Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 34. Aubrey Plaza: A Four-Quadrant Superstar

Episode Date: March 15, 2021

Aubrey Plaza is a beloved comedic actor for her role as April on Parks & Rec & many acclaimed indie films including "Black Bear" which she not only starred in but also produced. The two discuss their shared love of indie film, Aubrey’s gloriously awkward talk show appearances, & why she'd make the perfect Oscars host. We learn who makes Aubrey laugh, advice she got from Amy Poehler, & how having a stroke at age 19 put her life in perspective. All that plus new pizza jokes! https://hispanicfederation.org/

Wait, do I? I don't know my lines or anything. I hope I don't have to do more takes. I'm a one take wonder. I don't know. Okay, we'll see what happens, I guess. Hey, everybody. It is Mike. And we are back with an all new episode of Working It Out. Very exciting one today. Very different from the other episodes.

Quick note before we begin. We added two more virtual shows. These are of particular note. I keep getting people telling me on Instagram and Twitter comments to do a more internationally friendly time. And so we added on the 27th of March for the Worldwide Comedy Pizza Party, which is a virtual comedy show with all jokes about pizza. You get pizza where you are.

I eat pizza where I am. We have jokes about pizza. We added a 5 p.m. Eastern show, which means that if you're in California, you can watch it. And if you're in Europe, you can watch it. And then in other parts of the world, probably. So that's exciting. And the day later, Sunday at 9 p.m. Eastern,

we are doing our benefit show. All of the proceeds, 100% of the proceeds are going to go to food banks in Texas right now because Texas is obviously struggling and we want to support them. We have special guests. I'm hoping this comes through, but they said they would do it. Special guests on Sunday. Jimmy Kimmel, who is Jimmy Kimmel and has been a guest on this show before. As well as Chris Bianco, world famous pizza chef. So get your tickets to that. I mean, that's just outrageous. If that comes together, that's exciting. Tickets at Burbix.com. But

today's episode is one of a kind. It's an actor I've admired for a long time. From her roles in Parks and Rec to the movie Safety Not Guaranteed, as well as Funny People, as well as Ingrid Goes West and The Little Hours.

She's so excellent in so many independent films. And then this new movie that she made and she produced and starred in, it's called Black Bear, and I love it. I couldn't recommend it more highly. Seek it out. It's got all kinds of interesting twists and turns. I sort of, I don't know her. I sort of DM'd her about it and said,

if she wanted to come on the podcast, she could. She said, sure. She's filming a movie in Turkey. So we recorded an interview, and I didn't know what to expect. But we end up having a great chat, and I hope you enjoy it. The great Aubrey Plaza. I feel like you and I have been in the same room together a lot over the years,

and I don't think we've spoken. Nope, think so never i think i remember i think i remember yeah no i don't think we ever i know you are i know a lot about you but um same yeah no new york i got a lot of research um i was at for example i was at your premiere of um safety not guaranteedanteed at Sundance. No way. Yeah. That was crazy. That was a really crazy night. That was fun. Standing ovation. I was part of the standing ovation. Crazy.

Yeah. Man. I saw you at that. I saw you at that, I think, because in the hallway, I think right afterwards, they like skirted you out to another thing. And it was like, there was a lot of things going on. That was, you know, I will just say that was one of the craziest nights of my life

because I had not seen the film yet at all. Like that was my first time seeing it. Wow. Yes, and not only, I mean it was my first lead role, but not only that, the way that that movie ended was not the script at all. And maybe I'm insane, but I'm pretty sure that it was my idea to end the movie how it ends. I guarantee you I had a conversation with Colin Trevorrow, and maybe he thought I was joking, but I said, you know what should you know, what should really happen to this movie? You know, what should really happen is the time machine should work. That's how the movie should end because the audience will, will find hope in that. And

that's why people go to the movie theaters. And he was like, ha ha ha. I swear to God, they submit, they submitted the original version of the movie to Sundance. It still got in with the original bleak ending where the thing doesn't work and he gets arrested. And then Colin at Skywalker started experimenting with that idea, decided this is the way to go, got another $50,000 or whatever in post-production budget, and then did it. And then did it. No reshooting, nothing. All in post-production budget and then did it. And then did it. No reshooting, nothing. All in post. And then called me before the Sundance premiere, basically, and was like, teed it up for me

and was like, listen, you're going to be really happy with how this movie goes down. And I'm like, oh yeah? So then I watch it and I'm like, god damn. And then what? A couple months later, Spielberg calls him, and he's now directing fucking Jurassic World and everything. I'm like, where's my fucking Jurassic World? Yeah, where's your Jurassic World?

Remember when I told you that that was a good idea? Like, whatever, dude. But I love you, Colin. I'm not trying to call you out, but, like, come on. So you and I have a thing in common, clearly, which is we both love independent films. And the reason I can say that with some confidence is that you're, like, in a series of my favorite independent films,

and the recent one that I love is Black Bear, but, like, Safety Not Guaranteed, Ingrid Goes West, The To-Do List, Little Hours, which I know, like know your partner directed. Yeah. Can I say that? Am I allowed to say that? Yeah, of course.

We can cut it out. No, we've been together for like 20 years. It's good. It's fun. Okay. I love that movie, and my friend Kate Micucci's in it, and she's great too. Micucci.

She loves you. Funny people, obviously. And then all the way back to Mystery Team like i love like all the movies you're in but i know that you love independent films and the reason i know that is is is because they're so goddamn hard to make and so if you don't actually love them you don't do them no no they're no they're terrible they're traumatizing the the no everyone is saying although i would say that like i've had an act because right now i'm on a i don't know 50 million dollar budget movie that i'm currently shooting in this very moment and and i'm always blown away by how every set kind of has the same problems the same disasters like the same bullshit like and it's amazing to me because I'm like you don't need like this feels exactly like

all the indies but I mean of course there's like other shit that goes on and you know that that money brings and whatever but like just the shooting of it and all that stuff it's like shooting a movie is the set like we're just shooting yeah it's a disaster every time but it's it's such a man what a rush what a rush it's weird though because you have to love the movies themselves to do them because they're so goddamn hard and then you i mean you've hosted the indie spirit awards two years in a row and you make joke you make a lot of jokes about how like we make these great movies nobody sees them hi everybody welcome to the film independent spirit awards where we celebrate the movies that are too important to see.

The network's first choice to host was no one, but they're already booked for tomorrow. So you've got me. I was going back and I was trying to figure out with funny people, um, how, like whether you did stand up and it was like, Oh, you know, you,

you did stand up for the movie basically. Like you learn how to do stand up for the movie. And then I was like, and then I was like thinking like, will you do stand up again? And then I was like, Oh, well you sort of are because you're hosting like the indie spirit awards.

And that sort of is stand up in its own right. It's like, you know, you're doing 10 minutes at the top of both shows. And not only that, like last year's one, people should YouTube this. You do a musical number. Okay. First of all. And it's good. It's legitimately good.

It was okay. Okay. It was okay. I'd give it a, you know, six out of 10. But that was my first time doing stand-up in 10 years, something. Because I had to do, I went up at two clubs before the show, before the first time I hosted the Independent Spirit Awards two years ago. before the show, before the first time I hosted the Independent Spirit Awards two years ago, because Kroll and Mulaney, you know, because I was asking Kroll and Mulaney, like,

you know, what do you guys do? How do you prepare? Like, do you go up? Do you do the set? And they were like, absolutely. But you know, they're like the most stand-up-y of stand-ups. And so they were like, yes, definitely go and like try out your material. And I was like, fuck, I haven't done this in like 10 years. And that, it was so terrifying. I mean, then it was like doubly terrifying to do it in front of like Glenn Close and her dog. But like, it was, but it was actually more, it was actually more terrifying to go up at some random club to do it.

Cause I just was like, fuck, I really haven't done this in so long. And I remember it all came back to me and I was like, God, it's the hardest thing to do in the world. I give it the most credit, but it is also the most rewarding thing. And the scariest, it's just so crazy. Stand-up is so crazy. Oh, the other thing is like when you're hosting the Indie Spirit Awards twice in a row,

I was just thinking like, so I guess you'll host the Oscars. Are you going to host the Oscars? I would, but no one's knocking down my door. I don't know. I bet they'll call. I don't think I'm big enough for that. I don't think I'm like clean. I don't think I'm like,

I check off all the quadrants. I think I do. I think I'm a four quadrant superstar. But I don't think, I don't know. That's going to be the title of the the episode I think I'm a four quadrant superstar they would have to pair me with like you know someone Andy Samberg

I would say more like you know I don't know Donald Glover or like just someone that's like like oh yeah because you went to with you went to school with Donald because you got you you guys came up at the same time. Yeah, we did. We went to we went to we were in the same class at NYU together and then we did UCB

stuff together and then he cast me in my first movie ever. Mystery Team. Yeah. Mystery Team, which is amazing. And is real, by the way, really good for being like this no budget movie i wouldn't i don't even remember all i remember is fight uh fighting with dan ekman in the woods even though it was my first movie i remember like being like you think that's how a shot's put together and i was like oh my god really no i was an, I was an idiot. I was an idiot. But like, no, it was the best. He's great.

All of them are great. Are you a difficult actor? No. I'm a fucking blast. I am a blast. You can't wait to work with me. All I care about is the movie. Oh.

You have this thing that I've never been able to figure out, which is like, there's this clip reel that people should watch on YouTube also, which is of you on all these talk shows. And it's like 17 million views of back to back to back. Like you sort of like digging into the host in a way that sort of makes it uncomfortable with the host. And it's so funny. And I when I watch it, I'm like, oh, she's fearless. Like what?

Like, I wish I could be that fearless. And I'm like, where does it come from? OK, first of all, I'm never doing a talk show again. And I say, and I'm saying that now, mark my words. Because every time I do it, I'm like, all right, this time I'm just going to be likable. And then like literally the minute before I go on, I'm like, I'll just have a quick drink. Or, you know, or I don't know. I'll just have a quick drink. Or, you know, or I don't know. I'll just have a quick drink.

No, no. Okay. No, no, no, no, no, no. I don't do that. But no, I have. But I have done that. But I think, I don't know what it is. I swear to God, I black out every time.

I don't know. Fuck. This is, I told you this was going to happen. It's no big deal. No big deal. Okay, just give me one second. Just one second. Just keep rolling.

Keep rolling. Keep rolling. Fuck. Yeah. Just this was going to happen. It's no big deal. Just give me one second. Just keep rolling. Keep rolling. Keep rolling. Fuck. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Oh, dear. Sorry.

Just one second. No big deal at all. Don't worry about what's happening. Don't ask me questions. Nothing happened. Oh, my God. It's really... Was it food? Sure, yes.

Okay. No, it's really hard to get drugs here, but thank you so much. Just put them in a pile. No, we're good. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, no, I never saw you. No, we're good yeah thank you yeah no i never saw you um no we're good we're good i could get maybe arrested for making that joke so when is this gonna be released you want me to cut out no i don't know it's fine i can cut that out if you want i i don't really care

okay okay all right wait so we're talking about talk shows. Okay, so talk shows. The moment before you go on, you're like, you just throw the script out the window. I don't know. Like I said, I feel like I black out every time. I have no plan. There's just something about the pre-interview. Because you've done them, so you know. There's something about the pre-interview thing where they call you and they're like, they had that conversation and then they record it and then they're like, and then you said this and it is kind of like doing

standup where you're like trying to kind of hit the jokes or something, but there's just something so unnatural about it that I think I tend to like, I just act, I lash out. I don't know how to deal with it. But I honestly, to be, to be really sincere, like I, every time I do them, I'm so nervous. Like I'm so scared. I hate it. I hate it. And every time I do it, I'm like, I'm never doing this again. Why are you making me do? And then I'm like, I don't have to do this. It's like, I go down a shame spiral where I'm like, what am I doing? This isn't why I do anything. This is like bullshit.

And like, I'm like, you know, I just go like, it's so self-involved. But I just go into like, and then I think like my way to deal with that is to like, I don't know, just fuck it up. Or I don't know. Just to derail it. Derail it. Because that seems fun. It seems, it just seems more truthful. I'm like, if I can have a moment of, if I can just feel like this is, we're having an authentic moment.

Like we're actually like, even if it's awkward, I'll take the hit. I'm like, I'd rather humiliate um then um lose my dignity I don't know I get that I get that I mean like you and I have another thing in common you and I for having never met we have actually a bunch of stuff in common and I I hope that's not insulting maybe we should run away together I don't know yeah yeah yeah mean, maybe this is the beginning of a, what do they call that? Elopement. It's a Zoom rom-com. We could do this in a quarantine.

Stepping away from my conversation with Aubrey Plaza to send a shout out to our sponsor, Samuel Adams, one of our first sponsors way back last summer. They're doing this great thing. You know, I tried to raise money for waitstaff across the country, comedy clubs with Tip Your Waitstaff. They're doing a thing called the Restaurant Strong Fund. Obviously, so many industries are devastated by COVID-19 closures, but perhaps none as severely as the restaurant industry. Thankfully, Sam Adams has teamed up with the nonprofit Greg Hill Foundation to create the Restaurant Strong Fund. This is an exciting update. 7,384 grants to restaurant workers

with donations exceeding $8 million to donate to the Restaurant Strong Fund in support of these restaurant industry workers who need our help. Visit SamuelAdams.com. And now, back to the show. We have this thing in common. We both had medical issues when we were young.

Oh, really? Oh, really? I'm only saying this because you've said this in interviews. You had a stroke when you were 19. I had bladder cancer when I was 19. Oh, wow. And I'm convinced when people say, what do you think was your driving force to make it when you were younger?

Because like, you know, like I had like some success early in my career. And I think part of it was like, I was like, I might die. So I got to figure this out fast. I got to figure this out fast. Totally. Totally. It changes your perspective because you're like, oh, nothing matters. That's great. Great. Yeah.

Great. It could all end in a second. I literally had a stroke while I was talking about a Hilary Duff concert. I mean, literally just Hilary Duff stroke. Wow. I was fine. I didn't feel anything before that. I felt totally normal. It's like getting hit by a bus. It's just shit can happen. So, you know, what are we doing here? I don't know. Right.

It never goes. Your death isn't going to go how you plan it. I had that. I had that when, yeah, I had a bladder tumor when I was 19. I had that when, yeah, I had a bladder tumor when I was 19. And I went from being like, okay, I'm going to live until I'm whatever age, to being like, well, maybe I'll die next week. Wait, but did they tell you?

They didn't do the biopsy on the tumor. It took like a week to get the biopsy back. So if the biopsy had said, and it came back and said it was a malignant tumor, but that it hadn't spread. But if they came back and said it was a malignant tumor and it spread, it would have been like, oh, I'm done. Right, right. So you got to see, you were so close to that. Yeah, I understand that.

My mom said to me the other day on the phone, she goes, she goes, we're, because they're like on the phone she goes she goes we're because they're they're like moving and she goes we're going through our old papers and we found the pathology on your tumor and she said uh when the doctor gave us this he said uh put this in your glove compartment to remind you of how close it can always be. Okay. Yeah. Did you? No.

No. I don't even have it. I said to my mom, I said to my mom, like, can you send it to me? Like, I want it for my glove compartment. Wow. That's so, yeah, I just had a flash of my like mri of like the hole in my brain i'd remember that very clearly when i saw that and they said and then here's where the blood clot was just like a dark just a tiny dark hole just right in my left uh

my gosh temporal lobe and i was like well is that going to close up? And they were like, no. Once it's there, it's there. And you're just lucky that you're not paralyzed. What if a reviewer was like, Black Bear is mesmerizing. And I don't know what it is about Aubrey Plaza's performance. Maybe it's the hole in her brain. I feel like that's something I would say about myself it's just a hole in my brain i don't know your performance in that movie is so bananas it's like like for me it was like a

moment where i go it was like the end of the usual suspects where all of these things come together and i have flashes of all of aubrey's movies that she's made that I love, and I go, she's one of the greatest living actors. Oh, my God. It really is. It really is. Oh, my God. I'm serious.

That was my experience. You can't take that away from me. Okay, Mike, I won't. like i won't um when you the only thing the only reason i would tell you to not act in every movie which you are uh is um is that uh you should direct why why aren't you why are you not directing especially especially since in the indie spirit hosting you make all these jokes about how there's not enough women directors. Meanwhile, you got all the fucking gold waiting to deliver to the cast yourself. Look, I'm very close. I just think I've spent too many years being too precious about that situation.

I've always wanted to direct. I directed the Spirit Awards videos and those little things, which I'm very proud of. That's great. No, I'm going to direct. I've just been very much overthinking it and too precious about it. And it's like movies to me are like my life. Like they keep me alive, like since I was a child. And so like the thought of like making a film that's not the best movie that's ever been made is like why I'd kill myself.

Like I just kill myself like I just can't think of doing it in a way that won't I'll probably die at the end of directing my first movie I'll just like direct it and then just just drive right off the cliff I don't think that's a good outcome okay oh no you're right okay I take it, I take it back. I take it back. I'm just being, see, this is what I mean. I'm being like overdramatic. It's so stupid. I could literally direct, I could do a short film.

I'm going to direct something tonight. And I'm going to email it to you. I have a lot of ideas. I have a lot of ideas. No, okay. But to be totally like, that means a lot to me. Like, it really means a lot to me because it's not, you know, I don't know. You're just saying it based on I don't even know what,

but it does mean a lot to me, and it is something that I want to do. I'll tell you exactly what it's based on. When I directed Sleepwalk With Me and Don't Think Twice, and Sleepwalk With Me was super, super Twice. And Sleepwalk With Me was, it was super, super hard because directing a first feature is so hard because there's essentially no training. Even people who go to film school, they direct their first feature and they go like,

oh, I did not have any idea really what that was. Yeah. Like everybody says that. But what got me through was improv. And it was just improv skills just yes and yes and yes and like people coming up to being you know this costumer this cost me go uh yes and this you know this actor this actor yes and this thing and it's like that's all it is and you're such a great improviser and then you're so good with you know like like essentially like there's

i think there's a lot of stand-up in it too, I think there's a lot of stand up in it, too. Like, I think there's a lot of like, you're speaking to like, big groups of people all the time, you really have to be able to read a room. That's for sure. Like, you really have to be able to like, feel the vibe of the room and the vibe of the people. And like, to me, the best directors are the people that truly engage the crew, engage their actors and inspire them. Like they're not people that would get up there and bomb and be like, fuck you. Like those are people that suck. But I don't know. trying to think about today like why is it that why is it that uh like people like you and i like independent films so much as opposed to studio films and i think it's because it's the same

reason why i think you should direct because i think it's a singular vision i think in independent films you get more people going like even like your boyfriend like little hours is so clearly like such a weird movie right yeah it's so weird but like no studio would make that movie like that movie is so funny and so weird and when i watch it i'm like i mean the you know with independent films you go like, this movie could have flaws, this blah, blah, blah. But it feels like someone gave it everything they had. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you're seeing into someone's entire being. It's a total representation of the inside of someone, for sure.

I mean, I definitely think so. That's why studio movies and like really big movies, like it's really hard to make a, it's really hard to make a great, huge movie to have it be really great and huge at the same time because of that reason, because there's too many, there's just too many cooks in the kitchen, you know? There's too many cooks. Yeah. With Black Bear, I love this movie so much. And I think part of the reason why it's so hard to get independent films

out to people is because if I made Black Bear and I starred and produced in Black Bear like you did, I wouldn't know how to pitch it to people because I think everything you say gives away some piece of the experience of the movie.

So how do you pitch it to people? Like when you want people to see Black Bear, what do you say to them? Oh, I'm the worst person to ask. I say like, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's kind of like a psychological like horror movie about a, like a couple's worst nightmare. And then it be, and then it kind of like, I don't know. See, that's when I get, that's when I get stuck. I say I, my, my like thing that I've said on like talk shows, which is literally that it's like two nightmares come combined into one mega nightmare. At least that's, I only know the movie from my experience and that's how, that's how it felt to me. So it's hard for me to like describe it objectively. Like,

That's how it felt to me. So it's hard for me to describe it objectively. I don't know. It's a movie about the complications of making a movie with your intimate partner. I don't know. There's so many things you could say about it. Even that, I think, gives it away. Totally. It does. partner i don't know there's so many things to say about it even even that even that i think gives it away totally it does it's like my my pitch for it is and i talked to uh on the podcast recently i had frank oz and he directed this really great uh concert film called in and of

itself and with derek delgadio and it's on Hulu or whatever. And it's like really this beautiful theater piece that has elements of illusion and magic and storytelling and all these interesting things in a single story. No, thank you. Sorry. Literally just know they just come in and it's fine. Uh, so we were talking about, it's like, how do you sell, how do you sell a movie?

That's so great. And not without giving away the experience of it. And like, and, and I had this with don't think twice where like, where the trailer gave away that Keegan, Michael key gets cast on like SNL. And I'm like, and I look at the trailer i'm like

you got to be fucking kidding me that happens 30 minutes into the movie you're gonna give away the first 30 minutes of tension in a movie but but you're really up against it with people because they want to sell the movie and the only it's this conundrum of the only way to sell the movie is to give people a piece of the movie right to get to make them feel like they've already experienced it and that they liked it yeah it's yeah i know that's why yeah it's like that's i don't know but were you a part of that like process of making the trailer like did you watch it and then go like no i don't like that make it again or did they just do it and then go like here it is they did it they did it they showed it to us yeah there's always that thing in in show business where they go huh right like this yeah this is good right you know we love it now we we love we're we love it but do you right yeah they're like

there's something wrong with you if you don't right so they did that and then uh and then we were like this is not gonna work at all and then we sort of like well that's good you know there's an another big show business thing which is a a very common thing, which is you ever have this where they go, they go, this is the person who cuts the trailers for the Coen brothers. You don't think you're better than the Coen brothers, do you? And you're like, no, no, I would never. But, you know, and so you're like backed into this corner of like agreeing with something just because they're comparing you to someone who's better than you. They're just trying to put you in your place, Mike. Do not let them do that.

So this is a thing we do on Working It Out, which is just called the slow round. And it's like sort of memory prompts and things like that. And it's like one of them is based on seeing you host the Indie Spirit Awards. And I was like, oh, you can sing too. And so I was like, what other skill do you have that no one knows about? I can play the saxophone. Oh my gosh, really? I'm not that good, but I, you know, I played it on Conan once, actually. My friend's band was the guest band, and we all had grown up together since we were teenagers. It was like a totally insane night where we were like, can you fucking believe this? You are the musical and I'm the thing.

And remember when we were 15? Oh my gosh. And I played the saxophone with them. It was just one song. I don't know. It's boring. I can do that. I heard in another interview that you play basketball.

I play basketball. I'm very athletic. I took a golf lesson today. Did you really? Yeah. I'm very athletic. I took a golf lesson today. I think I'm more of a jock than anyone would ever think of me as, but I don't know what people think of me as. But I grew up very, like my dad kind of just raised me like his son. He was the coach of all my teams. And I was, you know, oh, here's one thing that nobody knows about me that sometimes I forget. When I was really young, I think probably around seven to ten, I competed in Irish dancing competitions.

Oh, my gosh. Wow. That's huge. Uh-huh. Which is so funny because I forget that. And then sometimes I'll have this flash of these leprechauns that used to be at the feshes. That's what they would call it. The Irish dancing competitions were called feshes.

You would go. There'd be these scary leprechaun guys. And I'd be dressed in those. They were dresses that you had to wear, the traditional, you know, river dance. So is your mom or dad Irish? Is that why you got into that? So my mom is Irish,

but she was adopted by a super, super Irish couple. And then, you know, so I do Irish dancing and then I'd go into my dad's family's Puerto Rican. So then, you know, so I do Irish dancing, then I go into my dad's family's Puerto Rican. So then, you know, I'd be going with them and they'd be like, move your hips, you know, salsa dancing in the kitchen. And I wouldn't move my arms. And I think actually, psychologically, it has something to do

with what's wrong with me because I'm like, it's like, you know, those are two very different styles of dance. Right. It's like you try to do Puerto Rican dance and you try to do Irish step dancingican dance and you try to do irish step dancing you have a stroke exactly you have a hole it creates a hole in your brain it literally stroked me out i stroked out oh my god yeah it didn't compute what what's like the what's the best piece of advice anyone's ever given you that you used that like what that that worked like a piece of advice where you like still think about it today

uh amy poehler i feel like amy who it was a huge like mentor for me still is she's like my big sister or something she I feel like she taught me the the like power of no and the skill of of of saying no to things and and that to me always sticks me I literally still think like well what would what would Amy do and like how would she feel about this because you know, there's like so many situations where you just, I had that like kind of codependent kind of like thing where I'm like, I have to, I can't miss out on the, or like I have to say yes, or I have to do what they want me to do, or I have to like, whatever. And then like a lot of times I just try to think of like, what would Amy do? And then I'm like, Amy wouldn't give a shit. She'd be no and then she like wouldn't go or she

wouldn't do it and then she would end up getting what she wanted anyway because that's what usually happens when you say no you say no and then you end up like actually so I don't know that's maybe like a more like worky answer but no no that's a good answer I think that's just across the board in life

yeah like just say no like you don't have to do any like just yeah yeah don't get caught up in other people's expectations and desires for you it's like keep it lock it down i have that like with when people ask me for advice, it's similar, which is I go do what you love and not what you like. Because I feel like we get we all get stuck in things that we're like, yeah, like that. And then you're in it and you're like, I'm tired. Yeah. Like, why am I really like, why am I doing this? Yeah.

And, you know, when you love something, it's like you don't even think about it because you just love it and you're happy do you have a memory on a loop that you think about sometimes but it's not part of a story it's just like a thing from your childhood that you think about I have like a loop memory

of being barefoot and running around the grass of the community pool that I used to go to in Delaware, which was called Shellcrest Swimming Pool. And it was like, I guess, where I spent all my summers as a kid because I think that's what you do. You take your kid to the community pool and getting stung by bees because it was just constantly just running around in the grass and like that feeling of just like getting stung by bees and then having like popsicles like dripping down your hand. Oh my gosh, I love that. Pool. Yeah, like community pool. My gosh. Loops. Oh my gosh, I love that. And I have a lot of like pool, yeah, like community pool loops. Like I don't know why I think about the bees and I think about stepping on bees.

It's so funny because my next show that I'm developing for whatever, off-Broadway, Broadway, whatever it ends up being, is called YMCA Pool. Because my most evocative memory has to do with going as a child over and over again to YMCA pool. And actually like, the whole show is about this metaphor of hitting middle age and realizing like this place that I, I vowed to never return to. Cause I was like, I'm never going back to the YMCA pool. I went to nursery school there, whatever. And then here I am, I'm like 40 years old. And I'm like, I have to go back to the YMCA pool because my doctor is like, it's a safe exercise and you need to do, you need to do exercise. You need to swim. Yeah. And so like, yeah,

the pool thing, it's super evocative. Like I used to go to the YMCA pool as a kid. And then same thing, like I would, we'd go to this place called North court, uh, in Massachusetts. And it was just like, it was very like seventies, eighties. Like it was a commune of people who shared like these tennis courts in a swimming pool. And we would go and like for hours. And you know what's so funny is like so different from the way people raise their children today, including my own daughter. Which is like, I remember just sitting in the woods next to a tennis court, just watching my parents play tennis for hours.

For hours. Like no activity. Like just like Mike, just like Mike, like sit there and just figure out what you're going to do. Honestly, that's why you are so great. Like that is why. That's a very Danish parenting method, by the way. I've read some books on Danish parenting and they do that. They believe in just putting their kid in a park or whatever and not supervise and just going, be bored. Oh, that's interesting.

Anyway, by accident, you got Danish parented, I guess. You got Danish parented! That's your new prank show? That's like the, oh, God, you know the danish people are so happy that i wish i got danish parented maybe that's a it's a it's a prank show called danish danish parented and you take strangers children and you put them in a field and you say you figure it out and five hours later you show up with your camera crew and you go you got davis yeah and then it's like um seven up or whatever and then like in like 30 years the person's like a doctor that like fixed covet or whatever and they're like everyone nailing it these people

i'm gonna i'm gonna people make fun of me because how often i reference documentaries on this podcast but uh aubrey's referencing seven up the documentary it's a british documentary if you People make fun of me because of how often I reference documentaries on this podcast. But Aubrey's referencing 7 Up, the documentary. It's a British documentary. If you haven't seen it, there's like 10 of them. There's like 7 Up and like 14 Up. I think they do it like every seven years. Every seven years, I think. And then like the last one was I think 56 Up, if I'm not mistaken.

And it was so good. I saw it at the IFC Center. I have not seen that. I need to see that. It's devastating because you watch people age and you realize when you watch it that you're going to age. And that life isn't fair. And it's not going to go like you thought.

That's my takeaway from that movie. But I highly recommend it. That documentary series, it's profound. I think it's very profound. What are your favorite documentaries? Favorite documentary... My quintessential favorite documentary, and it's so dark, is Capturing the freedmans yeah that was

great just because because if people haven't seen i don't want to give it away but it's like it's a movie that starts it starts about one thing because the documentary intended to make something about one thing and then by the end it's about a completely different thing and when i say completely i mean i'm i mean it's not the same movie practically i mean it's it's it and uh and to me and maybe you could speak to this in terms of like you know producing and creating things but it's like to me that's like the level when we talk about like directing and the the level of improv skill that goes into directing that's the flexibility i think you have to have as a creator of like, you know, this might be this,

but then it actually might be this other thing that I don't realize yet. Always. That is the number one thing that first-time directors fuck up on. They don't realize that the movie is a living, breathing thing. You have to feed it and care for it

and let it grow and let it evolve like ingrid goes west was like again oh my gosh not the scripts like we would be we would you have to pay attention to what's going on when you're shooting and go like you know what like that scene doesn't work anymore because this is happening now so now we have to adjust and people that are just super controlling and can't do that or are afraid to do that or won't whatever like the movie can be good it won't be great it's like the movies that are great are movies that have evolved stepping away from my conversation with Aubrey Plaza to send a shout out to an amazing hot sauce called Truff. Truff is a luxury hot sauce that I love.

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truff.com, T-R-U-F-F.com. Shop truff.com and use promo code BRVIGS on their site, truff.com, T-R-U-F-F.com. Shop truff.com and use promo code BRVIGS. And now, back to the show. What's the hardest you've ever laughed with? Like, is there, like, friends or family members who, like, make you laugh harder than anybody yes um well I mean I have a lot of funny characters in my family but I have a friend named I think I literally laugh when I just say her name. I have a friend that I grew up with named Cassie Collins,

who I'm still friends with. And she was like my best friend in middle school. And she was really cool when I was in middle school. And she was kind of bad. And we would smoke cigarettes in the woods and set things on fire in the woods and stuff. I used to do that. Yeah. Just put a lighter to a branch and be like, fuck you.

Like, whatever. But she made me laugh so hard once that I threw up. And this wasn't that long ago. It was a couple years ago. Oh, my gosh. And I was at Umami Burger. Wow. And I don't, fuck, I can't remember what she said to me,

but she does this thing to me. And we used to do it a lot when we were in school. And we went to an all-girls Catholic school. Yeah. And so we'd be, like, in chapel services a lot and stuff like that. And she would, like, lean over to me and be like, she'd be like, imagine Mrs. Sherman crashing through the stained glass window

wearing an old-timey pilot outfit. Like our English teacher or something. And like, just dumb stuff. Like she'd be like, imagine Steve Buscemi, like, riding on a broom. Just picture it right now. And she still does it to me. Like, as adults. That's amazing.

That's a great, great premise for how to make someone laugh. Yeah. Just make, use your imagination, I guess. Back to the basics. We just think about things. It sounds like things it sounds like it sounds like you got Danish parented

yes did no I didn't did I? maybe I did I think you did I think I did you know what's so funny

I think your thing with Cassie is like reminds me of this thing that my wife makes fun of me about a lot which is like I'll be like i'll reference my childhood best friend michael kavanaugh who we also went to catholic school

like a lot i'd be like well michael kavanaugh was actually a better dribbler than i was in soccer and blah blah blah like as though anyone gives a shit at all but like similarly similarly like there's something about childhood friends that i think he and I can make each other laugh like no other. And it's like there's something about that. Cassie like destroys me like I can't even deal with it. Like and and no one really understands what like Jeff is just like I literally just blank stare. Like I don't know what you guys, like what's going on. But it's like, I'll cry.

I threw up outside of Umami Burger because she said something about Sibu Shemi again. Like, I don't know what her thing is. She said, I don't know what it was, but I started choking because I was laughing. I choke on my own spit and then I barfed. Like I barfed in a plant. so that was like a first for me and that's the ad for this episode of this podcast um Maricar has this great book art of memoir

and it's just about writing autobiographical work and and she's always people, what do people like and dislike most about you? I think people like, I don't know. It's a hard one. I think the people that are in my world, like my circle, I think people like that I am caring, that I care about them. Is that a thing? That's right. I think that's a thing, yeah. I think we're going to count that.

We're going to count that. Let me go to the other one. The other one's easier. People don't like that i can be flaky like i would say that sometimes i can be kind of wishy-washy flaky you know cancel-y canceling canceling yeah like you sometimes um you just bail you bail on people. I shift gears. I would say also one thing that people like about me is that I'm loyal. I'm loyal and I—

I love that it took you 15 minutes to say the word loyal. Okay, this is like—I have a lot of friends that I've, my friends are friends that I've known forever and they're still my friends. You know, like, just like straight up. I don't. That's huge. I don't know. That's a hugely positive quality.

Yeah. I really stick with it. I stick with people and I don't. Yeah. I don't think I've changed really that much. Maybe that's when people like. I don't... Yeah. I don't... I haven't... I don't think I've changed that... Really that much. Maybe that's... When people like... I think that's great.

That's a great answer. I'm sure there's a lot of things people don't like about me too. But why do you think you... Why do you think you're flake sometimes? I think I just... I think because I have a... Sometimes have a hard... I have commitment...

You know? issues maybe sometimes. It's like funny because if someone does it to me, like people that cancel on me or that bail on me or flake out on me, like I can't remember a single time that I've ever been mad at someone for that, ever. It's actually this weird thing where if someone does it to me, I'm like, yes, because like, then I don't have to go or do this other thing. And I think, I think I'm very, not to be like, you know, astrological about it, but I do feel like I am true to my cancer self in that like I think actually like hibernating and staying inside and not, you know, going out there is actually like what my insides really want.

Because I think I'm a very, very sensitive person. So I get really overwhelmed. But then to deal with it, I think I just, I zorp into like another person and I go like, I'm now confident. But I think I actually am not. And I think actually I'm pretty shy as a person. And so like, I think sometimes I just get scared and sometimes I just decide, I get freaked out or I just go like, I just can't, I just can't go through with things sometimes. I don't know. Because I don't have an audience to perform in front of, I just work things out with other comedians and friends who I think are really funny.

And so I'm just going to run bits by you, but they don't have to, you don't have to laugh or enjoy them. Or even like, you could be critical. You could like figure you'd be like, that's stupid or that's not going to work. Or maybe you should try something else. Like try,

try to do your accent again. Um, uh, so I wrote this. So the show, like, like I said, I've been working on the show about the YMCA pool.

And so I say I've been actively avoiding the YMCA pool since I was seven years old. When I was four, and this is true, my mom took me into the women's locker room at the YMCA. And I had never seen a vagina before. And then I saw 100 vaginas. And when I was five, she sent me into the men's locker room. And the only thing more shocking than 100 vaginas is 100 penises at eye level. And the point is, I just never wanted to go back to the YMCA.

Like, I just, I don't know if it was the locker room incident or the chlorine you can smell from 10 miles away or the half blown up basketballs or the snack machine room with a coffee maker that also makes soup what about the soupy like moist damp bathroom floors that's what i always remember from community pools is like going in there and then they had that like weird grate on it that's supposed to like filter the wet and then be like a thing disgusting that sits barefoot on a bathroom floor and the pool i don't want to go back there yeah you know what's so funny is i said to uh my friend esty i was telling her that i was going to the YMCA pool and she was like, wear flip flops.

Yes. And she was like, you get fungus. She was like, you get fungus that goes through in your skin, like through your toes. And I'm just like, oh, God, that sounds awful. I definitely wasn't wearing flip flops when I was going to the community pool. I'll tell you that much. Same, same. So then I, so then I wrote a couple bits about signs at the YMCA pool. Cause I think that signs could be a thematic, a thematic thing that runs through. And one of the signs at the pool says,

swim attire must be modest and clean. And I thought, oh, well, it's modest, but it may not be clean. Laundry day is Tuesday. And then it says, obey the lifeguard at all times. And I was like, at all times? Because I've heard some stories. At all times? You mean like tonight? Like when I'm, before I go to bed? And then there's just a couple more.

I go, and there's a sign that says, strong swimmers, and then, uh, there's a, there's just a couple more. I go, uh, and there's a sign that says strong swimmers, confident kids, which is probably true, but I'd appreciate a sign that says weak swimmers will do your taxes when they're adults. And then I, I have one last one, which is, uh, this is sort of a short one, which is like, I've started in, in middle age, I've started getting facials like every couple of months because I have adult acne. Good for you. Last year, my facialist said to me, she's like, you look you look better than before. Like she's got sort of an Eastern European accent that I don't do that well. And I go, thanks.

Like my skin? And she goes, no, you lost weight. You used to be pizza boy. No. And she had to search for the word. And that was the part I found insulting. Because she was like, what is it? She's like

you used to be like you know sometimes you blurt something out and you're like ah I shouldn't have called him pizza boy I knew I shouldn't have said pizza boy but this was more like ah wait for it wait for it let's get the exact right word uh pizza boy and then I thought and then I

thought like has everyone been calling me pizza boy behind my back for 10 years? Like, to be clear, she didn't say Pizza Man. Pizza Man is a dignified profession where you deliver pizzas. Pizza Boy eats pizza and has acne. Mm-hmm. Love it. Gold.

Yes, it's nice, right? There's something there. Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm. Well, that's helpful to know the and then i have one other pizza bit which is i i'm obsessed with pizza i'm i'm i'm actually literally doing a virtual comedy show uh in in like a week from now that is all pizza jokes and i'm not making this up it's all pizza jokes my agent thinks i not making this up. It's all pizza jokes. My agent thinks I'm insane, and I may be. He's like, Mike, I don't know why you're doing this.

And I'm like, because I love pizza? You're like, I'm pizza boy. Everybody knows that. So the last thing we do in the show is really quick. I donate to a nonprofit that you think is doing a good job, and then we post it in the show notes. I love that. It's so cool that you do that.

I was going to pick the Hispanic Federation, which is a nonprofit organization that I worked with in Puerto Rico. Oh, that's great. For disaster relief, I went to Puerto Rico with them and they, they were so awesome. They're based in New York. They're fucking great. And they, um, they're, I think one of the best, like, you know, Latinx, like Hispanic or nonprofit organizations out there because they're re they have so many connections to other like grassroots organizations in latino communities and um and so they really uh you really see where your money goes it's like they

are in the communities they have they have so many different programs they're they're just killing they're crushing it in that game that's amazing and they're really i'm so glad to know about i'm so glad to know about that. Yeah. And I'm so glad to know that you're involved with that. And I will donate and I will put the link in the show notes for people to donate. And I'm so glad we did this. I hope that I didn't overstep by asking crazy things.

No, you didn't. No, I just really need to go to therapy. And we know this. We know this. We know. That's going to do it for another episode of working it out man that Aubrey Plaza

is one of a kind I uh I laughed very very hard I don't know if you could tell how hard I was laughing and uh watch that movie Black Bear dig that one up wherever you can

find it cause man that's a that's a really really cool indie film our producers of working it out are myself along with peter salamone and joseph berbiglia consulting producer seth bearish sound mix by kate belinsky associate producer mabel lewis special thanks to my consigliere mike berkowitz as, as well as Marissa Hurwitz and Josh Upfall. Special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers for their music. As always, a special thanks to my wife, the great J. Hope Stein. Our book, The New One, is at your local bookstore, which you should be supporting.

And if you're enjoying the book, write a review. We're the thing of the stars and the thing of the... As always, a special thanks to my daughter, Una, who created this radio fort. Thanks most of all to you who have listened. Tell your friends. Tell your enemies. We're working it out.

See you next time, everybody.