Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 40. Aisling Bea: The Right Amount of a Bit Much

Episode Date: May 10, 2021

Hey everybody, it's Mike and we are back with a new episode of Working It Out. So excited about our guest today, Aisling B. A couple exciting notes. I have some outdoor shows in New Jersey and Pennsylvania. Edentown, New Jersey. The Count Basie is doing a series called Concerts on the Green, safely distanced outdoor shows.

I'm also performing at Steel Stacks Outdoors in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. Also Cape Cod, Melody Tent, where I first saw stand-up comedy in August. And then my fall tour dates are back on from spring 2020

to fall 2021. We've, yeah, it's been quite a trip, but I think this fall those shows are on. All of that information is on Burbigs.com and sign up for the mailing list. The mailing list is the most reliable way to get

things and I won't bug you with extra emails. But today we have Aisling B. Aisling B you might recognize from a million things. She's a comedian, actor, writer,

is on the Netflix series with Paul Rudd called Living With Yourself. She has her own Netflix comedy special. She created a series called This Way Up that won a BAFTA

award for breakthrough talent. She's really a wildly talented person. She is originally from Ireland, now lives and works in London. I think it's a particularly interesting episode because there's a lot of working out that happens in real time.

There's a lot of collaboration that may lead to something new down the road. So I hope you enjoy my conversation with Aisling B. So I've been watching your series, which in America is on Hulu, This Way Up, and I love it. And I'm sure some of it is autobiographical and some of it is fictional I was curious particularly because there's a psychic whether or not

you're someone who enjoys psychics goes to psychics quite regularly it started off as like once a year and then now it's like during the lockdown oh I was like dropping some hard cash um as I always like to say they saw me coming but yeah I think there's

something about and maybe you have this as well and actually this is ironically something I've been trying to work out for stand-up so it's very handy is that like when you grow up in a catholic environment or any sort of high religious environment and then you go through your late teens 20s and you shake it all off and you're like I don't believe in that anymore that's not me that a lot it's just a church it's just a body of people it's just a story that a little da and you know what I'm going to do instead I'm just going to be really atheist I'm going to go straight away from that no look a crystal maybe I'll leave a crystal in my pocket as i go on stage you know what that's not bad look actually maybe i'll have three crystals for different things and actually i'll set up a little altar in my house and actually just every time before i go

to do stand-up i'll just have a little prayer at the altar not so many prayers like getting in touch with myself next thing you know you're 37 you're back in the fucking game and the magic never leaves you it there's if you're indoctrinated into the belief that there's magic early and i don't just mean religion i mean santa claus yeah doesn't it's like you have to convince yourself despite all of the adults you've ever been around and the system and the government telling you otherwise so technically it's matter to believe that there isn't any magic. That is quite a monologue. Is that the monologue?

Because it's great. No, it's me talking to you. Unfortunately, that's one of my worst traits is sometimes people think I'm on a monologue. I'm like, no, this is a conversation. This is why it takes me so long to... That's a riot. But that is the...

Yeah, there's a definite... And think it's i think it's arrogant for us to believe i do believe that a lot of the things that we call wizardry now will be explicable through science in like 20 years like even psychics like the ability to be intuitive like everything you do like why do gigs or shows not work as well in this format as opposed to when you're live on stage why what is that feeling you get between an audience now we know there's like heightened dopamine but there's something there there's an energy and we use it for work yeah we go okay we've just done a take of a scene let's do another why we said the exact same words because the feeling will be different this time or i've got a feeling and i don't think i did it right in my eyes can i go again

or or the rhythm of the comedy won't make people laugh and i know there'll be a slight difference and that will be there and that means we're more intuitive about certain types of things so who's to say someone can't look at you and predict energies that might happen or something coming towards you and it might seem silly now but um i think it's kind of ignorant of us to believe that there isn't a deeper connection within people i mean look at how lockdown has worked that you can feel a general depression in people or an anger in people or that you can stoke people up and yes it's through kind of imagery and facts and the internet but it's also something else like what what is it um and

it can't be weighed or it can't be sort of shown but i do i sort of believe and it's nicer to believe i think for a long time i was you you know the bits that are the business of religion that are the dirty cold hard awful businesses in the same way you know that about going to a coffee shop that's a big chain but the sitting around with people in a big chain coffee shop is the lovely bit of it and you're like oh god okay can we just focus on that and community and connection and a belief in something bigger than ourselves to make ourselves less solipsistic and egotistical i think there's something that's so deeply human about that yeah that is really understandable and when we lose it we lose more than we think and essentially going to church which i don't do like this is not me it sounds like i'm doing the

big push for religion guys but i'm not but like i was talking to someone today about how in the pandemic we've lost meeting up with you know people you only half care about you hope you're doing well but if you never see them again like meh yeah but actually they're really important and i suppose coming to churches or connections forces you to be with different people of different age groups people uh who you wouldn't normally get along with and they might bring something out of you that your sort of group of yes men that you exist with might not I think that's something that that I miss

and what I love about comedy and live comedy and stand up and that's for me my little church I have the same thing like first of all

I have a special called Thank God for Jokes Yes Mike I know it's one of my favorite specials I ever saw Thanks I wasn't I wasn't pushing you but i didn't want to but i'm not even being sarcastic i didn't want to ignore it i love it so much and i suppose especially because it's my style of comedy i love that you talk to the audience i've loads of material on religion as well and i connect with so much of it and And it's so interesting to see another culture,

but a similar culture. Because you were talking about it like as an American second gen with something similar. And I love that special so much. Well, when I was working on that show at the Bleecker Street Theater, I was back-to-back slots with Neil Brennan's show, Three Mics,

which is a brilliant Netflix show. I love that. That's my favorite special. I've never seen it, but I really do. I really love it. Of course. Of course you do. It's a great special. But he has, but Neil has this line

where he says something to the effect of like, you know, sometimes the world can feel like it's a room filling up with water. And for me to be able to think of a joke is like an air bubble. And I can take the oxygen, my lungs, and it can carry me forward. And I really do feel like sometimes the combination of sort of speaking your truth combined with a group of people in the audience, it really can feel like a religious experience.

You're one of the rare comics who I've encountered where, and you must have had friends tell you this before. Do you have friends? Sorry, you finish this sentence. Yes, you took the words right out of my mouth. No, it's that you, it's almost like someone should have to follow you around with a tape recorder because so many things that you're saying, I'm like, oh, you should write that down. You should jot that down. Like that should, that could be a bit, um, when you and I met, it was at, uh, uh, opening night party for the broadway hit ferryman which was just a classic where we'd be mike you know what i mean it's just a classic where we'd be

well i remember when i met you we were at the opening night of a broadway hit show no but it was very memorable for me because i loved i was very moved by that play. And it's a, it's about particularly Northern Ireland, I want to say. And then at the party, uh, I don't know if we were in a group of people, but you just started chatting with me and I just immediately thought, what a funny and, uh, charming person. And, uh, and, and you, I don't know, tell me this. Are you extroverted? Or is it, what quality of you allows you to just talk to people at parties like that? Because I was not about to talk to people at the party. Oh, wow. That's interesting.

I did think this the other day. I've never been shy. Ever. Ever, ever, ever. I've been embarrassed. It's not like I haven't been awkward. I've been afraid. But I'm not shy. And I think it's because I'm not afraid of other people at all the only person I'm purely

terrified of is myself I'd rather spend time with anyone but me so I suppose in social situations I'm like oh god you're not me fantastic um but my mother's not shy either so I was brought up with a real and she's a very equal person like she doesn't think anyone's below or beneath her so I don't think anyone's whoa there's that person and I also don't think

ugh I'll move on from that person either my mom has that quality too which I think is charming you have it too though well Mike is you have a charming mike maybe i have it more so it reflects back on something you already have but you're so like that and welcoming and warm and just being like open you're you're definitely like that without a doubt do you think it's an i don't want to generalize but do you think it's an irish quality because my mother's

irish yes well without a doubt yeah yeah yeah it think it's an Irish quality? Because my mother's Irish. Yes, well, without a doubt. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a very, I suppose if you were to put English and Irish people beside each other, what's the difference? Obviously, you know, English people are evil and stuff. But other than that, and the second, oh, English people, I'm joking.

Don't at me. I live in your country. I pay taxes. A lot of tax. I love you. You're not going to be allowed on any of the chat shows anymore. Aye, aye, aye. I love you.

You're not going to be allowed on any of the chat shows anymore. Yay. But that their assumption is you'd have to get to know someone really well to be friends. And Irish culture is the opposite. You assume they're not an enemy. So you just assume someone is your friend. And I think what English people describe as over familiarity is normal so we would describe that as a coldness whereas they would describe us as over familiar whereas that's normal and i i just don't it's it's a it's a it's a cultural thing to talk and engage and connect

and make community and i i make connections as well you know that's where Irish people all know each other it's not that we don't know it's not that we all know each other it's just that we try and work it out more you know English probably people all probably know each other as well they just don't do any detective work and we're like immediately going hello who are you and where was your mother and what year did she move over and did she go to school and was there a priest there called father michael ah well he had been moved from a parish near my aunt's house because he was a pedophile and that's how i know you um wait hold on hold on are we are we writing this down ah no it's all just that's gotta be a run somewhere um but like that's definitely a a cultural thing.

But it's the one bit that I'm like, I wouldn't change for the world, that I like traveling through people. I don't have wanderlust, but I have people lust. I love going, ooh, where are you from? What's your story? What's your culture? Tell me all about it.

I love that. I had a thing. I was having lunch with my mom one day where we get up. There's these women at a table over about my mom's age. And we get up to leave, and she walks over and starts talking to them about, she said, I heard you talking about your tooth surgery, and I had the same tooth surgery. Yeah, yeah.

I go, Mom, we get to the car, I go, Mom, why'd you just talk to those ladies? She goes, I heard them talking about the tooth surgery and I had to say something. I was like, you didn't have to say something. You know, that happens a lot more in stand-up than, I don't always relate to the stand-ups, I relate to the people

they're talking to. And I'm, so sometimes I often feel like when someone goes, and this person comes over and does this, and I'm like, can I just,

you know, let's hear him act though. Maybe he was having a bad day and that's why he seems so overwhelmed. But that's, but that's why

your series is so good because I feel like all of the characters have a three-dimensional point of view on this way up. Oh, thank you. Yeah, I hope so. But I think that that's the mark of a dramatist, which is that the dramatist puts themselves in the shoes of all of the characters in a somewhat equal way. of the characters in a somewhat equal way. And so you write the hell out of your character, who I was listening to your episode of Pete Holmes' podcast,

which I love, where he asked you to describe your character in the show, and you said, I'm a bit much. Yeah, that's it. But I love that. And actually, I've heard you talk in other interviews about the sort of relationship between confidence, mistaking confidence for self-esteem. I think I always felt really like, how do I put this? It's stupid for me to say I wasn't confident because I would go and do stand up in front of 6,000 people. And sometimes, not just on an any random day, just say, for example, I have done that. Or I would go on stage and not be shy around people. And like,

it would be stupid for me to say I'm not confident. And that sometimes you'd feel so much self-hatred or not like yourself. And you're like, then why? How can I call this confidence? And a therapist described it to me as high, which I think a lot of performers have, which is high confidence and low self-esteem. Yeah. And it means that you are confident enough to go on stage to 6,000 people, but your self-worth is measured by whether those 6 000 people like you or not whereas some people will maybe have lower confidence so they might go on stage but if whether it goes well or not like whether those people laugh or defect how they feel about themselves and that's high self-esteem and so I think I definitely like how others see me is how I judge myself I don't go like I think I'm great I'm like did they like me because that that's how I judge

myself as by if other people like me and I think with that comes trying to when I hear bad things about other people sometimes I overly go well let's hear them out. Because I sometimes feel like I might have been misunderstood or picked up badly. Like, I remember after the night of meeting you for the first time, the next morning I woke up because I knew I'd had too many free drinks at the bar. And I was being a little loose with my opinions. And I told myself, oh, my God, I bet you everyone hates me

or find me too much. There I was blabbing away at this Broadway play. um i'm gonna real about it rather than going well last night i was drunk everyone was drunk i would assume that like i'd done something or said something bad because i talk so much and it just comes out that i do recall that you had very funny opinions. Oh, thank you fellas, because we don't want to put them on record. This is Michael. Oh yeah, those opinions you had, you were really afraid of. Let's not put them on record.

Stepping away from my conversation with Ashlyn B. to send a shout out to our friends at Spindrift. Oh, how I love my Spindrift. Birbiglius loves Spindrifts. Spindrift Sparkling Water is so popular that with my family, that this weekend we had an outdoor gathering of family to celebrate my daughter's sixth birthday.

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drinkspindrift.com and entering code BERBIGS, and you'll get 25% off your order. That's a good deal. drinkspindrift.com, enter code BERBIGS. And now back to the show. Do you have a smell that you remember from childhood that sticks with you? Yes, I do. My dad died when I was a kid and when I was three and he was a horse vet and by vet I mean veterinarian surgeon, not like he was in the war of horses. He was a vet from horse.

And I used to travel around with him. There's a certain, and it'll flash by me, of medical, which wouldn't have been around, even though randomly I remember until I was about, he had so much cotton wool, this medical cotton wool, which was in our house longer than he lived there. Because obviously after he died, there'd just be all this stuff around.

And I think my mother would use it to remove her makeup and stuff like that usually piles of this cotton but there's like a smell of of medical supplies kind of for animals really but like that's so it was really weird I remember so this is a bit of the psychic christy healer stuff but I did this hypnosis thing because of course it is I'm such a like white woman having my white woman summer I'm just like a rose and god I don't like rose wine because otherwise I'd just be like oh come on um but I did this with this like energy healer hip hypnosis to and to go back to your child so your inner child to have a little chat with yourself yeah and it was all about my dad and it did this thing where it's almost like you're there and a

sudden memory or feeling and i could smell the the medical stuff from his car yeah and with that came an absolute knowledge that i was loved and like and i didn't know and like a feeling of like it was almost like if if you'd been fed bananas every single day of your life until you were three and then never heard or thought about a banana or smelled one or touched one for 20 30 years and then someone gave you the taste of a banana. You're like this, I know this, this, and that's what it was like. That's such a sweet smell memory. I love that it's positive. That's really sweet. Yeah. Smell Marie. Do you have a memory on a loop that doesn't end up making it into your shows, but is just sort of like something you think about every now and then yeah

it's it's uh the teacher i was like playing on this with this um like you know it was like one of those claimable kind of toy car garages that sort of you drive around a little car and then someone else had like matching cards like you know two pictures of a tiger or two pictures of a bear and you have to just put the matching ones together and i'm like oh god why did i pick that play mobile now i want those cards god i picked the wrong game and i'm like miss and when teacher is anyway so i really can please change over to the cards and she's like you always do this ashling you always want to do all the things like you all want to play all the different games and i can still feel the like intense addiction to want to play the other thing and the jumping between the dopamine it just it doesn't

it doesn't fit any like you're saying it doesn't mean anything but just the feeling of of one i want that one but i want that that that but i can't oh god i'd love to have them all that sort of that but i find that i find that completely relevant to to your career because you're you're a writer you're a producer you're a stand-up comedian you're on these chat shows you're like doing everything and i bet there's some part of you deep down that thinks like, maybe I should just do one of the things. Yeah, and one thing well, rather than everything averagely.

But then I'm always like, I hedge my bets. This is one of those, yeah, Mike, so I'm using this as an opportunity to tell that passive-aggressive, play-school bitch that she doesn't know me. She's laughing that all the way to the bank, Mrs. Foster Murphy, whatever your name was. This is so hostile.

This is the most hostile the show has ever gotten. Actually, this is something I was trying to work on stand-up of about like how all of these people, like we never get over

our childhood. I did have a joke which I wrote on Twitter which was like, it only takes 93 years to get over your childhood and then you can get on with life. Oh, that's great.

That's a great joke. And I remember one of my mother's ex-boyfriend said this thing once and it was really kind of deep of him. And it sort of makes sense where he's like, when you're five, two months out of your life, actually, I'll say a year because I can't do the maths. But like a year of your life is one fifth of your whole life. So everything that happens in that year is like a fifth of your whole experience and it's just in your body so much. When you're 45, a year is a 45th. So it doesn't, it's not that big a deal.

So the things that might happen, you might win an Oscar at 45, but you're like, it's only the 45th of your year. But if you had something taken away from you at four, you're like, that's a quarter of my entire life that it happened. And without pizza, I'll never get over it. You know, so. I was a camp counselor when I was 15. And all of my recollections of it were that I couldn't stand the kids and that I was probably terrible at it and all this kind of stuff. It was Worcester Academy Sports Camp. But I do recall one thing,

which is that there was a camper named Eric Diddleman and he was smaller than all the other kids and they picked on him. And so for whatever reason, as a counterbalance to that, I would just really, I was like his hype man. I'd be like, Eric! I'd be like, Eric! Dittleman's here! Right? Oh, yeah. So cut to 20 years later.

Eric Dittleman, he's a successful magician. Eric Dittleman. And he wrote me a message recently and says, it really sticks with me to this day that everyone picked on me and then you made me like a big, you know, you gave me a lot of self-esteem that like stuck with me to this day. It was like very, very sweet. You say that, but actually you did him a load of damage because he became a magician.

because it became a magician. One time Jen and I went, my wife Jen and I went to Ireland many years ago. We were in Dingle, which is gorgeous. That's where my dad was from. Oh, just one of the most spectacular, if people listening ever have the opportunity in your life to go to Dingle, it is the westernmost tip of Europe, actually.

Next stop, America. And so you're able to sort of look out on these cliffs. We went on a bike ride out to these cliffs. It was extraordinary. And one time we're in a pub, and my wife, Jen, goes, she goes, I think that this town is famous for its berries. Yeah, go on.

And I go, no, no, it's it's not. I think that that's just an expression. She goes, no, no, I'm sure of it. And I think we had had a couple pints with her. She goes, I'm sure of it. And then she says to the bartender, excuse me, like, is this town known for its berries? So he walks over and tells a group of bar patrons this story about us who are on the other end of the bar. And they all start laughing at us in unison.

And that is my dingleberry story. Oh, Mike. Dingleberries. Lord, bless us and save us. When you play in Ireland, because I've played a handful of times in Ireland. I did Kilkenny Festival many years ago. I actually remember,

I remember I went on stage at Kilkenny Festival and I was like, like oh this is pretty good and then Tommy Tiernan the great Irish comedian went on after me and I go oh okay I guess what I was doing wasn't comedy yeah yeah yeah because the audience erupted in this local like we're quite for a sort of self-deprecating country we're extraordinarily arrogant about our own amazingness as a culture and while we kind of will tolerate foreigners to break up the day but ultimately to break up the day yeah but ultimately what we want to listen to is someone talking about us who knows us to ourselves and so i say this to

every american at cat laughs or at the vodafone festival i'm like go out and just before you're set mention something you've seen in the town wow of course and they're like i don't need to do something pandering crowd work and you're like okay, okay. And then someone else will go, hey, I went and bought a sandwich in Dunn's stores. That's a bargain. And people are like, ah, I love Dunn's stores. Oh my gosh. This is perfect, actually. Because first of all, I completely agree

about starting with local observations, material. And maybe I could run by you some observations I had about Ireland the last time I was in Ireland so that I could use this the next time I come to Ireland, which I hope is soon. When we were in Ireland, we went to a zoo. And it's weird because there are animals all over the place. In Ireland, there are fields of sheep and goats. And then we're at the zoo and there's a there's a cage of goats and these goats have got to be thinking where did we go wrong

like we could have had a field that's a true story that's yeah it's in my it's in my notebook from like 10-15 years ago and I thought if I ever go to Ireland, I'm going to try that. Is there something about like the goat being like, oh, God, this is so shit of us for being so special. Oh, that's funny. Like they were extra talented goats. They were like, we just kept our heads down. The chosen ones. And been normal like the rest of them.

We could have stayed in the goddamn field. But you had to be dynamic, John, didn't you? And now look where it's gotten us, in a cage with spectators. Yeah, yeah. Like they're, yeah, yeah, exactly. They're quibbling among each other for the rest of their lives.

Yeah, going, well, it's you. You made me look special and worth looking at, worth paying to look at. I didn't ask for this. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. Well, it's so funny because what I thought you were saying,

which also could be a way to go with it, is like that they actually think we're the chosen ones. Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like you could go both ways with it. We're the chosen. We're the ones who get to stay indoors. Americans are the best.

We have a nice cage. Like they're celebrities in comparison. Like they're the VIPip lounge of goats yes petting zoos being in in like that you know not everyone can afford lots of stuff and so there's lions sure we've got a polar bear and then like a couple of goats like you have to pat it out like a bread basket or the goats There's a dog as well. And over there, there's a cat. If you want to have a look at a cat in a cage,

we've got a cat or two there. You know, like a couple of things, we have to pat it out. It's also the weird thing about zoos where it's like, you know, we have a lion, we have sheep, and then in the cafeteria, we serve chicken. Yeah, it's a really cruel, if you were to look at it from the animal's perspective, it would be a horror movie.

Yeah, it's a horror movie! They chop us up, and then they come and look at us perform with a ball on our nose, like we're animals stepping away from my conversation with ashley and b to send a shout out to bombas socks bombas are my favorite socks they're the only socks uh that i wear i. I go Bombas or no socks. That's it. That's my whole deal. Because A, they're super, super comfortable. B, they give a pair of Bombas socks to a homeless shelter for every pair that you purchase. They've donated over 45 million pairs of socks. That is my kind of company. That is working it out for a cause as a company.

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and get 20% off your first order. Bombas.com slash burbigs. And now, back to the show. Do you have any bits that you are working on that are sort of half finished or anything like that? I have a little list now, and after our chats, which one would I like to zoom in on? We've talked about so many interesting things.

Yeah. One thing that I, it's almost like, and i enjoyed listening to you and nikki talk so much um it's almost like i think with my personality or your personality sometimes it can be harder to talk about certain subjects because people are sad when you're sad it's actually yeah like if the audience likes you and you bring up something that makes them think oh she was sad yeah they can't recover from it very easily and i find that a little tough sometimes and i have this bit where i mean it goes well at small gigs but when i've tried to turn it into something bigger my um my dad as i said died when i was a kid and there was there's only ever

been one sorry i'm moving my feet around to think there's only ever been one video of him because at the time obviously we didn't have video recorders or like i often think americans sometimes i see amy schumer put up videos of herself when she was a kid and i'm like oh my god like america used to be a place where video cameras were available. Like in America, they get video cameras and they're only $800. Whereas, you know, that was until I was a teenager,

that sort of thing wouldn't happen. That you'd have a video camera or a family would have a video camera. As a matter of fact, there was a great Jim Sheridan movie. In America. In America. Yes.

About an Irish family moving to America. And a lot of the footage is like camcorder footage yes that's interspersed it's very emotional I love that movie oh it's gorgeous

we used to quote that a lot when we were kids because it was there was a bit where they were crossing the border like what are you doing here we're going to America and my dad's not working

because like they kept on telling it's very important to say we're not here for work we're not here for work we're going to America and my dad's not working because like they kept on telling it's very important to say we're not here for work we're not here for work we're going to america my dad's not working we used to quote that the whole time so i'm sorry so you you only have this one piece of video footage we have this video of um my dad and it's from my christening and my father was really into technology and just like working out new things and there was an encyclopedia or a video camera and in it I suppose growing up I wasn't that

interested in it almost for some reason and but I remember it being like you know his voice and him moving around and there's no footage of him moving anywhere and now we have so much footage of everyone moving and doing things and talking and there's no recordings of his voice or or how he looked when he moved or how he walked and I really loved Dawson's Creek and um it was you know we didn't have any sort of what you call TiVo or anything like that like we only had two channels and um the video somehow ended up in the pile and one day i just recorded dawson's creek over it oh my gosh oh my gosh and my bit that i tried and it did work sometimes other people are too sad my god are like i go i know it's so sad basically like Dawson had been in love with Pacey first or not

Pacey Joey for so long and then she ended up with Joey and it's just it's one of those heartbreaking stories you never get over your first love like you know trying to make it as if that's a sad bit yeah and I remember I only realized and then I just put the video back and never told mommy until like I was in my late 20s, when it's one of those mistakes where the teenage me was a child doing something. Yeah. And then, and so that's kind of the bit that I was trying to work out how to totally do, like what the total button would be where people,

I think it needs to go on to something else. But the interesting thing was about it, about four or five years ago, I wrote an article about my dad's death and it went viral and sort of got shared around the world and all this kind of stuff and the what the weird part of it was after the sort of slightly slightly shocking time of so many people getting in touch about suicide and their loved ones and stuff was at a very personal level all of these men getting in touch who'd known my dad and at the time when he died there was no facebook there was no way of staying in touch with my mother and all of these men who sort of had found out or had been at the funeral

but had lost their friend and then just went on with their own lives and i remember being a little bit like mama mia you know in mama mia three men turn up and she doesn't know which one's her father yeah these three men from around the world sort of got in touch who'd been vets with my dad at school veterinarians veterinarians yeah and they one lived in australia another was in ireland but he may as well have been in timbuktu because of the emotional space between him and my mom in a sense you know not being able to get in touch but they all sort of got in touch through their kids who followed me on facebook or who followed me on twitter and um and one of them was this gorgeous

couple and randomly i'd been following their daughters because there were these two Irish women who set up this thing called Food Cloud, which is about collecting food waste and distributing it back to homeless charities and stuff like that. And I was like, oh, that's a cool thing. So years before, and they DMed me on Twitter,

I was like, hi, we're sort of from this food cloud thing. But my dad is pretty sure he was really good friends with your dad at university and was one of his best friends. And my mom like oh yeah i remember him he was at our wedding and they came over to england to see their two daughters who were also living here and in it they brought a video of their wedding and they put it onto a cd so they transferred it onto a cd oh my gosh pre like video with audio yeah but they gave it to me they were like your dad's in that and through this article they gave me this this dvd and i was like oh my god thank you because we met up for a cup of tea

and it's almost like they wanted to see him not me in a sense which was fine like there was that sort of something like a little key or a puzzle I've been giving back to them because you forget as well when it's your own life yeah how many friends or people and they were all younger than they were in my our age you know all these people losing someone and it would have been massively affecting for them but there was no way of like staying in touch or knowing what had happened to us and all of these men sort of got in touch and i was looking at them going they're my dad's height and age and background and same life and trying to put together who he is but then i got this dvd and brought it back and put it in my computer and even though there's no sound on it and like there's obviously at least seven nuns at this wedding.

It was an Irish wedding. I'm like, that's a lot of nuns, even for an Irish wedding. You know, all these nuns. And it's just music with footage. But there suddenly is this man, and it would have been him before he met my mam, but it's just him walking around in this wedding in just little clips.

And there he is moving with his body and his voice and his head and you're just watching this and it's just like there's the video back in some way and yeah yeah it was one of those weird there's not totally stamp but there's some stores there's something in and i don't know the it's beautiful you don't totally know and sometimes i was thinking about this podcast sometimes stuff isn't for stand-up and you find yeah you make a movie or you make your sure story or your podcast or your discussion but i i have a joke for it which is um please which is that uh you know and these i met these men and they they handed me a package they said we have some footage of your dad from this wedding.

And, and I opened it up and it was a DVD box set of Dawson's Creek. It's so stupid. I mean, I feel like you could do that and then you could tell the actual story, but like, it's like, But it's, it isn't it to have something and then at least you can go like ah no but it's you're looking what yeah that's perfect because what you're looking for is something to break the tension yeah it was all six seasons which was and watching thank god that's what i i love about your stand-up and watching you gave me a lot more confidence and

this is going to seem like a an insult genuine isn't a lot more confident I think what I panic about as a storyteller is the time it takes to get to a laugh and to know that people are okay listening to a story and you were genuinely one of my favorite soundups Mike because of that I love I look at you and I'm like I'm totally okay I haven't laughed in two minutes of course because he's not that funny but because sometimes you don't laugh and you're like, but I'm really entertained and I'm not on a laugh count. I'm here for the storytelling bit.

Yeah, I mean, I feel like that, I mean, I feel like what you're describing, if you wanted to do it, is what a main event of a solo show at Edinburgh or off Broadway

or wherever you'd want to do it would be. I mean, that's an extremely, what a main event of a solo show at Edinburgh or off-Broadway or wherever you'd want to do it would be. I mean, that's an extremely, I mean, even just hearing it in an early version of it, it's very emotional. And I think that the reason why we tell stories is because people see themselves in the story and they feel some sense of catharsis from it. So you're giving a gift to the audience

by sharing this really personal, deep story that you have. I know what my end music would be then for the show. Do-do-do-do-do-do. Do-do-do. Swooping up your morning light. Oh, my gosh. Say a little breath for right. That would be the...

Sarah McLachlan, right? Yes, it was Sarah McLachlan. I used to, in my teenage times, when I was sad, think about my dad and play in the arms of the angel on a piano, what I can imagine in a really average way. But I thought I was, like, so moving. But I feel like the question is are you willing to to make that show because I'd love to see that show but also you have you have to sort of commit

to this idea of like you're gonna put yourself inside this traumatic life event for you know I spend two three years on these shows yeah I mean I don't think that part of it wasn't traumatic to be honest that's the bit that was not but i think people get uncomfortable i i think it's more finding like when you said an inside yeah a tape of dawson's creek and for a second i thought you were going to say an inside was porn oh my gosh that's funny too you know what i mean and i think i've been looking for you know all you need is a little key but you're going around this bunch yeah and when it's and when it's something that you care about it's fine when you're like what's the difference between men and women because like ah each you know it's like i'm dying to get in the door it's fine if i don't

get in this one but when it's something that's a bit more personal to you and you have to keep trying it to work out the key it's it's more like oh your confidence starts to it's it's something that's a bit more personal to you and you have to keep trying it to work out the key, it's, it's more like, Oh, your confidence starts to, it's, it's so such a big jump out to, to risk. It's, it's massive. And you know, one piece of wisdom that I took from Ira Glass many years ago, because we've worked on a lot of these movies and shows together in stories for this American Life,

is he, and I hope I'm not butchering some of his wisdom, but this is how I understood it, is that one way to unfold a story is to have some plot and then the emotion of how you feel about that plot, and then a little more plot, and then the emotion of how you feel about the plot. And it's the interplay of emotion and plot that keeps the audience interested and what he said to me emotion about that plot yeah and so and so what he what he said to me and i i found this extraordinarily helpful is he's like

for your shows the emotion is uh actually the jokes yes and and that's why and that's why the audience is interested because they're laughing and then they're drawn in to the plot and in your case the plot is will you ever achieve any sense of closure about this extremely traumatic event of losing your father and the you know you know the secret is, sure, to some extent, yes. And part of it is through these experiences with seeing your dad's friends and them sharing this thing with you.

But the audience, it's actually suspenseful for the audience. They don't know if you'll achieve any sense of catharsis or comfort or anything. That's so true. And sometimes I suppose when there's no, any sense of catharsis or comfort or anything. That's so true. And sometimes I suppose when there's no end, like I find like that story has no end other than like there's my dad in the video. And I suppose it's like the...

I find it easier if I know what the point is of telling people, especially with standup. I think it's easy when it's a discussion like this. When you're on stage, it's like, it would stand up. I'm like, the key rule is you're not doing a TED talk. It has to be standup. So it can take whatever format it is, but it's not your chance to be confessional

it's not your therapy of course it can be therapeutic it can be cathartic but it is a stand-up show people have paid for and you're not just there to go so guys i did this because it's not a confessional talk evening or a storytelling evening and they're beautiful they're lovely i've done loads of them new york has loads of them actually and i've done quite a few of them when i was living there and that's great because it's almost like the pressure's off to be funny so you end up becoming funnier but with the stand-up that it's like well what for that story to get to that oh that was a bit of feeling but so what what's the and that's what i realized if you know what i mean like thank god yeah has the most gorgeous that's when i realized so does the oh my god have i forgotten the name of

it toys fall down you're special the new one the new one the new one yeah um i'm great with all the titles of your things you know what's a new one um the new one um so yeah so what's the like what are you trying to get people to feel by telling them that story? Like here, it's because there's something, it's an interesting story, but in terms of standup, what's the- The other thing to keep in mind, I mean, I agree with you.

And I think like, you'll find those jokes, but you'll find those jokes by virtue of you're such a funny person naturally. I mean, I was saying earlier, you could record any conversation that you have and you'd probably find 10 jokes saying earlier, you could, you know, record any conversation that you have and you'd probably find 10 jokes in it that you could pluck out. I think what you'll find is by telling the story on stage, you will reflexively tell jokes. I know I'll tell jokes because that's what you do anyways. I suppose what I find is if I know there's an end goal,

I'm much better at, I take a tangent even when I'm speaking, as you can tell, all the time. But I always remember what to come back to. And I think with this, I don't know what I'm coming back to. So it's almost like I'm just, I'm going out, not knowing where I'm going. And I think I need a place to be getting to, if that makes sense. Well, I think like, I think for example, and it might be this, it might not be this, but it might be the reunion with your dad's friends. That might be the place you're going. You know, like when, when my director, Seth and I were developing a sleepwalk with me, it was like the place we were going was the moment where I'm jumping through the second story window in my girlfriend's boyfriend it was the place we were going was the car accident and and then um thank god for jokes it was this David O

Russell story and with um with the new one it was you had a kid yeah you knew you knew we didn't need to know that that's where you were going and I suppose when I'm telling this, I don't totally know yet where, I don't know the, I love knowing the end. Even when I write a movie or TV show, I always know the final scene. But I think that, I think that you're,

you already told me what it is. I, in my opinion, which is to say that when you talk about meeting your dad's friends, to me, that could be it. I think, and we're watching the video alone um the other thing i want to point out um is that you know when when edison was inventing the recording of sound

part of the goal was um so that we could have the voices of our dead forever. And that was actually the goal. It wasn't like he envisioned Netflix or something. And I think that that might be- He never told me butchered with the two of us doing dick jokes, did he? I'm sorry, Edison. But I think that that might be worth exploring because here you are experiencing this catharsis but I think that that but I think that that might be worth exploring because

you know here you are experiencing this catharsis you know a hundred years after the invention um yeah and it wasn't the intent of me being on telly and having hundreds of hours and videos of me shared around the world and this sounds like I'm being big-headed it's just more the truth and like uh all of these tapes of me in dvds and specials and yet there's the thing i want to see the most there's only a flicker of and that's the show i want to see and i recorded an episode of dawson's creek over but like the irony of like the the difference which i suppose is a bit more like therapy it's like well there was definitely something i had growing up where you know the irish thing is like well you could be dead tomorrow and myself and my sister were like yeah no but you could like that happened to us someone died um and we have this blinding panic to get as much work done as we can just in case we die

and there's a panic almost like a paralyzing ironically panic about getting as much work and doing as many things as possible just in case you leave nothing behind just in case something you do could just be recorded with an episode of Dawson's Creek over like a panic to live and make work and leave a mark and not be left with nothing and yeah the the the difference of me having thousands of hours of my voice out there my face and videos and and stuff and yeah there's something maybe in that and how much we record but the precious thing that you have and just this idea that you just want to watch two minutes of your dad walking around oh my god it was on the grass thing yeah just like seeing his body how he moved around

yeah there's something in that element it's discovering the hook to it it's that sort of interesting interesting and also like

that of course comes back to the loneliness theme that you explore in This Way Up which is sort of like like in in that of course comes back to the the loneliness theme that you explore and in this way up which is which is sort of like talking about like sort of will this ever be resolved like will this loneliness ever be resolved and maybe that's sort of the question of the show that the question that the show the question could ask yeah i mean i think that the thing you realize when you get older is you're like the answer is no and you're like oh yeah oh yes of course no no it's either wrong or it's right isn't it no a lot of the time it's

very messy in between and there's no justice is there such. The law, kind of here and there, to be honest, depends on what country you live in, what you believe in. The last thing that we do on the show is called Working It Out for a Cause. And if there's any non-profit that you think is doing a good job right now, I'm going to donate to them and then I'm going to link to them in the show notes.

I've thought about this a lot and I'd actually like to nominate myself oh my god how dare you i think i did a lot of good work here in seaman and i require i think it's ashley it's ashley v.com as you be like come forward slash uh don't please don't send my agent i do not want to pay any commission on my gosh um no i would like touge, which is a charity in the UK for domestic violence to help women who are in domestic violence. As we know, domestic violence cases, we don't even know the numbers of it yet. For during the pandemic, the pressure of financial pressure, the emotional pressure of this time has probably brought out the worst in a lot of situations and there are obviously numbers you can call if you're listening and i would say if you feel like you may be in a situation even just ringing the number is a step if you can get access

to a phone and uh just to ring a charity they might not be able to do everything in the world but um uh it's it's a step towards maybe breaking a cycle. And I hope you are okay if that's a situation you are in. But Refuge Charity in the UK. We're going to link to Refuge in the show notes so people can donate. And this conversation, thanks for having this, Aisling. This has made me feel less lonely, even just hearing you share that piece of your life with me.

Am I your camp counselor? You're not going to start doing magic in your goddamn show, are you, Mike? So you have to cut... There you go, undercutting it with humor. And that's comedy. All right, Aisling well thanks again and I will thank you for this Mike I had a brilliant time which is what I'm supposed to say that's what you told me to say at the end wasn't it

yes I had a brilliant time working it out cause it's not done we're working it out cause there's no not done. Working it out, because there's no hope. That's going to do it for another episode of Working It Out. Aisling B is an absolute one of a kind. I love what she's doing. I can't wait to see what she does next.

I follow her, and so should you, on Instagram at WeMissB W-E-E M-I-S-S-B-E-A on Instagram. You can follow me at Atber Biggs. And if you're liking this podcast, if you're liking working it out,

write a little stars. Give us some stars or a little user review or even just forward this to a friend because we really enjoy what we're doing here and we hope you are as well. Our producers of Working It Out are myself, along with Peter Salamone and Joseph Birbiglia, consulting producer Seth Barish,

sound mix by Kate Balinski. Associate producer Mabel Lewis. Special thanks to Mike Insiglieri, Mike Berkowitz, as well as Marissa Hurwitz and Josh Upfall. Special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers for their music, as always. A very special thanks to my wife, the poet J. Hope Stein. It's coming up on the one-year anniversary of our book, the new one, Painfully True Stories from a Reluctant Dad with Poems by J. Hope Stein, which is available

at your local bookstore, which you should support, along with local pizza and local coffee and local groceries. As always, a special thanks to our daughter Una, which is spelled, of course, the Irish way, O-O-N-A. She created a radio

fort made of pillows. Thanks most of all to you who have listened. Tell your friends. Tell your enemies. How loud can I say that? Tell your enemies! We're working it out. Thanks for being a part of it.

See you next time.