Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 75. Zarna Garg: Humor is a Strategy

Episode Date: June 27, 2022

Comedian Zarna Garg immigrated to the U.S. from India at age 16 and started performing stand-up comedy in her forties. As Zarna’s daughter Zoya explained in her New York Times-published college essay, it was not an easy path. Zarna sits down with Mike to discuss how humor has always been a strategy in her life, from escaping an impending arranged marriage to navigating life in a new country. Plus stories and jokes about upgrading her husband, trashing her mother-in-law on stage, and why Zarna approaches stand-up comedy like hosting a dinner party. Please consider donating to The Comedy Cures Foundation

You trash your husband so hard in your act. Oh, well. And it's a riot. And it's like... I don't worry about it too much. Because you know what's going to happen, Mike? I'm going to become rich and famous, and then I'm going to upgrade.

I'm going to fool Hollywood with this. Oh, my God. That's what you do in this town. I'm so glad you're being so forthright about this. Yeah, I know. I told him, too. I'm like, start looking. Because this is happening.

Oh, my gosh. I told him too, I'm like, start looking, because this is happening. Oh my gosh. That is the voice of the great Zarna Garg. Zarna Garg is a comedian who I met at the Comedy Cellar. I think is a riot, just has a fascinating life story. Moved to America from India when she was 16 years old and has this wildly

burgeoning stand-up career right now. She's on tour. She's making viral Instagram and TikTok videos. Her handle is at Zarnagarg, Z-A-R-N-A-G-A-R-G. We have a great talk today. I mean, it's like one of the more fascinating people

who I've met in my entire comedy career. I think you're going to love the episode. A couple things before we get going. Two big ones this summer. I'm going to be in Sag Harbor, New York for a week, and I'm going to be in Los Angeles for a month. Those are the headlines. Those are the major things.

I'm going to be at the Bay Street Theater in Sag Harbor in July, and then I'm going to be at the Mark Taper Forum for 40 performances. Count them, 40 performances, eight a week, for five weeks in Los Angeles. If you're anywhere near there, it's the world premiere of the full production of The Old Man and the Pool, which you've listened, hopefully,

to all 75 episodes over the last two years in developing this show. You've been a part of the process, and I can't wait for you to see the final version. In the fall, I've just announced a whole bunch of tour dates.

Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Toronto, Atlanta, Cincinnati, Columbus, Detroit, Salt Lake City, Mesa, Arizona. More to be announced. I'm trying to get Louisville in there. I'm listening to all your suggestions on TikTok and Instagram. Again, this is a great conversation

with Zarna. You can follow her at Zarna Garg. Enjoy my conversation with the great Zarna Garg. We're working it. You and I met at the Comedy Cellar in New York City, my favorite club in the world, and you're just crushing. And then we started talking, and I met at the Comedy Cellar in New York City, my favorite club in the world, and you're just crushing.

And then we started talking, and I find out you moved here from India when you're 16. I'm going, wait a minute. You're telling me this is your second language? You're crushing like that this is your second language? It's actually my third language. What are your first two? Because you know India, you're required to learn the national language, Hindi. Right.

And then my own mother tongue, which is Gujarati, which is what I learned when I was born. But the advantage English has is that Hollywood is everywhere. I grew up as if I was an American teenager, honestly.

Right. I watched Three's Company growing up. Come and knock on my door. Oh, my God. That's so funny. And I read Archie's comics. I mean, that's the power of American pop culture.

Yes. You think it's still that way? A hundred percent. Every kid that has access, and today more than ever, they all have access. They're all watching Friends. I quote you all the time because I'll go, and of course I'm bastardizing, I'm sure your jokes, but like, I'll always be like, my friends are in a garg, so funny. She does this joke where she goes, you know, uh, my daughter is enough about her. And then

you start talking about your son and it always creeps me out. Can you say that joke properly? Because I'm literally botching it. Yeah, no, I mean, there's also truth to it. So we have three kids. Only the oldest boy is important. Which I think every South Asian family member, family understands. But I do feel like I got lucky

because we do have two boys. And one girl, whatever about her. Whatever about her, that's the line. And, you know, she goes to, like, a good college. And, you know, we should be so happy, right? The kid got in. And literally our whole family is like, the wrong kid got in. Oh, my God.

We need him. The wrong kid got in. My mother-in-law called from india and she's like you called at college and say we're not sending her unless they also promise to take him i just can't take it it's like it's so funny but it's like definitely in the stereotypes universe it's like do you ever get pushback from people being like i'm offended by yeah you're using stereotypes about your own culture of course i I do. But that's part of being part of this world.

Of course I'm offending people. I take it as a compliment. If I didn't offend anybody I wouldn't be doing no work. You're wildly memorable. Every now and then on Instagram you'll post a message someone sent you, a private message, and you'll say

I'm an Indian woman. I was in the audience the other night. I have a bindi. I relate to things that you say. They're just like my life. And it gives me a great level of catharsis. And I'm very moved when I read those comments that you post. Yeah.

No, I'm moved too. And I honestly, when I started the comedy journey, I didn't think much about it I thought I would do a few open mics my friends would come and that would be the beginning and the end of this journey yeah but since then of course it's taken its own life and trajectory but what I have discovered is that my people back home and especially my women the brown women of the world yeah don't know that they have a right to laugh oh my gosh they don't know that they have a right to laugh. Oh my gosh. They don't know that they have a right

to make fun of the world they come from and poke fun at their husbands and their mother-in-law. Because it's been going on the other way for a long time. Yes, I'd say so. There's a lot of men out there who have a lot to say about their nagging wives. Oh my gosh. And yet, none of the wives have really stepped up.

This is the first time they feel like they could do this, too. You trash your husband so hard in your act. Oh, well. And it's a riot. And it's like... I don't worry about it too much. Because you know what's going to happen, Mike? I'm going to become rich and famous, and then I'm going to upgrade.

I'm going to fool Hollywood with this. Oh, my God. That's what you do in this town. I'm so glad you're being so forthright about this yeah i know i told him too i'm like start looking because this is happening oh my gosh but you it's not like he's gonna have a problem his mom is waiting she thinks you know she's gonna convert his salary from dollars to rupees and take him out in the arranged market and he's gonna he's gonna land like a 20 year old miss

universe candidate he's gonna be fine let's just say part of your story it's completely extraordinary is you were either you were going to be in an arranged marriage yeah and you left or you would have been if you had stayed so my mom passed suddenly before I was 15. Like from being completely healthy to, you know, it's a very rare and crazy medical situation. And I was the youngest of four. And my dad decided the day after she died that I needed to get married. Yeah. He's like, I'm done parenting.

And honestly, as a parent today, having just survived the pandemic, now I do understand. If I had a fourth kid, I might say something like that. You know what I mean? Like, it's a lot. Life is a lot. Life is a lot. Life is a lot.

Zarna Garg said it. You heard it here. Life is a lot. It's true. And I never held against my dad. But at the time, I was a teenager. I was like, I don't want to get married. I was reading the Archies in India.

I was like, no one's getting married in Archies. They're all kissing each other. Everybody's fine. What's the big deal? And he's like, no, no, no. You either get married or you leave. And he thought he would scare me. Because in India, you were born, you're raised, you go to school.

Then your dad finds you a match and you get married. For the first time, I was exposed to this whole world where, you know, people were dating and having fun. And it wasn't all about getting married and having kids. So I really thought, you know, why am I not living that life? Right. And my dad didn't have much of an appetite for that kind of thinking. Yeah. And he was like, no, no, no, you're going to get arranged.

My siblings were all arranged early in life. Wow. That's the world I come from. And he goes, if you don't want to get arranged, you're going to get arranged. My siblings were all arranged early in life. That's the world I come from. And he goes, if you don't want to get arranged, you have to leave. No. And I, you know, when you're 15, that's the beauty of youth.

You think you're so invincible. Oh my gosh. I have so many friends. We're going to have pajama parties for years. Oh my gosh. So I left. And my friends, after two days, they're like, my mom thinks you need to go home. Oh my gosh, So I left. And my friends, after two days, they're like, my mom thinks you need to go home.

Oh my gosh, that's so funny. Because that's actually one of the conundrums of my show right now. The show's called The Old Man in the Pool. And people who listen to the show know it or are familiar with me talking about it. But it's all about aging and mortality. The audience that doesn't completely lock in the same way other people do is like 15 to 25. Because I think that that's the age where you think you're not going to die no and then when you're you're like 25 plus you start being like oh

at 15 you see the world old man and you're like oh that's a 28 year old man no you're absolutely right you know I know you didn't I mean my friend my one of my best friends from childhood the other and you're like, oh, that's a 28-year-old man. No, you're absolutely right. You know? No, you didn't. I mean, my friend, one of my best friends from childhood the other day brought up that when we were kids, his mom got breast cancer and it was awful and it was so scary. And the other day he goes, you know when my mom had breast cancer?

I go, oh, yeah. He goes, she was 38. Wow. I'm like, she was 30. Mind-blowing, right? Mind-blowing. I'm like, she was 30. Mind blowing, right? Mind blowing. I'm 43. Yeah.

Who's five years younger than I am now and I thought at the time, this is the oldest person we know. Like what? You know what's crazy? I did a one year training program at the Holocaust Museum

in New York City. Oh wow. And it was, it's a whole long story but I connected with the whole culture of it and you know dark phases in life take you to different places right and they my job at the end of that training was

to take school kids around the museum and explain to them what what the artifacts are and the stories and what it's a lot of world war ii stuff yeah so these kids asked how do you know all this and before i could say anything another kid jumped in and he goes, she was there. Oh, my God. She was there. No, I can't. This was 20 years ago. Zarna, I cannot take this story.

I was 20-something years old, and the kids were 15, 16, and I was like, what? And that kid meant it in all sincerity. That's completely amazing. So one of the things that's so cool is like, so I was in Chicago, you were in Chicago, you were playing, I want to say The Laugh Factory. Yeah, that's right. And it was like Sunday night. Yeah. It's like an off night. You completely sold it out. And I said to you, I go, I go, Zarna, have you ever played in Chicago before? And you're like, never. I go, you sold it out.

Like, I've been a road comic for 20 years. You got to realize how big a deal this is that you're selling out a club. And you said to me, and maybe we'll take this out if you're not comfortable with it, but you go, I have to. No, I have to. Yeah.

I'm completely comfortable saying it. No one is looking for this right no one's looking for a mother of three something mother of three immigrant woman with an accent and who like maybe makes weird jokes about work cultural references but i have to over deliver if i'm gonna have a career in this business and i understand and i don't i'm not i'm okay with it i take it up as a challenge. I'm totally okay with it. Yeah.

And what helps is that there's a lot of Indians. No, no, of course. You know, that helps me. Well, that was one of the first things I said to you when I saw that you were killing so hard. At the Comedy Cellar, I go, Zarna, when you go back to India, I ignorantly said this, I go,

you'll clean up because the population there is massive. And you said, I can't necessarily go back because the government doesn't want women there saying disparaging things about their husband and being disrespectful to their husbands. And of course, my mind is blown because I'm sort of ignorant to that. Well, you know, when I first started, my first open mic, I had no idea what was what and what's comedy, nothing.

Yeah. And I remember getting up on stage because I had watched other people do open mic right before me. Yeah. And I remember standing up there and saying, oh my God, white people do this? Because the thought that you stand up there and saying, oh my God, white people do this? Because the thought that you stand up there and trash your president and trash your husband,

your wife, whatever, and you're not even afraid at all, the thought had not occurred to me. No, it's so strange. And I'm in this world now, and I look Indian. Of course, I am Indian. I wear Indian clothes. I wear a bindi. People in India, you would take offense. She's become Western now. She thinks she's American now. Who told her she can speak like this? Anti-culture, there's culture police all over the place, right? So I'm very skeptical about my prospects of doing this live in India. Maybe there is room for it,

but I don't know. And I feel like when the stakes are kind of, we'll find out or you might be in jail. Oh my God, we'll find out or I'll be in jail. When you're looking at those kind of stakes, I'm like, I don't want to find out necessarily. That's absurd. find out necessarily. That's absurd. I read your daughter's college essay, which now she's at Stanford, she's doing great, but at the time, she wrote this college

essay that they printed, they published in the New York Times as one of the best college essays in the country. And I just found this so moving. This is your daughter, Zoya Garg. Yeah. My mom finds a baffling delight from drinking from glass hotel grade water dispensers. Even when three day old lemon rinds float in stale water, drinking from the dispenser remains luxurious. Last year for her birthday, I saved enough to buy a water dispenser for our

kitchen counter. However, instead of water, I filled it with handwritten notes encouraging her to chase her dreams of a career. As I grew older, I noticed that my mom yearned to pursue her passions and to make her own money. She spent years as a stay-at-home mom and limited our household chores as much as she could, taking the burden upon herself so that my brothers and I could take on our education. However, I could tell from her curiosity of and attitudes towards women that she envied their financial freedom and the self-esteem that must come with it. When I asked her about working again, she would tell me to focus on achieving the American dream

that I knew she had once dreamed for herself. tell me to focus on achieving the American dream that I knew she had once dreamed for herself. For years, I watched her effortlessly light up conversations with both strangers and family. Her empathy and ability to understand the needs, wants, and struggles of a diverse group of people empowered her to reach the hearts of every person at a dinner table, even when the story itself did not apply to them at all. She could make anyone laugh, and I wanted her to be paid for it. Quote, Mom, have you ever thought about being a stand-up comedian? She laughed at the idea, but then started wondering aloud about what she would joke about and how comedy shows were even booked.

As she began dreaming of a comedy career, the reality of her current life as a stay-at-home mom sank in. She began to cry and told me it was too late for her. I could not bear to watch her struggle between ambition and doubt. Her birthday was coming up. Although I already bought her a present, I realized what I actually wanted to give her was the strength to finally put herself first and take a chance. I placed little notes of encouragement inside the water dispenser. I asked my family and closest friends to do the same. These friends told her other friends, and eventually I had grown a network of supporters

who emailed me their admiration for my mom. From these emails, I handwrote 146 notes crediting all of these supporters that also believed in my mom. Some provided me with sentences, others with five paragraph long essays, yet each note was an iteration of the same sentiment. You are hilarious, full of life, and ready to take on the stage. On the day of her birthday, my mom unwrapped my oddly shaped present and saw the water dispenser I bought her. She was not surprised that she had hinted at it for many years, but then as she kept

unwrapping, she saw that inside the dispenser, there were these little notes that filled the whole thing. As she kept picking out and reading the notes, I could tell she was starting to believe what they said. She started to weep with her hands full of notes. She could not believe the support was real and that everyone knew she had a special gift and believed in her. Within two months, my mom performed her first set in a New York comedy club. Within a year, my mom booked a monthly headlining show at the nation's premier comedy club. I'm not sure what happened to the water dispenser, but I've read the notes with my mom countless times. They are framed and line the walls of her new office space that she rented with the profits

she made from working as a professional comedian. For many parents, their children's careers are their greatest accomplishment. But for me, my mom's is mine. Yeah, it's really emotional. To hear it in your voice, okay, this just became a sad podcast. in your voice too. Okay, this just became a sad podcast. It really speaks to the idea of supporting your friends and family in helping them achieve what they want to be and what they want to do. And it's, you know, for me, it's an inspiration for me and supporting my wife and daughter and what they want to do. And hopefully people hear this and think of it in relation to their own lives. Absolutely. And, you know, I encourage it.

I think my community has come out in big numbers to support me. Without them, I wouldn't have a comedy career. Every time, I didn't know what a bringer show was. But the first time a club told me, you need to bring five people or eight people or whatever. Yeah. I was like, but what will I do with the remaining 90? Yeah.

Because people in my world were so excited. Just to give context, a bringer show is when you have to essentially bring your own audience to the comedy club. Yeah, and usually people are stressed out about having to bring people. Yeah, and you had an outpouring of people. Because it's never been done. No Indian woman trashed her mother-in-law on stage. Women came out from across state lines everywhere.

It's funny because I, like, what is your family's reaction when you talk about them on stage? So my, they're all completely on board. My husband, my kids, they love it. Well, your husband's a riot. I mean, your kids are a riot. They're all in the videos on TikTok and Instagram.

Yeah, and it's everyday life that I capture with them. I'm yelling at them all day. That's my real day job. Yeah, yeah, yeah, real day job is yelling at you. He's yelling at them from morning to night. They thought it was fun. They were willing to do anything to support me so i was blessed in that way my husband was like you've done enough you know as an immigrant mother raising three kids alone in manhattan no family it's been a lot

so he was like i want you to do whatever you want to do and i'm here for you yeah and i thought oh boy does he not know what's about to happen yeah and we really didn't think it was gonna take off at this level like honestly we went in we one show at a time like okay we sold this one out all right well let's see what what happens next and it kind of just snowballed unexpectedly and now they're all so proud. They know, everybody knows that my jokes come from a place of love. Yeah. I love India. I love America. I'm not a refugee in America in that way that I hate where I came from.

I actually have a lot of love for the world that I came from. Yeah. And I think that that's what's made it a more pleasant journey for all involved. I actually get along with my mother-in-law in real life. That's really funny. But here's the thing. She does not speak much English. Yeah.

And at the beginning of this journey, she didn't really know what was what. And she would just like my posts on Facebook. Didn't really care, right? Now she's like, I got an, I, I, she got herself an agent. This is absurd. Because she thinks that I'm going to need her eventually in my stories. Oh, my gosh.

And how is she going to be a part of this? And now she's texting me, like, make fun of my sister, make fun of my, you know, my neighbor or whatever. Like, for the first time, Indian women. If I tell you how many joke ideas I get in a day yeah you wouldn't even believe it yes what's this what's the most shocking reaction you get from your comedy from audience members people on social media I mean it's I feel like it's not right for me to say it but it's like absolute delight oh that's nice people are just like wait we understand this world you know I make a joke about I've never said I love you to my husband yeah yeah I really thought when I wrote that joke

and when I put it out on TikTok that I was the only one who didn't say it oh my god that's so fun and millions of people have come out of the woodwork across cultures across oh my gosh age demographics who are all and then I saw that piece that you do in your show. I talk about how my parents don't say I love you. Oh my God, it's like a real thing. You know, if you think of Hollywood and pop culture and stories that you read, I love you, I love you. You see it all over the place.

But then you hear real life stories. And you're like, oh, you're not the only one who doesn't do that. Yeah, it's interesting. My mom's Irish. My dad's Italian. The people who relate to that the most in my life are people who, and they're second, third generation,

but the people who relate to the I love you thing in my show, the most are from people whose parents are immigrants. Right, yeah. I don't know why that is. I think, what is that, a caginess? Is it like withholding for fear of revealing yourself? I don't even know what. I think love makes you so vulnerable.

Yeah. And if when you're an immigrant, you're already so vulnerable. Yeah. Everything is new. Everything is alien. You're right. You know, you're afraid of vulnerable. Yeah. Everything is new. Everything is alien. You're right. You know, you're afraid of everything.

I do believe that's part of why you don't see so many immigrant comics is because you have to own the language. Yeah. On that stage. Yeah. There are times when people heckle me and I have no idea what they just said. That's so funny. Because I don't even know what. Oh, my God.

They probably were trying to insult me, but I didn't get it. Because I've seen you've toured a bit with Veer Das, who's huge. Huge, number one in India and huge. Oh, is he number one in India? Number one by far. No one comes close. And so you haven't toured with him in India. You've toured with him in the States.

Yeah. And, I mean, he's playing, like, thousands and thousands of seats. Absolutely. And what are those crowds like? Are they different from your crowds? And I mean, he's playing like thousands and thousands of seats. And what's like, what are those crowds like? Are they different from your crowds? I would say a little different because he does have a very established audience. Yeah. I mean, he has four Netflix specials out, like the volume of work he's done.

It's a little different also because he's younger. You know, I do the whole mom thing. It draws a different crowd. But our pairing was seamless. When we did shows together, the audience loved it. Again, his audience too has never seen an Indian woman do what I do. So it's like sometimes it's a state of shock. They're like, is that his mom? Like, you know, when I walk out on stage.

That is so funny. So like they've never seen that before it's like what is that in you that made you feel like is it comics you watched is it artists you watch that made you have the confidence to be like you know what I'm just gonna say whatever I want no no I think my kids ganged up on me. I think my kids ganged up on me. For 15 years, I was yelling at them, try something new. Try something new. You have to have an open mind. And then when my daughter went down this whole rabbit hole of you should do comedy, they were all like, well, are you too scared to try something new?

Oh, my gosh. And I honestly don't think about comedy in that way because that would be scary. I think like I'm hosting a dinner party every time I'm on stage. How would it be if we were at my house and what would I say? Whether it's five people or 5,000 people, I don't really overthink it

because then I would get scared. I think what you're hitting on is something that I think a lot of younger comics don't always get, which is the idea that like comedy in its simplest form is one person talking to two or three or more people. That's all it is. Yeah. And so a lot of times you'll see comics starting out and they'll be shouting and they'll be projecting out. And it's like, no, you don't have to do that there's a microphone you know what i mean but like i feel like you've you got that pretty fast i mean how long have

you been doing comedy maybe about four years four years that's so fast yeah it's four years in the traditional new york world of comedy yeah the open mic the go here the go there the club the bringer show that's four years but some version of this i've been doing my whole life yeah and i think that's why i'm not so overwhelmed by it right because i actually when my dad put me out on the streets the one reason I had a home or a place to sleep was I made people laugh. Wow. Somebody's mom would be like, okay, bring her in for Diwali dinner because she'll make people laugh. Humor, you know, humor really is a weapon.

Humor is a medicine. Humor is a strategy. Yeah. And I've used it my whole life. This is the thing we do in the show called the slow round okay what's your earliest memory in your kid of my own childhood yeah yeah my earliest memory is riding around in a big yellow jeep yeah i mean i i was born into extreme affluence in India. Oh, wow. So that's a whole another world that you rarely see here in the media or in the pop culture. Yeah. So I was born in a lot.

I had my own car, my own Jeep and my own chauffeur. Really? Yes. You know, honestly, the air conditioning and I shouldn't even say, should I say this? The air conditioning in my house wasn't good enough. So I would like hang out in my car and like just make him drive me endlessly just so I could stay cool while I read my Archie's comics.

Oh my gosh, no kidding. Wait, so what did your dad, your mom passed away when you were a teenager, what did your dad do that brought you so much affluence? Well, he had a business. He himself was a real rags to riches story. He was a lawyer. So he's like a self-made self-made guy he was he was

very wealthy by the time I was born I was the youngest of four yeah he was a lawyer in India very educated and you know he did well for himself he just was tired of being a parent yeah oh my gosh that's so funny. So that was your earliest memory. And then do you have a smell that you remember from childhood? Yeah. So there are these flowers that are local to India, but I see, oh, somehow like all the American companies have the scent. These jasmine, you know, because America, I don't know how they get it.

But jasmine flowers, my mom used to grow them all over like our house. So it smells, I feel like, is a strong memory. I think it's one of the last to go as you age. And I certainly, when I think of my mom, think of the flowers that she used to grow all over the house. That's so sweet. Do you have a skill that people don't know about? So I don't think a lot of people know

I'm a New York State licensed lawyer. Oh my gosh, you've got to be kidding me. No, I am. What cannot you do? I am, and they also might not know, I was really bad at it. I was so bad, I couldn't keep track. You would not want me representing you.

I would go to the judge myself. I'm like, Your Honor, my client has robbed the liquor store. No, wait, he has not robbed the liquor store. No, wait, he has not robbed the liquor store. And sometimes I would be like, did you? Oh my gosh. You know, I had a moment of like, maybe this is not a good job for me.

That is a riot. So before, so you were a mom of three, you were an Indian immigrant, and you were a lawyer. Yeah. Bad lawyer, you claim. But I mean, that's unbelievable. You're doing that at the same time?

You're a mom at the same time? You're a full-time lawyer? Well, I stopped practicing with the kids. You know how that happened. It was impossible. After a point, the gymnastics required to run that life. Sure. With my husband having a job, me trying to work,

and the kids, and trying to keep them alive. Like, no lofty goals there. Wow. We weren't willing any spelling bees, let me tell you. We were just like, did he eat yesterday? Yes. Fine, he ate yesterday, we're good, let's go. How old are your kids now?

So one's in college, so she's probably 19. She's 19. I have a 16-year-old son, so handsome. I can show you a photo of him. Oh my gosh. So handsome, he's the prince. And then, you know, and then I have the spare, my 10-year-old.

The spare. The spare. Come on. Oh, he's, you know, I joke about it. I'm like, you know, I have a third. I forget about him sometimes. And that joke resonates. I think I was the spare in my family.

I was youngest of four. Oh, four, forget it. There's no hope for you. Yeah, I was like, you know, I think the term sometimes is like an oops, baby. I don't think there was a plan. I wasn't part of God's plan. I wasn't part of my parents' plan. And I think there were times where I think they forgot that they had a fourth child. Yeah, I mean, you know.

Which is good for me. It was good for me. Listen, that movie, Home Alone. Yeah. I was like, yeah, that would have been me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And no one would have realized. The whole vacation could have been over and they would be like, yeah, that would have been me. And no one would have realized. The whole vacation could have been over and they would be like, wait, no, it's all good.

Yeah, yeah, no, things are good. Things are good. Did you have any nicknames growing up, really good or really bad? So India can be brutal. Yeah. You know, towards women especially. So like if you're a little overweight, they'll just call you moaty, fat. Yeah.

They'll just say it. So what gets people canceled here? It's the kind of stuff I feel like, oh my God, these people are so sweet. They don't even know it. Please don't leave the borders because you're going to find out a world. Oh, wow. That you're not ready for. So you think it's tougher there?

Oh, 100%. That's interesting. not ready for so you think it's tougher there oh a hundred percent i mean and there's no you know here you think a lot about did that hurt somebody's feelings and said in india they would just be like yeah but that's the truth right everything is excused under the guise of but that's the truth right and especially going towards the women so no woman is gonna be like well you're you know what's that bare belly are you pregnant man right you know but they would never do that it goes one way and uh you know like a lot of indian practically every indian woman i know i had nicknames that correlated with whatever you know yeah i mean here for example i'll give you an example skin color

such a big topic here right like racism Like racism is a thing, whatever. In India, nothing. You, oh my God, you went out in the sun? Did you get that dark or is that my glaucoma? Oh my gosh. Did you get glaucoma? I mean, my grandmother, that was her showing me love. So what's the best piece of advice

anyone's ever given you that worked? Okay, I'm gonna stay in the comedy realm. And my friend Tehran, who is a comedian in L.A., Tehran Van Gashree, he once told me, he goes, every show is a bringer show. Yes. You know, you need to not. Yes. Do you know what I mean?

That is so smart. You have to put your life out there and fill every seat. And that is the job of your comedy as a comedian. And you have to stop thinking. They asked me to. It's a door deal. It's a this deal. Everything is a door deal at the end of the day.

Yeah, yeah. You know, so. That's really fascinating. I feel like in the comedy world, making my piece with the idea that that's just part of my job has really helped me build the business. That's really interesting because just to contextualize this concept of a bringer show, every show is a bringer show. Bringer show is when you have to bring your own audience. And so a lot of times you'll see people on the street and they're handing out cards saying, please come to my comedy show. What they're really doing is if you bring the card, it says a number on it, and it means that you count as the bringer for that person,

and they get closer to their 10 people or their 20 people or 50 or whatever they're obliged to bring. What your friend is saying is essentially that's every show. That's all of us all the time. And I think that's such an astute comment, not just with comedy, but with everything. Everything. Everything's an uphill battle.

100%. Everything is always jogging uphill in every field. And I think, like, the people, you know, I made the movie Don't Think Twice about these characters who are in an improv group, and a lot of them are frustrated because they're not getting the success that they want. But in some ways, it's like the people who often complain about the success that they're not getting, it's like, well, if you thought of everything as a bringer show, this wouldn't

be your challenge. Right. Because the people who are succeeding in these mega ways are thinking of their entire craft as being, this is going to be hard. Right. And I got to bring it so hard. I mean, the famous thing from Steve Martin's book, Born Standing Up, is you have to be undeniable.

A hundred percent. I couldn't agree more. And I think it's true for everybody. And I think embracing that actually makes the journey easier. This is the part where we talk about new jokes, new material. I was actually working on this this week, which is I get off on the subway stop around the corner here in Brooklyn, and the buildings in our neighborhood, my neighborhood, are like from the 1700s, 1800s.

I believe some of them were built by the Three Little Pigs. Like with Three Little Pigs contracting, we built you a house, made a straw, made a sticks, made a bricks. We recommend the bricks. But look, you can have a straw house. It's got walls. Not for nothing, every now and then there's this wolf. He shows up, he goes, I'm going to blow your house down.

You're thinking, is this wolf for real? But you know sometimes he does and so ultimately we recommend the bricks so that's like a new that's a new joke I'm working on

I love it and couldn't be more accurate you grew up with three little pigs of course I did I'm telling you is that international

three little pigs it's international we just interpret it differently oh interesting so same fairy tales that you guys read to your kids here.

We read to our kids. We're like, you know, that's not going to happen, right? That's so funny. Yeah. You know that's not going to happen, right? Here, they're like,

happily ever after. That's the aspiration. We're like, let's get a visa to America. Oh, my gosh. Indoor plumbing and a work visa. We're good.

Oh, my gosh. Here, there's a white horse and a prince charming. We're good. Oh my gosh. Here there's a white horse and a prince charming. We have a white horse too, but he's a rental at the weddings. Oh my gosh. Do you have any jokes you're working on? Half-baked things? Have ideas? Yeah, so the big piece that I'm working on now,

and I think you'll relate to it and your audience might too, is that American-born Indian comics, comics of indian heritage but they're born and raised here there's a lot of them many of them are very successful and i've been watching them for a few years and and actually it was a moment of epiphany for me because one time one of their favorite topics seems to be complaining about their overbearing Indian parents, you know, right? And I remember watching one of them and thinking, oh, my God, he's complaining about me. Oh, my God. Right?

So now I'm working on a rebuttal to all the big complaints. Like, oh, our parents make us go to medical school. Yeah, we don't want you working at Dunkin' Donuts. Oh, we weren't allowed to go to medical school. Yeah, we don't want you working at Dunkin' Donuts. Like, oh, we weren't allowed to go to summer camp. That's a big one. We're not allowed to go to summer camp because no Indian kid is allowed to go to summer. I'm like, yeah, and you didn't get molested.

Oh my God. So be quiet. We're not allowed to marry who we want. No, you can't marry the girl with the neck tattoo. Oh my God, that's so funny. So I'm working on so funny so i'm working on those bits and i'm working on a proper rebuttal to the to that whole world and genre of jokes that's a brilliant idea even just the zoom out of that is such a great idea which is you're taking

the status quo of a field of jokes which is like second gen maybe i want to say second generation indian comics and you're saying well i'm going to come at you from the first generation right of jokes, which is like second gen, maybe I want to say second generation Indian comics. And you're saying, well, I'm going to come at you from the first generation. Right. And then I'm going to have a rebuttal. I'm so tired of hearing them go on and on whining and no one saying anything as if like, what? Are you kidding me?

Yeah. Do you know how many CEOs in the world are Indian right now? Yes. Like Microsoft, Google, Twitter even. You name it. I mean, there's a few white guys. I can't think of them right now. But so you think those CEOs like, you know,

were swinging on a tire all summer? No, their parents did something right. Yeah, yeah. And I am now preparing an entire rebuttal for that. Oh, I love that. Because I can't stand it. No more complaining. Stop the whining.

That's a riot. I'm working on this thing about mildew and mold, which is that... You're really in that headspace right now. The apartment collapse headspace. My apartment thing has been such a debacle because I live in this old, old building. because I live in this old, old building and I'm trying to build this whole piece about how one night I'm reading to my daughter and my wife walks in and she goes,

do you smell that? And I go, which thing? Our apartment contains a symphony of smells. She goes, mildew. And I said, I can't smell mildew because I grew up in Massachusetts, which is a state that's made of mildew. And I said, I can't smell mildew because I grew up in Massachusetts, which is a state that's made of mildew. To me, mildew smells like fresh cut grass and mold smells like watermelon.

And of course, you have to know the difference between mold and mildew because they actually have very different threat levels. Mildew is mold's laid back cousin. Mildew is like, I think it's funny when people cough and mold's like i'm gonna kill somebody you know and and and and so jen goes i the una's bedroom has mildew she can't sleep here and i i say so well i can sleep in the mildew bed because sometimes I like to be the hero and we call so so in our house completely true my reputation in the house is that I'm I'm like the I'm gonna be the hero of the scenario okay my daughter's seven I'm always trying to like all right I'm gonna step up so my daughter started

calling me mildew man she was like mildew man because all you need to create a superhero is um a noun and a gender that's all a superhero is mildew man and uh yeah that's sort of a half-baked thing that i've been kicking around lately i love how i don't even know what a watermelon tastes like. Where did you get that? Like the smell of watermelon? Taste. I guess taste. Did you?

Okay. Oh, yeah. I guess you're right. No, no. It's smell. Because it was in the piece when you said it smells like water. I thought you said smells. You're absolutely right. Yeah, no.

Yeah. To me, it smells like fresh cutcut grass and mold is like watermelon. Yeah, I think of watermelon as having a smell, but you might be right. It might be a very faint smell. I'm just thinking of camp. I feel like I have all these camp memories. That's the thing, yes, of course. Wherever there's sliced watermelons.

Maybe it's, I don't know. Maybe the joke should be like, you know, mildew smells like fresh-cut grass and mold smells like a barbecue. You know what I mean? Maybe it should be more vivid to like the summer camp smell versus like what you're saying. It's like watermelon doesn't really have a strong scent. But I don't know because barbecue is such a strong smell. Right.

So I think maybe watermelon is better because it's kind of generic because i don't think i could how did how did she know how did jen know it was is mildew actually it's a good question i think it's because she's sensitive to it she i might get into this in a bit but i don't have a joke for it yet jen has a stronger sense of smell than i do and so in a marriage i think one of the things you have to negotiate is if someone has a stronger sense of something, you actually have to defer to that person. Because they're the one who feels it the most. If she goes, I'm allergic to mildew, you go, all right, well, we're going to do that. You're not going to sleep near the mildew.

But I'm okay with mildew. You know, I can live through it. I grew up in Massachusetts. Like I said, there's a lot of mildew. I mean, literally, like, I can't. State of Massachusetts in a state of shock right now. Exactly. No, they know.

Oh, they know what they did. They know what they did. No, it's, no, Massachusetts is, I've talked to my brother Joe about this countless times. And I've talked to my mom about it last week. I go, Mom, it smelled like mildew growing up, right? You know, like, that's a real thing. And she goes thing and she goes oh yeah she goes always our basement was filled full of water always i mean like i wrote this joke recently that i don't think make make it in it's like when we were kids

for our birthday we get dehumidifiers you know i mean like it was so much of a part of our existence was this like sitting water in our house. I don't know why exactly. Yeah. So, yeah, so I'm working on that. I'm also, you know, I don't know if you have this with your jokes, but it's like I'm navigating the sort of perspectives of the joke. So like my original perspective on that joke about mildew is that my wife came in and goes,

there's mildew in here. I think you should sleep in Una's bed with the mildew and Una and I will sleep in our bed. And my joke was, I go, good talk. I go, because that's how we decide things around our house is that someone other than me comes up with a plan and then there's no deliberation and then that's how we decide things around our house, is that someone other than me comes up with a plan, and then there's no deliberation, and then that's what we do. And then Jen was listening to the show and giving me notes

on the Old Man and the Pool show, and she goes, that is not what happened. And I'm like, that's how I remember it? And she goes, no, what happened was you volunteered. And I go, well, I volunteered because you said there's mildew. And then you left a gap of space of silence afterwards. And so it's like, well, what am I supposed to do? I'm either supposed to say like, okay, you know, we'll all not sleep there.

You know what I mean? Like there was no move. It feels like you were gently guided i was gently guided might be the funniest way to turn the phrase and be honest to all parties because i find you know when jen and i did the last show my last show was called the new one and a lot of it was us piecing together our shared truth. Because, you know, I always say, like, you know, when I'm on stage, that's my side of the story. Right.

You know, her side of the story might be this. My dad's side of the story might be this. My side of the story is this. But I do try to respect what her side of the story is, and sometimes it's funnier. Yeah. Sometimes it's funnier to be like, well, Jen's point of view is that this happened.

Mine is this happened. And some version of those two things occurred. But you're a better man than me for sure. I'm like, no, this is it. This is the story. You don't need to ask my husband. But I think your persona is such that like people get that it's definitively your perspective.

I don't know. There's something about like the way your storytelling where we're almost doing the math in our head of like, I'm not sure that's what happened, but I'm going to go with this because it's funny. Yeah, I know. You know, I do make a joke about how people do ask me. They're like, how can you be so old fashioned and strict? You're a comedian. Right. Yeah. But I tell the audience all the time. I'm like, my kids don't know I do this. That's so funny. I leave my house in scrubs. I mean, for real, my LinkedIn profile says Mount Sinai.

Oh, my gosh. And then I make that joke and I come out of the room and do you know how many people line up and ask me, are you a doctor? Oh, my gosh. Do your kids really not know? Oh, that's so funny. And then, of course, you know, we just read the essay from your daughter. I have how many views on TikTok? If I had maybe the world's dumbest kids, they might have picked up on what I'm doing by now.

Do you have other jokes you're working on? Let me think which one I want to talk about. So, you know, racism is a thing like you know so much love in america i get a lot of love a lot from all over my community and now the bigger comedy base that i've built has been great it's a little bit of hate a little bit of racism is a part of living here you know so recently on one of my uh i posted a show flyer about a show i was doing and somebody commented that's gonna be a smelly show and my followers got all upset they're like you can't say that and that's this guy didn't back down he doubled down he's like you can't

smell it because you're all indian and um you know, I was like trying to figure out what to do about this. And I understand this is a trope that Indian people have lived with for a long time. Yeah. And because of guys like him, we wear so much deodorant, we're all going to get Alzheimer's.

Oh my gosh. So I was trying to figure out what to do with this guy and people are going back and forth in the comment section, and then he goes holla to Allah. I'm like, first of all, I'm Hindu, Hindi, so he's not a Jeopardy champion. Right, he's not a Jeopardy champion. Second of all, the only reason he's still alive

is because being Hindu, I'm not even allowed to kill a fly. And then I thought, you know, maybe I should block him. Or everybody's like, block him, block him, block him. My followers. And I was about to block him and I'm like,

but to lose all that engagement. Oh my God. You can't. As a social media creator, come on, Mike, you get that, right? Yeah, the engagement is what feeds the algorithm and you get more views. You got views.

I can't do that. That's so funny. That is so funny. So you know what I ended up doing? You want to know what I did to resolve this? Yeah. I took screenshots of all his comments. Yes, and you post those.

And I posted them on Twitter. Oh, my gosh. And I tagged Salman Rushdie. Oh, really? Mindy Kaling. Okay. And the Jonas Brothers. Oh, my gosh. And I tagged Salman Rushdie. Oh, really? Mindy Kaling. Okay. And the Jonas Brothers. Oh my gosh.

By the time their fans were done with this guy, I had 2,000 new followers. That's a crazy story. Did Mindy engage with it? Her fans. Her fans? I don't need them to engage with it. Literally just her fans? Her fans.

That's wild. Because once you tag her and there's activity going on that comment, her fans are seeing it, right? And the Jonas brothers, they love that Priyanka. And Nick Jonas is India's son-in-law. That is amazing. And then I ended up getting a whole fan following on Twitter. You conquered the scenario.

You won. You beat that bout of racism. And do you know how that ended? For real, this is all true. You know how that ended? The guy was like, social media is so mean. The guy who originated it. Isn't that the greatest?

So we end with a segment called working it out for a cause is there an organization that you think is doing a particularly good job right now and i will donate to them and then i'll link to them in the show notes and encourage people to donate as well absolutely i have my favorite organization i would love to give them a shout out it It's called Comedy Cures. Okay. And they bring comedy to very, very ill people from severely ill to terminally ill. I work with them. We've done live shows for them. That's great. We've done Zoom shows for them.

Through the pandemic, you can imagine the amount of demand we dealt with. Yeah, of course. The woman who established the organization and runs it to this day is a stage four cancer survivor of 20 plus years and a comedian herself. So we really, when I first started and I was new at, very new at it, I had decided if I were to give back, how would I give back? And I,

I've been working with her since and I love it. I mean mean do you perform so do you perform like in hospitals and cancer wards and things like that absolutely and i do it on zoom or in real life and a lot of times like because we live in new york for example people come from india and like from from asia they're here for treatment like at memorial sloan kettering or something for a very very rare disease or whatever their complicated situation is yeah oftentimes they're here all by themselves because their family members can't afford to be here it's expensive of course to live here you know so i get called to just be like can you just go and like cheer them up for half an hour just hold their hand and also because i speak hindi i speak gujarati i

speak all these languages even though i don't do comedy in those languages yeah there's a familiarity yes you can say a few words in those languages to sort of because this person has been alone in a very difficult situation so i had done all i've done zoom funerals it's crazy don't even i did a zoom funeral the first one i got i was I was like, what am I even going to do? But it went so well. Zarnagarg is not only a lawyer, she's also a comedian. She's also a saint. That's my conclusion.

Right. That's where this was all going. Get that on the tombstone. Until the sex tape comes out. Working it out, because it's not done. Working it out, because there's no hope. That's going to do it for another episode of Working It Out. That's Zarna Garg. She is so cool, such a fascinating person.

I think she's going to have just a massive career, just a really, really interesting joke writer and person. You can follow her on Instagram and TikTok, at Zarnagarg. You can find her tour dates. She's touring all over the country, zarnagarg.com. Our producers are working it out,

or myself, along with Peter Salamone and Joseph Birbiglia, consulting producer Seth Barish, associate producer Mabel Lewis, sound mix by Shubh Suran, sound and video recording by Chuck Staten. Thanks to my consigliere, Mike Berkowitz, as well as Marissa Hurwitz and Josh Upfall. Special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers

for their music. And of course, a special thanks to my wife, the poet, Jay Hopestein. We wrote a book. It's called The New One. It is a mix of poetry and comedy, painfully true stories from a reluctant dad with poems by J. Hope Stein.

And of course, Jen's book is going to be in the fall. It's going to be coming out. It's called Little Astronaut. It comes out in September. You can pre-order that, or you can follow her at jhopestein on Instagram. As always, a very special thanks to my daughter, Una, who created a radio fort made of pillows. This was way back two years ago when we started the podcast, and we didn't know how to make a podcast.

And Kate Polinsky taught me and my daughter, Una, how to position pillows in such a way that the sound is pristine. pillows in such a way that the sound is pristine. Thanks most of all you who have listened and have followed us on this long, long journey that continues on. You have told your friends. You have told your enemies. I know that you were in

some kind of conflict with your enemy, with your neighbor, where you're arguing about who's allowed to have cable and internet wiring on the roof of your building. And you said, hold it, hold it a second there, feller. I want to tell you about a podcast I'm listening to.

It's a comedian and other comedians working on new material. I know everyone has a podcast these days, but this one's different. Thanks a lot, everybody. We're working it out. See you next time. Everyone has a podcast these days, but this one's different. Thanks a lot, everybody. We're working it out. See you next time.