Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 94. Jorma Taccone: The Lonely Island’s Comedy Revolution

Episode Date: March 13, 2023

Mike and Jorma Taccone are old friends and former next door neighbors. Jorma also just so happens to be an acclaimed screenwriter, director, actor, and member of the legendary comedy team “The Lonely Island” with Andy Samberg and Akiva Schaffer. The Lonely Island made the Saturday Night Live classic digital shorts D*ck in a Box, Natalie Portman’s rap, Laser Cats, and literally a hundred others. One time Jorma even made Mike wear a wig to play a TMZ-type reporter in his film “Popstar." Jorma goes deep on the scrappy, DIY nature of the early Lonely Island SNL short films and how sometimes it’s better to show someone your absurd idea than to explain it to them.Please consider donating to Food Bank for New York City

your song, I Just Had Sex, has 338 million views on YouTube. How many of those do you think have had sex? It's become more of a thing on TikTok. People play it in their cars as their friend leaves somebody's house on the walk of shame. Oh, really? So I think a lot of people do. A lot of people probably have just had sex.

But I don't agree with that, okay? Celibacy until marriage. Guys, let's keep it locked. That is the voice of the great Yorma Takone, of course, from Lonely Island. They wrote sketches and performed sketches on SNL for years. They sort of invented a form. They were pioneers of a certain type of form

of short film that became massive. I mean, these videos they made have hundreds of millions of views on YouTube. I Just Had Sex, which was just referenced. Jack Sparrow, Threw It on the Ground. Lazy Sunday. I'm on a boat. The Natalie Portman rap song, which is super

famous and hilarious. These three guys came from the Bay Area. They started making these sketches on their own and then they went to SNL and it blew up and then they went on. Yorma directed the movie MacGruber and the series that sprouted from that. Peacock. They made the movie Hot Rod. They made the movie MacGruber and the series that sprouted from that, Peacock.

They made the movie Hot Rod. They made the movie Popstar, which I love. By the way, if you haven't seen Popstar, it's so good. And I'm not just saying that because I have a small part in it. I have like a little thing, ridiculous part where I wear a wig in it. We talk about it today. But it's a super, super funny movie. Yorma also used to be my neighbor. We lived next to each other in it. We talk about it today. But it's a super, super funny movie. Jorma also used to be my neighbor. We lived

next to each other in Brooklyn. We've been friends for a long time. We have such a good chat today. Before we get started, I just want one final reminder. I'll be in Mesa, Arizona this week. There's like 20 tickets left. Salt Lake City, there's only a few tickets left.

And if you want to stay tuned about more tour dates that are upcoming, subscribe to the mailing list at burbigs.com, B-I-R-B-I-G-S dot com. Oh, and I'm coming to D.C., but that's sold out right away. Same with Madison.

There are a few tickets left in Indianapolis. I'm going to be at the Helium Club comedy club in May with all new material I'm always psyched to go to Indianapolis and this is one of my favorite episodes we've ever

done if you've ever wanted to be a creative person or wanted to create something from scratch we talk a lot about the idea of creating something and showing people what you've created versus explaining the creative idea, which is something I heard Rick Rubin say recently in an interview, which I think is super smart. And I think Lonely Island and Yorma Takone are kind of the epitome of that idea.

Enjoy my chat with the great Yorma Takone are kind of the epitome of that idea. Enjoy my chat with the great Yorma Takone. We're working it. I always point to the three of you guys, you and Andy Sandberg and Akiva Schaefer, as an example for creatives of what to do. And the reason I say that is I think it's always better to do instead of to explain. I saw an interview with Rick Rubin recently, the great music producer, legendary producer, where he goes like a lot of times in the studio it's better to just play something

than to explain what you mean because everybody takes in how they hear an explanation differently and comedy and music i think are similar in in that of like trying to explain something funny rather than just making it uh even so far as writing it on a page and reading it, it's still not the same thing as actually seeing it executed. Not even close, especially with your stuff. But it's very similar in that way.

In that almost all of our stuff, because in the beginning we were just, we weren't really asking for permission, we were just sort of like we were getting approval to go out and make something. We were literally borrowing a video camera from Maggie Carey, who at the time was Bill Hader's wife Maggie.

She was working at a film school, and we would literally ask her to borrow a video camera. This was before SNL knew what we were doing. She would go to the lockup, get us a video camera. That's how Lazy Sunday was done. So you just did it on your own? Yeah. Like on the weekend, like on Sunday after you wrapped?

No, no. For instance, we did two little shorts before Lazy Sunday, but Lazy Sunday was our third short, the Christmas episode of our first year. And so, like, so as an example, we were using the computers that had just gotten fast enough that you could kind of do this thing. But we were recording in our offices with the Macs that they had in there that were used for writing,

but we were using them to, we would put sound programs on there. I made the beat for Lazy Sunday, and then we recorded it in our office. We had a mic that we had all pulled money for, so I think that we had brought out from LA the three of us and we recorded I guess you were a sketch group before you came on to SNL

so we recorded with Chris Parnell we were a fan of his raps that he had done like very violent raps that he would do on SNL about like Britney Spears or whatever and so like so we were like well let's do something with him and we had kind of had a similar song that we had like made before and we kind of were like

oh let's do like a mundane like a super hardcore like rap about like something mundane like going to see the Chronicles of Irony but we make this song in the office and then we get approval enough to be like hey on Thursday we're going to go actually record this sort of thing like do you guys mind like and they were like yeah you get a couple hours like we were out of the building

and I don't think we got anything on that week and we like recorded everything like ourselves, bought tapes for this borrowed video camera, illegally borrowed video camera, shooting on, I don't even know, mini DV or something like that. Yes, that makes sense. And then we recorded it, me holding onto Akiva's backpack,

as we're like, I'm leading him down the street, and I'm playing the song so that they can do it to track. So I'm doing like playback on like a Radio Shack speaker that we, so we like literally just like got it out of the building, did it ourselves

and then presented it to the show. And this kind of became how we did things, which was that like, so we presented the show. Everybody actually sees it for the first time at dress rehearsal. Oh, wow. For this christmas episode so we're about to go in like three weeks break lauren sees it for the first time like uh that in that dress rehearsal i think we maybe made a few little tweaks between just an air and then it airs and then but like but but that way

of doing things of just kind of presenting them to the show after we had executed them, it kind of helped us a ton because our humor was a little weird. It was a little... Like with anybody who's in a group of writers, a lot of our stuff was a little hive-minded in that one person has an idea,

the other person piggybacks on that idea, makes it weirder, or the third guy does the same thing. And like, and we kind of collectively create our stuff like that. And so it's hard to sort of explain why this is going to be funny. And so we, but we like,

but it helped us a ton at the show because when that first thing hit and people were like, what is this? And granted we had the, it's a huge advantage to be at the show and present something that's very other from the show. Like it was our first year was the first year that SNL went HD. So the show looked better than it ever had to.

And then when you cut to like this like podunk, kids making stuff with a video camera, it gave it this tremendous contrast too. But it was really helpful for us because that thing that you're talking about of not having to explain it and just execute it became a thing because nobody quite understood how

this first success had happened. It was like, whoa, these guys came out of nowhere and we made this thing, like Lazy Sunday as a thing. And then it kind of helped us because we never really presented anything to the show. We just were able to, everybody saw it at dress rehearsal

and was like, what the fuck is this? Yeah, I mean, I have to say, when I'm watching these shorts, I'm thinking to myself, if I was in the writer's room, I hate to admit it, but if this was pitched verbally, I don't know if I would be on board like if you came into

a writer's room we're like okay so the premise is it's kind of like these guys and they're rappers but they're kind of like color me bad they're kind of like this like lame rap group and then they're singing about like they're digging a box and it's like it's like a gift box and they're like look and it's like or even like it's like it's Lover, and it's like, I fuck your mother, you fuck my mother. I'd be like, yeah. You know what I mean? I love that there's, and now, years later, there's a show called MILF Mansion,

which is basically the premise of Mother Lover. You're like, great, so we've come a long way. A long descent. But if you pitched me Mother Lover, if you were like, so, I fuck your mother, you fuck my mother. I'd be like, yeah, Yorm, I don't know. It feels a little blue. It feels a little dirty for the sake of.

But then when you see it immediately, you're like, yes. Well, here's the advantage that we always had, which is that the three of us grew up together. Me and Akiva grew up in Berkeley. I met Akiva seventh grade. We all went to Willard Junior High and us grew up together. Me and Akiva grew up in Berkeley. I met Akiva seventh grade. We all went to Willard Junior High and then Berkeley High together. So our collective sort of touchstones for everything, both comedy and just like pop culture

and all that sort of stuff, like Color Me Bad, you're like all of that. I mean, we grew up listening to like H-Town, New Edition, all came from like hip hop, R&B, like dance hall, reggae. So what we liked was already like,

so in trying to explain something like that, even the costumes, we're all like, oh, it has to look like this. So it just helped because, and I always almost feel like this is like a little bit of a cheat in terms of people being able to make stuff together, is that you get, you're kind of insulated with that group because we think it's funny already. Right. You know what I mean?

So like, so that, that fear that you have as a solo, if it were you, if you were just solo trying to explain that to somebody would probably get beaten out of you a little bit. For sure. But because there's like three of you, us three weirdos in our, in our little hovel of an office just being like, ah, we think it's funny. It helped a ton. And then obviously, like, we were lucky enough to have some successes at the show, too, in the beginning.

And we were just, so it kind of was like, oh, let them do their thing and don't get involved too much, which is great. I mean, the advantage of the show, too, is like it's always been a show for writers and always been incredible in terms of like, as a young writer you know like some people are 20 like we met a ton of like simon rich like when i first met him he's like fresh out of college

yeah and they're like so there's kids like running that show which is like the it's why the show is good because it has this like energy of like yeah like you just got out of like you know whatever you've been doing and this is your first real job. Yeah. And then the show gives you this responsibility of, if you get your show, your sketch picked, the show's moving too fast. So you're basically in charge of kind of directing whatever sketch it is that you... Right.

So these kids are, like, getting to, like, go pick props and da-da-da. Right. But they're emboldened to be like, yeah, this is what's funny. Like, this is, like, I have to protect this. And if you don't protect it, you learn very quickly that like your sketch is fucked. Yeah.

So like, so, and then we have the additional advantage of being like, like we're protecting it because we're editing it. We're making music. We're doing all the parts of it. So it's, in addition to being lucky that like the show was encouraging of us doing stuff, it's also like we're in control of whether it's funny or not. I feel like in some ways you were able to, I was watching all of your shorts in sequence,

and I was like, the more you were able to do, the more you were able to do, it feels like. So for example, it seemed like, I remember seeing the Natalie Portman rapping and just being like, how did they get her to say this? Like, it's Natalie Portman being like, I'm going to kill your talk. It's like, how did this happen? And then did that create the opportunity to do it more with more people?

You'd have to, well, yes, for sure. Like the fact that we were able to have like Natalie. Yeah. One of our first big like, oh, she's wildly famous. She's been in like all that stuff. She was promoting V for Vendetta. She's like a big time star. Yeah.

But also like a cool young person too. And she came in and she was like, I want to do a rap. And we were all like, oh, no. Like we don't, it's a a very uh you know what we do as it's bizarre that what we do is like kind of for us one of the most hateful things you can do like fake rap i can't think of anything worse than fake rap oh yeah and we're very quick to be like it is not rap music this is we're frappers these are not this is not real rap music sort of thing i've seen real rappers and real rappers are incredible like you know like

we we sit there and do like a line like you know a ton of times and double it up and yeah a rapper can go in and like spit 16 bars like off like yeah straight through and it's great yeah that's not us so i think so so, but to the point, like having like another white person come in and be like, I want to do a rap. You're like, oh boy, do you really? But then she immediately starts spitting all these like Lil' Kim lyrics that she had

that are filthy, like fucking filthy lyrics. Oh, wow. That she just knew. And she's doing it hard. Yeah. Like to us in our little hovel of right, like, you know, our little office. That was just her taste in music.

Oh, yeah. She just fucking loved it. So she was like, and you were like, jeez, like, oh, my God. Like, all right, yeah, like, good. And she was like, you know, this basically is that filthy enough for you? And we're like, yes, that's exactly what we want.

Oh, my gosh. So you were like, what kind of thing are you thinking of? And then she was like, I like this, this, and this. Well, I think we had said that. When she said, I want to do a rap song, we were like, it's got to be kind of hardcore. And then she doubled down and was like, well, how about this level of hardcore?

And we were like, yeah, that's exactly how hardcore you need to be. It's pretty extraordinary. It's like this Oscar level of acting combined with this completely ridiculous concept. I'm always amazed. And I'm assuming through this show, you probably get a lot of that too, of what some person that you've always thought of, I think of them in this lane,

and then what it is that they like. It's like Daniel Radcliffe. Just watching him, he did Gifted Gab lyrics. He's a rapper from the Bay Area who sadly passed, but who's fantastic. And it's a really complicated rhyme structure stuff that he does. And having him on that Snite show doing Gifted Gab things, where you're like, oh, I would have no idea

that Daniel Radcliffe likes Blackalicious or whatever. When you were writing Lonely Island sketches, are you thinking, what's the turn? There has to be a turn? No, I think that they occurred naturally. So I think that we're all assuming there will be, but it's not like a conscious thing of when that's... We're not thinking along those lines. It's not like two plus two is comedy kind of thing for us necessarily. along those lines.

It's not like two plus two is comedy kind of thing for us necessarily. But who we are and our level of either boredom with our own ideas. Right. Or not.

I was going to say, is it boredom? Or not wanting to repeat ourselves. Because that was the other advantage slash disadvantage of the show

was being like, we did something like that last week. So it did help that there were three of us and there's always sort of democracy. Like if two of us understood the idea and the third guy was like,

I don't understand why this is funny to you guys, that guy leaves the room. The other two work on it and then the other guy comes back in and will say like the ABC of like what their problem with the idea is. Usually like, so one that would help us in terms of like if one of us had a

problem with idea then we would work on it until that third guy's satiated you bring them over and like and either the logic is tighter because of that or the joke is funnier because of that or or we get to the kernel of like why why it's better now with the the three of us thinking through something but the the other advantage is that that piggybacking thing that i'm talking about of just like when one of us is bored with the fucking idea, we're moving on. We always had a, at least I always think about this with editing, of like the dumber the joke,

the faster you tell it, for us at least. Or you don't tell it at all if it's too fucking stupid. What do you explain? I just mean like, it's like we never wanted the audience to get ahead of us. Right. So I think that that led to turns of just mean like, it's like we never wanted the audience to get ahead of us. Right. So I think that that led to turns of just being like, either we've done it before, like last week,

or something we did like two years previous, or whatever it is. And so we just always wanted to challenge ourselves to do something different sort of thing. And having the three of us, or honestly like some of the people who we worked with, like Justin Timberlake, like working with him, he's a funny dude. So it's not like in those later shorts, he would actually spend time with us

and he's actually like adding to the mix as well. So just having... Who's Justin Timberlake? He's an American recording artist. Did you discover him, Justin Timberlake? No, but what's funny about Justin is that I think the three of us, me and Andy Cave, were always much more self-deprecating.

And Justin is a man who is both handsome, wildly talented. He's got a lot going for him. And clearly always has been. So I think that is not my life. Mickey Mouse Club, like age nine, I think. Yeah, exactly. So I don't think he's had many failures in his life so like so the fact that we could write something to your point about like like how would you know this is good we feel like we know like everyone's gonna love fucking dick in a box justin comes in we we're messing around

with that the minute we're done he's like is it is a hit really hit and we're done, he's like, is it? Is it a hit? Really? This is a hit. And we're like, what are you talking about? Wow. Guys who are going to get arrested for putting their penises in boxes at the end of this video. This is a hit. I mean, that's like a perfect example of like on paper, if you pitched in Blazer Cats to me, I would just go like, yeah, maybe. I think that what makes LaserCats work, and maybe I'm completely wrong, and you can explain to me the logic of it,

is that you really want, your characters really want to convince Lauren that it's good. I think that that was one of the things that I actually learned at SNL. Not actually, we learned a lot of things at SNL. But was that without the context of, Laser Cats is basically like two 12-year-olds making their own film and bringing it to Laura Michaels. So it's like Annie and Bill Hader

have made a short film called Laser Cats where there's been a nuclear war and now cats have the ability to shoot lasers out of their mouths. So everyone's using them as weapons and some so sometimes they're real cats and sometimes they're fake cats and part of it came from me cocking my own cat as a gun and pretending to shoot my wife with it with it yeah you're just going amazing that we're still together. But without the context,

and it may have been Akiva that pointed this out, but he was like, you need the audience, and this is often the case with any SNL sketch, to look for what the joke is. And if it was just two 12-year-olds making a short, you'd be like, I don't want to watch this. But having the judgment of them presenting it to an adult man who's seen everything and is over everything and knows this is fucking horrible.

And then we would always, so they pitch it to Lauren. He says, this sounds like a bad idea. And they say, wait, let's watch it before you judge anything. And then it is bad. And then we would choose the worst, most embarrassing moment in it. And then be like, no, you cut back to Lauren just being like, yeah, I Just Had Sex, has 338 million views on YouTube. How many of those do you think have had sex? It's become more of a thing on TikTok.

People play it in their cars as their friend leaves somebody's house on the walk of shame. Oh, really? So I think a lot of people do. Yeah. A lot of people probably have just had sex. I wonder. But I don't agree with that, okay?

Celibacy until marriage. Guys, let's keep it locked. Let's keep it locked. Yeah, yeah. If you get anything out of this interview, it's don't have sex until marriage. Yeah, no, that's the key. I think that's the message of Lonely Island generally.

Always, always. In a general sense, yeah. So there's a deep undercurrent. No sex before marriage. I don't remember that song, though. No, yeah, yeah. Well, you got to read Between the Lines. I mean, maybe this is neither here nor there.

The people who love your music, some of them are the people who the three of you nerds would not like probably so much. Yes, there was a little bit of a thing that we had with that in terms of the expansive... I mean, obviously, you make anything, and then you don't know where it goes or how it's going to be. I mean, they seem...

To be clear, you're nerds. Yes, we're total nerds. I'm not going to disagree with that. I don't think anyone's going to disagree with that. You're losers. But you make something like I'm on a boat and then like you see it being played at like Lake Havasu or whatever and you're like, oh, well, I didn't expect you to go there.

What's that? It's like frat culture, like spring break level, you know. The January 6th riots they played in. Oh, my God, it was huge with that crowd. But you know what? Insertionists buy sneakers too, as Michael Jordan would say. Oh my God. I don't know if he would say that now.

I bet he wouldn't say that now. You and I just had sex. You have John McEnroe singing, I just had sex and I'll never go back. John McEnroe, one of the greatest tennis players of all time. You directed him to say, I just had sex and I'll never go back. Did you ever feel self-conscious directing someone like that? I can't even remember how that happened.

That's the miracle of SNL because there's so many people that come through. I mean, like going to the show. Like for instance, I met, the first time I met Paul McCartney was just coming out of a doorway. I'm sorry, can you repeat that sentence? The first time I met Paul McCartney, I didn't have, by the way. We're going to just do a pickup on that again. You're like, he's coming out of Lawrence's office and you're just like, hey, this guy

is like meant the world to all of our parents. I'm sorry, we didn't get sound on that. Go ahead again start up with the first time I met Paul McCartney Paul McCartney yeah

you become Shy Ronnie Shy Ronnie Paul McCartney yeah the older I get the bigger of a dick

I think I sound like but you're like or like in the hallways like Barack Obama Senator at the time

Senator I'm sorry we didn't have sound on that go ahead again so but you're like, or like in the hallways, like Barack Obama, senator at the time, senator. I'm sorry, we didn't have sound on that. Go ahead again. But you're like, you're literally shaking hands with people. But like, to your point, I don't know how the McEnroe thing happened. Like it was like, maybe he was in the building? Right, right, right, right. You know, like why is he in it?

When you go, so you guys were in the Bay Area. You grew up together. Yeah. And then you didn't all audition for the show, right? Just Andy did? No, me and Andy both auditioned for the show. Oh, you and Andy both did, but Akiva didn't. Yes. Okay.

And again, we had a different, like our lives in LA and how we got to the show were slightly different than most people. Because most people are like, either they're doing like standup relentlessly, which Andy did a ton of, or they're doing live sketch stuff on like ImprovOlympic or UCB

or like wherever they've come from. But they've honed characters and sketches and things that they are good at and know work on stage. So the fact that Andy did as well as he did, I mean, Andy auditioned, I think he had two auditions. I had one, because I think they knew. But it's like the most nerve-wracking thing I've ever done. Like, I vomited twice before my audition.

Were you on stage at 30 Rock? Yeah, so we met a lot of SNL folks our second year of writing for the MTV Movie Awards. We specifically worked for the MTV Movie Awards because we get to write for famous people. Kind of what SNL is, of just being able to make famous people do crazy shit. And have a budget to do it.

Who was hosting? Our first year that we wrote for him was Lindsay Lohan. The second year was Jimmy Fallon. Okay. So when Jimmy was on the show, like Steve Higgins, who's now Jimmy's guy and like a big producer on SNL still. Yeah, of course. Yeah.

And so like Higgins was there and a bunch of SNL writers. So we got to hang out with those guys and kind of not endear ourselves. But when it came time to go to bat for who gets even auditioned it's hard to even get an audition Andy had kind of proven himself just worthy of auditioning

so Andy got to do it and then I think because we were a trio they were like do you guys want to audition too and I was like yes I was more of a performer but I would say i sort of leaned more almost uh more drama even than but like but but equally to andy like i didn't have i didn't even have a stand-up experience or anything so like so i just you have to do like what is it's like five it's like five uh characters and or like it's four characters and three impressions or whatever.

It's some, you have to do this many. But we were making it up like days before we went on. So I think so. And I was just glad that I got one good laugh out of Tina. I could tell it was her. Like just in the dark. You just go up and you're on camera. It's being beamed to Los Angeles too. So I think it it was her. Like, just in the dark. You just go up and you're on camera. It's being beamed to Los Angeles, too. So, it's fucking terrifying.

But I did an impression of a 13-year-old at a bar mitzvah, like, who wants to dance but can't. So, it was a lot of, like, just, like, nervously, like, picking up his pockets. Oh, I like this song. Like, not saying anything. It was no words. Oh, my gosh.

But, like, I got a solid laugh out of Tina. So you know what? That was almost more worth it than getting the show. I'm just kidding. When Andy got offered it, did you talk among the group of like... Yes, there was a period in which we knew Andy was hired and there was about a week or so,

or however many days it was where they weren't letting us know whether we were going to be hired as writers as well. And me and Keeve, Keeve had actually gone in and had a writer meeting with Lorne. And so the fact that I didn't have that

meeting and I wasn't going to get picked for the show, I mean, the people that got in that year were like hater of Andy. I'm just making excuses now of why I didn't get it. But they're fucking hitters. Well, that cast was crazy. Sudeikis was in that in those years. Incredible people sort of thing. It wasn't too surprising.

I think mine was a little bit more run-of-the-mill. Forte might have been in there. Wig might have been in there. Wig got hired that year. So it wasn't too surprising that my, I think mine was like a little bit more run of the mill, kind of like, oh, he's solid, but not like. Forte might have been in there. Wig might have been in there. Forte was already there. Wig got hired that year. I mean, it was, our class was, I don't know if you'd describe it like that, but like.

Power group. Incredible. Yeah. And all really sweet, very encouraging, like it almost felt like a different kind of, because I remember like we watched like documentaries before we got to SNL that were all like, it's cutthroat, nobody laughs at their shit,

because nobody wants to have their shit get passed over in YouTube because they laughed at it. And it was not like that for us. At least our class was very encouraging. And maybe it was because we had our little insular group that maybe I didn't experience any of that kind of feeling of just competitiveness in that way. But it was also that people were doing really well too you gave me this amazing note because I did a series of readings for don't think twice

at our apartment which you and I were next door neighbors for like a period of years and so you and your wife Mari would come over and help give notes and read parts and don't think twice you gave a note that's like a pretty seminal part of the film which is you were like you were like when keegan's character gets snl you were like uh it's not snl by the way it's a different show weekend live yeah weekend life it's a totally different show you you can't retroactively sue anyone but you said you said, like, when you started working at SNL, you were like, just when you walk in, there's an awe that you have when you walk through the halls of irreverence. You're just like, I can't believe I'm in these halls and I'm supposed to be here.

And you said to me as a filmmaking friend, you know, you were like, you should really give Keegan's character a moment to take it in. And we put that in. And I think it's one of the most important parts of the whole movie. It's just a silent moment where he's looking up at the portraits on the walls. It's funny that it actually gives me the feeling of like the hair standing on the back of my neck, remembering how that felt for me multiple times too.'s not just like once there's there's so many moments because you're sleeping there i slept there twice a week usually on shitty couches and uh and you're like granted they're probably not the same couches as fucking belushi's like but you're like but you're like the people that have come through here and

the legend and even it's even like people who are only on for a season like larry david's on the wall fucking like you know it's like sarah so all these people that you don't even think of yeah as like like oh like yeah like where you're like holy shit the people who have come through here and the fact that like not only are you allowed to be there but to have any success there whatsoever is like is is mine is mind-blowing. This is called the slow round. So do you remember growing up like an inauthentic version of yourself? Like where you cringe looking back on yourself

like growing up? I don't know if this is inauthentic, but I got into, I was like goth-ish for about, like in high school, I was going, so we all went to Berkeley High. And then I went to, for two years, I went to, I left Berkeley High. I went to a Catholic all-boys school. And I was in, my friend wanted me to be in a punk band called Rive. I didn't play, he was like, you just play power chords.

And so during this time, I bought like cargo shorts and like a wallet chain. I mean, there were people who did this probably successfully, but not me. And like Doc Martens. And then I met on a BART train, I met a girl who went to Cal. I was like my junior year of high school, I met a girl who went to Cal. I was like my junior year of high school.

I met a girl who went to Cal and because I was like a Berkeley kid, I think I was probably just more, like we were all drinking at like 14 and don't drink while you're 14. Don't drink or have sex. Those are the two. Absolutely do not do that.

Those are, he didn't make songs about them, but don't do them. No, but like, but so i met this girl from cal cal berkeley was just college and she was a freshman and so i ended up dating this girl and i was very impressed with myself because i'm like i'm dating a college girl who was like a goth so she like dressed me in like um black flowing skirts and like we went to like uh like goth clubs in like a gil, which is a pretty big punk club. Wow.

It's like where Green Day and Operation Ivy and a lot of those kind of early Bay Area, the ones that popped off. But yeah, I would say that was... Operation Ivy, that's a throwback. Inauthentic. Isn't it? An inauthentic version of myself, yeah.

Can you think of a moment in your life that you realize now changed your life, but you didn't realize it at the time? No, because it was us now. But if I really go back, it would be meeting Akiva. Meeting Akiva and Andy, yeah. Andy was like, we were always sort of, because Andy's two years younger than me,

a year younger in terms of classes. But meeting Akiva, I think, changed my life, me and Andy's life in particular. Because Akiva was always the most motivated dude I've ever... Is he the nerdiest of the group? Yes, in terms of technical savvy, for sure. Yeah, I learned editing from Akiva.

But he's just, he was always, it's interesting that going back to the confidence thing, he was going into credit card debt when me and Andy were so paranoid early days, post-graduating from college. And me and Andy were like,

we would all take shitty temp jobs occasionally through a temp agency. But Akiva was always just like, yeah, fuck that. I'm just going to go into credit card debt. And then he paid it off his first week at SNL. But he was always just very confident that he was competent enough. I don't think he was ever thinking,

I'm a genius, da-da-da. But I think he was just always confident that we could do it. If we applied ourselves correctly, which was making stuff and honing our, I wouldn't say craft because that sounds fucking up its own butt, but just continuing to learn and produce and make stuff. And he was right.

And I still don't have that level of confidence that Keefe has. Better now, but he just understands things in a different way. And I think I would give it up to Keefe in that way. I mean, I think that we all have our own motivation and are very motivated people. And we all have our own lane kind of thing. Like, I mean, we're very much like Andy's Alvin, I'm Theodore, like the pudgy Theodore,

and Akiva's Simon. So yes, the nerdiest one. But I do think that I don't think without Akiva, I don't know if we would be where we are. That's interesting because in Popstar, you break into your dynamic a bit. And then we kind of steal each other's dynamics. Right, right.

There's definitely a bunch of Lawrence and me. I'm the one who's out on the fucking farm, but I'm in New York. Right, so Akiva's character is out on the farm, which in real life is you in New York across the country. Yeah, like elements of it, yeah. And then what's your character? So in Popstar,

if people don't know, like basically, it's like a boy band that was huge. Yeah, they're like, we're kind of the Beastie Boys, basically. Sort of the Beastie Boys.

And then... We break up. They break up and then they go different directions and then they all come together. Yeah, and Andy's character becomes wildly famous

and successful in almost like a Bieber level of fame. And then I become like his DJ who keeps getting relegated further and further back and being treated less and less like a friend. And then Akiva is so mad about the breakup and a certain kind of disrespect that he got that he sort of loses his mind and goes to a farm. And then we come back

at the end of the movie and we're buddies again. But in real, and of course, I was in the movie as the TMZ guy. Of course, of course. CMZ.

Which is, I shot one day. It was like half a day. It was like half a day. The amount of fucking footage we got from you guys. It's like nine minutes of the movie.

It's fucking great. It's you, Arnett, I mean, it's like. It's Chelsea nine minutes of the movie. It's fucking great. It's you, Arnett. It's Chelsea Peretti, Eric Andre. It's such a good group, too. Also, by the way, that's super fun for just comedy people to have you and Eric Andre and Chelsea all together. But also, Arnett's fucking murdering. Arnett is one of the funniest people on the planet.

I think all of us, me and Eric and Chelsea, fucking murdering. Oh, Arnett is one of the funniest people on the planet. And I think all of us, me and Eric and Chelsea and Will, were just trying not to laugh. I mean, we're in these crazy wigs and outfits. Do you remember the bit that he did? I don't even think it made it into the deleted scenes where he's getting super excited about something and he's clearly like coming on himself. Oh my God.

And then he's behind a little. I remember in real life. And it's the TMZ bit where he's like leaning over a cubicle so you don't see what's happening on his lower half. Oh my God. And he's like leaning against this wall and he's like. Yeah, no, I remember this. And then he, but he does this bit.

I filed a complaint about this. I have never heard back. And then he does this bit at the end where he wipes, he does this bit. I filed a complaint about this. I have never heard back. And then he does this bit at the end where he wipes, he clearly wipes his hand on the back of the cubicle. And you're just like, oh, God. This is horrible. Like the level of detail. That's so gross.

Anyway, Lego Masters is a great show. He's an all-American, now Canadian, treasurer. I was at the MacGruber premiere. In New York? In New York. Yeah, yeah. Jenny and I were like, and we didn't know you at the time, Jenny and I were like, this is going to be the biggest comedy in like the decade.

This is so funny. What's also sad and made me feel really good and then very bad when it actually came out was that Val Kilmer, who plays the villain in MacGruber. And, you know, he was in, I think he was in Top Secret, which I think was the first comedy that I saw that I was like, oh, I didn't know adults were allowed to be this funny. Yeah. So it blew my mind.

I'm just like, this is incredible. Yeah. And so, and he was like, I've only been wrong about one movie before. Of what was going to be successful. No, before this. He was like, this is going to be huge. So now he's been wrong about two movies.

Yeah. And the other movie was Top Gun. He was like, it's not going to work. This is not good. He didn't think Top Gun was good. He didn't think Top Gun was going to work. That's amazing. So he was wrong about that, and then he was wrong about your good company.

But his taste in comedy was so, like, I was just like, the fact that he was in Top Secret, I was like, this is great. And then what happens, like, what- And then just to give people context, like, the movie is a cult hit and spawned a series. Yeah, years later. Ten years later, yeah. But didn't do, like, big box office numbers akin to, like,

Bridesmaids or something. I mean, the things that were, it did box office, it just didn't do, like, mega. It basically made its budget in box office, which is not good. And then Popstar, I would say similarly, did well, but it didn't do box, it didn't do mega. And then Hot Rod, same thing. And then Hot Rod, same thing. It did well but it didn't do box it didn't do mega and then Hot Rod same thing

and then Hot Rod same thing it did well but didn't do mega so we have like three cultish kind of movies but it's such a bummer

when when you're why you made something and and like is truly for you yeah

to like make your friends laugh and you think you're successful at it like I always knew like I'm like I'm very proud of hot rod i'm very proud oh yeah for us us making hot rod for us making uh pop pop star which is very hard movie to make we edited for seven and a half months on that like we would we fucking work that shit into like the shape it is oh yeah and then mcgruber same thing like like we and it's beloved i mean pop star i think more people talk to me about pop star than any movie i've ever been in and i'm only in it for five minutes yeah yeah that's people

it's beloved yeah i mean and and and granted like at this stage in having made stuff like it was like it was we would definitely sort of know like oh people are going to find it six months a year later like like like for the people that care you know like we've made things that i'm like oh i'm not embarrassed by these things. But it's still having that like that initial weekend. Like, I mean, I've been with my wife for 20 something years. So like I don't know what that feeling of like a breakup would feel like. But that's as close as I can imagine to the feeling of just like America doesn't like you.

So I think that opening weekend of being like, oh, you know, I mean, like Hot Rod came out. It was the same weekend, but it was like you know, I mean like Hot Rod came out same, it wasn't the same weekend but it was like right around the time that like Superbad came out and they were like, oh, that's success.

People love this shit. And we were having like, we're friends with like Jonah and those guys and like, yeah. And they were all, they all loved it.

Yeah. Jonah. Fucking hell. Jesus. Yeah. Jonah Hill. I'm like the real Lauren of this podcast

you know when Paul said to me Simon or oh my god but you were friends with people who were having like like mega hits

and they liked it like I've always had like the moments of like you know like and after the fucking MacGruber series like Stiller Ben Stiller called it was like, I've always had like the moments of like, you know, like, and after the fucking MacGruber series, like Stiller, Ben Stiller called and was like,

it's so good. And like, and so I've had those moments of like people that I really respect liking the stuff that we do, but not that moment of like the, which is like so great that like people love Palm Springs. Like, like, like,

like Kiva's movie, Chip and Dale. Like, I mean, like to have an actual, which I wasn't involved with, but to have an actual success and be like, oh, people like this.

And it seems like it did well. I mean, I don't know how you quantify fucking streaming, but like, you know, like. I think that we're going to wrap it up. I think the lesson of the whole thing is threefold. Make your own things. If you're creative and you're listening, make your own things instead of trying to pitch them.

Yeah. Make whatever it is. Small scale. I mean, you guys were making stuff for practically nothing. Yeah. So I would say make your own things. And then I would also say yes and a group. Like yes and with a group of people.

Because what you guys did with Lonely Island is yes and this. Yes and even more bizarre. Yes and even more bizarre. And then I think the final lesson is that don't take sort of financial failure in the moment or whatever it is to be what the long game is of your piece of art,

whatever it is, whether it's painting or an improv group or sketch group or stand-up or whatever it is, because you actually don't know. You literally didn't know. I was at your premiere of MacGruber, and it didn't do the amount of business you thought, and you were really disappointed. And now it's like a cult phenomenon,

and became a series, like 10 years later. Yes. Those are my three lessons of the Yorma Takone experience. Yes. Do you have anything to add to that? Yeah, you learn from all of it. And there was an article that Larry David wrote 15 years ago, I can't remember how long ago,

where he was talking about LA versus New York. And his quote about LA was, and I think it just applies to Hollywood, was, if you can't make it here, you can't make it anywhere. That's very funny. And I think that what he meant was, if you're reasonably intelligent and you just keep going, and you keep learning and you don't going. And you keep learning

and you don't take those failures as like, I'm done. I gotta go become a lawyer or whatever it is. If you're a creative and you're learning, just keep going. It will happen eventually. That's obviously a very fucking privileged

position for me to be like, it works out. My dumb ideas are able to, but like, but like, but, but it's, I do think it's, I think it's true. Like, you know, and you, and you find, you find your, your, and even if it, if, if the thing that you're making is so, it's for the fucking 2% of America or the world, that's still a lot of people. The richest Americans.

The richest, that's what I lot of people. The richest Americans. The richest, that's what I'm talking about. Just the richest. No, but if it's some obscure, weird cartoon you want to do, there are people that want to see it. This is what George Carlin said, supposedly,

and I love that he said this, which is, he goes, I don't need to be popular with 90% of people. I need to be popular with like 1% of people. Yeah.

But really fucking popular. And who are really into it. Who are really into it. And they have money. And finally, we do working out for a cause. Is there a nonprofit that you contribute to and will contribute to them and we'll link to them in the show notes?

Brooklyn Food Bank, i would say should be the charity that people should donate to that's very lovely that you do that you and i both live here and uh this is uh i've contributed before it's foodbanknyc.org we're going to contribute to them we're going to link to them in the show notes thanks jorm Jorma, for coming. And I can't wait to see what you do next. Thank you, Mike. It was a pleasure. I'll come back anytime. All right.

Working it out, because it's not done. Working it out, because there's no hope. That's going to do it for another episode of Working It Out. You can follow The Lonely Island on at The Lonely Island on Instagram. Andy Samberg, Akiva Schaefer, Yorma Takone. Those brilliant, brilliant folks. I just can't wait to see what they do next. Our producers of Working It Out are myself, along with Joseph Birbiglia and Peter Salamone.

Associate producer Mabel Lewis, consulting producer Seth Barish, assistant producers Gary Simons and Lucy Jones, sound mix by Ben Cruz, supervising engineer Kate Balinski, special thanks to Marissa Hurwitz and Josh Huffall,

David Raphael, and Nina Quick. My consigliere is Mike Berkowitz, special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers for their music. Special thanks to my wife, the poet J. Hope Stein. Her book, Little Astronaut, is in bookstores now. Special thanks, Jack Antonoff and Bleachers for their music. Special thanks to my wife, the poet J. Hope Stein. Her book, Little Astronaut, is in bookstores now.

Special thanks, as always, to my daughter, Una, who built the original radio fort made of pillows. Thanks most of all to you who are listening to our little podcast. We are approaching 100 episodes, and you can do us one favor. You know what that favor is. You know. I don't even have to tell you. You go on Apple Podcasts,

you just say literally in the comments, just say, what is your favorite episode? Because when you find a podcast, so often you don't even know where to begin. People go, hey, you should listen to Working It Out. But no one specifies. You got to listen to the episode with Zarnagarg. You got to listen to the episode with John Green. You got to listen to the episode with Zarnagarg. You got to listen to the episode with John Green. You got

to listen to the episode with John Mulaney. And so what I'm saying to you is, you tell people. I'm putting it on you. But it actually really does help us out, and it helps us sort of reach more folks. Again, thanks most of all to you who are listening. Tell your friends.

Tell your enemies. And if you don't have any more enemies, let's say you've converted all to you who are listening. Tell your friends. Tell your enemies. And if you don't have any more enemies, let's say you've converted all your enemies at this point. You've been listening to the podcast. You've been doing the homework, so to speak, converting enemies into listeners to the podcast. I would go out and make some new enemies. You're on the subway.

You're holding on to the bar. You can flash someone a look. They go, what are you looking at? You go, my eyes were just looking in that direction. I'm sorry about that. And they're like, what? And then you're like, let me tell you about this podcast. We're working it out, everybody.

I'll see you next time.