Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 63. Sarah Millican: Put The Email Address In Last

Episode Date: January 10, 2022

What started as a poem by Sarah Millican about a bad divorce sprouted into one of the most popular comedy careers in England in the last 20 years. Mike and Sarah discuss how hitting rock bottom can lead you to the top and what happened when Sarah’s childhood bully sent her a long letter as an adult. Plus, new bits about Sarah’s husband who may or may not be a robot, Mike’s dad’s excessive use of speakerphone, and that time Sarah got too comfortable with a sharp object. Please consider donating to: https://www.samaritans.org/

whatever the audience did to me wasn't as bad as what was currently happening to me. So if they didn't laugh, fine. If they threw things, fine. If they shouted out, fine. Because I was just like crumbled and broken at the time. We are back with a new episode of Working It Out. That is the voice of Sarah Millican, very, very funny, funny comedian from the UK who I've been watching for years and years and years.

A couple quick announcements. I'm in Berkeley, California right now. You can come see me at the Berkeley Repertory Theater, which is an amazing, amazing theater. I'm performing my new show, The Old Man in the Pool. Then I bring that show to Portland, Oregon, Seattle, Washington, Minneapolis, Charlotte, Durham, Asheville, Indianapolis, Dallas, Chicago. I'll be at the Steppenwolf Theater for four weeks, which is amazing. That's going to be a great one. Los Angeles, the Netflix is a joke festival.

I'll be at the theater at the Ace Hotel. And then London. Hopefully Sarah will come to that. And then Paris and then Iceland. Today on the show, we have Sarah Millican. She is a UK comedian who I think is just so darn funny. I think I first saw her as a panelist on 8 Out of

10 Cats, which is Jimmy Carr's show that he hosts. He was a guest in the fall, who I think is a riot. She has five comedy specials of her own. Chatterbox Live, Thoroughly Modern Millican Live, Homebird Live, Outsider Live, and her most recent 2018 Control Enthusiast Live. live, thoroughly modern Milliken live, homebird live, outsider live,

and her most recent 2018 control enthusiast live. She's so original. She's so unique. She's so naturally funny and just a joy to talk to. Enjoy my conversation with the great Sarah Milliken. You have such a fascinating journey into comedy in that, like, when I was reading about you, I was like, oh, wow. You got, you in your 20s didn't do comedy, as I understand you were you had a day job you you know you were civil servant you were married and you got divorced and then you were like and now I'm

gonna do comedy and then it and then it sort of blew up is that is that accurate yeah it's fairly accurate I think it wouldn't have even occurred to me in my 20s and certainly I wouldn't have ever had the bottle I don't really know if I knew that comedy clubs existed. I knew that stand-up comedians were on the television and that they went on tour and you could see them in a theater. But I don't think I knew that. You know, some people's like origin story is like they sat and watched so many comedians and thought I could do better than that. And I never had that because I didn't see comedy in comedy clubs. But then I got divorced. I think I really needed to hit the bottom and wow did I hit the bottom and because it was well it

it was a surprise as well it sounds like you burst out of a cake um it wasn't a surprise like that it was an awful surprise I thought I did you ever do you ever have a time when you thought you were happy and then you were told that you weren't? It's really weird. Yeah, sure, sure, yeah. By the way, if he did burst out of a cake and tell you we're getting divorced, that would have been something. Well, I mean, if it was a real cake, at least that would have been step one of just eat the cake. That'll help. Yeah, yeah. Consolation prize number one is eat the cake, yeah. Exactly. You can't have him, but you can have this delicious six-foot cake

that will be worth five foot. Anyway, so I decided I would have days when I felt like I could do nothing and then days when I felt like I could do anything. Like if somebody said, you've got to climb a mountain, I'd be like, sure, get me the right shoes. And on one of those days, I signed up to a workshop for people who'd written but never performed. And it was mostly performance poets or poets who wanted to become performance poets. So I wrote a monologue because I used to write plays and short films and things before that.

And I wrote a monologue all about my divorce. And then I performed it that night. And part of it made people really sad. And part of it really made people laugh. And I left it that night and part of it made people really sad and part of it really made people laugh and I left it for six months six months I didn't do anything about it and then I rang the woman who'd ran the workshop and I said I think I want to try doing stand-up comedy and she said I know and she'd been waiting for the call she knew I was going to be a stand-up before I did. It was like a fairy tale. Yeah. And that's how it started. But I really think we all have a moment when it's a bit like, whatever the audience did to me wasn't as bad as what was currently happening to me.

So if they didn't laugh, fine. If they threw things, fine. If they shouted out, fine. Because I was just like crumbled and broken at the time. Yeah, it's so funny. I had almost an identical epiphany. I had already been doing stand-up, but I had a breakup when I was like maybe 23 years old. And it was that thing where it's like you feel like everything's gone you're a shell of a person you have nothing and then okay I guess I'll put everything into this

hobby I have stand-up comedy and then cut you know cut to the plot of sleepwalk with me where I'm driving around the country playing like every hole in the wall club I think it's just it's an odd thing that how people respond to a breakup some people are drinkers and they'll go out and get smashed and some people are promiscuous and or want to be and and I've just never been either of those things so I just got on a stage and talked to some strangers about my life and it went well thankfully because I think but I think I was ready for it it's almost like the results weren't important it was the action that was because I felt like I was finally taking control of things it's interesting that you bring up the the workshop that you took because

I I don't know about in Britain but but in America, there's always this ongoing debate about, quote, unquote, comedy classes. And whether comedy classes, a lot of comedians will be like, they're a scam and it's a pyramid scheme and all this stuff. And then there's some people who go, well, I mean, Jon Stewart took a comedy class. I mean, Jon Stewart took a comedy class. You know, like there's a lot of great comics who needed like a, you know, there's a lot of great improvisers at UCB, you know, who Rob Corddry and, you know, all these people who came out of improv classes. And I think sometimes you need a push. Like you need just something. A push.

That's an excuse and also kind of a safe space because your first gig is probably going to be standing up in front of your fellow you know the people in your fellow newbies in your class in front of rather than in front of an audience so maybe it's just about a facility to have that one first gig that might not be horrendous, you know, to get you into the second gig, which might be horrendous because most people's second gig is awful. What's funny, and one of the things that I'm so impressed by with your resume is like, you're, you're so prolific. And I wonder like where, like, I want to say you have five specials that are out, like one hour comedy specials, and you're touring with like your next hour, which will be probably your next special. Yeah. And, you know, when a lot of my listeners are creatives and I feel like the question that they'd want to ask or that they ask me sometimes online is like, where do you even begin when the end result is six hours of comedy so i'm always

writing i never stop in terms i don't mean like i'm sitting for days at a time i mean it's always kind of percolating in my brain i'm always scribbling little notes here and there and anything that i once i'm happy with my show so i'm on tour now until february 2023 with this show but now that i'm happy with it it, I find the twiddly bits, the sort of the tags and all of that as I'm moving on. But once I'm happy with it, which is now,

anything new that I write is banked for the next one. And there's such control. It takes a lot of control because most people will just get excited about a new bit and they'll slot it in, which means you're pushing out

a perfectly good bit that you're just bored of so grow up stop being bored of it perform it better and bank your other stuff harsh you're really scolding scolding people but it means that when by the time i get to the end of a tour i usually have an hour that works for the next one and that comes from the terror of a blank notebook a blank screen I've I've got a rule where I won't put a tour on sale until I've half written the show because I don't think those people buying tickets should be preparing more than I am like they shouldn't be like okay well let's have a weekend away your mama look after the kids and we'll get a hotel for They shouldn't be doing that. Well, I'm like, I don't know what it's about.

Like, I feel like I should have a good idea of what it is before they're booking their taxis. No, I get that. It's funny because after I did the new one on Broadway, there was like the Broadway tour, which was like a whole bunch of cities, but I had already been touring it for like years and years and years. And so it was, but it was properly with the toys and the set design and all this stuff. And, and it is a weird thing because it does take, it does take a certain bit of discipline, like you're describing, to like stick to the script, but also have it feel alive yeah and i think that's they sort of the writing of the jokes and the honing of the jokes is one set of skills but being able to say it night after night after

night and for people somebody sent me a message the other day after a show saying i know i know you're not just talking to us like we're your friend but that's what it feels like but that must be really frustrating for you because it's you know when people say that something's effortless and I think I hate using the word effortless because everything that looks effortless is effortful and it's really diminishing the work that's gone into something but it was a nice compliment because you're saying it seems like you're chatting to us but I know you can't be because you're doing it every night and I think that's maybe 30% of the job is telling it like it's the first time. I guess that strikes out my question.

How do you make it look effortless? Just do a strike through here. I'm just working on a word document. I noticed on your schedule, it's like you're going to Iceland. I'm working on going to Iceland. You're going to Scandinavia. I know you teased Australia and New Zealand possibly coming down the road. But like, was that always part of your tour or is that additional since the pandemic? I tend to add a few new places that are a bit of a punt because obviously you don't know if you're going to sell tickets there until you put the tickets on sale horrifically.

No, literally have no idea. Because sometimes people say, why don't know if you're going to sell tickets there until you put the tickets on sale horrifically. No, literally you have no idea. Because sometimes people say, why don't you come to Norway? And then it seems like a lot of people are asking about Norway. And it could just be one really adamant person on Facebook. Absolutely. I think about that all the time. Because you have to decide whether or not to go and spend all this time in this place. And you could literally, your nightmare as a comedian

is you show up and it's three people. And a lot of the other people haven't even bought a ticket yet. Not only is the gig bad, because there's not enough sort of laughter to be honest, but you're just embarrassed the whole time. You're like, I'm so sorry I did this to you. Because it looks like you've gone, I can sell tickets in Iceland. And then you go to Iceland and you're, oh, I can't sell tickets in Iceland.

Because with somewhere like Australia, while it's huge, it's also not because there's just sort of some major cities. And if you play the major cities where America is so vast and has so, because people say, when are you coming to Minnesota? And I think, I mean, probably never, like maybe we'll get to do New York and Chicago and Washington, LA, but I'm not sure we'll get to Ohio. I'm so sorry. So I don't know. I don't know. And when I do Montreal, some people come in from America. So I think, well, maybe those people will travel to places in America if I get to do some places. So that's still hanging in the balance. But Australia, New Zealand and Canada and Europe should hopefully all be fine. And it's so exciting because what I do as well is the first time I did Montreal and I did a full hour of sort of a work

in progress, I picked somebody in the front and I said, I want you to put your hand up if you don't understand something. And it's a great device because they put their hand up and then sometimes it's just them that hasn't understood it. So we had a man once put his hand up and then put his hand back down again when he realized everybody laughed and he was like, oh, it's just me. Oh, that's really interesting. Yeah. But if I find out what that is, because obviously there are language me. Oh, that's really interesting. Yeah. But if I find out what that is, because obviously there are language differences. I like that tactic a lot.

Yeah, well, it's a way of me being able to, I never liked it when people say like, like if I was to do a show in America and say I was in Walmart, I would never say that unless it had happened while I was in America. But if it happened here, I would say I was in Asda,

which is a bit like your Walmart. And then people connect it and they go, oh, so I know the kind of shop you're talking about carry on but it's when like I saw uh Chris Rock in Manchester and he was like I was in Moss Side and I was like were you were you I don't think you were in a tiny part of Manchester I think you probably got the plane and then you went to the hotel to the venue to the hotel to the plane yeah yeah yeah he might have done I don't know but I feel like if I can give the translation if I can say uh I did this like if I was to call something a smear test then I know that you guys call it a pap smear so I would probably call it a pap smear but I wouldn't

pretend I'd been somewhere in America if I hadn't, you know? No, and I always vet my references whenever I go to Australia or London or whatever it is. With my new show, I talk extensively about the YMCA pool. And so I've asked a lot of comics in the UK whether or not the YMCA even exists. And I mean, are you familiar with it? I would know what you mean. Okay. So I think I would understand that it would be

sort of a local slightly shit pool. I think that's their tagline, I think. I think that's their tagline, I think. We can get a graphic of that mocked up. YMCA, a local shit pool. This is an interesting theory that Eddie Izzard said to me a few years ago, which is, she goes, you can do comedy in English basically everywhere in the world right now. And I was shocked by that. I was like, wow. Basically, she was like, I went to Moscow. I played Germany. I played and just listed off all these places

where it's not English-speaking, predominantly English-speaking countries. And I was kind of astounded by it. And I hope to try that. Speaking of sort of pandemic revelations, mine is just like, well, no time like the present. I got to see more of the world, which is why I'm going to like Iceland and France. I'm going to do France. I know it's not an English-speaking country, but I'm going to like Iceland and you know and uh and in France I'm gonna do France I know it's a non-English speaking country but I'm going to do Paris but there'll be there'll be enough sort of British expats and there'll also be enough um people who love like every time I do

Montreal it seems to be just full of loads of people who love British comedy. So they've watched loads of sitcoms and they've watched loads of stand-ups and so they can tune their ear quite easily. What I love is that when I post up saying I'm going to Europe, some people genuinely think I've learned like eight other languages and I'm translating and I think, no, no, I'm really arrogant. I want you to come to me. Right.

We do this thing on the show called the slow round. And one of the questions I always ask, just because it's a strong sense memory, is do you have a smell that you remember from your own childhood? There was a perfume. I know that's probably too on the nose, but there was a perfume that I used to wear when I was a teenager that was, I mean, it smelled so sugary. I'm surprised I didn't get diabetes, like through my skin. And it was called exclamation. And it was, um, the tagline

on the, on the advert was, um, make a statement without saying a word. And the statement was, fuck, that stinks. But I think, I don't know why, cause I was very quiet and, and I think I don't know why because I was very quiet and and I think I it appealed to me the idea that I didn't have to say a word yeah yeah spoke for you spoke for you do you have a do you have a memory from that period like that's on a loop like that you just think of sometimes but it's not even a full story. I suppose, um, I kind of, I really remember, um, the last school disco we had and I bought a beautiful velvet dress that was sort of off the shoulder, very, uh, tasteful, but really nice. And I really thought that was going to make people look at me and talk to me and and I but it's all about how you walk in a room and I could have walked in a room with jeans on and

confidence and more people would talk to me because I just sort of moused into the room and stood in a corner in my lovely dress that nobody cared about and I think oh my gosh yes because this is well actually one of the the bits of material I wanted to talk to you about was sort of linked to that if I don't know how she became this and I think that's what my next show is about oh that's interesting how the person that you were as a kid became the person you are now I have no idea so somebody who I used to go to school with sent me a photograph only about a month ago that I've never seen of myself at the age of about 13. And she said, did you go on the skiing trip?

And I said, no. And she said, I'm pretty sure this is a photograph of the skiing trip. And I think there's a tiny chance that I went on a skiing trip and never skied. Like, what did I do? I'm not kidding. I don't know. Right. You just drank hot chocolate. Exactly. that I went on a skiing trip and never skied. Like, what did I do? Are you kidding? I don't know. Right. Because she's...

You just drank hot chocolate. Exactly. And the photograph I have on a blazer and it's out of school hours. So I'm wearing a fashion blazer at the age of 13. I have a brooch. I have a brooch on that I've chosen to go. Like, I think this is why I'm good at being 46

because I think I've always been 46 about 46 yeah yeah because I'm the same I'm the I have a joke in my new show where I go like I go this has been my hairline since I was like 15 when I was a teenager my hair was like it's stressful around here. We're going to have to lay off some strands. Like I basically look like this at 15. We can't keep all you guys on. We can't keep you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. I love that as an idea for a show though

because I know what you mean. It's like how do you arrive at sort of who you are from where you came from. And in the photograph, it's like how do you arrive at at sort of who you are from where you're kind of where you came from and in the photograph it's at a it's at a dinner table clearly in some kind of cafe or restaurant and there's three of the people one of whom is my bully i'm sitting beside my bully oh wow and no wonder i look sort of annoyed and wow i've got my brooch on like what i've got a brooch on and a blazer on. Everybody else is in like jumpers and earrings and they're all looking, you know, 13. And I look like I'm about,

I've got to get back to the office because I've got to do the wages. That's what, you know, I look, I look like I'm, you know, an office manager. Did your bully ever beat you up physically? No. So I, two or two shows ago, I wrote a story about a girl from school who emailed me with this huge long email. She emailed me sort of, I'd not seen her since we left school. And she emailed this huge life story, like who she married and what her kids are called and where she's lived and what she's done. Completely unsolicited. And she was awful to me at school and I replied and all I said was and because I thought you can't reply and say you were my bully

or you were awful to me because she might remember it differently so I replied this is probably the only reply you're going to get from me because I don't remember you very favorably. That's all I said. Oh my God, that's so funny. That is so polite. But also she can't come back on that because if I say I don't remember you favorably, she has no recourse on that. Because if she comes back, if I say you were my bully or you were awful to me,

she can say, no, that's not, you misremembered that. Where this way, she had no reply. And in fact, she didn't reply. And I love that that even though I felt kind of attacked by her when I was sort of um she would kind of be mean about me to other people and kind of push people away and that sort of thing and she's in this photograph and she's and she's the worst kind of bully that I think the one that pretends to be your friend um that is the worst kind and like so I was on

stage the other day and a woman I was talking to a woman in the audience and it's in like a thousand seat or whatever and she she shouted something out and then she said no Sarah and she kind of reprimanded me and I said no Sarah what I said was and I said oh are you a teacher because you're there's something about you I really don't like and I said that in front of a thousand and it got a response because she had been really patronizing. But it was a thousand people. And you think, I am sitting beside my bully, eating like nuggets or whatever,

and not able to even have the confidence to sit beside somebody else. Yet now I'm like sassing all over the place. You know what's so funny I wasn't gonna bring this up but you're saying the thing about email someone sent me an email the other day by accident but it was so extensive it was they I think it was autofill Mike some other Mike but it was extensive it was dear Mike I was sorry for us to learn you decided to say goodbye to our company. Though we haven't seen each other much in recent years, I've always enjoyed your view of things and know we will be the poorer without your good offices.

But I also know you have many other things that will keep you engaged. All the best for the future, Jonathan. And it's not me. I don't know who it is. I literally don't know who it is. This guy, Jonathan. So I wrote back, Jonathan, I think this wasn't intended for me unless I have forgotten a long period of my life. Sincerely, Mike Birbiglia. Email is out of control at this point.

But I don't feel like it's not, it's polite, but it's not specific. To me, it sounds like it's a cut and paste. Yes. And it's so offensive. It's almost worse than no email. I agree. But I feel like One of my rules is if I'm going to write

a terse email, if I'm writing a letter of complaint or something like this, I put the email address in last because the tendency is to start from the top

and you do email address then you do subject and you do that last because then if somebody says do you want a cup of tea and you go, oh, I'd love a cup of tea

and then send, oh my God, I hadn't finished it. I hadn't taken all the swearing out. So you need to do the email address. Email address last. I know, okay, for the listeners,

I know this seems like minutia. What Sarah's saying right now might seem, especially if you're younger, you're 20, you're listening, you might be like, who cares? Put the email in last. Doesn't matter. Actually, brilliant advice.

Yeah. And also, it could save your job. That I have just learned. It could save your job. It could save a relationship. It could save a friendship. Oh, my God. What is a piece of advice someone has given you in your life that you used and it worked?

So, I have two. One is something I came up with. So so it's not really answering the question but i use it all of the time and that is i came up with a thing called um i call it the 11 o'clock rule but a lot of people call it millican's law which i do not mind which is um if you do a gig and it goes badly you're only allowed to be annoyed at yourself until 11 a.m. the next day. Oh, I love that. Equally, if you nail it and you smash it and you have the best and they're carrying it on their shoulders, you're only allowed to be smug until 11 a.m. the next day.

Oh, wow. And the reason is no matter which of those ends of the spectrum you're going into your next gig, you will die. If you go in and think, and I'll be shit, you will die. If you go in thinking, I'll be amazing, you will die. So you shake it off. And I have been known to get up a bit earlier to be smug for longer, like set an alarm.

I need to be smug for two hours. I'm getting up at nine. And it was partly because when you do like the edinburgh fringe and you're doing a show every day sometimes multiple gigs a day you need to shake it off and you need to go in fresh on every single one so that's a slight cheat answer because i came up with that myself but i love that it was passed down to other comics and it's passed down from generation i think it's adorable uh building on that one, Jimmy Kimmel once gave me this piece of advice, which is it never went as well as you thought. It never went as poorly as you thought. Nice. And it's true. It's totally true. Advice Frankie Boyle gave me, I did one tour support

for him once, filling in for his normal tour support and he said nothing's ever wasted and i love that oh that's nice if you write a joke and it's not working in this show maybe in five years time it'll come back when you talk about that subject again it'll fit in a bit better or maybe you'll sell it to another comedian or maybe you'll write a play and it'll slot in somebody else's mouth you you know? Yeah. Or you could say it on a talk show or in a speech for something. So that really helped. But also, probably the best advice I've ever been given is from my dad.

And he said, there's nothing you can't do. There's no such thing as can't. He said, there's one thing you can't do, which is go up to your bedroom window, stick your bum out of the window, come back downstairs into the garden and throw stones at it. That is the only thing you can't do. And everything else is achievable. That's that is so funny. Let's unpack that. Because I feel like it's a little bit of an existential conundrum. You can't stick your butt out the window, go outside, throw stones at it

because your butt will be gone by the time you get downstairs. Yeah, makes sense. In other words, you can't be in two places at the same time. Yeah. Wow, I love that. But everything else is achievable. And it's such a great sort of blanket rule to have in your life that if somebody says, like I was told, women don't sell DVDs if somebody says like i was told women don't sell

dvds women just women female comics don't sell dvds so i just thought well maybe this one will and i worked really hard that's nice good for you yeah and i like the first dvd um uh broke records of female comics on dvd in the uk and And then, so I've had, it's weird because you guys call them specials. And I guess my next one will be special because DVDs don't exist. DVDs don't exist, yeah. No.

And some people still send me a message saying, are you making a DVD? And you think, I mean, maybe we'll burn one for you. But I don't think there's going to be loads. For posterity, yeah. Did you find, early on as a female did you did you find early on as a as a female comic did you find obstacles like that because i love that attitude of just like yeah maybe i'll maybe i'll break the record yeah i think it's um because so so i didn't find it so much on stage i think

initially i think it's better now i think when when a woman walks out on stage now because there are so many amazing female comics and so many amazing female comics working every day, that I think people go, they don't go, oh, it's a woman. And you don't get introduced on stage like the next comic, give her a go, you know, she might be all right. You know, you don't get that so much like you used to get in the early days. Did you used to get that? Yeah.

Was that real? They'd make a point of saying she. So people would say the next comic, she. And you could feel the audience go, oh. And it's amazing because when a bloke, when a male comedian doesn't do very well on stage, people don't go, men aren't funny. But when a female comic doesn't do well, not so much now, but back in the day, they did that. And I used to do sort of newspaper interviews, and often they would say one of the questions would be,

why aren't women funny? Wow. And you're like, but it's like to me. And that would be the question for you from the interview. Yeah, and often from a female journalist, not just, this is not, you know, especially a sexist thing. It's shocking. It's kind of like a common opinion, which is so weird.

Because it's like me saying, I find it's like me saying why aren't men tall like it just doesn't make any sense to me at all but it is much much better now and I think it's because there are just so many great female comics um but I feel like rather than telling people that you're good you just have to work and work and work so that if you know if an audience are a bit arms crossed because you're a woman you want them to uncross them you don't want to say you're not going to find me funny because you know you're a sexist or you just sit back and you just do your job and you do it well hopefully and then the arms become uncrossed and obviously it's different now because when I walk out on stage like if people are surprised I'm a woman I don't

know why they bought a ticket because it's like my name right my poster you know but it's I think it's less so now and certainly on television it's less so um and but I feel like when I was told like oh women don't sell dvds they didn't make me go oh well thanks anyway I'll see you another time i just thought well maybe they didn't but maybe they do now and maybe what you know i'm not very good at being told no We were talking about bullies earlier, and I wrote this down the other day. My dad never hit me as a kid, which is a relief. But the guy who punched me in the head 15 times when I was in ninth grade, his dad hit him. So in a way, that guy's dad hit me.

And I think what I'm saying is in life, you're bound to get punched by somebody's dad. And then maybe even someone's granddad. Like it could go on forever. Yes, yes, yes. It'sdad. Like, it could go on forever, couldn't it? Yes, yes, yes. It's generational. Yeah, it really is. And did he, while he was punching you, was he like, my dad did this to me? Was that how you found out?

No. You know what's so sad about it? You know what's so sad about it is that I found out, like, I was so mad about it. This guy beat me up a couple times, ninth grade, all boys Catholic school. And I was so mad about it. I was really obsessing about it every day. And this guy, Rich, who sat in front of me in every class, I would just blabber on, like, I'm so mad.

This is unfair. This guy beat the crap out of me and nothing happened to him, all this stuff. so mad this is unfair this guy beat the crap out of me and nothing happened to him all this stuff and one day rich said to me he goes well i don't think joey's dad is so nice to him and so maybe you're maybe you're just lucky that that that's not your dad And it really hit me hard. And it really stuck with me through my life of like thinking through when you have a hardship to think about the other people involved and what their backstory is. I don't care. Because that sounds to me like the chain is that you should then find

somebody else to punch so that it just carries on. But it's a brave person who stops the chain. Oh, certainly, certainly. But I don't think Rich was defending it. I think, honestly, Rich was being, trying to commiserate and just be like, look, this guy's kind of rough. And, you know, it's, I feel bad. Just let him have his fun. Let him have his fun.

This is his hobby. Yeah, yeah feel bad. Let him have his fun. Let him have his fun. This is his hobby. It's a family tradition. It's a family tradition. That's funny. Maybe that's the line is, uh, yeah, my dad never hit me. Yeah. You're bound to get punched by somebody's dad or grandfather or uncle. Boys are so mean to other boys.

And it's, it is clearly a way of expression isn't it it's because they're not he's not going to come up to you and go can i talk about how awful and abusive my dad is where i mean i'm not saying girls at that age would necessarily do that but girls do talk a lot more and that's how boys get it out of their system horrifically and hopefully that's turning and boys can express themselves more. But I do like the idea from a comedic point of view that he's just, oh, this is just what you do. This is what my family does.

Like he's a plumber. I'm going to be a plumber. He punches people. I'm going to punch people. My dad beats the shit out of people. I'm going to beat the shit out of people. My children are going to beat the shit out of people. And maybe this is the way to make his dad proud as well.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He comes in with like red. Carrying on the Grigioni name. Yeah, red knuckles. And Courtney's dad's like, my boy. Oh, my gosh. I like that. And then I got two other quick ones about my parents,

which is my mom calls every piece of technology invented past 1985 a car phone. And then she literally does. And then we got my dad an iPhone, but he treats it like a walkie-talkie. He's like, we'll meet you at the Olive Garden. Over. Order me a diet soda. Over. He only uses speakerphone.

I'm not sure he knows there's phone. And, you know, I'll be on the phone with him. He's like, God knows where he is. He'll, you know, he'll be like, Michael, tell me about your urology appointment. I'm like, Dad, am I on speakerphone in a grocery store? He's like, i on speakerphone in a grocery store he's like what speakerphone i'll have i'll have a half pound of provolone cheese it's an odd default if i ever am talking to somebody and i have it on speakerphone for whatever reason i will say you're on even if i'm in the house on my own i would still say you're on speakerphone it's me to announce it you can't it can't be the default but it's good that you know that it's the

default did it take you a while to realize that i think so i think i bet some people in some grocery stores know too much about you now oh my gosh tell me do you are you is there any material you're working on that you want to kick around? So I had a bit about, the vegetable slicer. And I bought it. I got so excited and I threw the instructions away because I'm not an idiot. And I never read instructions. I just press buttons and remember what it does. And I threw away something that was genuinely called a finger protector.

Oh, wow. I just threw it away. Oh, my gosh. And then I sliced vegetables and I was shouting to my husband because I need all of the attention we realized you know if you have a catchphrase in your house something that you say a lot mine is you're not looking it's the thing I say the most in our house you're not looking because I'm clearly always doing a bit so irritating and I was slicing a vegetable and I was slicing the vegetable and I went look Harry look and then I screamed and there was a tiny part of me on the bench still on a slice of courgette no and my husband will react in extreme ways so he either thinks it's fine or it's an ambulance and he went the wrong way on this one

and he handed me a bottle of like antiseptic sort of stuff and i was like oh no there's like part of me on the bench so then he did so this is the story that i'm trying how much of you how much of you just a tip not not loads tip of your finger okay yeah okay so then so he went he he rang uh to find like not like not like an emergency number, but rang to see, like, because there's certain rules about how long something bleeds for as to whether you need to go. And we didn't know. We didn't know. I know, yeah.

So he was doing an online quiz. An online quiz? So I said in the bit, like, obviously, like an NHS medical one. It wasn't like, tell me your favorite Disney princess and we'll tell you what pizza toppings you like. wasn't BuzzFeed and then and he was he was on the phone and also on a computer and both at the same time said um A&A you have to go to the emergency room so we get in the car the emergency room's 24 25 minutes away and I have a like a kitchen roll and I'm wrapping it around and it's just going red and I a kitchen roll and I'm wrapping it around and it's just

going red and I'm dropping it and I'm wrapping it around it's going red so much blood oh my god and then we got there and I was holding it aloft because I thought that would be the right thing to do and they brought me in with a nurse and the nurse and I handed her the bag because I'd seen on the television you take the bit of you in some ice. Oh, my God. So the bit of courgette, zucchini. I'm well away. And that had a little bit of finger on it. And it was in the bag of ice. And the nurse looked at it and she said, what were you going to have for your dinner?

Oh, my God. And I thought this was hilarious. That's a riot. That is a riot. And I said, like a stir fry? And she went, oh. And then she put her foot on the foot pedal of the bin and she dropped it in. And I said, are we not reattaching?

And she said, no, it's not worth it. Oh my God, that's so funny. I think it's really funny. And then she, because I said, like in the bit when I've tried it, and it doesn't really work and I don't know why, but I said said luckily this happened in like a city centre because if this had been in my hometown which is very small I would have been on the front page of the local newspaper and I had a headline of roly-poly local comic

baffles NHS and then like a nurse quoting saying it was some sort of cucumber or something like that but then what ended up happening because it it healed, obviously, it took ages. It's still a bit weird. But for a while, it was so sensitive that the line that I had was that it was so sensitive, I wondered that my clitoris had moved. Oh, my God. But what a much easier way, like a much better access, isn't it?

Oh, God. If it's on the end of there. Yes, sure, certainly. Head moved. This is very funny. Bodies are amazing. But it never quite works. And I don't know if it's because people are horrified by, and they can, you know, some people are really squeamish.

It is horrifying. I mean, it's very funny. It's also very horrifying. I had an incident during very funny. It's also very horrifying. I had an incident during pandemic that's pretty similar, which is, and I tried writing about it, but it's like, and we'll circle back to your story, but I thought this might lend some color to it. I was opening like a metal jar, basically. And it slit my finger open. And it was that one of those things were similar. It was like, it's not stopping. And I literally started crying because not just from the pain,

because it did hurt, but just from the thought of going to the hospital. Yeah, yeah. And also because right in the middle of like, I could go in with, you know, and come out with COVID, you know, and this was- That's what I mean, that's what I mean. Talk about adding insult to injury. Self-inflicted because I fancied a fan like a nicer way of having vegetables

i tried to make vegetables more fun and one of the things when i first cut it and i put it under the i thought i'll run under the tap which really hurt terrible idea but my husband had had a kiwi fruit and had sliced the top off and left it in the sink and it perfectly filled the plug hole so the sink was just filling up with my blood and it was just so many horrific images okay so okay so this is instructive this is instructive no no here's what i think is like it's a great story and it's got great punch lines i would thin out how how long you spend in the injury section because it's so squeamish and it's so painful. And, and I would just try to find the joke soil of the punchline. So like, there's the great line where she goes, what were you cooking? Yeah. You know,

which is just a great line. And I feel like there's a potential joke there, which is like, well, I tried to cook my foot and I missed, you know, um, like, like I feel like there's a potential joke there which is like well i tried to cook my foot and i missed you know um yeah like like i feel like there's something there and i also feel like it's um like unpacking like ira glass who's been on this podcast a bunch of times and we've collaborated a lot over the years he always asked me this great question which is is like, you have the story, and then you have how you feel about the story. Right, yes. And a lot of storytelling is just like, and then I sliced my finger, and then how did I feel about that? And then we drove in the car, and then how did I feel about that? And then we talked to the nurse, and then how did I feel about that?

And I feel like you have great plot, and you're a little short on how do i feel about it yeah and also i think sometimes when you tell truthful stories the tendency is to tell it all when really you don't need it all you don't have to yeah because you want to be honest so you think well i have to tell them the bit about the drive and when maybe if that's not funny or it's not moving it along then maybe you can take stuff out as well but no you're right maybe it needs less plot and more I mean more jokes for sure but also more reaction yeah you're right there's also a potential there's also a potential circle back at the end which is like you know my takeaway from this whole experience is I should not be eating so healthy well I thought because I was trying to lose weight and I kind of did. But just a really small amount of weight. Oh, that's funny.

That's funny. I like that too. I kind of did. I lost about two ounces. If I could do that just like, you know, daily. Oh my God, that's horrible. I have nine other fingers and thumbs that I could take the edge off. Just to make my Weight Watchers lady happy.

Oh my God. Oh, that's so funny. So do you have any more bits that you want to run past? Let me have a look. Oh, I've got one little, I've got one little. So I have this bit that doesn't quite work about how I'm very emotional perhaps too emotional and my husband is the other extreme so I think if in years to come somebody said 20 years time an FBI agent was sitting in my kitchen in the black suit and the curly wire which is how I

imagine and they said you've been married to a robot for 20 years I'd go oh sure of course but why did you give me a robot with asthma and they would say to make it robot for 20 years i'd go oh sure of course but why did you give me a robot with asthma and they would say to make it more believable and i'd go that makes total sense because otherwise you'd be like why is he never at the doctors why doesn't he have a prescription for anything he's in his 40s surely he should have a prescription so maybe i need to you know not necessarily a spider diagram but you know when you sometimes you talk on stage and you talk bigger and you go out in different directions and then yeah work out the funny bits and then bring it back into just those bits oh yeah that's what i think i think that's great i think i think that for me

where it sings is where a lot of times when i'm working on jokes with collaborators like i think about like where is it where is it really hooking me in and And then where am I sort of getting bored or losing the thread? Where it really hooks me in is where you go, like, why would I give it asthma if it's a robot? Because it's like a high concept of what if my husband's a robot secretly? And then it's this sort of observational personal jab in the middle of like, why would have asthma which is like i feel like you could do three of those why does he have a high hairline why does he you know what i mean like why he wears glasses yeah yeah why do you wear glasses exactly he's got perfect vision he's a robot he doesn't have any fillings and his teeth so they you know that's right that's not right is it but i feel

like that's like a perfect example of like i sometimes uh you know when joe and i are working on stuff we'll call that like joke soil like the area where the jokes could be in the premise yes i think there could potentially be a causality to that where you go where you say the premise of i think you might be a robot and you do your jokes there and then you say um and every once in a while, I'll see evidence of it. I mean, I do plug him in every night. Exactly. Sometimes he needs updating. Yeah, sometimes when I plug him in.

Yeah, I think I need to make it more ridiculous as well because at the moment it's all just you know it's a bit silly and it's not really pushed it too far down that road i like that though that's a good little ping pong it's like every now and then there are clues like i'll plug him in at night and i'll think why does he need this much power? Oh, maybe, yeah. Well, thank you for that. I think it's sometimes it's so easy when something doesn't work the first time to just be too scared to tinker and just to think, oh, I'm just going to leave that then. Yeah.

And also the how you feel of it all is like in some ways, like, wouldn't that be nice if that were true? You know what I mean? Yeah. Or, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like, when I was younger, I did think, will I ever get a boyfriend? And maybe I still haven't had one. Right, right, right, right.

It also, by the way, ties into the cutting your finger, too, because his reaction to that is not quite. Oh, yeah. And the fact that he was on the phone and on the doing the quiz yes yeah that's true oh that's nice thank you so the final thing we do is called working it out for a cause and we and basically we take if you have a non-profit that you to support, I contribute to them and I link to them in the show notes. Oh, that's so kind. Thank you. There's a British charity called the Samaritans who run a phone line for people who are struggling with mental health problems and with potential suicidal thoughts.

And it is 24-7 and they are incredible. And everybody who works for them on the phone lines are all volunteers. So all the money goes to keeping the phones on and keeping are incredible. And everybody who works for them on the phone lines are all volunteers, so all the money goes to keeping the phones on and keeping everything running. And we support them on the tour, and we raised £185,000 on the last tour, and we're doing it again on this tour. And I thought the numbers would be lower

because people have obviously spent their savings or they haven't earned anything or they've been furloughed or whatever. People have had a lot less money less money but amazingly because of the power of people it's actually gone up and i think it's because when you know when people have got nothing they help other people who have nothing and i think it's extraordinary and we get people to throw in uh on the way out and that money stays in that area so i always say like this could end up say you know helping somebody in this actual room you know because the money stays in that area. So I always say like, this could end up say, you know, helping somebody in this actual room, you know, because the money stays in the area and they call the Samaritans and they're incredible. They're absolutely amazing. That's great. Well, I'm

going to, I'm going to contribute to them and I'm going to link in the show notes and Sarah, thanks for doing this. This is like, what a blast talking to you. I feel like I could talk to you about jokes for like 15 hours straight. Oh, it was so much fun. Thank you. And really helpful. I love that you can have a nice podcast chat and then you come away with like new ideas for your jokes. That's going to do it for another episode of Working It Out. I love that Sarah Millican.

She's so funny. See her live if you can. She is touring all over the place, all over the world. You can follow her on Twitter at at Sarah Millican 75 or on Instagram at at the Sarah Millican. Our producers of Working It Out are myself, along with Peter Salamone and Joseph Birbiglia, consulting producer Seth Barish, sound mix by Kate Balinski, sound recordist Parker Lyons,

associate producer Mabel Lewis, thanks to my consigliere Mike Berkowitz, as well as Marissa Hurwitz and Josh Uppfall. Special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers for their music. As always, a very special thanks to my wife, the poet J. Hope Stein. Our book is the new one. It merges comedy and poetry. It's at your local bookstore. And as always, a special thanks to my daughter, Una,

who helped create the original radio fort made of pillows. Thanks so much for listening. If you're liking the show, throw us some stars on Apple Podcasts. Write a little review about why you like it i read them all i actually find the feedback to be very helpful um it's uh it's helpful to understand what people are connecting to about the show i'm loving this journey if you like the show tell your friends maybe even mention it to your enemies we're working it out see you next time everybody