Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 72. Drew Barrymore: Do What You Love

Episode Date: May 16, 2022

Mike’s first-ever major movie role was in Going the Distance, starring Drew Barrymore. Now, 12 years later, Drew takes Mike through her journey from starring in E.T., to hosting SNL at age 7, to producing and starring in some of the most iconic films of the last 30 years. Drew breaks down her approach to comedy, and discusses how hosting her own talk show has allowed her to reclaim the narrative of her own life. Plus, jokes about New York City breakups, and what to do when your soul can’t catch up with your body.Please consider donating to World Central Kitchen

Have you ever had a nickname in your life that was really good or really bad? Everybody calls me Daisy. Aw. Because when I was checked into the institution, they didn't want to use my real name. They wanted to give me an alias to keep my privacy. Yeah. And then it ended up being on the cover of the National Enquirer. Oh, my God.

And there was press outside, and the whole story blew up. So it didn't work. That's the opposite of work. But ever since I was 13 and got checked into an institution under the name Daisy, it is literally my favorite name. It's my whole alter ego. Oh, my gosh. It's my whole alter ego.

We are back with another episode of Working It Out. That's the voice of Drew Barrymore, the iconic and brilliant Drew Barrymore. It's a great episode today. If it sounds a little noisy, we recorded it backstage at her TV studio. She hosts a talk show that I was on recently that's great called The Drew Barrymore Show. Before we get into it today, I just want to mention I'm in Chicago for one more week. I only think there's maybe a few tickets left. And then this summer, I'll actually be in the Hamptons

in New York at the Bay Street Theater for a week. We just added that in the month of July. I think it's six shows only. London is now sold out. Iceland is almost sold out. There's like a few tickets left. And then Paris, plenty of tickets in Paris. My Paris following is starting very small.

It's a very cult group of people. Parisians who are on the Mike Birbiglia comedy train. I'll be at the Mark Taper Forum starting at the end of July through August in Los Angeles. 40 performances. Please

come see that. It's going to be super cool. We have the full set design, the lighting design. And then join the mailing list on verbigs.com to find out about some fall tour announcements. I know on TikTok, I was crowdsourcing. Where should I go where the most people can get to? So we're going to be announcing some stuff in like Detroit

and I think Louisville and like a bunch of places where people were like please come here. We'll certainly come if you go there. So join Burbiggs.com or follow me on Burbiggs on Instagram or TikTok.

Today on the show we have Drew Barrymore. My first movie role ever was in Drew Barrymore's movie that she starred in called Going the Distance in 2009. I was a guest on Drew's show recently. We had a great chat there. So much fun. Obviously, we talk about everything from Charlie's Angels to E.T. about everything from Charlie's Angels to E.T., to her interview with Tom Green recently on her show,

which I loved. It's a great, great chat. It's one of my favorite episodes we've ever done. I mean, she's so emotionally open and honest and has so much wisdom from a really long and storied life in show business and just great stories and great insights. Enjoy my conversation with the great Drew Barrymore.

We're working it. I feel like your pivot into hosting a talk show is in some ways claiming your own life narrative because you're a kid, you're a star, right? I never thought of it that way. Yeah, but as you're a child star, I'm watching you in E.T. when I'm a kid. Yes. We were like, I was a kid, you were a child star, I'm watching you in E.T. when I'm a kid. Yes. We were like, you know, I was a kid, you were a kid in the movie.

Like, it's such a strange parallel existence from Shrewsbury, Massachusetts. And then you're a star, and then you're a romantic comedy star. And, you know, like, you were, like, wildly covered in culture in this way where, like, when I shot a bit part in your movie Going the Distance with Justin Long, like, you and he were dating and paparazzi were around the corner of the set just shooting tons of photos. And, like, what a strange fishbowl existence. And then by having a talk show, you're basically like, well, here's my story and here's all my stuff. Here's what I like. Here's what I like. Here's what I don't like. Here's who I'm dating.

Here's who I'm not dating. And it's kind of got to be, that's got to be empowering, right? It's so funny. I've never thought of it that way. I definitely, and as you're saying that, I remember like that first episode when you launch a talk show, everybody puts this intense onus on who that first guest is. It's a real jockeying for like who is the biggest star you can get. Yeah, yeah. You want to come out of that gate swinging with Mr. or Mrs. A-list, which is such an industry kind of way of thinking.

kind of way of thinking. And I couldn't see who it was, not in a silhouette or in a fantasy or a projection. And one day I was sitting in the conference room next door and the launch is coming. It's around the corner. It's weeks away. And I was in the conference room and I started crying hysterically because all of the sudden I knew who I saw in a vision. And it was Cameron and Lucy. Aww. And I. You're Charlie's angels and you had worked with for so many years. And we've all been such good friends. Yeah.

We're so close. We've become mothers now. Aww. We've gone through divorces. We've gone been such good friends. Yeah. We're so close. We've become mothers now. Aw. We've gone through divorces. We've gone through breakups. We've traveled the world. You were parodied on SNL. You were parodied.

Do you remember? Which one? Which time? Oh, my gosh. I don't remember. I just remember seeing, like— Like the three of us? Yeah, the three.

Like on Weekend Update, I feel like years ago, it was like the three of you like maybe making out with each other. Oh my God. Like people playing you. Oh, well, because we were also so affectionate too, of course. Yeah, that tracks. We were like puppies.

Like three puppies from a litter got like left and we just remained like as if we didn't know any difference. Like you're just supposed to roll around together, right? Isn't that what life is? I love that. And I just thought it's a great—it didn't feel like a reunion because we're all still in each other's lives, but I just thought what a great way to, instead of pretending and posturing to be this talk show host with some A-list star that I didn't know

and was going to interview, I was like, can it be my friends who I have this rich history with and who I think we all accomplished something together that we're really proud of and we've seen each other through every kind of experience that life has to offer. Again, that dark, light, death, birth, loss, grievances, promotions, job changes, everything. There's nothing we haven't, we've seen the world together. And so that for me, maybe contributes to the narrative that you can see because you're more objective than I am. I'm not very objective about myself with great purpose. That felt right to me because it felt more true to myself rather than a posturing. And I felt like it was equally exciting. I was excited by it.

And when you're excited by something, that's more important than what you think you're supposed to do. Screw what you think you're supposed to do. Do what is so within you and like a fire burning burning you can't extinguish just be don't fake shit don't posture don't pretend don't placate to the phantom they the phantom they doesn't exist and they can change their mind on a dime it's so toxic so if you just have fucking faith in yourself which is so hard to do and if you're a self-flagellator like I am, I'm not only trying to believe in myself, but I'm trying to fight and thwart off dragons and demons who are telling me I'm shit all the time. Believe me, we're all so fucking dark inside and we're trying to fight for the light. But the one thing we have going for us is our weird, unique

positioning in ourselves. So if you are yourself, that's the best thing you've got going, even though you're probably telling yourself your shit and you don't think you're the best thing you've got going. Yeah. But you are all you have. Your unique thing. That's it. That's all you have.

Don't pretend to be what you think other people want you to be. Don't do it for other people. Do it because it makes sense to you. And that's where individuality like kicks in. So funny because those two of the things you're saying line up with a thing I wrote years ago for the New York Times, which is six tips to make it small in Hollywood about making indie films basically. And one of them actually was essentially like give yourself to the audience because it's essentially like all you have to offer. All any of us have to offer is ourselves. Yes.

I did. That's so well put. I don't know how you said it in three words or five words, and it took me ten minutes to articulate that thought. But all you have to offer is yourself. But so often we're witnessing people in show business trying to be someone else. It's hard to be an originator. say from financial, you know, world to artistic world to like, a lot of people are recycling what we know. Like it's hard to come up with something like brand new that's never been done. Those are very lightning in a bottle moments and not easy to produce from every person every day. A lot of us are recycling

the things we know and we're following, you know, a little bit of a format and you could think of it as lemmings or you could think of it as, you know, we're just trying to function. It is rare in any field that someone creates something brand new. Think about, like, if you write something, it's not the first time it's ever been written. It's hard. It is very unique and rare to build a first or a new in any field that we have. The other thing that you were saying that echoes something from that six tips piece was, I always say, do what you love, not what you like. Because there's so many things you like, especially if you're someone who generally sort of enjoys the wonder of it all.

But there's very few things that you love. You're like, I have to do that. Shit for bigs. That's so freaking profound. Can I swear on this? Please. Okay, good. Oh, yeah.

I can't on the show, so I just need to let it rip. It's the one thing I couldn't change as a parent. I was like, I changed everything for you guys, but I have a fucking swearer. I know, Jen and I dance around it. Oh, I can't. I can't. And my kids are actually really healthy about it, thank God. I love that so much.

It reminds me of this story, this gentleman. His name is Raja Ghaznal. He's a director now. I had never been kissed with him. But before that, he was an editor, and he edited Pretty Woman. And, of course, I was like, tell me everything. Because Pretty Woman had a very different tone and story when it was originally made. Oh, that's interesting.

It was called like 3000. And I think it had quite a different ending. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. And it was a bit of a different tone. And then they kind of reimagined it in editing. Same with, like, Annie Hall, a lot of great movies. Oh, yeah, yeah. Both of my movies, Don't Think Twice and Sleepwalk With Me, were completely reconceived in the edit. A lot of people say there's the writing of the movie, and that's making a movie. There's the shooting of the movie, and that's making another movie.

And there's the editing of the movie, and that's making a third movie. Exactly. And the third movie is the one people see. Yes, that's exactly right. That's not my own wisdom, but's making a third movie. Exactly. And the third movie is the one people see. Yes. That's exactly right. That's not my own wisdom, but I've heard that before. So Raja said to that point, he was like, I think of it as like a sifter. Yeah.

And you put stuff on the sifter and you shake it and you see what sort of falls out. Oh, I like that. And then, you know, you keep doing that until what's like in the bowl is left and all the stuff that kind of stayed on top and didn't make it in. Yeah. And if you do what you love and not just what you like, you're putting so much on the sifter and keeping the important stuff. maybe getting rid of some of the more superfluous, overabundant things because we can all get really overwhelmed and lose our way very easily. So if you choose your battles like that and you keep that as a cardinal rule, that's very educating.

Like I'm going to be taking that wisdom with me very much to heart and constantly thinking about that statement. You gave me a little bit of an Oprah aha light bulb moment. Like that is a very big takeaway for people. And it's a big takeaway for me. If you unpack you going from like ET to hosting your own talk show, along the way, there's also like steps towards that where you become a producer and a director. Yep.

And you're ultimately part of the creation team of these movies you're in. Well, Nancy Javonin, who's now Nancy Fallon, your friend as well, I met her when I was 19. And I had done E.T., I had done Firestarter and, you know, sort of all these movies and then, like, just had too much excess and access. Mom and life just sort of created a monster in that way that I wasn't a mean, bad person, but I just got so heavily involved in clubbing and drugs at this really, really abnormal age. I'm sure if I was in my early 20s, it probably wouldn't have been so shocking. But it was like, I'm seven at Studio 54. Oh, I'm.

And so my mom threw me in an institution and then I got blacklisted because. Oh, my gosh. And that's still a really big trigger for me because I never screwed up at work. I just screwed up in life. But, you know, I think my job was very much taken away and I wasn't sort of a trusted source, and I understood that from my own behavior, but I just felt terrible because I was like, God, I never screwed up at work. And then I got out, 14, got emancipated, started working in a coffeehouse, and then I was like, shit, you know, my boss yelled at me because I was so bad at my job. He hated me so much. I don't know why he even kept me around.

I think for his amusement. Would people stop you when you're serving in a company and be like, you're Drew Barrymore? Yeah, all the time. Oh my gosh. Every day. Jesus Christ. And ironically, that's where I met Cameron. Oh my gosh. Was at the coffee house on La Brea in Los Angeles in West Hollywood. She was a 16, a junior model, and I was 14, 15, living on my own, emancipated. And we became friends. And she was this beautiful girl who didn't have an attitude and was a girl's girl and everything you wanted. Because so many girls, you know, who are that attractive, like, they're not always the warmest, but she was so goofy and yummy.

And I was just like, I feel fucking great about myself around her. I fucking love her. We just sparked and got electrically connected right away. She's funny. It's like something about Mary was a revelation for everyone

because it was like, oh yeah, that's the girl every girl wants to be friends with and every guy wants to date. Like she's been that since 16. Yeah, yeah. Since I've known her. And then I just, I think it was like my boss who hated me, Robert Cass, who was basically kind of indicated like I, I wasn't living my dreams. Yeah. And I was being really complacent and stuck. And I just remember being like, I got to quit this job,

and I got to get back on the horse, and I got to start facing people. Yeah. And I had a lot of casting directors who were not so nice. Oh, gosh. A very you're lucky to be here kind of thing. And I just thought, you know what? Fuck it. I've experienced rejection as a kid.

You don't get a ton of parts that you go up for. I don't fucking care. Fuck this. I'm going to go in, and I'm going to keep trying. And this word earn became so important to me. You have to earn things. People fuck up. They lose shit.

You've got to go get it back. This happens to fucking everyone in life. And so I just kept showing up and then I kept, I finally got work. And then I think there was like, ooh, you're ET kid. I was like, how do I wash people's minds out of that? I need like Listerine for the brain. I know I I'll go sexy. Oh, my gosh. And I was like, that'll change people's minds. I know. I'll go sexy. I know.

I'm going to go sex kitten. By the way, that's not an option for everybody. I never had that, Drew. I never had that. Where's my I know I'll go sexy Mike Birbiglia moment in life? By the way, everybody can be sexy. Yeah. No, I agree.

It's so about like a within confidence. Yes. And it worked, luckily. And I started playing like a bunch of tart-like roles. And I Listerined the brain of little Gertie and went into like Poison Ivy, Amy Fisher. Little Gertie and went into Poison Ivy, Amy Fisher. And then I was about to do this part that was another one of those. And I backed out at the last minute and I was devastated because I knew it was going to be the most epic movie.

And it was. And I went and met Nan and was like, I want to make films. I, I could, I was really a B movie actress, like Tartt. And I had put myself in that box and I was like, okay, now I got to figure this out. And what were those movies? I'm trying to think of what those movies are. Poison Ivy, Amy Fisher. Okay. Like, I was kind of in that, like, mode. Okay. I did this Western called Bad Girls where, like, former prostitutes turn into, like, Western vigilantes, basically. Okay. But it wasn't going that way.

And I thought it would be so rad to do, like, a badass chick action film. And it just wasn't that movie. And I saw this woman running around on set trying to solve all the problems. She was a producer. So I was like, I want to. And that's Nancy. No, it was Linda Oates, this woman. No, and then I met Nana. And I was like, dude, I dare you to start a production company with me.

You're saying you were 19 when you met Nancy. I was 19, yeah. And you sort of dared her to start a production company with you. I dared her. We didn't know each other very well. This is crazy. I just had a feeling about her. This is a crazy story. And you sort of dared her to start a production company with you. We didn't know each other very well. This is crazy. I just had a feeling about her. This is a crazy story.

And you were a brother really well, Jim. And I was convinced. I know Jim because he's at the Tonight Show. Yep. I think still. Yep. He's running Jimmy's shows. He's doing That's My Jam and Lip Sync.

I mean, everything. They're doing everything. Yes. So, yeah, she took a risk, moved from San Francisco to L.A. And then here's how we basically started a production company at 19 called Flower Films. We sat around and we talked about what do we like? Yeah. Who are the directors we admire?

We got in with writers. Yeah. Nothing exists. It's all a pitch and nobody has a crystal ball. So we're going to sidle up with all the writers. We became friends with literary agents. We didn't party with people. We weren't out for the CNBC.

That is the opposite. We didn't want to be party girls. Yeah. We wanted to be really creating things. We would option books. And I remember an embarrassing moment where we put the director, Hal Ashby, who made just the best films ever, Coming Home and Harold and Maude and all these great films. And they were like, he's dead. And we were like, okay, somebody like him.

Oh, my God, that's so funny. Being there. Being there. Yeah, yeah. like him oh my god that's so funny being there being there he was we loved like the curtis hansons and the anglies and these gosh these filmmakers who like you couldn't tell what they were going to make next they were so full of range everything they did was so perfectly tailor-made did that movie they weren't cookie cutter there was that 1990s period where there were those filmmakers were able to make those films, essentially.

Yes. And that's what I grew up on. Yes. That's how I got really in love with independent film. That's— Like those directors. Those directors. I'm going to make this so perfect for what it's supposed to be

rather than make it my formula. Yeah. And so—and I wanted to express range as an actor. And I wanted, so we just started like building kind of a little shop where we figured out what we liked and what we wanted to make and put out into the world. We found the script Forever After. We found the script called Scary Movie, which turned into Scream. Oh, my gosh. Unbelievable.

In my opinion, one of the greatest first scenes of all time. Well, I wasn't originally supposed to play that part. Oh, my gosh. I was supposed to play the Sydney part, who is the main character. And then I had a moment where Nan and I were living in this apartment in New York. And I had a moment where Nan and I were living in this apartment in New York. And I had like a freak out. And I was like, I have to play the opening scene.

The fucking thing in scary movies is you always know you're going to be okay. Yes. Like Jamie Lee Curtis will always live. Oh, my gosh. She's still alive. And of course Drew Barrymore is going to be okay in this movie. Exactly. Jan is an in-psycho. So I convinced everybody to do it, and we did it.

And Nan and I were together when I filmed it, because we were sort of unofficially not producing it, but helping with it and being a part of it. And I remember we drove home to her mom, Pam, in Santa Rosa, and it was all night shoots. And I was out on a pier drinking beers at like 8 a.m just so happy that like the whole mission of like two years of trying to make this film was done and we just liked what we did and and then we made Never Been Kissed was

our first official movie and then she would come in and be like dude they're making Charlie's Angels over at Sony and I read the script and it like dark. And it takes place in like Switzerland or Germany and California. Angels, bright, poppy, colorful. Dude, we got to do this. And I was like, oh, my God. That feels like a really big second step, Nan. But we did. And we proved to Sony that we could make this movie.

And we found a writer because we had been studying writers, so we asked John August to do it. Oh, my gosh. And he wrote the script, and then I called Cameron and convinced her to do it, and she— This story is too much. She really was in a place in her life where she was being very choosy. She was doing the Being John Malkoviches.

Oh, yeah. There's something about Mary's and she was— Vanilla Sky was around that time, I think. I think it was after. Okay. But she was really in a very, she could have anything she wanted and do anything. And she made choices from her heart. She was not. Wow. I think all of the people I have really loved and become close to are not career-driven people. loved and become close to are not career-driven people. They are like, this is what I love. Yeah.

This is what I need to do. I'm going to do it, and it works out for them. Those people who are, like, riddled to the gills with ambition are not my kind. Yeah. Are not my speed. Yeah. That, like, hungry, I want it. I can't fucking take that. I can't take that energy.

That's why I've never been able to live in Los Angeles. The whole town of Los Angeles. No, really. I lived there for a sitcom pilot based on my life like 13 years ago that never went to air. And my experience of living in Los Angeles was everyone, you walk in a room and people place a value on your forehead and it's just in your head the whole time. The vibe of everyone's value is in every conversation. And I didn't agree with what my value was with anyone. I was like, no, no, I'm very valuable. And they're like, no, you're not. Well, thank God you believed in yourself. You know what I mean, though?

Like sometimes in Los Angeles, it does feel like everything's a transaction. Yeah. And the thing you're describing of like these people who are just like more successful, more blah, blah, blah. And it's hard sometimes to distinguish because there's a lot of great artists in Los Angeles, so many. I think it's intention. It's like I can feel people's intention. And so I just don't want to be around greed. Yeah.

And there's a greediness in like just wanting more and to be more powerful and more successful. And that kind of, here's another word that really upsets me, is calculated. I just hate when people are like, well, this would be the best next move. Yeah. Fuck it. Yeah. Do what your fucking heart and your gut tells you. So, you know, I convinced Cameron, who was literally had every option open to her.

And I was like, you're not going to believe this, but Charlie's Angels, there's no fucking script, and I really want to hire this first-time music video director. And Sony's going to take a risk on this for $100 million, but I swear to God, I promise you this, I will not let you down. Please come take the fucking leap and do this with me. And she did. And Nan was very much, when I grew up in Hollywood and in industry, really I only had Steven Spielberg to look to for a moral compass. Nan was a human moral compass for me.

She used to say, we keep our promises. We keep our head down and we do the work. We deliver to people who have trusted us with a budget. And she would just slow and steady wins the race. She had all these kind of isms that really spoke to me and helped teach me what kind of person I wanted to be in life. I didn't have parents and I didn't have siblings. And she became like the sister I never had, but she is that older sister in the way of, she's not older than me in age. She's that wise taskmaster, really tough fucking customer. Yeah.

Who doesn't take bullshit and who tells me things really straight. And honestly, I can't tell you the amount of times Nan has laid into me about shit. And I fucking love her for it. It's like the people I love the most are the harshest, most honest, real. They want the best from me. They want the best for me. They expect the best from me. They're not willing to be a yes man or take my shit if I am failing. Even recently, like, I don't know, in the last five years, I really fucking went down and was struggling in life. And who walks in but Nan?

She's like, this is enough. You're not okay. It's not okay. Pull it fucking together. I'm helping you. Like, she really is that. I got really lucky. I found people in this world who would have my back and kick my ass and love me all at the same time.

And I love them in ways that the only thing I can do is try to live up to the potential they see and try to make them proud because the show called the slow round. Sort of memories. Do you have a smell you remember from your childhood? Night-blooming jasmine. That was so fast. There was a big night-blooming jasmine. Fastest response to that question ever. Bush outside of our tiny little broken-down duplex that I lived in when I was a kid from zero to seven on Point City, a place in West Hollywood.

Wow. Los Angeles, California. And it was such a regal, royal, rich, beautiful scent. Night Blooming Jasmine is so elevated. Yeah. And there was really nothing elevated about where we lived. Oh, that's beautiful. Or what our life was. And I did a thing called kaleidoscope, which is where you blind scent test every accord that goes into

what makes perfume at the end of the day. So it's like 250 different scents. And they say scent is the strongest memory. That's what they say. I remember smelling this one scent and I burst into tears because it was the night-blooming jasmine outside of our little duplex. I just love that. Have you ever had a nickname in your life that was really good or really bad? Everybody calls me Daisy. Oh.

Because when I was checked into the institution, they didn't want to use my real name. They wanted to give me an alias to keep my privacy. Yeah. And then it ended up being on the cover of the National Enquirer. Oh, my God. And there was press outside, and the whole story blew up. So it didn't work.

That's the opposite of work. But ever since I was 13 and got checked into an institution under the name Daisy, it is literally my favorite name. It's my whole alter ego. I love Daisy. It's my favorite flower. That's why they picked it for me. And to this day, if you're like, I'm not going to tell you the last name that they gave me because then my entire alias will be given up.

But like prescriptions, hotel rooms, like everything's under Daisy blank. Oh, my gosh. And it's like I own this name and I love it so much. I'm so proud of my nickname, Daisy. I think that's the best answer also. The institutional origin story of my life. I love when people call me Drew Bear. Oh, that's sweet.

That's so rare, though. That is one in a billion people. I love that. Strangest neighbor you remember growing up? Well, ironically, the person who gave me the nickname Drew Bear was this couple, Joel and Gina. And they lived on the other side of the duplex. Yeah. The night blooming Jasmine.

And they were a very young, sexy couple. And we went to their wedding and they had Dalmatian dogs. And I just loved them so much. And I remember sometimes I would hear them like laughing on the other side of the wall or fighting or just living their life. It was weird because I was convinced there was just no sound on our side of the wall. My mom and I lived in like a very quiet, single mother-daughter home and everything was so loud outside of that house. We were on movie sets and she worked at the comedy store. But for some reason, our side of the duplex was, like, eerily silent. And Joel and Gina's sounded like it had life in it. Oh, my gosh.

And I would, like, covet it. But that's, like, when I hear neighbors, I think of Joel and Gina. I'm like, why did our house sound so silent? Oh, my gosh. And our life outside the duplex was extremely exciting. Do you remember your earliest memory? Like the first thing you remember, the youngest you remember being? It was definitely a lot around that duplex. I mean, I'm thinking it must have been like two or three, two, I think, two years old. I remember being in commercials and on films, like commercial sets.

And at the time, I had a neighbor named Daniel Faircloth. We used to sell apples around the neighborhood. I can't believe like our parents just let us walk around like a very dangerous neighborhood at two and three years old. We're doing a story on the news later today about how there's this whole movement actually where people are sending three and four-year-olds

on serious errands. And it's just crazy to people. Yes. But it's exactly the way we all grew up. No, I've seen those clips. Yeah. It's in Japan, right? It's everywhere, yes.

It's crazy. It's a series on Netflix. Yep, exactly. Exactly, exactly, exactly. Yeah, I was intrigued by that story. I actually am very intrigued by it because my kids are now at this age where I'm like, I need you to go do this. And there's really good developmental information out there, actually, if you go to Raising Good Humans.

And there are other outlets that kind of have really interesting, teachable ways of empowering your kids. And we do fucking everything for them. And so, yeah, i'm like super into this movement that's fascinating my kids are now eight and almost ten and i'm like oh they need to just start doing a lot more things i'm so inspired totally what so i so the the thing that i don't understand about your career that i think might be illustrative it's like for people who pursue comedy is like how'd you learn comedy no one taught you comedy you never an improv group you never did stand up and then but you're so funny and you're such a funny actress you're

such a funny tv host I can't even believe I'm hearing that from you it like freaks me out thank you i i think it's a personality thing um i'm not totally sure if it's like that whole nurture nature question like are you inherently funny or can it be learned i don't know the answer um i know that because i haven't seen et.T. in many years, but I remember when we went to what was the 20th anniversary. Oh, my gosh. We just had the 40th. We're having the 40th this year. I remember being shocked at how jokey and sarcastic my character Gertie was. Oh, yeah.

I did not remember it that was. Oh, yeah. I did not remember it that way. Oh, interesting. And when I went back in my 20s and watched it, I was like, holy shit, this fucking character is really comedic and sarcastic. She's a real goofball. She's real, like, she's a real ba-dum-tsh. You know?

Like, everything was like, give me a break. And like, you think so and i was really shocked i did not remember it yeah when we were making it that way but i know for a fact that i owe it all to steven spielberg because he auditioned me like six times for the role and um or four times many many times and he would tell me to embellish on my stories and i was a huge liar i made up stories i made up everything i told him i was in a band i lied about this i like but it wasn't like a lie to lie it was all imagination and most directors when they're directing, nobody to this day has ever been like Steven Spielberg. He was like, no, make that joke.

Make something up. Improv. Give him a wisecrack. He'd hear something on the side and be like, put that into the scene. So he single-handedly taught me what improv was. Yeah. He single-handedly taught me what improv was. Yeah.

And then when E.T. came out, they asked me to do Saturday Night Live. And I hosted the show in 1982. And he was very involved because he really was, again, the only kind of father figure I've ever had. And he brought Robin Williams to the show. Oh, my gosh. Which scared me so much because Mork from Ork was coming. And I was like, oh, shit, Mork from Ork is coming. And we all knew how big and talented and exciting he was. And when I did the show, it was Eddie Murphy.

Oh, my gosh. But Eddie Murphy hadn't become this big, exploding actor. Right. That was like Eddie Murphy, Joe Piscopo. Yep. Julie Louise Dreyfuss. Yes, yes. And Brad Hall.

Yes, yes. Mary Gross, Tim Kazerinsky. Oh my gosh. And that was the cast. That's wild. And I, that week

and coming off of ET and having people I think put like microphones and cameras in my face was such an invitation to me to go for it. Oh, yeah. That between the crazy press tour of ET, and there's so many interviews I did, and that was Carson taking my teeth out. Like, I was only being encouraged to play.

To be goofy. To be goofy. Yeah. I was, there was laughter. There was encouragement. Yeah. So at six years old and seven, when the film came out and we were doing the world tour, all the interviews, Saturday Night Live, Carson, all of those experiences within the space of a year literally told me, you go for it.

Yeah. You go. And then when I started going hard into comedy later on in life, I realized that it was making a weird deal, which was you're going to drive home. You're going to put it all out there. You're going to feel like shit while you're doing it. Oh, my gosh. Because you're going to literally be doing things, a lot that won't work, a lot that are going to make people uncomfortable, a lot that's going to fail or flop in that moment, and you're going to be left with egg all over your face. But no matter what you do, just be on that drive home knowing you really went for it.

Yeah. And you left no stone unturned, and you did embarrass yourself fully. Yeah. And that was the lessons of, like's huge the 20s that's huge i mean i had that when i was in train wreck my character was uh amy schumer's like brother-in-law i've seen it 50 times i know and and the best and you're the best in that movie she was she amy would make fun of me and she would improvise and improvise and improvise and it was like like and it was after a while it's just like this does not feel like we're playing the characters like this feels real

and i would come home to jen i would come home to jen and i would go i think then i might be like a loser and i don't realize it and uh and and know, Jen would, like, reassure me. But it's funny how on the sets of those things it really blends into life. It doesn't matter where you are. If you're going to try to go for comedy, you've got to leave it all out on the field. And you will probably be guaranteed to have a really bad drive home. Oh my gosh, that's so funny. And that's the only way you know that, like, you maybe got something. I wrote a joke a year ago about how it's so hard to be single in New York City

because so many women think they're living in the show Sex and the City and so many men think they're living in the show Mad and the City and so many men think they're living in the show Mad Men. But we're all living in Game of Thrones. Except for in Game of Thrones, everybody has a lot of sex. And there's like a fierceness. I feel like it almost feels like some weird, like, 80s Billy Crystal movie. Oh, my. Mr. Saturday Night Live?

Yeah, and not when Harry met Sally. Like, it's like the odd couple. Well, my other joke about New York is that, like, one of the strangest things about it is that so often you see people breaking up in the street. Because it's too expensive to break up indoors. Like there's no room, you know? And so like one day I saw this woman on the street and she was like crying on the phone. It was like a breakup. And I wanted to walk up to her and be like, it's going to be okay. And then I thought, what a nightmare that would be for her. It's like the man of her dreams just broke it to her that they have no future.

And then this middle-aged guy, ogre, walks up to her and goes, guess what? I'm the future. But saying it's okay is not saying you're the future. It's like I used to love, like, fighting on the New York City streets. I always had boyfriends. Jen and I had some bad ones on the New York streets. Oh, I love it. Fuck it.

It's fair game. It's the sidewalk. Everybody owns it. I've had so many dramatic meltdowns and fights. What's the worst argument you've ever remember having on the street of New York City? All I know is that I remember, like, the guy saying, like, we're out in public. And I was like, fucking who fucking cares? Oh, my God.

Yeah. I have a story where Jen and I broke up once. It's in the My Girlfriend's Boyfriend show, but she literally kneed me in the balls. Did you deserve it? Probably, yeah, yeah. But, like, it was horrible. That is such a good story. Probably, yeah, yeah.

But like, it was horrible. That is such a good story. It's horrible because like, not only are you experiencing this pain that's like inconceivable, but like people are staring at you experiencing it. I never had a problem with that. I guess I, you know, I don't know. I've been trained to be okay with people knowing. I don't know. And I enjoy watching other people live their lives.

Well, that's what's fun about New York, I think. Yeah. It's a constant show. I would love to see a couple fighting on the corner. Yeah, yeah. That would make my fucking day. Here's a joke that's not even a joke as much as it's just a feeling that I feel like you might relate to.

Okay. Sometimes I feel like my body is sprinting through life and my soul is jogging behind it out of breath. Yes, I do. And a gym teacher's yelling at me, hustle up. And every day I think, I'm just going to walk for a little bit. Can I meet you at the beginning of the path? It's like not even a joke. It's just a lot of times I write things down in my notebook because they're like half thoughts. I love that, though. I love it because I'm out of shape and I feel like we're just not caught up to our own potential a lot of the days. But if you are following it and chasing behind it, at least it's within the realm of possibilities. That's nice.

And also out of shape. I always say I'm— I was just thinking of you because you're so busy. I like this one. Sometimes I talk about the gynecological table of life. Yes. Where it just feels like it's all out there. Oh, my gosh, that's hilarious.

That's a big one for me. That's so funny. The gynecological table of life because it's all out there. That goes back to the thing I was saying about jokes. We're all revealing ourselves all the time. Yeah, especially now, especially in the society we live in with social media. Sure. A big thing with this show was that I begged and said, I am willing not to do this show if it's all going to be celebrity.

And this was in 2019 before really everything changed. I was like, because of social media, it's the great equalizer. Everybody has the ability to put themselves out there, and we're no longer living in like a here's the royals kind of society. Like we need to acknowledge human interest the same way we acknowledge someone we've known and loved for years. And I think that goes for the TMI or the all-sharing or the all-capable of putting it all out there. It's so true. I wrote down, this doesn't really fit in my show, but it's, I'm not sure of this, but I think if you fall asleep in an airport massage chair, you might wake up in the 1980s. Totally, at a Brookstone.

Or a Hemlock or Schlemmer. Remember that? By the way, SkyMall. Oh, yeah. Remember all of those great, those are all gone. I guess it's just all on Amazon now. I bet you purchased some things on SkyMall.

Oh, fuck yeah. I would go through that. I was like, I need those booties. Oh my God, like a straw that's like permanently cold or whatever they were hawking. I loved it. The reason why I wrote this down is because I was on a flight.

I was in an airport the other day and I saw a guy sitting on a massage chair at the airport without paying for the massage function. Do you have to pay for that? Yeah, it's like you put money in and then it massages you. Do you know what I miss? What? Coin beds that vibrate. Coin beds that vibrate.

Like, that was such— Coin beds that vibrate? That was such good— What the hell is that? It was all comedy. And so many 80s movies used it. You know, you'd put a quarter in the bed and then it would vibrate and shake. Oh, yes.

I think it was, like, for better sex. Sure. But, like— Yeah, right. Did that ever even exist? Was that a real thing? Yes. Remember? It's, like, in Vacation. Yes. And then ever even exist? Definitely. Was that a real thing? Yes. Remember, it's like in vacation.

Yes. And then it like, the springs like pop and everything. But no, that was a thing. You put a quarter in the bed and then the bed vibrates. Like, why did that stop? And then I wrote down, last week I was touring D.C. I was getting a massage in Washington, D.C. And it was one of the best massages I've ever had.

And the last thing the guy does is he takes my legs and he starts sort of wrestling them like an alligator, and it felt fantastic. And I go, I said to him, I go, that feels so good. What's it called? And he goes, the never-ending happiness. And I said, that's pretty incredible. And he goes, and I quote, this is a true story.

He goes, that's why they call me the DC Touchmaster. And I thought, I hope that's the reason. Because I'm pretty sure I saw a documentary about that. And there wasn't never-ending happiness. I was going to say, never-ending happiness sounds like he was going to, you know. No, I know. It has a whole. Pleasure you.

There's a whole lineage of never-ending happiness in massages. I remember I went to a massage place with my friend, and they did give him a happy ending. Oh, really? And I thought it was so crazy. I was like, what? That's real? That's not just like in the movies? I've never gotten that, but I've gotten the vibe that that's about to happen.

And I've tried to give the vibe of I don't want that to happen. And it's a very hard, intangible vibe of like, maybe I'm going to just move around too much so that doesn't happen. I had a woman in Germany, like definitely I could tell she was trying. And I was like, I'm married. I can't. Otherwise, I'd totally do it. But my husband's really not going to appreciate this. But yeah, I like an 80s massage chair.

We actually have one in the other room. I'm not kidding. Yeah, no, I respect that. Let me close on one. Oh, this is the other day. What else? I'm trying to get more in my show about my daughter. At first I was like, I don't want to have my daughter in the show at all

because my last show was all about having a child. Okay. So I was like, I don't want to have it. But then ultimately— Was it not to be redundant or to protect her? Both. Got it. I was like, I don't want to have a whole show where people go, how's Una now?

You know what I mean? Right. It's like, no, no, that's her life. Right. You know what I mean? But then ultimately, The Old Man and the Pool is all about life and aging and what we value in life. And it's like, what I value is my daughter so much. Also, I'm a parent, so I really want to hear it.

Yeah. I'm a parent, so I really want to hear it. Yeah, and so the other day I wrote this down, which is, so we either walk Una to school or she scoots on her scooter or she takes an Uber or I drive her. And the other day I was driving her to school and Una says to Jen, I like Dad better than Uber because we don't have to wait for dad. And I thought, that's what you prefer about dad? This dad is five stars. I'm like the Uber driver who lives with you and then picks up the tab on breakfast. I don't know. It's a half an idea. I like that. I mean, I go to like a sentimental

place with that. Like if your kid likes anything you do, and it's okay if they don't like what you're doing, because that probably means you're laying down a boundary and they need it, which took me a long time to learn. But when your kid is happy with the way you do things, is there any more, is there anything better? There's nothing. No, and they're the ultimate truth tellers. The other day, Una goes, Dad, you have yellow teeth. I'm like, yeah, I sort of do.

I'm sorry about that. I'm working on it. I know. Oh, my kids call me yellow teeth. When I have like a yoga thing up on the TV, they're like, we don't want to watch yoga. And I'm like, no, I was just trying to like do some. And then Frankie will be like, yeah, I've noticed you put on weight. Oh, my God.

And I'm like, oh, shit. No, you didn't. Kids just say the darndest things. The best show ever, the Art Linklater show. I like that you know that Una feels like you're a five-star dad. Oh, that's sweet. I think five-star dad is a nice ring to it. A nice title for that track.

Exactly. What's a nonprofit that you think does a really good job, and then I'm going to donate to them, and I'm going to link to them in the show notes. Really? Yeah. Okay, mine is now World Central Kitchen. Okay.

And one of my favorite things that I've ever heard a human being say is Jose Andres saying, we've got to get help to people, not tomorrow, but today. Yeah, I love that. And he is the most make it happen person. And I've worked with other philanthropic endeavors and there's so much holdup and I don't know how he doesn't let the holdup stop him, but his perseverance is a marvel. Also, I think food is a very safe, non-political, non-judgmental, no sides. I always give to food banks when I tour. Everybody needs to eat. This is not about who's right and who's wrong. It is just a humanity thing. Well, I'm going to donate to his organization. Thank you for that. Will you do

it under slash True Barrymore? I have a fund going with him. I have created a fund so that I can continue to raise money for them. I'm going to do that and then I'm going to do it also for Daisy. Daisy's um...

And Drew Bear. Oh. I think Daisy's more fun and cooler than I am also. I love, I gotta love that nickname. Daisy's. It's the greatest. Daisy's a much bigger badass than I am. This is a joy.

Thank you for doing this. Daisy's, by the way, the one running, and I'm the one trying to catch up. Oh. Working it out, cause it's not done. Working it out, cause there's no hope. That's going to do it for another episode of Working It Out with Drew Barrymore. Can you believe it?

Drew Barrymore came on to the Working It Out podcast. She's fantastic. You should follow her at DrewBarrymore on Instagram. Check your local listings for the Drew Barrymore show. Our producers of Working It Out are myself along with Peter Salamone and Joseph Birbiglia. Consulting producer Seth Barish. Sound mix by Kate Balinski. Special thanks to

Chuck Statton who recorded this episode on location. And special thanks to all the producers over at the Drew Barrymore show who helped us make this happen. It's a crack squad of people over there. We really appreciate it. Associate producer Mabel Lewis. Special thanks to my consigliere Mike Berkowitz, as well as Marissa Hurwitz and Josh Epfall. Special thanks, as always, to Jack Antonoff

and Bleachers for their music. They are touring the world right now. I'm going to see them in London when I am there. As always, very special thanks to my wife, the poet J. Hope Stein. Her book was just announced which is called Little Astronaut it comes out in the fall you can pre-order it now and if you do that she'll send you a special little extra book that she wrote

that I love also you can follow her on Instagram at J. Hope Stein as always a very special thanks to my daughter Una who created a radio fort made of pillows. Thanks most of all to you who have listened. I can tell you're listening because I'm seeing these nice notes on Apple Podcasts, on the reviews. If you're able to go on there and just say what your favorite episode is, that helps us a lot.

It's the best way to tell your friends. It's the best way to even inform your enemies. We're working it out, everybody. See you next time.