right right that was yeah I had the same thing I'm gay. And they were like, oh, we knew this. Yeah. Right, right, right, right, right. That was, yeah, I had the same thing when my best friend from high school, and then we went to college together, when he came out

it was sort of like a right, right. Right. Yes, of course. But there's, I mean, but coming out still like necessitates like the whole action and the ceremony of it. So I feel like even if you, even if people have the urge to say, yeah, we've known or we knew or like that's not a surprise.

I feel like it shouldn't, it doesn't take away from, I guess the meaning or the significance of coming out just in the first place. This is a thing we do called the slow round and it's just sort of prompts and memories and things like that. But do you have a smell that you remember from your childhood? I want to say like the smell of our house that we first moved to in Colorado.

So we'd come from Montreal to Colorado to Denver, and there was just something there's just something different about the smell that i can't even describe it it was just like really light and like piney probably because it was it was denver um sure sure yeah but like that that that i like i like um i associate that with like the smell of America, which is bizarre. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Do you have a memory on a loop

that sort of makes you cringe when you think about it? Ooh, yeah. This is, okay, yes. This is in high school. This is freshman year of high school. I was in a drama class and they brought in this outside theater group to come in and teach us a workshop. And there was one game that they taught us, and they were like semi-improv workshops,

and then there was one game where these people would pass out cards to like four of us. And if you had a face card, you were high status. If you had a pip card, you were high status. If you had a pip card, you were low status. Okay. And I got a pip, but I remember wanting to go on stage and playing high status. I was like, low status doesn't feel fun to me. I'm going to go on stage and do high and just be like...

Oh my gosh, you're going to defy the cards. I'm going to defy the cards. I'm going to defy the cards. I'm going to do what I want and who cares about this exercise? So then we do this thing and it was fine. I don't remember how it went, but I remember just like having fun with playing like some like aristocrat or something.

And then afterwards, I didn't know that they revealed the cards to everybody in the class. Oh, yes. So then they got to mine and I was like a three of hearts or something. And then they were like, ooh, Bowen didn't follow the rules. Oh, wow. And I remember being so embarrassed because I felt like it was so transparently like a moment of me wanting to be a ham and not actually like doing the exercise i mean that's

a that's a weirdly specific memory but it does make me cringe every time do you do you remember a play that you were in in high school yeah i remember i remember several um we did the skin of our teeth thornton wilder oh yeah yeah And it was just like, it was just very bizarre. We had like a fine drama department. I did improv in high school, but that was through the calculus teacher because he was also the assistant director at this theater downtown,

this improv theater downtown. And he would like do these like, they were like short form shows for like people who like wanted a night out in the city but sure

like a who's right is it anyway kind of thing yeah yeah and I still keep up with him today and he's

he kind of like was the person that like set me on this like path to like actually trying to pursue comedy maybe

that's really interesting yeah so what was the what was the role that you played in the play because I remember I was in Our Town

and I played Howie Newsome, the milkman. Uh-huh. I was, oh, that's good. I see you. I see you in that. I was like, there was like, so I think Skin of Our Teeth like broke the fourth wall in some ways.

It was like very innovative at the time. So I think like the producer of the play comes out. Sure. And is like yelling at the actors. And I think I was the producer yeah. Do you remember getting laughed? I do even though the script itself is like

the script itself was just very dated probably and so I feel like I had to be like I just had to like knowingly like with a wink sort of say certain words in a dumb way. I had to be like, confound it.

Like I would have to like do that. Right. Yeah. Yeah, I actually remember like, I remember one line from Howie Newsome. Something happened down by the separator. Don't know what it is. Wow. That's all I remember.

What a wonderful reading. And then I just go, come on, Bessie. Come on, Bessie. The cow. I'm miming a cow. Come on, Bessie. Howie.

See, my dream would have been to be in Into the Woods and have a milky white, like have a prop cow. Prop cow is great. That must have been fun. It's a phenomenal opportunity to have when you're in high school.

And then the other one I did was Love's Labor's Lost, which is a Shakespeare play that's rarely performed. And I played Costered the Clown. And it was funny because I actually remember, it's kind of similar to your story where you're given the card and you don't actually do the thing. I somehow rehearsed it pretty straight and then I performed it way over the top. The audience was in front of me and I was a drunk clown.

Wow. Was that one of your first times performing? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I think it was the second time I was in a play ever. wow because was that one of your first times performing yeah yeah yeah so it was like I think it was the second time I was in a play ever

and I was like and like someone came and it was killing like it was killing like I was getting laughs and like and then someone came up to me who was like a bully

from like my math class this guy Peter and he was like he was like this he was like Mike you're hilarious you know what I mean like it was

and it was like a revelation of like oh you're really funny and it was like a Mike, you're hilarious. You know what I mean? And it was like a revelation of like, oh, you're really funny. And it was like a bully saying that to me. And I was like, oh, thanks. And he's like, is your character drunk? Wow. I mean, did you feel called out or was it like where you're like, yeah, he was. No, of course. Of course.

Yeah, no, I mean, he's absolutely drunk. He's a drunk clown. Gonna step away from my conversation with Bowen Yang to welcome a new sponsor this week. This is a company that I've really admired for a while, Patreon.com. So as a creator, as an artist, a creative, any kind of can feel like you're making stuff for sort of everyone, but yourself.

And, uh, Patreon is a creator founded membership platform where people who love what you're doing can directly support it with paid subscriptions. It's a great model. No advertisers, no algorithms, no mainstream gatekeepers or networks or studios holding your paycheck. Steady, reliable income and the freedom to make what you love. Start creating on your own terms.

Sign up today at patreon.com. And now back to the show. at patreon.com. And now back to the show. Do you have an injury that you had in your life that you felt like would never go away? You're right. I've been very lucky. I haven't had too many health scares.

I feel like I... To be honest, and this is maybe even an ongoing thing, but not to bring it back to the conversion therapy and bring the tone down, but it's like I feel like that was a thing where I was like, I will never get over this. I will never overcome this. And that's not to say that I have

fully or completely, but it's like I kind of would sometimes think and it's gotten much completely, but it's like, I kind of would sometimes think, and it's gotten much better, but in the immediate aftermath, I was like, this is something that will fuck me up for the rest of my life, and to a debilitating degree.

I feel like if you developed a bit, or like a 10-minute version of your story about your experience at conversion therapy which i'm sure is has all kinds of peaks and valleys right right i can only imagine and you performed that for kids who are sent to conversion therapy i mean like you could be the anti-conversion therapy person. Like there's a major opportunity there because think about these kids. It's like they have nobody as their role models. Nobody.

Uh-huh. Yeah. Because they're basically told like, your role models are these people who have been like cured or whatever the hell they would call it. And there's nobody to be like, well, look at Bowen Yang. He's a cast member on Saturday Night Live.

He's hilarious. And he was sent to the thing you were sent to. And he can talk about it and it's funny. And you were fucking wrong about it. Oh, yeah. I mean, I feel like the media narrative is always that like the people who come out of it are just shells of themselves

and have no hope for real intimacy or whatever. And so, yeah, I mean, maybe. I just, I honestly, this is the thing. It's not an injury that I will never overcome. It's not an injury that I will never heal from, but it's this thing that I have to

get even more distance from to know what is like universally funny about it because i feel like there are funny things that only other people who have been in conversion therapy will understand which is nice but like you know for the sake of expanding the reach of it like just making it funny and clear to anybody listening to it would be interesting, I think. Who, like, two fact questions about, like, roughly how many kids were in it, and then roughly how many teachers were in it. So I was only doing it, so I didn't go to a camp,

which I think was also nice. But I just did it through this one guy operating out of his office in colorado springs so we were living in denver and it's a two-hour drive each way so each week was me and my dad driving two hours each way wow to see this guy it was just me and him and no one else would be in the waiting room it was just it was so it just felt so, I don't know, secretive. It felt like its own weird pocket of the universe where space and time didn't exist. And so, yeah, it was a very solitudinal thing.

And I feel like it would have been very different if I did have multiple authorities there or other kids. Yeah. I feel like that's a movie. Maybe, yeah. I feel like that's a father, it's a father-son story. Like it's very cinematic.

It reminds me of Nebraska a little bit. Oh, yeah. Like the idea of you and your father, like a young version of you and your father, like driving back and forth to this thing and just the relationship. I mean, I feel like there's so much there. Yeah.

I will, I do want Bruce Dern to play my dad. That would be great. I love Nebraska. Oh my God, I love that movie. Oh, it's great. And then the final one is, do you have a unique neighbor that you think of from growing up?

Oh, that I think of before? It's funny because I heard you talking about you're like a current neighbor on your Last Culture East podcast recently. But do you have a neighbor from childhood or from Montreal or Australia or Colorado where you always think of them because they're so unique?

I wrote, we wrote this Canadian, French-Canadian news show sketch a couple weeks ago. And we named Kate McKinnon's character Anne-Marie. And we lived next to this family, the Léger's, when we were in Montreal.

And the daughter who was close in age to me was Anne-Marie. And we would always hang out. And they just had the coolest house. It was like a small house, but it just had all of these fun little, I don't know. Basically, it just came down to cable. They had cable. So that made them cool.

Cable's huge. Cable's huge. Cable's huge. My next door neighbor, Leslie Saliba, who I still know today, she had cable growing up. It was a huge deal. Social magnet. Yeah, for sure.

Anyway, so that sketch aired, and then I heard, but then she reached out to me over DMs and was like, hey, that was so fun. I hope that was a little Easter egg to me. And I was like, yes, it was, it was. It was me calling out to you and just seeing if you were out there.

But that was a nice reconnecting moment. She was fantastic. It was just a nice... We had a very nice childhood where we were not thinking about the lack of anything. And so we had lovely neighbors in Montreal. So this is the section of the show that's the working it out section. And I have sort of material in my notebook that's at different stages. I can share some stuff with you. We can kick it around. If you have stuff, we can kick

that around. But also no pressure. I don't know how you feel about it. No, I feel great about this. no pressure? I don't know how you feel about it. No, I feel great about this. I feel sort of honored to bat stuff around with you. Thanks. And same to you. Keep in mind, you're the first person I'm saying this to, but it's only because when I have like Jacqueline on or Pete Holmes on or people who I've just known for so many years yeah I feel like they're comfortable criticizing me and it's awesome and so I and but then

with Hannah Gadsby for example like I only knew her a little bit and I felt like she was maybe reticent to be critical and I would say this

is I have no this stuff is I'm not married to any of this great and that applies to you with me as well. Okay, great.

So this is something I wrote down that I feel like could be something, which is I've done a few outdoor shows. I actually did a recent outdoor show with Mulaney and Pete Davidson, your fellow castmate in Connecticut. And there were port-o-potties and I hadn't used a port-o-potty in years.

And I was wearing a mask because we're all wearing masks. And it was in that moment that for the first time I understood the genius of the invention of the port-o-potty. Because as a piece of machinery, it is sound. It is a portable potty. It is in the execution of the porta potty where I think the inventor would be furious because there is simply too much potty. He would be like, hello, it's not supposed to be a mountain of potty

that reaches your own potty. It was only meant to be like one or two potties. And everyone would be like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. It's two-thirds potty. We've been doing five, six hundred potties. You know. Wow. That's great. But the reason I noticed is because when I had a mask on, I couldn't smell the potty.

And I was like, this is great. And the moment I took my mask off, I was like, the people who invented this should be murdered. And then I thought I should start a company that sells masks next to porto potties and the masks could say i loved a potty and and then um my brother joe had a couple tags for this which i thought were funny which is uh uh and porto potty is a is a made-up word like but it's a compound you know port, Porto means portable. You know, you can take these things anywhere

as long as you have a trailer, a hand cart, a truck, a small forklift, and some gloves. So I thought that was funny. And then I got potty. And then potty refers to the potty itself. In the case of the Porto Potty, the potty is really just a plastic hole that you want to avoid looking into at all costs

because it's actually a window into hell. And then actually Joe wrote this tag too, which I think is fun, which is, I never judge someone ahead of me coming out of the Port-O-Potty when I suspect that they haven't washed their hands. I'm just like, good for you for getting out of there.

Like you were in a war and, you know, congrats. You know, that kind of thing. That's, I honestly, and I truly mean this, I have no notes. No notes, no notes. That is so rock solid. And I don't know, I think the only thing I have like that is so rock solid. And I don't know. I think the only thing I have to add is like we don't have to

do the whole theater around amenities in Port-au-Prince. There doesn't need to be a mirror. Oh my God, that's smart. That's smart, yes. Right? Even the sink aspect of it. Sort of the little mini sink. It's like, no, no, we're not going to use it.. Even the sink aspect of it, sort of the little mini sink,

it's like, no, no, no, we're not going to use, no one's going to use that. It doesn't have to do actual toilet or bathroom drag. Do you know what I'm saying? Right, right. It should just be the hole, and you should, but it's tough too, because the design,

you're saying that the inventors of the porta potty should have thought of more ways to make you forget that there was potty there. Yes. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's hard, but it's like what are the other distractions? There can be distractions, but they can't be like bathroom-related distractions like mirrors and the sinks and stuff.

Do you know what I mean? Yes. In other words, the scaffolding of the port-o-potty leaves something to be desired. Because right now, it's pretending to be a bathroom. But really, let's be honest, it's not a bathroom. It's not a bathroom. It's not a bathroom. And you're right.

I never thought of the potty-to-open-air ratio of port-o-potties, where it is two-thirds potty. Oh, my God. It's so disgusting. It's sicken it is two thirds potty. It's mostly potty. Oh my God, it's so disgusting. It's sickening. Oh my God. It's sickening. It was a huge revelation when I did those shows because I was like,

with a mask on, I was like, this is a great thing. What an important invention. Stepping away from my conversation with Bowen to send a shout out to Helix Mattress. Here's my Helix Mattress update. First of all, it's so comfortable that my daughter calls it, Dad, can I sweep on the Helix? Loves it. Calls it the Helix.

My parents-in-law visited. They slept on the helix loves it calls it the helix my parents-in-law visited they slept on the helix they're getting a helix they're using the offer code which means maybe they'll continue to be a sponsor uh you can use the offer code to get up to two hundred dollars off all mattress orders and two free pillows for our listeners if you go to helixsleep.com slash burbiggs. And now back to the show. So do you have anything that you're working on right now? I have, so this is just a sketch idea. It's a commercial parody where it's

someone cooking a stew at a kitchen in a cabin upstate, let's say, if we want to get really specific. I feel like the ad copy around it is like, fall fun is finally here.

The fall fun is finally here and between the fall fun is finally here. And between going on a hike and doing some other thing, the most fun you can have this fall is renting a cabin upstate and doing hero shot, introducing McCormick shrooms or something. The most fun you can have this year is to get a cabin and do shrooms. Um, that's very funny. So, and so, so it's like me cooking a stew and like doing like a little shake of ground up psychedelic shrooms into a pot. And then the rest of the commercials,

like, and like a, like a trippy, trippy, trippy thing. Yeah. But I don't know. I feel like beyond the turn, we're trying to think of how to like, what the moves are. I don't know. Right. Like you could almost like have your main guy like spinning like at a fish concert kind of thing. Yeah, yeah.

And then like, I think there has to be children. You know, the children being like, dad, why are you spinning? You know what I mean? Like something where someone else isn't on shrooms. And so maybe the neighbors come over kind of thing. That's perfect.

Like, hey, we're the Clarks from next door. You know what I mean? And like all that the shroomed out people are seeing, you see their version, they're like aliens essentially. That's perfect. Because actually we have this like roughy rough draft and it's only like me and some other person, like the host maybe.

And it's just the two of us doing the shrooms together. But you do need some straight person, straight manny type person to call out, like, what's going on? Yeah. Your pupils are so wide. Yeah. Like the 80 Brian from next door comes over.

Right. It's like, what's going on? Because we have like, so right now we have like, let's see, like, sorry, I'm just looking at these notes. Oh, yeah, of course. This is great though. I love this. It's like, let's see, like, sorry, I'm just looking at these notes. Oh yeah,

of course. This is great though. I love this. It's like, okay, so right now we have like, me like an ad copy sort of tone like,

because fall tastes like nutty nutmeg, cinnamony cinnamon, and shroomy, shroomy, shrooms, shrooms, shroom,

shrooms. Sorry, am I saying shrooms a lot? And then, it's like, it's the perfect time of year to rent a cabin in the woods, trip off your nips and murder your ego.

The host runs in, oh my god, the toilet has a face and she's like gorgeous. And then like there's another moment that's like, because it's that time of year for like, okay, so there's this like purple jelly bean glowing in my chest and at first I think it's going to kill me but then I realize it's actually good. And it's like this

emissary for the universe and she tells me that like I would be a great singer. So it's like stupid, it's actually good. And it's like this emissary for the universe. And she tells me that like, I would be a great singer. So it's like stupid. It's like trippy. It has to feel like airy and dumb, but you're right. That's the missing element.

Like kids is perfect too. Cause it's like someone who has no awareness of what this could be. And they're just like, daddy's acting weird. Yeah, that's good. Well, I think the flip back and forth from like the sort of colorful trippy lens version of of being on shrooms and back to the reality of it is would be so fun yeah but i think to make it the reality even darker in contrast would be

like like like that it would need like the, the kids, I think. Okay, so I might. How about also, like, the kids being like, like, dad, we need dinner.

That's great. That's great. That's really, really funny. We need dinner, dad. Like, all the necessities

of being a parent, like, out the window. Totally, but it's like, a parent would, like, at a parent, like out the window. Totally. But it's like a parent would, like at this point, like anybody,

and I'm not, I'm like, and if drug use is not everybody's thing, that's fine. But I feel like there's some like, because I was trying to think of like fall things I could do this year. And I'm like, there's not like the options aren't that many.

And I'm just like, well, the best thing you could, like the most maybe illicit, wild thing you could do is like trip your balls off and go upstate. Well, the other one is like, the other moment could be like if the daughter, let's say they have two kids

and it's like the daughter pulls you aside and it's like, dad, are you on drugs? And you're like, yes, but they're natural. Yeah, but they're not like but they're not the bad kind or the kind that makes you see the world differently. Yeah. The other thing is, where do you get the drugs from? The commercial is a commercial for like,

I'm trying to think if you're in a small Hudson Valley town or something, where would you get shrooms in real life kind of thing? Right. We have this line as the out that is, McCormick Shrooms, available at, okay, I don't know his name, but he's always in a hockey jersey and he hangs out at the farmer's market. And then that's it.

Oh my God, that's hilarious. Wait, that's the line? That's the line? That's the line. That's the line that we have right now. Oh, that's really funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. But anyway, something besides that have right now. Oh, that's really funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that.

But anyway, something besides that is fun too. Wait, so could you say it again? It's like sold by the guy who's always at the farmer's market, but no one knows his name? Yeah, so it would be like a voiceover. It would be like a hero shot on the actual spice, and it would be like, McCormick Shrooms, available at, okay, I don't know his name,

but he's always in a hockey jersey, and he hangs out at the farmer's market. Oh my God, that's so funny. And like in my, it like stripped out my voice. And then maybe it could end with like, I think he rides a bike? Like ending a commercial with a question mark is sort of funny. I think he rides a bike? Yeah, that's funny.

I met his girlfriend once. Yeah. That's. I love that. Anyway. I feel like that one of my favorite things about SNL

over the years because I've been like you I've been a fan of it since I was a kid is like commercial parodies never get old for me

because if you watch local TV commercials they're insane. So funny. I mean local commercials are just funny. They're absurd.

They're absurd and They're absurd. And it kind of creates this identity around the place that you're from. Yes. I did a thing where I was just kind of incentivizing people to donate to this Senate race in Colorado. And I was like, if you guys, for this dollar mark, for every dollar that, for every time we hit this many dollars, I'll sing a local Denver jingle. And then there were just so many options to choose from. And I was like, oh, and like, this is like, this is sort of like our sort of communal memory around growing up in that area, especially for people who've moved away from it. It's like, oh yeah, this is something that still

connects us culturally in some way. Yeah. I love local so true that's and that's the challenge of snl is like your your audience is so wide it's everything yeah it's like what connects us anymore which speaking of which that's my my next joke is is about the vow which not everybody has seen but i know you've seen i've seen it i think this can play which is like even if people haven't it, but it's like basically explaining to people, there's a show called The Vow. It's a documentary on HBO about how there's these people in a cult. And the thing that sticks out to me

is how one of the main women, who's one of the protagonists or whatever, is like, I wanted to be an actor. And so I could perform and people would listen to what I would say, you know, and I'd have a and so I could perform, and people would listen to what I would say, and I'd have a platform, and people would listen to what I have to say. And I remember thinking, like, that's literally the opposite of acting. Like, you don't say your own words.

Like, you read someone else's words. It's like if you're like, I want to be a postman so I can eat the mail. Or like, I want to be a mechanic so I can become a car. Oh my God. Yes. It's ridiculous, right? Like that woman, and you tweeted this, and I know you're off Twitter right now, but it's like, they're coming back for season two of The Vow,

and you just tweeted no. I just tweeted no. And then I tweeted earlier that week, I was like, they're coming back for season two of The Vow, and you just tweeted no. I just tweeted no. And then I tweeted earlier that week, I was like, The Vow is a documentary about actors who love press, who love reading what people are saying. I know. Yeah, but that's so funny because you're right. It's like that's not what acting is. I know. You want influence.

That's not what acting is. I know. You want influence, that's fine. And there are ways to find that anywhere. Not anywhere, but you might as well be a podcaster, you know? Which is great. No, I know. It's a lovely, admirable line of work. Yeah, no, I know. I mean, the thing that kills me is when they, on the show, when they keep going back to that guy frank who has a website called

the frank report oh yeah that dude yeah and it's like and they're like we need to tell frank so we can put it on the frank report.com or whatever and you're like uh you guys uh this isn't a website anyone reads like they talk about it like it's the New York Frank Times. You know, it's like, this is nothing. You're talking, you're telling someone who's like, no visitors to that site. No visitors. So I got the vow thing, which honestly,

I don't know if you feel this way about bits, but I feel like that's a funny one for us to goof around about now. But like, I don't think that'll end up in anything eventually because for me in my shows, by the time this next show, which I think is going to be called the YMCA pool comes out, no one will remember the vow. Remember the vow. You can, I think that the kind of person who says stuff like, I wanted to be an actor because I wanted to have a platform to speak my truth, that person will always exist. No, you're absolutely right.

I should say I was watching, you know what I should do is make it evergreen at this point, which is basically like, I was watching this documentary series about a cult. And there was this woman who was like, I just want to be an actor so I can have a blah blah. And that's not what acting is. And that way you get around the whole thing of like,

oh, did I see it? Did I not see it? Because cult documentaries at this point aren't general enough. It's almost a genre. It's a genre, exactly. Oh, that's perfect. See, you're already,

you're like solving this yourself. That's great. I, that's perfect. See, you're already, you're like solving this yourself. That's great. I think that should be good. I mean, and because I actually have a lot to say about like cults in general. Like I was writing this bit early in the quarantine, which is like,

which is basically, I can remember it, which is like, I want to start a religion called Nobody Knows. And if you Venmo me $5, you're a member of the religion. And if you Venmo me $50, I'll tell you the secret. And the secret is nobody knows. And if you Venmo me $500,

you will be flown in a private jet to the top of a volcano where you will be met by an old man who will whisper in your ear, nobody knows. And if you Venmo me $5 million, you too can sell these secrets. That's beautiful that has like a Vonnegut quality to it I like that thanks I feel like I love Vonnegut oh my god yeah Vonnegut's one of those

between Vonnegut and Sedaris and actually Mary Carr those are three authors who like I can just crack open any one of their books and it kind of transports me somewhere it's it's just like very readable I I'm someone who like doesn't even read dense stuff

that well like I have trouble getting but like Vonnegut stuff you just like yeah you're right you just you just open it and it's just immediately inviting anyway I really appreciate that because I wasn't gonna bounce that off you that nobody knows but now now that because I wasn't going to bounce that off you that nobody knows. But now that I – I think digging into the belief system of – digging in – like, one of the things about this show that I'm developing,

which it's all about middle age and realizing, like, I'm halfway through my life. And, like, the midlife crisis that, like like I never thought I would have, I'm having. And so one of the parts of it is about like beliefs and how like so much of my childhood, I went to like Catholic school, grade one through six, and they taught us about Jesus every day.

And I'm like 42 years old now. And I'm like, you know, I could have used some more information about math. That would be practical. That's great. That's great. But I love that. Sorry, go ahead. No, no, you go. You go. It just is like a very simple, clear satire around the way that these systems are structured

where it's like, if you pay me this much, then you get to know this much. The way it's all scaled and relative is so bizarre to me. But yeah, that's really good. I'm glad I bounced off you because I don't know if you have this with bits, but sometimes when I say them to someone, it actually helps me understand it better than how I wrote it on the page.

Oh, for sure. 100%. It's hard at SNL to write something on your own. There are people who do it very well, but I feel like I have the seedling of an idea and it doesn't end up being anything until I tell it to someone else. They're like, oh yeah, and it could be this and this and this.

And they like sort of put on the, like modulate other stuff onto it that makes it actually a complete idea. That's what I actually, that's what I'm really truly jealous about that all of my friends who worked at SNL is like you have that thing where you have an office mate and all that stuff.

And like you all collaborate all the time. Like it's just, I don't know, that seems really fun. It's, we're lucky to have it. Like I feel like standup is like objectively probably the hardest comedy discipline where you are just kind of batting things around in your own head until you get in front of an audience. And even now that's like hard to come by.

So yeah. Do you have anything else that you want to bounce off me? This is something for maybe, by the time this comes out, we'll know whether or not this works. It made it or not, yeah. But this is, because I think this is something

that I was thinking about for Mulaney hosting, where it's like, we play a couple who is hosting a dinner party and this is so dumb. But the, just the game of it is that he and I have wet mouths and we constantly have to swallow mid sentence. So we'll be like, okay, so let's just,

we're just going to tell you a little bit about, it's like that kind of thing. It's, I don't it's I don't know I don't know where it goes it's so funny but it can't it's got to like be like

how do you how do you convey it as an idea it's such a funny verbally expressed idea totally so as I was talking about it

with with this with my friend Sudie Green who's a writing supervisor and she was like it has to be um like first like first you like you you the turn you you show like the the tick happening and you're like great okay so these two people do this thing they're the kinds of people who swallow mid-sentence but it has to be written in such a

way that um what gets said after each swallow is some other micro reveal where it's like and this is a bad example but it has to be like so um you know my mother went to her orgy it's like that kind of thing where it's like the thing that comes after the swallowing has to be like a little shocking or something or unexpected so i don't know this this is this is all still very um amorphous and we haven't figured out what to do with it yet I think that's really funny like where did the idea come from?

I was watching okay so there's this this sounds very silly but she's this journalist she used to be the White House correspondent at CNN for Obama's second term her name is Jessica Yellen she's wonderful but now she does news on Instagram and she you know, especially in the beginning of the pandemic, she was releasing

videos every single day, like very informative, clear videos about what was happening and about the research that was coming in. But I noticed that she would always have to reset and swallow in that way. And I thought that was really funny. I feel like there are people who do that. And we all sort of do that on our own,

just unaware maybe. As you're doing it, I'm doing it myself to sort of see what it feels like. It just feels so funny. I don't know. I feel like comedy to me, the way I boil it down is it's an error in stimulus. And so anytime something doesn't hit your ear the right way,

it's just funny. It's just like, it, it doesn't sound right. And so that's why it's, that's why it makes you laugh. I wonder if you could do it as a pre-tape where you call them pre-tapes. I forget what you call them.

pre-tapes. Yeah. That's, that's the insider term. I wonder if you do it as a pre-tape where you do it almost like a Being John Malkovich where it's in your head where you're like I hope they don't notice that I swallow

before I speak you know and then you see the scene from the other perspective and it's like and people are like the people who are there are like go ahead you know what I mean it's like oh they fucking

they knew they know they know oh that's really good and that's like that there's like a nice like artful sort of overtone to that whole thing I think it's really I think it could be really funny because it's like that's such a great I don't know.

Like, I feel like, you know, we talk about craft a lot on the show and on this podcast. And like, I feel like so much of things are the seed of like picking out a thing. Yeah. And then being like, how can I, you know, that's an original observation. Like, I've never heard anyone say that observation. Really? No, but the moment you're saying it, I'm like, oh, I totally know what you mean. That's so specific. And I know exactly who does it and everything. And then I know what it feels like. And so then it's like, and then I feel like the next thing, the next

hurdle is always like, how do I convey this to others? And then what is, you were saying the word game, because that's what people use in improv speak, which is what's the, if people don't know, sort of improv training, it's like, what's the game of the scene? So I feel like the, like when I remember taking a workshop once with Ian Roberts from UCB Theater,

and he described it this way, it's like the movie Liar Liar has the simplest game, like with Jim Carrey, has the simplest game of all time, which is he has to lie, I think, or he has to tell the truth. I forget which one it is. Yeah, he lies all the time.

And so then the act two is like he has to tell the truth. That's right. That's right. And so then the game of the scene, usually the way to accentuate the game is to have some turn where you see the opposite of itself. Mm-hmm.

It might be funny if you choked on a baby carrot and then everyone's like, no, no, no, that's just how he speaks. That's good. That's really good. You know what I mean? Like something where, like what would be the worst case scenario

of people not understanding the tick? Right. You're literally choking. This is normal, yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, no, he's like, this is what Alan is like, you know. That's great.

But the Malkovich and like the, and like just having, and just the carrot thing are perfect. Let me see if I have anything else quick. This is a good quick one. Maybe we'll close it. Okay, great. I think there should be a sugar cereal called Feelings so there's no stigma when you eat them.

Also maybe a breakfast cereal called Lunch and it's just tiny turkey sandwiches floating in milk. So we wrap up the show with a thing called Working It Out for a Cause, and I know that you benefit a lot of causes. That's actually how you and I met in the first place, the Bell House doing that benefit for Padma Lakshmi. And is there someone – is there a nonprofit that you'd like to shine a light on that I will contribute to and I'll include in the show notes? Yeah. I thought long and hard about this. I feel like you do such a good job of, I don't know, just like putting a light on whatever the guest brings.

But I feel like I'm just going to throw out to Clinton Hill Fort Green Mutual Aid. I feel like anyone's local mutual aid group or network I think is a great place just to – when you're a little overwhelmed by all the organizations that are out there, obviously they're all worth donating to, but I feel like you might as well start at like the local level and just make sure your neighbors are supported and doing okay.

So that's what I'm gonna do with mine. That seems great. I'm looking at their Instagram right now and there are a coalition of neighbors organizing to support each other through COVID-19. That's a really phenomenal thing. I completely agree about local nonprofits. Is there something about contributing to a place

where you know where the money's going and how it's going to be effectively used? Exactly, because you're living in that sort of domain. Awesome, Bowen. I really appreciate you coming on Working It Out today. This has been such a joy. I feel like we came a long way. We did.

We did go a long way. We've come a long way. I feel like I've gotten to know you very intimately, even though I feel like I've come to know you through your work. But this was really lovely. I hope we can be better friends, and maybe we can do some benefit shows together in New York when we're back doing shows again.

I would love that. That sounds wonderful. Working it out, because it's not done. Working it out, because there's no hope. Wow, so that's going to do it for another episode of Working It Out. How about that Bowen Yang? You can see him on Saturday Night Live or on his podcast, Las Culturistas. Our producers of Working It Out are myself, along with Peter Salamone and Joseph Verbiglia, consulting producer Seth Barish, sound mix by Kate Balinski,

with help from Joel Robby, assistant editor Mabel Lewis. Special thanks to my consigliere, Mike Berkowitz, as well as Marissa Hurwitz. Special thanks always to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers for his music. As always, a very special thanks to my wife, J-Hope Stein. Our new book, the new one, is at your local bookstore, Special thanks to my wife, J-Hope Stein.

Our new book, the new one, is at your local bookstore, Curbside, or on our Burbiggs.com merch site. You can get a signed copy for the holidays coming up. As always, a special thanks to my daughter, Una, who created my beautiful radio fort of pillows. Thanks most of all to you who are listening to this podcast. It is such a labor of love to all of us who are putting it together. Tell your friends.

Tell even your enemies. We're right here working it out. See you next time, everybody.