Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 33. Nathan Lane: He Deserves Special Treatment

Episode Date: March 8, 2021

Mike is joined by Broadway legend Nathan Lane who just so happened to have changed Mike’s life 13 years ago. 1 month after they met Nathan was the witness for Mike’s wedding at City Hall…and then 4 months after *that* Nathan presented Mike’s off-Broadway debut Sleepwalk With Me. Nathan has hilarious stories about working with Matthew Broderick on The Producers and Mike Nichols on The Birdcage as well as insightful notes on the newest material for Mike’s next show. https://broadwaycares.org/

This is the question I always ask. Has the podcast started? The podcast? A little like sex. I'm never quite sure. Hey, everybody. We are back with another episode of Working It Out. This is Mike Birbiglia.

We have a very, very special guest today, Nathan Lane. I want to mention one thing before we get started, that tickets are going fast for my virtual show, the Worldwide Comedy Pizza Party that is March 24th through 27th. Order your own local pizza. I'm going to order my own local pizza. It's all jokes about pizza. We're doing slow round questions about pizza. And so get your tickets. But today we have Nathan Lane. It is such an honor to know him and to witness his work. He is a three-time Tony Award winning, Emmy Award winning actor from the producers and Angels in America. And a funny thing happened on the way to the forum and the birdcage.

And I mean, he's just done everything. He's, you know, the good wife and modern family. I mean, just like he's done everything. He's played a huge part in my personal life and in my career. And I hope you enjoy my conversation with the great Nathan Lane. This is a unique episode in that we've known each other for a long time, and we have a long story, and I want to get it all in. And so I wrote a little piece for the beginning.

It's very unusual, and I'm going to refer to you in it in the third person. Okay. Are you okay with that? Sure. What am I doing? Yeah. Do whatever you want. You can chime in. Okay.

If you want, and you can correct me, you can make fun of me, you can do whatever you want. Like an old married couple. Okay. That's right. So, but I just wrote this out today because I thought it would give people some context. In March of 2008, I performed at Caroline's on Broadway Comedy Club for the weekend. And it just so happened that I decided to perform three different sets that weekend. My first album, Two Drink Mike,

my second, My Secret Public Journal, and an early version of my solo show, Sleepwalk With Me. That way, people who had seen one of the shows might return to see multiple shows. No one did that. It assumed that my audience's fervor for my comedy was such that they would come to see me at a nightclub three nights in a row like I'm the Grateful Dead of comedy, which I wasn't and still am not. But you thought that was going to happen? Nathan, I'm so delusional. I really, every step of the way, I've been so delusional.

We all have to be a little delusional in show business. How else can you survive? No, you're absolutely right. And it was a very, it's an embarrassing detail about that weekend. But the other one, the other detail that's embarrassing is the audiences were light. But when I showed up to work on Saturday, the manager, Kenny told me Nathan Lane was in the audience. And this was shocking because Nathan Lane, it really was, it was what probably that, that alone was one of the biggest deals that ever

happened in my entire career. You just showing up in the, Oh no, no, no. It was, I mean, maybe it's better than, you know, Jamie far is in the house, but, uh, I, well, I'm very touched to think that you, it was, uh, an exciting moment for you. It's another part of your delusion. Let's put it that way. So Nathan was an actor and comedian I'd watched on Letterman for years. I was actually re-watching your 1995 appearance today and laughing really hard. Nathan always killed. His name was always in lights when I walked through Broadway. I distinctly remember not being able to afford tickets to his Tony Award-winning performance of The Producers.

The year I moved to New York, and the reason I remember is because everyone would ask me, oh, you're a comedian. Have you seen The Producers? And of course, I couldn't afford it, but I would just say, I haven't made it there yet. Meanwhile, my bank account was in parentheses. So back to 2008, I perform a version of Sleepwalk with Mia Carolines. And after the show, Nathan didn't come backstage. And I kept asking the manager, is Nathan coming back? And he kept circling the lobby. He finally came back and said, Nathan is gone.

And I was crushed. All right. Now let me interrupt. Yeah, please, please. Unless you're, unless you're going to explain. No, no, of course. Oh no. I mean, I did go back.

Oh really? Oh yes. I went back and there was a big line and I did to get in to see you. And yeah. And there was a big line to get in to see you. Yeah. So in spite of you thinking it was a lighthouse, they obviously loved you. And there were a lot of people. So I didn't want to wait because I didn't know you.

I was just a fan because I'd seen you on Comedy Central performing and thought you were great, which is why I went, and then was very surprised that it was this early version of Sleepwalk with me. It was not your typical stand-up material, although extremely funny. So I left. Oh, okay. But then I sent you a bottle of champagne and a note that's right to explain that i had gone back but it was crowded so i left and just wrote you the note and sent you champagne thank you for a wonderful performance did i not that's that's right and that's what i wrote the next night i show up for the final show and there's a bottle of dom pignon and uh in a handwritten note from Nathan Lane that said,

paraphrasing, what you're doing is very special. Keep going. And I was headed to California the next morning for what would become a failed sitcom pilot with my name on it. And when I was filming, I felt so consistently defeated that I put the handwritten note in my dressing room on my mirror, which was a reminder that at least Nathan Lane thinks that I'm funny. And I don't know if I've ever told you that, actually.

Many times. You know, I don't think there's a time you haven't brought it up and i but again i am very touched that uh it that it meant that much so so i um when i get back from california from the failed pilot i wrote you a note and you called me and said, Mike, in a pitch perfect impression of Nathan Lane, you said, it's Nathan Lane. And I was momentarily stunned, regained composure, and said that Jen and I would love to come to your play, which was November by David Mamet at the Barrymore and get dinner afterwards. And we saw it, we were blown away. And then we went to dinner at a quiet restaurant. And

at one point, Nathan Lane said, so are you two going to get married? I had been asked this by family and friends, but Nathan asking was a different type of inquisitor. This is someone I admired for many years and who I may never see again. So my answer in some ways was to speak for the next 10 or 20 years. So I said, yes, I think we are. And Jen said, that's the first I've heard of it. Wow. I, I, now I sort of remember this. Yeah. It was a look of surprise on her face and uh and jen and i were talking about it and i was i was merely it was like an uncle at thanksgiving say hey you two kids getting married and yeah i really, it really shifted things. It did.

And part of me saying yes was that I, like I said, I might never see Nathan again. And part of it was that Nathan Lane makes me nervous. There's something, I say this with love, there's something about when Nathan stares into you that forces you to tell the truth. about when Nathan stares into you that forces you to tell the truth. And I witness it with myself and in his cast whenever I see him in a play. There's an honesty to every show he's in because he's in it. Oh.

So a month after the dinner, Jen and I went to City Hall and we got married. And who would be our witness? We called Nathan Lane on the way to City Hall and asked him to meet us with his partner, Devlin Elliott. But that's because two people dropped out. Right? It was my friend Ptolemy Slocum was the first person we called. I'm always saying, you know, he had that.

I say it's Pythagoras. But yes, Ptolemy. When you said Ptolemy couldn't make it, I was that, I say it's Pythagoras, but yes, Ptolemy. When you said Ptolemy couldn't make it, I was like, oh man. And maybe, and Plutarch was busy writing. He couldn't, he was in the middle of writing. So, oh yes. No, I remember it was a July, hot July day. And Devlin and I, being homosexuals, put on suits down at the city hall.

And you and Jen were like in shorts and teepers. Like you were, you know, on a kibbutz in Israel. And then there was a long line. Yes. And I said to you, well, maybe someone, the lady at the desk will recognize me and we can move things along. And you said in a very earnest way, oh, Nathan, I don't want any special treatment. And I said, really? Because I live for special treatment.

Only reason I went into show business, it was in the hopes of getting special. Oh, that's very funny. And fortunately, the lady did recognize me. And you did sort of skip the line a bit. And yes, and we got in much sooner than, you know, was anticipated. And and you you had your beautiful ceremony. And then afterwards, I thought, oh,. And you had your beautiful ceremony. And then afterwards, I thought, oh, you must be going on a honeymoon. And you said, no, we're going to go see a movie and get some pizza.

We took the one train up to our apartment. And we went to Big Nick's and had pizza and hamburgers. And we took a nap. But a few years later, Nathan also got special treatment. When Jenny and I were asked by Nathan and Devlin to be the witnesses for their wedding at City Hall. Except this time, we were in this very nice, pleasant, sort of non-DMV building next to City Hall. That was nothing like where we were, that I didn't even know existed. And it was the most emotional wedding I've attended to this day.

And it was the most emotional wedding I've attended to this day. Even Mike Pence would have cried, but for other reasons. But there was an intensity in the wedding because the seriousness with which Nathan took the vows was the same seriousness with which he takes the stage. He's telling the truth. So back to summer of 2008, Nathan offered to put his name on my show Sleepwalk With Me, which was about to be my off-Broadway debut. And I never say this because it feels tacky, but he never took any money from the show. We didn't have a contract. He just said, use my name, maybe it'll help. And the show ran for eight months, and it changed my career forever. And every few days, an audience member would approach me and say, when we saw Nathan Lane's name on the show, we thought it was going to be a musical. And I would say, there are no

refunds, ma'am. And then in closing, my dad never wanted me to be a comedian, but Nathan Lane did. And I'm very lucky for that. Well, that reminds me of the only, you know, I never had any notes. It was never my, I would never felt it was my place. I was just presenting. I was emotionally involved, but not financially. But my only note to you is once you would change the ending and you had that great, brilliant ending, which you then went back to. Which is my dad saying, don't tell anyone. Whatever you do, don't tell anyone.

Like that was the perfect ending. And I think you tried out one other ending that one night. Yes. I saw it and I thought, oh, no, you've got to. It's the best ending. One of the best closing lines to a play since the son of a bitch stole my watch in the front page. It's so funny because to hear you talk about plays,

like you're one of these people who, and I've only had professors in my life who have the depth of knowledge that you do about film and theater history. And so, so like, for example, when you were working on the O'Neill play, Iceman Cometh, and Laurie Metcalf was working on Long Day's Journey in the West End. And there's this series of letters between you in the New York Times that were published. I saw both shows, actually.

Jen and I went to the West End. We saw Lori and we saw your show in Chicago and then we saw it in New York. The experience of spending time with you versus Lori after the show is very different. Lori came off stage and we're all crying we're all a mess and she just goes so where are you guys staying you know what i mean like right so laurie yes yes and then you and then you come off and it's like you are i feel like you're living inside of e O'Neill's skin for a week afterwards. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that role will do that to you.

Yeah, no, Laurie, you know, she's a genius. She's just, you know, she does it. You don't know how she's doing it. You can't catch her acting, and yet it's devastating. And then she comes off and says, Hey, let's go get a, you want to play poker?

Let's go get some wine. And you know, it's like, that's that happened. And now I'm, I'm Laurie again. No, for me, it's I'm like Judy Garland's every time I die a little as Frank.

No, I, um, Every time I die a little, as Frank Sinatra said. No, that show in particular, because of what it costs you to go to that place. Yes. It was when I, the year that Denzel Washington later did it on Broadway, George C. Wolfe directed it, and he played Hickey, and I saw him in a Tony luncheon. I was doing Angels in America at the time. So we saw each other across a crowded room, and I don't know Denzel Washington. I just, I think he's one of our greatest actors. So he came over.

He saw me. And he started pointing to me. And he came over. And he just leaned in and he said, you know what I'm going through. Oh, my gosh. And I said, oh, yes. Yes, I do, brother. And I'm with you.

No. A hundred percent. Yeah, yes. Yes, I do, brother. And I'm with you. No, 100 percent. Yeah, no, it's it's I mean, that's sort of the greatness of the play. What it what is asking you to do as, you know, O'Neill is asking you to be as brave as he is in the writing. And it's a it's an awful place to go. And in my case, it was we were only doing it six times a week but believe me that was enough because i was i was haunted by it i would i wouldn't sleep i would think about it all night i would you know and then you and especially a huge play like that you know we're talking about

close to five hours so it was five hours yeah well you think about oh what what didn't go right what maybe did maybe a little breakthrough here or there. And, you know, it's look, it was just one. It was a life changing experience to do it. Yeah. I mean, and Angels in America, of course, is, I would say, equally dark. Certainly your character, Roy Cohen, is so is so dark. Roy Cohen is so dark. I mean, does it hurt your quality of life when you leave the stage to be Roy Cohen?

No, unlike Hickey. Look, that's, it's, again, Tony Kushner. It's just one of the greatest plays and one of the greatest parts ever written. But for some reason, I... It's just one of the greatest plays and one of the greatest parts ever written. But for some reason, I really enjoyed being Roy Cohn. Oh, did you really? Oh, yes.

I liked, you know, manipulating people or trying to destroy them. Or it's like a total, I don't know. He was so confident and felt, you know, he was so in the right. Sure. About all these things that were reprehensible. Wow. But he was so brilliant, you know, if only it had been used for good rather than evil. Yeah. But no, it was invigorating.

But no, it was invigorating. I mean, tiring on a two-show day when you're talking about a three-and-a-half-hour and then a four-hour play, two plays. But it was the most satisfying way to do it, going on that journey. Especially the audience was so prepared and up for the experience of this communal experience of, you know, was so prepared and up for the experience of this, this communal experience of, you know, we'll go out for dinner in between and come back. Oh, I know. See the second half, which is certainly the way to do it. And it was, when you, by the time you get to the end of that experience,

it's, it's, it's so fulfilling. And, and, and some of the greatest scenes ever written, you know. Oh, yeah. So, no, that was that was just thrilling. I was just I felt like I'm the luckiest boy in all of Christmas. Stepping away from my conversation with Nathan Lane to send a shout out to Freshly. I love Freshly. Freshly. I like Freshly so much that I wrote a piece for The New Yorker called How to Say I Love You, Freshly.

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They're fresh. Lee! Right now, Freshly's offering our Working Out listeners, They're cooked. They're ready to eat. They're fresh. Lee! Right now, Freshly's offering our working out listeners $40 off your first two orders when you go to Freshly.com slash Burbiggs. That's Freshly.com slash B-I-R-B-I-G-S for $40 off your first two orders. And now, back to the show. So Nathan, this is this thing that we do on the show called the slow round. And it's a lot about sort of memories and things like that. One of the questions is, what's the hardest you've ever laughed? And I feel like I have distinct

memories of seeing you laugh particularly hard with Matthew Broderick. Oh, yes. Yes. No. Yes. Matthew is it's not it's not too dissimilar to George Burns and Jack Benny. Matthew can easily destroy me very easily. Yeah. And because he's so I mean, he is incredibly witty, but he's just his attitude is he has a very funny, subversive of course, you know, we became friends and bonded through this wild experience of doing that show, of doing the producers. And, you know, to go through that with someone, to be like part of the Beatles, whatever it was, the Hamilton of its day. Yeah, I mean, that show was so big. I mean, it was like, you know, one of the most Tonys of all time. And it was, you know, so prestigious and talk of the town.

And then I just love hearing you talk about how sort of silly it was between you and Matthew Broderick and how you'd goof around sort of on and off stage. You know, what he'll do is he, even though we're mic'd, he would talk to me under his breath. No, no. He would be playing the character and then sort of like a running DVD

commentary. He would do the line and then he would react. And under his breath, he would say, oh, someone's been working on their scenes. You've got to be kidding me. That's a new choice. It happens with any show. If something is successful, you know, even Groucho Marx talked about it in his famous Carnegie Hall concert when he did Animal Crackers. You know, in the beginning, people were laughing riotously at something. And then sort of three months, four months in, you know, you start to get more of the tourists. And so certain jokes don't land the same way.

And so, you know, Groucho would recite this insane poem that he had that used to kill. But then when the tourists came in, got nothing. Oh, that's fascinating. And then so in the producers, there was like a joke. The two rules, I would say that there were two rules. He said, Matthew would say, how much money do we put in as the producers? And I would sort of do a slip, a fall, and can come to him and say, Bloom, there are two rules to being a good producer.

One is never put your own money in the show. He would say, and two, and then I would have to lean into his ear and scream, never put your own money in the show. I't do it anymore I'm old I used to scream it at such a pitch oh my gosh so that used to get a hand and then two months in three months in dead silence so really yeah i would say i mean nothing so man so i would examine it and say am i doing something wrong is it too much am i do you know is it too much in the producers um so um i i like at one point i said let's try some reverb oh my god they did that I tried throwing it away I tried I tried everything

And it just wouldn't And the more I tried The harder he would laugh And then if he laughed I would go Oh that's so funny It's so tiring, eight shows a week And you know I have a certain amount of guilt.

People pay a lot of money and they don't want to see the Carol Burnett show, Tim Conway, Harvey Korman thing. But I would say it was always genuine. He truly makes me laugh. Yes, you're right. Harder than pretty much anybody. Yes, you're right. Harder than pretty much anybody. You know, we reference Mike Nichols a lot in my movie Don't Think Twice. And I always wonder, because he was obviously this legendary improviser, sketch comedian in terms of his roots. When you were working with him, was improv part of his process uh yes and no his process which if you read uh the

mark harris book which just came out uh which is great um yes comprehensive beautifully written uh and it really sort of gives you a very clear picture of his, his Mike's process on different projects with actors. And he certainly all his process was informed by the Compass Theater and Second City in Chicago, and then going to New York for a while and studying with Strasberg and then coming back and the work with Elaine, of that prepared him he didn't realize it at the time but he said when finally he was directing Barefoot in the Park he thought oh this is this is what I'm supposed to do wow I was preparing I didn't know it but I was preparing

to be a director um and even though you know when they were together elaine of course wanted to do something different every night and he he wanted to hone and refine what the you know these pieces that they had worked out so carefully and she would have thrown it all away and just started fresh and um so that was sort of their their dynamic he was he was sort of directing those scenes without without really knowing it he just sort of seemed bossy to her but so when we did that film that little film the birdcage applause if there's an audience here right now we we'd all applaud Nathan. I know. I'm glad. Thank God I made it. Out of 35 or so films, thank God I did that one.

No, he, obviously she was adapting, you know, the original French play and screenplay. Yes, La Cage aux Folles. He was, yes, La Cage aux Folles, but he was very protective of her and screenplay. Yes, La Cage aux Folles. Yes, La Cage aux Folles. But he was very protective of her and her adaptation. And we rehearsed it like a play. He did that very often, which is highly... I didn't know that.

He rehearsed it like a play. He did. It was highly unusual in film for a director to say, we'll have three weeks of rehearsal. Wow. So he directed, certainly that one was like a play. And he would say, feel free. I know you like to improvise and ad lib.

You know, he was mainly talking to Robert. And he said, feel free. And then we'll keep what's the best. And then, but then when we start shooting, we won't do any of that yeah because robin and i looked at each other like yeah okay um but uh and we were you know we were very well behaved i mean we did what was written but then he would he was very gracious and would say give us what he referred to as the wild take. Yes.

We could improvise an ad lib. So I was saying that he would fall in love with his cast. And like any great man, he had that ability to make you feel like the most important person in the world to him. And it was like a love affair. And so he was incredibly loving and supportive. But you also wanted to please Daddy because it was that part of him that was very intimidating that you were in awe of because he was Mike Nichols

and because of all he had done. That's what I was saying about you earlier. Oh, Jesus, no. But he, Mike, you know, came in and went out, always the smartest guy in the room. And, you know, had this miraculous wit, but also, you know, it could be lethal if he turned on somebody.

So you never wanted to get on the bad side of Mike. So as an example, this maybe came out of his improv roots. He would sometimes, he would feel like this is too, it's too worked out. You know, he wanted it, you know, what his big rule was, you know, we're obviously we're telling,

telling the story, but also this is now treat this like King Lear, you know, it's, and what would this be like if it happened in real life? Stepping away from my conversation with Nathan Lane to send a shout out to Helix Mattresses. We're thrilled to have the support of Helix Mattress here on Working It Out. In 2021, I've been sleeping on a Helix mattress for the past year. It's amazing.

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Helix is offering up to $200 off all mattress orders and two free pillows for our Working It Out listeners at helixsleep.com slash B-I-R-B-I-G-S. And now, back to the show. For me, the thing I was describing earlier when you presented my show was, I guess, what they call an inflection point in my life. Where everything in my life, when I think back is like before that and after that, because all of a sudden I had this show where every night it would just be, you know, it'd be Buck Henry would show up or Matthew Broderick or, you know, Andrea Martin, all these people. And you couldn't, I couldn't even believe it. My life before that was at Go Bananas. You know what I mean? I mean, I was at the Trump Casino, for God's sakes.

I was driving to colleges through mountains in the middle of the winter. And then all of a sudden, I was having all these luminaries in New York come see me. Did you have that? I feel like you had that a handful of times in your career and Birdcage was one of them, but you had it even before that. What do you think was the biggest one you ever had? Oh, well, my Broadway debut,

there was a little bit of that. It was George C. Scott who directed this revival of an old coward play called Present Laughter and starred in it. And so that was a big deal for me. Yeah. And it was a big success. revival of guys and dolls i did in 1992 the cherry zacks directed which is now kind of a beloved um revival and uh so that was and that really was a big hit and everyone came to see that and um you know certainly forum funny thing happened on the way to the forum yeah of course yeah but nothing nothing compared to the producers it was that was was like what you're talking about where the people walk through the door that you never

thought you'd ever meet you know like but the people i love were like harvey corman yes you know who will come back or uh and say how much they love b b Arthur. Oh, I love that. Or, I mean, everybody. Kofi Annan. Wow. Barbara Walters. Oh, my gosh. Alan Greenspan.

Oh, my gosh. Al Gore. No, everyone in the world saw the producers. But, yeah, those kind of comedy legends who came, you know, when you meet them, it's, you know. That's special treatment. That is special treatment. Yeah. Those moments you never forget.

You know, like Carol Burnett. Oh, my God. Saying, coming back and getting very emotional after the producers. Saying it reminded her of what broadway used to be like and oh it was sort of you know just like a big party and um yeah it's extraordinary when you when you get to meet those people and wow that's uh wow um so one of the other questions that we ask is uh in the slow round is, do you have a memory on a loop from your childhood that you think about sometimes, but you, but it's

not necessarily even a story. A memory on a loop. Well, good, good or bad. Cause I have both. No, anything. I was in a spelling bee And And I You know It's so long ago

And I was just a kid And I Apparently when I spelled a word correctly And then I exited Like Jackie Gleason Like away we go Like that

And You know got a huge laugh And got a mention in the local paper. That's incredible. Nobody gets press from the spelling bee. That's amazing. You know... What's on the bad end of the spectrum?

I've heard you mention it in interviews before, but I would guess the stuff with your mom. Oh, yeah. Well, you know, she had a hard life. You know, she was trying to – my father was an alcoholic. He died when I was 11. He essentially drank himself to death. So there's a lot of sad memories of that.

But, you know, and then she was trying to raise three children on her own and she was, she was working and, and the, and my, her mother, my grandmother, you know, was helping her, but yeah, she, eventually he died and then her mother died and then she kind of had a breakdown and, and it wasn't until like five years later, it was diagnosed as manic then what was called manic depression and now bipolar. But yeah, it was for a childhood. It was, you know, believe me, there were worse childhoods, but it was harrowing to watch your,

you know, your, your parent go through that after having watched your other parent drink himself to death yeah yeah i can only imagine um so uh so one of the things we talk about in the slow round is is about advice and the you gave me this piece of advice when i made sleepwalk with me into a film which ended up being a huge part of the editing process and we quoted you in the edit quite a bit, which is that when you read the script adaptation of the show, you said to me, because you don't mince words, Nathan Lane does not mince words. You said, this feels like an indie film adaptation of a really special play and it doesn't feel like you it doesn't feel like your your your you it's not it doesn't feel special the way the play does

and i think you should focus on how can we make it special in its own way, in its own cinematic way. And so when we were making it in the edit, we added all those monologues where I'm driving and I'm looking at the camera and I'm monologuing the camera. That was just me and a camera operator in the middle of the editing process driving driving around New York State and Connecticut, shooting off footage, and then dropping it into the footage that we had. And it became this sort of amalgam thing, which was following your note, which is like essentially make it your own.

And the thing I was curious about is like, what is the piece of advice that you received in your career from someone that was maybe, you know, not, you know, hard to hear at the time, but the person was right? Well, I was, I became close friends with a British playwright named Simon Gray, a rather underrated playwright, famous for, especially with his collaborations with Alan Bates. They did a play called Butley, which I eventually did on Broadway in a revival, but it was sort of definitive with Alan Bates and that sort of established Simon. But he wrote a lot of plays, a wonderful play, Quartermain's Terms. Also, he wrote these

diaries, brilliant, hilarious. He was incredibly witty. And I did a play of his called The Common Pursuit, which was done in London. And then we did it, I did it first at the Long Wharf Theater in New Haven, and then I did it in LA. It was just an accident, and I wound up doing it there, and then eventually it was done off-Broadway. But when we were in New Haven, and Simon Gray and I were drinking heavily, and we were at a bar, and he said to me, And he said to me, you know, Nathan, I think you could be a great comedian or a great actor. Oh.

And he said, I think you should become a great actor. Oh. That is fascinating um so I you know I knew what he was talking about and um

but and I said yeah I know what you mean and um in other words he was saying that you were maybe playing to the crowd

a little bit on on jokes and tipping over the story potentially perhaps stepping away from my conversation with nathan lane to send a shout out to MeUndies. MeUndies underwear is my favorite underwear, and I didn't have one. I didn't have one before. I had no favorite underwear. I was just a man in

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That's MeUndies.com slash Burbigs. And now, back to the show. for bigs and now back to the show so part of the show is i i work out uh new bits since i don't have an audience new stories we we help you write material yeah theoretically that's the idea the show business version of tom sawyer getting his friends to paint the fence we'll use that we'll use that in the show description from now on uh that is hilarious but i thought that you might be able to help with this one because i feel like you and i have had conversations like this over the years um not about this specific story but which is so a few years ago i go to the to to my doctor and and to my doctor and he sends me a cardiologist.

And he basically says, like, you need to work out. You need to do cardio five days a week, whatever. And I was just like, that's not going to happen, but I'll give it a shot. One day I'm in an exercise class and my instructor, this woman, Sarah, was talking to some marathon runners that she runs with. And I thought, well, I'm not going to do that. But maybe I'll ask Sarah if I could hire her to teach me how to run. So for the next couple of weeks, Sarah took me on jogs over the Brooklyn Bridge and the Manhattan Bridge. And I thought, the only part I don't like is that it feels like I'm going to die every second that I'm running. So eventually, I get a little better. But at some point,

Sarah stopped returning my phone calls, and we've never spoken since. And I'm not saying I got dumped by my running coach, but I'm saying it's very possible I got dumped by my running coach. Like, it's almost like she originally saw me as a fixer-upper and then realized I was unfixable. There would be no fixing nor upping, just breaking and downing. It's like when someone looks at a beat-up house and goes, the bones are good. And then they realize the bones aren't even good.

Anyway, so now I was going running alone, rain or shine. And one night I'm jogging in pouring rain. I just so happened to be jogging by a puddle the size of a small river. I just so happen to be jogging by a puddle the size of a small river. And an SUV drives through it. And it came over me like a tidal wave, like in a movie or cartoon. And the SUV stopped. And then it went in reverse 10 feet, not to see if I was okay, reverse 10 feet, not to see if I was okay, just to laugh at me and stare and then drive away. Oh, it'd be good if your running coach was in the van.

And Sarah, it was Sarah in the SUV. That's right. Some sort of Bond villain moment of rolling the window down and laughing and then driving away. Stroking a cat. Yes. They're stroking a cat. That's very funny. Something that makes them even more villainous than they are. And I don't think they meant to splash me in the first place, but once they did, Nathan, I think they thought they had hit the jackpot. They stayed there for about 15 seconds, staring and laughing as though they had won a prize. Wow. And then they drove away when they realized that I wasn't a modern day middle aged leprechaun.

Modern day middle aged leprechaun. Modern day, middle-aged leprechaun. Is this because of what you're wearing? Oh, no, it's actually not. Although that's sort of fun, is if I made it related to my outfit. Because, you know, I feel if you have the right, there's a reason why those businesses are so successful, Lululemon and all of that stuff. Yeah, sure.

You have the right outfit and, you know, and running shoes and so forth. Yes, yes. It makes you feel, it's like an actor getting the right costume. That's right. You have to feel the part because if you're in like if you're like me and you're like in the sweatpants you know you slept in and a and a t-shirt or something it's it's like it doesn't it doesn't live up to um the your your your goals your dreams um but if you if perhaps you know it's it that um i i don't know what exactly

transpired between you and uh this woman would you sense any sexual tension was it was there i don't think so i i don't think so i think genuinely she thought she could save me well uh yeah and uh and then she just she just stopped returning your calls yeah she just ghosted me it was a it was a fade away it was a if i'm getting specific it was a fade away a fade away well yeah or maybe there's something in uh you know that you started stalking your your running oh my god right well there is something to like at what point when you're you're contacting someone i will not be ignored exactly exactly you just keep showing up in in in in leotards and and tank tops with i think that's very funny i think also like the thing you're saying about my outfit is true. Like I do like, I have the reflective shoes and I have the, yeah, I do. I do. I have, I have the sort of

the run. I go to the running, I think it's called like the runner's shop or the runner's store. And I do, I get the runner's outfit. And I think you're right. That could make the leprechaun payoff be stronger. When I, uh, when I'm going, I went into Lululemon once, and then I looked at the, I had shame. I just had body shame, age shame, and I just, I wound up buying a hat and a pair of socks. But I, because I thought, oh my God, you really have to be in shape to wear those clothes.

Yes, yes. And then the only way to get be in shape to wear those clothes. Yes, yes. And then the only way to get in shape is to wear those clothes and actually do something. So this is just never going to happen. Well, you and I have this thing in common from years ago. I remember we talked about this because you were getting in shape for a show. And you would sort of entertain your trainer, which would sort of put off the training. Oh, totally.

I do this a lot. I do this, I did that with therapists. I would be so entertaining, and then we wouldn't talk about anything serious. I would, you know, even when I went with, when Devlin and I went to counseling, I would, I would like to try to make the therapist like me better. Like you more. Yeah, sure.

I would talk about show busy things. Oh gosh. You know? Yeah. No. And so, yes, the trainer, I would definitely do my, I do everything to distract them when I would meet them at the gym. And then we said, talk about movies. Yes, yes.

Anything to avoid getting on a bike. Yes. Yeah. I wrote this one last one, which is, I feel like I'm getting older. This is, of course, what my whole next show is about. It's called YMCA Pool. And it's all about hitting middle age. I'm getting older and my health isn't trending upward. It's not like those ads for lotion where the person is like, I'm getting older, but I feel younger. I'm getting older and I feel older. The lotions aren't working. older the lotions aren't working i i'm like if gollum used lotion because i i bet gollum's friends are like hey gollum have you tried any lotions and he's like i've tried the lotion i don't do to call him. What lotion did you

get, Burt's Bees? And they're like, well, try ponds. And he's like, swamp? And they're like, no ponds. And he's like, this is my precious lotion. Good.

It's sort of, your golem is somewhere between Carol Kane and ruth gordon i like it um golem you know you can't go wrong with a golem bit the final thing that we do is we uh i donate to a non-profit nonprofit of your choice. I would just say Broadway Cares. Great. Yeah. That's great. I did an event recently

where some of the Broadway Cares folks were there as well. And it was for the Center Theater Group. And I know they're trying to raise a lot of money right now. It's a tremendous organization. Yeah. I will donate to them. And we'll put the link to them in the show notes. And they do an amazing amount of great work.

Oh, yes. Oh, no. It's always known as the philanthropic heart of Broadway. But they do so many. There's so many other things, food banks and clinics and the women's, Phyllis Newman's Women's Health Initiative for Breast Cancer, and it goes on and on and on. And now their COVID relief fund, it's extraordinary the amount of money that they've given away in grants and so forth. And so it's not just Broadway Care's Equity Fights AIDS.

It's they're fighting many, many things and winning. Yes. Well, thank you, Nathan. I can't thank you enough for everything that you've been so generous about in my career, in my life, in my personal life. It's my pleasure. It's nice to get to spend a little time with you.

Me too. And give my love to Jen and Una. And I love you. And, you know, I wish you all the best. I love you too, Nathan. Working it out, because it's not done. Working it out, because there's no hope. Wow.

That was Nathan Lane. I just so appreciate all of his guidance and thoughts. Even that stuff about the running story, all of his notes, I've actually already started to make changes to explore different areas, which is exciting. So my thanks to Nathan Lane. Our producers of Working It Out are myself, along with Peter Salamone and Joseph Birbiglia, consulting producer Seth Barish, sound mix by Kate Balinski, assistant editor Mabel Lewis. Special thanks to Mike Insiglieri, Mike Berkowitz, Thank you. local bookstore. As always, a special thanks to my daughter, Una, who created this radio fort made of pillows. Thanks most of all to you who have listened. Tell your friends,

even tell your darn enemies, we are working it out.