Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 3. Jon Laster: Lessons from Black Lives Matter. Also, Honey Buns.

Episode Date: June 15, 2020

Mike discusses Black Lives Matter and turning tragedy into comedy with Jon Laster.Please consider contributing to the following organizations:NAACP Legal Defense FundUnited Negro College Fund

Hey everybody, Mike Birbiglia here for the third episode of Working It Out that we're dropping today. This episode was based on my friend John Laster's Instagram post the other day. If you go to his Instagram page, which is at hewasfunny, or if you go on mine, I'm at birbigs, I reposted his, the photo is of a burning building in Minnesota, and the text next to it reads like this. This is what I felt like on the inside the first time cops put a gun to my head over, what are you doing over here? Made me lay in an oil stain when I begged them to let me lay on the sidewalk. I suppressed it and went home and cried. This is what I felt like on the inside when I almost got shot by cops in a parking lot

because they routinely stopped us and their flashlights made a seatbelt light up. I was terrified. Went home, suppressed it, and cried. This is what I felt like on the inside when they recently put their guns in my face and threw my bag in a sprinkler puddle and my ID on the ground through a fence at Pratt. I had to go on campus to get my ID back, suppressed it, and cried on my walk home feeling humiliated. This is what I felt like on the inside when I spent the night in jail after following three white girls in between a train car. Cops singled me out as the white girl screamed at him for it, and then they proceeded to their party as I spent the night in jail, missing my first meeting with a comedy hero of mine, Kenan Ivory Wayans. I have at least 40 or 50 of these stories, and I know black

men who have many more than me. A white friend of mine said to me that they sympathize with the protesters because George Floyd was the fuel for all of this. The years of abuse and disrespect are the fuel. George Floyd was the match. So, John, I was DMing with you the other night, which is how this conversation started, because you posted this thing on Instagram that was really emotional about, you know, what's going on right now with the cops and things that you've dealt with with cops over the years. And I was like, well, we should get on the podcast and talk about it. And then I thought back to our relationship over the years and I was like, well, but first,

we have to address honey buns. Don't you think that's important? Yeah, you know what's really sad, Mike? This is, this Mike? This is... Yeah, this is... You know, you're my guy, so I can tell you, right? I went into the bodega, right? Last night.

I don't like where this is going. I go to the bodega last night. I've been doing a good job though, right? Yeah. Just to give a little background to the listeners, John revealed to me about six months ago how many honey buns he eats on a regular basis. and I would say pretty close to shouted at you at the Comedy Cellar. Oh, yeah. That's where we're friends. We're friends from the Comedy Cellar. We do a lot of shows together over the years,

and that's how we've become friends. But when you revealed to me, basically you revealed to me that at a certain point you were eating eating 10 plus honey buns a day. Yeah, like eight. Yeah, eight or nine. Yeah, eight or nine. Let that sink in to the listeners. How many honey buns?

I'll just put it in perspective. I eat no honey buns per day. I mean, if I were to go on a honey buns bender, I'd eat two honey buns. Oh, yeah. You were eating eight. Eight honey buns a day. Yo, it's the truth. So then John and I sort of had it out about honey buns.

That was probably six months ago. And you scared the life out of me. You scared me into not eating honey buns. Yeah, because I was like, you're going to die. Yeah. You're straight up going to die from honey buns. You're going to die. You're just going to tip over on stage from honey buniosis.

It's like honey bun. I mean, what even are honey buns? I don't even think there's honey in honey buns. There's a lot of love in there, though. A lot of love. buns. There's a lot of love in there, though. A lot of love. Is it, what is the company that, is it Sarah Lee that makes honey buns? You know what? I eat a lot of Lady Linda honey buns. Okay. Yeah, they're a little better quality, you know.

You're lying to yourself, John. They're not better quality. I'm a top-shelf honey bun eater. And keep in mind, as we talk about honey buns, that this is... John is someone who played serious D1 college basketball, was close to going pro, and I would describe you as being in good shape. And he eats sometimes eight honey buns a day. I would describe me.

You know what? That's not true because I'm getting in better shape. I'm back, you know, since the pandemic, I'm back up to six miles a day. Yeah. Yeah. But the sad part is I actually, Mike, you'd have been proud at the beginning, I really was, the honey buns were going away. And I hadn't had any probably in almost a week. Yeah.

None. Like zero, though. That's great. You got to figure that's 40 less honey buns than I normally would have ate over the course of those days. That's shocking. Yeah. And then I go into the bodega and the bodega guys are standing there I swear to God this is what they say

Where have you been honey bun? Oh my god. They call you honey bun? My nickname is honey bun. That's outrageous. Where have you been honey bun? Where have you been? I was like, oh, fellas. What neighborhood are you in? I'm in Stuyvesant Heights in Brooklyn.

Stuyvesant Heights. You know, bougie people call it Stuyvesant Heights now. But yeah. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's whatever convenient naming is fitting for their selling of the thing. is fitting for their selling of the thing. You and I, I want to say, like,

when was it, like, a year ago when you were switching apartments? Oh. And you and I kept checking in because you're like, I can't find an apartment. Yeah. And this is racial. And this was actually very eye-opening for me is you were like,

it's hard as a black guy in New York to get an apartment. Yes, absolutely. I feel like at the time you were telling me that something to the effect of that when you're submitting paperwork for different apartments as a black man, you're less likely to get approved. Well, you know what's so funny, Mike, was the very first place I went was this old black lady, right? So I go to look at the room because I wasn't even looking at one bedrooms. I just wanted a ginormous room within an apartment. And she said to me, she said, let me tell you something, young man. Young man.

Yeah, this is exactly what she said. Let me tell you something, young man. Yeah, this is exactly what she said. Let me tell you something, young man. You are black. You're single. Bed-Stuy and Crown Heights are the hot neighborhoods. They are not going to rent to you. So if you like this room, if I were you, I would take it. I own the building, so I know the struggle that you're going to have trying to find a place.

You should take this room. And I'm thinking to myself, damn, to have trying to find a place. You should take this room. And I'm thinking to myself, damn, old lady, that's a terrible sales pitch. What type of sales pitch is that, lady? What are you talking about? And then, you know, I start looking. I start looking. It got so bad that the realtor guy that I had looking for me, one of the places they asked for, hey, we need your paperwork. It says you work at the cellar. Your credit score,

of course. And so he says, your credit score has got to be like, they're looking for 600. If it's a little lower, I can work with you. I said, man, my credit score is 720. He was like, oh, great. I'll get you the keys tomorrow. Then he was like, hey, man, they need a bank statement from you. Normally, we don't ask for that, but they just want to know that you have a month's rent in the bank. I get him a bank statement. He texts me, yo, dude, you have 10 months rent in the bank. Yeah, I'm good for the money. I'm doing okay out here. the bank. Yeah, I'm good for the money. I'm doing okay out here. So he says, oh, I'll get you the keys tomorrow. Then they needed a pay stub from the comedy seller. Then they needed a show by show. They needed- Wow. So the list just kept getting longer and longer. And then after that, they said no. Now, my realtor was upset because he was like, I just rented the room across the hall. He's telling me this to this white girl whose credit score is 100 points lower than yours. Wow. Let me tell you the good news, though. And her residency is in London, meaning if she decided not to pay the rent and left, their legal recourse was close to nothing.

Oh, my gosh. So he was like, I don't know why they're doing this to you, and they keep asking you for stuff. And then he said that they told him, well, could we just kind of find someone else? We just, you know, we're just not sure. And then so then. No. Yes. Can we just find someone else?

That's what they told him. And he's pulling his hair out. He says, hey, man, fuck that. Don't worry about it. I'll find you somewhere else. I already have all your paperwork. So we go the next place. I said, you know what?

Let me just get a one bedroom if I have to move further out. And we went through the same thing. He comes. He texts me one day. He said, I went in the office and told them what was going on with you. And he said, the white girls in the office were like, this is getting uncomfortable. Yeah, that's funny as hell. This is getting uncomfortable. And then all my white realtor friends are like, dude, you got to file. We got to fight this. I'm like, dude, I'm trying to find a place. Right.

Where you're just like, I just want to live somewhere. I just want to lay down, man. You know what I mean? Oh, my gosh. Is that so much to ask? And the crazy part is, so I'm going through this. I'm stressed out. And I put all of the stuff that these people had asked me for on my Instagram stories.

Yes. Yes. By the grace of these people had asked me for on my Instagram stories. Yes. Yes. By the grace of God, somebody hits me. My friend hits me who also happens to be a comedian. She said, John, I own a building. I have a tenant who's supposed to give us two months notice, but she told us Friday she's going to be gone by Sunday. Come look at the place. Maybe you like it, maybe you don't, but I thought you should at least look at it.

So I go over there. There's way more money than I wanted to spend. I come to the top of the steps. She happened to be black and she said, listen, you black. Let me tell you something. I said, bitch, give me them keys. I am sold. You do not have to tell me this again. I just want to lay down in peace tonight. And it was more money than I wanted to spend, but I was so grateful. You know what's so funny is both her and her wife are both, they're both black. So it wasn't like I found some resolution that I found some good white people that were like, yeah, we'll rent to them. I just happened to run into someone. And after she gave me the key, she said, they would not have rented to you.

That's crazy, man. You would still be looking. This search that you were on would not have ended. A lot of other places I was going, I was like, hey, I love the place. They were like, oh, great. Well, we'll get back to you. I think one of the strangest things about your story is that your real estate story, because I remember talking to you about this at length at the time I feel like I was living it with you week over week

at the Comedy Cell, I'd be like, how's it going? And you'd have like a new story I'd go, how's it going? You'd have a new story, it's a new apartment I'm looking at I had a new rejection And the white version of the story is, hey, I found an apartment. Meanwhile, a lot of my white friends were like, oh, yeah, I found a great place over on Diffinette. I mean, Jesus. And I just, what's crazy about your real estate story is it's not subtle. Oh, no, definitely not. I'll tell you what, the last place, what they told my realtor,

because obviously, because some of the first places that I had gone to had asked for so many things, right? That by the time I got to the last place, Mike, he had a mountain of my stuff, right? So instead of them asking me for a million different things, you know what they said? He's not a good fit. Oh my gosh. Yeah.

He's not a good fit. That's exactly what they told my room. Well, we just don't think he's a good fit. Can you be more specific, please? Yo, man. Meanwhile, I was just running to come see this because I'm desperate now. That's fucking crazy, man. And that's where, to me, that relates to why your Instagram post that I like reposted was so powerful because you go,

you know, you say, you know, this is what it felt like, you know, when cops held a gun to my head that, you know, this is what it felt like when, you know, I, I almost got shot by cops in a parking lot, et cetera. This is what I felt like. This is what I felt like shot by cops in a parking lot etc this is what I felt like this is what I felt like and it's almost like a the the structure is almost like a poem this is what it felt like this what it felt like this is what it felt like it's like a repetitive structure and and to me it's like when you're going through all this real estate stuff to me i go what it's like what does that make you feel like right and and you know what it makes you feel the same way you know what i mean and i and i

put the the like i said the the the instagram uh post that i recently posted and that thing is just going viral but the um but the the thing about that was just to try to help people understand that you and I could be looking at the same cop car rolling by thinking about thinking very different things. Yeah. Or looking for an apartment or going for a job. It's just, you know, we have very different experiences. And I'm not talking about some, I'm not some coke dealing, bank robbing. Do you know what I mean? So my experience with the cops as a regular dude have been very, very different.

Or I'm not a guy that's out here trying to scam to look for an apartment. I make good money. I work at the best comedy club in the world. My credit score is over 700. You know, there's plenty of money in my bank account. Why does it take me over two months to find a place to live in the neighborhood that I already live in? Yeah. And by the way, in the city that is theoretically progressive and liberal. Well, I'll submit to you Central Park.

Yeah. You don't have to formally submit around the podcast john yeah we're not taking we don't need to look at your forms or anything you can just thank you i appreciate that no actually i'm sorry john i just got word in my ear you've been rejected from this podcast this is not gonna air well it's just not a fit you're not a good you're not a good fit yeah but central park you're saying central park as an example yes central park as an example that even in the middle of new york city you know what i mean um that that that race racism is is alive and kicking. Oh, yeah.

You mean with the video from the other day? Yeah, with the video, yeah. I'm going to call them and tell them an African-American male, you know. Unbelievable. Yeah. It's like sometimes those are the people that you're, you know, you're showing your damn, you got the money in the bank and you got,

you know, I work at the cellar. Here's a pay stub, here's my credit score, here's my, and it's still a no. Still a no. By the way, in that video, if people don't know what we're talking about, it's a video where an African-American man is birding. Birding. He's out birding.

The nerdiest ass activity. I don't think I, it would take a lot for me to bird as a verb, John. That, it is the act of sort of observing birds. I don't think there's a more peaceful activity than birding. Yeah, first of all, I thought that was a better reason to call the cops on his punk ass. First of all, I thought that was a better reason to call the cops on his punk ass. Somebody come get this bitch ass dude out here birding. Yeah, yeah.

So the birding gentleman is mentioning to this woman. This is all caught on video. It's mentioning this woman. Hey, could you keep your dog on a leash, which is the rule anyway? Yeah, because apparently those dogs have chased and killed some of these birds. That's right. So they want to protect that area. And then she got really upset and picked up her phone and threatened to call the police and say. African-American man is threatening me. Yeah, she went full Karen out there, yo. I mean, holy shit.

Yeah. And then she starts screaming and, you know, acting like, oh, my God, I'm scared. As she walks away, he's like, you know, just do what you're going to do, lady. But it's crazy, John, because it's like you see videos like that. You see, you know, obviously the phenomenon of cops killing African-American men is at this point, uh, years and years old. And the act itself is centuries old.

And then it's like, at what point, like the other day you and I were DMing and you, and I said, how do you feel? And he goes, you, you go like,

I feel more optimistic than I have. And it's like, where does the optimism come from right now? Well, I think the optimism, to be honest with you, comes from younger people, number one, who didn't sign up for that. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Younger people are more optimistic, and they truly believe that they want things to be fair. I don't think that they—I think that's what they're fighting for. Things should be fair.

The other thing, too, is I think that— When you say younger, you're saying like current, like teenagers, 20, 30-somethings kind of thing? Yeah, because like at the marches that I'm going to now, and I should say the rallies, because when they start marching and shit, I'm like, I'm headed home, man. Wait, what's the difference in your mind between the march and the rally? The rally stays in place.

The march goes over the bridge, man. Fuck off. Right. You're not going over the bridge. Man, y'all can... A bridge on, man. i'm all for the rally and i and i'm i'm trying to do my part in other ways do you know what i mean yeah i'm gonna grab a honey bun yeah i'm gonna dedicate some honey buns to brother floyd you hand out honey buns on the brooklyn side of the bridge and you say, good luck to you guys.

And pour out a little orange juice for the homie Floyd. But yeah, man, I think that these young people, the other thing, to be honest with you, is I think that for the first time in a lot of white people's eyes, they actually got to see the whole tape this time. Not what you see on cops, you know, some guys kicking a door in. And, you know, there's a kind of a dismissive, well, he must have done something. Sure.

This time, the normal he must have done something was gone. You don't get to say he must have done something this time because we all watch the same thing. Do you know what I mean? So there was no shield. There was no, hey, I still want to sleep. You get to watch what it looks like to be a sizable black man when the cops are in that mood. You finally get to know what it's like to be John Lasseter when the task jumps out of that van and they come running at you. Yeah. That's what you get. And they had to watch it in its rawness from start to finish. Now, of course, the post that I was presenting was saying that this is happening all day, every day. This is our experience with the cops. I just didn't happen to die on any of those occasions, thank God.

Yeah. But I mean, I don't think that George Floyd, I don't think anyone would say that this guy died in vain. So I think that you are going to see some police reform. I've never seen so many chiefs of police. I've never got so many heartwarming letters like, hey, I cried. I had no idea this type of thing went on, which is another sad thing in movements, you know, where you have this happening to black men all the time. And most people, unlike yourself, Mike, have never said, okay, well, let's ask black men what they think. Let's ask the people, the aggrieved party. Everybody's like, oh, fuck the police and this, that, the other. How many of you guys have ever

had a black guy on your show or sat down and say, hey, what is your experience with this? Just like the immigration debate that I used to be mad, like how many of us have ever talked to the dishwashers, the barbacks, the guys who make New York City, have ever sat down and had a 10, 15 minute, you have all these opinions on immigration. Have you ever talked to one of these guys who walked over the border that works here?

Have you ever sat down and talked? Because I have. I think, yeah, and I think like, one of the things about the Comedy Cellar, which is where you and I are friends from, and being in the pandemic, it's one of the things I miss the most is being at the Comedy Cellar.

I'll come home from the Comedy Cellar and say to my wife, I just had great conversations because you have, among the comedians, a range of perspectives that is really wide. Absolutely. Absolutely. Like, a range of opinions and a range of experiences.

And bright people. Bright people. And conservative people who I don't often agree with, but are willing to have tough conversations. I've had lots of conversations with my white counterparts who really want to believe, they want to believe that everything is equal. By the way, John, not only equal, you hear the term reverse racism, which is, I think, a very humorous term.

Right. And then you have to argue against that. And it's, I mean, I throw my arms up about those conversations. Right. Well, the other thing now, and I know that there's probably going to be some people that are mad at me for this, is the other thing is take, for example, the, you know, going back to the post that I put on my Instagram. My sister, my own sister, called me concerned after she saw the post, and she said, how come I never knew this? Do you know what I mean? And I felt that way when I read it. That's what I posted immediately was, I've known John for a few years.

We tell stories to each other a lot. A lot. And I haven't heard these stories. I've heard other stories that you've told about being messed with by the police, but I haven't even heard these stories. Yeah. So I think that part of what needed to happen, which is why I posted this for this particular situation right now. The reason why I put that story up is it was like, you know what? If I don't share these stories because I felt so powerless and I was so angry.

So how can you expect someone to understand what you're going through if you've not shared it? Yeah. You know? And I'm with a few of my buddies the other day. A buddy of mine was doing this poem. He asked us to all come down and read a couple lines. He's putting it together for a documentary. So it's five black guys there, all of whom have at least the same amount of stories that I do,

all sizable black dudes. And all of them, when I asked them after we got done talking, exchanging war stories about shit the cops had done to us, right? I said, who did you tell? Nobody. None of us had ever told anyone. Wow. We've never documented it.

We've never outwardly said, and then I went home and I felt like this. There's a scene in this movie called Boys in the Hood. Yeah, I love it. Yes. Cuba Gooding Jr., black cop actually, puts a gun to his head. Yeah, oh my gosh. Yes. And he goes and knocks on his girlfriend's door.

He comes in the foyer of his girlfriend's house. Yeah. He starts punching and crying and crumbles up on the floor and she keeps asking him, what's wrong? What's wrong? He never says anything. Yeah. He just has that same feeling that I did. The same feeling that the guy who took the skateboard and broke that back window of that cop's car, which is what started the Minneapolis ball rolling. They had just had it.

I feel like when I talk to my African-American friends, I feel like a recurring theme is that they don't feel like the police are there to protect them, like that they're not on your team. Yo, Mike, I've never, ever seen the police as anything except for modern day slave patrols. Wow. modern day slave patrols. That their entire, entire purpose in life was to protect white people. I lived in Fort Greene, Brooklyn when I first moved to New York. It was a little rougher than it is now. I remember moving to New York because the cops harassed us so much where I'm from. In the Midwest and out West, the cops are a constant harassment because you're in your car. So they're stopping you. You're not going to make it a week without the cops stopping you.

That's just not going to happen. Yeah, Malcolm Gladwell talks about this in his book, Talking to Strangers, which is basically like cops will pull people over for broken taillight or, you know, no seatbelt on or little minor infractions to sort of start the conversation that might lead to a more major infraction. Yes, it is

incessant. Because cops can, this is what I understand, cops can basically pull you over for anything. Yeah, but I mean... There's like 900 things they could pull you over for anything. Yeah. But I mean, there's like nine, there's like 900 things they could pull you over for if they chose to. So I went to jail for the night in Denver because they're always ticketing you. Right. So if you forget to pay a ticket, then you got a warrant. Then when they stop you the next time, that's how you end up in jail.

So I ended up in jail one time. They stopped me. This is the funny thing. This is hilarious. And then I'll go back to the Fort Greene situation about them protecting white people. So they get me out the car. They put the cuffs on me. I'm going downtown. Somebody calls my coach to get me out. My coach said, the ticket said, this is what they even wrote on the ticket, that there was a crack in my front windshield. Keep in mind, this is a hairline crack. Meaning if you were standing right in front of my car, in front of my car, you could barely see it. It's a hairline. You'd have to know where it was. They said that they spotted that in their cop car behind my car. And that's why they pull. Are you serious? It's nonsensical. It's a superpower called white vision. It's called white cop vision. But back to Fort Greene. So I'm in Fort Greene. I'm living there five, ten years.

Of course, gentrification is happening all over New York City. Do you know that when white people started moving in the neighborhood, they put cops at the G train station right outside of the station and then on every corner all the way over to Myrtle Avenue. So it's probably like four corners. But to me, that is what the cops are there for, to make sure that white women can safely get off the train and walk through this new neighborhood that they're gentrifying. Those cops were never there. I lived in that apartment for seven years. Only when white people moved in, all of a sudden, we need police patrol on each corner. That's what the cops are to me, not some fucking friendly faces.

They're here to keep you away from any white people. And a constant source of harassment. And of course, now I'm doing better, which is another reason why I wrote the post. I felt like, who am I? Now you live in this cool ass neighborhood. Right. Your career's going better. You're living in a better place. I'm not around that, you know? Yeah. But I don't want to be one of those fucking people, man, that goes on and, you know, basically ran out of a house that was on fire. And now I've moved and I pretend that I don't know that that house is still on fire. You know that fucking house is still on fire, man.

Of course, yeah. You still got to do something. So, you know, like I said, I'm trying to do my part because I know that there are people that are still harassed on a daily basis. And, you know, I mean, and they do stuff like when I went to jail for walking in between the train cars, I'm in the holding cell. All of the black men are in there, all of us, 100% of us, for train station violations. This is during the stop and frisk when they were doing sweeps, just rounding up black and Latino men. You know what the two white guys were in there for? Selling coke to an undercover cop.

Unbelievable. The two white guys that were in the cell with us were these young guys selling coke to an undercover cop. The rest of us were in there jumping a train, walking in between train cars, using a student MetroCard as an adult. And I'm talking about a cell. So there's probably 40 of us in the cell. using a student MetroCard as an adult. And I'm talking about a cell, so there's probably 40 of us in the cell. It's all the same. It's the same hustle. The white guys in there, selling Coke to an undercover. Yeah.

And the government of New York admitted that. They said stop and frisk was unconstitutional. They said that stopping frisk was unconstitutional. They said that harassing us was unconstitutional. They didn't even deny, the judge didn't even deny that all those years that they were just stopping us for no reason, harassing us, targeting black and Latino men

was a policy. We're not talking about the 40s. Yeah. And you wonder what I think of cops versus what you think of cops? Very different. The podcast is called Working It Out, which is what I call my shows before they're done, basically. I just call them Working It Out as an indicator to the audience

that everything you're watching is not done. I always tell people at the end of my shows, the Working It Out shows, I go, you might leave here tonight, and you go, that was funny, go that was funny and that was funny and uh and and then you'll come you'll come back and see me in six months and like you know the one of your favorite jokes one of your favorite stories might just be gone and you'll go hey how come that's gone and i'll say because of you because you you didn't laugh so i cut it and that's what working it out is all

about and it's like since we're in the quarantine i decided i'm gonna bring it to a podcast and so you know we've had john mulaney and hannah gadsby and and and judd apatow a bunch of people and and and what i was thinking about with you because i've always loved watching you and we you and i are are back to back on stage a lot at The Cellar, so we've watched each other a lot. When I was thinking about you, I feel like, have you considered telling some of these stories on stage? You know what?

I think that I haven't, because sometimes the stuff that pains you the most, you just want it to go away. Of course. You know what I mean? You want to put it behind you and be like, eh, you know. But I probably could or should, for sure. I think you should consider it.

Because I'm like, you know, with me, the things that I've had the most success talking about on stage are like having a bladder tumor when I was 19 and sleepwalking through a second story window in Walla Walla, Washington. the pain and then come out the other side with something funny. I mean, you've even said things just talking, you know, today on this podcast, like that are just throwaway lines that are funny and, and that, you know, as sad as the larger story is the smaller stuff within those stories, I think can be funny. and then the other thing is like i think it ultimately it's educational it's like oh you look at like will and grace for example and it's like will and grace is like in on the on the surface it's like a light sick it was a light sitcom right but the net result of it was it ended up changing and contributing to changing the way people feel about people's different sexuality. And I feel that way about stories like the ones you're telling right now.

I feel like people need to hear those stories, but they don't they don't want to hear the stories right and so it's so it's like it's like that old uh it's like that old expression it's like when they're laughing is when is when you give them the medicine yes exactly like i remember i was on tour once with chris gethard and he we were late night just driving. And he told me this story about how he tried to commit suicide. And I said to him, I go like, if you could make that funny, if you could find the humor within what is the deepest, darkest sadness in your life, that's going to be gold. And then he made this special career suicide, which is great.

No, that's going to be gold. And then he made this special career suicide, which is great. No, that's awesome. You know what's so crazy is I think that my, I think that my addiction stuff, which was very tough for me to get to, the darkest bowels of that, I got over that hurdle and told jokes about that. And actually about the one night that I wanted to kill myself, I actually do that on stage.

And you can feel the whole room come to a grinding halt. And I remember... What is that story? Can you tell that story? Oh, yeah. Would you mind telling us? It's a true story, too. It's so funny.

The first time I did it, I remember there was a comedian, this buddy of mine named Matt. He's sitting at the end of the bar at Stand Up New York. Stand Up New York's got a bar, and then there's a glass window where you can look into the showroom, but you're not in the showroom. So I started the joke, and I remember finishing the joke and coming out of the showroom, and he said, that was scary. He said, I didn't know how you were going to pull the nose up on the plane when you had went down into something that dark. But the story was that I, you know, with my drinking, my drugging back in the day, I had become chemically depressed. Because if you keep drinking alcohol, you're doing coke, eventually it becomes a depressant. You're just depressed.

alcohol, you're doing coke, eventually it becomes a depressant. You're just depressed. And I wanted to kill myself and found out that if you did tons of coke, drank, and then took sleeping pills, you would die. You would chip out. That's what somebody told me. So I'm trying, I'm trying to, with these, I'm thinking about doing that with these sleeping pills. But at the time, I was so broke and I was actually homeless. Oh my gosh. How old were you at this point? Oh man, 28, 29. Yeah. And were you in New York at that point? Yeah. And I was kind of couch surfing at the time. And then it dawned on me that I had been in my

friend's, I had been staying at my friend's house. He was one of the places that I was staying. And I remember in his medicine cabinet, he had sleeping pills. So I was like, oh shit, I can go over to his house, get the sleeping pills and end this misery. And I was on my way to his house and I found $160 in the street. Oh my gosh. And I started thinking to myself, this is a terrible night to die. So I've been able to wrestle some of those demons to the surface and get them on stage,

but not these, not the cop ones yet yeah i mean i just think it's i think it would be great to pull off it'll be hard to pull off because what happens is is like i posted your thing and then i got all these people responding to go all lives matter and then i go like and then i replied to those i go to anyone saying all lives matter, I totally agree. I totally agree. As soon as we reach a point where everyone in America, including police, believe that black people are part of all. Well, I think that that's still tricky for them to understand. You know the way that I've explained it to my white friends who believe that all lives matter or blue lives matter. And then we had the conversation and then they

were like, you know what, John? Okay. I get it now. So what I tell them, Mike is in the event that, um, you see a, let's say that, that that cop did what he did to Nikki Glaser. Yeah. He would have been in jail as soon as he got back to the police station. That's right. Nikki Glaser's our friend. She's a comedian. She's a white comedian friend of ours.

Yeah. If that had been a white woman under his knee, all four of them would have been arrested. You know, it would have been a shock. It would have been an immediate shock to the nation. It would have been everyone in all the all the people in jail. Yeah, absolutely. Right. So or let's flip it around. Let's say that somehow a guy gets his arms around a cop, wrestles the gun away, and chokes a cop out to death. He would immediately be arrested. You know what I mean? So a lot of times when people say, oh, all lives matter. Yeah, but you know what? When things happen to you guys,

somehow justice is played out swiftly and the way we expect it to be. justice is played out swiftly and the way we expect it to be. Black Lives Matter isn't saying that our lives matter than yours. We just want the same thing that would happen if you choked out a cop on camera. We want the same thing that would happen if we saw Nikki Glaser on the ground. Like, that's all we're asking for. Why, when it's us, does there have to be this lag in this and and and and you got to burn cities down to even get cops on the cops if i walked outside right now me and you were standing outside mike and you pointed at me when a cop rolled by and say hey this guy just punched me they would forget

on me they put the cuffs on me how do we get to watch these guys on videotape kill a guy and none of them get arrested? Yeah. You know what I mean? So when I've been explaining it to my white friends, they're like, you know what? None of them deny the fact that if that was a white woman on the ground, everyone, they're all like, yeah, that's true. And then when I say, or if a cop had done that, they say, yeah, that's true. And I said, well, then now you understand. And they were like, OK, that makes sense. Now I get the Black Lives Matter thing. How come that is what you're saying is true and there's vast injustice right now and there's been vast injustice for so long? How are you not more angry than you are? more angry than you are? Well, to be honest with you, if in the event that, and you know, we're not going to name any names on here, but Mike, you know, you know, some angry black comedians. If I turn into the angry black guy, they'll say, see, this is where these guys just sit around and bitch. They just sit me and you wouldn't be having this conversation right now because you would be like, John is an

impossible person to be around. Right. We wouldn't be having this discussion. So if you turn to that guy, you're actually, then it actually works. Then the knee on your neck, actually, you gotta keep going. You gotta, you gotta get up in the morning, strap it back on, and keep pushing. I don't know why I'm getting choked up, but you got to find a way. Yeah, you're right. I think you're right. Or otherwise, you're the bitter guy that people are like, you know what, man? We can't.

We can't fuck with this guy. He's always complaining. He's always bitching. Well, look at all this shit he's got to bitch about. Get him to find some place to live. Yeah, I know. So you don't, you know, I think that you, I think you cut yourself off from the blessings

that will come. I'm still, you know, I'm very optimistic. This is a thing that we do on the show called the slow round. And it's kind of like the speed round, but it's slow. And it's quick. It's just memory things. It's like memory prompts that I do for myself when I'm writing stuff. And one of them is,

do you remember a smell from childhood? I remember a distinct smell that I remember when I was younger was cigars. Because- I love cigar smell. Do you? Yeah, I love it. And pipe smoke. Yes, I love the smell. Do you? Yeah, I love it. And pipe smoke.

Yes, I love the smell of pipes. Cigars, though, reminded me of my father. Because my father smoked cigars and we would go see him in the summertime. I mean, at least until I was old enough to have something else to do. But anytime I smell a cigar, my brain immediately pops to my dad who died a few years ago. Oh. Yeah, smoking. Well, again, smoking cigars. Yeah, dad smoking cigars.

Doing what he loved. That can get you lung cancer. Yeah, my dad had a room where he had his pipe when I was a kid, and that smelled like pipe smoke in there. Yeah, I love that smell.

Yeah. I just love that. Pipe smoke smells good. I feel like I want to smoke a pipe, but I feel like I haven't quite aged into it yet. I feel like I'm a few years away from hitting a pipe. I feel like I'm $100 million away from smoking a pipe. Hitting a pipe.

I feel like I'm $100 million away from smoking a pipe. Is that how much you have to have? I think you got to have close to $100 million if you're going to fucking sit there with a pipe. Because if you fucking smoke a pipe. Chappelle can smoke a pipe. Chappelle can smoke a pipe. If I see a motherfucker smoking a pipe sitting on a bus stop, I'm going to slap the shit out of him. Like, you are not. I'm going to exchange that for a crack pipe here this is the pipe you need

there's a financial threshold to smoke absolutely a pipe and we all know it there's a hundred dollar minimum all right um this is uh called on a loop do you have a memory that doesn't fit into your act or a story, but is like on a loop in your brain, either from your childhood or growing up where you go, like, I can't get that memory out of my head. I can't get, and this is sad, right? But sometimes there's humor in these things where you don't know. Yo, my ex-ex- ex girlfriend didn't know she had asthma and died right in front

of me oh my gosh in the hospital yeah oh my god code blue holy cow yes and i've never been able to shake that it it still haunts me to this day she didn didn't know she had asthma, and so she couldn't breathe. Yeah. And then you took her to the hospital. Yeah, we broke up. She calls me one night and says, hey, I can't breathe. Could you come over to the house and help me? She lives a couple blocks away.

Oh, my gosh. So I run over there, and she's sitting there, and she's short of breath. And I'm like, you know, what's going on? And the hospital, by the grace of God, just a couple of blocks away, the Brooklyn hospital. She lives on DeKalb two, three blocks from the hospital. So we walked down there and we're sitting there all night and visiting hours are over. And I'm like, I'm not leaving until you guys do something. And, um, so eventually long story short, they put her on oxygen. I come back in the morning and they're moving her to upstairs instead of down in the emergency room so that she can have a, uh, a room and see a doctor. Cause now it's the morning.

The doctor's going to come in and look at her. They take the oxygen off and her heart stopped. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So these doctors come flying in the room. Like they pushed me out of the room like i was a rag doll you know yeah yo get the fuck out of here code blue and it was the most it was the worst thing the only thing that i can compare to that is hearing my mother cry when she had to walk home after a winter storm one night and that was kind of the night

that i decided i'm going big in life do Do you know what I mean? I'm going to do something huge. Wait, why was your mother crying? I don't understand. There was a snowstorm in Denver and the buses, don't ask me whose genius decision this was. They decided to stop running the buses. So she had to walk home. And I had never heard my mom crying like this. So my mom, she keeps her stone face on or whatever. Hey, kids, blah, blah, blah. Sorry, I had to walk home from the bank. Goes into her bedroom and starts bawling. And I remember the rage boiling in me that we didn't have a car and I didn't have a way to get us a car. Wow.

But that's when I was, that was the day in my life that I was like, I'm going to do something to the utmost. Wow. Yeah, to pay my mom back. Wow. And I, you know, I didn't know it was going to be basketball, that I would play basketball at a high level. But that's when I started buckling down and start doing things intensely. Do you have a skill that no one knows about?

And mine is really stupid. It's what my wife finds it to be uncanny that when we're driving in the middle of nowhere and we see a pizzeria, I can tell her whether it's a good pizzeria or a bad pizzeria. Do I have a skill that no one knows about? Or are you under... The other question is, are you underestimated? Do you ever find this thing

where you're like, come on, man, I know how to do that, but nobody takes you seriously? Something that I know how to do? I know how to do i know how to find coke you tell me i've never used coke so i'm curious how do you find coke i can spot the the uh the coke man uh uh in any town under any circumstances wow yeah just like you know you can spot restaurants i can spot the coke man tell me this because i i've never used, and I don't think I ever will.

I mean, I'm so afraid of drugs because I sleepwalk through a window. You know, I can't. I like a lot of medical shit. I remember watching that in your movie, man, years ago before I knew you. Yeah, and so, like, I ago before I knew you. Yeah. And so I'm aversion to drugs, but is there coke in every town? Oh, there's coke.

Okay. Let me tell you something. If we went scuba diving, I could find coke. I could find the coke dealer under the water. Oh, that scuba coke is good. That scuba coke is not to be fucked with. It doesn't matter where you are,

you can find the yayo, man. What are the hints? What are the hints when someone has coke? I don't know, man. It's like a spidey sense. Do you know what I mean? When you look around a room. I mean, you can always tell

by people going to the bathroom. You know what I mean? Nobody has to pee three times at a goddamn Golden Corral in half an hour. I mean, you can always tell by people going to the bathroom. You know what I mean? Yeah, sure. Nobody has to pee three times at a goddamn Golden Corral in half an hour. Do you know what I mean? Do you think there's a lot of coke when we're at the cellar? Like, I've never seen coke at the cellar. Um, yeah.

Yeah. Well, I'll tell you why you've never seen coke at the cellar, because you're normally out of there before, too. You're right. Yeah, that's true. If you are at the Cellar after 2.30, you will know where the Yale is. That's when the shit goes down. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.

What is the oddest thing you've ever witnessed that you weren't a part of, that you just saw? I remember seeing, there used to be these, there used to be a really dirty, kind of like, they used to have these spots in Brooklyn. Of course, it's all gentrified, so all that stuff is gone. But they used to have these spots in Brooklyn where you had to know a password or something to get into some of these strip clubs because they were anything goes. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. It's a one-stop shop. Right. Right. Right. Right. You know, it's a smorgasbord. But some of the girls used to walk down the street to the next corner. And I remember one time, and I also hosted a weekly comedy show there. So I come out of the comedy show.

I'm walking around the corner to the strip. At the strip club. At the strip club you did. Right around the corner. Yeah. Oh, right around the corner. Right around the corner. Because the strip club was on the corner. Mine was in the middle of the block.

The strip club was right around the corner. But sometimes we would go over there and get a drink after the show was over. And I remember one time walking over there and some of the strippers are standing there at the gas station. And there's a line, and I mean literally a line, of Hasidic Jewish guys waiting to get blown in this car. But they're standing there politely. Oh, my God. Just standing there. And I was like, and I mean the hoodest of black girls.

You know what I mean? Like red wigs and the fucking sparkling things on the face. Like hood black chicks. How many people in the line? How many Hasidic Jews in the line? Like 11. Oh my gosh. That's how many honey buns you eat in a day.

Yeah. So we end on a segment called Working It Out for Charity. And what we like to do is just shine a light on a nonprofit or charity that's doing good work right now. Obviously, there's a ton. Do you have any that you particularly respect what they're doing right now? I am a huge fan of the United Negro College Fund. You know, I think that they've done the right thing for, I don't know, any time a fund that big survives for decade after decade.

And I know a lot of people who benefited from it with no scandals. That's good. And no scandals. Never has anyone accused them. You know, you've never seen them in the paper for doing the wrong thing or some Ponzi scheme. They're actually doing the right thing with that money. The only thing that the only problem I have with them is they've given a lot of white people license to use the word Negro casually. That's my issue, John. They've opened the Negro casual door. I can't tell you how many times I've heard older white people say to me,

well, you know, the United Negro College Fund, that has the word Negro in it, so you can say, you know, like, easy. Get back here, you damn Negro. College Fund. College Fund. Yeah. I'm going to contribute to them, and we'll link to them in the show notes. And and I feel like there's a unique episode of working it out because, you know, it's an old saying, but comedy is tragedy plus time.

And I think that we're living in a moment of tragedy. And I'd like to think we'll look back at this conversation. We'll listen to this six months and a year from now. And we'll go, maybe there's something funny in that that can be transformed into something humorous and that we can heal from it. Oh, absolutely. I think that's all we can hope for. Absolutely. Yeah.

And that'll definitely happen. Absolutely. I mean, once you say something out of your mouth, then you could, you know, that means the clay's on the table. Then you can start manipulating it. Sometimes it's just tough to get out, but we already got it out. So yeah, now we can start playing with it. what you're posting on Instagram, which is your handles, he was funny. He was funny. Yeah. At he was funny, which I've always thought is a hilarious handle to have on Instagram. He was funny is the complete devaluation of yourself into you don't even give your own name. You just go he.

You know what's so crazy, though? If I give my name, people screw up the spelling. So it was just easy. Yeah, because no H. Yes. John, J-O-N, J-O-N-L-A-S-T-E-R. Yeah. But it's much easier to just go, at, he was funny.

Yeah, and then you'll see right under that, when you get there, they'll see John Laster and know how to spell it. But if they tried to find me, like, first of all, they would fuck up John, and then they would screw up Lasseter. So go to, and he was funny, and then, yeah, you'll see John. Like, then, you know, it's just easier to get to me. Well, we're going to see a lot of John Lasseter in the next few years because you're a true talent and a really good person. And I feel lucky that we're friends. And I feel lucky that we're friends. I feel really lucky that we're friends.

I love you, Mike, and I appreciate you, brother. All right. Love you, pal. Well, there's another episode of Working It Out. My very special thanks to John Laster. You can find him on Instagram at the handle at hewasfunny. Our producers are Peter Salamone and Joseph Birbiglia. Consulting producer, Seth Barish. Sound mix by Kate Balinski.

Special thanks to my consigliere, Mike Berkowitz. And always very special thanks to Jack Antonoff for our music and my wife, J-Hope Stein, and our daughter, Una, who created the radio fort. Our book comes out tomorrow in bookstores that are opened and have curbside things and on websites that sell books. It is out.

After all these months and years, we hope you'll check it out. To find out more, go to thenewone.com. Thanks to everyone who listened. Tell your friends, tell your enemies. We're working it out.