Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 26. All Jokes Considered: The Staff Picks The Best Of 2020

Episode Date: December 21, 2020

A comedy extravaganza featuring Sarah Cooper, Hasan Minhaj, Tig Notaro, Jimmy Kimmel, Maria Bamford, John Mulaney, Ira Glass, Jon Laster, David Sedaris, Pete Holmes, Jon Favreau & Tommy Vietor, Jacqueline Novak, Bowen Yang, & Natasha Lyonne. The perfect episode to share with friends or enemies who haven’t dipped their toes in the Working It Out waters. We are highlighting 6 food banks and Mike is donating 100% of the New Years Eve 6:30 virtual show proceeds to them. https://linktr.ee/WorkingItOutPod

Obviously, it's been a very crazy year, and we started the show in May. The first episodes aired in the beginning of June. And I feel like, how did we get to 24, 25 episodes, 25 hours? How did this happen? And it actually makes me feel good because it kind of casts the year in a more positive light for me. Peter, I don't know what you mean about 2020. I feel like everyone has a really good sense that it's been a great year.

Nothing's been weird about it. And like, it's just sort of been business as usual. It's totally business as usual. I'm sitting in a closet in an attic. So that was the voice of our fellow producer Peter Salamone. I'm Mike Birbiglia, here with our final episode of Working It Out

for 2020 with my fellow producer, Joseph Birbiglia. Hey, Joe. Hey. Hey, Mike. Great to be here. We, of course, are not in the same room, but it's a unique situation where today we have the entire staff of Working It Out

talking about the experience of working on the podcast this year and then just sharing our favorite clips. What a year it's been. It's been quite a year. So this, just to bring people up to speed, this whole thing started in March. The virus? When, oh, has there been a virus?

This is all new to me. No, it started, the Working It Out podcast came out of this idea of comedy clubs were closed and gatherings and shows are closed. And I was actually on the phone with Roy Wood Jr. and John Mulaney and some other comedians. And we said, like, how could we help support comedy clubs? So I started doing these Instagram live things we that we call tip your weight staff and uh and and then and then what happened was is it was me and a comedian working out material uh and then people contributed on tip your weight staff.com we built a website we raised a bunch of money for comedy club weight staffs and at a certain point people kept saying like uh i miss this where can i find it

yes the instagram platform is maybe not ideal for publishing stuff like that long term right and so what we were so we were like okay well now what do we do maybe what maybe we'll just make a podcast and we could professionally record this yeah and and mix it and so then we we enlisted the help of producer Peter Salamone, sound engineer Kate Balinski, another producer, Seth Barish, who's directed my shows, assistant editor Mabel Lewis. And so what we thought was that today we would invite on the whole production staff of the show

to share what everyone's favorite moments were from the podcast. We've had so many exciting people on the show. We've had Hannah Gadsby. We've had Roy Wood Jr., Ira Glass. One of my favorites was one of the first ones we recorded with John Mulaney. The other day I was like, it's probably hard to have an affair during the quarantine. Like, it's not a great time for affairs. Yeah, either they're done or they're thriving in secretive ways.

That's right. And then I had like, my tag for it was like, you know, like Cuomo in his daily briefing is just going to be like, you know, we're trying to get affairs back up and running. We should have affairs by July. My daughter said, why can't people sneak around? Why can't people see Reguimar? Who's going to get the PPE and the ventilators?

And I can't do how he says ventilators, but I will try for the whole quarantine. Ventilators. It has multiple moves. I picture someone skateboarding in an empty pool when he says it. It just has like multiple moves I picture like someone skateboarding in an empty pool

when he says it it just has a lot of vocal shift a lot of people are asking me there's no PPE people can't see their gumas people are asking me when can I have an affair and we don't know right now an affair? And we don't know right now.

And the answer is, we don't know. And if you want to blame someone, blame me. I love that. That was a very eventful thing and a real progression, actually. It's a real working it out moment because in June, actually. It's a real working it out moment because in June, Melania and I worked out that Cuomo bit. And then in the fall, he was the host of Saturday Night Live and did a more formed version of that in his monologue. So that was a big moment for working it out. I'm going to introduce into the conversation our sound engineer, Kate Balinski. Kate, we've worked with on the old ones. She's worked on

Serial. She's done so much brilliant work. Kate, did you have a favorite moment or a favorite episode this year? Yeah, it's actually one of the more recent ones. I loved your conversation with Natasha Lyonne. I think the first time I saw you in something was in Woody Allen's movie, Everyone Says I Love You. I think that's when I first saw you. You know, I was so young. I was like 15, 16 and playing his daughter and Goldie Hawn's daughter and like everybody and their mother was in that

movie like yeah yeah i actually love i actually love them i love that movie yeah i'll never forget though my mom leaning over to me at the end of the movie at the end of the premiere she leaned over and she said not his best huh oh my god oh my god that's honestly the only review i remember the movie every time the movie comes up, I'm instantly ashamed because I can just remember my mother saying, not his best. So I'm like, I guess it was, I ruined the movie. Like that was, I think.

That was one of my favorite episodes of all time. It was actually, I mean, that clip we played is so absurd, but actually it was a really profound episode. I thought she had a lot of really deep things to say. It's one of the darkest episodes. It's definitely serious and you talk a lot about death, but it's also totally silly and absurd. Yes. Yes, entirely. In the absurd category, I know that Kate and I both love the David Sedaris episode. I just got back from North Carolina.

And so I was trying, usually when I go to the beach house, I try to write an essay about the beach house. Like what went on at the beach? What's the story of the beach house now? Sure. Because there's always a story there, but it was just Hugh and I, and then my sister Gretchen came down.

But anyway, when I was there, it was just the story seemed to be nature. And I kept finding all of these turtles. So I kind of found a baby snapping turtle kind of marching furiously toward the grocery store. Like it was going to fly or everybody who worked there. And it was just, and you know how they always look so angry too.

And so I brought it to the creek to let it go. And there was a guy, a young woman with one leg, and a guy there, standing there. And he turned the turtle upside down, and he said, see, it's a female. You can tell by the shape of the shell right there. And so I reluctantly let it go, but I was thinking about all the kids who I know. You don't want to give it to like a five-year-old, but like a 12-year-old would be a good custodian for a snapping turtle. Because they can bite your finger off. But I thought, if I kept the snapping turtle, I kept thinking, what would I name it? Mary Catherine. Don't you think that would be a good name?

Sure, that's a good snapping turtle name. Such a good name for a snap. It would just change your attitude towards it completely if you named it Mary Catherine. I mean, yeah, from there it goes into a much deeper conversation about finding stories in the real world and not always being on your smartphone, which I also think is a beautiful part of the conversation. But there's something that makes me really happy to know that David Sedaris runs around giving little kids turtles. Yeah, I love that episode. And I learned so much from him. He actually gave me some ideas for some lines about the YMCA pool. And yeah, so that was one of the best for sure. Peter Salamone, to the listeners, is one of our producers. He's worked with our production company for many years. And Peter, did you have a favorite episode that you wanted to mention?

On the Jimmy Kimmel episode, you discuss in depth with Jimmy a story that you talked about on his show and everything, but you really get in depth about the time that you dropped a tray of meatballs on his front steps after a dinner party. Yes. So when I make dinner and you've been to my house for dinner. Yeah. Yeah. What happens at the end, I always make too much food. It's just a thing, always. And by the way, I really like when I saw your last name and, okay, we're both Italian. I feel like Sebastian Maniscalco compared to you, Italian-wise. Yes, you're heavy Italian. But anyway, so at the end of the meal, which I will almost always do, I will say, do you

want to take any of this home? Because I know I almost never eat leftovers cause I've been cooking it all day. I'm sick of it by the time it it's, uh, you know, and you said, yes, I would like to take this home. And I will just say that I appreciate that. We don't go through the whole, like, uh, you know, even if you're going to throw it out or in the, in the case of when you were here at my house, accidentally drop it on the ground as you leave,

which I still have the video of you cleaning it all up from my security video. I had dinner. Jimmy made us dinner, which was really nice. And then I took meatballs in a box to go and I dropped them essentially on their front gate. And then like I'd like grab them and like stuffed them in the box.

It's a very funny video. I happen to have a security camera out front of the house. And instantly that's what I went to. And then it led to this moment that I never thought would happen, which is that Jimmy Kimmel sent us the security camera footage. Of me spilling meatballs on his front steps.

Wait, I didn't get to see this. Yeah, no, this is all social media, Kate. Oh, I have to send you a link. This is not audio stuff, Kate. This is not, like, stay in your lane. And speaking of audio, there was no audio on the security cam footage, so we decided to put That's Amore underneath it. Yes.

That's a solid choice. So that was real. I had heard about this, and I never thought that we'd actually see the footage, and then we did, and it happened because of the podcast. So that was one of my favorite moments. And then we did, and it happened because of the podcast. So that was one of my favorite moments. And you know what's funny?

I love about that episode is that Jimmy came on. He and I were texting, and he said, I listened to all the episodes. You know, and I was like, do you want to come on? He was like, sure. And I mean, because he was driving across the country in a Winnebago with his family, and he needed to stay awake. And so we saved, as he pointed out, we saved his life. Yeah, that was a good story. Which infuriated Breitbart.

Breitbart really wanted him dead. Well, the least he could do is come on the podcast after that. We saved his life. Meanwhile, Breitbart wanted him dead because he wants children to have health care. What we're saying is we're frontline workers. Or as John Mulaney puts it, comedians are last responders. By the way, for the listeners, that's the voice of Mabel Lewis.

Mabel is an assistant editor on the show. She's the youngest member of the staff. She's in college at University of Chicago. And Mabel, did you have a favorite moment from the podcast this year? I was going to say that the Pete Holmes episode, I think, is one where if you just want to listen to jokes back to back to back for like an hour, that is such a good one to listen to. I didn't think I was gaining weight during COVID until I was watching. Whenever I watch a video I shoot of my wife and my daughter, I can always hear my breathing like.

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I'm like, where did I shoot this? Lurking in the bushes? Oh, my God, that's good. I love it. It's ready to go. And it'll be funnier with a microphone.

But it's not 100% true. It's 100% vulnerable, vulnerable. Here's one. It's like, if they're on flat ground, how am I running up a hill? I will write that down. Video breathing is the name on the bit. I love that bit. It's so funny.

If they're on flat ground, how am I uphill is this a david blaine trick uphill hilarious that's one of my favorite things about the uh that's one of my favorite things about the podcast is that it's a genuine exchange of ideas and tags and and like places that the jokes could go and like i think the reason I love the Pete Holmes episode is that he and I are both from an improv background. And so it's like, I'll take your idea and I'll add this to it. And I'll take that idea and then I'll add this to it.

Next thing you know, you've created a thing that didn't exist before. And that's why I love Pete because he has this yes and spirit that's just like unstoppable. And he seemingly has an endless well of energy. And Seth, I know that you really liked that episode, too, partly in relation to the next show. Because Seth Barish, we haven't introduced, is a consulting producer on Working It Out.

He and I have been working together also for about 15 years. He's directed all of my solo shows on and off Broadway. We've made two movies together. And Seth, you were saying something that you really liked about that episode. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. On that episode, you had this really funny run about Catholicism, and Pete immediately schooled you on that stuff because he has a religious background. And he just kind of gave you the facts, the background facts, that you become sort of stale,

that the whole thing becomes sort of dry. But it is nice, even if you're embellishing what the facts are, or you're embellishing what the real thing is about Jesus, that you know what it is you're embellishing and understand it better. Yeah. I know facts come up actually in a bunch of episodes. I know for sure in the Sarah Cooper episode, you have a fairly long conversation

about facts in the era of Trump and how difficult it is to make setups. I feel like satire in the age of Trump, for me, has been dead. Because whenever people ask me in interviews about what do you think of, isn't Trump great for comedy? And I'm always like, no, he's terrible. He's terrible. Because he challenges truth and the existence of truth. And truth is usually the setup for a joke.

And if there's no truth, there can be no setups. And so if there's no setups, there can be no punchlines. And that's sort of my take on political comedy in this era. But somehow you have defied that. Yeah. It's kind of like with observational humor, like you're pointing out things that everybody sees but but nobody says you're just, you know, bringing things to light. And I think for the first three and a half years of this, everyone was trying to add

to Trump, you know, they were trying to like, how can I get as, you know, how can I take what he does and like add something to make it even crazier or whatever. And then I just went in the other direction. I just went, I took everything away, you know, And I, and I think that's why it kind of is different and, and new is because I really wasn't, I'm not wearing a tie. I don't have a, I'm not people, I'm not painting my face orange. I'm not doing any of that stuff. Yeah. That's what it is. And I think like, it's of the same DNA as when Tina Fey did Sarah Palin. Right. Exactly. And she was using her exact words.

And so even even if like you like Sarah Palin, you're still going like it's pretty funny that she's saying her exact words. Right. And it's sad, too. And I do get that, that it's it's, you know know, because it, I, I do feel a sense of like, wait a second, I'm a writer and I'm not writing anything, you know, like I, I feel like he's almost taken away. Like it's great. Trump is great for comedy. No, like he's awful because he's taken away my, what I was supposed to be doing. You know, the thing that worked for me was not writing because he, because he is the

punchline, you know, he is the punchline. You know, he's already done it. I don't have to do anything else. And so it is sad because he's not supposed to be the punchline. He's supposed to be the president. There was a clip on the Jacqueline Novak episode that kind of blew my mind where you guys got into the details of the structure of jokes. And you talked specifically about, you know, the creation of the structure of jokes. And you talked specifically about the creation of the punchline and tags, but it was the minutiae of what the tag is and actually how it works from

a process standpoint, what it represents to the audience and all this stuff. The setup is the thing that's true. The punchline is the thing that's like the right turn that you don't see coming, but it's surprising, surprising but inevitable and often that's just what a joke is i was an altar boy as a kid and the answer is no i wasn't i think because they knew i was a talker you know and then the tag is like if you think he's this bad at lighting candles that's the tag but that's like an example of like set up punch. And then a lot of times tags are like the lines that are after that, that build out the metaphor of the whole thing. Yeah.

It's like, um, well, the classic, can I just, I know I've, we've said this before, but the classic,

you know, cause you always have encouraged me like to add tags. I feel like you're huge on like seeing where comedians are. I'm just, I'm obsessed with leaving money. Yeah. I'm obsessed with money. Yeah. And you, you've said to me, like you're leaving money on the table. That's how you refer to it by not having tags or leaving money on the table. You always said like, you've done the hard work. You did the really hard work, which was the original swerve from, you know, the setup to the punchline. That's the hardest part. Right.

And, and then the tags in theory are easy. And the tag oftentimes is what allows people who didn't get the punchline, it gives them time to enter the metaphor with the rest of the audience. Yes. It's not the punchline as one brief sliver appears that you can slip through once. And if you're no, that's huge. And, but then every now and then,

every now and then, like in your show and get on your knees, like a lot of times you'll have, you'll have tags where I'm like, you were saying this about the cancer joke. He's like, you're enjoying the tags in some ways more than the punchline, which is my experience of jokes.

A lot of times too. Jacqueline is as big of a nerd of comedy as you'll encounter. I was talking to John Mulaney recently about Jacqueline because the three of us are all old friends. And he said this thing about Jacqueline that was so insightful. He goes like,

said this thing about Jacqueline that was so insightful. He goes like, it's like, it's like someone who has like the mind of like a poet who studied the joke structure of Dave Attell. And I thought that that was like such an interesting way of putting it that like, she really is a student of like set up, punch, tag that was, like, such an interesting way of putting it, that, like, she really is a student of, like, set-up, punch, tag, tag, tag, which is a real, like, Dave Attell is, like, a real comics comic. I'm going to hand the baton back to Joe.

Joe, did you have any other favorite episodes this year? Yeah, I had a couple. Particularly, I really took to Bo and Yang's story about his father sending him to conversion, gay conversion school. You had a really good conversation about it and I recall that you

suggested that perhaps he would want to make that into some sort of film or represent it some way. You could tell he was still processing it, but I don't know, it was just, it was a real interesting story. I was reading about your background of like, that your folks at one point tried to send you to like gay conversion therapy. Oh yeah, they did, they did. They tried and succeeded.

Right. How many did you go for? It was just eight weeks. I got pretty lucky. I got like... By the way, you saying just eight weeks is... It's basically a horror movie. I know, I know.

But it was... It started out... It's the way they lull you into cults, I feel. It started out feeling like, oh, this just feels like talk therapy. Right. Where like with NXIVM, it just feels like, oh, this just feels like talk therapy. Right. Where like with NXIVM, it just feels like, oh, this is just like a self-improvement seminar.

Right. And then they sort of then they coax you into all this other stuff, like at the midway point. So that's what that sort of track was. But you didn't come away from it being like, I'm not gay. Right.

Deep down, I knew that I was still gay, but then it was so weirdly timed where my parents gave me this ultimatum where if I could go to NYU and be with my sister, I could go to the gayest undergrad in the country. So this is from Colorado you were living in? Yes, correct. So this is going from Colorado to NYU.

So my options were between NYU and UCLA, but my parents favored NYU because my sister was there. And she could sort of chaperone me, as it were. And that was not a fun position for her to be in either. But anyway, so the condition was that I was able to go to NYU if I did these eight weeks of conversion therapy. Oh my gosh. So I came away from it thinking,

I'm still probably gay, but let me just, I might as well reinvent myself the way that everybody does when they go to undergrad. Sure. If they go to a place that doesn't have a lot of their high school friends going to. It was your great Gatsby, of course. Yes, yes, yes.

And then truly gave it like an earnest go for a year where I did feel like I fell in love with a girl. You could call that, by the way, the un-gay Gatsby. The un-gay Gatsby.

And then the cover is two eyes and Warby Parker glasses? The un-gay Gatsby. The un-gay Gatsby. And then the cover is... Two eyes and, like, Warby Parker glasses? Yeah, that's what it is. I like that. That was one of the episodes where I was like, oh, I really feel like Bowen and I will be friends. Or at least do some more charity shows or together the other one i would i would mention

what i found in going back over a lot of the episodes is that they covered so many so much ground and like things that they dealt with and they evoked the episode with tommy vitor and john favreau from pod save america i thought really it was one of those episodes that really went in a different direction. I mean, obviously, they're not comedians. And just you talk to them about career advice that they had received and that they had lived by, I thought was quite poignant. What's the best advice anyone's ever given you

that actually worked? I think I was told to always focus on what you want to do and not what you want to be yeah um and and think about the work that you like and not like the title you want or the job that you want and i've always thought that's incredibly good advice especially because you know i when i jumped on the carry campaign out of college, I was like, you know, paid $20,000 a year, lived in a gross apartment, um, just basically broke. But I knew that I really wanted to do politics. I thought it was going to be cool. So I tried it and I didn't, you know, it wasn't law school, which my parents had envisioned for me. And I didn't never ended

up taking the LSATs, but I'm, you know, it, it sort of set the course for the rest of my life. Yeah, I really love that one. And you can also feel, I don't know, I like that one because you can feel the passion of how strongly they felt about all these issues that were timely with the election. And then I thought they were also really funny for not being comedians, I will say. They're super funny. And also what was funny in re-listening to that one is that was prior to the election.

And you could tell the trepidation and nervousness they had going into the election about the result. I mean, I'm not sure of even what the result is yet, Joe. So I'm not... Let's not get ahead of ourselves um one of my favorite episodes was the john laster episode i i felt like it was giving people a fly on the wall like uh like listening to what it's like to hear two comedians just literally shoot the shit. Because I spend so much time talking to John when things were, you know, normal at the Comedy Cellar. We talk for hours.

And I would say, like, that conversation is so close to what our conversations are like. Like, there's no affect to it. Yeah, you know what's really sad, Mike? This is, this Mike? This is... Yeah, this is... You know, you my guy, so I can tell you, right? I went into the bodega, right? Last night.

I don't like where this is going. I go to the bodega last night.'ve been doing i've been doing a good job though right yeah just to give a little background to the listeners john revealed to me uh about six months ago how many honey buns he eats on a regular basis and i i i would say pretty close to shouted at you at the Comedy Cellar. Oh, yeah. That's where we're friends. We're friends from the Comedy Cellar.

We do a lot of shows together over the years, and that's how we've become friends. But when you revealed to me, basically you revealed to me that at a certain point, you were eating 10 plus honey buns a day yeah like eight yeah eight or eight yeah eight or nine let that sink in to the listeners how many honey buns i'll just put it in perspective i eat no honey buns per day i mean if i were to go on a honey buns bender, I'd eat two honey buns.

Oh, yeah. You were eating eight. Eight honey buns a day. Yo, it's the truth. So then John and I sort of had it out about honey buns. That was probably six months ago. And you scared the life out of me. You scared me into not eating honey buns.

Yeah, because I was like, you're going to die. Yeah. You're straight up going to die from honey buns. You're going to die. You're just going to tip over on stage from honey buniosis. I encourage people to check that one out because there's a lot of great jokes. There's a lot of wild stories.

And then there's a lot of very eye-opening stuff. He tells a story about trying to get an apartment. And it's a crazy story and a very, you know, informative story because getting an apartment in New York is very hard. and have to prove your income that way is really hard. And then being black on top of it, as you can hear from John's story, is insanely hard. And obviously it is infuriating to listen to. And just his saga of trying to get approved to rent an apartment.

And he's an established New York comedian. It is so eye-opening and upsetting, very informative. The other episode that I love is the Maria Bamford episode. And I couldn't recommend an episode more highly to people. She is probably my favorite comedian. And I have so many. I love comedy. Because she just really goes there.

I mean, she just has no fear talking about things that she struggles with and mental health issues she struggles with that are really extreme. And I found that to be a completely inspiring episode in terms of me not pulling any punches with my own writing. You do virtual shows, which I think are amazing.

And I saw that you told this story about how you and your husband have sort of a pact if either one of you is ever considering suicide, which you have before. And it's a very serious thing. Yes. suicide which you have before and it's it's a very serious thing yes um that if you or your husband are considering that that you have to post about it in the shared community area in your apartment yes it's on the um refrigerator in chip clip magnets oh my gosh because one thing that we realized in in probably the reason we attracted to each other, my husband, he would always kind of joke.

Like if I said I was feeling low or just feeling bad, you know, he'd kind of go, he'd go, I'm depressed too. Which is hilarious. Me too. I don't feel good either.

And then, which is so sweet. And then we both also started, it's another relaxant, fantasize about death, long for the afterlife. It's called suicidal ideation. I think many people have done it. So that's something we didn't realize we both have in common as something to kind of calm down in situations to either. Yeah.

So both of us were having a bad day. And I thought to ask a little later, hey, what were you thinking about? And he's like, what were you thinking about? Uh-oh. He was thinking about his plans. I was thinking about? And he's like, what were you thinking about? Uh-oh. Um, he was thinking about his plans. I was thinking about my plans and, you know, of course it's, it's funny, but it's also, and I think that that's what I, I want to talk about that stuff is so that we don't feel, or I'll speak for myself. sorry. Uh, I don't feel ashamed, um, that that's, um, yeah, we have these two signed, uh, contracts that our therapist had us write up of what we can do

if someone's in danger or feeling impulsive. Um, and again, paperwork has never saved a life. Uh, but what. But what if? Sure, sure. But they signed something. It's been notarized. I have a memory about that Maria Bamford episode, which is indicative of the podcast process in the age of COVID,

which is we've experienced, you know, a myriad of technical issues and Kate is really adept at working through those. But it was really special for me too. I love that episode too. She's definitely, you know, one of the funniest people ever. And I was buying dog food in a pet store and I got a call on my cell phone from Maria Bamford

and she just needed some help troubleshooting something on her computer in preparation for the recording. And it was just a very surreal moment, like thinking back to the first time I saw Maria Bamford in the Comedians of Comedy documentary and I never thought that many years later I'd be in a pet store sort of like walking back and forth

in hushed tones in the aisle helping Maria Bamford install some audio software on her laptop. I think the point is the staff of working it out are just, we're real star fuckers. Mabel, did you have another one? Yeah, I was going to talk about the Tig Notaro episode where you guys have this great run about Kiss and Indigo Girls that is really just a magical riff where you're building on each other. And it's so much fun.

I love this episode so much. I don't know if we can even properly ramp into this and have people understand it. But basically, Tig, it's a very serious story. She talks about having this medical emergency at her own show where she passes out and she's being carried out of theater. And earlier in the episode, I guess this is all the people need to know, we have referenced that she likes the band Kiss as well as the band Indigo Girls. And also, I have on multiple occasions gone to an Ani DiFranco concert alone. occasions gone to an Anita Franco concert alone.

And a security guy had to pick me up and put me in a car and there were still people from the show in front of the theater watching. Oh my gosh. Huge man carried me out

and put me in a car and Stephanie drove me to the hospital around the corner. That's like if you went to an Indigo Girls show, and afterwards, one of the Indigo Girls was being taken away in an ambulance. No, it's like if you went to an Indigo Girls show, and both Indigo Girls are being carried out after the show.

No, Kig. It's like if you went to an Indigo Girls are being carried out after the show. No, Tig. It's like if you went to an Indigo Girls concert and after the show, one of the Indigo Girls is being flown away in a helicopter and one of them is being driven away on the back of a motorcycle. No, no,

no. It's like if you went to an Indigo Girls concert and Kiss is being carried out of the theater. No, it's like if you went to an Indigo Girls concert and Mike Birbiglia has to leave early because Ani DiFranco is performing across town at 930. Okay, it is exactly like that. Okay, good. That's the perfect example. Yeah, one of the things that probably made me laugh harder than anything we've recorded

because when Tig is in the zone of a bit, because she's always, she's interesting because she's, first of all, she's very intimidating to me and I've known her for a long time I mean at least 10 years she's completely sincere at all times and completely willing to go down the rabbit hole of a joke at all times

and so the combination of those two things you really have to be on your game. So for this final episode of the year, we decided instead of having a typical ad, I was just going to talk to the founders of a company that I really admire. The founders of Bomba's Socks, Randy Goldberg and David Heath. Thanks for having us. Thanks for having us. Mamba's Socks, Randy Goldberg and David Heath. Thanks for having us. Thanks for having us. It's such a simple premise, which is for every pair of socks you sell,

you give a pair to a homeless shelter, and you've given away, at this point there's a running tally on your site, 43 million pairs of socks. The moment I heard that, I was like, okay, definitely I'll try it. And then I got the socks and I was like, I love these socks. These are the socks for the rest of my life. I mean, it was so simple, literally so simple. Have you ever been told along the way, you cannot do this idea and you just go, no, fuck it, we're going to do it? Yeah.

I mean, how many times have we been told that, Dave? I mean, I don't know. I mean, we were told that on national television. I mean, we were on Shark Tank and Mr. Wonderful was like, you're giving away half your profits. How could you possibly scale and endure over a long period of time? And I think the easy argument was the reason that we've scaled and endured is because we give half of what we do away. I mean, look, it's the reason we we've scaled and endured is because we give, you know, half of what we do away. I mean, it is it look, it's the reason we're talking to you. I mean, you wouldn't have picked up the phone to reach out to us if we were just like a random sock company.

I didn't realize I cared about socks until I found you guys. And now I'm all in on socks. You mentioned like the art of it and the fact that it's such a simple idea. And that's the key, right? I mean, like any good script or a good business, too, you have to make it simple and powerful enough for other people to tell your story on your behalf. And this is, of course, a perfect tie-in to the holiday season and giving back. If you go to bombas.com slash berbigs, you get 20% off your first order. Bombas.com slash berbigs, you get 20% off your first order.

Bombas.com slash berbigs. Randy and David, thanks for joining me. Thank you. Thanks for having us. Peter, did you have something about the show that was the podcast? Because we've made it, what, you know, 25 episodes. Was there anything surprising or exciting particularly about making the show that was the podcast? Because we've made it, what, you know, 25 episodes. Was there anything surprising or exciting, particularly about making the show?

Oh, I just have a very quick one because the last episode we released before this was the return of Ira Glass. And it sort of brought everything full circle from when Ira was on the first time, giving you notes on a story that you then revised. And it's, you know, really maybe the most clear illustration of the working it out premise. I wanted to bring it up just because my mother-in-law is a huge fan of the podcast and a

huge fan of Mike and is very protective of Mike because I told her that Ira Glass is coming back. And she said, she said, oh, I think I'll skip that one because I don't like when Ira criticizes Mike. Oh my God. In closing, how close to being a story for this American life is this story? Halfway there. Halfway there? Oh my gosh.

That's an awful estimate. The margins are terrible on that. Well, no, we just got a structure, but now there's like jokes to fix and... Do you know what I mean? Yeah, all the work that has to be done. There's digressions to... I feel like you can have certain digressions but you can't have all of them like either you do sure the goose down thing or you don't do the golf thing sure

sure all that's that's that's the machining of it and they're great and by the way they're great notes i mean i would say like seth and ira have both been different types of what in, in theater people call dramaturgs, which is to say that they're, they're drawing the story or the play out from the writer and then helping to sort of guide the sculpting process of the show. And I, and, and Seth and Ira have very different approaches to dramaturgy.

But they complement one another. Seth, you might want to speak to that. Yeah, no, it's true. It's true. And I also have enjoyed working with Ira over the years. And we do have a different approach. My approach, I would describe it as you'll say something or share something. And I'll mirror back, well, what I get from that is fill in the blank. And then we're able to kind of check in and go

is that what you intend? Do you want it to be something else? What could we do from then? Or what could you do if you want to or not? And I would say I don't know, how would you describe Ira's approach? Ira's approach is that he takes a hammer and he smashes it into my face repeatedly. Yeah. I was going to say quite those words. I was going to say something like Ira goes, no, no, no, that's not going to work. I mean, Ira is, first of all, he's a genius.

Definitely. He's probably possibly the smartest person I've ever met. And I've met a lot of smart people. I've been very lucky to meet a lot of smarties. like um very immediately formative because he's from a a weekly radio deadline background i mean they've made they've made hundreds and hundreds of of episodes of this american life and he you know he's won a pulitzer and a peabody i mean. And they're on deadline all the time. And so when you talk to Ira, he does not want to have the conversation

be one of 100 conversations about a story. He wants to fix your story and he wants to fix it now before you get off the phone. I think it was Ira Glass who coined the term, fuck your feelings. Yes, that's right. Of course, that was famously Ira Glass.

No, it wasn't. For the fact checkers at home, that is not Ira Glass. Seth would never say that. Seth would never say that. Very much Ira's credit. I should point out that he'll often say things and then he'll immediately on the heels of it go, you know, but I don't know, maybe. And he leaves room for and acknowledges the fact that whatever he's positing is not the be all and end all. It's

just there to prompt the conversation and the process. And it's actually a really wonderful way of working, I think. I think I would be remiss in discussing some of the surprises of the podcast if we forget to talk about free samples and things you get sent by the sponsors. Oh, yes, can we? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm now paid in mattresses and me undies.

I got, I got a basement fridge full of spin drift and the Sam Adams alcohol representative dropped off a truckload of products at my house and filled my basement fridge. Oh my God. And that is why Joe is in the podcast business. We can trade these, We can trade these goods and services for money. I believe, Joe, it was at Sundance when I saw you

at one of the bars up above the place with this brand new coat and you were like, and I was like, where did you get that? You go like, downstairs. Just walk in. They just give it to you. And then you got one of those coats, Seth, and I saw you've been wearing it ever since. I did. I still have that coat.

It's from 2012. This is a saga coat. It lasts a long time. I think we need a quick survey from Mabel on her favorite Magic Spoon flavors because Mabel's obsession with Magic Spoon cereal is very real. Mabel, how do you rank?

I would say Frosted is my favorite. Frosted is absolutely my favorite. And then I would say Coco would be my second favorite. Totally. And I will share an anecdote, which is one time your daughter, Mike, asked me for some cocoa magic spoon, and there was so few left

that I just, I literally gave her a handful and ate the rest myself. You were a monster. You were a monster. One of my favorite moments is the Matt Berninger, Corinne Besser, J-Hope Stein episode, partly because Jen reads a poem called The Machine that I love,

and then partly because Matt Berninger is the front person for The National, my favorite band on the planet. And so to have an excuse to have a candid discussion about marriage and collaboration with Matt and Corinne and Jen is like, I mean, it's a dream come true. Sometimes I like to feel, I know I'm always kidding myself, but sometimes I like to feel that I have stayed so much away that my opinion then holds great weight. It never really works like that.

That sounds familiar. You know, like the value. And I also like to do the thing of the like, here's just my gut reaction, which is always kind of. She does wait. And she did. You know, if there's something she wants me to change, she will. She'll wait and find a way that there's no way I cannot. Like she'll. I'm trying to think of an example.

I probably learned this technique. Where she'll just say, I don't know. You know that you just the way you're saying that line makes me just picture you in like in like beige shorts and like something like that so one of the reasons i love that matt and corinne and and jen episode is that it it's really candid and frank and raw about marriage and collaboration and then also jen shares an original poem And then also Jen shares an original poem and Corinne shares an original poem. It feels unique from all the other episodes.

It's really unique hearing a bunch of artists who live together talk about how they work. I wear beige shorts. How dare you? I can't believe you admitted that. I've got four different pairs I've got pleats, I've got flat front

so so I have to mention this one the Hasan Minhaj episode I always recommend to people because in some ways it's like the most real time joke creation working it out

that happens in the whole season, which is that he works out this story about going on a trip with his wife. So basically, nobody was staying at the inn. So it was just us and one other couple. And we're sitting there at breakfast. This other couple is maybe four tables away. And this girl is having a full-on

argument with the guy she goes and i remember this i remember this as clearly as like hickey jim she goes yeah really you're gonna tell your mom i'm just your friend oh my god yeah so they were at a they were at a wedding the night before, and he introduces said girl as, hey, mom, this is my quote-unquote friend. And I'm staring. I'm full-on staring. I'm watching them having a full-on fight. And I cannot tell you how happy I was

to watch another couple fight. Yeah, sure. Why do I feel this way, Mike? Why do I get such joy watching other people's lives fall apart? Well, it's schadenfreude, which is the joy from other people's pain. Okay. That's part of it.

And then I think it's the relatability of that you and Bina have conflicts. And sometimes you secretly probably think it's just you two. Yes, but there's this joy of like, I reveled in it because I was like, hey babe, look, that guy is worse than me. The final segment is always working it out for a cause. And I thought, why don't we donate to food banks in each of our respective either hometowns or where we're living right now? And for my part, I'm going to give to City Harvest in New York City.

Yeah, absolutely. to City Harvest in New York City. Yeah, absolutely. I'll be donating to the Rhode Island Community Food Bank, which is very active in the Providence and in the entire state of Rhode Island. And I've been contributing to Food Issues Group, and they created a frontline community food relief program in response to COVID-19 in New York City. And they provide meals and groceries to underserved communities, but they also provide support to independent food businesses who can be the engines of those efforts, but are also struggling themselves in this crisis. And you can find them at foodissuesgroup.org. Yeah, and I grew up in Northern California, and there's an organization out there called the California Association of Food Banks, and they're doing great work. And I am from South Florida,

and I just wanted to highlight an organization called Feeding South Florida. They're one of the largest food banks in southeastern Florida, serving Fort Lauderdale, Miami, and beyond. And there was just an article the other day in the Sun Sentinel newspaper about how they are close to running out of food

because it's obviously a very busy time of year. So you can find them at feedingsouthflorida.org. They could really use the help. I'm currently in Hyde Park, Chicago, and there is Union Church, which is two blocks away from me right now, is a great, great place that does a lot for the community in addition to distribute food. So I'll be donating there. Well, I'm going to contribute to all of those. As a matter of fact, what we're going to do is, you know, we have these Christmas and New Year's Eve

working it out virtually shows. You can get tickets at burbiggs.com. For the 6.30 p.m. Eastern Standard Time New Year's Eve show, I'm going to give 100% of the proceeds to those six awesome organizations. We're hoping to give thousands of dollars to those groups, and the links to all of those organizations will be in the show notes. I want to send a special thanks to my wife, the poet, J-Hope Stein. Our book, the new one is curbside.

My daughter, Una, who created this radio fort of pillows. As always, a special thanks to my consigliere, Mike Berkowitz, as well as Marissa Hurwitz and Josh Upfall. And of course, to Jack Antonoff. He created the music you're listening to right now in his free time when he wasn't producing his own Bleachers albums. That's the band he's the front man for, as well as writing songs on these two amazing Taylor Swift albums. He's always so generous with his time. He did a song for Tip Your Weight Staff.

He did the song for Working It Out. We so appreciate everything that Jack does. That's great. Yeah, and also one more person. I'm glad you mentioned Jack. It made me think of our art director, Adam Jeffers in Lawrence, Kansas, who did the artwork for the podcast. That's right.

Yeah, Adam is incredible. And thanks, everybody, Joe and Mabel and Kate and Peter and Seth for making, working it out, the show that it is. And thanks to the listeners for being a part of it. Tell your friends. Tell your enemies. Should we all say it together? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What is it again? As a group. As a group, maybe. One, two, three. Tell your friends. Tell your friends. Tell your enemies. We're working it out. That's going to need some work.

We're working it.