Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 59. Alex Edelman: A Jewish Person Walks Into a Meeting of White Supremacists

Episode Date: November 15, 2021

In December Mike presents Alex’s Edelman’s solo show, "Just for Us" off-Broadway at the Cherry Lane Theatre. It's an award-winning comedy in which Alex (who is Jewish) tells the story of being accidentally invited to a gathering of white nationalists & then what happened when he…showed up. Mike & Alex crack open that story as well as working out jokes about rollerblading into museums, why Socrates had a hard time at parties, & how texting the tooth fairy can backfire. https://www.childrensdefense.org/

I'm producing your show, which I love. It's a show called Just For Us. And I'm always perplexed about with a movie or a show is how do to land in me sleepwalking through a window. I mean, that's sort of baked into the title and it's sort of whatever. And just for us is like, do you mind if I try and explain it back to you? Please, I would be like really actually thrilled by that. So what I tell people when I pitch it to them is like, you got to see this guy, Alex Edelman. He wrote this show about this real life experience where he's a Jewish person and he was accidentally invited online to sort of a white supremacist social gathering. And being the comedian he is and sort of curious of what that life experience would be,

he went. And that's all I'm going to tell you. It's hilarious. It's got a thousand jokes. It's heartwarming. It's sad. It's all of the emotions. And I won't tell you any more. I mean, that's a really good description. It also raises some questions that people are like, well, he was invited, and he was... Yes. People are like, dear Alex Edelman. Hey, everybody, it's Mike Birbiglia.

We're back with a new episode of Working It Out. That was the voice of Alex Edelman, comedian, writer, performer, solo show artist. We're talking about his new show, which is called Just For Us. I am presenting it myself at the Cherry Lane Theater in New York City, off-Broadway in the month of December. It's the exact same place where I produced Jacqueline Novak's show about 18 months ago, Get On Your Knees, which is also fantastic.

And you can listen to my episode of the podcast with her. But Alex is great. We have a great chat today. You should definitely get tickets to see his show. Also, I should mention, I'm going to be in Denver, Colorado. a few tickets left,

Berkeley, California. I'm at Berkeley Repertory Theater with the Old Man in the Pool show for three weeks in January. That theater is incredible. So get tickets for that. Also, Seattle, and it might not be announced yet, but Portland is coming soon. Charlotte's coming soon. There's a handful of exciting ones. I don't even know what I'm allowed to say. Go to burbix.com, sign up for the mailing list. That's when you'll find out when you're supposed to find out as opposed to me just riffing on here with half-truths about my own tour.

But Alex Edelman is great. This show, Just For Us, is phenomenal. It was nominated for Best Show in Melbourne, Australia at the festival. Best Show in Edinburgh it was nominated for. It won the Herald Angel Award. He's just a fascinating comedian, very one-of-a-kind, and we have a great conversation, and we begin with something else we have in common today. Enjoy my chat with Alex Adelin. So your dad's a doctor. My dad's a doctor.

Are you trying to heal people with your comedy? No. I'm trying to heal one guy and it's not going well. It's going so badly. Like you wouldn't believe. This guy sucks. He's miserable. He's in his kitchen in front of a color coded bookshelf,

but doing his best, you know, that is a riot. Um, my, I think, I think I went into people, do people,

would people ever ask you, are your parents okay with what you do? Oh yeah, sure. Do you have that? Oh yeah. But also my dad's like a really great cardiologist with like a real deal yeah he's like with a long wikipedia page and people yeah but it's awful because sometimes people come up to me after shows me like your father is the greatest man you know it's No, he's so good at being a cardiologist, he has a Comedy Central half hour.

My dad has a TED Talk. My dad's got like... Does he? He's got like a real TED Talk, not like a TEDx thing. He's got like a real... Peppered with jokes? I wrote one joke for him,

and it did okay, but like it was about how they used to say, if you understand syphilis, you understand all of internal medicine. And he said, if you understand Dick Cheney, you understand all of cardiology because Dick Cheney said so much. And then he showed some – That's good. He showed some graph that got an applause break.

It was like – Well, do you know that I was – I have a cardiology joke I'm working on. Maybe I'll ask your dad. Please. I've been reading this book called How We Die that my parents had. And it's an old book by a physician. And he tells a story about – this is the 1950s.

A guy was having a heart attack and all the staff was spoken for. And so the guy, the patient was going to die. So the doctor took a scalpel, slipped the guy's, the patient's chest, took his heart in his hand, massaged his heart to try to revive it. Didn't work. But I just thought that that was a really graphic story. And my punchline for it was Like, talk about the perfect moment to say, it's not what it looks like. Guy walks in. Guy walks in. Guy walks in. Dead guy.

You got a guy holding a heart. It's not what it looks like. I feel like I want to put that in my show somewhere, but I don't know where exactly. That's so funny. I really like that. Sometimes jokes are really just pitched directly to me. Well, there's another one in that book that was interesting I was reading last night. I don't have a punchline for it.

But it's, you know, like when you go running, a lot of times people go running after not having run in a few years, they go jogging and they get like a Charlie horse in their leg. And, and that Charlie horse is technically sort of a heart attack in your calf. So it's basically being deprived of oxygen and blood. And so it's, it's, it's your body's way of telling you like, stop. But, but, but it's, uh,, I don't know what the joke is, but I was like, wow, that's a fact. I never, I mean, not only have I not thought about it that way, I did not have any idea that those two things were related.

The body's, it's so funny. The body's got like five ways of telling you to stop. And one is just, it's basically the heart and the brain are the most temperamental they're just like your calves in your Achilles is very chill but your

heart and your brain are just like when they're the divas they're like if we don't work no one works oh that's nice I love that that's a joke I might that. Yeah. That's a joke. I might have to ask permission to use that. You can use that.

Although I've got a joke about like, my dad gave me a watch and, or actually we were cleaning out my parents' house because they were downsizing, which is a whole long thing that is so traumatic than it may be in Edinburgh show. Same, by the way. I've been helping my parents downsize as well, and it's a whole thing.

Oh, and they just want to throw it. They'll be like, can we throw this away? I'm like, my birth certificate? You know, like, just like... I feel like I want to hold on to that. I was trying to heighten it, but I'm like, oh, this is the misunderstanding. This is the great misunderstanding in the comments sometimes on Apple Podcasts.

People go, Mike tries to one-up his guests. It's like, no, no, no. It's the premise of the podcast is working out jokes. It's the premise. If you don't know the premise, then don't comment on the Apple Podcasts. Ugh, Malcolm Gladwell, he's such a goddamn nerd, you know? He's always...

Thinks he's so smart with all his information. That's so funny. But I was trying to one-up your personificate line, but I actually couldn't. I was like, oh, that's too perfect. Because you need it. I haven't said that on stage. Maybe I would have been like... What about, um, can we throw this away?

My first front tooth? My first front tooth. My first front tooth. It's not taking up that much space. It's really funny. It's the size of a raisin. And the color of a raisin. And the color of a raisin.

I'm only referencing that, of course, because my daughter's front two teeth came out this week. It's like the most adorable thing that could ever happen in one's life ever. And I've become a complete antithesis of everything I made fun of. I've become the exact person I've made fun of for 90 minutes in my show, The New One. So I dated someone who was a single mother and had a 10-year-old daughter. And I convinced her that I had actually gone to college with the Tooth Fairy. Like it was an acquaintance. Like she was an acquaintance.

Like it was someone I knew. And the daughter was never impressed by anything I did. But for some reason, she was like, you know the Tooth Fairy? That's the one. I was like, you mean Stephanie? I was like, by anything I did, but for some reason she was like, you know the Tooth Fairy? That's the one, yep. I was like, you mean Stephanie? I was like, yeah, I know Stephanie. I was like, yeah, of course I know Stephanie.

She's the best. She's from Cincinnati. Stephanie had a backstory. And I made a fake text message conversation between me and the tooth fairy. Oh, my gosh. Where I was texting. Come on. And I deleted. If you text yourself on the iPhone, it will make a reply. And so I made it seem like a conversation.

I deleted the things, made it seem like a conversation. So Violet loses a tooth, and she comes marching in. And she goes, tell Stephanie that I want $100 for my tooth. Oh my gosh. And I was like, no. I was like, you're getting $10. And she's like, why can't I have $100? And I sat down with a pad and a pen and I was like,

Violet, here's how many children there are. Here's how many teeth there are in the world. Here's the market value of a tooth. Like, it's a supply and demand problem. And the mother is looking at me like, what the fuck are you doing? Like, you're trying to rationalize. And I'm like, you can't get $100 a tooth

because this is what it would cost a tooth fairy to buy. The economy can't support it. Yeah, the economy can't. The basic supply and demand problem. Yeah. Too many teeth, too many teeth, not enough currency. Yeah. It would bring down the global economy.

And Violet just muttered something and walked away. And then I walked back into the kitchen about an hour later, and she's holding my phone. And I'm like, Violet, what are you doing? And she had been texting the tooth fairy. And of course, when you text on the iPhone your own number, it just texts you back what you texted. So I'm like, the jig is up.

And she looks at me, and she screams, Stephanie's mocking me! Oh my gosh. She thought that she was texting the tooth fairy like, I want $100 for my tooth. The tooth fairy was like, I want $100 for my tooth. I want $100 for my tooth. Yeah. Did you, have you done that on stage? No, I've never talked about it.

That's a great one. I mean, you got, is it in your notebook? Yeah. It's in my notebook somewhere. But maybe, you know, maybe one tag would be like, and sorry to one-up you. Go ahead. I'll leave a comment. I'll leave a comment.

She was like, well, do you know Santa Claus? And you're like, Nick? Of course. He was in my class. Of course, my advisor. He was my advisor. Professor Nicholas? Of course, my advisor is my advisor. Professor Nicholas? Of course.

He's a saintly, saintly man, you know? A little bit of a discrimination problem. He's a saintly man. So corny. So this is called The Slow Round, and you listen to the show. It's just sort of memories from childhood, advice, things that stuck with you. Do you remember a smell from childhood that's particularly good or bad? Yes.

I remember the smell of—this is so unforgivably Bostonian, but Fenway Park has a unique smell to me that sometimes I dream about. I literally will smell. It's a combination of the grass there, the Kentucky bluegrass, and the smoke from the hot dogs and the peanuts and other ballparks don't have the same smell. I love Fenway Park. I mean, it's a gorgeous, gorgeous field. Between Fenway and Wrigley, those two parks are just, if anyone is listening to this, haven't visited those parks, even if you don't like baseball, it's pretty spectacular. It's a good night out.

It's a good date. It's a good night out. It's a good date. It's a good father because baseball was designed for night for early 20th century parents who didn't want to look at their kid when they spoke to them. Oh, God. Oh, is that the official reason? Yeah, sure. They invented baseball? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, keep your eye on the ball. So, how's school? Keep your eye on the ball. Keep your eye on the ball.

That's why hiking, talking on a hike is so good. If you're a West Coaster or a— Got to keep your eyes on your feet. Yeah, got to keep your eyes on your feet and your hands on your hips. You know, it's just— Sorry, sorry. That's so funny. Yeah, because it's almost unnerving when you look into someone's eyes.

It's like, Jesus Christ, they're looking into my eyes? It takes a lot of pressure off the... I do have a joke that I've done on stage about baseball. I've never said that about baseball, about how it was designed for parents who didn't want to look at their kids. That's a riot. Write that down. I'm going to, but it's, baseball's a great sport if you like an hour of excitement stretched out over the course of two

and a half years. That's very funny. I mean, it always gets a laugh, but it always feels a little bit cheap to me, even though I do love doing the joke because- think you could have you could pair it with the dad thing I mean the thing is is like the thing about avoiding eye contact to me tells more of a wider story that's more personal yeah I mean it really um I just though remember going to my first game in August of 1995 and I'm six years old and I'm holding my grandma's hand and I'm smelling baseball. And it was such a, and by the way, I got to work at the Red Sox when they broke the curse. I was 15 years old working for the team when they broke the curse in 2004. And I stayed there until 2007. And then I spent two years at the Dodgers from 2008 to early 2010. And I was convinced that I would work in baseball

my whole life and that I wouldn't be a comic. What was your job? I worked in fan services and PR. I wrote press releases and speeches. The last, the thing I'm most proud of writing, actually, I don't think I've ever mentioned this ever in a public way. But the thing I'm most proud of writing is, or helping out with,

is after the Boston Marathon bombing in 2013, I went back to the Red Sox for about two weeks, and I helped write the pregame speech for the first Red Sox game back after the Marathon bombing. But of all the, like, punch-up and weird ghostwriting I've ever done, that's the one that's meant the most to me, and's got not a joke in it so you know sorry it's so earnest like maybe no no i like that i like the earnestness um do you have a memory on a loop from childhood where it's not a story but it's just something that always sticks with you? I have lots. I have loads. But first of all, I rollerbladed everywhere as a kid. Me too. Same. I rollerbladed everywhere. That's weird and dorky and awkward. I rollerbladed into the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston. Oh, gosh. And three security guards came to get me,

and they didn't touch me. They just escorted me out of the museum with their hands not touching me. They rolled you out. And it would have been so much worse if they... It's so much worse than if they didn't touch me, because I was, like, under my own power, but I couldn't go too fast.

Yeah. And, like, I just thought I could do it for some reason. I was like, my own power, but I couldn't go too fast. Yeah. And like, I just thought I could do it for some reason. I was like, yeah, you know, I'll just come in on roller and like the stairs of everybody else. And like, and then I tried to come back into the museum in my socks, holding my roller blades. And they were like, please go home. Like you cannot.

So I just remember the young woman at the desk being like, I'm sorry. Like, just come back another day. Like, you know. Like, clearly you live locally. Like, you don't. Just like, please, please don't do this. Like, you know. Do you remember an inauthentic version of yourself?

Yeah, I saw you. I remember you asked Neil Brennan that question. And I think about, it's the number one question I think about in my day-to-day life. Sure, I get that. Like, it's the number one question. Like, or a version of it.

And all of my favorite work is about people trying to become themselves. Right. So much of solo art, solo comedy is just figuring out who you are. And to figure out who you are, it's helpful to figure out who you aren't. But yeah, an inauthentic version of myself, always. I always, I live one now. Like an authentic version of me that didn't care what anyone else thought would be a very confusing and oddly dressed human being.

I think he'd wear a yarmulke, but not have to answer any questions about it. any questions about it. I am a, I think every day I try to become a little bit more of one. But, you know, in 2016, I remember being like, I really am an authentic version of who I am. Sure, of course. And then in 2018, I looked back on that journal entry and I was like, that guy was lying. And why? But why? Because first of all, what's that thing about the nature of being observed changes the, an object being observed changes the nature of the object.

Yeah. And so based on who's observing you and what time you are in becoming inauthentic, you know, you become an inauthentic version of, of yourself. But back then, um, I think I was trying to, um, I think I was trying to hide how anxious, uh, I was with, I think I would say anything to anyone. And I've got a lot of anecdotes from that time, uh, where I would just say to someone like, you're not very nice, are you? Oh, gosh. Oh, my gosh. Who did you say that to? So there was a, I was at a social gathering once, and there was a child of a famous person there, and there was a fire caused the death of, in some on-set accident, had caused someone's death via an unnecessary explosion.

Oh, wow. Oh, just to clarify for the listeners, we're actually not talking about a recent film tragedy. This is from a long time ago. Yes. His kid was behaving badly and trying to scare some of the girls around the fire by throwing alcohol into this fire and making an explosion. And I said, you think you know from your dad that this kind of thing is a bad idea or something like that. Oh, my God. And the thing is, I'm not really that guy, but I wanted to be that guy. You know, like.

Right. The sort of cavalier, whipping off lines, cool. Yeah, but the guy wheeled on me, and he said, and this guy's a famous scumbag himself now. So he said, hey, how many people do you know at this party? Because I know everybody at this party. Oh, wow. And you know one person here. And I was like, that's true.

Good story. Good story. But the thing is, he was right. And like a real cool guy would have been like, yeah, I don't care. But like, I cared a lot and i wilted and um the the real the real but the thing is you go in an authentic version of you the authentic version of me is a bit of like a shrinking violet and like a bit of a guy who

i'm like you know by the way there sometimes people see the show, the Nazi show, Just For Us, my show. And afterwards they go, boy, there's a lot of apologizing in your show. And I'm like, it's true. And for a while, you know, I had a session with Seth, Mike's- Seth Barish, my director. Seth Barish. And there was one moment in the show where I had put in what I wish I'd done instead of what I really did. Yeah. Or I put in something that they did to justify my lack of, you know, strong reaction.

my lack of strong reaction. And Seth sussed it out immediately. And sometimes it takes me a couple of shows to implement a change because it takes me a minute to work up the courage. But I changed it the next night. I was like, and audiences laughed because the funny thing is audiences can sense an authentic you in every single word. And by the way, there's still like, for craft reasons, like for climax reasons, I wish something more climactic happens in that one moment in the show.

But like, you know, like the real me is a guy who apologizes a lot. So, so it was funny the other night I listened to, and it's something I recommend to the listeners. I always recommend like things about writing Mary Carr's book, the Anne Lamott book that Gary Goldman recommended, Bird by Bird. The new one that I'm going to recommend is Zadie Smith's talk for the new yorker that's an audio it's a one-hour audio book called how to fail better and oh it's great first of all she taught you she was your professor yeah writing professor at nyu and i know that but um this is a great talk because and it speaks to what we're talking about right now

she basically talks about how like every author essentially finishes their novel or the book, whatever they're writing, and they have this moment of, oh my gosh, I'm a fraud. This isn't telling the real story. This isn't telling the truth, right? And then they hand it in because they have to, and then they get feedback from someone where they go, people go, it's great. It's authentic. It's true. And then they internalize that. And then they, it dispels all of their trepidations, but actually the

trepidations were right. Yes. Yes. I was like, that sent shivers down my spine. I was like, A, she's right. B, that's me. C, that's every right right now. But you know what? People, I have a weird analog to that, which is where I used to have a joke with my brother AJ, where I go, you know, AJ and I are twins. Or we look like twins.

Because my brother AJ is a year and a half younger than me, or almost two years younger than me. But we looked exactly alike growing up. And after a while, a comic I respect was like, just say you're fucking twins. Like, it's so much just... So I did a joke about having this twin brother. And I did on Conan.

And every couple of days, I would get an email from twins. No way. Going, so nice to see, and I'd have to write. Oh, that's devastating. This is devastating. It's devastating. My inner organs are cringing in my body right now. It's awful.

It's truly bad, and I wish I hadn't done it. My gallbladder is tingling right now. Oh, it's truly bad. But the funny thing is, I don't know what to do about it. My gallbladder is tingling right now. Oh, it's truly bad. But the funny thing is, I don't know what to do about it, but I always correct the record when anyone, I've never written, thank you so much. I'm always like, I have to tell you, I'm not a twin. Oh my gosh. But for a while I was like, Alex Edelman in air quotes has a twin, but Alex Edelman, like it's such an insane. I feel like this is the right time to tell the listeners.

I didn't jump through a second story window sleepwalking. You did it, but it wasn't a walla walla. It was in like, it was in Spokane. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it is the biggest, it's the biggest lie I've ever told on a stage, and I hate it. But also, eh.

Like, it's a stand-up thing, and I used to say that you start with the truth and then you edit. So this is the part of the show where we work on jokes. I have a whole bunch of jokes. I'm very excited to talk to you about jokes because whenever we talk on the phone, you're similarly obsessed with jokes. Obsessed. In the way that I am. I love your jokes.

I love writing jokes. I love watching other people's jokes. I love retelling other people's jokes. I love writing jokes. I love watching other people's jokes. I love retelling other people's jokes. Me too. So anyway, I'm just going to get to it. I woke up the other day with amnesia, not the permanent kind, the three and a half minute version where I think, where am I, New York? What year is it? 2021. What's my deal? I'm a dad and a husband and maybe something else, but I forget. And I had to check what year it was on my Apple Watch, which didn't exist in any of the years I thought it might be.

So that was a hint. I looked down, I glanced at my Apple Watch and thought, I'm in the future. It's honestly, it's not even a joke it's a sometimes this is where jokes for me start it's a feeling it's like an experience it's sort of a slow round answer sure but can't you see where the jokes go right i don't know where do you think the joke goes there i think the hitting hard what's my deal what's my deal yes i think what's my deal is such an informal thing like if you came to and the doctor was like what's your name and you're like my

and you're like and he's like what year is it you're like 2021 like who's the president and you're like depends who you ask and you're like yeah he, he's fine. But like, who's the president? And you're like, Joe Biden. And he's like, what's your deal, man? I think what's your deal is a key question. Actually, I'll ask you about yourself and I'll ask you about me what you think my deal is. Because I wrote this other joke on the heels of that other joke, which is I asked my friend Nikki Glaser on this show how she would describe me. And she said, she said, you're kind of sad. And I told my other friend Chris about this. And he goes, she's right. You're very sad. And I said, she didn't say very. And so the people around me either think I'm sad or very sad, but they only tell me by accident. And when people ask my mom if I'm funny, she says,

no, he's very serious. So I'm serious, sad, and very sad, depending on who you talk to. And I asked my wife, Jen, I go, Chloe, what would be the first adjective you would use to describe me? And she said, urgent and earnest. I would use the adjective thoughtful. Oh, that's so nice. But hold on. Thoughtful people are never happy. That's right. Of course not. Yeah. Because there's too many sad things to think about.

Yeah. If you're thoughtful and happy, you're stupid. Oh, no. Thoughtful doesn't mean you're smart. The letters are coming. The letters are coming based on that line. If you're thoughtful and happy, what are you thinking about? The Apple podcast reviews are going to come at you for that.

I mean, I don't. By the way, there is a lot of stuff to be, like I'm one of those people that when it comes down to it, I'm an optimist, like I'm overjoyed to be alive, given the amount of ice cream that's here. That's so funny. But sometimes words aren't always, I think picking apart what a word actually is or what it actually represents is always like a really sick way to go with a joke,

like always really fun and really useful. Yeah, but maybe, oh, sorry, go ahead. No, I just like, I was going to say like sad, happy, or nice don't really mean anything anymore because we've, because of nice inflation has. Nice inflation, I think is a good way of putting it. Yeah. Nice inflation, quote unquote, great inflation. Oh Nice inflation, I think, is a good way of putting it. Yeah. Nice inflation, quote-unquote great inflation.

Oh, yeah, great. It's thrown around way too much. Exactly. People go like, he's the nicest guy in the world. That now means if someone's like, he's a nice guy, I'm like, oh, he's your worst enemy. Right. It's like, yeah. Remember when beautiful used to mean something?

Oh, yeah. They're gorgeous. They're hot. Oh, gorgeous. They're gorgeous. They're hot. They're, you know. Gorgeous. They're so gorgeous. They're stunning, you know. Right.

It's like what? I mean, honestly, at this point with words, we've done great inflation on adjectives so much that literally you have to say exquisite at this point. Oh, yes. To be a compliment. A thousand percent exquisite. Perfect or exquisite. Perfect or exquisite. Perfect. Perfect even.

Perfect even, you go. I don't know. I don't know if that's a compliment. Oh, they're perfect? Really? They're not perfect. But you're right. That's a really...

He was just being nice when he said perfect. He's just being a nice guy. That nice guy said she was perfect, but yeah. But I actually think she was perfect, but yeah. But I actually think she's a little bit sad. I think there's a lot of stuff there. Building on what you're saying, I'm sorry about what – maybe that's the joke.

She said, my friend Nikki, she goes, you're sad. And I think another way of describing that is I'm right. Of course I'm sad. Because I can look around and see how sad things are. Yes. I'm not sad. I'm perceptive. There's a difference. It is a hard balancing act though, you know, because Jen's a poet and I'm a comedian and it's like two people in a house whose whole job, your job is to have these antenna that are very sensitive, that are discerning what's going on around you in the subtlest of ways. And so then when something really serious happens, it's like, feels like an earthquake. Oh, yeah, of course. That's really,

I think that's really smart. But sometimes I think the scale warps things in the sense where sometimes small things seem huge and sometimes huge things seem small. do you have a bit that you're working on right now? Oh, I've got a couple. What do you got? There's someone, Oh, I've got a couple. What do you got? I keep hearing the same cultural anecdote about Keanu Reeves showing up at a wedding as an example of how great a guy Keanu Reeves is. I'm like, not if you're another guy at the singles table. You're sitting there at a wedding. Your name ted you've worn a tie you're looking for love

and you see the nameplate next to you you're like oh kiana that's interesting the only other time i've heard that name oh no and then he comes sit next to you and you're like hi i'm ted yeah i know yeah. I love that. And he's like, and Kiana's like, Oh, your name's Ted. I play,

you know, Oh, that's funny. And he's like, uh, what do you do? And Ted's like, I'm a computer programmer.

And he's like, I played a computer programmer, but, the character was also God. So, you know, like, it's funny,

but like, it's, uh, I don't know just how much, like with, with, you know, sort of scenes scenes i'm never sure how how how much you should or would want to paint you know what i mean like sure something like it so i i don't know if it's got if it's got i feel like it's i i feel like it uh to to earn its keep in like a show yours that's personal, you'd have to find what's the thing that hurts you about it.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. What's the thing that feels personal to you? I think it could be better if it was about you in some way. You have fixed a lot of my jokes when we talk where I'll pitch you a joke like this, and you'll be like, yeah, but how does it relate to you? And it's been hard for me because, like I earlier you know my comedy is pretty voyeuristic and so sometimes my jokes aren't necessarily observations but they're about about about me through the way that

i see other people and like i had a joke i was trying to work out for something about um a carrie underwood song called j Take the Wheel. Yes. And I found the punch, and now I'm using it as my closer when I do stand-up sets because you're like, how does it relate back to you? I describe all of the Jesus Take the Wheel song, and then I go, and then on the front end of the joke, even before I talk about it, I talk about my personal experience right now getting more religious.

But the joke is, I got more religious over the course of the pandemic. I watch a lot of television. And then one day, I was like, I've got some big questions about why we're all here. And then I blacked out. And then three weeks later, I was keeping kosher again. And I said, it's so frustrating, though, keeping kosher again. And I said, it's so frustrating though, because Christians have a guy. Yeah.

And Jews, you have to guess. You're just like, oh, is he kind? Is he vengeful? Is he merciful? Are we his chosen people? The track record does not suggest that we are the chosen people. Also like, is Whoopi Goldberg Jewish? What's going on there?

And also like, is there a, is it like, is it a man man because we're created in his image or is it like the force from star wars you like gotta tap into something that's bigger than than you and like what do you do and then christians are just like he's a brunette and you're like what he's a brunette his name's jesus and uh he loves fish and wine and hates tables and the uh night before he died he had dinner with 12 friends or 11 friends and judas and um oh also he's ripped and then there's like a little side and then there's a little side track about jesus um being ripped where i kind of um everyone's I've heard a lot of versions of people being like, Jesus is ripped, but I, sorry, I'm sidebarring now, but I go, people go, and he's ripped. And I'm like, he's ripped? And I'm like, that's not in the book. You guys put that in later. And I Googled,

I Googled, there's a group of Christians in Spain who prefer a more heavyset Jesus. If you've never seen Botero paintings, please Google them for a Jesus who's really serving you some Zach Galifianakis vibes. Oh, that's so funny. And then there's a line I'm debating whether or not it's lazy because it kills, but I don't know. I said, just paintings with heavyset Jesuses where the nails are doing so much work. Wow. I love that joke. But see where the, but that's the prelude I go.

I became obsessed with a song called Jesus Take, I wrote that because you said, you need to relate this next part back to you. I said, Oh, wonderful. I said, I wrote, I said,

I'm obsessed with a song called Jesus Take the Wheel. And it's by this woman, Carrie Underwood, America's Poet Laureate. And it's by this woman, Carrie Underwood, America's Poet Laureate. And it's about a woman who's driving on a Friday on her way to Cincinnati on a snowy Christmas Eve and she's driving home to see her mother

and her father with a baby in the backseat. And she's got 50 miles to go and she's running low on faith and gasoline and sometimes I'll sing it, depending on how I feel. And I do all the lyrics. She's got her baby in the back seat. And then the chorus is, she lifts her hands off the wheel.

She starts to slide on black ice and she lifts her hands off the wheel. And she's like, Jesus, take the wheel, take it from my hands. And now I'm definitely singing on stage. And Jesus takes the wheel and he drives her and that baby to safety. And that is not how it works for the Jews.

That's funny. I'm like, if you're Jewish and you start sliding on black ice, you die on impact. And then you get to heaven and God is like, what were you thinking? And you're like, I put my faith in you. And he's like, when has that ever worked for you people? Oh my gosh, I love that joke. But it's because you were like, relate that back to you personally. I find that the jokes that I write to justify the jokes that I want to do become the better jokes.

You know, like, I love to. We all need joke-loving friends and writerly friends. Like, you and Hannah Einbinder came to my show at city winery recently yes i didn't even tell you this you gave me a line i had like five minutes on jesus i swear to god and and you and hannah go uh you could cut that joke at the 90 second mark because everything after that is lateral to how much you're peaking at 90 seconds. And I made that change and it's a hundred times better. And there's three and a half minutes on the cutting room floor and it's, it's good and it's gone. Can I talk for a quick second off that

about, so about like the, the, like I was saying earlier that solo shows are different than stand-up comedy hours, and that's a perfect example of, for me, I think the number one bit of craft advice that I got from, I work with a dramaturge in the UK named Adam Brace, and he helps me with my jokes. And he says that because people like you and I, Mike, love jokes so much, sometimes you will just write jokes. And sometimes the momentum that you, he calls them barnacles, I call them clag. Sometimes the momentum that you lose as you do jokes on a premise you've already introduced are not worth the momentum that you, like the laughs aren't worth the momentum that you lose. And because we're writers and we love jokes and we love to write more, sometimes it's really, really hard because you're like, well, it's getting laughs. But sometimes it loses momentum. And so like, you know, those are like really tough decisions to make, especially when you're like doing like all of that jesus stuff was getting laughs it was getting really good laughs

from the audience but it was it was the momentum that you because like i know mike berbiglia there's going to be another there's going to be another new idea that's very fun around the corner and i think with our attention spans now, I think you introduced an idea and the audience is like, got it, love this, next idea, please. Got it, love this, next idea, please. Like, I think that's the way all of stand-up comedy is working right now.

Sorry, that's a long thing, but that's, you know. Yeah, we could go into this all day, but I think we should stay on bits. So this is something I'm completely – this is in the cardiology universe. My dad has had three heart attacks in his life. He's still alive, still kicking, doing well. When the third one happened, he was at the hospital working because he's a doctor.

He walked in the ER and he said, I'm having a heart attack, which is like a fireman walking into work and saying, I'm on fire. Yes. And the new line is, I think it was Socrates who wrote, know thy heart attack. He didn't say that, but he did say the only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing. And that's exactly how much I know is nothing, which is sad and possibly very sad. But it's not urgent because there's no urgency in knowing more things if you're ultimately still going to know nothing. Or at least that's what Socrates would say. And I'll take his word for it because he's only got that one name like Prince or Madonna. That takes a lot of confidence

to walk into a party and say, hi, I'm Socrates and I know nothing. I'm sorry, who? Socrates, I'm on the list. How do you spell that? S as in Socrates and the rest of the word Socrates? Wait, are you Socrates? Yeah, that's what I've been telling you. Oh my God, I'm so sorry, Socrates. I used to not read your books when I was in college, but I totally had them. And Socrates is like, thanks. And he's like, oh, I'm so sorry, Socrates. Go right in. Can I get you something? And then Socrates says, worthless people live only to eat and drink. People of worth eat and drink only to live. And then he walks into the party and the bouncer says, that guy is so serious and sad.

Wow. I mean, here's the thing. First of all, it's great. Like, it's full of... I'm like, do I even want to pitch jokes to the back and forth between socrates and the bouncer well talk to me about talk to me about the experience of that whole chunk because i basically pitched you a chunk of stuff i like so i'd like so here's here's what i'd cut um the the sort of middle bit the no nothing-nothing bit for a while. Yeah, I'd cut some of that.

But besides it, I followed it really well. And it seems, obviously, it follows on from the thoughtful and sad thing from Nikki, right? Yeah, yeah. Does it, like, the Socrates, so I feel like there's that part of the bit. And then there's the Socrates bit, which could exist independent from you. How does it tie back to your dad having a heart attack, though? Yeah, I think that's a good point. That's a good point.

How do we return to the heart attack? And I think that that's Socrates walks into the party and the bouncer says, that guy's so serious and sad. And then Socrates had a heart attack. It was a very sad story. I thought where it was going to go was, if you know nothing, what's the quote? If you...

Oh, knowing. I think he says, knowing God. It starts to start about 25. No, the heart attack is the joke. And then the only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing, which is a quote I love, by the way. The only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing. But is a quote I love, by the way. The only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing. But if you know that you're having a heart attack, being able to walk into a hospital

ward immediately helps. It is practical. Yeah, it is practical. That's very funny. That's where I thought I was going. I love that. I love that. So we end on a segment called Working It Out for a Cause.

Is there an organization that you appreciate that I will contribute to myself and encourage people to contribute to themselves? And we'll link it in the show notes. There are so many worthy causes, and I thought about this a lot. One of the causes that I love is the Children's Defense Fund, which is founded by Marian Wright Edelman, no relation to me, sadly, but she is a pioneer in the field of standing up for children who both legally and materialistically, they have been supporting families and children in poverty since the 70s and through COVID.

And they've got a long and storied history and they spend very little of their money on overhead. They actually put a lot of their... It's good bang for your buck. So I would highly encourage folks to donate to the Children's Defense Fund and I love them. Well, I'm going to contribute to them and I'm going to encourage others to as well. So thanks for coming on today. If people want to find out more about your show that I am producing

in New York at the Cherry Lane Theater, which is really one of the best places to see a show. I produced a show there that Jacqueline Novak did, Get On Your Knees. I did my show, the new one there. It's like one of, honestly, it's like 160 seats, not a bad seat in the house, like a spectacular theater experience. And Alex's show is tremendous.

I couldn't recommend it more highly. If you want to know more about that, follow him on Instagram at Alex Edelman or me at Burbiggs or sign up for my mailing list because that's sort of how I get the word out about all this stuff on burbiggs.com. But Alex, thanks for being my friend. Thanks for being my associate. And thanks for coming on the show today. Thanks for having me. I love this podcast. It has made me a better writer listening to it and, and a better joke teller and a better comic and it's raised my standards.

And so I like, thanks so much for having me and, and in every respect of the word. And we can only hope that as people leave the theater, they'll go, that was beautiful, Alex. I know which line Birbiglia tagged. That was beautiful. I'm like, wait, do you mean, is it beautiful? Are you being nice? What's the...

Working it out, because it's not done. Working it out, because there's no... That's going to do it for another episode of Working It Out with Alex Edelman. Once again, go to alexedelmancomedy.com, get tickets for his off-Broadway show, Just For Us. It runs through most of December. You can follow him at alexedelman in all the places that one follows. Follow him at alexedelman in all the stalking places

where you stalk people. Our producers of Working It Out are myself, along with Peter Salamone and Joseph Birbiglia. Consulting producer, Seth Barish. Sound mix by Kate Balinski.

Sound recordist, Parker Lyons. Associate producer, Mabel Lewis. Thanks to my consigliere, Mike Berkowitz, as well as Marissa Hurwitz and Josh Upfall. Special thanks, as always, to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers

for their music. They're on tour right now. They're rocking it really hard. I saw them in Texas. As always, a very special thanks to my wife, the poet and introvert, Jay Hope Stein. Our book, the new one, is in paperback now at your local bookstore.

I just started doing reels on Instagram. I just posted a reel of me and J-Hope Stein walking through a field, talking about being an introvert and an extrovert. So you can join me at atberbiggs on Instagram. As always, a special thanks to my daughter, Una, who helped create a radio fort. And thanks most of all to you who have listened. Tell your friends. Tell your enemies about the darn podcast.

Nothing enemies love hearing about more than your favorite podcast. Write a review on Apple Podcasts. Throw some stars our way. In the meantime, we're going to be here. We're going to be working it out. See you next time, everybody.