Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 23. Ramy Youssef: Kicked in the Golden Globes

Episode Date: November 23, 2020

Mike welcomes award-winning comedian Ramy Youssef. The two friends discuss the unexpectedly controversial elements of his hit series “Ramy.” They also work on jokes about bad wedding speeches, getting kicked in the balls, and the time Ramy told people in Jacksonville that he was Muslim to which a woman replied, “We don’t do that here.” Well, the good news is: we do this here. Enjoy. Please consider donating to: Muslim Anti-Racism Collaborative https://www.muslimarc.org/

So you're in New Jersey right now? Yeah, bro. We're Jersey style right now, dude. I'm at my childhood home, my parents' house. Oh my gosh. Good for you. Good for you. It's all happening.

Something is happening. I don't know if it's all happening, Rami. Hey, friends. Mike Birbiglia here. Happy Thanksgiving to you. It's a big week. We're putting on these Working It Out virtually shows on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. So you can watch with your families, even if one of you is in Ohio and the other one is in Connecticut. You can share this thing. That's sort of fun.

We just put a trailer up on Instagram. So if you go to at4bigs on Instagram, you can see what the virtuals are like. They're really sort of a cool, one of a kind thing. And today we have an episode, one of my favorite episodes of all time, Rami Youssef. This guy, he really is a prodigy. I'd say he's about 30 years old. He has his own series on Hulu called Rami that has won a Golden Globe. It's been nominated for multiple Emmys. He's won a Peabody Award. He has his own HBO stand-up special called Feelings that's hilarious. I just, I am just infinitely entertained by and impressed by my guest today. I hope you enjoy this chat as much as I did.

Rami Youssef. So you and I met through our mutual friend, a very funny comedian, Josh Rabinowitz, who I've toured with a lot over the years. And a few years ago, actually, he just said to me, sort of like, you got to see my friend Rami. This was before your series and your special. Yeah. And I watched you at the Cellar. You had a joke that like I still quote to people because it just nails a truth,

which is it was right around the time of the Michael Jackson documentary. And you go like, people are like, where were the parents? And you make this point, you go like, you have to remember, this was peak Michael Jackson. This was like 80s, like most popular Michael Jackson. It's like if LeBron asked your son to play basketball

in his backyard and you'd be like, yeah, you know. And that analogy is, and I'm sorry if I'm butchering it, but it's like, to me, I was like, that joke gets to the heart of, I it, but it's like to me, I was like that joke gets to the heart

of I think what all jokes want to be, which is it's just true. The joke was yeah, the joke was like like I grew up with white Michael, but but they knew like peak Michael, you know, like like like really just like the peak and, and, and everyone thought it was so weird. But if I really think about it, like, what if there was someone that I just really, you know, really respected and I had to ask myself, like, would I let my kids sleep next to LeBron James? You know, like, like, like if he was like, yeah, you know, we were just like shooting hoops and then we got tired and we just kind of crashed out on this bed. And, and I don't know, it's like when you're kids around, I just, I feel like I could beat the warriors. And then I was like, Whoa, like, I mean like you could beat the warriors.

I mean like, ah, man, I hate the warriors. I mean that, that, so that, that was kind of the, that was the punchline. I think it was like, you can beat the warriors. It's just such a hard, uh, it's such a painful, the funny thing too, the funny thing too, Mike, is that I think when we met, I was, I was like a month out from shooting my special. And I think you, the funny thing about you pointing out that joke is, um, I actually remember being on the subway with you after I did that joke. And, uh, that was the second time I'd ever done the joke. And, and, and, and, and it was the second time I'd ever done the joke. And it was so funny because I was like kind of working on a bunch of other stuff. But I was kind of like, oh, I think this is like one of my favorite jokes that I've written.

And I kind of just found it. And do you find that? Like, I always find anytime I'm getting close to the date of something, I just start writing way better stuff. It's almost like a survival thing. I'm like, yeah, yeah,'s coming. You know, like the thing's coming. Like you gotta, it's time to eat dinner. Like just, it just ramps up and my writing gets so much better. I feel like on the subway, because in the slow round of the show,

we talk about like memories that run on a loop. I remember that subway perfectly. It was the night we met. I saw you do that joke. Then you go, we're heading downtown on the F train. You want to join us? I think it was you and the Lucases and maybe one other comic? Todd Berry.

Todd Berry. Yep. And I was like, sure. And then I was maybe going to join you at some comedy room you were going to. And then like halfway there, which is a classic like being married and having children thing, I was just like, no, I think I sort of like want to be home with my wife and daughter. And so I headed home.

But it was one of those things where I was, it's quintessential, I never use this term, but like FOMO moments of like, what's their night going to be like? Their night seems like it's going to be really interesting. Mine is just, you know, heading home for some warmth. And then, you know, the thing is, though, it's like, I think that's what you think. It's like, it's and I would imagine being married and having a kid is a lot of that of like, what are they going to do? But then like, you know, I'm sure you you gone down this logical, but I'll tell you, I don't remember that night.

But I also do remember that night, like after you parted ways with us. I don't even need this specific to tell you that it probably was us just kind of running around, like maybe half texting women who might be somewhere that we wanted to go and then going home with like a bag of candy and porn hub. Like, like it wasn't like, you know, like it wasn't. Even, even that Rami sounds very exciting. Actually. You're like, wait, were you alone at home? That's awesome. The, uh, the candy, uh, yeah, the candy thing I've noticed lately is a trend with you young comics.

You're going hard on candy. We put a bunch of it in the second season of the show where my character is kind of really into it. It's such dopamine, right? Oh, yeah. Sugar is such a drug, man's it's really tough to kick i have a joke about coffee being sort of like that too but it's like it but it's basically like that you know that coffee is is essentially it's you're making a deal with this drug to like feel like pretty energized for like 20 minutes. And but honestly, I feel like if you enjoy 20 minutes of your day, I think that's enough. I think 30 minutes and you're basically a Buddha.

I mean, if you could have like 20 minutes of pure joy, that is, yeah, that is really beautiful. I mean, it's funny that you call it that because I historically have never drank coffee. In the last two years, I've started to figure out like what is my deal with coffee. I tend to like drink it once a week and i'm not even kidding like if i i'll buy it and i'll drink half a cup and then i'll throw it out because if i drink the whole cup i'm up until 4 a.m wow and then i'll sleep for like three hours and i'll wake up and i'll be good for the rest of the day and and it really like a body that's not used to caffeine you really understand oh yeah the drug it is it's a hard drug really it's a body that's not used to caffeine, you really understand how much of a drug it is.

It's a hard drug. It's a hard drug. I can't believe people drink it like twice a day. No, it's absurd. It's absurd. Is it? I don't, I mean, I'm trying to think. Is it, because you're serious, if people don't know this from your show or your special, you're serious about Islam, you know, so it's like, is it? And when I say serious,

I mean, like, I'm like, I'm Catholic, but I'm putting that in like hard quotation marks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You take it seriously and practice. Yeah, I would say that I'm like, I'm very actively engaged with it like it so so I'm never, you know, I try to be kind of open about where I'm at, just in the sense of, I think the definition of someone who's engaging with a spiritual practice is that they already are the transformed result of going through that practice. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, it's, it's, it's like someone, a lot of religion is like,

yeah, someone acting like they have a six-pack and they just got a gym membership. And that's not really where I'm at. I'm more just like, I struggled to go to the gym, but I really want to go to the gym. And that's kind of where I'm at. And I do go, and then I injured my ankle, and then now I'm nursing it back, and I'm coming back. And so it's a big part of my life. But the coffee thing is not part of it. The coffee thing is a Mormon thing, by the way.

No, I know it's a Mormon. That's why I was asking because I know whenever I go to Salt Lake City, I'm always like fascinated by the like no coffee phenomenon because I'm such a coffee nut. And that's why I was like, wait, is it part of Islam? But maybe not. Well, you know, it's funny. I don't know if you noticed this in Salt Lake, but they have amazing tea houses. And I don't know if that's just like a loophole, but like the best tea I've ever gotten in my life was in Salt Lake because there was all these like tasting and testing rooms. And like, I got like a really nice tea set and, and a lot of nice, you know,

yeah, it was, it was really cool. Like I was, I was impressed with, with what they were doing with it over there. I love Salt Lake. I mean,

Salt Lake is like one of those places where you just go like, like, I don't like if we were to line up what our beliefs are, they would not, not many of them would match. But I have to say, these are some of the nicest people I've encountered. And it's also just like beautiful,

like to kind of have that mountain backdrop to everything you're doing and the air feels clean. Like if we weren't so bought into New York, LA propaganda, I'd probably move to Salt Lake. I feel like there's a bunch of cities like that where you're in it and you're like, I totally would be happy living here if I wasn't just plugged into this other story. Of course. Of course. I mean, there's so many places like that. Seattle's like that. Portland, Oregon's like that. Like there's a lot. Jacksonville, Florida, you know, you down there. Dude there dude i mean when i was sitting at the comedy

zone in the in the what is it what hotel you ever do that room it's like a hotel in jacksonville florida that has a comedy club in it no and um oh dude i mean talk about just peak living just jacksonville is like one of the only places where i got like complaints on my show it was a thank god for jokes tour and places where I got like complaints on my show. It was a thank God for jokes tour. And I got like straight up complaints on it being too dirty or too crass, you know. And I didn't realize just how religious of a town it is. One of my first jokes was just talking about something that happened in Jacksonville.

Like it wasn't even a joke. It was I was on stage. And I said that I was Muslim. And then a woman in the crowd just said, we don't do that here. And but and that was that was it. We don't we don't do that here. And I remember, I remember kind of my riff at the time was just like the way she said it was actually so gentle because it wasn't like get out. It was almost just like, oh, my God, Aaron Jacksonville is not conducive. Oh, my God. You know, like we tried to grow them, you know, a couple crops back. But, you know, we don't do that here. It's not.

That is a. Wait, did you put that on the special? I forget. I don't think I did. It was it was that was one of my first jokes i i don't um i don't know if i ever did that anywhere i feel like i would keep that in the mix i mean it's just such a great detail i've been doing this thing lately where i've been going back into my old notebooks because what i find is that a lot of like when you were starting out you were writing down things that were like setups and punchlines, right?

But you're not that good at writing punchlines when you're starting out. So the punchlines are like terrible. But the setups are good. The setups are good. The setups are really good. And like, so like that's a perfect example of like your setup is basically this true story.

She goes, we don't do that here and you could go so many directions at that i mean you could i mean you could talk about that for 10 minutes that's really funny you weren't capable of doing it at the time because you weren't experienced enough as a comic yeah at the time i could only really talk i mean actually i think when i just described it to you right now, it's funnier than when I did it on. Like, I just punched it up even just in convo. Yeah, I see more in it.

But at the time, I was just like, can you guys believe this happened? And that was kind of just like, that was just kind of where the joke ended because you don't really you don't yeah, you don't know how to proceed. You know, you you know how to pay attention. I mean, mean like and interestingly it's like that in in many ways it's almost like your voice as a comic is identified really early on because it's like what do you pay attention to that's kind of the core of of art it's like oh wow this person paid attention to that yeah and and and when they paid attention to that here's

what they did with it. And in the beginning, you don't know what to do with it, but you know what you're paying attention to. And I find that to be really cool. Stepping away from my chat with Rami to send a shout out to Bicycle Coffee. Bicycle Coffee is a family business started in

Oakland in 2009. They do monthly subscriptions. I have one. You can get light roast, medium roast, dark roast. I get the dark roast. They have fast and free shipping on all orders. If you use the discount code Burbiggs, you get 15% off at BicycleCoffeeCo.com. And a really cool thing is that a portion of all of their sales are donated to the World Bicycle Relief. That's an organization that provides bicycles to students, health workers, and entrepreneurs in developing regions in the world. Bicycle Coffee, they're great. And now back to the show. You and I have talked about this before.

Like, your comedy is edgy. You take a lot of chances. You talk about religion, which is always a third rail. Like, do you get more criticism from people who hate Muslims or Muslims? Definitely from the Muslim community, for sure. Muslim communities, I mean, I've even slipped by saying the Muslim community. It's not a monolith. So it's like you kind of have a variety of different points of view under this really massive umbrella. Right. So, um, and I think

there's this scarcity of material and there's like a scarcity of art really, that's trying to have even somewhat of an optimistic light. So something like my show comes along and then people, um, from a press standpoint, from a marketing standpoint or whatever, it's like, hey, Muslims, here's your show. And it's so I mean, if I wasn't like a late 20s Arab Muslim dude from Jersey who watched too much porn, I would be like, this is not my show. What are you talking about? Like this has nothing to do with me. And I think I'm not surprised by it. But the thing is, the love that also comes from the Muslim communities that are really, you know, engaged in the show, the various ones who

really get into it is like really overwhelming. And that's really cool, where people are like, yo, this is like, you're hitting the thing that that I've been feeling and I hadn't seen. And so it's a really, um, yeah, it's, it's, it's hard to have one without the other. So, so I, I really appreciate both. And, and in terms of the people who, um, don't like Muslims, they don't see the show, you know, and that's the, it's not their thing. They don't see this special. I mean, like I remember putting like, that was one of the biggest lessons I've had. And it speaks to the multiple realities that we're living in, right? Because it's like, you can create your own environment in which wearing a mask is propaganda. and you know and and and this and that and i you know you and netflix will even do it for you they'll they'll you watch the ranch for more than two episodes you're never gonna see anything that has a brown face on that algorithm like it's like they're everyone is going to be able to

look at what they want to look at and so um yeah i'm not which is even further a step of like why I make what I make and how I make it, which is like I am wanting to nuance to the choir. You know, I'm wanting to kind of, you know, I know I have a captive audience, but I want to really kind of talk about the tension that's even within. Right. Because it's like because everything is so polarized, like there's right and there's left. And I'm like, no, there's four lefts. Yeah. It's like, it's like, it's like, yeah, I'm left. Oh man. I'm one of four lefts. And, and so I think that's kind of how I feel when, um, you know, when, when the various types of Muslims watch my show, which is like, you know, how dare you even think this was supposed to be for you before you even gave it a

shot? Like, why would you think that it was, there are so many of us so that that kind of happens on both ends. Um, but yeah, man, it, it, it's been a really illuminating thing to kind of realize that, um, look, there's a couple of like right wing hit articles and, you know, uh, Ram Yusuf's trying to spread Islam, you know, and Islam and all that kind of stuff, which is who's to say if that's true or not. But it's like... It's working. Whatever you're doing, Rami, is working.

I know. You kept hitting me up about how to do Ramadan, which I thought was really, really exciting. But it's not in the way that I would think. So yeah, that's the long answer. I was doing like 15 meals a day. Is that what it is? You did reverse Ramadan at a certain point, which I thought was an interesting kind of fuck you to the Muslims. But yeah. I was doing well, my strict rule during Ramadan is I make sure I have to finish the pizza if I

start the pizza. Is that part of Ramadan? Yeah, in solidarity with all those who are currently not eating. Yeah. Yes, yes, yes. What is the, is there an episode of the show that's most controversial, like that Muslims are upset about a specific thing? It's more like there are episodes that aren't controversial. Like it's kind of like, it's kind of like there are certain ones that kind of like pop out, but we, you know, we have a lot of, um, there was one, you know, I don't really ever have regrets about anything. Um, there was one thing I did have a regret on where I made a mistake, which was we, um, okay. So I would say our most controversial episode is one that we shot with Mia Khalifa,

the porn star, and she was in it. And it's kind of this out of the box episode. And, and I really, we had a lot of fun with it. And I really, I really loved the episode. There was one fraction of a line where she's basically talking about being banned from Lebanon and how, you know, ISIS was after her and pointing out the hypocrisy where it's like, you know, how do they even know me, right? It's because they watch my porn. And then she says a line that is incorrect. She says, statistically, the Muslim countries are watching the most porn. And then they're also, you know, coming after me the hardest. And that word statistically, like I really regretted, I actually ended up getting it pulled from the broadcast because the stat wasn't true. And so I

had like a bunch of people kind of really upset. Yeah, why did you say statistically, and then I kind of looked around and it's like, it used to be true. It was like an old stat. It's not like the current stat. It's kind of semantics. But like, I think the reason it bothered me is because my favorite thing about comedy is that it doesn't have to be factually true. Like that is what I like about it. But then I was like, Oh, well, I made the mistake by putting that one word and making it. Yeah. Yeah. Like I made an assertion when like, my whole thing is that I'm not going to make an assertion. And so it was kind of like some so some people will be like, man, why is there all this? Why is there all that? Why is that? And it doesn't do anything to me. And then someone was like,

that's that's not true. And yeah, I felt like fire go through my body. And I was like, how could I do this? Like, that was the thing that where I felt like, whoa, I really messed up. But it was, you know, and then I got it pulled and whatever, but I mean, that doesn't, that doesn't, um, fix everything because it was out there for as long as it was out there and people have it, you know, and, and our show is massively, um, you know, bootlegged and all that because Hulu is only domestic. And so it's picked up in other places, but like people are like kind of ravenously spreading it around because, you know, we're kind of, we're touching on something that a lot of the world has been wanting to see. And that's really exciting. But But look, I mean, that that's that that thing was was like a hot point.

Yeah, for sure. And I, you know, totally, you know, respect that. And, and, and, but, but it's also like, you know, it's, it's, it's still a comedy. And, and, and it's, it's still like, you know, if you were taking stats from me or Mia, I would be worried. Yeah, totally. And, and, and, you know, it's like neither of us are. And also it was true, it was true at a period of time. And the show technically is nowhere in space and time. Technically it doesn't exist so this is a section of the show we call the slow round and it's it's sort of like

like memories like do you have a memory from childhood that's sort of on a loop in your brain, but it's not a story per se. That's interesting. I feel like there's, I feel like there's a few, I mean like. Or anything that makes you cringe when you think you're like, ah. You know, this is so weird. And I, I wasn't planning on,

I really wasn't planning on talking any of this but it's interesting that I had this um I went to public school before I moved to Jersey I went to public school in New York and there was there's this memory being a really felt like I was like the perfect target or whatever and she'd make fun of me and she'd say I looked like a monkey and stuff and then um she kicked me one day in in in the balls and I started bleeding like I guess like I guess my God. I guess like my ball sack opened or something. I don't know what happened. But there was like blood everywhere. And then I was in the stall.

And then I remember like the whole class outside the stall, like boys and girls, like everyone went into the boys' room because I like ran to the stall, but there was like blood. And then I just remember the embarrassment. And I remember I remember her like from the outside the stall kind of being like like she was so soft. She was like, I'm sorry. And then I remember like my brain fast forwards to my uncle picked me up because I guess my parents were both at work. And he bought me a Game Boy that I had been begging for.

And I like sat in the bathtub bleeding with a Game Boy. my parents were both at work and he bought me a game boy that i had been begging for and i like sat in the bathtub bleeding with a game boy yeah um i think about that loop like all the time if you wanted to make that a joke like i feel like there's a joke in in the idea of like i know a lot of you have been kicked in the balls before but but how many have been kicked in the balls to the point of blood? Dude, I think about that all the time. Like, it's so wild you asked me that question because I haven't, I've maybe told that story to like a few friends over the years, but it's not something like this.

It's like, who breaks the skin getting kicked in the balls? Oh, man. I wish I knew where she was now. That's a lot. Do you have any, when you were growing up, was there a group that wouldn't let you in, like in school, that kind of thing? I mean, you know, it's interesting.

I kind of went to this school where oddly it kind of felt like we were all weird. Everyone just kind of seemed kind of weird. I definitely felt a little more outsider-y. I remember there being a shift after 9-11 when I grew up and there was definitely this, like, you know, like I remember like, like the girl Scouts kind of not really wanting my mom and sister to be part of the girl Scouts anymore. Like it was like kind of like, yeah,

it was kind of like a little weird, like for a beat. I don't know if it lasted. I think it was just kind of like, Hey, let's chill for a sec. Like almost, you know what I mean?

Like, like, um, as if we just had a fight and everyone was like, let's just, um, let's just let it air out. And we were like, we didn't have a, you know, we didn't have a fight. That was almost the attitude. It was kind of like, Hey, um, yeah, just, let's just like

chill for a minute. And so that was kind of like this moment. How old were you at that point? Well, I was, um, I was 11. So it was pretty formative at the time. And I remember kind of like, you know, yeah, I remember feeling that vibe. That was a vibe for a bit. But then I almost kind of at some point flipped the switch and became like more social because of it where I was like, well, I'm going to like class president by the end of middle school, you know. Wow. So it was like, it was a, you know, a big emotional kind of rags to riches student council victory. I remember Fox News was very concerned that you had become class president. They ran with that for a while. That was all over Breitbart for a period of time.

Dude, they're taking over middle school legislatures. They're taking over student councils. Stepping away from my conversation with Rami to send a shout out to our sponsor, Spindrift Sparkling Waters. Most sponsors with podcasts, they call the podcast. They go, hey, I'd like to be an advertiser. Well, guess what? I like Spindrift Sparkling Waters so much that I called them. I said, I want you to send me waters because it's just, it's a really simple thing. It's sparkling water with real squeezed fruit.

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And now back to the show. off your first order. And now back to the show. So I have some bits that I wanted to run by you. Hit me. Here we go. This is not unusual for us because this is what we do

when we see each other at the Comedy Cellar, so it's not out of the ordinary. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I've been doing outdoor shows. I actually just recently did my final one. And they're a little bit like giving a wedding speech. It's like a bad microphone in a tent

that doesn't fit more than like 11 people. And we're on a lawn in the back of a hotel. And I'm like, I'vemmy circle since third grade i know suzanna circle since i was born you know and it just got me thinking about like wedding weddings and wedding speeches right and like and like because i've been to a lot of weddings and my conclusion conclusion is that other than the best man and the maid of honor, I feel like no speeches. Because the qualifications after the first two slots are that you're drunk enough to feel like

your opinions should be heard through a microphone. And like when I do jokes or setups and punchlines and in wedding speeches, there's setups and punchlines and in wedding speeches there are setups and friendship enders like one time i was at a wedding and this guy goes uh me and kelly used to you know and everyone froze like literally like i looked at my friend chris and i go is this a setup or a friendship ender and he goes goes, I think it's both. And then, yes, I got that. And then I was sort of like thinking about all the weddings I went to.

And I was like, I find the more money people throw at the wedding, the lower the odds of success are of the marriage. Like it's like saying like, no pressure on the marriage, but we did rent the train station for it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like when I graduated from college, my first friends who got married, and they're very sweet people, they got married at Union,

they rented, not making this up, Union Station in Washington, D.C. Union Station. Oh my God. They got divorced like five years later and they didn't have that at the train station, in DC. Union Station. Oh my god. They got divorced like five years later, and they didn't have that at the train station, though I believe

they did take trains to different cities forever. By the way, that actually was my wedding speech, and it was a friendship ender. That's so funny. That's the whole bit. It's sort of a free association about weddings

and just sort of like, I don't know. I don't know where it's going to land eventually, but it's sort of just about, maybe it'll just end up being in some kind of thing about rituals because my whole, the new show is called the YMCA Pool that I'm working on. It's all about entering middle age and sort of realizing I'm

halfway through my life and sort of evaluating like these larger things. And like, I do think like there's certain things like weddings where I'm like, I, I, it just, at this age, it just feels silly. It's like this thing that we've been doing for all, you know, centuries, but it just, it just feels not quite right. I mean i mean putting putting a lot of money into um into it uh there's got to be some sort of quibi analogy there quibi of course is the streaming platform that sort of has billions of dollars in it and it collapsed in like two weeks or something but there's there's something about um everyone being like so drunk when they're going up to give speech like as like

the longer the speeches go on um where it's like at a certain point you'd almost rather hear from the caterer like like that's such a good point like he might be the only one sober enough to know the groom at this point like That's such a good point. There's something funny about just like, I'd rather someone random just give me a parable about marriage than hear about this weird fucking thing from somebody. Yeah. It's also like, yeah. And also maybe there's something about the Bible and how like people will read passages

from the Bible at weddings and you're sort of like, well, I don't know if that applies. You know, like women used to be property. Like I don't know if we should really be digging into the Bible passages on marriage so hard. Also, you've been doing coke all weekend. Like is that anything? hard also you've been doing coke all weekend like is that do you have any bits that you're working on right now um you know i've been like i got i got this

notebook here i've been writing some some stuff like i i had something that's like, I kind of want two therapists. Like, like, like, like kind of just feeling like, like my therapist doesn't really sense enough competition. Like, and I kind of felt it because I started seeing, like, I have a therapist, but then I started seeing this acupuncturist who would also like talk about stuff. And then I had this moment where like, puncturist who would also like talk about stuff and then like sure i had this moment where like um you know i noticed my therapist kind of oh time's up and like i kind of saw her like clock watching a little and and i was just there was this part of me that was just like how dare you like my god do you understand like how good of a client i am like like you don't even like like like i like i my childhood shit is so easy compared to other things like like

haven't been molested not gonna molest like like i like like like what what what do i have like like some like identity issues and religious confusion like yeah like like like i'm a fucking dream like like do you have any idea how many therapists would love to have me in their calendar and and just this idea that's very go to a therapist, they're just like, you know, therapists are just like, yeah, you can only see me because of this and that, which is like such a shitty business model. Because that doesn't put me in an advantage. Like, I'm just beholden to your analogies. Like, I want the best analogies that I can find. You know, like, I want.

You want free market therapy. Yeah, I want free market. I want multiple people telling me what's going on. And the second I got a second therapist, I see her up her game. Because last week she's watching the clock. She finds out I'm seeing someone else. And suddenly she comes in with this killer analogy.

Oh, wow. I've been thinking about your life is like a tree. It's an elevated version of selfishness where if you just focus on growing, you grow for all those around you. And I'm like, whoa, where was this fucking tree analogy? Wait, can you say the analogy again? So if you focus on the growth, you only grow for people around you? Is that what it is? So this is an analogy actually that I came up up with but i put it in the joke but it's this analogy where i was i was thinking about like

um like trees and how trees are kind of in a way um they could almost kind of seem selfish because all they do is just grow they're just trying to get bigger yeah um but like the bigger they get they actually help all the trees around them and they also help the people because it's like if you just do what you're supposed to do you just grow like trees don't stop growing like they don't stop to like jerk off they don't like ignore sunlight they're not like i'm not gonna like photosynthesize today like they're they're like they're like like trees are like act they do everything humans don't which is like you give them what they need and they're going to do it they're not going to up. And then the bigger they get and the more powerful they get, they like make shade for

people. They create oxygen. Yeah, yeah. Birds build nests. Like lovers carve their names in their trunks. It's like this like beautiful thing. And so for a while in my life, I'm like, oh man, I want to like, I want to live like a tree.

Like if I could just fulfill what I'm supposed to do, I'll be who I'm supposed to be for everyone around me. And, um, and so I kind of had this idea of in the bit, like my therapist telling me that, but like only after I got another therapist and I'm just like, I'm like, where the fuck was it? Like last week you told me it was just because of my dad. And now all of a sudden, like I'm a tree, like, like how did that happen? That's really funny. might also be funny if like so you tell the therapist the tree analogy and then and then she's like you know like I don't see it like you're a tree I think of you more like a pillow where you're you're trying to like to to soften the blow of the heads of the people you're closest to you know

your parents and your siblings you know like it might be a funny like competing analogy and then i went back to that therapist i said then i said well i kind of what do you think about me being a pillow and then she's like right but but if anything you know i want us to think about that mattress under the pillow because this is about infrastructure. It also might be funny if at some point you're tempted to just be a little more of a critical consumer where you want to be like, she says the thing about the tree and you're like,

I feel like you've used that before. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it doesn't sound me specific. Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. I love that. I love that bit that you have about how you went to therapy and then your, your family didn't want you to go to therapy. Yeah. The, the, this is like kind of an extension of that bit. Like, cause I was

thinking about that stuff. Um, yeah, the bit is like, um, you know, I told my dad, I was going to see a therapist and he was like, I can't believe you're going. I thought, I thought you believed in God. And I'm like, yeah, I do believe in God, but God can't be your therapist. The therapist has to be Jewish. You can't. It has to be Jewish. You ever go to not a Jew? It's terrible.

They have no advice. It's not. You could tell. You're like, is this Old Testament or New Testament? And then I kind of go into, you know, and then my dad will call me sarcastically being like, you know, he'll tell me all these problems that he has. And he's like, he's pretty emotional, but then he'll get really sarcastic and just be like, huh, I wonder what your little therapist would say about that. And then, uh, and then he'll call me like two

days later and be like, say, so what'd she say? Like, like, what am I supposed to do? Like, how do I call back there and be like, he's like, am I the to do like how do i that's really funny you might call back there and be like he's like am i the tree or am i the pillow yeah that's funny i did that too because like i don't know what's going into this thing where i'm like it's like they're viewing me going to therapy like it's like a costco membership like it's for the whole family so it's like like like everyone's calling me with their problems and then my sessions don't even make sense because i'm i'm trying to go for the whole family. So the therapist is like, how's it going with your girlfriend?

And I'm like, you know, I'm like, well, she's fine. But like, what do you do when your children leave? Like, how do you find your place in this country as an immigrant? And she's like, I didn't know you had kids. I'm like, I have menopause. And I have like a lot of things we got to talk about today that's very funny that's um i had this one thing which i'm curious what you think of this last thing i had in this notebook uh i was just thinking about like

um you know call me by your name and like broke back and like all these movies that are like really good movies that even conservative people have to, they kind of get on board just cause the movie is so well made. Sure. And so I just kind of wrote like, you know, Republicans need to make a moonlight. Oh my gosh.

Like a movie that's so like the, the relationship is just so riveting that you're like, go just bomb the abortion clinic. Just do it. It's the best thing for you. Like if they could get liberals to be like, keep the baby. Like such a riveting film. That is so funny. Like such a riveting film that you're just like uh just fucking build the wall like it's gonna keep you together like if you don't build that wall like how will you ever keep this love going that's really funny oh that's that's really good it's funny because i had i wrote this bit this week that may form into something, which is like I try to understand my parents.

And, you know, they're 80. And like they're sort of in the – at least my dad is sort of in the conservative media like bubble or whatever. And I was thinking about how a few years ago I took a flight to Australia. It was 23 hours long. And I was like, you know what? I'm going to use this time. I'm going to watch Gone with the Wind.

You know how you have a checklist of movies? You're like, I'm supposed to see Chinatown. I'm supposed to see Gone with the Wind, whatever. It was a checklist of like canon movies. And it's like four hours, five hours long, whatever. I watch it. I'm like, all right right check that off the list went to australia saw gone with the wind and then like six months ago they're like gone with the wind is racist we will never speak of it again and i'm like okay we'll never speak of it again uh and i feel like with my with my parents it's like they're the last

60 years of their life was watching gone with the wind and then like right before they're gonna die everyone's like oh yeah by the way you're racist you know and oh that's so funny you know and they're like but but i don't but i don't think i am though No, no, no, you're racist. All right, goodbye. And I think that's how I understand my parents. That's so funny, dude. That's a really good joke. Because I don't mind being like, okay, we'll never speak of Gone with the Wind again. But it would be weird if that was every movie

I had basically ever seen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All of it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All of it was... Every TV show, everything. You're like, one last thing before you die. You suck! Stepping away from my conversation with Rami Youssef to talk about merch table uh we've been

working with these guys for more than 10 years i feel lucky to have found them if you have a band or if you're a comedian you have an organization i recommend you reach out to these guys they get things done uh they support bands and artists and organizations selling t-shirts, posters, books. We got on our merch table site, we got zip hoodies. We got signed books. Vinyls of the new one. Vinyls of Thank God for Jokes.

They do live show fulfillment. They've got an amazing art director named Adam Jeffers who's done the key art for a bunch of my shows. I can't recommend these folks more highly. You can hit up our store at burbiggs.com. And now back to the show. So one thing I've never asked anyone on the show,

but because we're friends, I feel like I'm comfortable asking you this. What do you as someone who knows me like when you watch me perform do you ever think like i'd like to see mike talk about this thing that he he doesn't talk about or like i want to see a side of mike that i know from off stage that i don't see on stage you know how you have that with comics sometimes where you're like i wish josh would talk about this, you know, like that kind of thing. Well, it's interesting because it's like the thing that kind of just came to mind is like, I think it's so small too, because it's like, we mostly hang around the comedy club or

get some food. So this is going to sound really funny, but I actually feel like I've seen you order food and you actually have this certainty when you're doing it. That's so funny. It's really like, I think you're kind. And I kind of saw something in your eye, like ordering food once where I was like, oh, this guy knows exactly what he's doing. He knows exactly what he's doing.

And it's funny because I think a lot of your standup is, you're sitting in your anxieties, which are totally real. And you're positive. But I also think there's this part of you that like knows exactly what the fuck you're doing. And I would be so curious to see something from that point of view. That's like almost calculated, like just kind of like, I don't know. It's just such a small glimpse of something i've probably seen in your eyes once what you're also speaking to though is like addiction to food yeah yeah yeah i know exactly what you're talking about and i think i could write i think i could write something on that you know because i do i do think like one of the things that all of us are

sort of trying to do in some ways is like crack open the thing in us that we're deeply resisting talking about yeah and and almost like like hiding or resentful of and it's interesting because it's like we're we're so like vulnerable about so much but but it's like it's almost like it's just because there's stuff that's so much deeper that's like all right well i'll talk about all this surface stuff and so it's like, it's almost like, it's just because there's stuff that's so much deeper that's like, all right, well, I'll talk about all this surface stuff. And so it's like, sometimes I feel like our surface stuff is like, for other people, everyone's like, oh, whoa, I can't believe that's what's going on with them. And then you're like, no, there's even more shit that you don't know about. Yeah. This is the final section of the show we call Working It Out for a Cause. Is there a nonprofit that you would like to shine a light on that we can contribute to at the show?

Oh, you know, there's this really cool nonprofit that I like a lot called Muslim Arc, the Muslim Anti-Racism Collaborative. And they do a lot of work for Muslims and non-Muslims. But they're really about kind of providing a lot of resources. And they look at Black Muslim communities and also kind of re-educating people on like the deep systemic racism that is happening, you know, that kind of is, I think at the core of a lot of the conversations

that we're having. That's amazing. Well, I'm going to contribute to them. That sounds great. And I'm actually going to, I'm really curious to see what they do because that sounds like such a great organization. Yeah, they do like training, consulting,

and they also do like a lot of work through like media and storytelling. And, you know, they'll advise on anything from like TV shows or whatever. But I think they also, yeah, do like training for, you know, workplaces and like that kind of thing where, where they'll really kind of go through, um, any kind of organization and just be like, you know, here are you, here are some cool

conversations that you could be having. And I think cause we're a lot of what we're talking about right now is systems, um, starting with even your own system, right? Like obviously it could be a family, but really like the place you work or the people you deal with. What are conversations that you could use some guidance in having? Yeah, I think that's awesome. Well, thanks for coming on, Rami. You're, you know, hands down one of the people who makes me laugh the most on the planet. And also, you're such an original, and I just can't wait to see what you do next. And keep me apprised of the bits as they're coming along

because I want to kick around more stuff. Oh, dude, thanks, man. Likewise, it's like the thing that's killing me the most is that we can't just be seeing it all the time in person, but I will. I know. I know. Awesome, man.

Working it out because it's not done. Working it out because there's no hope. And that's another episode of Working It Out. Rami Youssef. How about that, Rami Youssef? My God, is that fella talented. I feel like we

worked some stuff out. If you want to follow Rami, he is at Rami, R-A-M-Y on Instagram. He is a brilliant comic and he's going to make a great many things because he's very prolific

and just a really sweet person. Our producers of Working It Out are myself along with Peter Salamone and Joseph Birbiglia. Consulting producer Seth Barish. Sound mix by Kate Balinski. Assistant editor Mabel Lewis. Special thanks to my

consigliere Mike Berkowitz as well as Marissa Hurwitz. Special thanks to Jack Antonoff for our music. He has a new song out right now with Bruce Springsteen. Look out for that. I love that song. My daughter sings it all the time.

As always, a very special thanks to my wife, J-Hope Stein. Our book got translated into Slovakian this week. So that's a fun twist. The translation, by the way, is one is enough because you don't get to choose how they translate things. One is enough. And it is always that book is

in America it's called The New One. It's at your local bookstore. Support your local bookstore. Support your bicycle coffee. Support your spin drift. Support your merch table. As always a special thanks to my daughter Una who created this radio fort see you

at the virtual event this weekend for shows for bigs.com thanks most of all to you who have listened tell your friends tell your enemies tell your enemies we're working it out.

See you next time, everybody.