Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 54. Phoebe Robinson: Is She a Writer? Oh Yes, She Is

Episode Date: September 20, 2021

The last time Phoebe Robinson and Mike hung out, they were waiting to be picked up by an Uber on the side of a highway after their tour bus broke down. In this episode, they discuss Phoebe’s third book, "Please Don't Sit on My Bed in Your Outside Clothes,” the eternal question "to prenup or not to prenup," and why Mike was qualified to be a token white guy on Phoebe's "Sooo Many White Guys" podcast. https://www.girlswritenow.org/

Hey, everybody. We are back with a new episode of Working It Out. Thanks. Just a quick thank you to everybody for picking up the paperback of my book, the new one, and writing these nice user reviews around the Internet, as well as all the listeners of Working It Out. We've gotten so much great feedback, and people have written really nice notes to WorkingItOutPod at gmail.com.

We have another amazing guest today. This is a woman who I've been friends with, and I've admired her comedy for many years. She's a New York Times bestselling author. Her first book was called You Can't Touch My Hair. Her second book was called Everything's Trash But It's Okay.

Her third book, which just came out, is called Please Don't Sit On My Bed In Your Outside Clothes. She is a podcaster. She had a show called Two Dope Queens that became an HBO series. She had a podcast called So Many White Guys that I was on as a token white guy. And she has a new HBO stand-up comedy special coming out this fall.

I had a blast talking with her, and I hope you enjoy my conversation with the great Phoebe Robinson. with the great Phoebe Robinson. One of the things I love about the book is you say a confession. You say at the outset, you're like, 2020 is going to be my year. And when I read that, I laughed so hard because I was like, that's what I thought, which is peak confessional comedy when someone admits something to you and you go, oh, my God, that's exact. I didn't even realize I thought it was going to be my year. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, totally. I remember, like, my boyfriend, British Bake Off, he was coming off of touring, and we were just like, oh, we're going to finally be together in Brooklyn. I'm like, we're going to go on vacations. We're going to, like, bop around the city, like, all this stuff. And then 2020 was like, bitch, you are going to be inside. And I was like, fuck. Like, this apartment's nice, but, like, it's like.

Not nice enough for the pandemic. Yeah. It sounds nice, but, like, it's, like. Not nice enough for the pandemic. Yeah. And, like, we got this place in 2018. We were both, like, touring a lot. So we're, like, oh, we don't really need that much space because, like, we're not really going to be here. Yeah. So we were, like, we'll get this cute apartment. And then, like, COVID happened.

And it was, like like, oh my God, we're going to be in here. There's no, there's no balcony. There's no outdoor space. And like, this apartment's beautiful and great, but it's like,

you can hear what the other person is doing at all times. Like literally every shit. I heard every single one of his shits. He heard every single one of my shits. Like it was just like, no, no privacy. That is every single one of my shits. Like, it was just like, no, no privacy.

That is a special level of intimacy. Yeah, you're just like, cool. You're just like slowly turning up the volume on the TV. And then my boyfriend got COVID and he was like really sick for three weeks. And like, I had to cancel stuff because I was exposed to him. And I like, I didn't get it. And he was like really sick for three weeks. And like I had to cancel stuff because I was exposed to him. And I like, I didn't get it. And people are always like, how did you not get it?

And maybe, you know, this makes me not a great person. But one day he was like, oh, I don't know. I feel like kind of warm and like I have a tickle in my throat. And I was like, peace out, bitch. And I'm like. Wow. And I just went. I was like, I'm going to live in the living room because I don't know what's going on.

He's like, no, I think I'm OK. And I'm like, I'm going to see you later. Wow. I was going to ask you to read. We have the same copy of your book. So I was going to ask you to read On page 16 It's sort of like It's sort of a dramatic passage

But I still think it's a very beautiful Piece of writing starting at That paragraph that says starting over Oh okay cute Thanks Mike This is my most Terry Gross I've ever been I've never asked anyone To read a passage on the show, but I was like, I get why Terry asks authors to do that now because otherwise it's me paraphrasing it.

And what's the point of that? Okay. Starting over and being vulnerable in a world that is nothing like what you had constructed for yourself was scary, frustrating, and heartbreaking. what you had constructed for yourself was scary, frustrating, and heartbreaking. Beginning again can feel like yet another tiny death of who you are and what you knew. And the older I get, it seems that adulthood is nothing but those tiny little deaths. Just reminders that all the things and people and even our self-identities that we hold dear are fragile. And perhaps by us spending so much time trying to forget that fragility, we are also forgetting that it's what makes them and us special and worth living for. So beautiful. I mean, am I a writer? I think I'm a writer.

It's funny because it's like, I think the thing that I admire most about the book, and all your writing, this is your third darn book. I remember running into you a few years ago. I was like, what are you enjoying doing the most? And you said, I love writing these books. Yeah. It's so true. When I'm reading this, I'm going like, okay, you're so prolific.

Are you journaling every day? Like, how are you putting out this much writing? Yeah, I don't journal at all. I have tried to journal, I think, a few times in my life. And, like, by the third day, I'm like, this is boring. Like, I lived it. I don't need to record this for history. I lived it.

I don't need to record this for history. And so, like, I remember when I did my first time doing Conan, which was, like, maybe, like, 2017 or whatever, and my parents flew out to L.A. because they were really excited. It was, like, so cute. So cute. They hate everything. They don't want to go anywhere. So I was, like, the fact they got on a plane.

In Cleveland? Yeah, in Cleveland. Did they do CLE to LAX? I know the airport codes. Phoebe, if there's one thing I've learned in this business, it's goddamn airport codes. Yeah, so they left Cleveland. They came to L.A. They, of course, hated everything about L.A.

And I was like, okay, that's what I expected. And I remember, like, after taping, I was like, this was so fun. And I was like, this is the night that I'm going to start journaling again. And as I was writing about, like, being on Conan, I was like, no one cares about this. Who cares that I was on Conan? So I just stopped halfway through the entry. I was like, no one cares about this. Yeah. Who cares that I was on Conan? So I just stopped halfway through the entry. I was like, I don't even need to finish this. Yeah.

Yeah. I write my journal because otherwise I forget. I forget it all. It's my way. I forget a lot of stuff. I forget a lot of stuff. And then the other thing is that if I'm angry or if I'm upset about something, if I write it down, by the end of the entry I go, oh if I'm upset about something if I write it down by the end of

the entry I go oh I'm being a little bit irrational here oh I just find a friend to complain to for like a full hour um so yeah I don't journal like everything is like just book writing stuff and like I don't know I love it I think i love it because all of it's hard like stand-up is so hard especially when you're like trying to like you know a joke is good but you know the writing is just off just a little bit and that's why the audience isn't laughing at something you're like but i know this is fucking funny so that's like its own difficulty but what i like about books and book writing in general is that like, as much as I'm like, you know, upbeat and bouncy and performant stuff, I'm really kind of like a quiet person and a little antisocial. So I really like being able to write.

You call, you describe it in the book, to be clear, as anti-soch. Anti-soch. Yeah, I'm anti-soch. And it just allows me to sort of block everyone out and just kind of, you know, vomit on the page and then sort of like clean it up and figure it out. And so it feels like this super fun puzzle. In every book, there's always a moment where I'm like, fuck this shit. I'm so like, with this book, I was like, what if I don't write it?

Yeah. I was like, am I saucy? what if I don't write it? Yeah. I was like, am I saucy? What if I don't write it? And I won't give back the money. What are they going to do? Then what are they going to do?

Yeah. It's weird. Like I thought one of the things that is really cool that you're doing is you, you not only wrote all these books, you started your own imprint. And so you're, it's like, what does it take? Cause I started,

you know, I produced Jacqueline Novak show and, and I'm producing a couple other stage shows like what's the what's the point at which you start you're a creative and then what's the point at which you just decide I'm gonna champion other creatives and just sort of try to sort of boost them too like what what was the inspiration for that yeah I mean I think always, when I met my lit agent in 2014, I always had in the back of my mind that I wanted to have an imprint. I didn't really know what that meant. I was just like, I love books. I think an imprint would be cool.

Wow. And so, you know, after these couple of books, and like I remember with the first book, Robert, my agent, when he and I were shopping around, literally every imprint except for Plume, who published it, said no. And this was 2015. They were like, nobody wants to read books written by like a funny black comedian. Wow. Like my stuff won't like translate. People won't connect with it. These kind of books don't sell if they're written by a a funny black comedian. Wow. Like my stuff won't like translate. People won't connect with it.

These kind of books don't sell if they're written by a black woman, like all this crazy shit. And I was just sort of like, this is 2015 and people are saying someone won't read a book if it's written by a black person. I was like, that's insane.

So I think that definitely, yeah, it's so crazy. And of course you recorded it on your iPhone and you're releasing the audio this year. You're like, you don't mind if I record this, right? Is that cool? They're like, no one wants to read black humor writers. I'm just going to press record here. And we got that.

That's crazy. I should have done it. Yeah. Really, it's so crazy how common of a story that is. I was talking to Jason Reynolds, who's an incredible black Y- YA writer. And he just said, like, when he started, they were like, you know, they don't want black protagonists in YA novels. Like, they just straight up don't want them.

And then he was like, well, that's what I'm writing. And then, like, eventually, it caught up. The world caught up to him. And it's like, that's what happened with you and your humor imprint, which is the world has caught up to your vision of yourself in 2015. Exactly. And I remember when Roxane Gay broke huge with Bad Feminist and then you hear people go, well, there's Roxane Gay.

So we don't need any other books written by black women because there's Roxane. We got that one. We got the one. Yeah. And I was like, well, there's, like, tons of different experiences and perspectives. So I think, like, with the imprint, like, we have, including my book, 10 books on the slate. And all the other books are by debut authors. It's amazing.

Which is amazing. Like next year in 2023 is when they're all going to come out. And for me, I was just like, I don't ever want like a newbie author to feel the way I felt when it was just like everyone, like no one was giving me a chance, truly, just because I was Black. And I was like, I want to at least be a place where if they come and pitch their book to me or submit it, and we don't end up publishing it, it's not because they're Asian or Indian. It's literally just like, oh, your voice doesn't match with mine, but your writing is incredible. And so really, I feel like I'm very protective about these authors authors and I want people to have a good first experience in publishing because publishing is just like hard to break into in general you know oh yeah but I feel really excited and I hope that my imprint does some good and like that's like you know I'm trying to keep it small and it's curated and I'm not going to be like releasing you know 50 books a year I think it's um what is it three to five a curated. I'm not going to be releasing 50 books a year. I think it's, what is it, three to five a year.

So I'm like, I could do my little bit and then someone else will do their little bit and then together, hopefully, things will sort of change a little bit. Stepping away from my conversation with Phoebe Robinson to send a shout out to our friends at Helix Mattresses. I am thrilled to have the support of Helix Mattresses. In 2021, I've been sleeping on mine for the past year.

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Helix is offering up to $200 off all mattress orders and two free pillows for our listeners at helixsleep.com slash burbigs. And now, back to the show. And of course, you had so many white guys, the podcast, where I was, it was mostly non-white guys, but there was, I think, one per season, a token white guy, which I was. I want to know. I'm honored to be a token white guy. I think I was one season. I think Tom Hanks was one season. Yeah, and then Chris Hayes was one season.

Yeah. Oh, that's a good group. What makes me white enough to be the token white guy? I don't know. It's your everything, maybe. That was pointed. That was pointed. I found that pointed.

And also what? I was so nervous to interview you. Do you remember pointed. I found that pointed. And also, what? I was so nervous to interview you. Do you remember that? I was so nervous. I was so nervous because I was just like, Mike is so funny. And, like, I started doing stand-up. Like, I was, like, watching, like, your stuff. Like, so it was, like, for me, I was like, oh, my God.

Like, hope I don't, like, fuck this up. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, so I was, like, really nervous. Yeah. I loved that interview that that was the beginning of of a friendship that's that's spanned many years now like I a few years ago we did a stand up and vote tour where we did a couple colleges where we encouraged young people to vote uh and we're gonna probably continue doing that in 22 and for the rest of time because you know who votes a lot is old white men.

They vote like crazy. But you know who doesn't vote is young people. And that's a concern. But we did Hamilton College. And then do you remember the bus broke down on the way home? Oh, it did. And we were just like, okay. It was you and me on the side of a highway literally because it was you me and gary gallman melissa v and senor but they had to go to other

gigs and we were the only people on the bus home and we were on the new jersey turnpike no joke and this is helpful for the listeners if you're ever in this situation, we called an Uber to a highway. We just put in the coordinates. We put in the coordinates. The Uber driver was so confused. He kept circling. He's like, where are you? We're like, no, no, we're on the highway.

We're literally on the highway. Oh, my God. I forgot that until just right now. I'm like, that's wild that we were like, just come pick us up on the highway. Oh, my God. I forgot that until just right now. And I'm like, that's wild that we were like, just come pick us up on the highway. Like, what? And by the way, that tour bus. Because usually when I tour, we get a tour bus from like Nashville or like one of these hubs where there's like country music and a ton of touring acts. That one was like a one-off date.

So we got a tour bus from Staten Island, and I'm not kidding. It was like a party bus with like a stripper pole and stuff. Yes, there was a stripper pole. It was not the right bus. And, of course, we all stripped. We all stripped just out of respect for the bus. We all stripped for one another. I mean, you've got to take your clothes off.

You have to take it. That was the only way you were getting on that bus. Including the bus driver. Yeah. We each took turns. That was so fun. It was great. That was so fun.

Oh, this is the thing I was going to ask you. Because you emanate so much positivity in your book and your stand-up uh it's like where's it come from and then and then when do you hit a wall and then how do you come back from hitting the wall oh i hit so many walls it's like i feel like i'm a very, as I learned, I started going to therapy last year because I was like not able to handle the stress of like COVID and like trying to keep my business together. And then reach a breaking point. Like, I would just be like crying all the time. Like stuff wasn't working out. And, you know, telling my boyfriend about like, oh, this job is going away.

This thing is getting postponed. Like, where's money coming in? Blah, blah, blah. And then like I reached my breaking point because I was like, it was like early one morning I was working on something and I was so stressed out that I went over to the kitchen garbage can, vomited. Oh my gosh. And then went straight back to work. Oh my gosh, no.

Yeah. I was like, I don't want to wake, I don't want to wake, my boyfriend's name is Luke. I was like, I don't want to wake Luke up, so I'm going to vomit super quietly. Oh, my gosh. So I just threw up. And then I was like, at my computer being like, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. And I was like, that's insane. That's so insane.

That didn't even take a second. I was so stressed out. And so I think, like, as much as I'm, like, bubbly, I think I also have like like my therapist told me she was like, you are emotion minded. And it doesn't mean that I don't think things through or that I'm not analytical, but it's just like when something happens, like the emotion that I feel is the first thing that happens before I can start to sort of like think things through. Like if I'm mad, I'm just like, fuck this is the first thing that's in my head. And then my brain catches up with me to be like, okay, maybe don't fuck this. Sort of like you could do blah, blah, blah.

Maybe don't fuck this. Yeah. It's still allowing for the possibility of fuck this, but it's not saying 100% fuck this. the possibility of fuck this, but it's not saying 100% fuck this. So I think when I hit walls, we're like, and you know,

especially in this business, like so many times, like the best part of anything is when you make that announcement about something where it's like, I sold a script or my pilot's getting greenlit. That's like the best part of everything. And then as like projects fall apart, as they tend to do, then you're just like, oh, fuck.

I fucking announced this thing. People are going to be asking, where is it? And I think it's like, no one cares. Everyone's announcing stuff all the time. No one cares about your announcements. But it feels like, oh, I'm such an idiot. I shouldn't have said anything. I'm letting people down and so i definitely have those moments where i truly beat myself up but i always try to

be like pull myself out of it because i'm just like you know what no matter how crappy situation is no matter what role i don't get or what thing gets canceled it's like at the end of the day i just have to bet on myself so i always remembered that like me betting on myself 13 years ago when i started doing comedy has paid off and so it's going to continue to pay off but some days it's like it's tough because it's like when you're in a business it's like you also have to like compartmentalize you can't be like i'm sad because your employees are like what like we're looking at you to be in charge so i can't be like, I'm sad, because your employees are like, what? We're looking at you to be in charge, so I can't be like, this sucks, you know? No, I think you're right.

I think you're right. I mean, it's like Joe and I, my brother Joe and I were sort of marveling about this with your career today, where you go like, you're writing books, you have your own imprint, you're coming out with a stand-up special. It's like, you're doing books, you have your own imprint, you're coming out with a stand-up special. It's like, you're doing all these things. It's like, when you wake up in the morning, what's Phoebe part one?

What's the first thing you think you gotta work on? And how do you decide? How do you decide what to work on first thing? So, when I wake up in the morning, I've been trying to do this thing where I, like,

ease into the day with like some smooth jazz. Okay. That's the answer I was looking for. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Stepping away from my conversation with Phoebe Robinson to send a shout out to Bomba Socks. So Bomba Socks, I got interested in because I heard an ad on a podcast, not unlike this one, for Bomba Socks because for every pair of socks they sell you, they give a free pair to someone in need of socks. I talked to the guys about it who started the company.

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Get 20% off your first order. That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com slash Burbiggs for 20% off. And now, back to the show. Alright, this is this thing we do on the show called The Slow Round. Do you have a memory from childhood? I know you grew up in Ohio. Do you have a memory where, it's not even a story, it's not a thing that you'd make even into

a book, but it's sometimes like on a loop in your head and you just think about yeah um gosh i remember this was middle school so i was maybe like 12 and i wouldn't say that my parents are conservative but they're just very much like follow the like they just like follow the rules like okay just that's all you have to do for the love of god just follow the fucking rules and i you know i wanted to like i wanted a crop top right and so my mom was like no and i was like but i really want one and i was like i'll layer it like i'll wear it like over like a long shirt so you don't really see anything she's like no and then she finally relented and i think we went to like dillard's or whatever the fuck and like got a

got me a crop top and she was like okay but you can't wear it at school and i was like okay sure and so i think like a couple weeks later i was like trying to run out the door and i was like an idiot because i like put the crop top on and like okay I'm gonna go to school it's like why did I just like cover up and so she was like you can't wear that to school go back up and change and I was like fine and then I go back up and I'm like I'm gonna show her I'm just gonna put it in my book bag and then change at school right and so I think there was like a big assembly that afternoon and I think it it was, like, some sort of, like, everyone gets to, like, all the classes, like, get to, like, perform or do, like, whatever kind of, like, dumb stuff. And so she waited until 15 minutes before that started.

And then, like, someone from the principal's office was, like, came to, like, like my classroom knocked on the door and was like phoebe your mom is here and i was like what wow your mom is here to take you home in front of everyone i was like no and i had like my little crop top on i was like fuck like she totally she's on to you she's good good petty. She's very smart. Yeah, yeah, it's great. Do you remember, like, a particularly strange neighbor or family friend growing up? So my parents are very sort of, like, they're wonderful people, so loving, so giving. But they, like, truly did not come from like the best sort of like families.

So like I want to say when I was born, so my dad was 24 and my mom was 28. They like like shortly after I was born, they like kind of cut everyone, their family out. Oh, interesting. So it's like in their family out of our lives. Oh, interesting. So it's, like, which I think is for the best. It was just, like, not good environments for them to be around. And they just were, like, very toxic people, a lot of the folks in their family. So it's, like, I don't have, like, I remember when I was a kid and I used to watch, like, Family Feud.

And you had, like, five people on. And I'd be sad because I'd be, like, it's just my parents and my brother. I'm, couldn't do family feud because i'm like i don't know a fifth robinson or whatever yeah um so i don't really have like any weird like family friend or member you had actual family feud yeah Yeah. You had Family Feud for real. That should be the, you should host that show. It's like two participants on either side. And then you have to explain why the other people couldn't be there today. I'm going to pee myself. That's so funny.

Another throw-around question is, this is one that I got from Anne Lamott's book, Bird by Bird, which is, describe a school lunch you remember from childhood. Oh, a school lunch. Okay. My dad used to make us lunch because I would be like, I want Lunchables. My dad was like, I'm not buying you Lunchables. Yeah.

Now I'm like, that was the right call. But he would just make us healthy. It was never anything that was too out like out there was just like here's a solid healthy lunch and then the weekends was like our junk food friday but like during the week we had to like eat so it'd be like you know carrots like i don't know like a turkey sandwich or like you know like applesauce or something like it was never like anything spectacular it was just like this will give you enough energy to last throughout the day. And then when I

went to college, I was like, I was like, waffle fries every day. I was like, going ham. Yes. I think that's part of the reason the sort of famous freshman 15 happens, and I

gained weight my freshman year. Because, like, you just go to college, you go, like, we can eat anything? Really? Anything? We can eat pizza for every meal at the dining hall? Every meal? Like, I swear to God, in college,

I think I had weeks where it was, like, seven days a week pizza. Yeah, of course. And why not? it's like chicken tenders like i remember my friend karen and i we would go to associated supermarket which is like truly like of course kind of garbage it's terrible and we would each get so intimans sold this like cinnamon roll that was like four in a box with all the icing and everything.

We each buy one of those boxes, sit in front of our TVs and just watch Sex and the City. And like, that would be our meal for the night. And I'm like, if I did that now, I would have diarrhea in the morning. We ate the whole box. Stepping away from my conversation with

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I don't have many jokes for this, but it's just sort of something I'm trying to develop in my show right now, which is I think what's most defining about my personality is that I talk a lot. I talk when I have something to say. I talk when I don't have something to say. Some people think I talk too much. Those people are some of my closest friends to me. I love that. But I don't think you talk too much. In real life, just socially?

Yeah. I think you're so delightful to talk to. Like, it's not too much. Oh, that's so nice. I like that bit. So where do you want it to go next? I think what I'm going to try to figure out is a lot of times I put these things on stage just to see, like, where the laugh is laugh is or like maybe it becomes something else or maybe it becomes like,

like I try to think of it in terms of like, this is just a jumping off point. And then I'm going to go on stage and sort of see, because I don't know about you, when you're working on bits, do you find you go like, oh shit, that's a laugh. I didn't realize that was a laugh when you wrote it. Yeah. Yeah. Usually I'll just do like a very short that's a laugh. I didn't realize that was a laugh when you wrote it. Yeah. Yeah, usually I'll just do, like, a very short version of a joke. And if that gets a laugh, then, like, I'll go back and build onto it. And so. Yes. I'm thinking for your bit.

I'm just thinking because my niece is the same age as your daughter, six, right? Yep. No, my niece. How old is my niece? Oh, my niece is seven. Oops. six right yep no my how old is my niece oh my niece is seven oops um but she's very much like when she was younger she was super into me and now she's very much not into me yeah and she's in she's into my boyfriend she's always like where's luke wow yeah and so i'm like oh okay i see how

things are but she's like she'll facetime me and be like, hi, where's Luke? And I'll be like, you called my phone. That's very funny. And so I wonder if, like, does your daughter ever have a moment where she's just like, dad, like, I don't want to hear it. Or is she very much, like, obsessed with you? Well, that's really interesting because what it makes me think of is well yeah certainly like there are there are moments where like she she had a sleepover recently and like my wife and i drove to pick her up and then we go we see her and she's like mom

and like hug like you know i, you know, I miss you. And then like the mom at the thing was like, and there's your dad. Like it had to be like, she had to be like prompted on it. And there's your dad too. You know? And then literally she didn't even hug me. She goes like, let me grab my bag.

Like somehow like me, somehow like me being there, me being there made her think of her bag. But then like I shouldn't talk trash because we also like snuggle and we have great times and we laugh and laugh and laugh. And also, by the way, this is a great prompt for me, what're pointing out which is my daughter expresses herself through talking she talks and talks and talks she and I have a lot in common you know like she'll talk and talk and talk and Jen my wife will look at me and go sound familiar?

so maybe there's a tie in there yeah that's oh my god let me get my bag let me get my bag let me get my bag that is so funny oh and I want to be like hey by the way you know who's driving the car dad's driving the car

you know who's in traffic for 45 minutes that was dad you go get your bag you go get your bag and then we'll talk about this later or whatever alright I got a few more jokes. I got, I feel like Microsoft Word needs to stop assuming I'm creating a list. I'm like, number one, it's like, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight.

It's like, I'm like, A, it's like, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, F, I'm like, hey, it's like, it's like an overzealous intern. I feel like saying, hey, Microsoft Word, why don't you take a walk, grab me a coffee, and I'll just write this document on my own. What I like about you is that you don't do anything. The listing is so true and i'm like why are you so prepared oh for just lists like they microsoft word crashes all the time autosave doesn't work yeah so many things about microsoft word do not work but they are fucking prepared for a list they are like i'm here yeah yeah totally it's like yeah it's almost it's like just do the thing that you promised to do right yeah just save my documents that's it just save it save the words that's. Yeah, it's like the friend who's, like, always ready to turn a night into, like, an event.

And you're like, I don't need this. I just want to chill. And it's like, but what if we got in a helicopter? That's good. And you're like, I don't want a what if this, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. One word, helicopter. You're like, what?

What does that have to do with what we're doing? We're going to a restaurant for a quiet evening. I'm just saying helicopter. And then I got this one, which is, this is something that will probably be in a book or maybe in like a satire piece because it's like, I don't know about you, you don't talk about politics that much on stage. Right, yeah, yeah. But you, you know, I would say you're politically active like in your life as a citizen.

And I'm similar. I don't really talk about it on stage, but every now and then I'll jot something down. The other day I wrote down, Americans are bad roommates. They're like, I have a gun. They're like, I have a gun. I'm like, are you going to lock it up? They're like, no. I'm like, I have a toddler. They're like, this is America. This is about freedom.

Ever heard of it? I'm like, right, but we share the same space. They're like, socialist. I'm like, well, there are elements of socialism. We share toilet paper. We split the utilities. They're like, shut up. I'm like, actually, I think you should shut up. Because not that it matters, but I pay more rent than you do.

I love that. They leave dirty dishes in the sink. They freaking bring people back to the apartment at 3 a.m. for loud, mediocre sex. Like, there's a whole lot you could do with that. I love that. We are bad roommates. We're bad roommates.

Oh, my God. We're such terrible, particularly now. We're like worst roommates ever. It's horrible. It's horrible. That's really good. That's really good. You should keep building that because that's great.

Yeah, I think maybe I'll try to write it as sort of a satire piece and maybe submit it to The New Yorker or something because it does feel like I'm on to something. But the moment that you bring America into anything, it's just like people going, but it's not like America because of blah, blah, blah. And you're like, all right, everyone relax. I was trying to make people laugh.

I know, and it's just like, you know, I'm grateful to be here. I'm grateful to be an American, but I'm like, I'm like, guys, we have to look at history, and America has made some bad calls. Yeah, yeah. America's been a little reckless on the history of France. Yeah. Yeah.

It's almost like with the roommate thing, it's like, can we talk about how you didn't pay rent last year? It's like, no, we're not going to talk about the past. We're going to have to talk about the past a little bit. I don't want to talk about it. You know what I mean? Like, something in that space. I love that.

This is kind of a thing, and this is a little bit about politics, but I just was like, so did you see, I texted my friend this. You know that meme, that guy who holds up the cardboard thing and it has different signs on it? And so Joe Biden did a meme with him and i was just like what i don't want my president doing memes yeah yeah i get that like you need to fix the country so i'm like why like whenever like i get so mad Did he really pose with the guy? Yes. The real guy? Yes. Yes. I get so mad when the president goes to the theater. I'm like...

Yes. I got mad when Cuomo wrote the book. When Cuomo was writing the book, this is before... I think it was before we knew about all the sexual harassment stuff. I was like, dude should not be writing a book. This is before, I think it was before we knew about all the sexual harassment stuff. I was like, dude should not be writing a book. I'm sorry.

Yes. This is the time for Phoebe Robinson to be finishing her book. Not the governor. What the hell's going on here? Yeah, or when they go to concerts. And I'm just like, going to a concert takes so much time. Like, you have to find parking. You have to find snacks. I'm like, you wasted seven hours that you could be fixing America because you want to see Coldplay?

Like, I don't want my politicians having fun. Yeah, politicians having fun is like when you text your friend and they don't text you back and then they tweet about Cheez-Its. This is something I wrote the other day, which I feel like you'd relate to. I feel like the longer you live in New York, the more your standards change. When you move to New York, you're like, I hope I don't see a rat. And then a few years later, you're like, I hope a rat doesn't eat my face. It's literally

like your standards become zero. That's so true. I knew my standards had changed because like, you know, you like order takeout and then you find like there's like a hair in your food. Oh, yeah. And you're like, oh, my whole meal is ruined. Andout and then you find like there's like a hair in your food. Oh, yeah. And you're like, oh, my whole meal is ruined. And then like during COVID, like I ordered like I don't forget what I ordered where I was eating.

But I saw that there was like a hair in my food and I was like, that's fine. I just picked it out. I just kept eating. I was like, grow up. Everyone has to grow up. If there's hair in your food, it's fine. And I was like, that's insane. Yeah.

Yeah. If a hair falls in your food and no one else sees it fall in your food, is it in your food? Is it even in your food? I think about that all the time. Sometimes I'll see in our apartment, we've had all these crazy, honestly, we've had mold and cockroaches and all this stuff. And you just go like, you see the cockroach. And you just go like, he's got friends.

You know he's got a crew. And you just have to block it out. You got to compartmentalize. Yeah. Is there anything else you're working on that's sort of like in your notebook right now? Oh, I'm trying. So my boyfriend and I have, we started talking about getting married. Oh, wow.

Which is is exciting. We've been together four years. I'm like, there's no rush. As long as I'm engaged by 40, I'll be fine. I get a year. And so I want to do a prenup for sure. And he's like, yeah, that totally makes sense. He was like, you make more than me.

You should do a prenup. And sometimes I tell people, that totally makes sense. He was like, you make more than me, you should do a prenup. And, you know, sometimes I tell people, like, it's like not romantic. Like, you're expecting your relationship to fall apart. And so my boyfriend's white and British. And so I want to be like, I don't know if you've noticed, but white men are historically petty. That's very funny.

Like I was like, I have to protect myself. And I'm trying to do this whole bit about the Boston Tea Party. And so I did a whole bunch of research about like how they dumped 92,000 pounds of tea worth $1.7 million into like the ocean. did this in like november and news didn't get back to london until january i was like do you know how petty you have to be to like do something like that where they pay off is like three months from now like that's like that's really funny. I think maybe the structural way to do it is like to withhold the petty line until after the tea party example.

So it was like, you know, I'm doing a prenup and my friend was like, don't you think it's unromantic? And you're like, you're like, in 17 blah blah blah you know, these white people dumped this many gallons of tea into the harbor or whatever. Anyway, I'm doing a prenup.

White people are petty. Yeah. That's great. i like that because then you can also just be like i'm just i'm just speaking his language yeah i'm just getting along here i mean it was a whole they dressed up as indigenous people i'm like they had a costume budget there was a lot of planning that went into this because they were mad at England. What was my boyfriend going to do to me? That's so funny.

I love that premise. Also, there's a thing of like, it's like black people in the history of America have suffered enough. If I get married and then I lose money in the divorce, that's one, that is one bridge too far.

I lose money to a white British guy? I fucked up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. Oh, this was good. I was like, I don't. I love that. Oh, this was good. I was like, I don't think I have anything. It's just like stuff in my notes app where I just sort of like write stuff down and then like go back to like doing whatever.

But this is OK, cool. It's great. I'm in love. I'm not insane. Yeah. You've been married how long phoebe you can't put me on the spot on my own podcast this is very inappropriate it's very i ask the questions right here you've been married for a while okay since since since 0, so 13 years. Oh, wow. That's amazing.

Yeah, it's crazy. And also, like, no one who we knew thought we were going to be married more than, like, two months. Like, we literally called. We went to City Hall. We went to City Hall. It's true. We went to City Hall, and we called Jen's parents and her father, her stepfather

and he goes, oh, that's so funny. And then he hung up. He thought it was a joke. He literally hung up the phone. He goes, that's so funny. He goes, are your cats getting married too? And we go, yeah, they are. And then he hung up.

Because we looked up whether cats could marry each other when we got married. We had these two cats, Ivan and Miss Lucy, and we thought it would be funny if they got married to each other. That is so funny that no one thought you guys were going to go the distance. That's hilarious. Oh, yeah, it's a huge thing. And by the way, if any cats are listening, get a prenup because those cats can be very, and I'm going to say it, catty. And petty, like white people.

That joke is great. I think that joke is great. Thank you. I think it's like, I think that that's going to be a killer. I think it's going to be a closer. I think we could be looking at a closer bit right there. Okay. All right.

I'm going to spend time working on it because, yeah, it just made me laugh. And I'm like, I love him, but I don't trust anyone all the way, you know? Well, okay, here's an idea, too, is, like, you do the thing. You go, like, you remember all those white people in Boston? They threw all the millions of gallons of tea in the water to prove to the British, blah, blah, blah. And, you know, white people are petty. And then you can go, so I'm giving this speech at our wedding. Yes!

We close on a thing called Working It Out for a Cause, and basically it's any nonprofit that you like what they're doing, and I donate to them, and then I encourage the listeners to donate through the link that we put in the notes. Okay, so I have a great organization that I work with from time to time. They're called Girls Write Now and it's spelled W-R-I-T-E. And it's really cool because, you know, a lot of them like want to get into publishing or like want to be professional

writers. And I like they just have like nurturing girls to write and follow their creative passion. So that's one of my favorite organizations. I'm thrilled to contribute to them. I'm going to link to them in the show notes. Phoebe, this is such a blast. I feel like we could talk for 10 hours, and I would love it. So congrats on the book and the special and handling all of your multitasking. Thank you so much.

All right. I'll see you soon. That's going to do it for another episode of Working It Out with Phoebe Robinson. Phoebe Robinson is so funny. you've got to get her book, Please Don't Sit on My Bed in Your Outside Clothes. Look out for her special on HBO Max this fall. Our producers of Working It Out are myself, along with Peter Salamone and Joseph Berbiglia, consulting producer Seth Barish, sound mix by Kate Balinski,

sound recording by Cynthia Daniels. Associate producer, Mabel Lewis. Special thanks to Mike Insiglieri, Mike Berkowitz, as well as Marissa Hurwitz and Josh Epfall. Special thanks to Jack Angenoff and Bleachers for their music. They have a great new album. As always, a special thanks to my wife, the poet J. Hope Stein. Our book, which is a mix of comedy and poetry, painfully true stories from a reluctantuctant Dad with Poems by

J. Hope Stein is at your local bookstore. Perfect gift if you're doing some early holiday shopping. As always, a special thanks to my daughter, Una, who created a radio fort made of pillows. Thanks most

of all to you who are listening and joining us on this windy comedy journey. Tell your friends. Keep telling your enemies, too. We're working it out. See you next time, everybody.