Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 51. Jim Gaffigan: We Met in 1997 at a Pizzeria

Episode Date: August 23, 2021

Mike met Jim Gaffigan in 1997 when he cold-called Jim’s landline. They went out for, of course, pizza and Jim gave him advice that Mike has not only used but also shares with others. The two comics discuss the insanity of charging large pizza prices for mediums size gourmet pies, deciding not to curse on stage, and what happens when a non-political comedian has had enough. It’s Jim Gaffigan like you’ve never heard him before. https://www.theimaginesociety.org/

So, all right, admit it, you resent doing these. Like, initially, you were like, all right, I'm raising money to help waiters and waitresses, but now I'm kind of like, all right, I'll plug my shows, but how many more are you going to do of these? Hey, everybody. We are back with a new episode of Working It Out.

This is your host, Mike Birbiglia. We have one of the most exciting episodes we've ever had today. And it turned out fantastic. There's all kinds of twists and turns. Speaking of twists and turns, this fall I'm on tour making all kinds of twists and turns across America. I'm twisting to Belmore, New York and Long Island. I'm turning to New Haven. I'm twisting to Philadelphia. I can't keep this up. Austin, Texas, Dallas, Texas, Boston.

Madison, we just added Milwaukee at the Pabst Theater. Denver. And we just announced that we're requiring a proof of vaccine or a negative COVID test within 48 hours of coming to the show in as many of these theaters as possible. It's, of course, theater to theater and city to city, state to state. But we are working. And in many cases, like in Austin and Milwaukee, it's been it's working in New Haven. They're they're into it in Bloomington, Indiana. They're they're into been, it's working. In New Haven, they're into it. In Bloomington, Indiana, they're into it, which is great.

And so we're just trying to do these as safely as possible and bring the comedy to America. Speaking of bringing comedy to America, our guest today is Jim Gaffigan. Jim and I met, I cold called Jim in the 90s. I've known him for over 20 years. He needs no introduction.

If you've seen his specials on Comedy Central or Netflix or Amazon, I mean, he is a beast of comedy. He's invented a genre of comedy. He's created imitators of his comedy unintentionally just because he's so darn good. We have this great conversation. I think this is nothing like other interviews I've heard of Jim Gaffigan. It just feels

like this private conversation between me and Jim and I think that's what's fun about this show. We really get into the nuts and bolts of comedy and what we love about it and what we're fascinated by about comedy. So I hope you enjoy my conversation with the great Jim Gaffigan.

I'll tell you my honest to goodness feeling about the podcast because I get asked this on social media all the time. They're like, are you going to keep doing it after the pandemic? social media all the time. They're like, are you going to keep doing it after the pandemic? And it is an extraordinary amount of work on top of the fact that

now that shows are back and I'm touring and you're touring, it's like, oh, I do the podcast and I do shows. But then, to be honest with you, Jim,

like, I get to talk to you. We don't talk for an hour at a time. Sometimes we'll talk for 20 minutes. We should, but we don't talk for an hour at a time. Sometimes we'll talk for 20 minutes. We should, but we don't. Yeah, that's the only thing that I'm jealous of people that have podcasts.

It's like you want to have these conversations, particularly as you travel and once you're touring. Because initially you tour and you can work with a couple comedians. And then if you're lucky enough, you get to the point where you're touring with one person. And so I don't hang out at the cellar. And then if you have a kid or a wife, it's like, how do you sit there and justify after you've been gone? Well, you know what's funny about you is like-

My body? My body's funny. My body's funny and my bald spot's funny. Yes, your body and your bald spot, yes. No, you know what's funny about the way we met, which is it's very old-fashioned. Oh, yeah. Which is I called your landline in the 90s.

Yes, because through the alumni group. Through the Georgetown Alumni Association, I was in college. It's so, you know know there's so there's so much about I try to do a joke about this and I can never make it work like people are so excited about the past you know like people like they're good all day so I'm like I'm not thrilled it's not like I you know like yeah there's there might be times where i'm embarrassed of my behavior if i was drunk or something like that but like like the past i'm not a fan of it i'm like you know like nostalgia is i don't know it's weird it's just like one of those things where i'm like

you know what i mean it's like my 20s i when we met, I was like dating a woman that wasn't my wife. You know what I mean? But like, it's like, I haven't talked to her in 25 years. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's just so weird. Like there's something about the human experience where I think we look back or humans have the ability to look back and only look at the positive things. But when I look back, I see the entirety of it. It's like I remember horror of like bombing, the horror of alienation.

You know, it's like stand-up is far more acceptable. I was like, the only college guy, I felt like everyone else was, you know, I remember, I was described as like a khaki comic by, by somebody, I, you know, I don't want to say, but like, it was like, now is predominantly college educated. But I think back then it was not or it was people pretending that they weren't. I agree with you. I think one of the things that people don't realize about stand-up is that because it's so popular right now, it's very mainstream stand-up comedy. Yeah. When you and I started in the 90s, it actually wasn't mainstream.

No, it actually was. it was a bad idea. It was like, it was, there had been this boom in the 80s. That's right. And where it was so bad that it was, it was a joke on, you know, on The Simpsons, like being a stand-up comedian was like it was ridiculous and everyone that did it like i mean i i'm older than you and i you know but like it was mostly people that were mentally ill like there were like you would not tell people like when you were telling people that you were doing stand-up they're like whoa whoa whoa whoa you know like you're a bright intelligent guy why don't you work for a magazine? Do you know what I mean? Why don't you

write? If you said, I'm going to do these Broadway one-man shows, that would have been different. But at that point, you were just doing stand-up. And people were like, what? When I did open mics when I was in college at the Best Western in Tyson's Corner, Virginia, I mean, half of the people were, I'm like, you're a comedian? This is not viable as stand-up. This material is not. And I don't know if, and they did not think I was funny. I mean, it was mutual. No, no.

When we started, Comedy Central was kind of beginning to resonate. There were definitely comedians. There were great comedians. When I started, there were all these. The generation right above me was so good, I couldn't get stage time. But the audience was not so much trained. So in other words, satellite youtube comedy central with like specials but like so the audience didn't know how to respond so like when people are like

why is there kind of this sense of combat comedy among comedians that started in the early 90s it's because it was combat because the audience didn't like when yeah bill burr went up like if you're like a red-haired guy who would go on stage or a blonde-haired guy you had to figure out something because in that crowd you were going on at midnight these people didn't watch comedy central these people this was like the comedy cellar was like a different place. It was just, you know, this cool Israeli guy had a room. You know what I mean? It wasn't the preeminent comedy club in the country. And so, you know, whether it's Kevin Brennan or Louis C.K. or Dave Attell,

it's like you see it in that performance style of people from the 90s and it, the early 90s, and it shifted, like you and I are very kind of similar in that, like, there's a vulnerability, which is kind of an aspect which is important to ours. But like vulnerability, when I first started was considered like absolute weakness. It was just- Oh yeah, absolutely. Weakness was just something to be, that the audience would pounce on. And you obviously, you know,

like working at the comic strip when you first got to New York, it's like, you would see that. I mean, this is before Obama. I think Obama changed everything. Do you think for comedy? I remember in the early 90s going on stage

at the comic strip and there would be tables of it was like the division was pretty pronounced where like if you would go on stage the only person I ever saw that would get the whole room would be Louis Black because he was a crazy white

guy. Right. I think i think what you're describing reminds me of the early 2000s when i used to play the comic strip on the upper east side yeah it would be the the crowd would be a little bit segmented yeah and that yeah the black comics would do well with black audience and the white comics would do well with white audience and it really was this very stratified experience yes absolutely and so but i think also performing in that environment did provide uh some strength you know it's weird because i always think of like you know like i remember one time i was at the comic strip and i went on and jeff foxworthy was already the biggest thing in the world

and Jeff Foxworthy was there and he goes yeah they never they never got me and he's like the nicest guy in the world but like I was like oh that's right Jeff Foxworthy was in New York and I'm like what he was he was in New York I don't know if he did spot but like you can't He was in New York. I don't know if he did spot, but you can't go up through stand-up and not go through New York and L.A. And I was like, oh. And of course, people should know that if they don't know, Jeff Foxworthy is like the blue-collar comedy tour that he created.

It's so fascinating because also he was an IBM executive. You know what I mean? So he was this blue-collar sensibility, but he was also college-educated. So New York, you did more in D.C., but I feel like when I started middling, because I never really did that much road. I'm just telling you everything in five minutes,

but I never did that much by the way middling middling is the is the opening act that goes after the host but before the headliner which is which is by the way a perfectly fitting title middling yeah and but like middling and I would go to the DC Improv, I mean, the great audiences, great staff, great management, great. I know you worked there, but just cross the board. And what people don't realize is that as comedy has become more, you know, embraced and people have become educated, it's moved away from the fringes. You know, like there were those rooms where you'd be like, I don't know if I'm going to get paid. You know, there was a legendary story of a guy in Milwaukee that would put a gun on the table. Oh, yeah. Though I've heard that story a hundred times.

The story used to go that a guy in Milwaukee, we won't say who would like was sort of mob tied and he would put a gun on the table and sort of negotiate with a gun on the table when he was paying the comics for the week. Oh yeah. That was a big thing. And that's where it's so weird. Cause the different journey you have uh through this

process and that's why when people ask me like any advice i'm like well it's changed 16 times since i've come up like when i used to do open mics it was just for other comedians and many of them were mentally ill and, you know, great people, but like, yeah, it's like, I don't know. It's weird. So it's very hard. Yeah. It's very hard to explain. So, so to circle back to the way I met you is I went to Georgetown. I was working the door at the Washington DC improv. I knew I wanted to try to be a comedian. I went to the alumni house. I looked up comedy and the only name in the history of Georgetown in the alumni house was Jim Gaffigan. I called your landline. You picked up. It was the nineties. You said, wow. Yeah. It's so crazy. I go, hey, Mike Birbiglia, I'm a comedian. I'm trying to be a comedian. I go

to Georgetown and you go, well, if you're ever in New York, we can go to lunch, and I'll talk to you about it. And then I lied. I told you I was going to be in New York. Of course, I wasn't. I took a bus, and I met you on the Upper West Side at Patsy's Pizzeria. And I was late. You were two hours late and I stayed. And people, whenever I tell people this story,

they go, why'd you stay? I go, I had nowhere to go. It was the only reason I came to New York was to meet Jim. Yeah. But we went to lunch and I quote things. This is how memory is funny. I quote advice that you said to me at that lunch to this day. And because there's a certain thing about memory where you remember what you remember.

And so I remember you said to me, you go, Mike, you go, don't move to New York. It's some of the best advice you could ever give a comedian. Don't move to New York until you're good enough because people will judge you in show business the first time they see you and the judgment will last forever. Yep. And if you're listening to this

and you're starting out in comedy in Seattle or Denver, wait, wait to move to New York or Los Angeles. No, I tell you, I think I really, I struggled with that. I mean, look, the entertainment industry is, there's so many things, and we're constantly learning things, but it is, it's the perception industry, right? Yeah. It's not nuts and bolts. It's really kind of what someone perceives. So, like, I mean, that's where, like, Letterman thinking I was funny changed.

It's, like, dumped over the whole table. And then everyone was like, I always thought you were. That's hilarious. And it's also, like, the whole idea that, you know, the thing about the entertainment industry is that, like, there's, you know, this is what's so fun about podcasts because this is what comedians talk about also is the entertainment industry, you always hear, oh, it's all about money. It's not about money. It's not about money at all. It's about status. And so there is this – the entertainment industry is so risk averse.

So that's the point about be ready, because the whole romantic notion of someone being, you know, discovered at a soda shop is not only a myth. It's it's it's a very misleading lie. not only a myth it's it's it's a very misleading lie it's the opposite of the uh 10 years to become an overnight success right right it's just it also helps it's a more interesting narrative in the story like that's another thing that i think is really interesting is that when you get into stand-up the and you you have some success then there's these interviews with great reporters some of them interesting some of them uh fascinated by the topic some of them just doing a gig you know what i mean and i think it's fascinating how you have to steer the interview and you also have to create a backstory so you have to create this story. You're like, all right, I guess it's the

Letterman was my hero my entire life story. Yes, that's right. That's right. Or I was just, you know, or like, you know, I met Jim Gaffigan at a coffee shop, like someone writing, you know, we're both writers. They need a hook hook they need a story about the person who's telling you the story um the other piece of advice you gave me at that pizzeria by the way uh which is smart and i mostly stuck to is that you don't have to curse yeah uh you know you said it to me in the 90s you said that to me and i i've heard this quoted back to you before yeah which is you've described uh cursing and comedy as sort of the steroids of stand-up comedy. I don't think that's wrong.

Yeah. I mean, it's also, it's about what's authentic, right? So, like, it's authentic for Bill Burr or Louis Black to say fuck and shit. Yes. It's, but if you're somebody who new york city's changed so much i remember when i moved to new york i was working in advertising and i could not believe how much people were cursing and obviously i curse all the time but if i'm having a conversation with someone in a setting, you know, I always describe it this way.

It's like where I grew up, people would curse. But if you were, you would curse if you stubbed your toe. You would curse if you were very angry. But you could think of an adjective that's unnecessary it's not like people are frightened of curse words and it's it's very much regional so i don't know maybe in uh your town in massachusetts people fucking cast all the time you you're of course from indiana but like people through my career just thought i was from the Midwest. Cause I talk like someone who's from the Midwest. I'm sure you get this too.

And it's a very, I always think it's like this generic white guy thing. Not only do people think I'm from the Midwest, which I am, but people pretty much universally with the exception of Hawaii, think I'm from their state and then also think I'm from their city. So I'll go to Cleveland. People will be like, you're from Cleveland. And I'm like, no, I'm not. I'll go to Alaska.

People are like, you're from Alaska, right? And it's almost like I'm this prototype of a white guy where people are like, well, obviously, you're from New Mexico. And I'm like, no, I'm not from New Mexico. You know what's funny? You also told me at that lunch. I remember everything you said. We ate at Patsy's Pizzeria. I remember we held hands. Do you remember that?

We held hands. We split a salad. And you told me, are you taking acting classes? And I said, I am taking acting classes. He goes, good. He goes, good. I say to you, he goes, good. You said, good.

You said, because what we're doing as comedians is acting. Yeah, you know, it's really interesting. That's good advice. No, no, it is good advice and it's here's my thing about comedians i think because i'll say this i mean i i really do love acting i mean it's something that i really enjoy and i love i love the minutia of building a character. I love being a partner with these creative people. I love kind of helping someone achieve a vision and stuff like the whole indie film thing. I love. But all these comedians are actors.

But you see it because comedians are also known as some of the worst actors is because there's an inability to open up to other things. I think it's an inability to listen. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, it might be that. Because they're acting. Do know i mean and i don't want to say any names but uh but like just they're doing brilliant characters and then i would have them uh do a guest spot on my show and i'd be like what i thought for sure that you'd be it's you know because in some ways you know i took all these acting classes but i'm kind of i'm kind of like the student type anyway but but it's shocking when and and

you're right it probably is listening but it is also just it's an inability to just open up to doing something different. Like there's that, um, it's weird. Cause I also have this theory about comedians that, um, if we've ever gotten, cause we talk occasionally the,

uh, like there's decades and there's comedians that there's comedians that can do one special. There's comedians that can do one special. There's comedians that can span one decade. Because stylistically, things are changing constantly. But I think the decade thing is really interesting. Because that's similar to acting. Like, they can't adjust.

They can't, okay, we're not going to say the F word. You'll see comedians go, I'm out. And you're like, are you kidding? Are you, are you kidding? It's like, that was your line. Do you know what I mean? It's, it's like, you know, there's something very strange about, uh, I mean, as I'm not saying anything that you don't agree with. I mean, there's something so I'm so grateful to be part of this community of comedians. I'm so grateful to be associated with an art form that is associated with standing up to censorship, whether it be Lenny Bruce or George Carlin. other side and this is probably this would get me in trouble because like i there is like the reality

is is that there is a tinge of censorship in every single person's stand-up so in other words when people are like i believe in no censorship i'm like that's. You're obviously censoring yourself. We censor ourselves in front of individual audiences. Like, I did a show last night, and it's like it was the fourth show back. And it's weird. You hear a laugh, and then you edit based on that laugh. And that editing is censoring it, going, all right, they're not interested in anything that has to do with religion. So I'm going to just cut and shift. And so it's weird because on one hand, I totally appreciate the importance of standing up I think I do think any topic could be funny. But that being

said, I also think that it's the rare bird that can pull off a joke about abortion. It's the very rare person that can make suicide funny. Do you know what I mean? That's not to say that. And so like, when everyone steams in, when all comedians steam into topics, I'm like, you got, you know what I mean? That's not to say that. And so like when everyone steams in, when all comedians steam into topics, I'm like, you got, you know, it's not about staying in your lane. It's about your skillset. Stepping away from my conversation with Jim Gaffigan to send a shout out to my favorite mattress in the world. That's right, Helix. Helix mattresses are so comfortable. Why are they so comfortable?

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I'm thinking of getting you a helix because of Berbiglia. Is this true? Does he really like these mattresses that much? And I do. I do. That's it. That's the ad. Now back to the show.

One of my comedy nerd talks is there's different types of prototypes of comedians. So in other words there's the the preacher the clown do you know what i mean like so mark cohen was a clown the preacher chris rock is a preacher and uh robin williams is sort of a clown i guess right and then there's um the surrealist like stephen wright yeah bill burr, Chris Rock are like preachers. Yeah. Yeah, Louis Black is a preacher, right? And I also have this thing where I'm a big believer in that comedy has an aftertaste.

Have I ever told you about this? That there is, this is, I believe that there is, I describe it like this. Like we all have friends that are – whether they're male, female, it doesn't matter. But they're super bitchy. They're super bitchy. They come in and they tear people apart. And it's funny, but there's an aftertaste.

And the aftertaste is a certain amount of guilt and also – Yeah. Do you know what I mean? So by the way, you're – I love this analysis. This is phenomenal analysis. This is where it's a little bit – you do this anyway. So this kind of goes back to – I remember I was in the 90s.

The guy who, I won't say his name, he's a director, but he had the same therapist. So I would go to my therapist and I'd walk out and I'd see him occasionally. I was like, holy. And so I gave him a tape of my stand-up. And he essentially told me, he goes goes it's funny stuff it's pretty mean and i go what do you mean mean and i had all this stuff about and it was me it was mean to models and i was like yeah but they're models interesting and so he was like yeah but it's still mean and i was like oh that's so interesting we talk extensively about

this with my show thank god for jokes way back when which is basically that all jokes have a target and it's somebody and so this idea of like that that there's no that jokes can have no targets there's not that many that don't have a target of some kind right right it's also uh this is another tangent but i did a corporate event with brian regan uh and it was um i don't know it was like uh 15 years ago and obviously brian regan's one of the greats, one of the amazing greats. And it was a co-headline thing. It ended up where he ended up going on first and I ended up going on after him. They wanted it all clean.

And he killed. And then I went on after. And they just thought I was mean. Because compared to Brian, my sarcasm, do you know what I mean? Like, he was bringing more light. And compared to him, I was cynical, sardonic. And it was the, anyway, what was i talking about before that i can't remember we're just talking about about talk about jokes like models like you oh yeah you're the the

director friend said your joke some of your jokes are mean and you're like yeah but it's models and models you can make whatever and i know you mean there's certain people you think well they can take it because they're a big successful blank. They're a successful actor. They're a successful model, whatever it is. I know what you mean by that. I mean, some of it is also kind of like context. It's so fascinating how we understand things. put down humor and this is nothing to do with a roast because that's almost kind of a separate

thing is that when i have these prototypes of comedians one of them is the the um the gossip the gossiper whether it be kathy griffin you know it's all these people the thing is is like they fly up and then they land and the problem is because comedy is sensibility is always changing those targets in the end they're human right and so in the end there's always a reveal of more of the story that makes them more human, which only makes the joke look more cruel. Like, look at the way society treated Chelsea Clinton, Monica Lewinsky, Britney Spears, and there's just a certain amount where I think we know, we kind of know that there's there's some humanity behind it but we kind of

love the quick jab but so anyway I think that there's a comedy aftertaste so like if you bring light because it also parallels with comedy being kind of evergreen so like what and i think your comedy is like this too and it's not by design on my behalf it's just kind of luckily it comes out that way but like comedy specials it's amazing how they a lot of them don't age well do you know i mean like Bob Newhart's age well. Jonathan Winters ages well. You know what I mean? But like, I mean, Bill Hicks. I remember seeing Bill Hicks and he was brilliant. But like you listen to it now and you're like the amount of like just flat out homophobia is just like it seems like something out of a cartoon, you know, a cartoon character of someone who hates gays.

So that's the whole – Yeah, no, I mean one of the only – a lot of your albums hold up really well, and a lot of Mitch Hedberg's stuff holds up really, really well. Totally. like social satirists that are dealing with politics, you know, like as brilliant as Louis Black is, it's like if he's talking about, you know, Dick Cheney shooting himself, it doesn't hold the weight that it did that year. Well, I have a specific theory about this, which is, I mean, it's not my theory,

but it's just that as comedians, we're always trying to find the line of what's appropriate versus what's inappropriate and then go right to the edge. And that's why people use the phrase edgy. If the person's edgy, they're close to the edge. And the problem with that in terms of the comedy dating itself is that the line just moves and in the last 20 years the line has moved a lot yeah well by the way i think that not only has it moved but there's also what the audience

appreciates has shifted so in other words yeah the uh i remember i did an interview with larry king i don't want to brag but i was on larry king's show and he was uh he goes when i was first when i used to do stand-up i used all the questions i had for comedians were, why are you so filthy? And now I'm asking you, why are you so clean? So like things change. So it's not just like what's acceptable or the line. It's also what the audience is interested in. Cause here, let me also explain this, that like when i started in stand-up there was the comic strip was very much a jokesmith area so like yeah we're what we would consider seinfeld and the original improv which believe it or not was when i started was still open so like like brett butler was this autobiographical storyteller whereas um a joke teller like seinfeld's the classic example of an observation he hates it

when i call him an observational comedian because i just do jokes what's the and so but so like the some of those go in and out of favor do you know what i'm saying sure so people are more interested in like we see it in one person shows people get more interested in like they're every 10 years there's like a character show right there's the danny hawk there's this yeah i mean there's like a character show, right? There's the Danny Hawk. Of course. You know what I mean? There's always kind of like, this person's doing all the characters. That's right. And then there's also the-

Yeah, Bridge and Tunnel. Bridge and Tunnel was like that. Yes. Sarah. Sarah Jones. Sarah Jones. Yeah, Sarah Jones. And then, of course, there's Leguizamo,

who does a ton of characters. And, you know know and so like Leguizamo did it probably Whoopi Goldberg did it probably the best of anybody yeah it's weird so it's always changing so I remember thinking during the pandemic oh my gosh I don't know what it's gonna be like and I again just i brought this up in an interview i'm like is it going to be is it going to return to the combat comedy of the 90s where people are going to be more outspoken if it ever opens up right if it opens up and it might not be the comedy seller because that now has a level of mystique that is so it attracts comedy diehards do you know what i'm saying oh yeah but that that comedy combat of people wanting to you know you

see it in in uh you know just the discourse in our country it is is very combative. Well, I think that I've noticed a trend recently on social media with comedians I follow, which is that I think stand-up comedians are trending right-wing, whereas they used to trend left-wing. And of course, I'm sort of being anti-Trump during the Trump years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's as political as I ever got. I mean, I didn't want to get political.

I just felt like, I thought it was a five alarm fire. Yes. No, well, that's, we connected over this during the middle of it. It's just, there was a certain point where you were like, I mean, I was at home with my kids and I was like, a certain point where you were like i mean i was at home with my kids and i was like i know it doesn't change anything or supposedly that you know it's not motivated by ego it's like i just want to go on the record and say yeah i'm against the monster because i've got these kids and they're watching me. And, you know, it's more important than selling out another show in blank city. Trust me. That's why I hated, and you and I were in the same boat. That's why I hated for four years tweeting about Trump because I don't want to talk about Trump.

I don't want him in my life. trump i don't want him in my life and so me talking about it is me genuinely being like i give up i have to say something about this because i i can't even have a decent i can't sleep with a decent conscious without saying something about this this is right you have to like you have to go on the record yeah well i mean i did this rant about trump and everyone was like you were wasted and i wasn't at all yes i saw that and uh you will famously if people don't know jim went had a twitter rant that went sort of national i think there's like a cnn article about it because your audience similar to mine is all over the country it's everywhere it's red states it's blue states we tour everywhere bob and tom we love you know what i mean yeah bob and tom audience we you know

we like people and and it was hard for me is that people will say to me like oh it must be hard doing gigs in the middle of the country i go no it's great i love it the middle i love the middle of the country i love the south i. I love Texas. Yes, absolutely. So the Trump thing was disconcerting for me because I was like, no, no, these people in these states are not bad people. There's just a weird cult of personality thing going on that I am very concerned about.

Yes. am very uh concerned about yes and and so the whole thing about the the you know me going on those the you know it's just a bunch of tweets and it's not like i hadn't uh stood up at times before like when he was i remember i watched the when he was debating hillary i remember i was tweeting then but people didn't remember you know what i mean so it's again what makes a good article and so what was interesting was when it got some traction i was like all right you know i might have lost you know half my audience you know because i understand there's half the country that voted for him. And what I'm seeing is that's not the case. So like there is the, the, the people that went after, and that's not to say that there aren't people, there's probably listening here

that people will tweet me or Instagram me and say, you know, I am not, I am no longer going to listen to your standup, but, but they're listening to your podcast. Um, is that, I think it's just, it's, it's those people. They know that we're not the type to just do it, to say it, that it was just like, I can't be silent anymore. I can't be sitting there and seeing a nun at the Republican convention telling us that Joe Biden's unethical when Trump is like this monster who is obviously probably paid for a half dozen abortions. Do you know what I mean? It's like. Yeah. And so the but the what I'm realizing is people, you know, it's not that big of a group of people that care.

And also, like, you know, in the Twitter bubble, you know, it's like, how many people are even on Twitter? It's not even that many, I don't think. Right. But it was weird because you and I talked about getting some of those trolls after you. And, you know, you just block them. But it's still like, I don't peddle in controversy. I don't like. Me neither.

I'm not, you know. And we have friends that kind of do that. That kind of like, yeah, I've got people mad at me. It's like, I don't do that. I kind of would rather tell a joke for, you know, not everyone's going to laugh, but like for most of the room rather than like the last row. Stepping away from my conversation with Jim Gaffigan to send a shout out to our good friends at Freshly. Freshly, here's what they do. They do chef-made, nutrient-packed, delicious meals

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That's Freshly.com slash for bigs for $40 off your first two orders. Give it a shot. And you can read my piece about Freshly in The New Yorker. That's a fun one, too. It's got some laughs. And now, back to the show. So this is a thing we do in the show called the Slow Round.

And so one of the questions is, like, do you remember a period of your life where you were like an inauthentic version of yourself where you look back and you sort of cringe like oh my god that phase oh yeah i mean well yeah no there was a time when i stand up i tried on every type of thing. I tried high energy. I used to smoke on stage. You did? Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to be Dave Attell. And so I, it's so funny. When I started off, I was, you know, kind of like who I am. And then i went through all these different versions i was high

energy i was you know uh and then uh you know i landed where i was that's why whenever someone says oh so and so is doing jim gaffigan i'm like i don't care i mean they're gonna eventually get to what they're doing anyway sure and they're just going through a process. But you'll see, and we've seen this, a young crop of comedians imitating whoever's hot. Yeah, yeah. Who is the strangest neighbor you had growing up? I moved to New York City and I got a rent-controlled apartment. I paid $4,000. I paid a guy.

And when I got into my apartment, I'm not making this up. There was no tub or shower. And I was like, I'm not making that up. But the neighbor was a guy who, I think, I'm not kidding. I think he paid like maybe $13 in rent like $13 he was mentally ill he went he had been to Vietnam so he would knock on my door probably once a week and try to sell me stuff that I didn't need that he found. So like women's shoes, he'd be like, hey, how you doing?

Do you want these shoes? And I'm like, why would I need women's shoes? And he's like, five bucks. But you knew that he was living hand to mouth. So you're like, so occasionally I'd be like you know just to help he was a very sweet guy he was just going around gathering garbage putting in his uh his apartment and then occasionally going to different people in the building and trying to sell him stuff that was how he made it do you have a memory from childhood that is still on a loop and it's not even

a story it's just like a thing that you think about from your childhood sometimes gosh yeah there's it's so weird because you know like i'm jealous that you and joe have that you know he's so kind of involved in your business because there's i don't know but like do you have like these things where you can go to a sibling you're like what really happened um yeah yeah i do have that yeah joe and i have that my sister patty and i had my sister patty my sister gina and we all talk out like wait what was the deal with this neighbor or this friend yes or what happened at that thanksgiving why was it like that yep um i would say the thing that is a constant loop that brings me back to my childhood is cigarette smoke like my my both my parents chain smokers and so when i smell cigarette smoke and then it's weird because like you know now there's no cigarette smoke but like we

performed where there was a lot of cigarette smoke oh yeah so now it's so rare to smell cigarette smoke that it brings up nostalgia of my childhood so like cigarette smoke will remind me of my parents it's so funny what you're saying reminds me of when I used to work at the DC Improv at the door, and I would say smoking or non-smoking. Yeah. It's crazy. Smoke as though it mattered at all. No.

Smoking or non-smoking. It's just insane. It's just. And that's where it's like human beings, we're pretty stupid. Do you know what I mean? We're so stupid and we're so wrong. We're so consistently wrong about everything. Yep.

Yeah. All right. So this is some material I'm working on. So I've been dealing with a lot of weight, my weight fluctuation during the pandemic. I've been up and down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How often do you have pizza now?

One slice. One slice. One slice? I used to do one whole pizza. Now I do one slice. And is that like personal pizza or is that like a real pizza? This is a joke that I have

that I might make it into the show, which is when I see a pizza, I can only view it as a single serving. And more often than not, it was designed for like three or four people. Oh, yeah. You know, I was in Vancouver working on this movie. Brag, brag, brag. No, but I was essentially there by myself. And so indoor dining was done.

They, they, they locked out. So you got everything delivered. And so I would order delivery and then I'd be like, well, you know, I'm going to get a pizza, but you know, I don't know if, I don't know if that's going to be enough or maybe I'll save some of the pizza. So I ended up rationalizing getting two entrees. It's just, but like there were individual, there were the individual pizzas, the high end pizzas that are essentially just, you know, like I love how like, if it's a smaller pizza,

they can charge the same price as a large pizza. They're like, hey, hey fat ass we're doing an individual pizza this is made for you so we're gonna give you the same price as the big one it doesn't make sense right yeah no and that's actually a huge part of my problem is that i i do the shows at night and then i'm on road, and then I'm eating from the mini bar. And one of the jokes I say is like, I'm triple digits on glass jars of peanut M&Ms. Oh, my gosh.

That is the – and the mini bar is just – because there was a time where it was beyond fiscally irresponsible it was just like you've got a problem like you can't afford these 12 m&ms but you're gonna get them anyway and then i i also feel like they give you too many so then you're like yeah do i oh yeah you have to do the whole thing you have to like you're like all right i've never eaten this many chocolate covered walnuts but i'm gonna have to i'm not gonna waste 20 bucks right i've had that i've had that where you get the chocolate covered walnuts or the pretzels and and you try to eat a quarter of, and they're just sitting there on your desk, and you've got to plow through them.

So what is this? What is the theme of your new show? Okay, it's all about middle age. It's hitting middle age and realizing essentially that I'm over the hill and that, you know, when you're on the hill, you can see natural causes. And you're like, oh, they're coming. Right. When you're on the hill, you can see natural causes, and you're like, oh, they're coming. And so I'm trying to swim and go to the Y and eat better. And it's basically, and you can relate to this, having five kids, it's basically for my daughter.

It's so that I can be a good role model and I can be a good dad and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, I remember I said this too. I won't say who, but like a friend of and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, I remember I said this too. I won't say who, but like a friend of mine who's kind of like a very morbid person who's like very negative, and he had a kid. And I'm like, you guys, any advice? I go, well, suicide's off the table now, buddy. Oh, my gosh.

Because it's like if you have a kid, it's so dark. But like if you have a kid, it so dark but like if you have a kid it's off the table buddy no choice now you can't no i know yeah you know it's like forget about like the devastation you would cause friends and family you can't do that to a child i know that's dark but yeah no it's kind of no i mean it's no i mean that that's that's why i think about and that's dark, but I kind of like that stuff. No, I mean, that's what I think about, and that's what the whole show is about, is hitting this point where you go to the doctor,

and in your 20s, you go to the doctor, it's like a sitcom. You're like, do-do-do-do-do-do, bing! And in your 40s, it's like a miniseries. The first episode ends with a cliffhanger. There's a test. You get the results in the second episode ends with a cliffhanger there's like a test yeah you know there's gonna you know you get the results in the second episode they're inconclusive so wait a minute so when you're in your 20s it's one way and then in your 30s because in your 30s did you have your daughter when you're in your 30s it's like because there is something about you could say in your 30s the doctor visit is about

giving life and then in your 40s it's kind of like it's over buddy do you know what i mean it's kind of like it's not over stepping away from my conversation with jim gaffigan to send a shout out to Slice which is my favorite app for pizza and actually food delivery it's funny because Gaffigan and I are talking a lot about pizza we're both pizza obsessives and uh look i mean this company slice is a pizza obsessed company i found them by in their their ads were on the subway and they were like well we give more money to the local pizzeria than the app the other apps that do delivery food. And I thought, all right, well, I want to support that. That seems great.

I highly recommend it. I use it. You can download Slice and order today. Use promo code BRBIGS to get $5 off your first app order. And their reward system is great, too, by the way. Every order over $15 earns you a pizza point, and eight pizza points equals one free pie. You can earn, anytime you order from one of Slice's,

wait for it, 16,000 independent pizza restaurants. Wow. Slice. And now, back to the show. This is another bit I'm working on, which is i went to a nutritionist and uh turns out they know the same stuff as us that's good right it's like like yeah it could be like i thought that they were gonna i went to the nutritionist i was like you know what what? You could describe your hesitancy. And then you're like, but you know what? It's this important.

It's important for my daughter. It's like I want to be a good partner to my wife. I need to learn. And they're like, hey, don't eat shit. Like that was – and then you're like after you paid 300 for this consultation you're like there's no magic wand right i know i know thinking yeah like i think that like i have this belief that all these energetic like i don't know if this is true, but I feel like, you know, you always hear about HGH and, you know, testosterone, low T and stuff like that. I'm a low energy guy anyway, but I'm like, are we going to find out that, like, there's, like, you look at Jimmy Kimmel.

Like, Jimmy Kimmel's got a lot of energy. You know, you look at, like, Conan. He's got a lot of energy. Are we going to find out that they're like, and that goes along with the nutritionist, like, are they taking like bee honey? Or what is, where do we get that? I know that I feel like shit after I eat a pizza,

but like, is there some kind of, you know what I mean? And I say that with- But Jim, you say you're lazy on stage, but you're on a 100 city tour. It's, you say you're lazy on stage, but you're on a 100-city tour. You have five kids. I mean, you're in like 100 movies. It's unbelievable how much you accomplish. So you're getting the energy from somewhere.

Yeah, but I want more energy. But I think I was always tired. I think even as a kid, I was tired. They were like, nap time. I'm like, I'm ready for it. I don I think I was always tired. I think even as a kid, I was tired. Like they were like nap time. I'm like, I'm ready for it. Like, I don't think I was a kid. I was like, I'm not napping. I was like, where can I go to nap?

Do you know what I mean? Like when you were a kid and you brought, you didn't get to bring in a towel. Like we took naps on towels. Did you take a nap on a towel? Yeah. Oh yeah. I remember that. Yeah.

I'm sure now there's like yoga mats or something like you know but uh but we would take naps on a filthy towel and you know those teachers use those towels to clean the floor they're like cleaning the black road like who cares that's gaffigan little chalks only but you but you're seemingly you have an insatiable uh desire to like create to act to perform you do so much of it like is there an end game or is there a thing that you haven't done that you're like i want to do that like when you saw my broadway show yeah were you like oh i should put this i should put my next show on broadway or whatever it is well that's interesting i mean no i was i don't know and it's like i've never discussed this with you but like there comes a point where there is ambition and then there's fulfillment and so like yeah like ambition is

it's still there but it creative fulfillment is the thing and i would guess it's the same way for you too it's like oh yeah there's you know i have an ego. There's still part of me that's like, hey, what about me? You know what I mean? But I also know that doing something, you know, a new comedy special or, you know, like it's I think it really is tied up in acting is that you do this acting project and you enjoy the process. It'd be nice if people saw it, it'd be nice if people, you know, complimented, but it's just kind of in the past. I mean, do I want to be Adam driver? You know? Yeah. That'd be nice. That'd be nice to be Adam driver.

He's also from India. He grew up like 20 minutes from me By the way I think that ship has sailed I really do Although I've been with you in New York City And you get recognized a lot Because I'm goofy looking I look like a clown

I can be seen from far away I wear a mask I wear a mask and a baseball cap Are be like, are you Jim Gaffigan? I'm like, yes, because I'm this white blonde. The thing that we wrap up on is this thing called Working It Out for a Cause. And if you have a nonprofit that you like to support, I know of many that you've supported over the years because we've both done benefits for a lot of places.

But if you choose one today, I'll link them in the show notes and contribute to them and encourage the listeners to do the same. Yeah, you know, I feel like since this started the same time, because this started in the pandemic, right? started the same time because this started in the pandemic right so like yep my wife and kids uh who are men you know they're crazy people they started this thing called the imagine society and so like we did this thing where we would do dinner with the gaffigans but essentially it started where you would help out the you were helping out the wait staff we were buying meals for for

doctors and nurses and healthcare workers and then it shifted to food banks and it also they also help out um homeless pregnant women so it's the imagine society.org. So that's... Okay, ImagineSociety.org. And all the money goes right to helping people. It's not like some infrastructure. I had heard it goes to personal-sized pizzas for you. It does. It does. Thanks for doing this. This was super fun.

And I will... I encourage people in every city in America, because I was looking at your tour dates and I'm just going, you can't even plug a city because you're literally going everywhere. Yeah, it'll be fun. All right, well, go see Jim Gaffigan. Jim, it's always a pleasure. And let's catch up soon.

Yeah, good talking to you. Thanks, buddy. That's going to do it for another episode of Working It Out with Jim Gaffigan. You can follow him at Jim Gaffigan on Instagram. Or Jim Gaffigan on Twitter or TikTok, which, believe it or not, I have now joined. You can join me on TikTok at Mike Birbiglia. I never thought I'd enjoy, by the way,

and I really do. But you can see Jim Gaffigan on tour in basically every city. I mean, if you look on jimgaffigan.com, you just go, oh, okay, he's literally going everywhere or a hundred miles of everywhere. So see Jim, he's just one of the greats. And our producers of Working It Out are myself, along with Peter Salamone and Joseph Berbiglia, consulting producer Seth Barish, sound mix by Kate Belinsky, associate producer Mabel Lewis, special thanks to Mike Insiglieri, Mike Berkowitz, as well as Marissa Hurwitz and Josh Upfall.

Special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers. They have a new album. It's so good. As always, a special thanks to my wife, the poet J. Hope Stein. Our book is called The New One, Painfully True Stories from a Reluctant Dad, with poems by J. Hope Stein. That's at your local bookstore. That's coming out on paperback first week in September.

As always, a special thanks to our daughter, Una, who created a radio fort made of pillows. Thanks most of all to you who have listened. If you're liking the show, go to a place, a social media place, an Apple podcast location, and you just tell your friends and you tell your enemies. We're working it out. See you next time, everybody.