Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 218. Jane Wickline and Liva Pierce Return: Comedy Duo Therapy

Episode Date: July 13, 2026

This week, SNL’s Jane Wickline and comedian Liva Pierce return to Working It Out to discuss the Off-Broadway debut of their two person musical comedy show, Dukes. Mike grills Jane and Liva on the realities of working so closely with another person, and the three of them break apart the existential dread that accompanies most of their creativity. Plus, Jane and Liva work out two new songs from their show and the three of them create a song from a bit Mike is working on. Please Consider Donating To: Survived and Punished NYC  See Jane and Liva Off-Broadway in Dukes. Get tickets here. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Who hasn't come to the show of who you invited? Liva? We invited Lin-Manuel Miranda. Okay. Via Instagram. It's a crazy delusional paragraph we wrote together. Well, Heep was a fan of yours, even like years ago when you were in college and did that musical theater parody thing. Like on Twitter.

Yes, he saw that. And actually, we talked to him at one of the after parties. And we went up to him and kind of were bullies. a cocktail in our hand and we're like, we love you, we're obsessed with you, we're writing songs and you're writing songs and you meet everything to us and then he was kind of like

like, okay, thank you so much. How many people come up to Lynn Miranda and go we're writing songs, you're writing songs. Hey everybody, it's Mike Barbiglia, this is working it out. Those are the voices of Jane Wickline and Leva Pierce back again. There are a

comedy musical duo called Dukes. They have a show right now. That is awesome at Soho Playhouse. I've seen it I think three times. I'm going to go for the fourth time. If you're anywhere near New York City or for that matter of Montreal this summer they're going to be on my show there in Montreal that I'm hosting for the festival. But in New York City they're doing a whole run of

shows at the Soho Playhouse, which is a great little playhouse where I saw Hannah Gadsby's solo show among others. Their show is, quote, two friends and one piano, one dream, and two fools, two geniuses, and one huge mistake. Dukes is a two-person musical comedy show about desire, lust, and dreams from Sarah Ant Live, cast member Jane Wickline and comedian Leva Pierce. I love the show. I highly recommend it. Like I said, I'll be in Montreal. If you're in Montreal this month, I'll be at the Just for Laughs Festival. Then I'll be in Nantucket for two shows. We talked about this

when John Rudnetsky was on, but he will be a guest on those. Gary Simons will be a guest on those shows in Nantucket. Tickets for those on berbigs.com. Sign up for the mailing list and text berbigs, the word berbigs, to 911 444-7-7-1-5-0 to be the first to know about upcoming shows.

Thanks to all of our working-up premium subscribers, the Berbilia familia. We've got more bonus episodes coming soon. It's $4.99 a month. You get no ads because you hate ads. You're one of those people who hates ads. So for only $4.99 a month, you can get no ads.

And you can get bonus episodes, which we love. As always, this episode is on YouTube, as well as Spotify, video. It's coming soon. Apple Podcasts they're doing video as well. This one's actually great for video because we've got a piano. So it's a little bit like our own Tiny Desk concert. I think you're going to love this one with Jane Wickline and Leva Pierce. We talk about being a comedy duo, comedy duo therapy.

gets really personal. They were on, you know, about a year ago and it was personal. This got more personal. They unpack what it's like to work so closely in a creative collaboration with another person. They play two new songs. Ooh. And we use one of my bits as an example of how to turn a comedy bit into a comedy song, which taught me a lot. I didn't know a lot of what we were talking about. Check out Dukes at the Soho Playhouse in New York City. It runs from July 8 to August 2nd. Tickets at Soho Playhouse.com. Enjoying my conversation. with the great Jane Wickline and Leva Pierce. Returning champions, Dukes.

Let's explain. Mike, Brubigley is working at that. I'm here with Leva Pierce, Jane Wickline. And they are Dukes. They have a show called Dukes. It's at Soho Playhouse? Yes. The one in New York.

Nice. Not Soho Theater in London. Not Soho Theater in London. Which more people know about. Yes. But it's great. It's great. It's actually where I saw Hannah Gadsby's show Nanette originally.

That started at the only house? Yeah, yeah. I did not know that. Yeah, yeah. That's cool. I've seen tons of great shows there. I'm really excited to see your show there because I've seen your show. You see B Theater and then I saw it at Joe's Pub and then Joe's Pub again.

And so it'll be my fourth time seeing your show. Wow. Yeah. I love your show. I'm going to come see it again. Thanks, Mark. What is different? What's the same? This is maybe the biggest lift, the biggest difference in shows from what you've seen.

You said lift, let's go back to that. This is the hardest one for us. This is one that's killing us. This is the most pain. I'm being crushed under. This one is sort of, I mean, the last couple versions of it have been to, but this is the most. most cohesive narrative version of it. And it's approaching a musical.

We're still, we're not letting ourselves call it that all the way of musical comedy. I see it that way. But yes, it's a story of us and our friendship. And big for us is our first set. We have a set that we're working with an amazing designer. Who designed this app? Colleen Murray. Shout out, Colleen.

I love the show. So, like, I feel like it's one of the version I saw, certainly, like, one of the most original comedies I've seen, like, in New York in, like, a long time or anywhere in a long time. I feel like I laughed harder during your show than any comedy show I'd seen in so long. That's so kind. Did you take out the funny parts?

Yeah, those are cut, kind of we're trying to streamline. So, yeah. It's mostly narrative. We don't want to offend anyone, so we don't remove all nouns. Yeah. We're writing from a place of fear now instead of love and delight. Yeah, that has helped us a lot in the theater space. When I was thinking about you as a duo, I was like, here's the reason I wouldn't be in a duo.

The stress of showing up to rehearsal being like, what's this other person going to be like today? That's so funny. And I can tell you that it's never the same. It is different. Every single day. And it's often I feel like we're never in a good mood at the same time. Nice. And I would say when we're in a good mood at the same time, that is when we're our least productive.

Yeah. Let's just talk and hang out. Yeah. You kind of need someone to come in being like, I'm pissed. You need to start working and you haven't been doing enough. But it's good. Does it ever come to that? No, no.

You haven't been doing enough. That would be a harsh turn. It's more like one of us comes in. One of us is a baby that day. And then it's like I'm just like I'm like I'm grumpy and like everything is impossible. Then it's good because then it's like, I don't want to do a comedy show. I don't really want to do it today. And then it's great because another person has to be like in pep talk mode.

And sometimes I go into rehearsal not knowing what mood I am. And then what Leva's mood is tells me like I can't be that one. So then I pick from every other option. Yeah, it's very parent child just on a loop. And we switch. So if he was in a bad mood, you're like, well, I better bring it. Yes. And if Jane's in a bad mood, you're like, it's time for me to step up.

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. But I can't stress enough. We probably spend eight hours together every day. Wow. Really? Right now we are.

We started at the beginning of rehearsals. We all have an emotion's wheel. And we just say what our emotion is. Does it help? I don't know. But it's fun to look at a wheel. Okay, talk me through this. Let me try to find a pen to understand what an emotions wheel would look like.

Oh, yeah. So it's complicated. So if it's a wheel. Yeah. Great. You're already halfway there. And then you like six parts kind of thing? Many more than that.

More than that. Dozens. They found a wheel that has, I would say, like, 400 emotions. So it's like a Dungeons and Dragons. Yeah. Yeah. Dice situation. Some of them aren't even emotions on our wheel.

It's like they ran out of emotions and it'll be like perceptive. Okay. So perceptive. Like is it sad one of them? There's a sad section. It'll be like. Oh, sad section? Yeah.

So like morose? Morose. Yeah. Okay. It would be like powerless. Powerless. I choose powerless a lot when I'm writing because I come up against my limits. Okay.

So like perceptive, morose, powerless. Is there any joyful ones? Whole section. Okay. Yeah. What has you got? Um, luminous. Curious.

Luminous. Ecstatic. Is someone taking the SATs soon? Is it? Slinous isn't really mean happy, but. So it's like perceptive, luminous, morose, powerless. Many others. Many others, right?

Shy. Shrieving. Cheying. What was yours? Yeah, grieving is grieving. Grieving. Grieving. Grieving the funny parts of the show being cut.

Right. Grieving, perceptive. Grieving, not being able to go to a movie because I'm at rehearsal. Powerless. So where are you on this wheel today, Mike? Yeah, where, okay, so where am I? Okay. So if I came into the podcast today and the wheel were, if Gary or Mabel threw this up, I would say, powerless.

That one is really helpful. It's useful. Where are you today? I'm feeling, I'm feeling shy and. And powerless. Shy and powerless. Yeah, of these powerless, for me, is by far the closest. Powerless.

So you show up, you work together. Your co-directors are Henry and Mabel. Yes. Mabel's our producer. So there's sort of like a tie-in here. Yes. Major conflict of interest. It's amazing we're even allowed to record today.

She's practically an oil company. But like, what's the same? the relationship to the directors? Well, our other director, Henry, is my boyfriend. Right. So that's all, it's like we're all, it's like we're all best friends and it's,

it makes it easier to spend all day together because we are all really close. That's probably never complicated. I would say honestly, maybe the least complicated part of it is being Henry, if that's possible. Or just the least like part, I feel like all of us being,

Yeah, I guess I'm not the person who can speak on that. Leave it. Can you speak to this? Yeah. Leave it alive. Well, what is, we do all have kind of, there's different kind of permutations because I live with Henry. Yes. He's my roommate. Wow. And he's Jane's boyfriend.

So it's kind of like, well, I have my own kind of thing going on there, too. So it's like sometimes we have roommate privilege and sometimes they have couple privilege. Right. And also, you're as roommate, you're first to certain. information probably. Exactly. Also, Leva and Mabel are best friends from college, so that's another

side of the, it's like every side of the square is like, there's all these different relationships. There's no exits. No escape. It really makes me understand Fleabood Mac and many of the greats. Plus, you have a full-time job

on Saren't Live England, correct? Yes, yes, SNAWK. Just got renewed, so thank you. And I'm sure that's never complicated. And that's never complicated. But you're off for the summer. I'm off for the summer. So that's something.

Do you feel like there's things you can do in Dukes that don't quite fit on SNL? Absolutely. In the sense that, well, just in the sense that, like, we do so many things that just simply they would not like. That are nonsense-ish. Yeah. That's why it's great to, it's, it's great to have, like, you know, sometimes I have an idea, even during the season, and I'm like, well, they'll hate this, but that might be a little, that might be a little dukey. Yeah.

Yeah. Jane, you said that you were going to get Leva a Victorian Manor's handbook for opening night. I see a certain Mabel has been tattling. Because Leva was, quote, rude. Leva, what are you getting, Jane, for opening night? Well, in the spirit of maybe constructive feedback gifts. No, I mean, I don't have me. I know the problem, but I don't know the object.

What's the problem? Just like, I feel like, like getting to, like, like having no sense of stakes and, like, stressing everyone out. Do you know what I mean? This is a more abstract problem. It's more abstract. Oh, I know what I would get, Jane, is a copy of all my shirts because Jane is always taking my shirts and wearing them to shows.

And then I have nothing to wear it, so I would get her. duplicate of my closet. That's a great idea for a gift. Yeah. I love that. And a statement. But let's go back to you. You have a bad grasp on stakes. Well, just I think sometimes I'm like the world is like, is, like, I just

feel like I forget that it's not life or death and then I act like it is and then I create a problem for the whole group. I have that too. Yeah. I think that like working on stuff that's creative, and I feel like you guys are voicing this about each other and like the process of mounting a show. It's like it does sometimes feel existential, even though it isn't existential.

Because you're like, well, if it doesn't work, then who am I? Yeah. Yeah. And what am I doing? Yeah, definitely. But the inverse of that is if you weren't doing it also, who are you and what are you doing? Yeah. Both of them have.

Yeah. existential questions. Yeah. And so, but then sometimes when you're in the weeds on something, you forget that actually the inversion would also be like complicated. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I feel like there's always an existential kind of fog when it's like you just spend so

much time on something that I feel like I get very anxious about I'm spending all this time on something. Like it has to mean something. Like it has to like add up to something. Otherwise, like, why did I spend? Yeah. I've been doing Dukes for now three or four years. Like I'm like, you know, there are times where I'm like, is it getting better?

Like, I don't know. I'm in it, you know, and that I think is stressful just like the years going by that you spend on a project. Well, yeah. Like, but it's, I mean, the existential part of that is at its core. It's like it doesn't mean anything beyond like what happens in the room with the audience and then what happens with each other. Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of all that happened.

That's all that's happening anyway. Yeah. Because the video depictions, like, it's like comedy specials or whatever. Like, they're fun. But it's not what the people in the room experience. Yeah. It never is. Totally.

We had that on Sunday. We had been writing since like 9 a.m. And we were, and then we left at 6 for this Bell House show. And we were both so tired and we were like, wish this Bell House show over tomorrow because we're so tired. And then we did our set. And then it was just, we kind of talked in the car home about having completely forgotten that that feeling is like actually what we are writing. We're writing for the show and like what the show is going to be. And I just like, I truly do forget that exists.

Like I forget that the script isn't the finished thing. Yeah. I feel like that, the kind of existential, like, stress of making a thing is like, I feel like it never goes. way. I feel like I don't know anyone who doesn't have it. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I... Definitely. And even the people I admire the most. Yeah. Like if you see them right before they're doing something. Like, it's pretty, it's pretty hot in there. Yeah. Yeah. I think you need it a little bit to, I mean, I think you need to have a disproportionate stress to, like, get yourself to do your best work sometimes. Do you guys ever have like a, like a, in rehearsal, like a reset button for

yourself? Sometimes the reset button is someone burst into tears and then we say it's time to reset. Yeah. We actually had a new, we had a new reset, which is we have a, we have a, like, if it's like if you're right about to cry, you say five minutes and then you go away. Say five minutes you go away, you're obviously crying. But I would say. I would say. I would say to go in this room to do.

Sometimes you were able to say five minutes before. Or it's sometimes, it might be after the crying starts. That is so deep. But it's sometimes to like get it out of your system, five minutes. Five minutes. Yeah. Yeah, it's the great race in life to say five minutes before the crying starts. And what's nice about our stage is that we're often rehearsing an apartment, so that means there's always a bed.

And so it's like, sometimes we just go and lie down in the dark and come back and we're like, okay, I'm going to try again. That's why it's so funny because that's why SNL I feel like has so much lore because it's so many people in the offices that are not that big. Mm-hmm. Like that part of the building is like it's pretty limited. Yeah. And it's like, what is it like 40, 50 people? Yeah. Like all having the kind of artistic existential crisis simultaneously.

Yes. And you don't even get you on office. It's like, there's like two people. You shared offices. You literally have no alone place to be alone. What say something nice about the other person and say something mean about the other person. Should we do nice, nice, nice, mean, or nice, mean, nice, mean? Nice, nice, mean.

Okay. Okay. I love just when you get silly. It's like one of my favorite. It's just like one of my favorite. things to be around is like, and I love when we're both silly at the same time. And it's just like, it just reminds me why writing is so much fun and just like making stuff together is so much fun. And I feel like when we're locked in, I just love, I just feel like we like get, we just get on the same page so quickly.

And it's really, yeah, that's my nice thing. I agree. I agree. And I think you bring it out of me. Oh. Yeah. I feel like the best is when you feel like, I feel like you probably have this if you're, well, I guess you write alone a lot. But when you work on things with other people, when you just feel like, just like kids, like when you're just like, totally. It just feels like sleepover. Yeah. And that's the best feeling when we're late at night and we're just like, this is hilarious. It's so bad.

This is completely unusable. I was talking to Chris Fleming about that on this podcast recently. Like, all of good comedy is middle school sleepover. Yeah. Yeah. Like, what does it feel like when you hit on an inside joke? Yeah. And everyone's in it.

And it's like, and then you figure out how to get the audience in on it, too. Yeah. Which is my favorite thing about your show, like, because your show is, I would describe it as nonsensical. Yeah. Like, I, in the most complimentary way. Like, it's like, I don't know what's happening. I'm just laughing. Which is middle school sleepover.

Yeah. Okay. I'm going to do mine. thing. Okay. I would say my, one of my favorite things about Jane is she is genuinely someone who only wants the best for everyone and is very, I think it would be, it's extremely hard to, you know, be trying to do entertainment without getting a little bit like weird in the head. And I think that you just really, all you care about is that the people you love are doing well

and trying to make everyone feel good and just being there always. And yeah, and you just, I think you just care so much. And really, Jane's the kind of person where you try to gossip with her and she's like, I don't want to talk about, I don't want to talk badly about them. And I'm like, I'm like, Jane is truly like sweet, sweet, sweet. to your core. And so I love that. And I feel like it makes me better.

This is officially turned into comedy duo therapy. I know. By accident. I do not mean for it to go this way. That's because your questions are. Say something mean. Then nice. Really fast.

No, no, now it's mean. Now it's mean. Now it becomes an epic roast. It becomes gross. I heard that you guys have nicknamed me Uncle Duke. Is that true? True.

No comments. Where did that come from? Because you're just so kind and lovely and supportive of us. I feel like you're always in the back of our minds of like, you know, like making the show better. Yeah. And I'm about 20 years older than you. And isn't that how old uncles are? And your uncle aged.

No, completely. And we invite, you know, when we're, you know, trying to get a show up the. ground, we invite a lot of people and we get a lot of nos. And the fact that you have come again and again, it's just, it's like, it's like, it means the world to us because that's all we want is for, is to have people we're a fan of see the show. Who hasn't come to the show of who you invited? Liva. We invited Lynn Manuel Miranda.

Okay. Via Instagram. It's a crazy delusional paragraph we wrote together. Hope Lynn sees this. Yeah, he's our June... He's our White Whale. Well, Heap was a fan of yours, even, like, years ago when you were in college and did that musical theater parody thing. Like, on Twitter.

Yes, he saw that. And actually, we talked to him at one of the after parties, and we went up to him and kind of were both a cocktail in our hand and we're like, we love you. We're obsessed with you. We're writing songs and you're writing songs and you meet everything to us. And then he was kind of like, okay, thank you so much. And he was completely lovely and nice and sweet. How many people come up to Lynn Miranda and go, we're writing songs, you're writing songs?

I don't know. I went up to him, I said, I see a lot of myself in you. Oh, my God. Let me give you my card. So let's talk about your new song. because last time we were here, you had a song in progress. Yes. And I think it went great.

I don't think we added anything to it that remained. But I think it was a good exercise. And I was curious if you wanted to share a new song today. Yes. I'd love to. We have one is kind of a song we've been playing live. But we haven't played it on here. Okay.

We recently did a new pass of it. Then one is a brand new song that is going to be in our show at Soho. Okay. So this is a song about basically how we feel about our phones. I threw my phone off a bridge in the Hudson. This week on a whim, I don't give a fuck. My screen time was 11 hours per day. I said, fuck that time to throw my phone off this bridge.

I cannot find my house Looking for landmarks I recognize Well my boss was always blowing me up Bitch you can slack the fish Because the fish half my phone Well the subway wanted me to tap a phone to the thing You've lost my business bitch I'll just take a petty cap

What the hell is this song? He says Bruno Mars. Well, it's fantastic. Where the hell is my house? Sir, where are we going? He says, we are just circling the zoo. But that won't help me. Let me out here.

Apple pay. Can I pay with a smile? He says no, so I run away, but I'll pay him back by finding a coin fountain. Fools are rotten online while I'm living real life, asking bus drivers how to mail a letter. Well, for dinner, I'll probably shoot a squirrel in the park, but for now, found some berries that taste like metal.

Everybody else is stuck in something I have named the blue dimension, sitting with your hand locked in the shape of a claw you haven't been sleeping. Everybody stare at, at their tiny box of light like a zombie moth. The box takes your soul to somewhere bad. You know it is the blue dimension.

Well, a woman lends me her phone so I can look on Apple Maps. Looking back, I think she thought I was mugging her. I get home and buy a new phone on my computer and a lockbox for it that I'll never use. never use. How many days have passed? Two hours and 40 minutes. Fantastic.

We're not fired. World heed my warning. Fuck the blue dimension. That's so good. So that's blue dimension. Thanks for coming in a tiny guest concert. Oh, that's called Blue Dimension. Can you explain the Blue Dimension part of it?

It's the only part I didn't fully get. Yes. Yeah, that's more of a kind of an emotional experience than maybe. That part of the song is an emotional experience. Not necessarily a logical experience. Okay, okay. The blue dimension is where you go when you're on your phone. Oh, okay.

Leave it, just at one point, leave it, was like, when I'm on my phone, I feel like I'm in some kind of blue dimension. Like, there's something there. And then we wrote it in. Yeah. That is one of the weird things about phones, which is, I've heard this point made recently of like, oh, we're heading towards AI and then somebody smarter than I was like, no, no, we're already there. We have these. So it's like we're delegating part of our brain to the answer giver, which is AI already. Yeah. And like, to your point, like, it's money. It's this. It's this. And it's like, it is like your song in the sense that it's like attempting to like wage wool.

on the phones. And it's so funny, it's got so many great lines. If you're still working on it, I have one thought, which is just like, there might be a turn in it where you're momentarily at peace.

Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Like, it works for a second. Yeah. It goes into, like, I have no money. I can't get a ride anywhere. But also, like, for like,

I don't know, four lines. Yeah. You'd be like, I'm at peace. Yeah. I understand myself. And then, ah. Yeah.

You know. Yeah. That would be fun at the beginning. That's fun at the beginning to go back to peace and then go back to freak out. Yeah, it is literally like phone is part of our brain when you lose the phone. Like, you lose your mind. It's insane. I started to do this thing where I, I, it's like my active revolution is waking up in the morning and not.

putting on my phone for 20 minutes. I know. That's like me being like, I'm free. Yeah. It's like nothing. Yeah, I know. Literally nothing.

I know. My screen time was 11 hours a day. I said fuck that time to throw, time to throw my phone. Oh, you know, it reminded me of. When my wife and I met, we, I showed up at her work, which was on the Hudson River,

and we made out in the, overlooking the Hudson River, and her phone fell out of her pocket. And into the river. And then she wrote a poem called Prank Calls from Fish. Oh, my gosh. That is so, wow. That is so spiritually linked. Isn't that something?

Yeah. And we have a line about fish. Yeah. It's a short poem, but it's from her book, Little Astronaut. The first time my husband kissed me, my cell phone fell out of my pocket into the Hudson River and to this day I still received prank calls from fish. That's the whole day. That's sweet.

That's really sweet. But it's really sweet. It was funny though, like in the sense that when it, her phone fell in the river, she just like didn't get another phone. For like... And kind of didn't think anything of it. It was a little like Mr. Magoo.

Just kind of like, okay, now I don't have a phone. That's so powerful. That's exactly what I would expect a poet to do. I love it. Okay, so let me play or let me tell you my idea for a song. I don't know if it could be a song, but it was a thing I wrote that I was like, oh, there's something here and it's not really stand up, but I was like, maybe it could be a song. And it was just like sometimes life is like a movie, your friend dies and it's crushing, but then part of you thinks, well, I guess he wasn't the protagonist. And then I just like, I was like, oh, yeah, sometimes like life is a movie.

It's like a theme that I was like that could be something. I wrote. Sometimes life is like a war movie and you can only hope that this movie is being made in the country that won the war. Sometimes life is like a Pixar film. It's so good. But then you're like, what age is this for? Sometimes life is like a documentary. You think it's about a comedian.

Then you realize it's about the uncle who molested the comedian. Oh, my God. Sometimes Life is like an indie film And you're like, I get that it's low budget But why would there be 15 people in the stands For a high school basketball game And then the final part is like

Life is like a movie that's too funny to be true And too sad to watch again And that's sort of like, I don't know More like the sentimental part of it Anyway If I was the Leva in this relationship And I come with lyrics How would you start to?

How would you start to make that a song? I would start probably like just playing like, like trying different chord progressions and then... Do you think this has a chance of being a song? Okay. Absolutely. Okay, let's give a shot. Let's try. Wait, yeah.

I feel like the life is like a movie has to refrain. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Yeah. Yeah. Like, life is like a movie. Do you guys want to sing over it? Yeah, I would do that. Yeah.

Here. Maybe I'll put it like up like this. It's like a movie. Your friend dies and it's crushing. And then part of you thinks I guess he wasn't the lead. Sometimes it's like a Pixar film. It's so, so good. But you're like, what age is this for?

Sometimes it's like a documentary you think it's about a comedian and then you realize it's about... Oh, we kept that one. I think that one's funny. It's a capturing the Friedman joke. Sometimes... Yeah, take it from the... Okay. The documentary one?

Yeah. Sometimes life is like a documentary. You think it's about a comedian. And then you realize it's about the uncle who molested the comedian. Did you take the thriller one? You want me to do the thriller one again? I'll do the thriller. Okay, okay, okay.

Sometimes life is like a thriller with very low stakes. Will the pizza arrive in 30 minutes? And then it doesn't. And then the second act is, will the pizza arrive in 20 minutes? And then it doesn't. And then the 30 times. realizing that the pizza doesn't always arrive when you wanted to and sometimes you accidentally bring breadsticks

because they didn't think you wanted pizza it's confusing and it's actually not a movie sometimes life is like a disaster film this is that that's one I love it you know what I think is this last one life is like a movie it's too funny to be true into you

sad to watch. I feel like this feels like the chorus. Yeah. You think that? Oh, that's interesting. This feels like the chorus. This feels like it almost unifies these. Right. So they like life. Life is like a movie that's too funny to be true and too sad to watch again. That's nice. Life is like a movie that's too funny to be true and too sad to watch again.

I messed that out. No, I did different things both times. And then you can, you can, we do a lot of kind of, like, tags in the form of just singing after. So it would be like, dude, sad to watch again. And then you could be like, I don't want to watch it. I don't want to watch the movie again. I like that. I don't want to watch it again.

I don't want to watch it again. I don't want to watch it again. Life is like a movie that's too funny to be true. And too sad to watch again. I don't want to watch it It's way too sad That is like a movie That's too funny to be true

And too sad to watch it That's nice though I love that as a chorus Yeah Because the movie's like movie unifies all the different genres So if you think about it as like That the chorus is life is like a movie That's too funny to be true

and too sad to watch again, I'm trying to break that down to like layperson's terms. Like, what does that mean? What is the song about? Mm-hmm. I think like it's about, I guess it goes back to like,

why did I even write this in the first place? I think for me, I watch so many movies that I'm constantly contextualizing everything that occurs in what kind of movie is this that I'm living in right now. Yeah.

Yes. Have you seen Stranger Than Fiction? Yeah. It's like that. Yeah, yeah, totally. I feel like there's something about where it's like you want, you kind of want life to be more like a movie. And the chorus is kind of like, but you know what?

I wouldn't want to watch this. Right. There is something funny about that. But it's like you want the cleanness of the genre to kind of like, you want like your life to have like, hey, like, hero's journey. But it's like what's frustrating is that. no you will never have that. Yeah.

All right. Do you want to go to your second song? Yes. Sure. Work song? Yes. Okay. And this one starts with dialogue from the show.

So in the show, we basically play versions of ourselves that are living in a world like our own, but that's a little bit crazier and wackier. and this part of the show is after we've just had a fun time hanging out, the crushing reality of having to go back to our nine to five day jobs. And in the show, we both have different nine to fives. So the start of the show is us on the phone. We're both at work. We're both at work on the phone explaining to customers what we do. Yeah.

So this is called work song. Hello. Hi. Customer service. Sure, I can give you an overview. Modern Fossil. KeepTabs is an exciting nonprofit. We are a resource to people who want to track whether someone else has taken their pill. Our work is recruiting law students to become ghost ambassadors for vintage energy, which is oil. How is that a non-profit? No idea. All right. Bye-bye. Working on my laptop, I send one email now, it's time to take a break. Head to the gender neutral bathroom, I lock the door and then just sit on the ground. Now back to working on my laptop, I save one file time for another break. Gerard from sales as if I'm mind running this memo to the ninth floor, I say it would be my honor.

I would love to do that. I hate my job so bad. This is not my path. I applied 400 places, and this is the one place I got back. I hate Gerard so bad, he talks to me like a policeman. I have a different sense of stakes from every single person here. I talk to my coworkers about their kids, and I am just making shit up. Baby has a lot of hair for six weeks.

Get back from the ninth floor to take another break. My boss says, can I talk to you? Okay. Okay. She says you're taking lots of breaks. Uh-oh. She cannot find out my job is easy. She says I'm worried you're not passionate about medical recruiting.

I say that's where you're dead wrong. She says I feel like you've been off task. Oh my God. Oh no, I have to fix this I say, I feel sick that I let you down. Girl, you are my idol. Give me more work. She says thank you for stepping up.

Say you later, girl. I hate my job so bad. And my boss as well, there's an anvil above my head. I'll do anything, she says. I need this job so bad. I lose this and life gets impossible. I picture my own death often. At least I'm safe inside this coffin.

The clock strikes five and I close my laptop like it's a bomb. Another eight hours of my life gone. Love it. That's my new favorite dupe song. What? It's good. I feel like the piano pattern is like it is what the song's about. Weirdly.

It's like typing. It's like, I think when Miranda'd like it. Because he'd get it. Because you do songs, he does songs. No, it's great. I love it. And then I love that like, I mean, this is always my favorite thing is like when you see like a great movie or a great, you know, sketch or whatever it is. And you're like, I don't know if that's their life, but it's somebody's life.

You know what I mean? Like it's just so vivid. Yeah. Yeah. Like one of the things that appeals to me is when you go like, this is not my path. Yeah. But like it, for me, it does make me go like, what's, what is your path? Yeah.

You know what I mean? And like, maybe I can land there or there could be some acknowledgement of like, what is your true passion. Yeah. I like that. Because like I'm, I'm like all in on what isn't your passion. Yeah. But then I'm just like, what is, what is, you know, what is it? Yeah.

Yeah. It could be fun to have, like, daydreaming section. That is like. I should be. Our characters are both very silly, and Jane's character in the show is an inventor. Yeah, my passion is an event. So you could have a bridge that's like, I wish I was in the lab. I wish I was in a big lab with shiny, bigger.

A beautiful, I'm picturing like a beautiful bridge that's just like, feels symphonic. And then it's back there. Boop boop boop boop boop bo yeah I like that I don't know I love that song I mean I just think it's great maybe that maybe not but like I just think that that's such a good song So the last thing we do is working out for a cause

Is there a nonprofit you like to contribute to And we will link to them in the show notes and contribute Awesome we would love to send people to survive and punish New York SMP New York is a grassroots prison abolition organization dedicated to freeing criminalized survivors of gender violence held in prisons in New York. And the URL is Survived and Punished.org. Yes.

We'll contribute to them. We'll link to them in the show notes. Thank you, Dukes, for coming on again. I can't wait to see the next show. Thank you so much for having us. Working it out because it's not done. Working it out. That's going to do it for another episode of Working It Out.

you can follow Dukes on Instagram at Dukes the show. Leva Pierce at Chopt Leva and Jane Wickline at Jane Wickline. Go see Dukes at Soho Playhouse in New York. Tickets at Sohohoeyhouse.com. Burbigs.com to sign up for my mailing list. Our producers of working out of myself along with Peter Salomon, Joseph Barbiglia, Mabel Lewis, and Gary Simons. Sound mixed by Ben Cruz.

Supervising engineer Kate Balinski's special thanks. As always to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers for their music, special thanks to my wife, the poet, Jay Hopestein. And our daughter, Una, who built the art. original Radio for Made of Pillows. Thanks most of all to you are listening. If you enjoy this podcast, please rate us and review us on Apple Podcast.

We really appreciate it. It helps other people know where to begin, if they're just finding the show, because there's so many darn podcasts. We appreciate you listening. Tell your friends, tell your enemies, tell your comedy duo partner. Let's say you're rehearsing a show

with your comedy partner, and they need to take five minutes. Just say, hey, you do what you got to do, take some time, get it out of your system. what? After you do that, take an extra five minutes and just listen to Mike Brubigley's working it out. It's a calming podcast. It doesn't get too wild on there. They're just level-headed conversations and interpersonal discussions of deep feelings and things that could become jokes. Maybe we could even listen to it together. Thanks, everybody. We're working it out. We'll see you next time.