Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 77. Joe Birbiglia: Who Doesn’t Like Free Stuff?

Episode Date: July 25, 2022

Mike welcomes his longtime collaborator and lifelong brother Joe Birbiglia. They discuss what it’s like to work together as family—from differentiating between work and family phone calls to Joe being mistaken for Mike at the merch table. Joe explains the differences between “Joe Bags” the character and Joe in real life and Joe and tells his story of trying to break into the comedy world in the early 2000s, crossing paths with The Onion and The Daily Show. Plus, a fly-on-the-wall joke writing session that mirrors the way Mike and Joe write together in real life.Please consider donating to The Rhode Island Community Food Bank

What's different about the Joey Bag of Donuts, Joe Birbiglia character in the specials and stuff, and you in real life? Yeah. And what's real and what's not real? I mean, look, we all like free stuff. Yes. Welcome back to Working It Out. That is the voice, of course, of my brother, the great Joe Birbiglia, Joseph Birbiglia. He and I, we've been brothers since my birth. He's a few years older than me. And he's a hilarious person.

He's a great writer. He was a screenwriter on my film Sleepwalk With Me. He's the producer of, writer. He was a screenwriter on my film Sleepwalk with me. He's the producer of, you know, all of my comedy specials and my movies. He runs my production company. We've worked together for years and years and years and years. And we have a great conversation today. I actually, I think neither of us knew how it would go. We were both like, what will this be? I don't know. And I actually think it does two things for me. One thing is it's an insight into sort of like comedy writing as a profession and sort of how hard it is to break into and the craft of comedy writing and how one might attack it. And then the other thing is the working it out section of the show

where we're working out new jokes. You're listening to two people who work out jokes together all the time. And so it's a little bit less sort of presentational, sort of what people would want you to think is how they work out jokes. It's a little bit more like how we work out jokes. It's very straight ahead. So it's a lot of fun. how we work out jokes.

It's very straight ahead. So it's a lot of fun. There's a bunch of new updates in the touring space. My show right now is in Los Angeles at the Mark Taper Forum. Then I'm going to be in Pittsburgh. I'm going to be in Cleveland. I'm going to be in Toronto for four shows, Atlanta for two shows, Cincinnati, Columbus, Detroit, Nashville, Mesa, Arizona, Salt Lake City, and more.

It's all on Burbiggs.com. Join the mailing list. And what's so funny about this fall tour is that I crowdsourced it through TikTok and Instagram, I basically said, just put in the comments where you want me to go. And almost verbatim, almost one for one, based on how many people upvoted those specific cities, I called my agent and said, let's go to these cities. So I'm excited to show up in those cities with my show. It is called The Old Man and the Pool. And enjoy my conversation with the great Joseph Birbiglia.

I think the burning question everyone wants to know is, are you going to steal all my money like Dan Cook's brother? It is unfortunate that other people in my role have crashed and burned, let's say. Yeah. Such as that. He's a criminal. He's a criminal.

People want to dig into that. And I feel bad for Dane that this happened. I'm so sorry, Dane, if you're hearing this. Awful story. Yeah. He worked with his brother all these years. Brother stole, like, I want to say millions of dollars and then ended up in jail. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, it's like your worst nightmare because it's your brother. I understand, yes. I understand you're speaking on behalf of the Brother Society. It was our father who was very nervous about us working together because of family and business.

But yeah, no, I've been with you since 2006. So, so far, so good. I was thinking about today. It's the longest job I've ever had in my 2006. So, so far, so good. I was thinking about today. It's the longest job I've ever had in my life. So just to bring people up to speed, like Joe and I have this really unique relationship in the sense that we're brothers. And then Joe introduced me to comedy when I was very young.

I mean, seventh and eighth grade, you were writing parody issues of your comedy newspaper. You, I was sort of looking over your shoulder, and I was intrigued because you were intrigued. And then I went on to write parody issues of my high school newspaper. And then when I was in high school, you were in college writing at Middlebury.

You were writing what was called The Krampus, which is a parody of The Campus newspaper. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. And it was very popular, and Yeah. And it was very popular. And the improv group there was very popular. It was like, it had Jason Manzoukas and Jessica Sinclair. Oh, a very talented group.

I wasn't, I mean, I wasn't in that group. No, I know. But I mean, your college had a lot of talented people. It was a small school. Yeah, fertile ground for comedy talent. And then the other person, all-star from your school is Rodney Rothman. That's right, yeah.

And he was in, I want to say, Otter Nonsense, the improv crew. Absolutely, yeah. With that crew. And then Jeff Buschel was a comedy writer. Yeah, my good friend. Ran on to write a bunch of films and TV. He was working with you at your parody newspaper.

Yes. And that became a huge part of your college life. It really was, yeah. And then when I went to college, I joined the improv group. So we had this sort of like similar trajectory. And then when I got out of college, I would say like the thing that's different

between you and I, we're both comedy writers. The thing, the difference, I always describe it as I have a little more delusion, a little bit more like fearlessness in relation to being like, you know, I'm just going to ask this person if i can write comedy for them or whatever yes absolutely i'm definitely much more practical and it's fair to say and and you're and obviously you're the performer right i never right i never was bitten by a performing bug or really felt the need to be on

stage right and then when you got out of school, you had so many near-gets of a comedy writing career. Like, you applied to Conan, you almost got it. You came in third. You got a lot of the, and I've heard so many stories like this before.

It was just like, you got a lot of the, hey man, we'd love to hire you, but right now we're looking for someone who's XYZ. And like, that was you. Very painful. I had like a lot of gigs.

I had some exciting things and some near misses. One very notably was Jon Stewart was just starting at The Daily Show. Yeah. And they were switching their executive producer. And I did a writing submission, and somehow I got in with their executive producer's assistant. And I remember she emailed me and said, Madeline Smithberg is reading your submission. This with the executive producer's assistant and I remember she emailed me and said, Madeline Smithberg is reading your submission.

This is the executive producer. Is reading your submission for tonight's show and laughing hysterically on The Daily Show. And I'm just like, oh my God. Oh my God. This is like 2001 or something? Yeah, right about then. Yeah, maybe pre-9-11, maybe 2000, Jon Stewart came in.

And I was like, it's all happening. I'm going to be writing The Daily Show. So devastating. It just didn't happen. And, you know. You also had this weird in-between thing, I remember. I don't know if you're comfortable talking about this, but where you were like working at The Daily Show

either as like an assistant. Oh, I was a PA. PA. Yeah. And then you would get looped in to like pitch assistant or like PA. Yeah. And then you would get looped in to like pitch ideas. I know. To, with writers.

And then they would kind of be like, and then you'd be rolling. You'd be like, oh, this is going well. I know. And then someone would come in and be like, actually get out of here. Yes. Like we don't want you here pitching ideas. I was, well, what had happened is I tried to be the writer's assistant. Yes. Put on the record.

And they're like, oh, we had to hire another person who has been a writer's assistant, but we'll make you a PA. Yeah. But at the time, and even to this day, even though I'm more practical than you, you know, I'm not always super organized. So I was not a great PA. Right. But as the PAs were invited to creative pitch meetings,

and I was pitching in my first week things that didn't get filmed but were being considered. Yeah. And so then you get pulled aside. There's a lot of sharp elbows in television, in advertising, in entertainment. I like that term. Right? Sure.

And you get pulled over and they say, you know, you're not really a production assistant. And I was like, I know I'm not a production assistant. Oh, my gosh. I know. Will you make me a not a production assistant oh my gosh I know will you make me a writer already oh my gosh

so it happens yeah that's so tough and then the other one was with The Onion that's a fun one yeah so you pitch you were pitching

to The Onion this was before honestly this was before The Onion blew up correct The Onion was in Madison, Wisconsin

yeah they were like a cult favorite fake newspaper, parody newspaper. People who knew comedy knew them. Yes. It was like one of those, if you know it, you know it kind of things.

And you were one of the people who was like, well, I'm going to just try to go to them. So you were pitching stuff to them. And not only, yeah, I really kind of took a cue from you and really it's sort of a fake it till you make it. I submitted headlines, sold them a headline for $20 that was published. Wow.

And I was like, oh, this is my only lead in entertainment. Yeah. So I have a friend who's at the University of Wisconsin. I am going to come up with a reason why I have to go see her. And this is her, this random friend from high school. Classic Mike Verbiglia move. I'm going to take a flight to Chicago, take a bus to Madison, tell these people, you know what, guys?

I'm going to be in town. Would it be okay if I come by the office? Yeah. It was what I did with Jim Gaffigan, almost identical. Right? You got to do these things. And I end up meeting just the most talented writers at The Onion. Okay.

I find myself in a writer's room, you know, with Todd Hanson, Carol Kolb, Maria Schneider, John Crewson, and these guys, and they're letting me pitch, and we're pitching, and it's just absolutely fantastic. And you're like 23 years old. Yeah, I think so, maybe 24.

It's unbelievable. It was a dream. It was really fantastic. And I don't know, you know what, I will say, and I think it's useful for this forum, is listening to these guys pitch their ideas, their ideas were terrible.

That's interesting. You know? I mean, not all of them. Right. Like, they were panning for gold. And there was a super supportive group. Because you read The Onion, and it's so polished and perfect. Yes.

And you're like, you don't realize it comes from a place of, like, half-baked ideas and terrible ideas. And then as they pan for gold and like help each other dunk and like you're that you realize it all comes together it's just absolutely amazing yeah that was there's a there's a famous this american life episode that people should listen to if they're interested in this kind of writer's room concept where they go into the writer's room of the onion yeah and they record like a few hours of it yeah and you can hear some of the stuff's gold and some of it's not a lot.

I mean, most of it's not. Yeah. And just how much stuff they go through to get to like five headlines. Right, that are just brilliant. Yeah. What was the, you got one in, right? Yes.

What was the one that you got in? What was it? So my headline, which I think is in the Smithsonian now, is, no, it was Taco Bell combines five ingredients in a new way. It's very funny. Thank you.

And so that was so exciting. Simple, simple and funny. To get that acceptance email, hey, Joe, we looked through your ideas and we're publishing this. Send us your 1099. We're going to send you 20 bucks. Yeah.

It was very exciting. So then you took a more stable job still in creative, but in the ad agency world. Yeah, I think what gets frustrating for a lot of creatives like myself at that time, and at any time, is you look at New York City, you want a writing job at a late night show, and there's 32 jobs in the city. And if you don't have one, you still have to pay the bills.

And so my, not mantra, but my thinking was, I want to be using my brain creatively. And how do I do that? And so I went the advertising route. Yeah, I feel like that was a lot of my goal early on too, was just sort of like, before wanting to create comedy, I was like, I just want to use my brain. That's right.

We all have these brains. Right. And if you have a comedically sensibility brain, you're like, I'd like to use this somehow. That's right. How can I put this to work? Yeah. And so advertising does that for a lot of people,

but it's also soul-sucking because it's like, at the end of the day, what are you selling? You don't have to name it, but what are you selling? It was challenging. I mean, I was thinking today how one of my assignments, I mean, just to give you an idea, and it's so well-funded, right? It's like, is we need a, one of the companies needed, we had a new drug we were promoting. They needed a new tagline. Yeah. And it needed to be a three-word tagline. And two of the words of the tagline were needed to be a three-word tagline, and two of the words of the tagline were predetermined were multi-symptom relief.

It's like, Joe, I want you to sit in that office for eight hours. Two words are multi-symptom relief. What's the other word? And we got to bill all those hours to this pharmaceutical company, and you're just like, is this really my life? This is wild. I think that's the title of the episode. What?

Multi-symptom relief. Joe Birbiglia's multi-symptom relief. Oh, my God. So as you're living this sort of advertising existence in New York City, I moved to New York. I become a comedian. At a certain point, I convince you, hey, why don't you just come work with me full time?

Yes. And that was like a little bit slow going because we weren't making a lot of money. So then it was like, well, at a certain point, I got hired to do like sort of like a local internet TV ad campaign. And that was like enough money that I was like, I could afford to pay you for a year. Correct.

If you quit your job, I can pay you for a year, I think is what I said. Yeah. And then you had to get that past Congress. You had to, yeah. You had to bring it to the Senate. I needed a serious sign off. You brought it to House of Representatives.

To my wife's credit, she's, you know, she knew I was in the wrong place, you know? Yeah. So, yeah. And it was sort of like, you know, you're in your early 30s. It's like, she knew I was in the wrong place. Yeah. And it was sort of like, you're in your early 30s. It's like, now or never. So then we basically, our process, I would describe it this way, and maybe you would describe it a different way. Yes.

I describe it as, I think of myself as sort of someone who creates things from nothing. Yes. And then a lot of times what I'll do is I'll call you and go, so I have the structure of this thing. The beginning is this and the end is this. And I really need to, like, for example, with the new one, the last special. Yeah.

Like, I have this thing. I think that we should open on a discussion of the couch. Sure. And what it symbolizes. Right. And I'll call you, and you and I, and sometimes Peter, who works on the show, at that time, I think it was Greg Doris,

will work on, like, what are a hundred, it's not dissimilar to the onion thing. Correct. Like, what is a hundred jokes about a couch? Yes, yeah. Like, what are a hundred, it's not dissimilar to the onion thing. Correct. Like, what is a hundred jokes about a couch? Yes. Yeah. And you're really good at writing those kinds of jokes. Oh, thank you.

You have a real brain for, like, I always quote you on the show as saying, like, you describe comedy writing as letting your brain go for a walk. That's right. Yeah. How do you describe our process or think about our process? Well, I think that's a good description of the process. I often say that it's like I'm in a band. Yes, yes. This is like a band.

And Mike is the lead singer of the band, and he writes songs, but then needs support in filling them out and try to help you dunk, you know, to mix metaphors if I could. I think the end would be, yeah, yeah, it would be like to finish the album. Yeah.

I think band metaphor, yeah, I'm like the lead singer, lyricist, and then, but then ultimately, you know, it takes this group of people to like sort of you know have a group mind and discuss like what could this song be? Yeah.

Totally juice it. Yeah. Where is this How good could it be? Yeah. Where is this song where is it losing people? Well I mean

at least that's the comedy version of it. Yeah. And we get very yeah we get very granular and we give you know to give away too many secrets, but you rank jokes and you score them. But then we've learned a lot. I always go back to this article that Jerry Seinfeld, they wrote about Jerry Seinfeld in the Times about his joke writing process and how he was writing loose leaf papers and how he works on a document.

And I think I called you up. I was like, Jerry Seinfeld does this exact same thing. We're doing it. You know, it's like, it's not magic. It's like, this is a thing. This is how it works. And, you know, we're just, you know, we're doing it right. It was kind of nice and affirming, but it's not magic.

What do you like about writing jokes? Oh, what I like about writing jokes is amusing myself. That's funny, yes. No, I think that's so key. Yeah. I think one of the keys is you have to be making yourself laugh. Yes. When do you get most frustrated as a comedy writer?

Like, in being part of, like, the band, so to speak. Like, if you feel like, no, that joke is hilarious. You didn't use that joke. Why wouldn't you? Do you ever feel like, do you ever hold on to that stuff? Sometimes I get annoyed, or I'll think, I'll give it another shot. You know, maybe you said it in an incorrect way. Yeah.

But for the most part, I think you give things a day in court. I think you're pretty good about that. One thing I've noticed working with you, and I think it's good for all sorts of business, you've got to find the boss in the right headspace. If I know I have an amazing joke, I'm not going to give it to you in the meeting first because you're cold.

Yeah. And I can feel you sort of warming up to other things and it sort of breaks you down and then boom, you hit with that and you hit heights. It's a little secret I've been doing for years. What's your favorite thing we made?

That we've made? Yeah. Gosh. I know, people ask me this sometimes. I have a hard time saying. I think, yeah, maybe the height was thank God for jokes and working on that. Oh, interesting.

Yeah, yeah. And I have this funny thing with you, I don't know if you realize it, where when you do a show, it's not a pet peeve or anything. It's actually, it kind of works out for the best. When I watch your show, and I see like a joke that I wrote, right?

Yeah. And, how do I say this? You can say anything. When I watch you perform, and I'll see like the best jokes that I've written in the show are real high points. They often,

not often, but on occasion have been real heights of the show and really high. Sure. I've helped you hit real high notes.

Yeah. But the reason is for my jokes to make it into the show, they have to be so much better than your jokes. Yeah.

You know? Maybe. I can make a counter to that, but go ahead. So my experience has been, for my jokes to be in the show, when I write a joke that's equal to your joke, your joke will go. Because it's your voice. It's your show. You're the guy delivering the pizza.

So it's completely up to you. So as a result, what I ultimately do get in the show tends to be strong. It's funny, because the counter to that, and I don't disagree with that you see it that way, but the, is for me to, I actually give your jokes more of a benefit of the doubt when you pitch them to me than my own jokes.

So I try to actually offset that, knowing that that would be the natural inclination. Okay. Yeah. I appreciate that. I'm actually hyper aware of that. Okay. I always try to like,

like when you pitch jokes, I always try to say them like two or three times out loud and phrase them different ways that feel more like the way I talk. Yeah, I've noticed that. And just be like, maybe this, maybe this, maybe this. And then you wrote a real, what's funny is you're more conservative than I am

in terms of like bodiness and things like that. But then over the years, you actually have some jokes in the shows that are more body than anything I've written. Like you wrote the joke, fuck monster from Think Up Jokes. I think. A fuck wrote the joke, fuck monster from thank God for jokes. I think. A fuck monster.

Oh, okay. Your kids might not like that. I'll take your word for it. But it's like, well, it's like, it's a joke about, well, you always hated in thank God for jokes. You didn't hate,

but you always like raised a flag on like, that I said like Janice is on heroin. Oh, right. Yes. I was talking about the Muppets. Right. And I'm like, Janice is on heroin. Oh, right, yes. We're talking about the Muppets. And I'm like, Janice is on heroin. It's like a heroin drug. And you were always like, you know, heroin's a real problem.

I don't know if we should joke about it. It's very serious. And then you're like, then you're pitching like, I'm fuck monster. And I'm like, all right. I don't understand the ethics of this. Double standards. I'm fuck monster.

Yeah, that's funny. How do you navigate us being brothers and working together full time? Well. We're on the phone every day, or I should say five days a week. At a certain point, I don't know if you remember this, at a certain point you were like, you can't call me on the phone every day, or I should say five days a week. At a certain point, I don't know if you remember this, at a certain point you were like,

you can't call me on the weekends, which is a very odd thing because I'm like, that's when I do my shows. Oh, right. I do my shows on the weekends. Well, I understand that. By virtue of my actual job, I literally work seven days a week.

I mean, I very rarely don't work seven days a week. Right, right. And so at a certain point you were like, I have a week. I mean, I very rarely don't work seven days a week. Right, right. And so at a certain point, you were like, I have a family. Yes. Like, do not call me on Saturday or Sunday. Well... Which is fair.

I'm not saying it as a criticism. Well, I would want to rescind that for things that are creative. Right, right, right. Maybe do other things. Kicking jokes around over the weekend. Yeah, it's more of a weekend thing. But yeah, I mean, it's funny because Gina, our sister,

has asked me that at some point. Like, oh, if you weren't working with Mike, how would it be? And I'm like, Mike is always on and always in a work mode, so I don't know that things would even be different. I mean, you're very, you know. That could be true. Yeah. It could be true. Yeah. It could be true.

Sometimes we've, I don't know if we've done it before where I'll call and say, we're talking as brothers today, let's not talk business. We should say that more often. On this podcast? Which one's that?

One of my funny stories is, Mike, you never worked in corporate or anything? Just as a temp. No, I know, but as far as in a corporate setting with rules and boundaries and guidelines. And I remember early on, I had been working with Mike, for you full-time for a few months,

and I took a Thursday off, and you said to me, I took a Thursday off, and you said, it's great if you take a Thursday off but when you do that try to work on Saturday that's really funny

try to work on Saturday I'm like let me get you the Pfizer HR manual about that's so funny try to work on Saturday I mean of course I believe I said that

but at the very and so that's like when you tune out your brother, like, okay, I'm going to pretend he didn't say that. Try to work on Saturday. Well, that's the thing that's really hard to explain to people, but show business is like, the truth is,

I mean, you don't want to admit that this is true, but it's like the people who work the hardest do the best. And so the modern conventional wisdom is like you know wellness and like separation of work and life and all these kind of like yeah sort of happy happy feet kind of things and it's like the truth is like i'm looking around going happy feet aren't winning the race yeah and. And you know what's funny? If I could name drop for a moment. But I was talking with,

what's funny is I was talking with Nathan Lane about this at one point. I said, Mike won't take a vacation. And he goes, I won't take a vacation. Oh, that's so funny. You never told me that story. You're like a legend. You can take a vacation, man. Isn't that funny?

That's a great story. Because honestly, the people I know who are most successful as artists, they really don't take time off. I mean, it's one of those unfortunate truisms of like, there's definitely a moment of culture right now where people are zooming out about work and the idea of work and going like, is it worth it? Is it worth it to work 90 hours a week?

And people are really reconsidering it. They're going like, I'm giving my whole life to this company or this show or this movie or whatever it is. And it's like, whenever I look at that conversation, I'm always like, I know what you mean. I respect where you're coming from. I understand the idea of work-life balance,

but I'm on the front lines, and I'm seeing all the people around me who are doing well. I'm seeing the people who aren't doing well. The people who are doing well work fucking 90 hours. I'm sorry. Yeah. They live it. They live inside.

It was funny because I'm working on a screenplay right now, and I've been working on it for about 40 years. And someone said to me recently, they're like, well, why don't you work on it in August when you're doing eight shows a week at the Mark Taper Forum in Los Angeles because you're going to have the show in your bones and then the other parts of your day you can do it.

And I'm like, no, no, no, you don't understand. When I'm doing eight shows a week, I can't do anything else. Like my whole, I'm living inside the show. That's right. Like my life is the old man in the pool. And then when I go to the coffee shop, it's like literally stepping outside the show to grab coffee, and then I'm back in the show.

I'm living it all day. It's not just a 90-minute section of my day. One of the challenges I have is because it's like, figure out your Texas sales tax. Then Mike wants two pages of jokes about vampires. I know. No, because it's a wild thing. We file taxes.

You're the business manager for the company. Yeah. We file taxes in like 30 states often. It's challenging. Or 20 states. I tour so many places. Yeah, it's challenging. And so I don't know if you ever find this,

but often I'll find myself putting off the creative, like the vampires writing or, you know, something to this effect because it just seems like goofing off. Right. You ever get that? Yeah. I can't sit down and write jokes about swimming and vampires. I have work to do. okay so as you know as a producer on the show, this is called The Slow Round.

Oh, boy. What is your role in our family? Like, I think of myself as like the outlier in the family. I would agree with that. Like, I think I almost have no role. I don't, I feel like a bit of a hub because a lot of the activity, like I get a lot of feedback and static from my parents about you.

Right. That I'm supposed to filter to you. They complain about me to you. Yeah. Yeah. And then. Just so weird. Cause I'm open to them calling me and complaining about me. I don't care.

Right. Right. And then, you know, with our other siblings, they really have their acts together. Just so weird because I'm open to them calling me and complaining about me. I don't care. Right, right. And then, you know, with our other siblings, they really have their acts together. So I don't know. Right. I don't know. My role is, you know. Well, you're a little bit of a misaffix it with like our parents, for example.

I am, yeah. Yeah. Fixing their computers and all this kind of stuff. Yeah. What was your middle child? Like, what do you think you ended up being from that? What did you get from that? What I got having two older sisters is parents who were pretty well broken in.

Oh, that's nice. You know, so, you know, one of our sisters was more of a disciplinary issue, and I was super easy. Right. So I was, you know, I don our sisters was more of a disciplinary issue and I was super easy. Right. So I was, you know, I don't know what to say. But you were also sort of a loon. Like I remember when I was a kid,

you like jumped off of like a huge piece of furniture. Like I remember mom being like, Joe, like when he was a baby, like jumped off the fridge or something. Yes, I did. Do you remember that? Yeah, I fell off a refrigerator. Cracked my head open.

I was very hyperactive, yes. But I mellowed out and, you know, I don't know. Do you remember, like, what would have, like, drawn you to, like, standing on top of a refrigerator? Honestly, that I don't remember. What I do remember is, and one of my earliest memories is eating or pretending to eat. Grandma Birbiglia is our father's mother's heart medicine. Oh, my gosh.

It's crazy. And so when they found me with the heart medicine, I made a joke. I made a joke that I had consumed it and was rushed to the hospital. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. And what's wild about that, hey, it's first joke. Good joke. Solid joke.

Very jackass genre joke. Candy. But also what's wild about that is that was at our grandmother's house, and I cannot remember that grandmother at all. Really? Not at all. Yeah, I never met her. And I was at her house when I did that incident. It's unusual.

I mean, I must have been three, four. Right. And you were very cruel to me. Okay. But when we were younger. Yeah. Not like when we became teenagers. I think so. There's some truth. Like when you were like, my joke or your joke that you always say is that

when I was younger, I used to say to you, hey Joe, remember when we were five? Yes. And of course, we were never five. Yeah. No, it was tough. I was tough on you as an older brother. I would guess.

I think it worked out pretty well. It worked out fine. It worked out fine. I just think you should work on Saturdays if you don't work on Thursdays. If you're going to take a perfectly good Thursday off. Jesus Christ. I love that I said that. I do not remember.

Speaking of which, that's my falling off the refrigerator. I don't remember that at all. No, but you were wild because you were like, well, I have a joke in the show where I go, you know, they'd say, who's going to be the executor of your will? And I go, my brother Joe, when we were kids, he would punch and suffocate me until I would cry to my mom. And when I was crying, he would make jokes. And then I would start laughing and

crying. And my mom would be so confused. And Joe would look at my mom. He looked at my mom with a straight face and said, he's so hurt. Why is he laughing? And my mom would be so confused, she'd declare a mistrial. And so that's why he shouldn't be the executor of my so confused, she'd declare a mistrial. And so that's why he shouldn't be the executor of my will.

That's in the show right now. I know. That's in the old man in the pool. How accurate's that story? This is actually a good indicator for the audience of like talking to you, because you're firsthand in all these stories. I get that question constantly. How real are those stories?

Oh, I can remember that story like it was yesterday. I remember it really well too. And in fact, I think one thing with that story is I threw water right in your face. Oh my God. Right in the presence

of my mother. Right through this big cup of water. And that like exacerbated the crying slash laughing. Oh my gosh.

Yeah. Wait, after you were like punching me and then I was crying and then you came over and you threw water in my face to make me laugh? I think so, yeah, to mix it up.

Oh, my gosh. It's a diversion. Get over it. I'm over it. I'm over it. No, man. It made me tough. It made me the tough MMA guy who people know me as today.

You were always talking about MMA. you were always talking about MMA do you remember an inauthentic version of yourself in your life? can you hit me with that one? it's like my favorite question I remember some inauthentic versions of yourself oh snap can you spark my memory?

well, the Phil Collins phase. I love Phil Collins. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. It's so funny you mention that. You have all these audio cassettes of Phil Collins and Genesis. I remember them so well. You were such a super fan.

I was. That was my first concert. I will make no apologies for loving Genesis. The Worcester Centrum. Yeah. I'll make no apologies to that. In fact, in Decembercember genesis made their final they're on like their final tour final final like phil collins performed seated yeah

this kind of stuff and in december they were performing at the boston garden or the fleet center whatever they call it now and i thought i looked at it and i was like i'm gonna go to this concert i'm gonna spend like five $500 and buy like fifth row floor to like close this chapter of my life, last Genesis concert ever. And I mean, I didn't buy the ticket, but I thought about it. But then, and I even put it on my calendar.

I was like, maybe I'll go to, I'm like, I don't know anybody else who likes Genesis, so it would just be me. And I got COVID. I got COVID that week. Oh, man. It wiped out the concert. I got December.

I was a December COVID baby. You're telling me you're going to pay $500 for one ticket to see a Genesis concert? Just like the best ticket, right? Just to have the experience. This is crazy. Like you're in the band. This is insane. Not like the $80 ticket like in the back.

Oh, my gosh. I have your credit card. It's fine. I can't believe this. What's your best and worst nickname in your life? Like people calling you. Because they called you Joe Boo, I remember. Oh, yeah.

That was all right. That was because of the movie MVP, which I don't know if our listeners will remember. Major League. Yeah, Major League. Major League. Yeah, Major League. And it was a baseball movie. Yeah. Where there was a. Major League. Yeah, Major League. Major League, yeah, Major League. And it was a baseball movie where there was a Joe Boo character.

Yeah, that was fun. And so people would call you Joe Boo in high school. I think I was glad to leave that behind in high school. You let that in high school. You know how it goes, right? Joe Boo! Yeah. I would be at your soccer games and wrestling matches,

and they would yell, Joe Boo! You ever have those nicknames where like some people are using insultingly and some people are using like, they're your friends. Thank you. And you're just like, I don't know which one you were just doing. No, I know.

You know. No, I get that. A sense of ear. No, no, I know what you mean. Yeah. No, I think nicknames are like that. People, Burbiggs. Burbiggs, yeah.

Burbiggs. You know, you're like, is it friendly?ames are like that. People, Burbiggs. Burbiggs, yeah. Burbiggs. You know, you're like, eh, is it friendly? But then you get people coming, hey, Burbiggs. You're like, oh, that's friendly. That's nice. That's nice. You got to read for tone. Yeah.

Yeah. When I was in college, I was on an orientation trip, like in the woods. And I convinced these 10 incoming freshmen that my nickname was Motherfucker. And so they called me Motherfucker the entire trip. I don't know what's – You convinced them that that was your nickname? I was having fun. This is such a ridiculous story.

And so during college, those 10 people would call me that around campus. I don't know. It was great. By the way – Please cut that out. No, no, keep that in. I don't know. It was great.

By the way. Please cut that out. No, no, keep that in. I was literally just going to say, this is quintessential, like, our writer sessions. Like, a lot of times in our writer sessions, it's just like, I have this story, blah, blah, blah. That's right.

And that makes me think of the time where my nickname was this. That makes me think of the time my nickname was this. And then we're like, oh, that could be a joke. Yeah. Don't you feel like a lot of our, like, writing sessions are like, are like, I tell a story that makes me think of this, you think of that. And then it's like, wait, wait, I think that might be the joke. And then a lot of times I'll go to the comedy teller and be like,

okay, I tried out that line and that works. Yeah. So, you know, I mean, you know this story. This is a story that we haven't been able to make into a story, but I think it is a funny story, which is you're a good skier. And I'm a so-so skier. Yeah. And we were at, I want to say Sundance, 2012? Yeah.

And you were like, let's go skiing. And I'm like, I don't think we should go skiing, but you really want to go. And then the joke is, to me, skiing is brainstorming ways to die. Like, what if we got on the top of a really steep mountain? Oh, that's good. Let's raise the stakes. Why don't we strap four-foot-long razor blades to our feet?

And then we can create barriers along the way, so we'll be like a human pinball. So I'm flying down the mountain. My ski gets stuck in one of the bumps, one of the moguls, and my body does not, so my body flies in the air like a toddler on a bouncy castle.

And I'd land on the ice and then I'm just skidding down the mountain with my face as my skis because I've lost my skis. It's like a yard sale ski rack. You know, I'm just equally distributing mittens, hats, poles, like a yard sale.

That's what they call it. That's a real turn of phrase, yard sale skiing accident, where it looks like I'm selling all of my ski equipment, which is what I should have been doing. I should have been like, this didn't work out for me.

Maybe it'll work out for you. But it's not the best look for a salesman. Just a man with a broken shoulder lying on the side of a mountain, face down, buried in a patch of bloody snow, being like, can I interest you in some equipment? I'll charge you whatever it costs

to get me to the hospital. So I'm lying there and I hear someone laughing. I turn around and it's you, it's Joe. And you're laughing and you're taking photos of me. And I go, Joe, I'm in pain. And you said, Mike, you're going to want these photos. And I've never seen the photos. And I don't know if they exist.

Well, photo management is very challenging. No, you're absolutely right. That's a true story, though. You and Gina, our sister Gina, have the same thing, which is you're always like, you're going to want these photos. That's like a thing that you and Gina always say. It's true, yeah. Okay, so I wrote you up a few beats on swimming.

Oh, yeah, please. It seems to be the theme of the show. It's a big part of the show, yeah. It's a huge part. I don't know. I sort of wrote it a little bit from my perspective. Sure, yeah. I actually don't think I like swimming, but I do it three times a week.

Is there anything I like as little as swimming that I do with such regularity? Maybe flossing. Yes. Good example. I swim because I hate the elliptical machine. I swim because if I don't, my wife and kids are going to get all that sweet insurance money. Oh, God. That sweet insurance money. that sweet insurance money. Swimming is really committing to taking a hell of a lot of showers and a real commitment to wetness.

Yeah. You know, you get there, you shower before you go in the pool, you go in the pool, you get wet, you come out, you take a half-assed shower. Then that night you're like, I'm kind of gross. I got to take another shower.

Yeah. It's really, it's out of control. What I take out of that, the funniest observation, I think, is water to water to water. Oh, okay. I think that's such a funny thing

about the pool, which is like, you go, you take a shower. He's like, you must take a shower. And then you go in the water, and then,

which you have to do also, and then come out, and you're like, well, now I really have to shower. Now I really need water on me. But it's like, it's triple water. Yeah. Triple water experience. The laundry's out of control with the swimming. Yeah, the laundry's a debacle.

The towels. And also like the bathing suit machine, the bathing suit drying machine in the locker room. It's like, what is happening in that thing? It's like you put the bathing suit in and you go, you push it down and you go, what's happening? I literally don't understand what,

there's so many machines, there's so many machines like that where you don't witness what the machine's doing and you go, I'll just take their word for it on this one. It's not an engineering degree you got there. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, but how would you describe what the bathing machine's doing? It spins it. Mr. Confident Bathing Suit Man. Throw a salad in there. Throw your arugula in there. Same thing. That's what it does. It spins it?

It just spins it. I don't exactly know how it spins it. You really took me down hard for someone who doesn't actually know how the bathing machine works. All right. This is a real dynamic, everybody. Moving on. This is the real brother dynamic. Okay.

Would you like another little bit of this magic? I love it, yeah. All right. Swimming is like poor man's boating. When you swim... I'm laughing at my own joke. Swimming is like the very poor man's boating. When you swim, you are the boat. And the motor to that boat is your arms and legs.

So your boat doesn't have 250 horsepower unless you happen to be 250 horses. It has one man power or one woman power i feel like you'd build that out of like it's like if you were a bow it's like it's like um it's like swimming is like boating um on a broken boat you know what i mean on a boat that doesn't work and has no motor and is sinking all time. You're like in a sinking boat. Yeah. That's like, I'm trying to think of like the worst boat.

Like, I feel like that's the turn. Because I always think of jokes as like, the setup is the thing that's true. Yes. And the punchline is the thing that you're taking a left turn where it's like, but it's like, the thing that's true is, swimming is a little bit like boating.

It's not the buoyancy and everything. It's not that dissimilar. You are the boat. It's a good observation. And then I think the left turn is like what's the broken boat version of it? You're the boat. You're like what's a shitty boat? There's no getting off this boat, I think.

Oh, that's nice. That's a good one. No getting off this boat. I'm just trying to think of's that. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. That's a good one. Yeah. No getting off this boat. I'm just trying to think of shitty boats. It's like you've got barnacles and there's no motor. Right, barnacles. You've been in the garage all winter. So I'm a slow swimmer,

and I chalk it up to being a large person with small hands. If I were a small person with large hands, I'm confident I'd be a much faster swimmer. That's funny. And if I were a medium-sized person with medium-sized hands, I would be faster than I am now, but not as fast as I might be with very large hands and a very small body.

I don't know. No, I think there's something there. Yeah. I think that's very funny. If there were some kind of surgery to elongate my fingers, that could really help my times. This is the episode where people go, I see why he's not the lead singer.

Put him back on the drums. You're right. I have something that I think you'll think is funny. I've been working on this at the cellar a little bit this week, which is when we've had, and I've talked about this on the show before, like our building, our apartment building was like collapsing, like essentially because it was so old.

So we had to move out and we had mold and mildew. We had all these problems. We had to move out into an Airbnb. And then I go, which my joke is like, which by the way, no breakfast. It's a dishonest acronym. Airbnb, no B. Airbnb and the owner lives in the basement. But I go, this is the thing I've been trying out this week.

I go, there's the biggest problem with the Airbnb. No thermostat. Airbnb, no tea. And I tell the audience, I go, I'm not making this up. I go, Airbnb, no tea. And I tell the audience, I go, I'm not making this up. I go, Airbnb, no tea. I go, New Yorkers. I go, maybe I'm wrong.

I go, New Yorkers have no standards for our housing. We're just like, there's no thermostat? Okay. It's zero degrees? Okay. It's 100 degrees? Okay. There's rats? Okay. There's cockroaches in the rats? Okay. There's holes in the building? Okay. It's 100 degrees? Okay. There's rats? Okay. There's cockroaches in the rats? Okay. There's holes in the building? Okay.

I love New York City. It's the greatest city in the world. We're so lucky to live here. We're so much better than other people. I'm starting to be like, are we? Is this better? What are we doing? But I thought you'd appreciate that because you always make fun of me for living in New York despite the fact that it's so absurd here. It is absurd.

Even driving here with my son, he's looking at the GPS and it's like, dad, it says it's.5 miles away. I know where this is going. And 13 minutes. Yeah. How is that possible? I was like, oh. No, I know. Trust it.

No, no. It's extraordinary. And so then, so the ending of the story is, it's 90 degrees in the apartment. It's two in the morning. Yeah. In the Airbnb with no thermostat. My family's almost dead. They're on the cusp of being alive.

Yeah. I begin to be concerned. Yeah. I call my landlord in the middle of the night, two in the morning. Hey, I begin to be concerned. I call my landlord in the middle of the night, 2 in the morning. Hey! I'm still friendly.

Sorry to bother you. I'm still like, we love it here. I'm in my business voice like, we love it here. It's great. It's totally working out. We'd love to stay.

Is there a thermostat? Because if there isn't, it's fine. Because we love it, we're totally, our family's almost dead, it's fine. If there is a thermostat, we'd love to know where it is. He goes, there's a communal thermostat in the lobby of the building. I was like, I love communal thermostats.

I supported Bernie Sanders. I totally, I love communal thermostats. I supported Bernie Sanders. I totally get it. Universal thermostats. So go out to the lobby, communal lobby, the communal thermostat of the communal lobby. It is padlocked behind a plexiglass. Yeah. An encasement.

I do not have the lock, the key to that lock. And so what do I do? I Hulk smash the window and I say to the audience, I go, I may not look like much, but when my family is half dead in a 90-degree apartment, I turn into Thermostat Man, a superhero. But for me as an audience member listening to that, I'm a little confused though,

because wouldn't he have mentioned you don't have access to it on that call? You know, the truth is he didn't, didn't mention it. He didn't mention it. No, because I mean, I don't want to go into it, but he's like, he's, you know, he's someone who probably got into this real estate game and wanted to be minimally involved.

Okay. And so he didn't mention it and whatever. Yeah. And so I couldn't believe it when I went out and there's a lock on the thing. I couldn't believe it. Maybe I should mention that. Maybe I should go into the details of that.

Because it's also like, I did Hulk smash it. I Hulk smashed it. I got in. Oh, the joke is, I set it to zero. I saved my family's life. This is a joke. Oh, because it was too hot. It was too hot. I got in. Oh, the joke is I set it to zero. I saved my family's life. This is a joke. Oh, because it was too hot. It was 90. I wanted it off, basically. Yeah.

But I Hulk smashed it. And then, yeah, no, that's a true story. I mean, sometimes when I tell the story, people are like, was your hand bloody? And I'm like, no, no, it wasn't. It was like, it's a true story. And I mean, sometimes when I tell the story, people are like, was your hand bloody? And I'm like, no, no, it wasn't.

It was like, it's plastic. So it was like, I Hulk smashed it, shoved it aside. It's interesting how audiences are curious about the finer points and the details, semantics. And you don't want that to derail an audience. No, I mean, you and I talk about this all the time. It's like, you want it to be absurd enough that it's funny and real enough that people don't go,

no, that didn't happen. That's right, yeah. I mean, that's, in terms of, you know, you and me and Seth and Peter, you know, we're constantly calibrating, like, what is real enough that people are along for the ride? That's right, yeah. And what is fun enough, silly are along for the ride? That's right.

And what is fun enough, silly enough that it's fun? All right, so the final thing we do on the show is called Working Out for a Cause, as you know. We contribute to the organization that you think is doing a good job. We link to them in the show notes. Who would you like to give to? Oh, I am always a big supporter of the Rhode Island Food Bank.

That's great. Yeah. We've given to them before. Yeah, keeping it local up in the Ocean State. In the Ocean State. We're going to give to the Rhode Island Food Bank, and we're going to link to them in the show notes. Joe Birbiglia,

thanks for being a guest on Working It Out, a show that you produce and you will have a final cut on and take out all the parts you don't like. Oh, boy. Thank you. Thank you for having me, Mike. It's been a pleasure. And, yeah.

Working it out, because it's not done. Working it out, because there's no... That's going to do it for another episode of Working It Out. That is Joe Birbiglia, Joseph Birbiglia on Instagram. He is jbirbiglia. And on Twitter, he is at joebirbigs.

The next time you watch one of my specials or one of my movies, just know that Joseph Birbiglia is behind the scenes working his magic, letting his brain go for a walk. I appreciate Joe so much. He's one of the producers of this podcast,

along with Peter Salamone and myself, consulting producer Seth Barish, sound mix by Shubh Suran, supervising engineer Kate Balinski. Sound and video recording by Chuck Staten with help from Gary Simons. Associate producer Mabel Lewis. As always, a special thanks to Mike Insiglieri,

Mike Berkowitz, as well as Marissa Hurwitz and Josh Effall. As always, a special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers for their music. As always, a special thanks to my wife, the poet, J. Hope Stein. Our book, the new one, is in your local bookstore.

And her book, Little Astronaut, is coming out very soon at your local bookstore as well, her book of poetry. As always, a special thanks to our daughter, Una, who created the original radio for Made of Pillows.

Thanks most of all to you who have listened. Tell your friends. Tell your friends. Tell your enemies. And look, I know we don't want to have enemies. But every now and then we find ourselves in a situation where we're at the grocery store. We reach for some bananas or some tangerines. And someone else touches those tangerines

right at that same moment and you lock eyes and you go well I'm going to give up these tangerines but maybe I'll just mention one thing, you know, there's this podcast I really enjoy where there are two comedians or creative types

sort of kick around jokes and ideas and I think you'd really like it. It's called Working It Out. We're working it out, everybody. We'll see you next time.