Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 67. Lynn Shawcroft: How Mitch Hedberg Wrote Jokes

Episode Date: March 7, 2022

Last summer, Mike revistied to the classic comedy album "Strategic Grill Locations" by his friend, the late great Mitch Hedberg. The listening experience was so transcendsnt that it inspired Mike to call Mitch's wife Lynn Shawcroft and ask if she would be open to coming on the podcast and discussing Mitch's joke writing process. The two old friends discuss daydreaming, free associating, and how sometimes jokes that feel like one-liners are actually stories unto themselves. Plus, they share stories about Mike and Lynn opening for Mitch, and the time that three of them went bowling and Mitch couldn't believe how bad Mike was at bowling. Please consider donating to: The Bail Project

I bought a donut and they gave me a receipt for the donut. I don't need a receipt for the donut, man. I'll just give you the money, then you give me the donut and the transaction. We don't need to bring ink and paper into this. I just can't imagine a scenario where I would have to prove that I bought a donut. Hey everybody, that was the voice of the late, great Mitch Hedberg, Hey, everybody. That was the voice of the late, great Mitch Hedberg, one of my favorite comedians of all time.

I think one of the best to ever do it. It is from his album, Strategic Grill Locations. I was friends with Mitch. We are lucky enough to have on today. I think the premier Mitch Hedberg expert in the world, Lynn Shawcroft, who's a comedian herself, and was married to Mitch.

And as a friend of mine, I was friends with Mitch, I've been friends with Lynn for a long time. We have a great conversation. I mean, it basically came out of this thing where I was listening to that album this summer, and I thought, man, this podcast is all about joke construction. And that's the best joke construction I have ever encountered.

Maybe I should ask Lynn if we could just talk about that album and how Mitch came up with jokes. And so she was really into it. And so that's how we ended up with this episode today. We're actually just announcing a few new shows. We added a second show in Washington, D.C. at the Warner Theater, which is where one of the places I opened for Mitch Hedberg was at the Warner Theater. I opened for him, Louis Black, and Dave Attell in the early 2000s. It was a dream.

We just added a third show in London. I'm doing five weeks in Los Angeles at the Taper Theater. I'm doing five weeks in Chicago at the Steppenwolf Theater. All of this is on Burbiggs.com. Sign up for the mailing list and enjoy my conversation with the great Lynn Shawcroft. So you and I met almost 20 years ago, which is amazing. I know. At Joker's Comedy Club in Dayton, Ohio.

I'm going to put this out there. Time flies. Right? Yeah, yeah. The idea going to put this out there. Time flies. Right? Yeah, yeah. The idea that that's 18 years ago is outrageous. There was a point where 18 years wasn't even our life. Like, we hadn't even got there. Yeah.

Okay. No, certainly. Certainly, that's true. So I picked you up because I was one of the opening acts for Mitch Hedberg, who was your husband. You were one of the opening acts. The three of us were the, were the bill. The three of us were the bill on the, the, the, the Dayton Jokers comedy club. Yes.

Uh, uh. Yes. In Dayton, Ohio. In Dayton, Ohio that week. Yeah. And, um, it's when I met you, we became friends and close friends. It was a big deal for me because I was a fan of Mitch's work since the 90s when I started learning about comedy. Really?

Yeah. So my sister, Gina. How did you know of them? Probably Letterman's or Word of Mouth. Letterman and Comedy Central Presents, which was, what was that, 1998? That was 1999. 99. And like, which is also I think the same year of Strategic Grilling Locations, which is

the album that we're talking about today. Yeah. Strategic we recorded. Probably 98 for 99, right? Yeah're talking about today. Yeah. Strategic, we recorded... Probably 98 for 99, right? Yeah. Yeah, 99, yeah. Maybe I'm getting the Comedy Central mixed up. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, so, like, my sister Gina, when I was in college, this is the late 90s, would send me comedy specials. So she would send me, like, this is the Margaret Cho special, this is the Sarah Silverman special, this is the Mitch Hedberg special. These are the cool comedy specials This is the Sarah Silverman special. This is the Mitch Hedberg special. These are the cool comedy specials.

She has great taste in comedy. And she worked in comedy at the time. And she sent me Mitch's. And I watched it. It was VHS cassettes. And I watched it on a loop. Wow. I watched it over and over again. And that would have been the edited.

Yeah. Broke the ribbon on the VHS. Oh, my God. And, yeah, and so, like, and so then when I met you in Dayton, because this is a classic thing, at least from way back when, is, like, the opening act would, like, pick up the headliner in his or her crappy car. Some places used to also have the opener drive, pick up at the airport.

There was all shady dealings going on. So like, it's funny because Jim Gaffigan and I were talking on this podcast like a few months ago about how because comedy in recent years has become so popular, it's become pop culture. It's become mainstream pop culture. A lot of times people don't realize that people like Mitch Hedberg and Jim Gaffigan and me to a lesser extent came up in a time when comedy clubs were, first of all, not a viable profession, Joyce. No, no, no.

Like at all. No, no, no. Like, at all. Like, at all. Like, the people who chose to do comedy in the 90s were, like, a little bit nuts. I've always described people, I don't know, back then, in order to get to a next level and then a next level, it has to be a pure obsession. Yeah. Just a pure obsession. Yeah. Just a pure obsession. That's it.

That's all that matters. You'll drive six hours to do five minutes. A hundred percent. That kind of thing. Not saying people don't do that now, but that was the requirement. Well, it's funny you should say obsession because that's what Malcolm Gladwell was on the podcast too. And we were talking about the nature of genius. And he doesn't like the word genius, which of course gets attributed to Mitch, your late husband, all the time. But he doesn't like the word genius in general because he likes to think of genius.

The closest approximation is, I'm going to paraphrase him, but it's obsession with a single topic. Obsession. And Mitch, when he started, he did it once. He knew right away he was going to do it, and that was it. That's interesting. Blinders on, whatever it took. Yeah. And obsessed.

That's fascinating. Obsessed. He bombed for six years solid. Oh, my God. He would go to a club, and the way he looked at a club, every club in the country, no matter how he got there, was a place like, I'm going to go burn that club because I won't get invited back.

Oh, my God, no. No. Yeah. No way. He looked at a club as, I will work, I will get that time, and they won't have me back because he knew he would bomb. I couldn't even handle bombing in Dayton. We all bombed in Dayton.

Yeah. I think we all bombed a little bit in Dayton. Well, it was hit or miss were pretty hot. And like Mitch, it was right around the moment in the early 2000s where Mitch was starting to go from being a comedian who had done some television spots to someone who people would drive five or six hours to see him because what he was doing was so special. was so special? Well, I mean, prior to him doing Letterman's and his Comedy Central special, he would go to North Dakota three times a year. He had certain clubs that ended up liking, so he'd go there and he'd spend weeks there and do his things. But in 1999, when his special came out, we first started to, that's when around the time I met him.

And we were going on the road together. And I'd be like, and only two clubs were headlining him at that point. So I remember going and going, oh, my God, I think there was a table that knew who you were. Oh, wow. Like that. And he's like, really? And then by the end of that year, everybody in the audience knew who he was. It was a whole different, it was a switch.

Like within like a year or 18 months, it was like, those people, oh, yeah. And then that was it. Like people would call for Mitch. Wow. Whereas people also, I don't know if they do that much now, but back in the day, I'm sure you must have discussed this. When people went to a comedy club, they would just go, I'm going to comedy. And whatever it was, was there. Yes. As a general concept. I remember years after Mitch having an audience, he had this one, we did this one show in the Miami Improver or something. Like it was

a convention and they didn't know who Mitch was. And he's like, I don't want to convince anybody anymore you know what I mean oh my god yeah I've done my convincing that's amazing so we met and dated and then Jokers was a trip

yeah it was great but it was yeah it was a trip I mean it was like there was like you know there was like

bachelorette party like trinkets and stuff in the lobby that they'd sell yeah sex toys yeah Yeah, sex toys. Yeah, there were sex toys. Yeah.

Literally. It was. And I think part of my job was to get someone from the audience to do like a crazy shooter. But I loved Lisa who owned it. Because you were the host. It was awful. It was terrifying. Someone had to like do shots.

And there was a blow up dildo thing. Yes there was a blow-up dildo thing. Yes. Or a blow-up penis, yeah. But the person who ran it, Lisa, was amazing, remember? Yeah, Lisa was great. Lisa Grisby. Lisa's great. I mean, she loved comedy.

She had great taste in comedy. She ran a great room, but she also was aware that the audience in room, but, like, she also was aware that, like, the audience in Dayton, Ohio at that time was very focused on, like, bachelorette parties, seeing someone who's been on television, filling the room with whoever you can fill the room with. Where were you at that point? Like, where would you have been at this point when you came and picked us up? Where were you as far as comedy goes? So I was at a point where I was driving around the country in my mom's station wagon, which I had essentially borrowed.

I mean, I paid for it, but I didn't give her past the first payment. So it's like, what is that? And you've been paying it off ever since. Yeah, exactly. I couldn't afford the payments. And so I was driving around the country and I would literally, and this is what happened in Dayton, I would drive to a club. It was Greg Warren, who was friends with Lisa in that club. And Greg was like, you know, I could put you in touch with, he was someone I had met on the road and he's a great comic. And he was like, I can put you in touch with Dayton Joker's Comedy Club. And I talked to Lisa, and she basically said, like, well, why don't you come by the club and just do a set, and then I'll know what you do.

So you would have driven from New York to go to the set? You were in obsession phase. Yeah, so I basically drove like essentially 11 hours to do an unpaid five-minute set in front of the amazing Jonathan, who's a magician comedian fellow. And then I got there. This is before I opened for you and Mitch. I got there and amazing Jonathan said, I will not be having openers on my show. And so instead, Lisa had me do the lighting and sound for Amazing Jonathan. And I've never done lighting and sound.

I had no idea what I was doing. The bit of Amazing Jonathan is he yells at the lighting and sound person. And so I drove 11 hours, stayed in, Ohio for an unpaid set to audition. I didn't audition. I did lights and sound. I didn't perform comedy. I was yelled at for an hour. What is it about you that will say yes to do things that you don't know how? I think you told me about when you had 50 minutes of material, you're like, I can do half an hour.

I mean, how do you – I wish I had an ounce of what you have as far as that. I'm like, I don't know. But good. It's awesome. So you're getting abused. Yeah, so I'm getting abused. And then Lisa actually, the owner of the club, felt bad. And then she was like – basically like, I trust that you're funny.

I believe you. We'll put you down for a week. She showed me the calendar of who was coming up. And I was like, Mitch Hedberg, could I trust that you're funny. I believe you. Just do it. We'll put you down for a week. She showed me the calendar of who was coming up, and I was like, Mitch Hedberg? Like, could I do that? And she was like, sure. And I mean, I put it in my calendar, and I had blue highlighter on it,

and I had stars around it, and it was like literally like a dream come true. Like, there's certain things I feel like in comedy or show business or art of any kind where the thing that you think would be the apex of one's journey actually isn't. It's another thing that you wouldn't expect. So like meeting you and Mitch and opening those shows that week was as big a deal as doing Letterman or doing my own Netflix special or bigger. Well, that's, I think, with art and performance when the whole have you made it.

The first thing you might make is when you get on an open mic. The second thing might be when you get on again. This first mic thing when you paid MC. So it's all these things. I remember we were in Seattle and Mitch was being interviewed in between shows

and the guy was like, you're the Mitch Hedberg, you're the big guy. And Mitch is like, I just feel like I'm, what's it like to a man? He's like, I'm working. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, Mitch never viewed it that way. He's like, I'd have to be in almost a swimming pool with champagne, which isn't going to happen, to really be like, it's not like that. It's just different levels, yeah.

One of the reasons why I find him so interesting, because I feel like you and I knew this at the time, and of course, you're not just Mitch's wife. You're a great comedian. You collaborated with Mitch on so many jokes. And like, you... He wrote all his own stuff. I know he wrote all his own stuff,

but like, I was with you, the two of you, and I would see how things would become. And the way in which you would conversate about premises and ideas and how a joke would go on a given show. You were really like, if you weren't a co-writer, you were a producer. I wasn't a co-writer you were a producer you were i wasn't a co-writer at all but um and we can go back to his writing a little bit put a sure of course put a pin in that please um the one thing i knew about mitch is so when mitch went on stage and he closed his eyes yeah um it was it was about the fact that when you're on stage you're gonna

you're as a comedian you look in the audience for him he'd go to the person that had a negative face sure i do too it was all about kind of this positive energy so he closed his eyes so he basically he'd hear the audience it became like a you know on a um when you see the things on a microphone audio thing? Yeah, like a waveform, yeah. And all his jokes would go like this, and he'd never do anything in the same order ever. And when I was backstage, I would close my eyes and think that too. And we both had this thing where, oh,

that joke only has a certain maximum level of laughter potential. Yeah. There are certain jokes that, because also a comedy show isn't build, build, build. It's build, break, build, break. That's how he saw it. It was almost like he was in an energy exchange with the audience. It was like vibrational comedy or whatever.

Yeah. So I would listen to that too. And then I'd be like, oh my God, rabbits got you drunk, got a bit higher on the scale. So like that sort of thing. So I understood all that and I understood him intuitively. But, yeah, he wrote his own stuff. If carrots got you drunk, rabbits would be fucked up.

Because sometimes if you put it at an end of thing, it could tail off a laugh. Yes. Or if he somehow intuitively moved it before or who knows whether it'd be pause joke pause yeah does that make all sense it's like it's very music like comedy is an energy you're like how are you making a how are your words going into a human being's body and they laugh like it's right it's an vibration right yeah and i think technically what's going on and i think specifically with his stuff because it was so not referential it wasn't about pop culture it wasn't about

television shows it wasn't it was a it was about purposely yeah purposely it was about human experiences interactions observations uh that that really i mean and i think this is part of his legacy and why like 20 years later we're talking about Mitch. Yes. Is like. He saw that though. He kind of understood that in the beginning when he started

and he did longer jokes and he talked about drugs more and talked about girls. But he was like, you know, he was an obsession, wanted to be good. Yeah. He knew that if he was going to go into those areas, he had to be the best. Yeah. And a lot of people covered that.

So he really kind of thought it out. And then doing something that dates you so much, which is fine, but he used products and stuff, is he kind of understood that those will lock you into a time. Sure. That those will lock you into a time. Sure. And I've noticed as years go by with his jokes, I can look at his jokes and almost like you can unpack them and reference them to something now. Yes. Somehow.

Yeah, no, I get that. Like, I wish I could be a race car passenger. Yeah. You know, and I'd be like, you sure, like, you should do like Tide. Just the guy who bugs the driver. Yeah, yeah. Just the guy who bugs the driver. So the race car passenger part works without the Tide even. That's right.

Race car passenger. Just the guy who bugs the driver. Hey, man, can you slow down? Yeah. We need you to take a right. All those sort of things. Or even the escalator joke. An escalator can never break.

I see people on Twitter all the time going, oh, a toothbrush can never break. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. An escalator can never be broken. It can only become stairs. Am I talking too much? No, no, if anything. It's so good to see you.

I can't tell you. I feel warm inside. Oh, me too. It's so fun to talk. We could literally digress for four hours. I know. If we were having a coffee, it would be like, okay, but what about, remember when we were in this club? Remember there was that place that was this and the stairs were called the Widowmaker

because they were so steep? There's a million things. Working It Out is brought to you in part by Helix Mattresses. That's like my real radio voice right there. Brought to you by my Helix Mattresses. The truth is my real radio voice right there. But how do you buy my Helix mattresses? The truth is, I'm going to take away my radio voice. I'm going to discard my radio voice. I'm going to go, look, I love Helix mattresses. I'm going to tell you, I'm going to give you the short sale. Shows up in a box. You take it out. It opens up, you know, like it's much

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I'll be on. Not me. I'll be on. Yep. Letterman or Colbert tomorrow. And it takes about 10 years to really, it doesn't take you to be funny, but really, really to get it. Because comedy is like yoga.

You don't finish. Yes. You don't win. You don't win. Like, you don't finish yes you don't win you don't win like you don't be like i won yoga or something i remember karen coke era once said to me i won yoga today i'm like oh my gosh you're not funny yeah but that's like comedy like it don't it's a never anything but to get like how long many years did it take you to just be kind of like where you're not churning? Like when you wake up and it's not a cloud of craziness coming up for the day. I think truly like seven to ten years because I started when I was 19,

and when I was 30, I did Sleepwalk with me, and it was the first time where it was a cohesive show, which is kind of like the shows that I do now. Yeah, and you were in control a bit of the audience. Yeah. Yeah. But it's crazy because here's the great, if people are listening to this

and they don't know Mitch's work or they do know Mitch's work, this is for all of you. And if you don't know his work, listen to all the albums. They're some of the great comedy albums. And what's fascinating, I find, is I'll talk to a range of people who love Mitch and still listen to Mitch. Jimmy Fallon will just quote a joke.

Jimmy Fallon? Yeah. Jimmy Fallon will just quote a joke. Jimmy Fallon? Yeah. One time I put out a box set in 2016 of Mitch's albums. Yeah. Did I send you? You wrote something.

Yeah, I have it. I think I must have got one. I have it, yeah. It's in my living room, yeah. And Jimmy Fallon one time had Tom Cruise on and he gave it to him. Oh, my God, really? Yeah, he's like, I've got something you'd really like and he gave it to Tom Cruise.

Yeah, no, he's, no, Jimmy's obsessed with Mitch's work. To me, there's no comedy, period. Yeah. Like once you've been in it, like there's a lot of, it's a small thing. But then like what's funny is like I've also been around like people who you wouldn't expect, just people who work in banking or advertising.

Oh, yes. And it's, you know, these are albums from 20-something years ago and they're quoting them like clockwork. I know. And it's not one of those things where, listen, comedy in a nostalgia way will always get us. Like, we'll always laugh at Eddie Murphy. We'll always laugh at these things we saw along the way.

But the fact that someone can get new people to listen is mind-boggling. It is amazing. It's a testament to this thing, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, so the thing that i feel like people often get wrong about mitch is that they and actually he said this to me at one point he he he said to me like because over the the fuller story is that like i ended up opening opening for him yeah yeah

a handful of times like you're just a scrappy, cute little kid. You look exactly the same. You're exactly the same. I was scrappy. I was scrappy. I don't know if no scrappy is the right word, but you were in it. So there was a first, and this is a little bit of comedy history, and this is, I think, how it should be written up

when they talk about this comedy boom. In the early 2000s, there was a Comedy Central live theater tour starring Louis Black, Mitch Hedberg, Dave Attell. Oh, yeah, that's a few years later down the road. Yeah, and it was kind of one of the first times. I mean, there was Kings of Comedy, there was Blue Collar Comedy Tour, but it was one of the first times where there was... Kings of Comedy was so good.

Yeah, but there was a theater comedy tour. And it was like, this is mainstream. We're in theaters. We're at the Warner Theater in D.C. We're at the Tower in Philadelphia. We're doing a full theater tour. We're doing the Beacon. About a year prior, Mitch always wanted to do theaters, though.

Yeah. He had visions. He wanted his own tour bus. This is how he fulfilled this. He wanted his own tour bus, and because he didn't get it already, we got our own motorhome. Mitch did his own thing. Yeah.

He wanted an HBO special, and the year he got booked, they weren't doing them. This is really on. So we filmed our own specials on 16 millimeters. Oh, my God. Unbelievable. I remember when he's like, even if

Hollywood never calls us again, we can put up our own show. He would have done it. About a year and a half prior, he decided he wanted to do theater. We did some theaters in Austin and lost a ton of money. The theaters are, you have to fill it

up to 70% and then it's pure profit. Sure. So anything under your loose. So we lost, but he wanted to do that. It's expensive to rent theaters. Yeah. A hundred percent.

And pay people, there's unions. Yeah. So we might break even or just do it, but he did it. He did it. Wow. And he didn't make it to the making money, but we would do our own thing. Because another thing he did is when, back then, when you went on tour, what did it rely on? The comedians going to morning radio.

Yep. Doing call-in radios and also an ad in the newspaper. Mitch would take out his own ads. No way. He would take our own pictures. No way. And he would send things in. No way.

Yeah, I have some. He would take out his own ads. He would take out his own, like, coming to Acme and he'd, like, put Lynn and then he'd, like, put his friend's name on and it'd be like Mitch and we'd make our own thing. Because he just liked doing this stuff. Do you know Mitch wrote a book

called The Drifter's Handbook? No. God, no. Okay, before I met him. So, Mitch comes down to a few things. Comedian, traveler, creative. Okay, so Mitch only had two jobs in life. He was a cook. Yeah.

And then he was a comedian. Right. And he said when he got to be a cook, he chopped the vegetables he liked, and he was like, I want to be a chef. So then he started frying things. Yeah. That was it. So then he started frying things yeah that was it so then he got into that and so when he he left home when he was 18 he just basically packed a

bag and left during the day and him and his friends went to California and he had a girlfriend in San Diego and then they went to Tempe and he ended up in Florida yeah grew up in Minnesota yeah yeah so he was traveling and he was like a cook was a great job because you go into a town, you get a cook job that day. Yeah. And then they moved to Florida, him and his friend T.O. that he knew from Minnesota. And he got there, and he's like, you know, go to Florida because you can sleep on the beach. You can meet girls. Oh, my God.

It was a dream. You know what I mean? He had long hair. Girls liked it. Loving it. girls. It was a dream. You know what I mean? He had long hair, girls liked it, loving it. And so him and his friend Teal figured out all these tricks to do if you're a traveler. So he wrote the thing called the traveler's handbook. And it was all these like cheats on going to a motel at 1030 for you see a room open and they've checked out, pretend you're going back into shower,

go to a bar at happy hour and get happier food. And he published it in the back of Rolling Stone magazine. So he, that was a golden time for him. You know, he said, but I don't know if you remember back then you could see, or if they have them now, like in Florida, you'd see condos and there'd be this big sign coming out, $99 move-in special. So him and his friends would get that they'd both get jobs as cooks then they'd hang out the bit like girls sex music you know innocence like he was always had that vibe and that's where he started doing comedy in florida yeah i can't believe the drifter's handbook yeah but the fact that he like called he was when i very first first met Mitch and fell in love with him, I was like, is this guy? I knew he was a genius in this magical thing.

And then when we met, and we both met at LA, and then we went to the national car rental. He had all his car rental stuff. He knew the codes. I'm like, there's a duality for him. He knew all flights. The fact that he would make his own ads. And I mean, I looked through his notebooks. He was continuously documenting his own career.

He made little documentaries about himself. Not only that, here's two misconceptions and I'll unpack them. I'll try to remember both of them. One is, misconception is like, he's a stoner. He's not ambitious. He just sort of happened to wander in One is, misconception is like, he's a stoner. He's not ambitious. He just sort of happened to wander in and say all these genius things. He had to smoke weed to think that, yeah.

Meanwhile, it couldn't be farther from the truth. Like, literally, he told me that like when he was starting out, he would cold call comedy clubs around the country. And he would just say like, I was on The Tonight Show. I was this. And it was like, not even true. Well, that's back then, one of the hardest things is because you don't get a manager agent right away. The hardest thing is getting through to clubs. And clubs had managers with a million things. He also had, here's another thing that helped him tremendously

in the beginning. He met a girl named Jana in Florida, and they moved in. And she was lovely, creative, and beautiful, but she was more organized. So she would do like, I'm Mitch's agent. I'm calling from Seoul. So together. So he had a bit of that security with her. Mitch also, it's also, he wrote Postcards Home over the years. Wow. So he'd be in Minnesota. I don't know if you've seen them on my Instagram or my Twitter. Oh, yeah, yeah.

You'll see them. There are all these things going home, so you can kind of plot where he was and what he was doing. He documented everything. So that was one thing, yeah, that was one thing that I think is a misconception. The other thing that he pointed out to me once is people always would compare him to Stephen Wright and they would view him as a one-liner comedian. But he thought of himself more in the vein of like Steve Martin. Like he was always like, that's who I looked up to growing up was Steve Martin. So I don't understand when people say you're like Stephen Wright.

He understood why people said that because of how people perceive things. Like it's very, he, and also you can attest to this. Think of all his lettermans and his special. It's very joke, joke, joke, and there's no interaction. Whereas you knew him in real life, he was much more interactive and goofy and ridiculous on stage. Whereas people see that joke, joke, joke, and a lot of people call him a one-liner comedian. Yeah. And that's not true.

About a year after I met him, I started to notice his writing patterns, how it would come and what spurts. He would basically write in spurts of four and a half, five minutes, which is why he got Letterman so much. Wow. He got Letterman because he always had those jokes ready. Yeah. So he would write in four and a half, like he's like, it would all just sort of come out. And at the end, he was writing on stage, whereas before he wasn't. So in a four and a half minutes, you might have a Dufresne, which is 14 lines.

Yeah. But the reason people think it's one liner is because you can take one line out of that and it seems like a punchline. But as far as Stephen Wright, a lot of people compared him, and Stephen Wright's a genius, you know. Yeah, sure. He's just incredible. But I remember Mitch saying, you know, it's like, I don't know if his analogy was really good,

but something like potato chips inside a Pringles is still a potato chip. I don't know what that means, but something. But yeah, he really, Mitch really, really didn't like being influenced. That was his thing. Oh, interesting. But in the beginning, what he got, he remembers he saw, like it would be like he saw Colin Quinn once and Colin destroy. And Mitch was like, I want to destroy.

And then he'd see someone else who was comfortable on stage, that sort of thing. Yeah. You know know so it wasn't necessarily emulating anyone it was oh but he knew that he wanted even though he might have had shorter jokes he wanted to be able but to build and destroy which is hard with joke pause joke right so that sort of thing it was, if you think of it as a wave and energy. Yeah. Like, as he got more well-known, coming to the stage would bring huge laughters and then you have to

follow that laughter. So you have to be able to make movement. He was clearly obsessed with the rhythm of a comedy hour. Yeah, maybe that's why it came out.

Yeah, he knew them. He said once, we were watching Jamie Foxx and Jamie Foxx, I love, came out on stage and was like slowly dancing to the microphone,

like taking minutes like a boxer. And the audience is going nuts. Yeah. And then, you've got to follow that. Yes, yes.

You know what I mean? How do you take that energy and bring, like if you think of it as energy, how do you take that energy to come in you and make it right, you know? Well, yeah, that's, like, a famous line that people say is, like, you can't follow the costume kind of thing, which is, like. Oh, really?

I've never heard of it. Oh, that's interesting. Like, the idea of, like, if you walk on stage in a theater in a wetsuit and you're dripping wet and people are like, oh, that's funny, wetsuit. And then it's like, then what? Then how do you take that? Yeah. Yeah. How do you build?

And even like Mitch has that great joke about pancaking. Yes. Where he talks about like how he's like, I don't want my set to be like pancakes where the first few are exciting and then you're like, it all feels like the same, you know, or something like that. Comedy is a lot like eating pancakes um exciting at first but then you don't want to be sick of them

i'm gonna make that a new thing he's pancaking i i mean you have much more structured shows now but do you remember doing comedy and getting off the stage is like oh i remember mitch going oh no i should have golfed three minutes ago he He'd slowly move the microphone stand towards the thing because he's lurking for a certain peep. I keep closing my eyes. Do you know what I mean by energy now? Yeah. You know this.

It becomes a comedian's thing. But do you ever remember being like, oh, no, the bloke closer didn't work? No, of course. I used to just be like, okay, bye, and sneak off. No, I mean, sometimes I'll be on stage when I do shorter, like at the Comedy Cellar, and I'll say to the audience, like, so I thought that the last joke was going to be a crescendo. Yeah, crescendo. And then I would say thank you, and then I would leave, and now I'm sort of stuck with you, and you're stuck with me. I'm sort of stuck with you and you're stuck with me.

And I usually find that the honesty with the audience allows for the laughter and sometimes even applause because they're like, oh, we get our role in this. That's very interesting. But you're right. There's so many different things. That's another thing, too, because I keep bringing it back to Mitch, but why people connected with him. Mitch used to be like, I don't, he goes, I basically build a wall. I close my eyes. I look down. Yeah. You know what I mean? And I don't talk

really personally, but people really connected. I'm like, how did he pull that shit off? You know what I mean? And I think it was that element of what you're just saying. It's a monotheisticity and honesty really gets it around, yeah. But I also think Mitch's jokes were, and this is what I don't think he gets credit for, I think his jokes were, A, stories unto themselves. They were just sort of haiku stories, and I think that they were personal.

So, like, in other words, Jen and I will often quote, I wrote a letter to my dad. I was going to write, I really enjoy being here, but I accidentally wrote rarely instead of really. I wanted to use it. I didn't want to cross it out. So I wrote, I rarely drive steamboats, Dad.

There's a lot of shit you don't know about me. Quit trying to act like I'm a steamboat operator. And to me, and Jen, like, that's a joke about being misunderstood and about the feeling of, like, you know, even though he's not telling a story

or saying, I've felt this way in the past, you know from the joke that he's felt that feeling before of, like, stop trying to act like I'm a thing that I'm not, whatever that is. Interesting, yeah. And so sometimes Jen and I will have this thing where I don't understand where she's coming from or she doesn't understand where I'm coming from and we'll go, quit trying

to act like I'm a steamboat operator. I love that. You're right. And one thing about Stephen Wright and Mitch is, I mean, Stephen Wright's a completely, he's creative in his bones. Yeah. But Mitch's things were always based in some reality. Yes. Like that letter did happen. I have the letter where he actually rewrote.

No shit, really? Yeah. He didn't write, I don't know if he wrote a sequel, but that happened. I remember we were in place with it. It all comes from a nugget of some reality. But another thing, yeah, that's really crazy that you brought that one up. One thing I noticed in Mitch's jokes is how he got rid of all the fat, but also could be he would do it and be like, come on, Mitch. He'd even have his own way in it and then view back out. And the way that it can have, like,

got communicated, but you're right. Quit trying to make a fucking show. You know what's another one? You know what's another, like, starts from a place of reality and goes into a place of silly? Is like, I bought a donut, and they gave me a receipt for the donut.

I don't need a receipt for the donut, man. I'll just give you the money, then you give me the donut and the transaction. We don't need to bring ink and paper into this. I just can't imagine a scenario where I'd have to prove that I bought a donut. And it's beautiful

because it's like, you know it happened, right? It's like, you know, you can picture it, it's visual, you can picture this goofy, like, rockstar-looking, sunglass sunglass dude like buying a donut and having this funny thought yes and he doesn't say but you can just imagine like that's the subtext like i feel like so much of like mitch's humor was like what's the subtext of living in this

bizarre world and like breaking it apart yes he. He was always like, silly was huge. Silly's huge. And then I was reading his notebook and we talked about that. To be funny, you have to have some cynicism. You can't be completely earnest and oblivious. There has to be some of that. But Mitch was like, I want to have enough cynicism but positivity at the same time. So that's how it kind of worked out.

Like there's a little bit like this is ridiculous, but also there's some positivity to the same time. So that's how it kind of worked out. Like, there's a little bit like, this is ridiculous, but also there's some positivity to it. Yeah, yeah. That makes a lot of sense. And also, like, there's all this lore, and it's like... Lynn, don't be negative. I'm like, all right, all right. It's all this lore of, like, you know,

because his fans, like, loved him, and, like, you, like, you you like you you like i remember hearing one time like some fans drove like you know seven hours to his show and then he was like oh i feel bad like and then i'm gonna buy you a hotel room like he would like put up fans sometimes i know he didn't that's a lot of another reason why he didn't um like looking at the audience because it's like it's he had too much feeling you know it's like wow like are they okay but remember in the beginning

we were the show and like he becomes so individually he didn't like looking at the audience because it's too much he'd meet people after the show but it was like it was too much for him it's emotional but when you remember in the beginning when you're like you me and Mitch were the show I remember we'd be driving to shows and there'd be lines he's like it was too much for him. It's emotional. But remember in the beginning when you're like, you, me, and Mitch were the show?

I remember we'd be driving to shows and there'd be lines. He's like, we're the show. This is the show. It's embarrassing. It's embarrassing. It's embarrassing. People got babysitters. Oh, my God.

Yeah. It's embarrassing. This is the show. It's embarrassing. I know. Like literally one of the greatest comedians of all time saying this is the show this is embarrassing he'd be like we're this is we're so cheap this is cheap man before yeah oh my gosh but people would meet him and then they'd be like i drove and he'd be like couldn't

handle it so he'd give them gas minute get them hotels and you don't understand i can't take it and he couldn't lie to the audience they'd be like mitch do you want to go out after and we're like um we're 30 something and they're like mitch come out smoke pot and i'd be like just blame it on me just be like your wife's a bitch and go to go home he's like i would never do that we will not sell each other out so he'd be like yeah i'll come out and then but he just wanted to get away because face to face and then our hotel room would ring all night because he'd give the right hotel and stuff. Oh, my God.

Literally, like, I remember, like, sort of a week, maybe two weeks before he passed, we did Caroline's. He did Caroline's. That's right. Yeah. And I was supposed to open, but then I couldn't because I was doing like a construction like union convention in like Queens. It was like a corporate gig that I totally bombed at so hard. How do you handle stuff like that? Oh, it was terrible. And they hated me so much.

I bombed so hard. And then I rushed over just to watch. How do you handle it? I can't. That's why I haven't been able to get one. It's too much for me. No, it was awful. Like, do you just have to go, okay, that happened, move on?

Yeah, you compartmentalize, I think. So then I came to Caroline's to meet up with you guys to hang out and watch. And then I told you the story of me bombing at the Carpenters Union. And Mitch was like, we got to get you on stage. And he just threw me up right before him. And I did five minutes, and it went well. And then he walked on stage, and he goes like, he's like, Birbiglia is not a show business name.

You never see Armageddon starring Birbiglia. I remember at one of the memorial services, I was out with Dave Attell smoking cigarettes at Caroline's, and Dave goes to Mitch's mom, Mary, who's now passed, but he goes, we'll always have the records. Oh. And it was so beautiful. And it was like, you know, Dave, we're all scared.

We're all scared of Dave. He's a genius. Dave is terrifying, but he's one of the most beautiful people. Yeah. He really is. Back to when we were on the tour with Louis Black and Dave Attell, we'd all be in the van, and then Mitch and I would get to our room, and he's like, Lynn, you made Dave laugh twice.

Oh, my God. And he goes, oh, and then Mitch goes, did you notice he laughed when we did that? Like, we loved Dave. No, Dave is a genius in every comedian. Dave is a genius and just, like, one of the sweetest hearts. And another, when we were on tour, Louis Black, he liked the ladies.

So Mitch, through the entire tour, created this false stalker, and Mitch would go into Louis Black's room and write, I love you in pineapple. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. I can't take it. And then later be like, Louis, I saw a girl come out of there. It was funny.

Oh, my gosh. Silliness. Yeah. Which, by the way, you and I went bowling in Dayton when we first met. And then Mitch literally— Okay, Mitch ran this club. And Mike Verbiglia comes up to him and be like, hey, do you guys want to bowl?

Yeah. And we're like, yeah, okay. And then Mike came and he had his own shoes. Now, what would that indicate to someone? That someone knows what they're doing. Yeah. But.

I wasn't good at bowling. And then he made fun of me. He goes, I thought when you invited us to go bowling that you would be good at bowling. And he's like making fun of me. He goes, I thought when you invited us to go bowling that you would be good at bowling. And he's like making fun of me. And then we're at the checkout and there were these like women there.

And then he literally walks. He was always trying to get you going. He walks over to the women and he goes like, you think he's cute? To me, like pointing to me, go to strangers, to strangers. Do you think he's cute? You think he's good looking? Maybe that's his way of trying to flirt through you.

I know, what a shithead. So part of the reason why I dropped you a note about talking about this on the podcast is like, I listen to like Satellite Radio, the comedy channel sometimes. And like, I was driving in the car last summer and a Mitch track. You drive quite a bit, don't you? I do, yeah. I'm a road comic.

I'm a road comic. But like, but I was driving and I heard a Mitch track and it was one of these moments where you hear a bunch of comedy tracks and it's like anything, music, songs, whatever it is. And then a Mitch track came on. So a bunch of other comedians and then Mitch track came on and I had this really visceral, emotional thing. And of course, of course I've, you know, I've, you know, I've been upset, so upset over the years. Of course, when Mitch passed,

and I feel like I think about him every week. Like, he's someone who I think about all the time. But I had just, I heard him. I loved you. I heard him for the first time in a long time as like a comedian. I still have a hard time listening to him. Yeah, totally.

No, and I think I had avoided it a little bit too. Oh, so it got into the, yeah. So I was hearing it on shuffle basically because it's like Sirius XM. Yeah, it pops up, yeah. And I heard him just as a comedian. Yeah. And I was just like, this guy is better than anyone.

Wow. Like it's not even close. It was like watching teenagers do math and science, and then all of a sudden you see a quantum physicist walk in the room and explain a theorem or something, and you're just like, no fucking way. This is literally so much better than the comedy we consume. You know what? I can't control people.

I can't listen to it, but I have every single joke word for word in my brain. Wow. Because I saw him do thousands of shows, like thousands of shows. But yeah, there's something like how he figured out to where to lay the premise and then come it from here and then come it from here and then come around back in 40 words. Well, it's funny because like. It's interesting when you brought up storytelling because you're right. Yeah.

But I think like in that way, it's, you know, and Jen, of course, is a poet and I love poetry. But like, like it really was like poetry in a lot, in a lot of ways. Yeah. The economy of words, painting a picture and telling a story. Yeah. And it's like, but I think like, and you and I have talked about this a lot over the years, is like Mitch was,

and a lot of the listeners of this show are creatives, and it's like a lot of it, it's daydreaming. He was a big daydreamer. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I've tweeted it in his thing. He said the secret to creativity is daydreaming. When he started doing comedy, once he started, he knew he wanted to do it because he knew two things. He goes, I wanted a job where I didn't have to tuck in my shirt all day long and I could travel.

And all of these things were conducive. So when the travel, and it became insane and we should have gone off the road and weren't healthy, he still had the like, even when I was like, we can't do it anymore. He was like, do you know how lucky we are? Look what we get to do. Like even when it was like, we were done. That's a whole other thing. But he was like, and he'd always remind us something like, you're right.

He's like, we get to hang out with each other all the time. And we just bought a house with our creativity. Like that sort of thing. He got it. But really what he loved was daydreaming. And my obsession is thinking, but I don't know how to get it out of my head. So he just, like, letting your thoughts go. You know before when you fall in bed and you start thinking about something

and then it goes to another thing and it branches off. And then if you stop, you don't know what you're thinking about. He would let those branches, but somehow he'd be able to get a word out to catch it somewhere. That's a problem I have. I don't know when ideas are ideas. Or I don't, like I've had people, I'm like, is this, I don't know when ideas are ideas. Like, I don't, it's just continually going on in my head because I can only see really two hours into the future. Like I don't know about a week into the future. So I don't know how to trap things. It's a continuous thing.

But I think that for your type of thinking, and because I think I have a similar thing. It's a human fucking nightmare. It's hard. No, it's super hard. I think the key is like literally one hour timed writing once a day. 30 minutes timed writing once a day. 20 minutes, whatever it is, write it down. And trust that it's actually encapsulating what you were thinking about all those other parts of the day.

Oh, for fuck's sake. Just so that you get some of it. Just some of it. Because I know what you mean. It's like your brain goes a million places. It's a never-ending thing. When I wake up every day, my brain downloads everything since humans evolved. So I'll be like, and I'm not talking about it.

It'll go through every chair that's ever existed, every window, why windows were manufactured, the people who made them, Yeah. Every door on earth. Yeah. Humans, hair. And it's, when you were a kid, I don't know if you did, when we went to camp when I was a kid, we used to play this game in the suitcase I packed. And someone would start, go, I went on vacation,

and in my suitcase I packed a hat. And then the next person would be like, I went on vacation, a hat, and some glasses. That's my brain never ending adding. So I know the, all my, like, the Holocaust, billboards, lipstick, mushrooms, all of that. And then, so in the morning I go, and then I add more. Oh my gosh. Yeah, that's so hard. That's why I can't do anything. Working It Out is sponsored in part by Cuts. Cuts Clothing. They've perfected the art and science of men's shirts

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The only person I could really talk to about it would be him. You know what I mean? Like you fucking died. Do you understand? And it's just a constant thing of fighting the brain because of the mistakes you made. Like, I would have, I think, you know, around the end, we were each other's team, you know? Like, I don't really get it.

I realize now how much he saw it that way, us two. Yeah. And then the world. He wanted me to much he saw it that way. Yeah. Us too. Yeah. And then the world. He wanted me to excel at comedy and then we'd be this thing. And like, that's all we ever need. Yeah. To know each other. And I think, I think I was, I was obviously burnt out.

And I think I was showing him some like disdain a little bit. Like, like that sort of thing. I think that i i would have communicated better um i when we got married i said here's the one thing about me i don't tell people what to do i'm scared of marriage too don't turn me into i'm not a mother i'm not these sort of things yeah but um i don't do that like i'm like this weird living i don't do that. Like, I'm like this weird living. I don't know. I have this weird thing.

I don't know. I don't know. Lesson would be like, you don't realize how young, when you think, even Mitchell and I were like, oh, God, I guess we're over the hill now. Like, you know, you don't realize, like that sort of thing. Right, right. I'm going to watch The Bachelor. Oh, my God, that's hilarious. One of the most brilliant people.

That's so funny. I feel bad about it, but I guess it was a thing. You know what I mean? I don't know. I'm also like, oh, did he have enough sex? I hope so. I hope he flirted enough. I hope he got enough.

I don't know. I'm not very good at articulating. I'm not sure what you mean by lesson. Right, like, you think about, like, when someone passes, and it's like, what could I have done in their time here to help them live their, like, fullest life while they were here? That's, like, one of the biggest pains of all time. Like, yeah, like, I hope, I mean, did he know I loved him?

I mean, Mitch knew who he was. I don't know anymore. But you remember how Stan Hope, when he passed, said, like, Doug Stan Hope said this thing that I thought was so profound, which is, like, it's not a tragedy. Like, Mitch lived like a motherfucker. Like, he lived more in this span of 37 years than like people who lived 100 years. Now you see how young 37 is.

Oh my God, forget about it. And he just had turned 37. It's absurd. It's absurd. I can't even take it. But no, one thing that really hurt me for many times is people would be like, what a waste. About Mitch. And I'm like, what a waste?

You get to have him. Or like when people are like, we lost something. No, you didn't. Look what you got. Look what you got. This person. Yeah. That's how I feel about like Robin Williams.

I feel that way about where you just go like he was. Oh, when people are like, no, are you kidding? It's like it's a tragedy. It's like, yeah, but also look what he gave us. He gave us all this amazing stuff. And look what he gave himself and did. Like trust me. Yes, yes, yes, yeah, but also, look what he gave us. He gave us all this amazing stuff. And look what he gave himself and did. Like, trust me. Yes, yes, yes, yeah.

But like. Yeah, yeah. But like, yeah, so there was that. It's just hard. I just remember when Mitch Stein going, oh, I'm going to get a lobotomy. That's it. Like, when people are like, you're going to be all right. He loves you.

I'm like, I'm going to need a lobotomy. And I would have had one where I could have removed the piece of my brain that knew about Mitch. It was like, that's what I'm going to need. I'm not, it's not going to, this isn't going to work. I'm not going to be able to deal with it. And then your brain, you do things and your brain, I think your brain releases things that make you be able to cope. But I was like, literally, where's the yield, the bottom of your shot? Like, I was like, I'm going to, I would have done one at that point, just to cut out ever remembering, yeah. But it's interesting because it's like, you're sort of like,

you've self-tasked, and I think really well, with like carrying on Mitch's legacy. And it's like, I must be so hard to do that. I'm the worst at it. You're not the worst at it. You're great at it. I've only put out a few things. I've tried to do a million things.

I don't keep control of any of Mitch's stuff. Mitch is still only relevant because of organically people telling him. My friend's like, you're running kind of a mini Coca-Cola, but you don't know how to do it. Like, I don't know how to, like, I don't get everything. Yeah, right. There's no Mitch Inc. There's no machine behind it except his jokes.

But I am working. I've been digitizing stuff, and I am working on stuff. I have to go soon, but I don't know how to wrap. Oh, one last thing. Yeah, yeah, of course. Mitch didn't have stage fright. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. That's a very. Mitch didn't have stage fright. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah.

That's a very big myth. I've seen people write essays about it. Yeah. Did you see him as stage fright? No. He was extremely self-aware, but no, he didn't have stage fright. He said in the beginning when he was doing open mics, if the building had burned before he'd gone on, he'd be like, yes.

But after a while, he didn't have a stage fright. You don't do that. Yeah. But you know what's funny? You know what was funny at the time? And this rolled off of him. He was like so laid back about it. There were so many Mitch-esque comedians who followed him.

Myself included, by the way. Like if you, for my first album. For my first album, like there's some Mitch Hedberg-y sounding things. Yeah, that's how it goes. Like, Demetri Martin has some Mitch Hedberg-y sounding things. Aziz Ansari has some Mitch Hedberg-y sounding things. Yes, Aziz, his first, yeah. Yeah, and it's like, and I remember talking to Mitch about it

and him just being like, I watched, he's like, I watched your friend, whoever it was, he's like, it watched your friend, whoever it was. He's like, it's not that similar. You know what I mean? Like he was so laid back about things that were like. I think he had that one confident thing that people can't really steal jokes from him. Interesting. You know? Interesting.

He kind of made his jokes unsort of stealable. Yeah. People may have, but everyone would have known. Yeah. No, that's true. I remember he said about Dimitri, oh man, they're going to like a more freshly scrubbed version of me about Dimitri.

Oh my gosh. And of course, Dimitri's jokes are great too, but like- Oh, Dimitri, of course. I know what he means. I know it. Yeah, I know what he means. Like, oh man. That's absurd that he would have thought that.

That's ridiculous. Well, the only other time, one time, Zach Galifianakis got that BH1 show. Yes. And Mitch and I were— It was called Late World with Zach. Yeah. It was like a late show. Exactly.

And so they were kind of the same coming up. And Mitch knew who's funny, you know what I mean? Yeah. Mitch and I were always on the road. And I remember we were driving and there was a billboard. And it was for Zach's show. And he's like, oh, Galifianakis got a billboard. Like that sort of.

And then he never ever. One time, another thing is he never. He wasn't jealous. We were around each other. He goes, do you like Zach because he can grow a beard? Oh, because he couldn't grow a beard oh my gosh i know that is so funny the um so what i i'm just curious like what do you like what are your do you want to talk about like what your goals are right now in terms of like, I know you're working on a film. I don't want to curse at all because in 2018.

You don't want to give it away. You don't want to give it away. Okay. So in 2000, my dad died. I put out the box set in 2016. My dad died. Yeah. After having years of Alzheimer's and dementia.

I was flying up to Vancouver every four to eight weeks. It was crazy. It was one of the most interesting, crazy things. But anyway, so my dad died, and then I started slowly archiving. Like I had 150 VHS tapes, and I got them digitized with this production company called Arts and Sciences that John Doerr, my boyfriend at the time, introduced me to. So we were archiving and figuring things out. I have had 16-millimeter film in a film storage place for years.

So digitizing. And then so that slowly was dribbling on like 17, 18. And then in January 2019, I was leaving work, and I fell over an open truck's rear gate. Oh, my gosh. And I smashed all my open truck's rear gate. Oh, my gosh. And I smashed all my teeth out. Oh, my gosh. And so that kind of threw a thing in the loop.

And then the pandemic. But I have lots of things that are digitized. But now I'm also talking to Animal Films, which is this woman named Danielle Renfrew, Natasha Leone, and Maya Rudolph. And we're working with arts and sciences. so we're now putting together a team. Oh, that's fantastic. Because now that things are digitized and the notebooks are endless, Mike, I'll make sure I get you something. Oh, please.

I'll make sure I get you a piece. And in the meantime, I'd like to do a book and help kids. Help kids, okay. I don't know. And the final thing is working it out for a cause, which is if you know of a nonprofit that you think is doing a great job right now, and I'll contribute to them and link to them in the show notes. Well, it's called Widow Hedberg. Let's see.

Oh my God. That's a joke. Or I just want to make sure. It's called the Bail Project. Okay. And it is, if people go and check this out, it really interesting it's um it's donations make up bail money so people in prison who are in prison and innocent and they could get bail can't can get out you know what I mean and live their lives and be with their families and then you know then when they go back to court the money goes back so it's like this it's it's like it's it's amazing that's great and yeah well I'm gonna contribute to them I'm gonna back to court, the money goes back. So it's like this, it's amazing.

That's great. Yeah. Well, I'm going to contribute to them. I'm going to link to them in the show notes. But Lynn, I think you're wonderful. I think you're one of the funniest people I've ever encountered in my life. And I feel like Mitch was one of the funniest people I've encountered in my life. I feel so lucky. He loved you.

Like, he loved you. He's like, yeah. He knew you had that. He knew you were obsessed. He knew everything was like drinking it in. And that time, yeah, it was affecting you. That was your obsession. Remember the anxiety and wanting to do it and doing it all?

That's the obsession. The obsession continues because, you know, let me know whenever you're releasing stuff. I will for sure. And I just want the whole world, especially the younger generation, to really dig into Mitch's stuff because it's like there's so much. All right. All righty.

Thanks for talking. I love you. I love you so much. Please give my love to Jen. Yeah. All right. All righty. Thanks for talking. I love you. I love you. I love you so much. Please give my love to Jen. Yes, I will. I miss her so much, yeah. I will.

All right, I hope to see you soon. Thanks for doing this. And listen, if you have to scrap this, don't worry. I'm not scrapping anything. No way. Working it out, because it's not done. We're working it out, because there's no hope. That's going to do it for another episode of Working It Out.

How about Lynn Shawcroft? She is, I just enjoy talking to her so much. And she's so, so funny, so quick, and wise in so many ways. You can follow her on Twitter at at Shawcroft, or you could follow her on Instagram at Lynn Shawcroft. Yes. There's tons of stuff about Mitch.

You can try to pick up his vinyl box set, which I have and is amazing. If you haven't listened to Mitch Hedberg albums, do so. If you haven't listened to Mitch Hedberg albums in a while, do so again. They're so good. This is from someone who's a super fan, and I'm re-listening to them and getting even more out of them. Our producers of Working It Out are myself, along with Peter Salamone and Joseph Birbiglia.

Consulting producer, Seth Barish. Sound mix by Kate Balinski. Associate producer, Mabel Lewis. Thanks to my consigliere, Mike Berkowitz, as well as Marissa Hurwitz and Josh Upfall. Special thanks to Jack Asenoff and Bleachers for their music. They are on tour everywhere right now. As always, a very special thanks to my wife, the poet, J. Hope Stein.

Our book is called The New One. It is a semifinalist for the Thurber Prize for American Humor in Columbus, Ohio, which is a place that I love to visit. And it's at your local bookstore. As always, a special thanks to my daughter, Una, who created a radio fort made of pillows. Thanks most of all to you who have listened. Tell your friends.

Maybe even tell your darn enemies. And by the way, we've got a T-shirt coming soon, so look out for that. Sign up for the mailing list. In the meantime, we'll be right here. We'll be working it out.