Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 82. Sam Morril: What Did You Do? My Act.

Episode Date: October 3, 2022

Sam Morril tells well-crafted jokes but sometimes they make people angry. Sam is known for dealing with provocative subject matter but he doesn’t consider himself a provocative comedian. He and Mike dissect the difference. Then, on the heels of Sam’s new hit Netflix special “Same Time Tomorrow,” the two comics pollinate the seeds of new jokes about mink coats, resistance coffee shops, disappointing your religious relatives, and why Elon Musk has eight kids.Please consider donating to City Harvest

If you look at like Carlin, for example, they weaponize his jokes for whatever message they have because his jokes are so complex. It's like the Bible. You can cut it out. It's like the Bible. They're just taking Carlin and being like, this is what it meant. I'm like, I don't know. But at the same time, Carlin contradicted himself like all comics do. Yes.

Like he'll do stuff where you're like, a comic should never do this. And then he does that. Hicks did that. A lot of the greatest comics do that. So, I mean, we all... And certainly Breyer. Everyone did. I mean, all the best comics do that. And rock. And rock. Because when

you put out that much material, you're going to contradict yourself. Yes, absolutely. We are back with a new episode of Working It Out. That's the voice of comedian Sam Morrell. I love that Sam Morrell. He's got a whole bunch of comedy specials.

Two on Comedy Central. He has one on YouTube that was on a roof. It's called Up on a Roof. He did during the pandemic because he's addicted to doing stand-up comedy. And the new special he has is called Same Time Tomorrow. It's on Netflix. We talk a lot about finding the line in comedy and what it means to be a provocative comedian

and what it means to tour as a comedian. He and I have that in common. As a matter of fact, I've been out on the road this fall. I just had great shows in Pittsburgh and Cleveland. I'm heading to Detroit, Columbus, Nashville, and Cincinnati. The Atlanta shows are sold out. It's so exciting. And then next up, Broadway.

I'm at the Vivian Beaumont Theater at Lincoln Center. Lincoln Center, what? Yeah, that's right. Lincoln Center. It's unbelievable. Someone said to me the other day, this person said, thanks for mentioning on the Jimmy Carr episode that the ticketing is complex on the show. It is in the sense that some of the tickets are alarmingly expensive.

Disregard. Disregard the alarmingly expensive tickets. expensive. Disregard. Disregard the alarmingly expensive tickets. I used to say tickets start at $39, and then I tried to buy tickets myself and realized that there are fees that make those tickets $48. So I'm telling you, tickets start at $48. Here's the good news. The good news is all the seats at the theater are great. It is an architectural marvel. The Vivian Beaumont Theater is one of the best theaters in the world. It's an awesome theater experience. It's an incredible set design by Beowulf Barrett. Incredible lighting design, direction.

It's just a great... I mean, we did it at the Mark Tabor Forum. We're doing it at the Vivian Beaumont at Lincoln Center. I'm very proud of the show, and I think you'll love the show. You can get tickets all on Burbiggins.com. Join the mailing list, and enjoy my conversation with the great Sam Murill.

It's funny, because I know you like Geraldo because on your podcast when I look at behind you you have a photo of Geraldo. We have a wall of death behind us. It's like Geraldo, Patrice, Pryor. We got to get Joan Rivers up there, I just realized. There's like comics we think are like legends. Yeah, I loved Greg Geraldo. I thought he was a great comic

and I loved how he did social commentary, where it was like kind of for everybody. Yes. Well, it's funny because it's like, I think you, you know, I was friends with Giraldo. It was devastating to lose him. And like, I think you and he have a lot in common because you, both of you,

you seem like you might be tough to interface with really and then you're nice oh thanks yeah yeah like i think like you see it's just my eyebrows i look like a villain yeah yeah probably i don't know um no i i i've heard that but then i've never other people have said that to me that they expect me to not be as nice as i am. No, but I think that's part of what's working for you with your comedy. It's like your opening joke in your Netflix special is just as – The cop teacher? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I say, you know, cops, that's a tough job.

You've got all this power and you get paid less than a teacher sometimes. Can you imagine risking getting shot and you only make a little bit more than a cop? So good. A little bait and switch. So good. Yeah. It's so good. So that joke is an example of like,

I think your look, that you have a tough exterior, people are thinking you're going to go pro-cop and then you go pro-teacher, but then you split the difference. But then I go back and I shit on teachers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was kind of like,

I like to do that where you set the tone for a special where you kind of like, I'm going to make fun of everybody. None of it's malicious. I mean, I also like opening with a topic that might push people away. And then when the first joke brings it back, I did another special.

First six or seven minutes was like Me Too jokes that were from, I thought, a different perspective than I'd heard in clubs. So I was like, I'll grab people and they'll thought, a different perspective than I'd heard in clubs. Yeah. So I was like, I'll grab people and they'll either be like, oh, this guy's for me or this guy's totally not for me. Get rid of him immediately. Yeah.

You know? That's interesting. Yeah, that seems, I mean, a tell's like that, certainly. Stan hopes like that, for sure. I remember listening to, I mean, all you guys, I watched all you guys like half hours growing up, you know you obviously hedberg todd barry uh you know all you know patrice giroldo uh burr everyone like literally everyone from that class you watch because you want to

learn and you and you enjoy it like you just you know we do this most of us because we love it right yeah uh i mean stan, I remember that album, Something to Take the Edge Off. Yeah. I mean, that was like, I remember hearing that and being like, this is like fucking just biting. I loved it. Yeah, it's interesting watching your stuff because I'm like,

because you split, you know, you split the crowd like almost with every joke. And I was thinking, do you get more complaints, or if you get complaints at all, liberals or conservatives complaining more about your jokes? It goes back and forth. That's the funny thing. Right now it's conservatives.

What do they say? I had a trans joke go viral, which is pro-trans. So I think it got a lot of like, oh, all these very woke people are like, finally a comedian. I'm like, I don't want this responsibility. They're like, oh, we love this guy. I'm like, today you love me. Tomorrow, let's settle down.

So they're like, finally. And then they're like trashing Gervais and Chappelle. And I'm like, yeah, I like those guys. That's not what I'm saying. I'm not taking a shot at them. I'm doing a joke I think is funny. That's like, you follow the joke. And I'm like, it was a real conversation I had with a friend

about the swimmer, Leah Thomas. It was a real conversation I had with a friend about the swimmer Leah Thomas. It was, I kind of zinged him because he was really outraged about it. And the joke is I'm like, you don't give a shit. Right. The whole thing was like, you're outrageous to me. It's like, that was a joke is that people got mad. I had one guy get mad at me about Leah Thomas. This is a different guy being like, this is messed up.

Whatever you think, doesn't matter, right? And then he goes, I said, what do you think about the Brittany Griner thing? And he was like, who? And I was like, think, doesn't matter, right? And then he goes, I said, what do you think about the Brittany Griner thing? And he was like, who? And I was like, then you don't give a shit about women's sports. Oh, that's funny. It's an odd moment in time in relation to provocative comedians, because a lot of people get outraged and you, and I want to say like, even with the Gervais or Chappelle stuff or your stuff or any number of comics who— Some of the stuff I like and some of it I don't. I go like, well, it's provocative.

That's how comedy works. I don't know what to say when people are outraged. I'm like, well, yeah, I mean, you can get outraged, but, like, that's actually what the art form is. It's provocative. It's intended to provoke. I also don't look at my comedy as provocative, is. It's provocative. It's intended to provoke. I also don't look at my comedy as provocative, but maybe that's me. I look at the subjects as maybe being provocative, but then the actual jokes I think are escapist. I think I'm actually, like, I'm torn with these

jokes through, you know, Atlanta, Alabama, Texas, Kansas, Seattle, San Francisco. Like, I'm hitting every, like, I want to make sure these jokes hit in every market or I kind of drop them. So if they're 300 hitters, if they're a consistent joke, they're in the act. So I don't really see any of these jokes upsetting people when I tell them.

So that's why I'm shocked when they upset people, but it doesn't happen often anymore. It's funny because you and I both are like, we just tour like crazy. It's the best. Yeah, it's the best. And the thing that people have said to me for years that's completely wrong is they'll be like, it must be hard when you go to the Midwest. No, it's great.

It must be hard when you go to the South. No, it's great. Like every part of this country is pretty great. You've been in brooklyn too long people are saying that too no i know what you mean new yorkers will say that they're like you go to you go to alabama and you're like yeah dude yeah and look uh some of those cities surprise you like even me going in i'm like are they gonna like me i mean i'm i'm a new but then you also realize like you're foreign to them it's exciting like a new york jew in

huntsville alabama they're like let's go you know so totally i had that with fargo once i was on tour and even i was like this is gonna be a hard one and i was like this is one of the best shows i've ever had in my life you could have been on that show fargo yeah you could have been no i feel like you could you're a good actor i feel like you could have been on that show you too we're both on billions i'm in it for like a second you have like a good arc you have a good you know yeah yeah it's a good character no i was lucky they i was lucky they complimented man levine those guys oh yeah it's so funny you and i you and i also have this thing in common which is uh during the pandemic there's a lot of well first of all we have the same agent mike berkowitz shark he's a shark he's really tough he you know he and giraldo and i were his first clients

like 20 years ago yeah so we've been together forever we're saying burke and i are the same age but he's your he's your agent but he has this observation about the pandemic about comedy which is like some comics showed up and some of them were like, oh, look, it's a vacation. Oh, yeah. And like you and I both showed up. It's like I created this podcast. I did outdoor shows. I did virtual shows.

You did a special on a roof. Yeah, it looks funny. It's amazing how things change because I remember taping on roofs and, you know, I was like, man, am I going to get shit? These people aren't wearing masks. Are people going to kill me? So I asked for one of the last shows like can you guys just mask up so i don't look awful in this and then of course now you just they're like why people watch like why are they masked outdoors you know but uh yeah no that was there was nowhere to perform in new york

so i was just i was like i'll just do shows on rooftops. And my friend Matt Salicu showed up and he brought his friend Dominic Mull who brought a drone cam. So we're literally in like Murray Hill and you just see a camera start flying over my head. I'm like, this is fucking weird. And then certain areas are like, we can't use the drone.

It's a no fly zone. I'm like, all right. Oh my gosh. We're going to Bushwick, Williamsburg, East Village, West Village, like every, Hell's Kitchen, wherever. If they had a roof, I'd be like, yeah, I'll come through. Just get a mic and an amp.

That's how I felt. Like I spent so much of the pandemic performing at that Circle Hotel in Connecticut. Did you do that gig in Fairfield? I did one of those. I think, yeah. It's like the yard. I think we talked on the phone after. It's literally the yard.

Yeah, I did that one. Yeah, yeah. You were the one who convinced me to do virtual shows. The green room was like a motel room where you're expecting Javier Bardem with an air gun to come in and kill you. I remember that gig. That was a cool – that was Emilio Rand. I remember. That was a great gig.

The crowd was great. I love that place. And then you were the one who convinced me to do virtual shows. I hated those. That was all we had. But you were like, yeah, I mean, it was all we had. And you were like, it's fine. You're like, it's a reaction.

You connect. I looked at it as like, is there no gym in your hotel? Okay, I'll do a few pushups in my room. That's like how I looked at those, right? It's not real comedy, but it's like like you're saying the jokes right yeah i mean you have a friend who you'll you do stories so i'm assuming you have a friend who you call up and you're like can i just talk through this right yeah a lot of people so i mean that's what that was to me it was like it's another one of those yeah i mean that's the premise of this whole show in the first place. This podcast is like, the thing that happens before you put a joke on stage is you run it by comedian friends.

And like you're saying, in a way, that's like a Zoom. Yeah, no, I have friends. I have comic friends. Sometimes Ronan Hirshberg and I will Zoom on the road. We're both in our hotel rooms. It's like, hey, can I just talk this bit out to you? And back and forth. And it's valuable, man.

It really is. One of the things I loved about your Netflix special. First of all, you're one of the only people who has Netflix specials and YouTube specials. Yeah, well, I'm sure that's going to change. Right. I mean, did Chris DeStef? No, I guess he didn't do a YouTube one.

But other people, that'll change for sure. Norman. It's this huge inflection point right now where people are like, you talk to YouTube special people and they're like, I'd never do anything on Netflix. You talk to Netflix people, they're like, you can't be Netflix specials. How do you feel about it? It was, you know, you get stuff from both.

I think the YouTube one was great for me at the time because everyone passed, so it was a no-brainer. It came out in February of 2020. You're putting that out to tour, and you're like, well, that's not happening, but everyone's at home, so people are watching it. As long as I kept the momentum going in the pandemic, I figured that would help. Netflix is great too.

Those were the places I wanted to be. I was like, if Netflix passes, I'm not even going to pitch it to HBO or Amazon or anything. Not that those aren't good. I'm sure Amazon is working on it. But I looked at their interface and I'm like, why does every special look the same? It's a mess.

It's a mess. And I'm like, so that didn't look good to me. HBO didn't seem to promote it properly. Right. They pick good stuff and they make good stuff but and I think their shows are probably the best of any streamer but yeah uh Netflix for stand-up they just kind of they figured out that algorithm to to feed you to people and and YouTube was the same way a lot of people discovered me and I approached it the same way the YouTube special like open tight I cut a lot of people discovered me. And I approached it the same way the YouTube special, like open tight. I cut a lot of jokes in this special

because I was like, that's a fine joke. I want every joke in the first five minutes to really grab people so they don't shut it off. So many of your jokes are like riding the edge, finding the line. It's like, have you found a joke where you go, eh, it's too much? Yeah, of course.

Yeah, a lot of times I'll say like, oh, that's not, I can't, none really jump out at me because I drop them. But yeah, sometimes I'll be like, I don't like what I'm, this isn't funny enough to say what I'm saying in this joke. It's got to be really funny. And yeah, it is a tough line to walk sometimes where you don't want to pander to people. You don't want them to be getting necessarily what they want entirely.

My favorite jokes were always Chris Rock saying something where the crowd was just like, ugh, how dare you? Yeah. And then he flipped it and they're like, wow. Yeah. Those were awesome jokes that we thought. So that line is very difficult sometimes whenever someone's like, oh, you're, you know, you tell these offensive jokes,

that must be really easy. And you're like, actually, it's like, it's a challenge to do it in a way where I don't feel bad about myself. Well, the thing that's so odd is like my, like one of my favorite comics of all time is Doug Stanhope. And like, I have to say, like, if, if you, you know, if you ask me how much of his me how many of his jokes I agree with the joke, it's so few. Well, when did that even become part of it? Like, even saying I don't agree with that joke, you shouldn't be at my shows then. I don't want people who agree or disagree with jokes. Like, laugh or don't laugh.

That's really what comedy is. It's a very strange idea, the idea of agreeing with a joke, because I don't think that that is the goal ever. Yeah, I mean, that's someone who doesn't understand comedy. That's someone, it's like, that's their version of comedy, but they don't understand what we're doing. But I almost feel like if I'm unpacking it, like, I almost feel like it's in the universe of, like, the Daily Show got people in that headspace.

Well, Jon Stewart was great. Oh, I mean, brilliant. it's in the universe of like the daily show got people in that headspace well john stewart was great let me start with brilliant but yeah he heard us all because he was so good at what he did yeah that then comedians felt this social responsibility so when so many people look up to like think animal house was a great movie think about how many bad movies came from animal house there was like you know a million movies. When something is that done that good, they just start copying that prototype, right? Like they made 40 different versions of the Daily Show after the Daily Show. And like, when you start doing that, it's like when you just make sequels to movies, they're not original anymore. You took what was good about that and you kind of destroyed it.

It wasn't just that the format was good. Jon Stewart was great. That was the problem. So, yeah, I do think a lot of comics felt like it was important. Like, do you think, I don't know, if there was Twitter in like the 80s, do you think Eddie Murphy would have been like, here's where I stand on Roe v. Wade? Or do you think he would have just been going up there being hilarious?

You know? Right. I do think there's a social responsibility that comics feel now that i don't know if they necessarily have to be weighing in on every single uh issue on cnn or fox news yeah i mean some comics should but do you think like hedberg would be doing that it's weird right no and i do think john stewart switched it a little bit where a lot of comics felt they needed to weigh in no i think so too and i think like if you look at like Carlin, for example, the documentary that Judd and Bonfiglio made is so good.

I loved it. If people haven't seen the Carlin documentary, it's so good. I think it's on HBO. And it's interesting because you're like, people use his jokes on the left and the right. I know. They weaponize his jokes for whatever message they have

because his jokes are so complex. It's like the Bible. Yeah, you can cut it out. It's like the Bible. They're just his jokes for whatever message they have because his jokes are so complex. It's like the Bible. You can cut it out. It's like the Bible. They're just taking Carlin and being like, this is what it meant. I'm like, I don't know. But at the same time, Carlin contradicted himself

like all comics do. Yes. Like he'll do stuff where you're like, a comic should never do this. And then he does it. Hicks did that. A lot of the greatest comics do that. So, I mean, we all-

And certainly Briar. Everyone did. Yeah. I mean, all the best comics do that. So, I mean, we all- And certainly Briar. Everyone did. I mean, all the best comics do that. And Rock. And Rock. Because when you put out that much material, you're going to contradict yourself. Yes, absolutely. So it is, to me, a sign of a great comedian when the right and the left is kind of like being like, this is great.

Yes. So if anything, it's really just how great Carlin was that he can kind of unite I mean maybe not unite because people are using it as like clickbait but like in that room they're united at that show they're all laughing together and that's like why I want to be a comic it's like I didn't get in here to be like this is where I stand

on nuclear proliferation no I want to get up there and be like hey here's a joke I hope you all fucking laugh that's the plan, you know? You must be obsessed with jokes though, because it's like, I think similar to me, like during the pandemic, you're just like, I have to do this.

I was miserable. I really, yeah, I had like a routine. I knew I was lucky. I never, there was a moment where I was like, I'm not incredibly fortunate. But yeah, when COVID hit, I was like a routine. I knew I was lucky. I never, there was a moment where I was like, I'm not incredibly fortunate. But yeah, when COVID hit, I was like, oh yeah, my routine is fucked. I realized how much of that I relied on

for mental health and for getting up. I had no idea how much a part of my personal existence, the comedy seller was, until everything shut down. And then I was like, oh my God. You know what I had? I've never admitted this. I was like, I think these people are my friends. Yeah.

Well, there's people that you don't like, people like us who are like, we don't talk a ton, but like, I'm happy to see you at the cellar. It's like, that's how I felt about so many people there. And not to mention so much of our stimulus is like doing shit that's where the bits come from i go to the coffee shop someone bumps me we have a weird encounter i'm like that's a bit we lost that during covid i know they didn't lose it in texas and florida i mean you go there and you're like did you guys do you guys know what happened in the other states?

So we do this thing called the slow round, and it's sort of just based on memories. Do you have a memory on a loop from your childhood that you think about a lot? Memories from childhood? Probably, it's all basketball-related. It's all playing basketball. Yeah? I remember crying in the playoffs because I fouled out.

I remember that. I think about that a lot. In high school? Yeah, I cried. Did you play seriously in high school? Our school sucked. Oh, okay. So I was on the team, but sucked yeah and uh yeah i remember fouling out and i cried in the game and i was so mad i was just like gosh yeah i remember just being like that's it

that's it for me you think in high school everything matters yes so you're like this sporting event in high school will dictate the rest we're a terrible team this will dictate the rest of my life and uh yeah i remember i was so bummed what is uh what's the best piece of advice someone's giving you that you used um honestly to not get bitter in comedy like because there there are you are going to get passed over so much especially in the early years constantly yeah i remember bill burr once said to me he goes don't ever get fucking bitter oh that's interesting that follows you that stink follows you like a fish and people will smell it on you i was like oh that's good advice and then and then he goes you think they wanted another

balding redhead oh my god that's a riot and uh he goes don't get bitter you're gonna be all right i can and he was like very encouraging. But I was getting pretty, at a certain point I was getting like, I wasn't like bitter, but I was kind of like, what else do I have to do? It was one of those things where I was like,

what do I have to do? So that was advice that I really was like, yeah, that's good. Don't get bitter. And it's not, you see comics that get bitter and get, it hurts their comedy a lot.

Yeah. And it hurts their, socially it hurts them too because people don't no one wants to be around that energy yeah no one wants to bring a bitter comic to open for them on the road oh my god right so that was all like very that's really good it was really good advice i mean he's a wise man so uh yeah that was helpful um i heard a tell one say to another comic who was complaining about his career a tell goes get funnier

and he didn't mean it like you're not funny that's so funny it was a comic he respected I know it was for a fact a comic that Dave loved but he said it in a way where he was like what else are you gonna do that's really good so those were the two that stick in my head

for comedy advice at least it's funny because that's one good. So those were the two that stick in my head for comedy advice, at least, because- It's funny, because that's one of the best pieces of advice artistically I've ever gotten was, I've worked with Ira Glass on a lot of things over the years, shows and movies and stuff. And at This American Life, they have a thing, they're marking up your script, they write DB,

and it means do better. Wow. It's literally, it's not a criticism. It's just like, yeah, just do better. Just like this but just better yeah and it's like it's actually like always true kind of yeah you can always get funnier i mean that's the thing too is like dave is such a short swing with all his jokes they're just so tight so uh he's never saying it to be, he's always so generous with feedback and supporting comics.

So you never feel that it's hurtful the way he's saying this stuff. So he's so good. But he's just such a great writer that even his feedback is so like, boom, boom, get funnier. This is another slow round question. Can you think of a moment in your life

where in hindsight, it changed your life, but at the time you didn't realize that? There was a few. I mean, there was one I remember, there was a kid I knew growing up who killed himself. And that really made me be like, oh shit, I'm not doing cocaine ever. He was like a total coke head. And he jumped out of a 30 story building and I was in like eighth grade and I was like, I will never do drugs. I mean, I drink all the time, but like hard drugs, I never was like, I'll never touch.

And I probably would have done drugs if not for that. Wow. And I had a coach in high school who was so cool and he literally had George Carlin's voice. So everything he said sounded hilarious, you know? And he was like, if you ever do fucking coke, I'll kill you. Oh my gosh. And he was the man.

I mean, Coach Sadowski, the best, so. It's amazing how these people along the way, like coaches and teachers, like have this massive impact on you. He was so funny and cool and uh yeah he's like he was fucking hilarious like he would he would joke around with us you know he was yeah you those people that make you feel like you could just be yourself growing up or like yeah that's everything was there a group uh growing up that wouldn't let you in

you want to be a part of? I remember, not really, but I remember, and thank God they didn't, but I remember when I was at Tulane for like not very long. I was in New Orleans, freshman for Katrina. Great timing. I remember trying, like not trying to pledge a frat, but like seeing, like, I didn't know who I was.

I was doing standup already, but I wasn't like, who am I? Where do I fit in? I remember like going to a couple, there was like the a frat but like seeing like i didn't know who i was i was doing stand-up already but i wasn't like who am i where do i fit in i remember like going to a couple there was like the cool frat yeah and they were kind of like you know and then i went to like the deadbeat frat and they were like this is our guy you know i was like these were like the bad kids and they wanted me in and i was kind of like i'm not one of these guys so but if the cool guys wanted me maybe i would have been like maybe i should do this but then looking back i'm like that's not who i am you don't know who you are you're a kid so them not really embracing me was like great because i got out of there yeah did you leave college i finished in the city but i uh i wanted to leave college my mom was like if you drop out we'll

fucking kill you because your family like you you your family's like lawyers and yeah like business folks i know are you disappointment like i because i was for a long time oh really i mean they didn't openly say it but i think my mom and my mom is an artist and my mom's very uh like like loves that i you know use that part of my brain but i think also it's like my mom wants me to be writing like for shouts and murmurs she doesn't want me to be doing like clubs. She doesn't want me to be doing the St. Louis funny bone. She wants me to be, you know. So I think there was a period, I mean, I always think my dad would like,

I remember this was like my dad's idea of success. He was like, you got written about in the New York Times. I was like, they said I had a bad set. And he was like, I know, but it's the Times. He thought that was cool. Where do you want to go with the whole thing? It's like you have, seemingly you have like everything you'd want. Your audience comes to see you.

It's not like a general comedy audience. It's like a Sam Morrell comedy audience. I'm grateful for that. I mean, I remember the funny bones of being papered and they're just kind of, I think about all the time, like, man, it was so hard to write hours to turn over material when they're like, who are you? Oh my God. Free tickets. So I'm grateful for that. I don't know where I want to go. I think, uh, I have ideas for shows. I have

ideas for other things. I love stand. I always want to stand up to be the thing. It's so funny saying when you're doing papered shows, just so people know what that means. It's like when you're starting out, a lot of times you can't draw an audience. And so you'll go to a town where they've basically called people and said, you won tickets, which is hilarious and not talked about that much. Like, congratulations. You've won tickets to a comedy show yeah and it's to someone you probably

haven't heard of and then you show up and they make their money on drinks and food anyway and there's a drink minimum and that's like and that's what's called for comics like paper a papered room it's paper i was banned from the funny bone for a while because i remember i just walked a lot of people i don't know what i my agent called me she's like what did you do and i was like people walked out yeah they just all left and uh and she would call me like what did you do and i was like my act what do you mean what did i do they just didn't like me it's not like i really had a meltdown it just went badly i was like it's a mall in syracuse This isn't where I saw myself doing this either. But, you know.

What did you do? Yeah. Oh, I had a few of those incidents where the clubs were just like, you're gone forever. I think what's hard about papered shows is fundamental. And it exists everywhere. It exists on Broadway. There's all different kinds of places where people didn't pay for the ticket for whatever reason and they need to fill the room.

They need to, you know, fill out the room. There needs to be an audience for there to be a show, basically. Right. But fundamentally, it's the worst. As a performer, it's the worst existence because you're performing for people who don't want to see you. You're performing for people who have a general sense that they wanted to see a stand-up comedian. I know. Think about how shitty your general sense

of a stand-up comedian kind of is. It's a great point. Yeah, it's, I remember handing out flyers and stuff. You know, you try to get people to go see your shows in New York and be like, hey, comedy tonight, comedy. And they'd be like, oh, this is a good lineup. You'd be like, great lineup, great lineup. And then they're in the room and you go on first

and they're like, this piece of shit duped me. You know what I mean? So you did that when you were starting out? Of course, yeah. I mean, but those papered shows, they're terrible. Well, it's funny because you, in your special, you engage with the audience like a lot. I cut a lot of that.

Oh, really? Oh, yeah, because I only use crowd work if it weaves into a joke. No, it's amazing how it's seamless. You go in and out. You go into the crowd. You come out and do a bit. And it's like, I was just thinking when I was watching, I was like, are all of your shows like that?

I like to talk to them just so it isn't, so the rhythm of the jokes don't get too, I won't say predictable, but if they don't get too, I think it can bore you. Right. Where you're like, ba-dum, ba-dum, ba-dum, ba-dum. I remember Rodney would always do, Rodney Dangerfield would always do crowd work in the middle, you know?

Yeah. Like, all right, where you from, you know? And in the middle of the set, and you're like, oh, that's, why is he doing that? And I was like, he's doing that because of the jokes. Yes. So yeah, I do crowd work a good amount just to show them that you have that,

just to be like, hey, this isn't like, you know, I can do this too. I want to make the show special for you guys. You guys came out. I think it makes it feel like you put a little extra thought and I'll try to riff on the city I'm in too. Have you ever had a heckler incident where like, because it's almost like you're soliciting people to interact

and it's like, does that ever go too far? Yeah, sure. But also people say to me, like you post a lot of these weird crowd work things. Does that, you know, does that make your audience too rowdy? Do they try to interrupt jokes? It happens. It's very rare. The audiences that come to see me are very well behaved, unless it's in Florida. Then they're animals. This is like the working it out section of the show. We throw around stuff from the notebook. Yeah, yeah. I'm actually recently calling it, newly calling it from the notebook because I want comics to know these aren't done.

These are just thoughts. I wrote this down today, which is I was at a coffee shop with a painting on the wall that said resist hate. And I thought that's cool, but then they didn't have sugar. And I was like, well, this is where it starts. Yeah. Starts local. Oh, that's good.

Yeah. Resist hate. That is hilarious that people write that too. I know. Resist, because that doesn't even sound like don't hate. Right? Like don't hate makes more sense. But resist, you're like, try.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That sounds like try not to hate. I feel like you have a, in this special, don't you have like a, like a, either a coffee shop or something, someplace that has like a virtue signaling thing? A guy's wearing a shirt that says fuck racism. And I go, problem solved.

You did it. Problem solved. I say, I say, the joke is I say, everyone's got to wear their obvious beliefs in their shirt now. I say, I'm gonna go into my friend's birthday in a shirt that says against baby rape. Oh gosh. And he was like, why are you wearing that? And I was like, are you for baby baby rape that was a joke uh so it's like it doesn't make

i mean i i saw it on twitter a guy had an anti-human trafficking thing it's like do we have to announce this shit yeah can't we just uh can't we just go i assume can't can it be the honor system at some point i assume you're against it yeah yeah you know what is another angle for you is like are people bringing their hate to coffee yes yes are people is that like a recurring problem you have yeah where someone's walking in uh he goes i'll have a tall mocha and also fucking juice right oh my god i don't know something like that but like the idea that i don't think that's where the maybe the post office should have that. Yeah.

But coffee shop? That's really funny. I don't know. The post office angle is good. That could be something. Yeah. Right. Like where else would you put it?

Who's bringing their hate to the coffee shop? Yeah. What do you have in your notebook? I have a few things. Well, I have my notebook, but I screenshot some emails so I could look through stuff. What are your habits with jotting stuff down? Mitch Hedberg has that great joke about he's lying in bed

and he'll think of a joke and he has to decide whether the joke is good enough for him to get out of bed. I have to convince myself that what I thought of wasn't that funny. Yeah, yeah. I have my notepad and I have my phone and I have like, all right, here's an angle I had. I was reading that Elon Musk had eight kids. And I was like, man, I think that's where the ultra rich and the ultra poor kind of intersect is they'll both come in anything. I think like, I need like a better thing after this.

I think for like rich people, you're like, well, you know, I'm rich. It'll be fine. And poor people are like, my life is fucked anyway. I'll just,

I can't afford one kid. I'll have 12. That's really funny. It needs more though. It's not, it is something. Well, it's funny because it's actually like,

it's almost like a think piece. It's like a borderline, like it's a, it's like a pretty true, it's got a lot of truth it's a sociology statement rather than a joke there is something to that though i like like it's not a joke but it's like there is something to people being like i can afford to have unlimited kids it is lucky i mean yeah people are like yeah someone will raise the kids someone will raise them that's a funny line

yeah someone will someone in either case you're like someone will do this yeah that's funny someone yeah it's like i can afford yeah it's like if you have a staff if you have a staff of 200 people you're like well i think bob can do it but then if you're poor you're kind of just like i'll just leave or something i don't know i don't know i'll just move on to the next family oh my gosh i don't know i don't know i like that though it's great something you know what's good about this podcast i'm gonna like listen at the end yeah see where we need like notes i had um what else um i saw a guy in the West Village on a leash. Like he was in full bondage on a leash.

And my friend turned to me and he goes, hey man, he's just living his life. You know, you got to respect it. And I was like, I don't know if I have to respect it. I accept it. Like, so I think the angle is like, I don't think that's what Aretha was singing about in that song, you know?

But there's more here. Like they're like, what is respect? Like, what is respect? I think there's a difference between tolerance and respect. Yeah. I tolerate it. It's fine. But I just think it's funny that, like, I call my friend up and I say,

you want to go on a walk? I mean, an entirely different thing than this guy. Yeah. Because his friend just walked in. It's good. Yeah, it's like the colloquialism you got to respect that has gotten way out of hand way out of hand yeah yeah you got to respect it far yeah respect is oh i also thought it'd be like funny to do an act out here where you're just like like i don't see i don't think i see that guy walking by and

i'm like hey dude respect yeah you know something like that. Because you know what's funny? Maybe this is too far. But when homophobes are like, how am I supposed to explain that to kids? I'm like, well, that's homophobic. You know what I mean? But when you see a guy on a leash, you're like, how am I supposed to explain that? That is something that's actually hard to explain. That is maybe an angle.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. How am I going to explain this? Well, sometimes a man has a weird kink. No, and it's also, well, you, and it's also that thing of like, if you were going to explain that, you'd probably have to ask the person first, hey, can you explain this to me so that I can explain it to my kids? Yeah, I want to make sure I'm getting this right.

You get turned on when a man walks you in public? Yeah, yeah. I wrote this down. It's kind of a dark thought, but it's like, I think people want to believe in something. Yeah. Because sometimes I think it's because it's hard to come to grips with this concept that like my grandmother, for example, who I loved and respected, she died believing in God. And we can't conclude like, so anyway, my wonderful deceased grandmother was fooled.

You know what I mean? Like, we have to be like, no, God's with her, hanging out, swimming laps, eating pies. You know, we can't judge her. We gotta be like, whatever she's into. Oh, even like, it's like the second she dies, you're like, and scene. And so we don't have to pretend anymore?

It's like a hidden camera show or something. Gotcha. There might be something there. I think that's it. That's funny, yeah. That doesn't need much else. I think that's really funny. I could hear that in your voice, too.

That's the fun thing is like, yeah. And scene. Do we have it? Do we have it? All right. She's dead? All right. All right, we're going to move on. There's some of that. that's the fun thing is like yeah do we have it do we have it alright alright we're gonna move on there's some of that

which is a nice double entendre to it as well yeah I mean I'm laughing in the setup to that one just cause the idea of like you love your grandma everyone relates to having to play along

with your grandma no completely I mean I remember my grandfather would like play like Hebrew music in the car and he's like isn't this wonderful

and you're like yes I'm like in my head i'm like this stinks yeah yeah fucking music i've ever heard yeah but you love it so i'm i'm like yeah it's great music oh my god that's really because i love my grandpa it's really funny yeah the and then i got the i got um this is a cocaine joke and i don't mean to make light of it after after you were telling me about your friend who died. That's the thing. Believe me, nothing you say is going to offend me. I did this the other night at the cellar. I was in the Greenwich Village and this guy comes up to me and goes,

hey buddy, you look like you need some cocaine. And I go, no thanks. You were in that shirt? Yeah, exactly. It was probably this outfit. I go, no thanks. And he goes, sorry, wrong guy. Apparently there was a mix-up.

You look like you need cocaine. Oh, sorry, wrong guy. Yeah. Damn, yeah. Apparently he thought I was the guy who wanted cocaine, but it turns out I was just a total stranger. And then I thought, maybe I do need some cocaine. I'm pretty low energy.

Anyway, I bought the cocaine and here I am. That's how I ended it the other night. I don't know. I like that it's like, you look like you need cocaine. Oh, wait, wrong guy. And it's like, I like that he's like the least aggressive cocaine pusher of all time. Yes, very laid back cocaine dealer. Do you need some cocaine?

No? Okay, have a great day. Like, you don't see that guy often. You know, it was a funny conversation I had with my mom with my mom of all people once my mom's 82 years old one time she said to me um because my sleepwalking she goes well with your sleepwalking you should never use cocaine i go am i having a conversation with my mom about my sleepwalking that's what's stopping using cocaine yeah yeah exactly you should have said that to the guy you're like i sleepwalk i sleep me using cocaine. Yeah, yeah, exactly. You should have said that to the guy.

You're like, I sleepwalk. I sleepwalk. It's a whole thing. I'm so sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. He goes, you're the guy with the mom? No. That's a... It was like my drug talk I had with my mom

at like age 35. I swear to God. Like I'd never talked to her about drugs before ever. I mean, I do look like... I was talking about this joke with Jessie Klein on this podcast and she was like, there is like a, she's like, probably there is a Wall Street version of Mike Birbiglia who uses coke. You know what I mean?

Yeah. And I think that's a pretty good point. I feel like comics, the way we dress, like all of us at the Cellar, like, we're not the cocaine demo. Yeah, I don't think so. Like all of us, we have like backpacks and shit. They're like, that's not who's doing the coke. I know. You need a briefcase.

You need a briefcase. You need a briefcase to be a cokehead, I feel like. And then I, you have anything else? Let me see what else. I got a bunch of other stuff.

I don't know if I got good stuff. Let's see. This is an angle I'm trying to crack. I think I'm close and I can't crack this. So I have a whole thing about like, is it guns are the problems or is it mental health?

And I would say obviously guns, cause New Yorkers are all out of their fucking mind and I'm never scared. You know what I mean? Like I'll be on the subway and someone comes on screaming. Like I don't look up from my phone. You know what I mean? It's like, clearly it's a gun.

Like even if someone came on, even if someone opened, even if someone came on even i was even if someone opened even if they came on with a gun i think i would be like you better you better open fire if you want me to pause this audiobook so funny you know so i think about that i'm gonna pause this audiobook that's so good so that so that's that part is hitting that i want it further in that but then i realized i'm like there was a subway shooter but then i was like but he didn't really hit anyone did he i mean like he couldn't even hit there was a subway shooter. But then I was like, but he didn't really hit anyone, did he? I mean, like, he couldn't even hit. He was a bad shooter. Oh, is that true?

Did he hit anyone? I know he didn't kill anyone, I know. Yeah, yeah. Maybe he hit someone. I think my angle is like, if that was a Midwestern teenager, there'd be 14 dead minimum. But this guy. I think that one of the things I like about your jokes about, like, guns,

mental health, all this stuff is, like, actually, like, to our conversation earlier, it's like, it just stokes a conversation all this stuff is like, actually like to our conversation earlier, it's like, it just stokes a conversation about this stuff. Oh, thanks. Because I feel like it's like, it's like that joke, it's A, it's funny, but B, it's like true. I always have like a few gun things and I have to preface it in cities like, you know,

Houston or whatever. I'm like, I know where I am. Yeah, yeah, sure. All right, one last one, which is when I was a kid, we had friends who were like the rich family that we knew and they had mink coats. And this is the 80s before we knew

that fur came from dead animals. Mink coats. Mink coats. You live next to the Sopranos? That predates you, I think. You grew up in the 80s. You grew up in the 90s. Yeah, mink is weird.

That's like a, I guess that was, so that was like, that's so weird. You just think of it from being like an Al Capone or something. I didn't think of it

as being that recent. Oh yeah, in the 80s. That was a whole thing. Mink is nice. Oh yeah. I mean, do people still wear it? No. No, no. That was a whole thing. It was nice. Oh, yeah. I mean, do people still wear it? No. No, no, it was a whole thing.

Because you'll get paint dumped on you or something. Yeah, people dump paint on you. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it is. Look, I'm all for eating animals. That is a little showy. We end on a thing called Working It Out for Cause.

And I donate to an organization you think does a good job. Okay. And whatever organization that you like. Charity, yeah. Oh, that's great. I like City Harvest. I like what they do. Oh, yeah, City Harvest is great.

Yeah. I always give to food banks when I travel around the country, the local food bank. Nice. And City Harvest is amazing. So I'll give to food banks when I travel around the country, the local food bank. And City Harvest is amazing. So I'll give to City Harvest. And we'll put the link to that in the show notes. And thanks for coming on, man.

This is a great talk. This is fun as hell, man. Yeah. Yeah. Working it out, because it's not done. We're working it out, because there's no... That's going to do it for another episode of Working It Out. You can find Sam Morrill very easily.

He's on Instagram. It's Sam Morrill. That's S-A-M-M-O-R-R-I-L. He's also on TikTok. He is, I actually have to say, like, I love his, he's such a good joke writer that those clips are really fun to watch. So I would go on Instagram and TikTok, follow him on, at Sam Morrill.

Spends a lot of time on writing those jokes and they're beautifully crafted. Working It Out is produced by myself, along with Peter Salamone and Joseph Birbiglia, consulting producer Seth Barish, sound and video recording by Chuck Staten, with help from Gary Simons, associate producer Mabel Lewis, with help from Lucy Jones, sound mix by Shubh Saran, supervising engineer Kate Belinsky, special thanks to Marissa Hurwitz

and Josh Upfall, as always a thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers for their music, as always a special thanks to my wife, the poet J J. Hope Stein. Her book is called Little Astronaut. It's available now at your local bookstore. As always, a special thanks to my daughter, Una, who helped build the original radio fort made of pillows. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. I appreciate all of the little Apple podcast mentions saying what episode was your favorite.

It means a lot. It helps us find more people who might enjoy the show. So please, it goes without saying, tell your friends, tell your enemies, tell your friends again, then double back. Tell your enemies again, because let's face it, we're all busy. We all have a lot going on,

and multiple reminders are always helpful. Tell them two or three times. We're working it out. See you next time, everybody.