Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 43. Bill Hader: This Episode Has It All

Episode Date: June 7, 2021

This episode has it all. Bill’s time at SNL. Bill’s time at South Park. Bill’s work at Pixar. Bill’s impression of Mike and Mike’s impression of Bill. Bill’s collaboration with Mulaney and Bill’s discussion of craft in co-creating and writing and acting on the Emmy award-winning HBO hit “Barry.” It’s got jokes. It’s got stories. It even has a moment when Mike forces Bill to compare himself to The Beatles. If that’s not enough, today (June 7) is Bill's birthday. https://www.everytown.org/

Hey, everybody. We are back with a new episode of Working It Out. Is this the most excited I've ever been for an episode of Working It Out? I think it's possible. I think this is a big one. Bill Hader is a giant in comedy Someone I admire so much Quick announcement before we get started I'm just adding shows all summer

So I'm in Red Bank, New Jersey In Westport, Connecticut At the Westport Country Playhouse In East Hampton In Montauk In Cape Cod In all these places It's all on Burbiggs.com

The best way to be in touch Is to sign places, it's all on Burbiggs.com. The best way to be in touch is to sign up for my email list on Burbiggs.com. I've been sending those emails for about 20 years. I mean, that's how it started, is me just in the back of Comedy Club saying, hey, would you like to sign up for my email list? And then here we are. But today on the show, we have Bill Hader. Bill became first well-known as a cast member for Saturday Night Live. He co-created the character Stefan with the great John Mulaney.

He co-created the series documentary now he's been in the movies Hot Rod and Superbad and Tropic Thunder he and I were both in the movie Trainwreck together he was in all these Pixar films Inside Out Finding Dory I mean just on and on he's written for

South Park he created his own series co-created his own series on HBO called Barry, which is really incredible, this very dark comedy series called Barry that he's won two Emmy Awards, Best Actor. And the reason why it launches into such a good sort of craft conversation today is that not only is he the lead actor on the show, he's a writer on the show, he's a producer on the show, and he's a director of many of the episodes.

So we really get into it. In some ways, we get into it more than any episode we've ever done. So I hope you enjoy my conversation with the great Bill Hader. We start shooting third season of Barry in two months. Oh my gosh, wow. Which just like hit me. Wow. I'm fully, I had watched the first season and then now I just watched the second season

and it, it, it wallops you. I can't imagine filming it. It wallops you as a viewer. Yeah, I know. People are never like,

oh, that was fun. They're like, what is, what the hell was that? It's like, I thought that was fun. They're like, what the hell was that? It's like, I thought this was going to be funny. And it's like, oh, I think it's funny. And it's like, what the hell's wrong with you?

Yeah, I had a friend watch it, and they said, why'd you do that to Henry Winkler that last episode? Why'd you do that? He's like a national treasure. Why did you do it to Henry Winkler? Well, I don't know if you have this in standup or some of it, or in your shows where you'll go to like, kind of very like, you know, emotional place.

Dramatic place. Or dramatic place. Or something that's just very genuine or it's you kind of dealing with something and you can kind of, I don't know. I never question it. I just go, oh, this is where it should go. Right.

And then it's always other people who go, what the hell was that? Right, the critique is what the hell was that? Why do you have that gear? You shouldn't have that gear. Why would you lean into that gear? No, no, I had that in such a huge way with the new one where people were like, why would you say that about not wanting

to have a child cause that's what I felt now I don't feel that way that's what we're trying to do right yeah that honesty is really terrifying but when you lead in when people meet you

you know from being really funny their first impression of you is that, you know, and then you have to kind of take them along for any sort of changes. And I realize like, oh, you got to kind of do it in a subtle way as you're figuring it out. You know, I think the age-old perfect example of that was probably The Beatles, where it's like, love me do, and then it's a slow build

to the White Album and all that stuff. But, you know, not comparing myself to The Beatles. I'm not doing that, but just that. No, no, I got that loud and clear, Bill. No, come on. No, that's the poll quote. I am The Beatles. We we're gonna use in rolling stone magazine i'm bill hater thinks he is the beatles of comedy i'm hbo's beatles

no but i i totally get what you mean and i think that that's like when i was watching barry i was like yeah this is the thing that bill and i have in common is that we're both obsessed with comedy. Yeah. And we're both obsessed with cinema. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And drama. Yeah. And like, and real, and like, one of the things I was thinking when I, you know,

when I was watching it is like, you and I also have this thing in common, which is we're both like, we're professionals, but we're students always. Yeah. Like students of learning. Yeah, yeah. Sponging, learning everything.

And like, you did that, like even after you'd been on SNL and you were a TV star, you went to work on South Park just to learn stories. Yeah, I think we both, I think you did it with Pixar too. It was like a similar thing. Yeah, I sort of popped in there, yeah. Yeah, you go into Pixar and go, how do you guys do the how do you

guys make these stories work so well and you realize it's like oh we're just never satisfied and we have five years to figure it out you know and you're like oh wow i can weirdly feel i you it's like you went to work on south park because you were a fan of it, and you were like, I'd like to learn story and structure and sort of how they construct this sort of watch together. But I can see it in Barry. I feel like I can see. Do you feel like you learn things from Matt and Trey that you use when you make Barry?

Oh, yeah, 100%. Yeah, I mean, the thing I always learned from them when I first came in is I thought, you know, we kind of had the first couple weeks is just like anything. You're pitching a bunch of stuff, and it's all funny and loose. It's that feeling you have in the lunchroom with your friends, which I always say is the funniest I've ever been in my life, which is you're just relaxed. There's nothing riding on it. You're not being paid. You're super comfortable.

You don't care what anybody thinks of you. And you're just loose and being funny. And so it's getting into that place with everybody. It's a very small group. And then I watched, it was like we got a lot of material. And then I watched Trey and Matt put it together and realizing how much emotion plays into it, how much it was following the emotion.

Because I would come in initially and go, oh, you know what would be an interesting thing is if this happened, this happened, and this happened. And it was all – what I realized, I was like – it was all plot. It was all plotty stuff. And that was when Trey taught me the thing, which I mean a lot of people have heard is it's not this happened and this happened and this happened. It's this happened, so therefore this happened. Yes, that's right.

So therefore this happens. Oh, my gosh, yes, so therefore this happens. Yes, that's right. So therefore this happens. Oh my gosh, yes. So then this happens. And once he said that, you realize how many good stories and also the really great stand-ups like you and Mulaney and people I love watching have that inherent thing, which is why does this work? And you realize like, oh, it's all kind of causal.

It kind of moves forward. Yeah, causality is always the thing that my director and I are honing in like the final year of the process. Yeah. It's exactly what you're saying, which is the way we phrase it is so then instead of and then.

Yeah. If you're doing and then, it's like, that's fun. Yeah. If you're doing, like, if you're doing and then, it's like, that's fun. Yeah. That's funny, but it's not going to make the whole thing move and propel. And, like, when I watch Barry, it's like, and so then this, and so then this, so then this, so then this.

And then you're like, and then next thing you know, you're, like, in that credit sequence, and it's, like, chirping crickets or whatever your foley work is at the end. Well, that's, like, I kind of, you know, to answer your question, I would go, you know, well, here's all my ideas for the season. And I would start the first day of writing off of me going, here's kind of my, what I think for the next, what season two could be. And I think I had something completely different the way season two ended.

And the writers went, and I'm sorry to say this is embarrassing, it dealt with a viral video. And the writers went, Bill, that sucks. We're not doing a viral video, man. That's so lame. How old are you, man? And I was like, no, no, no, it'll be good. And they were like, no, you can't do a viral video.

And I was like, okay, okay. And then you start be good. And they were like, no, you can't do a viral video. And I was like, okay, okay. And then you start erasing that. You erase this. You erase that. Because they felt like it was a trope. It was a trope and it wasn't emotional. It was, again, it was plotty. It's getting all your bad.

It's a thing is like be wrong fast. You're going to be wrong. Yeah. So be wrong as fast as you can. So I just go, this is me being wrong and I'm going to pitch like i love it yes because this is where i'm at today so it's like and then barry he has a viral video goes out yeah and people are like oh no and everybody goes what a viral video that's not what it was it wasn't his viral video but but, and they go, that's terrible. We're not doing that.

And then it forces me then to go, well, what am I avoiding? And then you realize, oh, I'm avoiding certain things like you do in your personal life. I'm avoiding it with the story. And what I was avoiding was getting into why, that Barry likes, there's a part of him that feels a sense of accomplishment by killing people. Yeah. That was the thing that he,

that his worth was murdering people because he was good at it. So that's where we came up with that. You have that powerful image of his sort of army, military buddies cheering him on. Exactly. You have that really tight shot of your face smiling in a way. Yeah.

You're proud that you achieved something. Yeah. Hiram Uriah directed that episode, and he gave me a great piece of direction. He was like, instead of murdering someone, think of this as you're the new kid at school. instead of murdering someone, think of this as you're the new kid at school. It's like you're the new kid at school and you're playing Street Fighter at the arcade afterward and all the kids are like, he just beat the highest score. And everyone is just so stoked for you because it's acceptance.

And I go, exactly. But that's what I mean. That's the process that you have to go to to get to that place. It's not like we come in and, as you know, I think Conan said something great on your podcast. People are always, and I did this, you're always comparing yourself to people who are fully formed. Of course, yeah. And I was like, oh, God, I did that my whole 20s and 30s and last year pretty much. Yesterday.

For me this week yesterday where you're going why can't you know I can't figure this out and then I always wish someone said was what Conan said but also that yeah it's very difficult

and it's a long process of being wrong and being wrong, and that's why I learned in the South Park room and in the Pixar room is you're wrong a lot, and then suddenly something clicks, and you're like, oh, wow. That's the scene I'm avoiding is that scene where all those guys are like, good job, because that's kind of a dark, weird thing to think of. It's so much easier and fun to come up with a fun goofball thing. What's funny, because I asked Jorma, our mutual friend,

what's most remarkable, because you've worked with him on SNL and in movies and Hot Rod and Popstar and a bunch of stuff with him. And I was like, what's the most remarkable thing about working with Bill? And he goes, Bill is endlessly interested in comedy and loves comedy and loves the exploration of comedy and loves other people's comedy yeah in this way that like he he's yeah it's sweet and it's like in a way that like he's like other people get jaded but bill's not jaded like he doesn't get jaded about comedy

oh that's sweet to say yeah i get very excited when someone does something uh new or interesting or you know you just get you just want to share it with everybody you know or I'm still someone I'm like a dad I still I read the onion every morning and I'm constantly like sending headlines like onion headlines to people going like oh my gosh how funny is this? And it's like, I know. And so like some of the Barry writers, I am just fully a dad. Like, all right, we get it. Or, you know, but then there's shows like I May Destroy You. I remember watching that going, wow, God, this is phenomenal. This is so funny and honest.

And then gets really honest towards the end where it's like really like I'm just, it's just, it's something that George Saunders talks about in that book and other people like Tobias Wolfe, who I love, and Alice Munro and these writers is they, it's like you don't try to solve a problem with your work. You try to present the problem. I love that and and and i go oh that's that that's what i'm responding to in this stuff that i like so much is that it's a presentation

of the problem because we're not going to solve it and i'm realizing oh the stuff that kind of leaves me cold or things that are a little didactic or uh absolute or something you know i agree i'm the same my tastes are very similar and like that's what i find off-putting often about like social media and you're not on so you're not on social media which i respect and admire that you're able to do that. That's a nice, that's a luxury. But people, there's a lot of people with a lot of answers on social media. And you're like, actually,

some of these are very complex questions. No, yeah. And I've also been of the age multiple times in my life where I had all the answers. Yeah, sure. I've been, you know, I'm going to sound like an old man, but social media in the late 90s was Denny's at 2 in the morning. In Oklahoma?

In Oklahoma. And you're like, why doesn't the world just do this? Yeah, yeah, sure. And you're like, and I'm this kind of person. Yeah. And this is who I am, and I'm always going i'm this kind of person yeah and this is who i am and i'm always going to be this kind of person and then you go uh no you're not you're going to change uh uh dramatically in ways uh every couple years you change and i look back at those times, and I mean, it's a thing that I'm 42, and I think people, my generation are always going like,

oh man, if I had social media when I was a teenager, I'd be fucked, you know? Because you just had so many- Forget about it. So many dumb ideas. The things that I thought when I was a teenager were so wrong. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you were off base and you,

things you found funny now I cringe at. Of course. And you, and some of the comedy and some of the stuff that, you know, even my kids for the first time are watching some of the old SNLs, I, you know, we did. And I even go, oh, I wouldn't do that now. That's terrible. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's terrifying, you know? So I'm glad I'm not on

social media because I would, one, it, it, I would become addicted to it. Yes. So it's never like, why are you doing that? It's more of a like, oh, I can't go there because I will fully become addicted to it. But then, yeah, the other thing is that I'm wrong a lot. I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm wrong every day. I don't understand.

I will think one thing one day and then someone will say something oh yeah you're right yes oh i very have it in stone on social media that i feel this way so i would be constantly going hey what i said yesterday i don't believe anymore because i'm figuring it out every day of course malcolm gladwell has this line that he said recently in an interview that I thought was so smart, which is like, if I wasn't changing now from what I was writing 10 years ago or 20 years ago, I would consider myself a failure. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Because I'm always trying to evolve and change. And so like to criticize something I wrote 20, 30 years ago, it's like, oh, of course, I'd criticize it.

So yeah, you can't go back to it. You have to go forward. And Barry, for me, was a part of that. When I went to HBO, it was like, I want to do something that's a little bit more dramatic and has comedy to it, but is a story of just certain things I relate to and Alec Berg relates to. i mean we don't we've never

murdered anybody but but the idea of uh wanting to belong a community and sure feeling um you know loneliness anxiety all these things you know yeah i feel for the character that i think it's the chechnyan uh assassin who wants to be your friend so much. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Meyerbeck, yeah. Yeah, yeah, you really like feel for him that he's rejected by you in this way that feels like middle school. Yeah.

Except they're assassins. Yeah, in another world, they would have been friends, but Barry's just at a different place in his life than that guy is. And I've felt that way before. I never thought I would, that's a perfect example. I never thought I would be that guy. If you would have told me when I was 30, if I saw someone else coming up or something, I would always be welcoming and nice. But then I'm like, I now know if you caught me on a wrong day,

I'd be like, oh, okay. I wouldn't be mean, but I'd be like, oh yeah, that was good. And then I would just move on because I now have all these new pressures in my life and then I realize it and then I feel guilty about it. Oh my gosh, yeah. And go, oh, why didn't I call that person? Oh, I'm not on social media. I can't contact them now and say they're really good.

Oh, maybe I should have said something, know and then you feel guilty so it's a smaller and that's what's nice about these shows and this another thing is like taking these little moments that you feel and then exaggerating them and putting a ton of stakes behind it yeah but the emotion is genuine it's a thing you know that Maribeth character is like me meeting a new person on SNL and going like, oh, that's good. Sure. And it's, and then me exaggerating it, going like, well, what if I was mean to him? What if I yelled at that guy?

What if I did this? God, how would I feel? And then, you know, take it to its other thing. What would I feel in that moment when someone's, you know, giving me respect, but it's for respect for something I don't, I don't respect myself for, you know, giving me respect, but it's for respect for something I don't, I don't respect myself for, you know? Stepping away from my conversation with Bill Hader to send a shout out to MeUndies Underwear.

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We have so happy birthdays. Oh, thanks, man. Sweet. So we're both gonna be we're gonna be 43 how do you feel about being 43 in relation to like you know where you come and where you're going because that my new show old man in the pool that i'm writing now for to come out and blah blah blah two three years from now um is all about middle age. Yeah. And getting on top, you know, over the hill, and you're on top of the hill, and you look around and go,

oh, there's natural causes. Like, they're not close, but they're coming. Yeah. And I have this joke where I go, like, you know, it's exactly halfway through my life. Not technically. Not everyone dies at 86, but no one's ever, like, 80 through 100. Those are the years.

Yeah, no one ever says they hit their stride at 96. Yeah, yeah. Oh, no, it's going to be. Yeah, but yeah, I know. How do you feel about it? How do you feel about your age in relation to like your career and your life and what you want to do? Well, I think I always just put it in terms of perspective of like,

well, when I hit 50, I'll go, God, couldn't you believe when I was 43? And I was on with Mike back in those days and I had most of my hair still. And God, 43 was beautiful. And then I'll be 60 and go, God, 50 was just amazing. You know, it's always that way. It's like when I was at SNL, I was a nervous wreck the whole time, and now it's all we talk about.

Anytime I talk to anybody associated with it, it's like, remember when we did this? Oh, my gosh. And so... And And of course, I'm so jealous of you even having that experience at all. I feel like when I watch you guys at SNL, I'm like, oh man, I wish I had a group of friends.

Just a single group of friends I could do bits with all day. Oh no, it's kind of that way. I always think it more in terms of the SNL 40th. I saw Gilbert Godfrey and I'd never met him before. And we looked at each other and I kind of nodded like, hi. And he went, I know, it's like we have the same disease.

Oh my God. It's like we have the same disease. I was like, yeah, no, I get that. Yeah, it is like we have the same disease it's like but yeah it's weird you know yeah and you start having like parts you know your body stops

working the way it usually does I have a very weird thing with my left eye I have like a weird autoimmune issue where I've lost vision in my left eye and I have to get treatments for it and all this stuff. And then it's like, you go, oh, I have a chronic condition, you know? And you're like, I'm at that age now where it's like, I'm on Humira, I'm on all this

stuff. And you're like, I'm on, I was talking to Larry Dave and he goes, so you're on one of those, you're one of those drugs that has all the side effects? I go, yes, Larry, I'm on one of the drugs that they could cause. He goes, you're on one of those. Oh my God, that's funny. Yeah, my doctor always tries to get me to go on a statin and I just don't want to do it. And it's always that thing where it's like,

to explain to people who don't know what statins are, it's like you know if to explain to people who don't know what statins are it's like the kind of catch-all middle-age yeah you know thing where you see commercials and they're like right you know it's called rats of slats of scats of fats uh ask for it by name and i'm like i'm pretty sure i'm not gonna remember the name rack slap of them yeah yeah but it's yeah i've had the same thing where it's like well if you take this it'll take out you know inflammation in your blood vessels and that's the issue you're having the blood vessels in your retina become inflamed and you're like yeah cool cool but it's weird to have like and i told my dad i was like yeah i got this eye thing this is like 10 years ago but it's been it came back during the pandemic so i'm like this is stress

related right and they're like yeah we don't have data on that and i'm like i'm gonna say stress related and they're like well the data doesn't show that and i'm like well the data's wrong i know i'm not a doctor. It's stress-related. And I told my dad, I was like, yeah, I came back. And he's like, yeah, man, you're just at that age, man. My dad's Jeff Bridges. No, I'm joking. Yeah, man, you're just not at that age, man.

Oh, my gosh. No, he was like, yeah, it's just stuff. Matt Stone told me that. I remember he was stretching a lot in the South Park room, and I would always give him shit for stretching. He's like, you wait, dude. Oh, my God, no. You wait.

Just wait. He goes, how old are you? And at the time, I'm like, I'm like 36. And he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, my gosh, no. You hit 41. Watch what happens, dude. Oh, no.

And he was right. Now I'm like, oh, my God. He's so right. Oh, God, no. I wake up. I'm like, he's so right oh god yeah i wake up i'm like knees not working oh no i never thought about my hip before in my life and everybody listening who's young just wait just wait yeah you know and then i have like younger writers at barrier younger people who work on the show and stuff and And I'll be like the same thing.

I'm like, yeah, they kind of want me to go on a statin. And they're like, why? That's dumb. And then they're like, why can't you just eat this ice cream, drink this beer, and smoke this cigarette with us? Yeah. And I'm like. Right.

That seems fun. That seems like an awesome time. If I do that, I will be in bed for two weeks. And now I'm at that. And now it's just like, you're just old, but it's just going to get worse. And that's how that goes. You had anxiety attacks when you were at SNL.

And I thought a heartwarming thing that I read was that when you had a panic attack like in a sketch that like Lorne was like said to you, I don't know how true this is, but said to you like, you can stay here at the show as long as you want. Oh, yeah. Which I thought was really heartwarming. Yeah, that was after my fourth season.

It was a Seth Rogen show. And I was really anxious, as usual, and his way of kind of telling me to calm down was like, you've got the job. Like, relax. And then I didn't really relax, and then I tried all these other things to relax, and then, as Mulaney likes to say, my eye exploded.

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Because then your eye exploded. And I was like, right. Oh, my God, no. Probably from stress. And then I started doing like TM, which helps. I started exercising and eating better.

And you just start to do all that stuff. That's what I mean though. If I was on social media in my 20s, I'd be like, for all these idiots doing meditation and eating right, I would totally, I say that constantly.

I would make fun of myself. The 20-year-old me would hate the 42-year-old me. I watch baseball and I listen to jazz. Yes. And I have, have and my meals are planned like i what day what times i eat during the day i'm so lame like i wrote this joke recently about aging which is i think if you enjoy i'm at this age where i'm like, I think if you enjoy 20 minutes of your day, I think that's pretty good. I think if you enjoy 30 minutes, you're basically a Buddha. When you cast a movie or TV show, you realize how many more great actors there are than great scripts.

A hundred percent. And that's why I learned to write because I, Jed Apatow, first thing he said to me, first meeting he had with me, my first season of SNL was like, you need to learn how to write. And I wrote, I would say seven really terrible scripts. No kidding.

I was just writing all the time and they were awful. And that's what prompted me to go, well, maybe I should go hang out here. What am I not getting? Wow. And they were all plot. I just realized it was all, and this happens and this happens

and here's this joke and this bit. And I'm not good at writing jokes. I'm not good at like, what like when I was at SNL, that's why certain people like Kristen or Fred or people like that could write on their own. And I needed Mulaney. I needed Simon Rich or America Sawyer. America, yeah.

And I needed people to me go, maybe something in this world or this, but that joke rhythm, that thing that when we were on train wreck, you and Schumer have that in spade and I would be watching it going like, oh God, they just have that rhythm where they know how to flip the sentences and it lands on a punchline. You know what I mean?

And I just find that so fascinating. So I'm always trying to and that's why I read the onion every morning yeah because it's like trying to like I I appreciate that so much where it takes you on a place where you think you're going here and then the last word and certain people just have that inbred in them and I didn't so I was writing sketches I was writing scripts I will say that were not funny. Yeah, yeah, totally. They were like situational.

You and I worked with this kid in Trainwreck named Evan Brinkman. He played my son, me and Brie Larson's son. And I don't know if you'd remember this, but we were doing like a crane shot on the water. And I'm not even, I don't think it's in the final. It's not in the final movie. Okay. Okay.

So, which is of course every movie or TV show is you do this totally elaborate crane shot and it's right at magic hour and all this stuff. It's not in the movie. I remember this. So we're walking along. It's me and you and Schumer and Evan Brinkman, who plays our son, and Brie Larson.

And you said you go in 20 years from now, we're going to look back on this and be like, remember that day we were walking along the water and it was Magic Hour you know look where these people have gone and what they've done in their careers and all this stuff and then evan goes evan who was like eight years old or ten years old goes like do you remember what he said no he goes like um yeah and they're gonna, there's Evan. Who are those other guys? And you were so generous.

You laughed so hard. And then you go, this is the funniest person here. Evan is the funniest person here. Look, there's Evan Brinkman. Who are those other guys? There's Evan Brinkman. Who are those other guys? Oh, I love that.

And then the other thing from that era is you came out I remember you because you were in New York at the time and you came over the house and it's a it's an inside joke to this very day you came over to our apartment and you did an impression of me for Jen and then Jen impersonates you doing me to this very day and literally it's just but it was my car day. And literally it's just, but it was my car. That was the impression. That's the impression. It's nothing I've ever said. I think the other one that I would do of you is,

and that's okay. And that's okay. I know that was the other one that, I don't know if you've ever said, but it was like a view. Oh my gosh. And that's okay I know that was the other one that I don't know if you've ever said but it was like and that's okay oh my gosh I just remember we had to do a scene

where in Trainwreck where it's a slow zoom in and you're telling me a story and I just have to listen to it do you remember that? and you would improvise something every time and it was so hard because I was trying so hard not to laugh

oh my gosh. You're killing me. Every time you did it, and I think we did it like, because Judd had us do it like 20 times, and I was like, I just remember having to stare at your chin and then stare at your shoulder because Judd was like, and he would come over to me, he's like, hey, man, you're smiling, I can see you smiling.

He's like, no, I can see it in your eyes, you're smiling, you can't be smiling. Oh, my God. And I was like, okay, all right see it in your eyes. You're smiling. You can't be smiling. And I was like, okay, all right. And then I would go back. And I remember you and I being really impressed with Brie Larson because we were like- She's phenomenal. She's like an actress.

And I remember there was a scene where I come in and I'm like the new boyfriend and I meet you guys. And then after we, and I go, did you see what she just did? She did this thing where she kind of acknowledged, like she of sized me up and you were like yeah yeah i caught that that was good like we were like that's acting yeah yeah that's acting oh my gosh and then you know three years later she wins an oscar yeah we're like oh five years later, you win an Emmy. And I'm doing a podcast. Oh, Mike. Oh, come on. It's not that big of a deal.

No, but I mean, it was very funny. I just remember laughing. I just remember laughing a lot. I just remember laughing a lot doing that thing. That was a joy. Well, that's the thing. You try to like go. Can I just tell you real quick the hardest you ever made me laugh?

Because everybody thinks, and I don't know if you might want to cut this if you don't like this story. But you did something, one of the hardest things I've ever laughed at in my life because you're so nice and you're so gentle and vulnerable and all this. And you wouldn't think that you could be

a full-on killer to somebody. And I don't know if you remember this, you and I were at an event and Pete Holmes was late to the event. Yes. Do you remember this? Sort of. And he showed up and he said,

sorry, everybody, I was late. Sorry, everyone, I was late. My flight was canceled. And and you said while drinking and turning away what a tbs cancel your flight because his show was just canceled by tbs and i fell out of my seat and aziz was like everybody thinks mike is so but man, he can be a killer if he wants. And I was like, that is one of the funniest, quickest things I had ever seen. And Pete, for the record, everybody died laughing and cruelly in Pete.

He wasn't, it was just like a great burn. It was a great burn in a way that was so fast that I just was like, whoa. It was just that thing where you're like, you have that gear too? You can do that? Wow, Mike, holy shit. That was so funny.

Oh my God. I just go, yeah, that was good. It's only, and I'm sure you experienced this too with SNL and all the writers rooms that you've worked in, but it's like, it's only the people you love that you can burn like that. Oh, absolutely. But it's my favorite thing is when people burn people like that it's my i laugh i laugh harder at charles barkley on inside the nba than like almost anything because all he does is burn people yeah super hard yeah and it makes me laugh because there's probably a part of me that is so terrified of doing that that I'm going to hurt someone's feelings or something or I will burn somebody.

And then the next day I have tons of guilt about it and go, oh, God. Someone burned you, I think, at one of the roasts. You can impersonate anyone and you can do any voice. Why did you choose that one? And you do a good me by the way oh yeah yeah yeah this is you did do a good you texted me about Conan when I had Conan on I

just go if I were gonna ask if I was gonna ask Conan I was like I just wonder if he's been in comedy for like, I don't know, 40, 50 years. Like, why? Why is he doing it, you know? Like, why?

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe it's just like I'm thinking about it. It's just me. Maybe I'm only thinking about it. But it's like, why does he do that? Why does he do comedy?

Why would he go to that? That's Fred's impression of me is me walking up to him, asking him, telling him I just got into a super well-known band. He's like, hey, I just got into the Allman Brothers. And he's like, hey, Bill, I just... I don't know why that's so funny. He's like, hey, because it's true, because I'll walk up to him and go,

hey, man, I just really started listening to Bob Marley. It's like really good. And he'll be like... Oh, my gosh. And he'll be like, hey, Bill, I just heard... He's like, hey, Fred, I just heard Bruce Springsteen for the first time. It's actually really good.

And like, he's always... fred i just heard bruce springsteen for the first time it's actually really good and like he's always but it's true yeah like a real i said you i know that's accurate because you sound like my sister stepping away from my conversation with Bill Hader, just a shout out to Helix Mattresses. Helix Mattresses are the most comfortable mattresses you'll ever lie on. I've been sleeping on a Helix Mattress for the past year. It's been fantastic. Everyone who stays with me, my in-laws, they came and they said

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it's a fun sleeping quiz and it matches you up with a customized mattress that'll give you the best sleep of your life. They have soft, medium, and firm mattresses. Mattress is great for cooling down if you sleep hot. And even a Helix Plus mattress for plus-size folks. Right now, Helix is offering up to $200 off all mattress orders and two free pillows for our listeners at helixsleep.com slash berbiggs. And now, back to the show. So we do this thing called the slow round, which is like, basically a lot of it's just like memories. Like, do you have a memory from childhood that you think about a lot, but it's not a story?

But it just keeps coming up. And you're like, maybe think about a lot, but it's not a story? But it just keeps coming up. And you're like, maybe that could be somewhere, but it just is a thing. Like a middle school or a grade school thing? Like, you know, getting in trouble? Yeah. I have a memory that I think about a lot. And it's probably because I have kids and I'm so protective. I have a memory of i think about a lot and it's probably because i have kids and i'm so protective i have a memory of missing my bus stop i was paying attention to something else and that

awful feeling of looking out my window and going i don't recognize any of the the neighborhood wait where are we and i remember the bus got on the freeway and I was like, oh God. Wait, you took the wrong bus? No, no, I got on the right bus, but it went, my house was like the second stop. And then it kept going and it went to the other side of town in Tulsa. And I just remember going like,

I'm on the wrong bus. And I had a stocking cap on and I didn't know how to like tell someone I didn't have the right bus. And so I pulled the stocking cap over my face. Oh just fell on my face and I just sat there and I was like, it was just one of those things where you had no idea what to do. So you just kind of wanted to like hide. And I wasn't like crying or scared. I just went, I don't know what to do. So I just had the stocking cap on my face. And then I remember my friend Tylon was like, Bill, what's wrong with you?

Oh, my gosh. That's so funny. And me being like, I missed my stop. And he's like, well, go up and tell the bus driver you missed your stop. Oh, my gosh. And so I always think about that because I feel like that image comes up to my head a lot, that thing. And I think it's totally because I have children and I want them to be, I don't know, it's connected to that somehow of having kids and wanting them to feel comfortable admitting like, hey, I'm lost. I need help. You know what I mean? Where I kind of came up with a thing where you didn't do that. It was just like, well, at some point he's going to notice everyone's off the bus,

and then I'm going to be like, my house is back at the second stop, and we'll just deal with it then. But I don't want to bother him right now. But the freak out of it, my way of dealing with it was putting my stocking cap over my face. It was just such a weird behavior, but very real. And I think that thing,

I think the other reason I keep thinking about it is I'm like, oh, that's the stuff I want to write. That's the, when I'm writing, that's what I'm trying to get to that. The specificity of it. The specificity and the uncomfortableness and the thing of like, I don't know if anybody's going to relate to this,

but that's what I felt and experienced. And so each time I do something or I sit and write, I'm always, I'm like, oh, I want to get to that weird thing that's complicated. And you can't describe it. You can't put your finger on exactly what it even means. It means, yeah. You don't even know what it means, but you go, well, I did that. And I told my best friend that story, and he fully got it. My friend Duffy, who writes on Barry, and he was like, yeah, no, I know that. Yeah, no, I know that. And I told my best friend that story, and he fully got it. My friend Duffy, who writes on Barry, and he was like, yeah, no, I know that.

Yeah, no, I know that feeling. Yeah, and you just want to hide or something. Yes. You don't want to deal with it. You don't want to deal with anything. You just want to put a hat over your face and be like, let's forget this ever happened. Let's forget this ever happened. As I get older, that stuff is really fascinating and interesting to me.

And that's the, whatever, the North Star that you're writing towards is that, getting to that place. And it's hard. It's hard to justify that when you're writing. That's what Bird by Bird, Anne Lamott says, is great. If you survived childhood, you have enough to write about. Yeah. Yeah.

No, it's true. It's everybody has one story, you know, the story of their life. And you just, you watch certain people and they're just kind of repeating that over and over and over again.

You know, uh, I'm reading, uh, this boy's life right now by Tobias Wolf, which I read before. And it's just great, you know,

just store, just things that behavior that kind of do move the story forward. But it's not like, it's not whatever the Robert McKee flipping polarities or whatever that is. It's just, oh, this is how this manifested in this behavior with this young boy

of feeling he needed to control his environment so he does whatever. I mean, I want people, you should go read the book. I don't want to blow anything, but. When you go to Tulsa, first of all, I looked it up. Chuck Norris, Brad Pitt, Bill Hader, Flaming Lips. Hanson, Garth Brooks. Hanson. Garth Brooks. Hanson.

Garth Brooks. Is that it? Yeah. Toby Keith, I think. Yeah, that guy. Yeah, you got some hitters. Do you have an Oklahoma hang? Do you ever hang?

You ever see those people? I'm friendly with... It's one of those things I have their numbers in my phone. Do you really? But I don't think I ever like it's one of those things I have their numbers in my phone but I don't really but I don't think I ever I have like Wayne Cowan from Flaming Lips like oh I could text him if I want to and we have texted a couple of times I mean the person that really helped you know uh you know I'll see people like Kristen Chenoweth and you go hey hey, you know, you're from, oh my God, wow. You know, you got out. Yeah. But, but anytime I go back to Tulsa, I'm always kind of, I admire where I came from so much

more than when I lived there. You know, when I lived there, it was like, oh, I want to get out, you know? And, and you see people there and, you know, I don't, you know, there's a good chance I don't agree politically with a lot of it, but they're very nice and polite and really proud of me, you know? Yeah. Which is really sweet. People come up going, hey, congratulations, you know?

Yeah. We're just so proud of you that you're from our city. Yeah. And that means so much, you know? Yeah. We're just so proud of you that you're from our city and that means so much, you know? And people who in a very good way don't give a shit. They just are kind of, you know, hey man, I know your sister, man, you know? How's she doing? Hey, your sister and I went to school together.

How's she doing, bud? He just wants to find out how my sister, and I'm like, she's good. She's like teaching and blah, blah. It's like, hey, that's good, man. Hey, man, what's going on? And it's like, there's bigger things in life than whatever, making stuff. But Jeannie Tripperhorn is from Tulsa

and I was friends with her. So her best friend was my friend's mom, LaVada Nichols. I was friends with Sam Nichols, LaVada Nichols, wonderful photographer and art teacher. And I went over to their house on Thanksgiving in 1995 and Jeannie Triplehorn was there. And I was like, wow,

first celebrity I'd ever seen in my life. Wow. And then the second celebrity was her boyfriend at the time, which was Ben Stiller. Oh my gosh. So I met Ben Stiller. And I was a huge-

That's a crazy story. Ben Stiller show fan. So I go, oh my God, the Ben Stiller show. And I talked to him and I sat next to them. This is when you were in high school I was 17 in Tulsa and so I tell him a story about I want to be a filmmaker and no and I had a short film made on video VHS in my car and I ran out to my car and I brought it in and I said here's my short film oh my god and he was very nice. And I remember

I might still have it. He wrote down on a piece of paper he recommended movies to me and it was Real Life by Albert Brooks and The Tenant by Polanski.

And I went, oh my God, I got to find these. And this is, you know, 1995. So it was, you know,

you can't, it was hard to find any of these things. And then he took me and Sam to go see Casino, the Scorsese film. And so I was on cloud nine for two months going, I met Ben Stiller and he treated me like an equal.

I made him laugh a couple of times. Oh my gosh. This is so insane. And then I got SNL 10 years later and got a phone call saying, Ben Stiller would like to have lunch with you. And I went to lunch, and the look on his face was like, how the hell did this happen?

Oh, my gosh. He went, what happened? How the hell did this happen? He's like, what happened? He goes, you're on Saturday Night Live? And I was like, and it was such a great, and I'd seen him one other time before that when I was

and then of course he put you in Tropic Thunder so then he was like I'm doing this thing Tropic Thunder you should come in and read for this part

and I'd love for you to come in and read for this part and I ended up getting it and then we did Night Museum 2 and now oh my gosh

and then the sweetest thing the end of that story is I was on SNL and we did Stefan and Zoolander on Update Together. So I'm dressed as Stefan. He's dressed as Zoolander, and we're waiting to go on,

and he turned to me, and he goes, do you remember when I met you when you were 17? And I go, yeah. And he goes, can you believe we're here right now? And I go, yeah, that is really wild. He goes, can you believe this? And he gave me a hug, and he was like, I believe we're here right now? And I go, yeah, that is really wild. He goes, can you believe this? And he gave me a hug, and he was like, I'm so proud of you, man. It was very sweet.

It was a very, very, very sweet guy. He's a very generous person. Yeah, he was very, very nice. I thought that was really, really sweet. He came back to SNL to play. Michael Cohen. Yeah. Yeah, I was in one of those sketches.

Yeah. So he was there and then I was backstage with him. And we had done Don't Think Twice where it was a fake Saturday Night Live and he was on the fake Saturday Night Live. And he just was like, this is weird that we're here.

Yeah, right. weird that we're here yeah right like he's not it's the same thing that yorma said about you which is like you're not he's not jaded by like this is crazy that we do this job and it's comedy yeah i can't believe every time i go to snl i can't believe, you know, like, you know, talking to Lorne Michaels. I can't believe that. I'm just like, this is insane. Just getting back to Tulsa, did you ever throw a punch or be punched when you were growing up? Yes.

I had my lower teeth, my lower front teeth are fake because I got punched. My gosh, really? really yes i got hit twice uh i won't name names because i'm sure i'm sure they're all outstanding adults now with families yeah but one was in a pool um uh over some stupid thing like when you're 11 and it's like, no, you did. Oh, pow, got hit in the face. And the other one was because a guy wanted my pumps at British Knight Pumps. Oh, Reebok Pumps. Reebok Pumps, Reebok Pumps.

Yeah, yeah. And I had those and this dude wanted them and just totally blindsided me and took my shoes off and my friend Maurice Boykins was going, just stay down, dude, just stay down.kins was going, just stay down, dude. Just stay down. Oh my gosh, just stay down. Just stay down.

Like this guy was really scary. And he was way older than us. And just took my shoes. And I was like, that's fine. You can take my shoes. It's totally fine. And even then, I think I was a freshman in high school or something or eighth grade, freshman high school. But even then it was like you dealt

with it by joking you were like you you can do that asked you could have asked you know i would have given them to you very well i am i am not and i remember being like i'm not angry lying on the ground oh my gosh i'm not angry at all i'm totally fine and then the adrenaline hit in like an hour later we were like oh, oh my God, that was awful. But yeah, I got, I, yeah, my friend Eric always likes to point out that I would point at places at my high school and go, I got hit there, I got hit there. I mean, I was exaggerating.

But I got punched twice pretty, pretty bad. And so these, I've had like a couple of surgeries on my lower front teeth because they were knocked out. Yeah. I'd have a root canal. I have some teeth stuff too. From being hit? From being punched. Yeah, from being punched.

What did you get punched for? I just went to Catholic school for ninth grade, an all-boys school where it was just like, yeah, it's the same kind of thing as name-calling with people who you don't know that well. And you think you know their friends, so you're all just goofing around. Next thing you know, like, you know, you're on the ground

and someone's punching you in the back of your head and you're jogging away going, okay, I'm going to head out now. You know, that kind of thing. But I agree. I know what you mean. Like, you make jokes about it because it's all you can do in the moment.

Well, you're terrified. And that's when I know I'm really terrified is if I start making jokes. Do you have a strange neighbor growing up? Or like someone in the neighborhood or anyone? I had a friend named Mark who lived behind me. His room was like Tom Hanks' room in Big. Like he was an only child

and like, I feel like he had a pinball machine and he might have had a trampoline in his room. Oh, wow. And I was like, this kid, you're gonna be my new best friend because your room is insane.

And then he said, let's build a robot. And I said, and I said, yeah, man, let's build a robot. And I said, yeah, man, let's build a robot. This is great. And then we built a robot out of just nailing stuff to a board, and that was the robot. I feel like where innovation and technology has not caught up

is that robots still do not bring us soda on a trip. Never. Never. They don't bring soda on a trip and they don't know where to go. They don't know the correct way to go either. In all those movies, there was a robot going, follow me, sir. And everything was like, sir, follow us.

Remember the movie The Black Hole and they had those floaty robots and they would be like, we know exactly where to get back to the ship, sir. And robots never know where to go. Stepping away from my conversation with Bill Hader to send a shout out to Green Chef. to send a shout out to Green Chef. As you know, I only have advertisers who I like the thing.

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Code 90 for bigs to get $90 off, including free shipping. Give it a shot. And now, back to the show. This is a new bit that I'm working on for the show and it's uh and it's I went to my doctor a few years ago and um he he told me he took my blood and he called me he said you have uh he said you have type 2 diabetes true story really and I yeah yeah and I and I've since reversed it mean, I wouldn't reveal that at this point in the story, but I've since reversed it. But I'd be the worst

storyteller ever. Like, I immediately take the air out of the tension in the room. So John F. Kennedy gets to Dallas where he's killed, and then he gets into the... And he gets into the car. He gets into the car and says, this is going to be a great. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He's waving and he's waving. And then out of nowhere. Yeah. And then they shoot him. And then after they shoot him, he's dead. And then after that. They're going, what happened? What happened?

And they go to the hospital. So my doctor goes, you have type 2 diabetes. And he goes, I'd like to put you on a statin, which I was mentioning earlier. And I go, I'd prefer not to take a statin because I'm a doctor also. And I just want to try changing my diet. And he goes, it'd have to be pretty drastic. You'd have to cut sugar, fries. And then I start thinking about sugar fries,

which apparently doesn't exist, but it should. It's a dynamic combination of two delicious items with a very obvious theme song like sugar fries sugar fries sugar fries sugar fries in my eyes and my doctor says are you listening to me and i said yes but i'm also listening to a song i'm composing in my mind about vegetables because i feel like it was too early to spring the sugar fries concept on so. I like that. Yeah, it's fun. Sugar fries.

Sugar fries, sugar fries, sugar fries. It writes itself. My director, Seth, had this idea the other day because we were kicking that bit around for the show of actually making sugar fries, like an artisanal. Like a musical? No, no.

No, no. Actual bag of sugar fries. Oh, that's hilarious. And selling them. Like getting an artisanal. Like a musical? No, no. Oh. No, no. Actual bag of sugar fries. Oh, that's hilarious. Yeah. And selling them. Like getting an artisanal, like Brooklyn Baker to make sugar fries. No, because you know, Bill, those would be excellent. They would be amazing.

And then we should sell them in concessions at the show. From a guy who had type 2 diabetes. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. You should call had type 2 diabetes. Exactly, exactly, exactly. You should call it type 2 diabetes. That's the name of the... Oh, gosh. Yeah. And then I got another thing,

which is about how I have an issue because I travel. One of my eating problems is that I travel and I do shows, and then afterwards i'm hungry and and healthy food goes to bed early healthy food's like i'm gonna head in for the night i got a big morning it's responsible nutrients yeah yeah and and and unhealthy foods like i'm gonna hang i saw a microwave down by the street and might pop in.

And then, so like I always end up in the mini bar of my hotel in places like Tulsa. And I've never drank the liquor bottles, but I'm triple digits on glass jars of peanut M&Ms. Yeah, that's bad news. Which is the most sexiest, most artisanal packaging for the least artisanal snack food item. And the thing about peanut M&Ms is if you suck on them long enough,

they're just peanuts. And if you suck on those peanuts long enough, you can taste pure shame. And at a certain point, the shame starts to morph into pride. And then you start thinking, oh, I should have been meaning to eat more nuts. You know, nuts are healthy. And then you pop a couple hundred. Yeah, it's got protein.

And then you pop a couple hundred. And then you end up with type 2 diabetes, which is an unfortunate outcome. That's the sugar fries. Do you say in the moment, well, that didn't work? Or are you trying to make a joke out of it? The shows I'm doing right now, I call them working it out or working it outside if it's outdoors. And I'll call out the idea that actually,

and this podcast is the same thing it's like what's fun about this is that this will never happen in this exact way again yeah yeah and like that there's something great about that and sometimes people really dig that like you and I are both like nerds of comedy like it when

you're seeing like you came actually to see one of my working it out shows early version of girlfriend's boyfriend Union Hall in the basement. Yeah, with Mulaney. Whatever. Yeah, you and Mulaney, like, 12 years ago. Yeah, yeah. And I feel like for someone like you, like, or you and I, like, we both and John, like, we all dig watching the early version.

Yeah, you like to see what changed. And I did that with Book of Mormon. I saw that for three years before it came out because they were workshopping it. And you saw how so much of the first half initially took place in Utah. Oh my gosh. And then they realized like all this Utah stuff,

which was hilarious, just wasn't moving the story forward. And it taught me like, oh yeah, you gotta be really tough with your material, you know, or I, one of the coolest things is like become friendly with George Saunders and talking to him about how he writes his short stories and him saying, oh, I'm just honing it and honing it down to the last word. There's actually a video of it where he will take you through a process of cutting things down to its most.

And you go, oh, that's why your stuff works so well for me because it is just, you're reading the most essential version of something, but he had to have the giant mound of clay that he had to mold and throw out, mold and throw out, you know? And I love, I'm fascinated by that stuff. Yeah, and so like, I don't harp, to answer your question,

like I don't harp on the fact that a joke doesn't work. I'll just sort of, sometimes I'll do a throw away and I'll go like, and you're the only audience that has ever seen that joke. I have two quick things that are specific to you one of them is I wrote I have this because you're a cinephile do this because it's like I know this might end up being like a part of an essay it might whatever but it's uh sometimes sometimes life is like a movie your friend dies and it's crushing but then part of you well, I guess he wasn't the protagonist.

But I, and then I wrote a string of them. I wrote, sometimes life is like, sometimes life is like a Pixar film. It's so good. And then you think, what age is this for? And then I wrote, sometimes life is like a documentary.

You think it's about a comedian, and then you realize it's about the uncle who molested the comedian. And I have two more. Sometimes life is like an independent film and you're like, I get that it's low budget, but why would there only be 14 people at a basketball game? And then if it ends up being an essay, the final line I have, which is where this sprang from,

is life is like a movie that's too funny to be true and too sad to watch again it's true yeah this is a this is a thing i i have i for the i love the southern accent um every once in a while i run into into a Southern accent where it is unintelligible and I do not know what to do. I was at an airport in Georgia and this lady shouted from 30 feet away. She goes, to the best of my memory, she goes, And I said, what? And she goes, and I thought, oh no.

And I'm just trying to look for the context clues because you can't ask what twice. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm like, okay, okay, well, I'm wearing a hat. You know what I mean? Like, I'm wearing a hat. Maybe this is about the hat.

And so I go, yeah, this is some kind of, I point my hat, this is some kind of hat. And she disagreed. She goes, nah. The hat. And I smiled and I waved and I thought, I guess we will never know each other. Dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, hat. Oh man, I love that.

Have you ever had that with accents in the South where you're just like, I just don't know what you're saying. I'm so sorry. I don't think so. I mean, Oklahoma, it's like right in the middle. So it's like, we kind of, we get a little bit of everything. I did have, I remember I had like, I get migraines and I have these things called hemiplegic migraines

where you kind of have a stroke symptom. One side of your body just goes numb and you're like, okay, I can't talk. And then that lasts for like an hour and then you get the migraine. And I remember I was in Oklahoma and we know emts the first time i ever got one and they came in and the first woman came in and she said all right which side of your head's broke oh my god and i was like can i it's broke can I please talk to someone else? She just went, all right, which side are you in, bro?

And I was like, I can't talk to you. I'm very sorry. This isn't going to work. You got to go talk to, I need someone else. That's so good we end on a segment called working it out for a cause

and basically our guest chooses a non-profit that you think is doing a particularly good job and we link them in the show notes

and I contribute I love Julianne Moore has a non-profit called every town for gun safety that i really that's a great i really love and uh i uh i just uh feel like everybody should uh donate to it get on their email lists and see uh their texting lists, you know, whatever. And I know a lot of people find it funny that I play a hit man and this is my favorite charity. But I also feel like if you watch Barry, nothing necessarily good comes out of what he does.

Yes. And also, you know, I um barry plays all over the country in our country like the onion headline which is my favorite thing like nothing can be done about this as only country where this regularly happens yes yeah and uh so uh yeah it's something I think is a worthwhile thing. Again, it's not saying get rid of it. It's gun safety. And I think Julia Moore and all the people over there are doing a great job. Awesome. Awesome.

Well, I will contribute to them, and I will encourage people to contribute as well. We're going to link in the show notes. Bill, thanks for coming on. Man, thanks for having me. This is awesome. I love your podcast. So I feel like I just auditioned for it. You got it.

That's going to do it for another episode of Working It Out. Bill Hader is unfollowable. You can't follow him on Twitter or Instagram or Facebook. He's not on social media. So just check out the first two seasons of Barry on HBO if you haven't already. And I can't wait to see

season three. And thanks for listening. This has been quite a journey. We're about a year into this project and we are just, we're pushing ahead. If you're liking the podcast, subscribe to it. Make sure you subscribe. And if you throw us some stars

and some nice words of encouragement, we really appreciate it. We all read it at the show and the staff of the show. The staff of the show is myself, along with Peter Salamone as well, as Joseph Birbiglia, consulting producer, Seth Barish, sound mix by Kate Balinski, associate producer Mabel Lewis, special thanks to my consigliere, Mike Berkowitz,

as well as Marissa Hurwitz and Josh Upfall. Special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers for their music. They have great new music out right now. As always, a special thanks to my wife, the poet J-Hope Stein. Our book, the new one, Painfully True Stories from a Reluctant Dad, is a nice little Father's Day gift. And Father's Day is right around the corner, as they say. And you could go to your local bookstore, and you could go to your local bookstore and you could support your local bookstore

and you can support your local dad. I'd say chances are your dad isn't local. But you can support your local dad or your regional dad or your international dad. And give your dad the gift of the new one. As always, a special thanks to my daughter, Una, who helped create my radio fort.

Thanks most of all to you who have listened and are listening and have been listening for this whole year. Please tell your friends. Oh, don't forget to tell your enemies. We're working it out. See you next time.