Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 7. Sarah Cooper: America’s Funniest Lip-Syncer-In-Chief— In Her Own Words

Episode Date: July 13, 2020

Mike gets to know comedian/writer Sarah Cooper, whose Trump lip sync videos are a viral phenomenon beloved by millions. They crack open the pain of being rejected in middle school, the joy of huffing Irish spring soap, and why Sarah and Mike are both New York forever. Please consider contributing to myFace: https://www.myface.org/

This week, our guest is Sarah Cooper. She is a comedian, she's a comedy writer, but most notably, America's premier Donald Trump lip-sync artist. Who knew that would be a thing? Her videos, you must have seen them by now. They're a phenomenon on TikTok, Instagram, Twitter. Millions, if not hundreds of millions of viewers.

I'm a huge fan. My brother Joe goes, you should ask her if she'd come on the podcast. I go, well, lip syncing is challenging on the audio podcast. But then I was reading about her and I saw she is wildly talented in many, many

different ways. So I asked her to come on and we ended up having a great chat. So here it is. Sarah Cooper. I think that the videos, part of the reason they're so enjoyable is that it's cathartic to have the audio that I won't listen to. But when you lip sync, I somehow am okay with the experience. That's some kind of weird psychological thing. Because it's the same audio i

haven't changed it at all and yet just hearing it or seeing his face and hearing it is awful and yet so enjoyable like to see my face and hear the audio i don't it's it's so weird to me it's really weird my brother joe is pointing this out yesterday because he's a big fan of the videos too and he was like he was like can you ask sarah like are there any trump supporters who love the videos because they sort of they because they're so fun that they're like that's my guy yeah it's funny when you there are there absolutely are which. Which is I've, I've, you know, I'm mulling this over in my head, like, am I being too subtle with how I'm making fun of him? Because I feel like it should be so obvious that I am pointing out how ridiculous he sounds. And yet Trump supporters are like, Oh, my God, I love Trump. But this is great. You know, it's just like, what the hell are you talking about? You know, they really are seeing a different movie. And it's just like, what the hell are you talking about? You know, they really are seeing a different movie. And I like to think about it like it's a Pixar film or any children's movie, really, where there's a joke for the adults and there's a joke for the kids.

And it's like on some level, you can get the satire and it's a little bit more complicated. But then on another more simpler level, you can just be like, ha, you just fell on a banana peel. It's so funny. You know what I mean? Of course, the subtext of what you're saying is that the Trump supporters are the kids well i didn't say that you said it you said it so i did no no sarah i didn't even say it i didn't say it no one said i implied it but i did not say it no one said anything like that i feel like satire in the age of trump for me has been dead because whenever people ask me in interviews about what what do you think of isn't trump great for comedy and i'm always like no he's terrible he's terrible he's terrible you know because because he's he challenges

truth in the existence of truth and if and truth is usually the setup for a joke. And if there's no truth, there can be no setups. And so if there's no setups, there can be no punchlines. And that's sort of my take on political comedy in this era. But somehow you have defied that. Yeah. It's kind of like with observational humor, like you're pointing out things that

everybody sees, but nobody says you're just, you know, bringing things to light. Um, and, um, I think for the first three and a half years of this, everyone was trying to add to Trump, you know, they were trying to like, how can I get as, you know, how can I take what he does and like add something to make it even crazier or whatever. And then I just went in the other direction. I just went, I took everything away, you know? And I,

and I think that's why it kind of is different and, and new is because I really wasn't, I'm not wearing a tie. I don't have a, I'm not people. I'm not painting my face orange. I'm not doing any of that stuff. Yeah.

That's what it is. And I think like, it's of the same DNA as when Tina Fey did Sarah Palin right exactly and he she was using her exact words and so even even if like you like Sarah Palin you're still going like it's pretty funny that she's saying her exact words right and it's sad too and I do get that that it's it's you you know, because I do feel a sense of like, wait a second, I'm a writer and I'm not writing anything. You know, like I feel like he's almost taken away. Like it's great. Trump is great for comedy. No, like he's awful because he's taken away my what I was supposed to be doing.

You know, the thing that worked for me was not writing because he is the punchline. He's already done it. I don't have to do anything else. And so it is sad because he's not supposed to be the punchline. He's supposed to be the president. Yeah, I think that's right. And I think it's like he is writer's block, basically. He is the actualization of writer's block

because what are you going to say? What commentary could you possibly have that would be more extreme than what he says? It's so insane. So, yeah, he's basically challenged us all to just shut up. And, you know, that's kind of what I did. I shut up. I just let him do all the talking.

So is this like something you trained for? Like, do you have like an acting background or like a clowning background? I, you know, I wanted to be an actress when I was little. And I always got called out for overacting. But for some reason it works in this format because it's kind of like a silent film. I have to emote as much as possible and punctuate

things with my face, and so it kind of works. And you've been doing stand-up for a while. Yeah. Yeah, I've been doing stand-up for about 10 years. Well, I started 10 years ago, and then I quit, and then I went back, and then I quit again. But I was really focused on it when lockdown happened.

Yes. Yes. I just got my first JFL audition and things were looking up until they weren't at all. But in some ways, the world is your oyster career-wise right now because

that's so true because everyone sort of knows who you are yeah and they know you're talented so so those are two good things right those are two you are usually you you get maybe one of those if you're lucky i know but it's so funny like the stand-up mentality of just like if it's not hard it's not worth it you know it's got to be brutal you know I gotta like pour my heart out on stage for an hour or five minutes four and a half minutes is what I would usually get after waiting for an hour to get up on stage and so like yeah it's crazy how I was slogging it out and then I made a video and millions of people saw it and and the exposure has been nothing compared to anything I've ever gotten with stand-up and do you think after this

you'll tour as a stand-up um I do want to yeah I would like to um and you know I have a lot more I have a lot more opportunity now to do that because it's weird. It's like people, I think people in the industry I'm learning in sort of the Hollywood world is like they don't really like you until other people like you. Oh my God, that's hilarious. Of course. Does it make sense? I mean, you're basically defining all of show business. So like they're like, oh, people like you. Okay, you know what?

I like you too then. That is so true and it's pretty much the reason why i never moved to los angeles is because that mentality is it's there in new york and entertainment for sure but in in los angeles it's like amplified to a hundred you know times that and and to to the point where you go to a general meeting and they're like, we love you. And you're literally like, we love everything about you. And then you never hear from them again. And I was like, I can't stay here. I'm never going to move to a place

that messes with my head that much. Yeah, I'm New York forever. move to a place that messes with my head that much. Yeah, I'm New York forever. So this is called the slow round. And it's basically just like a series of prompts that that are meant to stoke your mind. And the first one I always ask is, do you remember a smell from childhood? Yes, soap. yes soap soap i love i love love love the smell of soap and i have all my life like now it's palm olive but when i was little it was irish spring and oh really did you did you try to eat it i tried to eat it that's her i i have to say during the quarantine quarantine, I have returned to Irish Spring soap. Really?

After years, after 20 years. Where were you, Duff? Where were you? I know. I was just sort of in a body wash universe. Oh, God. Are you judging me? I'm very much judging you.

Body wash universe. Are you still Irish Spring? I'm still Irish Spring. It's the best smell in the whole world next to original scent palm olive although i do also enjoy tide like i just love any cleaning products like i will huff them um probably bad for my brain but my god it smells so good i I literally was, I was huffing so much in, not huffing, but I was really, really deeply inhaling our dishwashing soap in high school, so much so that I called the number on the back of the bottle to ask if it was okay. Oh my gosh. Where did you grow up? Where'd you grow up?

I grew up in Rockville, Maryland. Oh, that's a good spot it is a good spot my high school was next to a cornfield and no kidding yeah it was yep lost my virginity in a cornfield oh my gosh that must be an answer to another slow round question but it's not it's not on here um where did you did you did you lose your virginity in a cornfield yes yes actually no no it wasn't that wasn't the first time but it was one of the first times did you lose your virginity in a cornfield? yes! actually no no no that wasn't the first time but it was one of the first times do you have a memory

from your life, your childhood that's sort of on a loop but it doesn't fit into stand up it doesn't fit into telling a story it's just sort of in there yeah I was dumped in the fourth grade uh by uh tony dang it was a very public dumping and um oh gosh i i see it in my head all the time um tony dang was my first uh the first guy that i was going with we'd call it going with back then i don't know yeah yeah so we were we

were going together for like a week and, uh, the one day, like five days into our relationship, um, uh, everybody on the blacktop was making fun of me because like I developed boobs pretty early. And so everybody was like calling me a slut and a whore and all this stuff. And Tony was just like standing there, like not saying anything. And I was like really hurt by that. So I did what, you know, any fourth grader would do. I wrote him a note and I was like, listen, you know, like if you're going to be my boyfriend, you're going to have to like stand up for me, you know, like I want you to, like, you know, you should have said something. You shouldn't have just laughed. And so we had two classes and we would switch between math and English and like we'd form a

line and we would pass each other in the hallway. And so we passed each other in the hallway, I handed him this note. And then I sat through the next period, wondering, like, what is he going to say? How's he going to respond? That period ended, and we all lined up again, we all passed each other in the hallway again. I saw Tony coming toward me. He didn't have a note in his hand. So I was just like, what's going on with that? Because I figured he would write me a note back. But like five feet in front of me in front of the entire class and all of the teachers, he just goes, Hey, Sarah, consider yourself dumped. Oh, my gosh. And I was mortified. I was mortified. It was the most horrible experience of my young life i feel like that's straight out of like the movie bring it on or something it's so weird because i've looked up this phrase consider

yourself dumped and it doesn't i don't even know where he got that from like i don't like how did a fourth grader even know how to say that like that actually stokes a memory in my brain which is is like I think it was about fourth grade we went on a field trip and my mom was a chaperone which is it makes the field trip very different you know and we went to like some kind of zoo uh location and on in the back of the bus I kissed melissa smith uh-huh it was that thing where you kiss but you hold your hand in front of your mouth and then that person holds their hand in front of jesus do you remember that yes okay so we were doing that, right? And then Melissa Smith and I both decided like, oh, we're okay without the hand. We'll take off the safety.

Ooh. And we did, and it wasn't a kiss where our mouths actually did anything, but they, you know, they touched, they, whatever. This is so graphic for something that's like two children. Like it's a lot of details. No, I know.

Go ahead. We tapped mouths. I mean, we tapped, you know. And then we're at lunch at the zoo. And I'm with my mom eating lunch. She's a chaperone. And someone comes up and she says, Mrs berbiglia mike and melissa and then they did a simulation of two fists rubbing together uh simulating that we had kissed and i was so

embarrassed but then you know i think i'm a dad now and it's like you know of course it shouldn't be embarrassing at all it's just like a natural thing that occurs. But as a kid, you're mortified. So embarrassing. You can't even believe it. Yeah. I mean, just having a crush on someone and then having that person find out is like the most terrifying thing in the whole world. was there a group growing up that that wouldn't let you in that you were like so mad that they wouldn't let you in yeah i mean i think i had it's not that i wasn't mad that they wouldn't let you in. Yeah. I mean, I think I had, it's not that I wasn't mad that they wouldn't let me in. It's just that they sort of bullied me. Um, which was like, I was just in

a weird spot because like my family's Jamaican and I, you know, we come here and we're, we're seen as African-American, but at the same time, that's not really our history. So, so, um, so, you know, there was just, uh, I was just never allowed into the group of black girls. I just was never allowed in that group. And I, it was because a lot of times, because like all the, all the black guys liked me a lot, but the black girls were just, and I wouldn't say like all the black girls, but there was like a group of popular black girls who just were not happy with me. And so anytime I would like pass by their table at lunch, they would just like yell things out at me. And I would like stay up at night, like wondering,

like, how am I going to avoid them tomorrow? You know, did you like them? I just didn't know them. I just I think I was just scared. I think I was just like, why don't they like me? And like, I just wanted to avoid them because I just I don't like confrontation at all. And so, you know, I just wanted my days to be as smooth as possible. And so it was just like, how do I avoid, how do I avoid this? many basically like all the way until comedy uh where everyone sort of uh didn't really want me to join the group but like but but in hindsight i'm always like i don't even know if i really wanted to be in the group i just didn't want to be pre-rejected from the group yeah mean, it's, yeah, I think that like with age, you can have that, that perspective of like, I don't, you know, cause even with guys, I'd be like, why don't you like me? It's not a guy that I like, but I want him to like me. You know what I mean? It somehow goes to like the core of your identity of feeling like, how come I'm so misunderstood by this person? Like, how come I'm so misunderstood by this person? Yeah.

Yeah. I don't know. Maybe it's also like similar mentality to like, I'll get like 10 comments on a video and there's one negative one and I'll just focus on the negative. Of course. The person is like an idiot, obviously. And has like 15 numbers next to their Twitter handle. I would do this on stage two where it's like most people are smiling or neutral,, but there's that one person who doesn't look like they're having a good time. And it's like, that's the person that I remember.

Me too. Same. Yeah. Same. I mean, I don't know when that goes away. I mean, on the Mulaney episode, we were talking about the same thing. It's like, did you watch the Michael Jordan documentary so like he always goes like I took it personally you know like he always has this thing

of like taking everything personally and and John Mulaney and I were both saying how much we related to that as stand-up comedians like it's hard when an audience doesn't like you you're putting forward the thing you think is funny about you and they're going nah not into it it's fascinating to me to hear either of you say that um i you know i meant to tell you this but like you were one of the last people i saw on stage before the lockdown oh my gosh you went on on stage after tracy mor. Oh my gosh. I remember that very well. You do? Of course I do because Tracy was, I mean, Tracy's wild. He is. When he goes on stage at the Comedy Cellar, he'll pop in sometimes. And I think that people don't realize how different the Tracy Morgan they know from 30 Rock is from the stand-up comedy version of Tracy,

which is great, but it's different. And so you witness the audiences, their faces. Some of them are going nuts, and then some of them are like, whoa. He's very raw. I mean, he's very much in the vein of like clearly like he loved richard pryor and like he's very much you know he's very much he goes he goes it's it's i mean i don't want to say the word dirty but it's like the topics are as raw as one could imagine the topics yeah exactly and exactly. And he relishes it.

He loves it. He loves making the audience feel uncomfortable. And I fucking wish I had that. You know, like I'm always like, he just seems like so, I don't know, doesn't give a fuck. And I just, I'm always like, oh God, do you like me?

Do you like me? And so like, but anyway, I wanted to say like, he cracked me up and then you cracked me up too. And you guys are so different. And so like stuff like that inspires me because it's like there isn't a one way to make an audience laugh.

I remember the thing I walked on and said. Yes. Oh, he stole your material. Yeah. Yeah. I walked on and I said, oh, Tracy did all my jokes. I love that line. I actually wrote it down because I was like, I'm going to use that.

No, because he goes, I mean, he's talking about like eating ass and and like a lot of like very graphic sexual things and i don't i don't talk a lot about stuff like that and and uh and and i talk about kissing on field trips with your hand in front of your mouth but uh but yeah i said he took my material and that that sort of diffused any sort of tension that's in the room of like wait how is mike berbiglia gonna follow tracy morgan i mean you are such a professional thanks well you know i followed over the years chris rock jerry seinfeld all these yeah pal i followed sort of the best of them and so i've developed a defense mechanism which is i always say something along the lines of like,

I remember one time I followed Chris Rock and the crowd was just going totally nuts. And then I walked on and I said, I bet when you left your house tonight, you did not think that you were going to see Mike Birbiglia. What is the oddest thing you've ever witnessed that you weren't a part of, but you just sort of saw it? The only thing I can think of is this morning, I was walking my dog, and this guy got out of his truck and was walking ahead of me. And just, like, the cologne cologne was like wafting back. He was like 20 feet ahead of me and I could smell it 20 feet away.

And it's just like, how do people put on so much cologne that like someone 20 feet away can smell it? Like, I just don't understand that. Yeah, I've never I never got on the cologne train. I really didn't. My dad used to wear it. And then in high school, I experimented with Dracar Noir like teenagers do. Did you ever wear Cool Water? No, I've never worn that one.

I've never been into perfume, jewelry. I don't know. Same. I'm not into jewelry. Anything that makes me unique or interesting i just stay away from no i'm the same i'm no i'm no cologne jewelry or tattoos even i don't have any tattoos either oh my god one of my new jokes that that literally you probably have this sometimes you write a joke but it like it has no home anywhere in your act yeah i go my body is a temple like a fat temple that

smokes um and uh no i i think i do have some sense of my body as a temple i like a fat temple that smokes. No, I think I do have some sense of my body as a temple. I mean, I think that's where that joke comes from. I've never, no, I've never thought about getting a tattoo. There's something about it where I don't know if it was, I was from a conservative Catholic upbringing or whatever, but I just, it doesn't seem like something I want to do. Because I, you know what it is it feels like an obvious thing that when i age is not going to age well exactly and not not not just not aging

well on your skin but just like emotionally i can't think of anything that i could connect to now that i know for a fact i'm going to connect to when i'm 80. I think it's also, it's just like a commitment thing. Cause I, I even have trouble like putting up artwork and posters and stuff. I don't know if you have that, but like I, my first job, like, you know, people are like, why don't you bring in a picture of your family or a picture of somebody or a plant or, and I never brought in anything. So you don't like just decorating either yourself or your surroundings.

Is your bedroom like that? Um, we have like a few pieces up, but most of it is stuff that my husband picked out. And I think it's just, I very rarely see something, art or anything, that I'm just like, yes, that's me. That represents everything that I want to see every day. You know, I just,

I very rarely come across anything like that. I think I'm the same way. I have very few pieces of art or anything in my bedroom for exactly, you know, and I'm so glad you brought this up because I have never pinpointed it until now. There's no single thing that I identify with and think, that is who I am. Right. You know, like I have this story in my book where I talk about how I give this piece of advice, which is don't show your wife or husband a movie that you haven't seen since childhood and don't remember all that well and preface it by saying, this is who I am. I showed my wife the movie Top Gun and I had forgotten that it is a homoerotic fighter jet film. And there's the beach volleyball scene and they're all oiled up and shirtless for each other

and my wife looks at me and she goes, is this the movie that's who you are? But it really is like that's such a thing is like some people go, you know, that comedian, that band, that movie is who I am. And some people don't. And I think I'm in the don't category. Yeah. And it's, it's, it's the same thing when someone's like,

who's your favorite comedian? I'm like, I don't know. Like I, yeah, there's so many, I, I can't even, I can't even name a single one who's like my favorite and all my family. Like I like different things about so many different people. So. i think one of the things that's like odd about this moment in comedy is is that like i'm reluctant to say i like a comedian because i know that that comedian has said something in his or her career that is probably regrettable or hasn't aged well and so i don't want the person to be like oh mike rapiglia likes this comedian and look what he said you know it's like it's like it's a fascinating fear mike isn't that weird but that's so weird but that's the that's the

that's twitter universe i mean that's that's i have a louis ck joke in my in my set that i i i love that i'll i'll always do it can Can you say it here? Yeah. So my husband and I met at work. And he started working there a few years after I was working there. And he for him, it was like love at first sight. And for me, I was like, who is this weirdo? But he kept asking me out. And I kept saying no, mainly because I had just finished dating the guy who sits next to him. And I just didn't want to be the girl who dated the entire software engineering team. So I kept saying no. I kept saying no.

But he knew I liked comedy. And then he was like, hey, I have tickets to see Louis C.K. And that was my favorite comedian at the time. And I was like, I had to say yes, because you can't say no to Louis C.K. And that was my favorite comedian at the time. And I was like, I had to say yes, because like, you can't say no to Louis C.K. Oh, my God. That's kind of his brand, right? Oh, my God. That's phenomenal.

I love that joke, because it's a workplace sexual harassment joke wrapped in a workplace sexual harassment joke. So I wrote this bit about Instagram, which is I joined Instagram, but I didn't know who to follow. You know, like, it was like this thing where I was late to the Instagram party. And I was like, I don't know who to follow. And my friends follow like hundreds of like models. Oh, God, literally like models. And I'm like, I'm not gonna do that. It's like, not that my wife wouldn't let me, but I feel like if she happened to glance at my at my phone like yeah it would just be this uncomfortable conversation and so i follow the rock oh okay that's smart and i'm i've never seen a movie with the rock i don't know anything about the rock i just thought this is a good safe choice you know what

the weirdest thing about about that whole thing is that like you know for a while i was i was following uh trevor noah who i love sure um and then i started following like some models like um not uh kylie jenner not kylie jenner who's her sister i don't kim kardashian there's uh Some models like Kylie Jenner. Not Kylie Jenner. Who's her sister? I don't know. Kim Kardashian. I don't know anything about the Kardashians.

It's Kylie and Kirsten. Anyway, it starts with a K. The clickbait for this episode is, of course, that Sarah Cooper does not know the names of any of the kardashians i've never been prouder of anything in my life like honestly the fact that i don't know that i'm so happy that should be the name of your series sarah cooper is not keeping up exactly um anyway so so i was following her and following like this other model and then instagram is like trevor noah likes this like it would let me know all the things that trevor noah is liking and trevor noah is liking all of these like like thirst trap pictures and i'm just like i don't want to know that like i just don't want to know that you know

oh the internet knows way too much it knows and i don't think he knows that everyone can see that he's liking these things and like i don't i don't know it's just i don't know yeah the models thing i just can't get on board for so. So I follow the rock. And then the rest of the joke is that, um, the only real observation I have from following the rock is a great shape. You know, the guy he's doing the work, but, but, but second of all, um, I want to make an observation that, that, that his name is Dwayne. And that is not even close to The Rock. Like I could see if his nickname was like Dewey or D-Dog, D-Money.

I don't know. But at some point in his life, he had to say to his friends with a straight face, Hey, guys, from now on i'm uh i'm the rock and they're like okay rock and he's like no no actually the article the is is crucial it's yeah it's the rock it's like if an executive came up to me like a tv executive came up to me and was like, your name's Mike, but from now on, we're just going to call you Sleepy Pants. And I'm like, I'm not comfortable with that.

They're like, the boys in corporate really love Sleepy Pants, and they're set on it. And I'm like, I'm not comfortable with that. And they're like, look, Sleepy Pants. And I'm like, I didn't say you could call me that. And that's really the- Would you be the Sleepy Pants, though?

Yeah, it would be the Sleepy P pants would be the proper way to say it. Uh, but I really do think there is a boldness to asking people to call you the rock. It's a boldness. Exactly. Like a boulder, right? It's like a boulder.

Oh, that took me a moment. I love that though. I love that. Yeah. That is a boldness or a boulder that took me a moment I love that though I love that that is a boldness or a boulder if you will a boulder the boulder the boulder that's another actor

the boulder oh yeah he didn't make it as far as the rock that is so sad you can only roll him so far. Dude, what if there was an actor named The Boulder? And he's just inspired by The Rock. And he just thought, well, this is the way to make it. And he just never did.

And then I wrote down this, which is that I, so on Instagram, I posted an announcement that I was doing this thing called Stand Up and Vote. This is, of course, before the quarantine. I was going to tour colleges and encourage people to vote and register voters and put on a free stand-up comedy show. And so I posted about it on Instagram, the announcement. And mostly people are positive.

They're like, this is great. This is really positive. And mostly people are positive. They're like, this is great. This is really positive. But then some people in the comments were like, MAGA! And I'm like, sure, MAGA. You know, good luck with that.

You do you. But then I started thinking about the phrase MAGA. And I was like, it doesn't really roll off the tongue. You know what I mean? Like, MAGA! Like, it means like, MAGA mega america first and i'm like right but it sounds french like like je voudrais expliquer le maga c'est un mouvement du populisme you know what it sounds foreign it sounds real foreign like that's it that's it it does sound foreign and uh and and so i'm just like i'm just like get a new slogan boys this one's french and i and i do mean boys not a lot of women out there

doing the maga whenever you see maga women they have this vibe like he will kill me if i disobey isn't that so true? Oh, my God. And by the way, there's a really, like, if you look at the stats, very low statistics of MAGA women. Oh, yeah. Why is that? Why is that, Mike? I don't know. Tell me why you think that is.

I mean. It's because women are smarter than men. Oh, that could be. That could be? could be oh my god no I mean I was gonna say because the president is sexist and racist and that's why black people don't like him and that's why women don't like him but also maybe women are smarter than men too but also I think there is some there's some men and a lot of the mega men um and even some people that don't support him, some men that don't support him are like, God, I wish I could I wish I could get away with what he gets away with. You know, I think there's some of them are like envious, even if they don't like him and they won't vote for him. They're still like, you know what? I kind of I kind of wish I could do that.

go about Trump far before his presidency, which is that Trump is what poor people imagine a rich person would be. Right. Exactly. And it's like, someday I'll have gold hair and buildings with my name on them. And I think that that's a lot of it. It's so funny because I remember when I was a kid and I wanted to be rich. Do you remember the things you would imagine getting? Because I thought that I would just be dressed in a ball gown all the time.

Sure. And I thought that I would have a house where I could have a room with a lake running through it. And I have animals. I would just have all of these things. running through it you know like yeah like a pot and i get i have animals i would just have all of these things and it's like that's kind of their perception of like he has gold everywhere and it's just like gaudy and ridiculous but like he's a i don't know it's so funny i don't i never imagine myself being rich i actually imagine myself um living in my parents' house when they die. Really? One of the chapter titles in my book is,

Can I Have This House When You Die? Because when I was probably in fifth grade or so, I asked my parents, can I have this house when you die? And everyone thought it was so funny because it's like, when you die? Like a kid telling his parents, like, hey, so when you die you're dead can i have the house but yeah i did i i just wanted to live in their house like i just to me it just seemed really logical that that's where you want to be is where you are essentially yeah i don't i don't

know and then i and then i think in high school in high had the pivot of like, well, I want to be a comedian. And then it's like, well, where are the comedians? And they're in New York. And so I was like, okay, I want to go to New York. It wasn't like I wanted to be in New York since I was a kid. I didn't really know what New York was. Yeah, me either. I never wanted to go to New York.

I remember visiting my aunt in New York once once and it just seemed like so not fun. It seemed so overwhelming of a place. Yes, I think that's right. That's how I felt. Yeah, it's I never wanted to move here. And then I always like I would watch Seinfeld and like people would run into each other on the street. Like and I'd be like, that's so unrealistic. New York is gigantic.

People don't just see each other and like run into people randomly. And then you move here and you're like, that does happen all the time, actually. Yeah, because it's not that many square miles. It's not that big. And you just you hang out the same places over and over again. And, you know, you get to know people. I find myself I find that New York is so small physically that I will I will sometimes cross the street if I spot someone who I know. I'll have to have a 10-minute conversation with.

I have done that. I've done the thing where I'm leaving a class with someone, and they get on the subway, and I say goodbye, and then I realize that was my subway too, but I don't want to run into them again, so I have to go to the next subway. That's the worst feeling it is yeah i've never confessed that anywhere by the way and i i'm gonna keep that in i promise i'm gonna keep that in i'm gonna try to write about that actually that idea of like that that it's almost like i was trying to write about this the other day of like when i was a kid i remember the smell of my parents air conditioning in their bedroom

in the summer because they were the only people who had air conditioning in the house and there's their bedroom was the only room that had air conditioning and so my brother and i would knock on their door at like one or two in the morning if it was super hot and with blankets and pillows and we would and we could let us in and then we'd lie on the floor. And I remember the smell of carpet and I remember the smell of air conditioning. And it was a very fond memory. And I remember feeling very happy. And when I think about it, I think it's like,

I love, I think the reason it made me happy is I think as a kid, I just wanted to be around my parents, but for them not to talk to me. And I think that's what they wanted from me, too. I think that's all any of us want in some ways, is to just be around the people we love, but no one talks. Wow, that's kind of deep. What else do you have in your notebook right now? So we have a puppy. She's eight months old.

She's a cockapoo named Stella. And she is like the light of my husband's world. It's crazy. He loves her so much. And I just noticed that he taught, I think he talks to her the way he wishes I would talk to him. talks to her the way he wishes I would talk to him. Because yesterday he was like, he has, you know, has her face in his hands and just looking at her and he's going, you're perfect. You're perfect just the way you are. No one is asking you to change. No one wants you to change. There's not a single thing about you that has to change. You are, you are exactly,

exactly as the, like, you're supposed to be like all of this stuff. And I'm like, is he trying to tell me something? Oh my God. Oh my gosh. And it's just fascinating to me because in my, in my head, um, I think I'm saying in my head, I'm passive aggressively saying to him what I want to say to him, which is leave her alone. Like just leave her alone. She's going to him what I want to say to him which is leave her alone just leave her alone she's going to leave you, she's going to take off she doesn't like to be touched like that

so yeah it's just fascinating I'm just thinking about all the things that he says to her now sometimes he'll be like like we took her to puppy class yeah um which is like her getting socialized with the other puppies and before the classes he would he would again take her face in his hands and go you're gonna dominate those other puppies you're gonna be the best puppy there like no one is gonna beat you and I'm like oh my god like this is a little cockapoo and he's talking to her like this it's like it's so funny to me yeah it's amazing how much we project

on our partners like things things that we want to be true yeah like i my wife and i are kind of like the the opposite of the gender stereotype which is is that like, like the wife wants to be in couples therapy and the, the husband, you know, doesn't want to talk about his feelings. And like, we're literally the opposite. I'm just like,

I'm just like, so how I feel is that I would love to go for walks with you. That kind of thing. And she's like, why are we talking about this? And that's like, I've been trying to figure out a bit on that for a while, but I don't know where to go with it. But it definitely is like, I want to talk, it's literally like,

I want to talk about my feelings and she doesn't want to talk about feelings. Yeah, I feel like that's, yeah, your relationship is very similar to mine. I feel like that's, that's, yeah, your relationship is very similar to mine. Um, it's, you know, my, my husband's white and I, um, I dated, I dated a few black guys and I always felt like the black guys that I dated were, didn't communicate a lot. Like I, you know, they would just kind of, I always make this joke about how, like, if I don't know what you're thinking, I can't manipulate you. So like, I really need to know what you're thinking. And so I meet, I meet my husband my husband and you know he tells me everything

and like after five years I would like to know less you know like I'm good I think on knowing everything that's going on in his that's really funny I I had a joke a while back that never found a home similar which is my wife is manipulative. And the way that I can tell this is that I'm manipulative. And when I try to manipulate her, it doesn't work. And I think I could put that somewhere, but I don't know where exactly. But I like yours too. We both have a manipulate your spouse joke. Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's a great bit though. Do you have anything else in your notebook? Yeah, so, I mean, I just have this random idea that's probably offensive, but it's like,

I think straight marriage was invented by gay people to turn straight people gay. And I just, because I feel like, I feel like after five years of marriage, like, I just because I feel like I feel like after five years of marriage, like I just want someone who will listen to me. And, you know, like he my husband does this thing where he'll ask me a question and then he'll literally leave the room as I'm answering the question. He will be like, how did that go? And he'll like walk into the bathroom and close the door while I'm talking. And it's like, what the fuck? And by the same token, like he keeps showing me pictures of motorcycles he wants to get. And I don't know anything about motorcycles.

Like he's like, look at this one. Isn't this cool? Isn't this cool? I have no idea. I don't care. So I feel like he wants to be with a guy and I want to be with a woman. Oh, my gosh. That's so funny.

I relate to that because Jen sometimes will say, like, I'm not a boy. Like, I think you want to hang out with a man. Yes. I just said that to my husband the other day. And, like, I don't know what to say because I know what she means and I know what you mean. Do you, Mike? Do you know what we mean? Do you have a nonprofit that you want to shine a light on that you think is doing good work right now? Yeah, I would love to shine a light on the My Face organization.

They help children who were born with craniofacial differences. And my sister was born with a craniofacial difference. And so and she grew up and she didn't really have like a community of people that like knew what she was going through and knew what that was like. And so this nonprofit really supports these kids, provides them money for surgeries, and also just gives them a community of people that know what they're going through. That's fantastic. So we'll link to them in the show notes, and I'll donate to them.

And thanks, Sarah, for coming on today. This was a blast. I feel like I could go for two more hours. Me too. This was awesome. Working it out, because it's not done. We're working it out because there's no hope. Wow, that was so much fun.

That was another episode of Working It Out with Sarah Cooper. You can follow her and should follow her. She's the best at this. Twitter, Instagram, at Sarah CPR. Follow her today. at this, Twitter, Instagram, at Sarah CPR. Follow her today. Let's get her over 2 million and 3 million and shoot her into the stratosphere because she's doing really original work.

Since this interview was recorded, I received two text messages from Sarah. One simply said, Kendall Jenner. And the other said, our AC was leaking last night and we were cleaning it up this morning and afterward, my husband goes to the dog and says, quote,

none of this is your fault. You did nothing wrong. Our producers are Peter Salamone and Joseph Birbiglia. Consulting producer, Seth Barish. Sound mix by Kate Balinski. Assistant editor, Mabel Lewis. Special thanks to my consigliere, Mike Berkowitz, as well as Marissa Hurwitz. Thank you. Special thanks to my daughter, Una, who created my radio fort. Well, that pillow is for the wall.

Uh-huh. Because it's a low part of the wall. Once again, our thanks to Sam Adams, who is presenting the Restaurant Strong Fund. Join them today at SamuelAdams.com. Thanks most of all to you who are listening to these episodes. Subscribe. Listen back from episode one, two, three, four, five, six, and here we are at seven. Tell your friends, tell your enemies,

we're working it out.