Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 95. Nick Kroll: Old Friends

Episode Date: March 27, 2023

Nick Kroll and Mike met in college and started doing improv and sketch comedy together. Since then, Nick has become a comedy superstar, from his Comedy Central series Kroll Show, to Oh, Hello, to the animated series Big Mouth and Human Resources, to roles in films like Don’t Worry Darling and the Hulu series History of the World Part II. Now the old friends sit down for a candid conversation about Nick’s new projects, memories from their college improv days, and how comedy benefits from silliness. Plus, Nick shares a gem of a story about F. Murray Abraham from his and John Mulaney’s legendary Oh, Hello Broadway run.Please consider donating to the Natural Resources Defense Council

The idea came like Mel and his producing partner, Kevin Salter, came to me with Searchlight to be like, do you want to do History of the World Part II? Name drop on Mel, by the way. My dear friend Mel. You said Mel. We've known each other for 25 years. We met when we were 19.

You just said Mel Brooks, but you didn't say his last name. I'm sorry, but I have to acknowledge it. You know, Mel and Marty came to me. That is the voice of the great Nick Kroll. I love that, Nick Kroll. One of my oldest friends. You know how with your friends, sometimes over the years you have less in common with them?

Nick is the opposite. We have more in common. And he's just such a lovely person and a brilliant actor and writer and producer. I mean, you probably know him from The Kroll Show, from Oh Hello on Broadway, from The League. I've done a bunch of things, you know, with him. I did Human Resources on Netflix.

I was the role of Barry, which is a fantastic animated show, which is an offshoot of Big Mouth, which is a hilarious thing that he did with Mulaney and a whole bunch of other great people. I mean, gosh, Nick's resume is so long and illustrious and great. Don't Worry Darling, which we talk about on the show today, which I love and I highly recommend.

And, of course, his latest project, History of the World Part 2, which is talk about on the show today, which I love and I highly recommend. And of course, his latest project, History of the World Part Two, which is on Hulu now. It's so funny. Here's my testament to how funny it is. I love it. Our producer, Peter Salomon, loves it. And then we talked about it so much that,

we talked about it on the podcast so much, that I'm in Utah on tour last week with my brother Joe. And of course, Joe came on the trip because I have shows there. And then he's like, well, America's guest is going to come along and turn this into a ski trip. So we went skiing. It's absurd. But Peter and I were talking about it so much that I hear Joe turn on History of the World Part II, and he's laughing. I can hear the laughter through the walls. I don't know if there's a better advertisement than you can hear the laughter through the walls of your hotel.

We talk about that today. By the way, I am working on new material on tour right now. So I had a great time in Utah, in Arizona. There's a few tickets left in Indianapolis for my shows in May. Small club, like Helium Comedy Club, great club. And then Philadelphia, I just announced. There's a few tickets left for that. That's in June.

And more to come. All of that, just stay tuned on the mailing list on burbigs.com. Sign up there. You are the first people to know about anything that I'm doing. And I have a ton of new material. I've written a ton of stuff. You'll be hearing it on this podcast for the next few months. There's some exciting guests coming up.

I've been watching HBO's The Last of Us. Completely obsessed. I mean, it's very dark, but it's also extraordinarily well-written and well-directed and acted. And we might have a special guest come on from that show or involved with that project soon. So maybe you might have to study up. There's nine episodes. My talk today with Nick Kroll is so fun. We talk about History of the World Part II. We talk about Mel Brooks, F. Murray Abraham.

You might know from White Lotus is having a moment right now. He has a funny oh hello story about that. We talk about Don't Worry Darling and all the bizarre drama around it. It's such a good movie. And then I have some questions for Nick that came from our college improv group text

chain. So that's a unique element. I think you're going to love it. Enjoy my chat with the great Nick Kroll. The thing that killed me was the thing you had Kumail Nanjiani, our friend, in about Kama Sutra. It's like a pun on Kama Sutra and soup. Yeah. And it was one of those things where I'm laughing so hard and I'm just going like, how do you, and I deal with this all the time, how do you find the line between what is just downright stupid or silly stupid and silly enough to be funny

and stupid enough to be okay? Yeah. I mean, generally speaking, I unfortunately do love a pun. I do love wordplay. I don't remember where it was like, I remember early in my career, someone was like, it's not cool. Puns aren't cool or wordplay is not cool.

And I'm like, yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, that's not cool. And I spent my entire career being like, what about the Kama Soup Jack? Like in every, I mean, it's unfortunately, it's so much built off that. And then it's then, like, sometimes, because sometimes you just need to weigh into a bit,

and then you're like, okay, what are, I mean, then literally the whole bit is wordplay, I guess. Yeah, it's a series of soups. It's Kumail suggesting, it's like two, he's pitching two people on Kama Soupra, and it's like sex positions, and it's also soup. Yes, the corresponding soup. And they're really interested in sex positions.

He's really interested in the soup. Yeah. It's all like doing the show is interesting because it's sort of like back to something that I hadn't done. I mean, there's long form sketch in there that feels more like the other stuff I've done, but like some real straight ahead, like sketch. Yeah.

Which I have not done in so long, really. Well, since Kroll's show probably. Yeah, but even Kroll's show wasn't, was almost never straight ahead, like sketch. Yeah. Of like, here's a premise and here's like the game and let's play the game. It was always like, here's this fucking self-important idiot ruining other people's lives. Right. Which was

like basically every. Rich dick. Yeah. Everything was always some version of that, but it was more like, it was more like vibe, mood, tone than it was like, this is the joke. Let's play, let's find a bunch of different ways to play this joke, which the idea came like Mel and his producing partner, Kevin Salter, came to me with Searchlight to be like, do you want to do History of the World Part II? Name drop on Mel, by the way. My dear friend Mel. Mel. You said Mel.

Yes. We've known each other for 25 years. We met when we were 19. Yeah. You just said Mel Brooks, but you didn't say his last name i'm sorry but i have to acknowledge it you know mel and marty came to me uh marty feldman who's been dead for many years but no uh not marty scorsese um but it is i mean you know it's weird this thing where i totally do just casually be like Mel, because, you know, they came to me a couple years ago being like History of the World Part II.

And it was like, well, of course, whatever you want to do. Of course. Like, I'll do whatever Mel Brooks, I will do whatever Mel Brooks asks of me. It stopped my life. Yeah. And I did. I would throw my body into traffic. I would throw my body into traffic. I would throw your body into traffic.

Wait a minute. But that's not anything. It's a sacrifice for me. No, it's not. Think about the trauma of me seeing you get lumped, like hit by a car and that noise. Come on. That'll really stick in my head,

the noise of a RAV4 thumping over your body. Oh, I feel terrible about this. I thought this was like a one-for-one. I go, yeah, I'd throw myself into traffic. You'd say, you'd throw yourself into traffic. And I would emotionally by watching you get hit by a minivan. But when Mel Brooks was like, do you want to do this? I was like, of course.

It was the opportunity, one, because that movie, History of the World Part I, was a super important movie to me growing up. It was like one of three VHSs that we owned. Forget about it. Same. And then The Producers becomes like my favorite movie of all time. Yeah. and then the producers becomes like my favorite movie of all time.

And obviously then you're into Blazing Saddles and Young Frankenstein. And Spaceballs is where I sort of, I was not a big Star Wars guy. Can I come out on your podcast by saying, I don't give a fuck about Star Wars? I think there's a Reddit thread that has already formed. We have a direct line that goes straight to Reddit. Well, hey, Reddit sub-thread,

the cross-section of people who are passionate about Star Wars and Mike Birbiglia. It's probably... What do you think the Venn diagram there is? Small. Yeah. So, to that very small population of people, I don't give a fuck

about Star Wars. So, I like Spaceballs, but it didn't appeal to me in the same way. Didn't hit you hard. Yeah. But so they asked, it was a no-brainer because, again, I would do anything, but also because I love that movie. And then it was sort of putting the team together. And I think inside of that, there was this agreement amongst all of us as we began to work on it was like

brought in wanda sykes and then brought ike baron holtz and dave stassen in to help you know for ike to star in it and for dave and ike to be like you know in the writer's room with with me every day and and crafting the whole thing but the overarching feeling was like when you go back and watch mel's stuff he's not mel bro. I won't say Mel anymore. No Brooks. When you watch Mel Brooks' stuff, he's really not political. Even though he's doing history, he's— Sort of apolitical. He's apolitical.

He's always got a target on the powerful as being like dumb, greedy idiots. Yeah. But he's— Fuck the poor! Yeah, exactly. But it's never like finger waggy it's always pretty like and and and also he but then he is it's silly and it was like and i think all of us at this moment in time there's something cathartic about going back to just being like kind of silly because i

feel like comedy has gotten kind of serious at times. And so because of, and this is what, I want to talk about cancel culture. You can't say anything anymore except everything. Everything. 99% of the words, you're good. And then that 1%, I'm furious about it. I'm so mad. And I'm so mad that I don't get asked about it more in press. Yeah.

We need more questions. About what we can't say anymore. And every journalist is like, and Jerry Seinfeld won't go to colleges. Right. Jerry Seinfeld was huge on the college circuit before. I was just like, what? In 1976. I know.

Yeah, Jerry Seinfeld can't go to the University of Indiana in 1977. That's absurd. I got, yeah. I changed it by one year. So. So, yeah, to do something silly is cathartic. It was so fun. It was just so fun to do something stupid.

Like, you know, I don't know. Did you, I don't what what episode it's in did you see the uh like the saving private ryan sketch yes it's amazing the band of where we internally called band of barfers oh my god it's so stupid and silly and fun you know what i mean jen left the room oh really she couldn't watch people throwing up of course it's disgusting but it is. She left the room, but she loved it. She was laughing super hard, and then she goes,

I must leave the room, and then she left. Well, that's great. And then she threw up. And then she threw up on a boat on the way to Normandy. That stuff is so, it was so fun. Again, just so kind of silly and like, let's just play this game and be fun. I'm loving so much of the stuff you're doing recently.

Your Netflix special, History of the World Part II. And Don't Worry Darling. Don't Worry Darling, you're so good. Everyone's so good. The movie's fantastic. Thank you. I watched it like a week or two ago. Jenny and I both loved it.

What a weird rollout of that film because it went viral at a European festival because a bunch of things. There's drama. You kissed Harry Styles on the mouth. Harry kissed me. Go ahead. Okay.

He kissed you. Is that true? Yeah, he kind of grabbed me and kissed me. I was not expecting. I was not. Yeah, I was not expecting. Did you file a report? Yes.

Well, there was no intimacy coordinator at the film festival. Okay, so then who did you file a report with? With the city of Venice. Oh, wow. Weirdly, but it was the city of Venice, California. So I fucked up the paperwork. Right. So all I was, so what I got when I sued

was a incredibly wide brim hat and leather cuff bracelets. When I sued. Oh, you settled them? I settled with the city of Venice. So he kissed you or he initiated a kiss with you. But then I didn't realize until I watched the movie, it's a callback to the movie. It happens in the movie. So when I was watching it out of context i was like i don't

understand why harry styles and nick are kissing yeah but okay yeah nobody did which was so funny that's what i was like when it happened i was like oh that's funny he's doing a he's kind of calling back what happened because we were that makes it you had just seen the movie yeah but nobody else on right in the world had seen it So it just looked like he was kissing me on the mouth. But then when, which I was like, that's crazy. But only later when we were at like the after party, did I start getting texts in about like, did Harry spit on Chris?

Yes, I saw it. It was the weirdest couple of days. And I was like, huh, I don't think he did. Because like I sat with Chris right after the premiere for like 45 minutes and had dinner with him at the after party and I think he probably would have mentioned at some point to me hey like you think it's weird that Harry spit on me right before the premiere like there was none of that it was just the we it was so weird. The whole thing was so weird. I don't, by the time I saw the film, which was recently, I was shocked. My experience of it was, oh my God, this movie is amazing.

And I had been distracted by, I fell for the bait of being the distraction from the stupid internet you know people people go to see things sometimes because they're just like oh I heard this horror movie is great I don't care who's in it I don't care what's going on but like oftentimes people are going to watch something because they're interested in Mike Birbiglia or they're interested in Harry Styles or they're interested in uh Florence Pugh or they're interested in whoever is at the center of this, like the personality behind the thing that they're watching. But when that, the story of whoever that person is can't like overtake the piece of art that they've made. And it's really hard to navigate, like, where does one

fall inside of those things? Because people want to know, like, people want your story. They want the intimacy, the, like, the little tidbits of your real life, because it helps them connect to your art. But once that, once that, those, those little details and intimacies of your life or, or the not even intimacy, the broad strokes of it take over, overshadow the art. It's a bummer for the art. And I'm not,

there's no, I'm not blaming anybody for anything. It just, it just happens to everyone. Yeah. I think that's right. And also that, and also making movies is extraordinarily hard

and for all the crew and all the cast and the director and everybody and the idea that the story that people run with is something other than the movie is kind of bizarre maybe more people saw it because of it maybe I don't know

I will just say and you know this having made a bunch of movies, it's so hard. It's so hard to get a movie made, and then it's so hard to make a movie that makes sense that even when I don't love a movie, I'm like, it was awesome. They made it. Yeah.

And then when something's really good, it's like, holy shit, that's unbelievable. That's the thing that i've developed with age like when i was in my 20s i would be like i would be like i don't like that movie or i don't know i was more snarky i was like more snobby and as you know in my 40s i'm more like hey good job getting that done. When we met, we were 19. We were in college. We did improv together. And you were one of the funniest people I've ever met in my whole life.

But I know a lot of people in my life who are really funny, and they don't go from here to where you are, which in my opinion is like here. You know what I mean? Thank you. So my question is to you, how do you get there? Well, I think Kanye probably said it best. No?

Have you been following the news or anything? Yeah, I've been following it very closely. He said a whole thing about it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But I think he was right in that way. Jesus Christ. We control the media, so it's been a very easy one.

Don't do this. Don't do this, Nick. As your friend, I'm saying don't do this. I'm going to lose my Bonobo sponsorship. Too late. The deal's already done. Oh, my gosh. My gosh.

I haven't had it. My Take 5 deal's been done for years. Take 5? Those are literally the two corporate sponsors I've done. In your special, you say, literally, the only sponsors I've ever done is Take 5. And I'm like, not so fast. But that was before the Bonobos windfall. Yeah, yeah.

But anyway, I think... Bonobos, by the way, love ya. This is Bonobos, I think. There you go. Yeah, yeah. We're all in for you guys. But I think it's a... I think a mutual respect for both of us

is the consistency of just working hard, like literally putting in the hours yeah is like you kind of we you can be very talented um and and succeed but most of the time you have to be talented and also just like be relentlessly working at what you do in all different ways. There's just no substitute for it. There just isn't. You just can't. I know. You know, like, you just can't.

I mean, every once in a while, someone can be insanely talented and lazy and become wildly successful, but it's usually short. Yeah, it doesn't last very long. But I think part of it is, it's the company you keep. So in other words, like, you and I were in an improv group when we got in college and then we got out of college and all we were doing was going to UCB and doing improv and doing open mics and you and Mulaney were doing

Oh Hello downtown and like Long Before Broadway and all this stuff. And it's like, it's almost like living it. Yeah. Well, and that's what I, I don't, generationally, like we were still very much had to be in physical spaces. So our community was, you know, we would go to, whether it was like a comedy club or Upright Citizens Brigade or open mics or whatever, you were still going to physical spaces with eat constantly with people.

And like, you know, we meet in college and then I meet all the people in New York that I become friends with and work with to this day. It is about finding your people, your community who are, you're just like, whether you're working with them or not, you are in conversation with them about your process. You're seeing them every night at the club. You're seeing them every night at UCB. You're seeing them at open mics, whatever it is. And I think kid people now coming up are making so much of their stuff in their own spaces. They don't need to be in physical spaces with each other. And so I guess, but I guess they have each other digitally

in a way that like must be incredibly freeing and exciting in just a different relational way. Well, the new version of that in my life is like, I became friends with Atsuko Akatsuka who's in History of the World Part 2 also. Yes, yes. And it's great. Just from social media. Right. I just liked her stuff

on Instagram and I was like, hey, want to come on the podcast? And then we became friends and we started touring together. Yeah, and it becomes I guess that's the way. It's a whole new thing. It's a whole new thing and that's why I'm now just mainly, mainly working with influencers, not people in comedy in any way. Must always be influencing.

Always be. Must see influencing is what I pitched to NBC instead of must see TV. And it's not going to be on Peacock. It's on the network. Oh, my God. And it's influencers lip syncing episodes of friends. Oh, that's strong. And I think it should, as I say it out loud, I'm like,

that actually does sound like it might work. Yeah, yeah, no, no. The moment you said it, I thought, hey, that's it. When you made a history of the world part two, did you get Larry David's blessing to use the music from Curb? Because you set the life of Jesus and Judas, who betrays Judas,

you play Judas, to Larry Damon's music from Curb, and with some of his cast members. Oh yeah, so it's we do a bunch of different versions of the story of Jesus and Mary, and this one is called Curb Your Judaism,

where I am. It's hilarious. I'm Judas, who's like a Larry-esque character. And J.B. Smoove is in there basically playing J.B. He's Luke. And it's like an episode of Curb. One of the main reasons we did that sketch is because the Curb Your Enthusiasm song is library music. Is it really? Yeah. So I was like, we were like, well, heads up out there, folks. Library music. Yeah.

I do think, by the way, the Venn diagram of editors and audio editors who are fans of Mike Birbiglia is probably maybe bigger than that Star Wars Venn diagram. Yeah, it's big. So this is for them. They know that Curb is public domain, not public domain, but library music. So is one of the NFL songs. Okay. So for those out there who are editing stuff together and need that. That's nice. one of the NFL songs. Dun, dun, dun, dun. Dun, dun, dun, dun. Okay. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. So for those out there who are editing stuff together and need that.

That's nice. So we mainly did Curb Your Judaism because we knew we could use that song for free. That's ridiculous. You didn't call Sir Larry David? No, you know, we didn't. We were like, should we ask Larry to do this? And it was just like, why make him say no to us that's very funny

you know what I mean do you know I'll say this and I don't think he'll mind me saying this so about a year ago he calls me and he goes Mike I'd never met him Mike I've been listening to your comedy albums they're very funny I never call people like this I swear to God that's so cool I was like Larry this is like one of the nicest things anyone's ever done for me. I appreciate it so much. I talked to him for 20 minutes. It's lovely. Dream come true. You're talking to Mel Brooks.

Royalty. Sir Larry David. I go, would you ever consider coming on the podcast? No! What's in it for me? Exactly. It's like, he goes, and it's a fair point he goes he goes i can only lose it's true he goes no one else is gonna watch my stuff from it and i can only say the wrong thing and get in trouble he's absolutely you're not wrong he's if you're larry david you're not wrong. If you're Larry David, you're not wrong.

You're right. He's not like, oh, he's building an audience by coming on your show. No. And so we didn't even, honestly, we didn't even bother asking him just out of respect. So I'm publicly saying I did not get Larry's blessing. That's very funny.

Lawsuit. We're on a text chain with our improv group from 20 years ago. A solid 20 to 25 years ago. And my question to you is, every few months... We've been on this text chain for a long time. We go on this thing with our five or six friends, and we make fun of people from college still. We're 44 years old when does

this end i don't think ever i think it becomes the only way that any of us can actually i don't i wonder if there are text chains that are nice like are do you know what i mean or is it all because i feel like i have a few different versions of checks chains with various friends. Yeah. And they all revolve around talking shit about people in common for us. And in our case, it's people from like 25 years ago in college that we are continuing to bond over as we did 20 years ago. Yeah, more kids. Yeah. And now we're 44-year-old men.

With children. With children. No less. I mean, we we're 44-year-old men and... With children. With children. No less. I mean, we also talk a lot of shit about our children on the show. That's not true. That would be amazing. So, okay, so I asked the chain,

I took you off the chain the other day secretly and said, hey, I'm interviewing Nick. Oh, and then that's when you restarted and put the name in? Okay. Yep, put in the names. And then I said, do you guys have any questions for Nick? One is from Conrad, which is,

was Nick there when we flew back from Ed's first wedding with an infinitesimally small amount of weed in our luggage? And when we changed planes in Chicago, they called us to the desk and told us they had called ahead to New York and they couldn't guarantee we wouldn't all get arrested. I think I was on that plane. I think I was like, wait, why are those two guys getting talked to? And it was, and yes, I mean, so I was,

I don't remember feeling as though I was going to get arrested. Yeah, yeah. No, you're not. Cause I wasn't, I mean, in that case, like it. Yeah, yeah. No, you're not going to get arrested. Because I wasn't. I mean, in that case, I was like, the weed ain't in my bag, bitch. Oh, nice. Good defense. Good defense. Did you remember that? Were you on that fight back?

I wasn't on that one, yeah. I mean, I remember that first wedding. I remember that first wedding. By the way, I told Ed, this is how close we are as friends. He goes, will you come to my wedding? I go, I don't go to second weddings.? I go, I don't go to second weddings. I'm sorry, I don't go to second weddings. I don't know.

I know that it's going to be controversial. I know that's a controversial take. And I'm like, I barely go to first weddings. I work on the weekends. I work nights and weekends. But he's like, but it's my wife's first wedding. And you're like, yeah, but it's your second wedding. Classic defense of the second wedding.

I think that's fine. I don't think anyone should have to go to anything for anyone. Agreed. So I was watching your special, which is so good. And what's wild about it is because we're friends, it's very autobiographical. So I know the stories from when they happen. You talk a lot about this breakup that was really hard. You have this really sensitive thing where you go,

I fell in love for the first time when I was 32 and I had my heart broken when I was 33. I was a late bloomer. And it was interesting because I'm being someone who does autobiographical storytelling also. You do? Oh my God, please. Really do? Oh, my God. Please. Really?

I didn't phrase that. I didn't phrase that in the proper order. No, you didn't. It would be so funny if I was like, oh, that's what you. Oh, I thought you were a topical prop guy. Okay. But when you said that, I was like, I found myself just really hooked in and I know the story you know what I mean but it's one of those things where did you find that when you were telling

that story on tour you know in preparation for the special that audiences would just like lean in kind of thing yeah I mean I think it's the the whole the whole special was an exercise for me in doing stuff that I had not done a lot of, which was be autobiographical and be very much like, here's my story. Like, I felt like I was have always done a lot more like character stuff. Like, and so it was an exercise in trying to be more vulnerable. And, and, you know, honestly, having watched you do that to such great effect and success over the years of being like, this is really my story. And, and whether every moment of it is exactly what happened in your life, or the essence of what it is, is what, like, coalesces into a story that is very truthful and grounded in who you are. that is very truthful and grounded in who you are.

I think I was like, oh, I think there's my version of this that is autobiographical and hopefully has depth to it that will hopefully bring the audience in, in a way. And I think the first time I did the hour of it was on one of your shows when you were... Oh, at Cherry Lane. Yeah, and I guess you were in the early stages of working on The Old Man and the Pool. That's right. And I did the, and it was whatever that was.

We were like back-to-back slots on like a Monday or something. Yeah, you let me come in and try it out because I was doing my first like date of that. And as you know, it changes and refocuses and stuff. But there was a lot of that stuff about the breakup. And I remember you being like, wow, that was quite emotional and surprising. It was, you were very kind and gracious about what I was, both the comedy of it, but also what I was trying to do on a larger level. So it then becomes, as you well know, like this weird honing of like, all right, is this interesting? Is this emotional?

Is this funny? Is it both like, and what can be And what can be discarded if it's only one of those two things? Yeah, it's funny when you watch someone else doing something that's something you do and you go like, oh, right. Like when I'm hooked in is like when you're saying this thing that's emotional about the breakup, I'm like leaning in. Specifics about like the Plymouth Voy emotional about the breakup, I'm leaning in. Specifics about the Plymouth Voyager and the Fettuccine Alfredo, I'm like, I'm in. But it's such a testament to specificity is what pulls people in.

Yeah. Well, my little philosophy is that inside of specificity is universality. So I'm going to speak about very specifically about my life or in in this case of the special or or the work that you do and inside of that somehow my very specific life will hopefully seem universal because it doesn't matter whether it's a plymouth voyager or f Fettuccine Alfredo. It's like we've all fallen in love and we've all shit our pants. The tagline for your special. It's now too late, but I wish I had.

We've all fallen in love and shit our pants. And we've all fallen in love with the shit in our pants. Oh, my God. What's the best piece of advice you've been given in your life that you used? The best piece of advice I've received. So my therapist looks a lot like Frances McDormand. And is kind of like her. Okay. Um, and I, I think it was the year that she was like, um, doing all the, she won for three

billboards outside of. Yeah. I remember that one. Yep. Um, and me and Melanie had hosted the, the spirit awards and she won. Classic. She, this was the, the, and she won. Oh, my God, classic. This was the, I think the second time we'd done it, this was the year that she was winning for,

she eventually wins the Oscar. The three billboards. Yes. Yeah. And so it was the night before the Oscars. I had seen her that day at the Spirit Awards, and she's trying to leave like a fancy, the night before party, like a very fancy Hollywood party.

She's trying to leave the party with a coat over her head, just trying to like get at, like in general, Frances McDormand was probably trying to get out of Hollywood parties. But in this particular moment, she's really trying to get out of this party because she's going to go fucking win an Oscar tomorrow. So she's trying to leave there and I'm feeling brazen because we've hosted that day. I'm like, Franny, Franny, Franny.

And she stops and looks at me. And because I had, and I felt emboldened because I had hosted the award show that she was at that day. So she looks at me and she's like, hi. She was like, yes, I will engage with you right now. And I go, Franny, I got to tell you, you look so much like my therapist. Oh, my God. And she goes, she looks at me and she goes, okay, then let's do the work. Oh, my God, that's so funny. And she like looks at me and she goes, okay, then let's do the work. Oh my God, that's so funny.

And she like looks at me and she goes, the most powerful thing you can do is say no. And I was like, okay. She's like, good night, I'm leaving. Have you met my husband? I'm like, yeah. And I'm like, oh, I was like, hi, I'm a big fan. And he was like, really? Like it was that funny moment.

Like you're- It's Ethan Cohen, right? Yes. Everybody's a plus one at various times in their lives. And so Ethan Cohen was like, you know who I am. I was like, yeah, I know. I'm a fucking, I'm a fan. So anyway, my point is that piece of advice that stuck with me, I rarely take it.

That's great advice. But saying no is great. There's nothing more powerful that you can do than say no is a really powerful piece of advice. I think saying no is important. Saying yes is important. It goes back to improv. Yeah. What would you, you and I started together in improv. Uh, we did improv together for on and off for five years. Do you remember any scene we ever did together ever? No. I remember we had graduated college.

You guys had graduated a year before me, moved to New York, started doing improv. And we would rehearse together. And when you're early on, you're just rehearsing and an older, more experienced improviser would come and gives you notes afterwards and stuff. And Michael Delaney was watching us and i was very nervous and insecure and i sold i just remember selling out scenes yeah like being like well this is fucking stupid yes and and i remember and delaney being like don't do that and

and i remember the group being so bummed at me for selling the scene out. Yeah. Because, so I don't remember any specific scenes, but I remember that day very clearly being like, oh, it's not cool to like, be like, it's not cool to not try. Yeah. And that was a, so I don't remember any specific scenes, but I remember that very clearly, that day. That's a really interesting point because that was taught to me in a parallel way by my director, Seth Barish. When we first started working together, I had

a lot of stand-up jokes which were commentary on the stand-up comedy joke not working. And he would just be like, you might want to just pull that out. And I was like, but it does work. And he was like, right, but the long game of it

is that you're kind of, I'm paraphrasing, but you're kind of decreasing the audience's confidence in you as the narrator. Yes. Oh, Hello was, I think, the most I've ever laughed on Broadway. Really? I think it's the most I've ever laughed. Really? More than Les Mis?

Gosh. When I saw Phantom, I laughed in the first act, but I really, it lost me in the second act. but it's, no, the laughs in Hadestown

began from the moment the workers come in. The moment when the, things are moving. I don't know. I didn't see it. No, I laughed so hard, and then I was in it. I was the guest that night.

And you guys just broke me so hard. I'm just laughing through the whole thing. And then the sandwich is outrageous. me so hard i'm just laughing through the whole thing and then the sandwich is outrageous what what is the most unhinged the oh hello broadway performance ever got where you're like oh we're really off script well so uh i think the probably probably the weirdest of it all was, this is going to take a second to explain, but in the show, you know, me and John's characters are putting on a play

and in the play near the end of like, as the, we wrote basically the third act, by the way, improvising on stage on Broadway. Like we had not worked out what the third act of that play was until. So like, that's why the show could go from an hour 30 to two hours and 10 minutes based on how much within the play. Yeah.

How much we were fucking around improvising, trying to find things. And so like we locked that show on the, probably the last weekend of the, the, of the 140 shows we did. Wow. So there's a moment in the thing where there's going to be a cameo,

a special moment when a guest star is going to come out on stage, F. Marie Abraham. We would refer to him as like, John would go, my friend F is waiting backstage. And then Gil is about to shit his pants and the play then falls apart. The play within the play falls apart. It all falls apart. I'm walking around the West Village

and I tell this story partly right now because F. Murray Abraham is now just in White Lotus and everybody now I think is like re-familiarized with F. Murray Abraham on a level that like, he's like, oh, it's the grandpa in White Lotus, right? We've been obsessed with F. Murray Abraham for a while. Brilliant actor. He's a brilliant actor.

And so I see this guy walking around in a puffy Teamsters jacket in the West Village, and I'm like, I think that's F. Murray Abraham. He goes into the post office, and I wait outside the post office for him. This is in real life? This is in real life. This is what happens when we're in the middle of Oh Hello. Okay. I go up to him.

He walks out of the post office, and i'm like uh mr abraham uh my name is nick kroll i'm doing a broadway show with my friend john mulaney and as soon as he hears broadway he's like he's sort of intrigued by whatever i'm about to say i'm like we do this play where you are supposed to come out as a special cameo then something happens the play falls apart and you never appear on stage i would love for you to come and be a part of our show. Mulaney, I've already called Mulaney. So Mulaney's like en route trying to come to F. Marie Abraham. This is a wild story.

We're on like 6th Ave and like 10th Street. And he's like, uh-huh. Okay. Uh-huh. And so I was like, so I'd like you to be a part of the show. He's like, so I never appear on stage. And i was like so i'd like you to be a part of the show he's like so i never appear on stage and i was like correct he's like so in a way i'm already doing my job and i'm like yes technically you are correct but i was like but we would just like you to be on the show you know he's like ah yes i was like do you have an agent he's like ah yes yes yes let's make this

official yes and he gives me he goes into his phone and we can't help but like peek at his iPhone that he only has like four contacts in. One of them is his agent who he puts us in touch with. And then he comes to do the show. He shows up, normally the guests, you know, in your case, you came and said hi. We would always have the guests come backstage and say hello.

If we didn't know them, it was a chance for them to like get to know us and see us before like the mania of the weirdest thing in the world, which is you're watching a show. Then you walk up on stage in the middle of the show, you get interviewed by the people who are doing the show and then you're, you leave. It's a very surreal, it must be a very surreal experience. So we would meet everybody before and, or we would catch up with like an old friend like you. So he comes five minutes before the show. He's like, I'm going to get a dinner.

Please have a bottle of champagne waiting for me when I return. So he leaves, we start the show. We're told, we don't know any of this because he's not there until five minutes before the show, before he's about to get on stage. He has a drink from this bottle of champagne he's requested. And then he walks out on stage

and has almost zero context of who we, what is happening in any way. This is during the play? This is during the play. So he's a bit like guarded and slightly skeptical about it until there's a moment. Is that the Lyceum Theater? Yeah.

That's this crazy story. I had no idea. Yeah, so he then is sort of like, I mean, he's being lovely, but he's just a little bit like, you know, he's F. Murray Abram. He's a serious actor, and these two fucking clown fish are on stage like, fake old people. Yeah, fake old people with bad, silly, frumpy outfits. Anyway, but he's still lightly enjoying it. And then, you know, silly, frumpy outfits. Anyway.

But he's still, like, lightly enjoying it. And then we find out, by the way, F. Murray Abram is not from Europe. He's from, like, Pennsylvania. Yeah, yeah. The Madonna accent kind of thing. Yeah. It's those older actors where you're like, where in Europe? Like, are you from Serbia or England?

Oh, no, you're from Pennsylvania. Right, right. Uh-huh, yes. And he, but then also he'd spend a lot of time in, like, El Paso. He's like, yeah, I grew up right near the no, you're from Pennsylvania. Uh-huh, yes. But then also, I'd spent a lot of time in El Paso. He's like, yeah, I grew up right near the wall. And I made some joke of like, and what were the glory holes like? Or something like that. And then he looked at me and burst out laughing

and all of a sudden realized and decided that this was going to be very fun and like, ah, improvisation. Oh my gosh. And he then like lights up and has a blast and the segment ends with me singing and Mulaney and him, Mulaney slow dancing F. Murray Abraham off the stage.

Oh my gosh. So the last thing we do, because I have a hard out, but I have to go. I know you have to go. I actually have to. The final thing is- I have to go. No, no, I'm going to wrap it up.

But I have to leave. You can wrap it up because I have a hard out and I have to leave. I'm sorry to cut you short. I'm sorry I'm going to have to cut you short. You know, I think we just have to finish this up because I actually have to leave because I have other leave. I'm sorry to cut you short. I'm sorry I'm going to have to cut you short. You know, I think we just have to finish this up

because I actually have to leave because I have other things. I'm sorry. In my ear, my producer's telling me we have to wrap. I'm so sorry, Nick. All right. This will stand, right? Yeah.

Working it out for a cause is where I donate to an organization that you think does a great job. Yeah, sure. The NRDC is a good organization. We both perform for them, but they do the nuts and bolts, the not-so-sexy work for the environment. They're the ones who are getting Flint to actually clean up their water. That's right.

The pipeline in North Dakota, they block that. It's not like sexy, but they're like going through the courts and getting things accomplished for the environment on a level that is incredibly helpful and tangible. I'm going to give to them NRDC.org. You can as well. It's linked in the show notes. Thank you, Nick Kroll. I'm going to say I love you. I don't say well it's linked in the show notes thank you nick kroll i'm gonna

say i love you i don't say i love you at the end of the episode i love you i love you man which is one of my first films that i was in uh directed by john amber doing more plugs okay we can't plug anything else i'm sorry we're gonna well i have to go so i'm gonna cut this off i'm gonna cut off the i'm gonna we're gonna edit out the I love you man part I love you too Mike I love you too I love you man too available streaming on FUBU

that's gonna do it for another episode of Working It Out. That's Nick Kroll. You can find him on Instagram at at Nick Kroll. N-I-C-K K-R-O-L-L Watch History of the World Part 2. Watch Don't Worry Darling.

I couldn't recommend these projects more highly. Watch his special on Netflix. His Little Big Boy. It's fantastic. Our producers of Working It Out Are Myself, along with Joseph Birbiglia and Peter Salamone. Associate producer Mabel Lewis. Consulting producer Seth Barish. Assistant producers Gary Simons and Lucy Jones. Sound mix by Shubh Saran. Supervising engineer Kate Balinski.

Special thanks to Marissa Hurwitz and Josh Upfall, as well as David Raphael and Nina Quick. My consigliere is Mike Berkowitz. Special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers for their music. Jack was involved with that great new Lana Del Rey album that just came out. There's a Bleachers collaboration song on it called Margaret, which is gorgeous. Gorgeous song. Just a showstopper. So check that out. Special thanks to my wife, the poet

J. Hope Stein. Her book, The Little Astronaut, is in bookstores now. That's a good one, by the way. Mother's Day is coming up. That's a good one to order. Special thanks, as always, to our daughter, Una, who built the original radio fort made of pillows. And thanks,

most of all, to you who are listening. If you enjoy the show, please do us a favor. Take 90 seconds. Maybe 80 seconds. Go to Apple Podcasts, put five stars, and just write, honestly, just write who your favorite guest was. That's it.

That little thing. Just, you know, it helps us out. Happy birthday to Tig Notaro, by the way. That's another guest you could write who would be one of your favorite guests of all time. That episode is a riot. It's literally, you know, we edited it.

I listened to it like a hundred times, and it still makes me laugh. So maybe put Tig Notaro, or you could put happy birthday, Tig Notaro. That'll really confuse the commenters. Thanks most of all to you who are listening to the show. Tell your friends, tell your enemies. It's springtime.

For example, maybe you're out there and you catch a mischievous rabbit stealing one of your carrots, but then you decide maybe you'll share the carrots. And while you're sitting there sharing a carrot with a rabbit, you say, hey, I know you're not a human and you don't understand anything I'm saying,

but if you're ever looking for a podcast to play in your den, check out Working It Out. It's where a comedian named Mike Birbiglia discusses creative processes with other comedians and creators. I think you might get something out of it. But then again, you're a rabbit. Thanks, everybody. We're working it out.