Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 98. Ray Romano: Sometimes the Setup is the Punchline

Episode Date: May 1, 2023

Ray Romano has an iconic sitcom and a celebrated stand-up career under his belt, so what drives him to keep challenging himself artistically? Mike and Ray, who often follow each other at the Comedy Cellar, ponder the complicated answer to that question. Plus, discussion of comedy craft, joke-writing technique, and the two separate times Ray was held up at gunpoint.Please consider donating to Harvest Home

Did he ever say I love you before he died? He did not. And he, my father's father left him when he was two years old. So he had his, my father had his own thing, you know? So I don't fault him for being who he was, you know? He just, he tried and he couldn't. But I remember towards the end when we kind of knew, you know, probably in the next year,

we wouldn't have him with us anymore. And I remember he was in the hospital here. And I, you know, of course at that moment, I wanted to say it. So I said, I'm going to like, all right, I love you, dad. And his response was, I know you do. Oh my God.

That was it. Yeah. I can't take it. I can't take it. I can't take it. That is the voice of the great Ray Romano. Oh my gosh, what a dream. I've wanted to have Ray Romano on this podcast from

jump, from the moment we're nearing our hundredth episode. I've wanted to have him on from episode one. One of my favorite comics of all time. I think he's one of the greats. In the last few years, I've been lucky enough to get to know him. We work at the Comedy Cellar a bunch together. We're often back-to-back.

He's a phenomenal comic, and now a phenomenal filmmaker. I just saw his new movie. It's called Somewhere in Queens, and it's really emotional. Just beautiful. Just a beautiful piece of independent film. It's called Somewhere in Queens, and it's really emotional. Just beautiful. Just a beautiful piece of independent film. It's in theaters everywhere right now. I urge you to see it.

I cried. So did Jenny. We had a very emotional reaction to it. It's a lot about parenting. It's about a father-son relationship, a mother-son relationship. It's really emotional stuff. We talk a lot about that. We talk about parenting and relationships and marriages

and really about authenticity in storytelling. I love that about Ray, his level of authenticity in his stand-up and his films just shines through. Speaking of which, I'm trying to have authenticity in my new material I'm writing right now. I was just in D.C. and Providence. I'm going to be in Indianapolis. I think there's like, I don't know, 100 tickets left or something like that. And my shows are in Indianapolis.

And then I'll be in Philadelphia. There's a few left. I think Madison's sold out. All of these, by the way, you should just sign up. If you want to see me live, go on Burbiggs.com. Sign up for the mailing list. I'm going to be announcing a bunch of new cities soon with new material and some old man in the pool stuff, possibly abroad. That's right, abroad in other countries.

I think you're going to love today's episode with Ray. Of course, you know him from Everyone Loves Raymond. And we talk about that. We talk about stories from Ray's childhood and Queens and Italian families. And a lot of that he and I have in common, oddly. I'm an Olive Garden Italian. He's a real Italian. And we end up somewhere in the middle. Enjoy my conversation with the great Ray Romano.

What is the thing that keeps you doing stand-up, keeps you challenging yourself? Because you don't have to. Well, I don't have to financially. That's why I brought you here today. I'm lucky. I'm a part of some'm lucky i'm not doing this for the money yeah um i do this for the steps to get the steps in yeah third floor yeah um yeah i mean i i want to not be bored you know and i want to not be i want to i – it's scary, but I've been quoting Lionel Richie all week because he says on American Idol, he says to the singers,

life begins at the end of your comfort zone. Oh. So just signing on to direct this was the scariest thing, but it was that kind of philosophy. Life begins at the end of your comfort zone is a fantastic quote. Yes. I don't know if it's Lionel, if it's his quote, but he does say it a lot. And I get it.

But everyone, occasionally people tell me, why aren't you retired? Because I don't do it for the money. I do it. I have to do it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it keeps me going. It gets me up in the morning.

I like to create and I like to, I get the high from it. And to quote another director, I'm not going to say his name, but they asked him, why do you make a movie, so many movies? And he said, because it keeps me from thinking of death. Oh, my gosh. Yes, of course. A little morbid. That's really funny.

Yeah. And, of course, when you're an eye at the cellar, all we talk about is our health. I know. It's like every other conversation is you being like, what's your cholesterol look like? That's so funny. But you really, like recently you said to me

with a degree of certainty that someone who isn't a doctor I don't think has ever said to me, you were like, you should get on statins. You were like, I wish I had gotten on statins 15 years ago. Well, you know, I can say this now because, did I talk to you about my stent? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you had a stent. You had a stent, yeah.

Right. Which for people who don't realize, it means you didn't have a heart attack. No, no. You had a blockage. Yeah, but I hadn't. The weird thing is I said it on Marin. I just said I had a stent.

And right now, today, I'm Googling myself because my movie's coming out and I want to I had a stent. And right now, today, I'm Googling myself because my movie's coming out and I want to read the reviews. But everything... I'm not kidding. I want to show you something. I want to show you something. This is ridiculous.

Can you Google Ray Romano and go to news? And you will see the top 10 things on Ray Romano heart surgery. That's so funny. It's all clickbait because it's not... I didn't really have a heart surgery. And it was two and a half all clickbait because it's not, I didn't really have heart surgery and it was two and a half

years ago. You couldn't be getting better reviews for your surgery. I mean, the reviews for the surgery are through the roof. Well, what's funny is,

what's good is, if they click on it, they'll say, he was on Marin promoting his movie. So my movie gets the plug anyway. You got 90% on rotten surgeries.

Ridiculous. Yeah. Your movie movie is by the way like 90 and 7 on rotten tomatoes which i was glad about because i actually feel like i saw the movie without reading review i had a super emotional reaction i was crying crying jenny did too i'll tell you what's great about seeing a movie in a theater people cry around you you're crying, you can hear people sniffling, it's a human connection it's a communal experience forget about my movie I just want theaters to

exist and I want people to go just for that reason you're saying even the laughter when you're crying hearing people cry and seeing people get emotional. Yeah. That's okay. But then laughter does nothing better, you know,

for a comedy. Yeah, okay. I want people to watch the movie, but watching it in your living room and not having the soundtrack of the audience, you know, because when people laugh, it's like watching an action film without a soundtrack, you know? Because when people laugh, it's like watching an action film without a soundtrack, you know what I mean?

If you're watching a comedy by yourself on a couch, you can still enjoy it. And then it's that bond of these are strangers and we're all kind of feeling the same thing, you know, in different ways, but yeah. Well, I had the thing that crushed me, and it's funny because you were saying the other thing, you know, different ways, but yeah. Well, I had the thing, the thing that crushed me and it's funny because you were saying

the other night, I was like, your movie made me cry and you were like, you know, my show, Old Man in the Pool, made you cry. I was thinking about that later.

I was like, oh, well, we both have dad stuff because in my show, I talk about how my dad doesn't say I love you. Yes. And in this movie, there's like a dad

who withholds love in some way, shape, or form. Yeah, you can't say I love you. And then this movie, there's like a dad who withholds love in some way, shape or form. Yeah, you can't say it, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that's what killed me. That's my life too. That's what killed me.

I always have the line, if my father hugged me once, I wouldn't have to do any of this shit. Yeah. One hug. That's all it would have took. Did he ever say I love you before he died? He did not.

And he, listen, I don't, I don't, I, my father's father left him when he was two years old. So he had his, my father had his own thing, you know? So I don't, I don't fault him for being who he was. He tried and he couldn't. But I remember towards the end when we kind of knew he was okay, but he was close to probably in the next year, we wouldn't have him with us anymore. And I remember he was in the hospital here and I was living in LA. So the times I would come in and whatever. And I remember he was in the hospital here and I was living in LA. So the times I would come in, whatever. And when I left, he never knew if I was going to see him again.

And I left the hospital one time and I was going back to LA and I go, all right, dad, I'm going to LA. All right. And I never, you know, had a hard time saying it to him because, you know, we'd never said it to each other. And I, you know, of course because we never said it to each other. And of course, at that moment, I wanted to say it. So I said, I'm going to like, all right, I love you, Dad.

And his response was, I know you do. Oh, my God. And that was it. I can't take it. I can't take it. I know you do. And I don't know if that was his way of saying it or if it was... My sister Gina sent me this today. As most as he could say.

This is my dad's family in Queens when he was growing up. He's the kid. He's the boy. Wait a minute, which boy? Oh, he's the little boy there? Yeah, he's the little boy, yeah. It's my dad in Queens. Wow, the mother of the one...

Who's behind him? I think it's his mom, yeah. She looks like a member of my family. They all do. That's my somewhere in Queens. So you're Italian too. I'm Italian, Sicilian. Oh, you know, my wife, that's where I'm from.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. The looks and the dresses, the black dress. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's wild. Do you have other members of the family who are emotional, who say, I love you? I had my younger brother, probably. Yeah. My younger brother, me and my, my brother and I are a year and a half apart. So we had the same, you know,

the same era of my father. Yeah. My younger brother is seven years younger. So he softened up a little, still didn't say it, but wasn't as, you know, we were kind of afraid of my dad when we were kids, you know. And then when he became, when he got older, he had a dry, weird little sense of humor. And we would laugh at him, but we would make him laugh. But like my wife, did not get him. Yeah, sure. My wife didn't get them is probably an understatement of the century. So he found a way to play back our outgoing messages on our machine.

Okay. He found the code. He could play when answering machines existed. He would call up, listen to our machine, and then he would the code, you know, he could play when answering machines existed and he would call up, listen to our machine. And then he would leave a message and say, Hey, Anna, you know, your friend, Linda went to the doctor. Maybe you should go. All right. He would be fun. He thought he was being funny. Yeah. And my wife was furious. You know, that's like reading our mail. And this was just, we were just only married one year, two years. You've got to talk to him. I would tell him, Dad, I think it's funny.

All right, I'm going to give you your credit. She doesn't think it's funny. Ah, come on. I go, please tell me. All right, all right. And then he topped himself. He found a way to change our outgoing message. Not the, he didn't listen to our messages.

Yeah. He changed. When you call, it's your dad. Instead of you saying, hey, it's Ray, leave a message. Right, right. It's your dad. So he wrote, and we called up once, and hey, you've reached Ray and Anna. Leave a message.

If you want Al Romano, I'm at 268-2007. Oh, my God. And my wife cried. She actually literally cried. She was so mad. Did your dad like that Peter Boyle? Peter Boyle was a legendary actor. Yes.

Like some of the greatest film and TV roles of all time. Yeah, yeah. He was a great man. He was kind of just the opposite of the guy on the TV time. Yeah, yeah. He was a great man. He was just the, kind of just the opposite of the guy on the TV show. Yeah. He was so smart, you know. Yeah. You know, John Lennon was the best man at his wedding. And he was a monk who took a vow of silence at one point. Yeah. And so he could talk to me about the stupidest things, you know, and then he could argue politics with Patty Heaton. Wow.

So he was all of that, yeah. He was really great. When you were making the series, because, man, so many seasons, so many episodes. And after a certain point, first season you're probably basing it on your life, probably season two, three on, what is it at that point? Whose life is it? Is the writer's room?

Yeah, I mean, everybody, they were all married with family except for one guy. So everybody brought, you know, Phil Rosenthal would come in and say what happened. Tell his story, yeah. Yeah, or he would ask the guys on the weekend, go home and have a fight with your wife and bring it back in, you know, yeah.

Did Anna ever object to anything on the show where she'll go, actually, it happened this way kind of thing? She would say once in a while, she would say, I don't want to see this on the show. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. And this is my stupid joke. And I would tell her to go cry on a bag of money. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. And this is my stupid joke. And I would tell her to go cry on a bag of money.

Oh, my gosh. Yeah, that's my stupid joke. Yeah. But once in a while. But not in that way. One night we were sitting in bed watching, and there was a scene with me and Patty. There was a scene with me and Patty, and she watched the scene, and she said, you've just talked to her in that scene more than you've talked to me the whole week. Oh, my gosh.

And I said, well, we have writers. Oh, my gosh. I don't have a writer for you. She never really got too bent about what we do. And even in my act, you know, in my act, I'm worse than what was on the show. Yeah, yeah. You know, constantly about, what, 35 years married,

no sex, and all that stuff, you know? And she does a little bit now, oh, now I got to go listen to you say, you know, I have the stupid joke of when we have sex now, my wife has to take off her Apple watch because it keeps going. Time to move. I got to hear how bad I am at sex now, whatever, you know. But she never really follows through. It's always just, she's just voicing it, but she knows it's part of the deal. Not the deal, but it's harmless, really.

You have such a sweet family. I met Anna. I met Allie. It was all at the Comedy Teller. It was really sweet. Yes. Did you meet the boys? I think I met the boys, too. I think you had a whole family one night.

Yeah. Your daughter, I don't even know if it's public or you say, she just got engaged. She did. Yeah. She got engaged I don't even know if it's public or you say, she just got engaged. She did. Yeah. You know, she got engaged when I was in Vegas this weekend. I was in Vegas. I worked Vegas this weekend.

And we got there. My wife came with me because, and she never comes, but because we were flying here to do the movie stuff from Vegas. So she came to Vegas, and we got there. An hour later, my daughter sent a picture of her with the ring on, and I said, I'm in Vegas for an hour. I'm already down $500,000. But, yeah, she's engaged, and my son is engaged.

One of my twins got engaged so we have two ready i'm ready to be a grandfather does it feel like your kids getting engaged does it feel like uh like a stage like a next a next step in your life yeah it's like you know, I have friends, like I said, I'm, you know, I'm in a different age than you. You're not going to hit that grandpa age yet, you know, but my friends are, kids are having kids. Yeah. And I'm looking forward to it, you know, and yeah, I want to move on into that stage quickly before I want to be able to bend down and pick them up. I get that, yeah. I always say this to you at the Cellar. I always say this.

There's not that many comedians who stay funny over 60. You know, you're 65. It's like, because I think about it all the time. Because sometimes I go like, well, maybe. I know, you're 65. It's like, because I think about it all the time. Because sometimes I go like, well, maybe. I know what you're saying. Maybe I won't do stand-up in my 50s. Maybe I'll direct movies or this or that. Or maybe I'll do something else.

Because I have that fear. Yeah. What if I'm not funny at a certain age? You're a riot. It's like, do you think there's secrets to it? I don't know what the formula is for that. You know, I know what you're a riot it's like do you think there's secrets to it i don't know what the formula is for that you know i know what you're talking about um and i and i don't even know if i you know i always worry am i going to outgrow stand-up uh of course your

you know your audience can also come with you you know it is, I guess, is will I be able to play for the same ages, the audiences that go to the Comedy Cellar? Yeah, if I go do Vegas, people that are going to come to see me are going to be my audience. But I want to go into a club and be able to go on stage. And I don't know. I don't know if it's a – I don't know what – you know, there are comics, older, who still hold up.

You know, in your 50s now, it's nothing. I mean – Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, Sebastian Maniscalco is in his 50s. Yeah, he's a riot. Yeah. Yeah. And Mark Maron is in his late 50s.

Sandler and Kevin James are all in their 50s. So I think that's happening too, you know. 50s and 60s is not as old as it used to be. Yeah, Chris Rock is in his 50s. Yeah, they're all late 50s. Spade, Spade and everything, yeah. But what makes it a style where it holds up? I don't know if it's having that conversational style maybe. But what makes it a style where it holds up?

I don't know if it's having that conversational style maybe. Like if someone was a character, does that hold up over the test of time? I don't know. Probably not. Yeah, maybe not. Probably not. Maybe not, yeah. Well, because it's authentic to who you are, right? Like my favorite book on directing is Ilya Kazan on directing.

And he, I'm paraphrasing, but he says this thing that stuck with me, which is like the directors who lose it with age are trying to be hip and young and they're not honest to what their age actually is. Right. And I think that's true of stand-up. I think it's true of movies. Yeah. Yeah, I never thought of it.

Yeah. Yeah, like I wonder. I'm thinking about my – I don't consciously do that when I write stand-up, you know? Yeah. I don't say, all right, I've got to bring it up to date. I just – I don't know how you write, but I – yes, there are times where I'm like, all right, let's think of something funny. But the majority of my act is either something funny pops in my head and I write it down, or my wife says something, I write it down. My kids say something, I write it down.

And then I expand on it from there. But I don't sit down and say, time to write. Okay, let's think. Let's think. Time to write. No, I always tell that to people because a lot of creatives listen to the show and I always say just write everything down. Literally keep a journal. Write it all

down because it's all usually, I think, at least me and comedians I know, it's you write down things that happen and then at some point you go, oh, the punchline is this. Yes. I longhand it.

In the back of my book, I have my big calendar. I have a hard copy calendar, a month at a glance. And the last four or five pages that are blank are new bits, and I just have those buzzwords of the stupidest things. Yeah, yeah. Whatever. And will they amount to a bit? Yeah. If I go, I mean, I don't know if they'll amount to it,

but I have to take it on stage, and in one week at the cellar, I can kind of know if it's a bit or not, because I can get on stage 15 times. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't have it, I don't even have a bit written out. I just have the word.

I'll tell you the one thing about the cellar that's funny that is, because it's New York, it's different, is like I told this story at the cellar recently. It was just true from the subway. I was on the subway home and there was a person that took off their shoes. I was like, ah.

And then they took off their pants. And I was like, oh, I long for those taking off the shoes days. Those are the good times. That's funny. That's funny. I have written in my book, there's nothing with the subway. I just, again, I don't have a bit. I just thought I was watching TV.

Nothing with the subway. I just, again, I don't have a bit. I just thought I was watching TV, and it was the kid at the zoo who falls into the gorilla pit. Oh, yeah. You know, that happens. Yeah, yeah. And I don't know if this will develop into a bit,

but my thought was you think when a little kid falls into the gorilla pit, the other gorillas look at each other and go, we're going to take a bullet in the head now, aren't we? We're going to get shot in the head because of this little asshole. Oh, my God. Is it really funny? That's a great joke. Are you kidding me?

I got to go somewhere with it. I got to figure out where it goes. Just don't go near him. Don't go near him. I think that's done. Yeah. Don't go near him? Yeah, the other gorilla's like, I got to go near him. I got to sniff him out or something. All right, this is called the slow round.

What nicknames do you have in your life that were really good or really bad? I had Dizzy. Dizzy. That's nice. Is it a good one? That's positive, I think. What's it based on? I forgot. I think some guy just said it once because I may have one of the older kids

thought I was being stupid and said, what are you, Dizzy? And then they started calling me Diz the Wiz. Yeah. Did you get hit growing up? Did you get beat up? Beat up? Yeah.

Like, was it tough? Was Queens tough? You know, I mean, it wasn't, you know, I'm not going to make like it was one of those tough neighborhoods where we got in fights every day. But I got held up twice at gunpoint in the gas station I worked at. Yeah, when I was, I guess I was 19, 20. I worked pumping gas in Yellowstone Boulevard in Queens and two separate times, yeah, I got held up. Do you give the person cash?

Yeah, this is when it was all, you know. This is all cash? Well, it wasn't all cash. There was credit cards, but you had to take the credit card go and kinking and you know. Yeah, yeah. It wasn't automated at the pump, you know. Yeah.

And there was a kid who came in and young guy pretended he needed to use the pay phone. This is when there were pay phones. Oh, my gosh. And it was just me and this other guy working there, young guy working. And we're just running out, coming in, and he kept pretending the phone was busy. And he looked, he was a young kid, looked like a college kid. We never suspected it, you know?

Yeah. And we started talking with him, laughing and whatever, and he was waiting for the right time, you know, because cars kept coming in, cars kept coming in. And at the right moment when there was a lull, he pulled out a gun. He had a gun and he goes, guys, I like you. Don't do anything. Oh, my gosh.

Lay down. Yeah, and we let him take all the cash and he anything. Oh, my gosh. Lay down. Yeah, and we let him take all the cash, and he left. Oh, my gosh. Second time was a guy in the car. It was two guys in a car, one in the front seat and one in the back seat. I should have known right then. You know, one guy was in the front and one in the back. Yes.

And it was at night, and you have a sign that says, we don't make change. Yeah. Because we want to let them know we don't have money on us. Yeah. And the guy in the front said, I want three. This is how long ago it was. He wants $3 of gas. Yeah.

He goes, he only has a $10 bill. And I said, all right, I'll give it to you. And I pump the gas. He gets the 10. He hands me the 10. And I take out a wad of money. It's all singles, but it looks like a lot. It looks like a lot of money.

Which was good. And then I hear from the back seat, yo. And as soon as I heard yo, I went, oh, no. Oh, gosh. And he had a gun pointing out the window. And he said, give me all that. Throw it in. And I threw it in. And he goes, empty your pockets, too. And I take out the window. And he said, give me all that. I throw it in. And I threw it in.

And he goes, empty your pockets, too. And I take out my wallet. And he goes, throw that in here. And I know I was scared. I'm not saying I'm a brave guy. I know where this is going. But I said to him, and I showed him what was in the wallet. It was only a dollar.

I go, can I give you the dollar, but I want to keep my license and whatever? And the guy took the dollar, and he goes, yeah, you can keep that too. He let me keep the wallet and let me keep my dollar. And then they drove off. I knew exactly where you were going with that story because the moment you said give me your wallet, in my mind, it became my wallet. Yes, and then I got to renew my license. The license and the this and the that.

Yeah. And the social security card. But, you know, it was not a bad neighborhood. It wasn't that bad a neighborhood. You got held up at gunpoint twice. Yeah. I mean, you're trying to downplay a bad neighborhood. That's not a good neighborhood.

It wasn't like it was, you know. It wasn't Main Street. No, it wasn't Main Street. Wow. it wasn't mean streets no it wasn't mean streets wow what can you oh my gosh this was so obvious for you i always ask people you think of a moment your life that changed your life but you didn't know it at the time that i didn't know what at the time you didn't know at the time it's going to change your life and then it did well i mean career-wise it's it's a Letterman because I just thought it was going to be a great spot

I mean doing Letterman it could change you just having a good spot on Letterman could help your career I had the same thing but does it lead to a TV show yeah I'm very micro level I had the same thing

you had a great Letterman I had a good Letterman and then I got to be a headliner. I'm 24 years old. I get to be. What year did you do Letterman? 2002, I think. Oh, wow. So it was like completely changed everything.

Yeah. Because for me, it's like once you get to do an hour, you can work out an hour. Yeah. And for you, obviously, it's series your whole life. Yeah. I did get to do Carson also right before he retired. I did it in 91.

The thing was at that point, it wasn't like doing Carson in the late 70s where you became instant, almost household name, a headliner. You know, it was still the pinnacle for a comedian. It was the dream. Yeah. Me and my friend, one day in the kitchen, my brother was in the other room. We were the funny guy, you know, whatever we thought. And I think we had been drinking a little bit.

And my older brother, we were busting his chops, you know. And he was telling us to shut up, whatever, inside. You know brother we were busting his chops you know we said and he was telling us to shut up whatever inside you know we were being stupid and then we just said we're going to be on carson oh my gosh he goes he goes you're not gonna be on carson i go within within five years we're gonna be on carson you know it took probably 20 15 20 years and it was just me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we did throw that out there. Yeah, it was funny. I think we might have made a bet.

We might have bet them that, like, in five years, we'll bet you $500 we'll be on Carson. You had the existence of an archetype that comedians wanted for, 20 years to follow it. Like, which is, you went to Montreal just for laughs. You did New Faces. You did Letterman. And then from Letterman, you got a deal with Letterman's company to do a sitcom.

And the sitcom's a hit. And from that point on, every manager and agent was like, go to Montreal, create a comedy set that's about your life and it becomes a sitcom and even I

even I had that where they I did New Faces and I did Letterman and they tried to build a sitcom around my life and then I realized like this doesn't feel right

and I kind of walked away from it and did what I did did you have a Letterman development deal? wasn't with that company but it was with it was with CBS. Oh, okay.

I had a CBS pilot they shot. Right, right. Days of My Life, Mike Birbiglia Project, whatever it was. And then it was like, but it was weird because I feel like your show had artistic integrity. They did not let our show have artistic integrity.

Like by the time we finished the pilot, it didn't feel like me at all. Yeah. But yours did. Like, by the time we finished the pilot, it didn't feel like me at all. Yeah. But yours did. Like, how'd you do that? Yeah, we had to fight for stuff, too. I mean, they wanted to take it out of the city. Oh.

They wanted, yeah. Really? They felt like we had to appeal to middle America. Wow. And that's why we gave them Long Island. We compromised and gave them Long Island. Oh, interesting. Yeah.

Although we wanted it to be in Queens or wherever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they said it won't appeal to middlemen. Meantime, at the time, Seinfeld was the number one show. Yeah, yeah. The number one show ever, yeah. They wanted the wife to be a little more, you know, unethnic, you know? Yeah.

I've heard Phil Rosenthal talk about this, your partner. Yeah. Talk about also like, we need someone who's like super hot to be the wife. And it's like, they gave us that. They were giving us that note at the network. And we were like, no, no, it's supposed to be funny yeah it's not about who's the it's not a modeling contest this is insane yeah yeah how about when phil went to uh to russia and brought the show to russia and they wanted the wife has to be glamorous dressed

yes dressed to the nines every day. Yes. She's a housewife. She's doing laundry. You know, there's a little story to that Letterman spot. So this is the spot that I'm here. This is why I'm here. Why you're here on this podcast. So it's my first Letterman. I'm backstage, and I'm here. Why you're here on this podcast. So it's my first letter mail. I'm backstage and I'm watching the show.

And Dave is doing a bit about can we cut your pants into shorts? And his first guest is Mel Gibson. And he, because it's kind of, it's May maybe. So, you know, summer is coming. And he's going to summarize everybody's pants. and he cuts Mel Gibson's pants into shorts right out there. Mel wasn't expecting it, and the crowd goes nuts. And then he goes, Paul, you've got to have your pants, and he cuts Paul Schaefer's pants. And then he goes, you know, and I've got to be a good sport.

I'm doing a few, and he cuts his own pants into shorts. So I'm backstage and we're all thinking. I go, should I go out with cut pants? Like go out. Ray, ladies and gentlemen, Ray Romano. And walk out and my pants are already cut. And the producer brought back scissors. And he goes, you got to go out with that.

You got to cut your pants off. Oh, that's so funny. And we had the scissors and I was, yeah, I guess. And at the last minute, I rethought it. Well, because I said, I thought, it might get a little, but I'm an unknown and I'm walking out. Yeah. And it's a little distracting.

Yeah, there's an initial, but it's also like, you're not part of a club yet. Yeah, you're not part of the club. Yeah. And I made the choice not to do it. Now, listen, I had a great set. I'm hard on myself. That set was really good. It led to this.

And I told Dave this at the very end. I go, and I think if I came out with those pants, I don't know if this happens. I agree. I think if you cut off the pants. The dynamic changes. I think all of a sudden, it's the night that's about the pants. Right. And it's not about, oh, this new voice in comedy.

Right. It's a guy who's kind of yes-ending the bit. It's a little thing, but you don't know how it snowballs. I think the butterfly effect is not there. It snowballs, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think that's a little thing, but you don't know how it snowballs. I think the butterfly effect is not there. It snowballs, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think that's a smart move. Also, you ever hear the phrase, you can't follow the costume? No.

I think that's a super smart. Yeah. I don't know who invented this phrase, but it's such a smart point, which is like if you come on in a silly outfit, a big outfit, you wear, you know, a chicken suit or whatever, it's funny for a minute. And then you got to do something. You know what's funny?

Sometimes you'll say, you and I will be back to back in the cellar, and you'll be like, oh, great, I got to follow. Yeah, married stuff. Married stuff with more married stuff. Is there anything that you feel like you can't follow for real? At the cellar, the funny thing about the cellar is I'm always, first of all, I don't care how long I've been in this business, I'm always nervous about following whoever's up there. Dave Attell.

Attell's hard to follow. But it's subject matter. Like with you, it's subject matter. Like I saw Paul Reiser at the Comedy Magic Club. I was like, you and I cannot work together. That's funny. Yeah, because he's... He's hating the same stuff.

Yeah, we're talking about relationships, marriage, wife. Our wife hates us, the whole thing. I have a new bit about marriage, which is that I've been working on, which is like in marriage, I think the most special thing is that you can communicate so much with so few words. A friend of mine was like, I want to go skydiving, and I want you to come. And I was like, oh, that sounds great.

I went home to my wife, I relayed this, and she said, are you going to do that? And that's when I realized I wasn't going to do that. I said, no, because I'm more afraid of my wife's judgment of me than I am of jumping out of an airplane at 30,000 feet. That's funny. Yeah. I feel like I'm in that space right now where I'm trying to,

like when I'm writing new material, it's like 80% to 90% of my life is spent with my wife and daughter. Yeah. It's like, what am I going to write about? Yeah, that's it for me, man. So same with me. And Jenny's a poet, and so a lot of, look, when I wrote the last show, the new one,

about having a child, I used her poetry in it, and so she was a writer on it, and so it was less, it was less, it's just a less challenging thing because ultimately like her words are her words like she expressed it with this you know i'd say the poem but um auto doing autobiographical writing about relationships marriage whatever it is it's challenging because ultimately comedy is based on conflict yes films are are based on conflict. I mean, your whole film is based on conflict. Yeah, it's funny. People used to say about Everybody Loves Raymond,

why are they always fighting and yelling? And yeah, the answer, well, do you want us to just be sitting on the couch getting along? Yeah. And what episode is that? Tell me what's that episode about, you know? Yeah, it's conflict. And my wife, I got COVID for the first time a month, two months ago. Two days before her birthday, she was turning 60.

And we planned a big party in a restaurant here in New York. And we rented out a restaurant floor or whatever. And now I can't go, right? And she's, she's going to the elevator in our apartment and I'm standing in the doorway in my pajamas, you know, and she says she's before she gets in the elevator, she turns and I wave and I go, happy birthday.

Thinking maybe she'll say, you know, we're going to miss you, you know, hope you feel better. And she just looks at me and goes, I feel like punching you. Oh, my gosh. Jesus. Oh, my gosh. She's blaming me for that. Because she knew that there was probably a little bit of me that liked that I didn't have to go. Oh, that's funny.

That's the thing about marriage that is worth writing about is that you're so close to somebody that actually they can read your mind. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what makes the dramatic element, I think, worth watching. Even in the movie, the relationship between your character and Laurie Metcalf's character is very deep. But part of what makes it deep is the conflict. Right, right. The characters are in conflict with each other, like, quite a bit.

Right. And we also wanted to write it, you know, coming from people who don't, can't articulate much like that. Oh, that's interesting. Don't say it that much, you know? Yeah, they're not in couples therapy or anything. No, no. No, so, you know, she's struggling with her fear of dying cancer.

Yeah, yeah. And they don't know, you know, he doesn't really know how to deal with that and process it, you know. But he says it in the best way he can, you know. Just like the father says, finally gives the kid a compliment, but it's on his back, you know? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you can't even do it face to face. It's interesting because if you think about like conflict in movies or jokes or whatever, it's like in some ways it indicates that the people care about each other at all.

That they don't? That they do. That they care about each other at all. Like when I'm watching somewhere in Queens and your character and Laurie Metcalf's character are arguing the way they are, I'm like, yeah, that's a marriage. You're like, oh, they love each other.

Yeah, they love each other. That's funny. They're going to be there for each other. Honestly, if I was watching a movie and they're indifferent, I'm like, I'm not there. Yeah, well, that was the key for everybody. It was Raymond. Yeah, yeah.

Yes, they yell and scream every episode. But you know that they love each other. You know that. Yeah. Did you ever have rules for how to make sure that that's expressed? Like, did you ever have a tip over thing where you're like, this is too much. Too much arguing. I'm sure we did, but we always had, I think, you know, we wanted to always get somewhere, you know?

So, yeah, they're going to yell and scream and I'm going to do something horrible and stupid and whatever. But there's going to be, within those 22 minutes, there's going to be an arc and you're going to, he's going to learn something. Somebody's going to learn something, you know, subtly, but it's not going to be pushed in your face and it's not going to be, uh, we're not going to be preaching to anybody, but, but always something, you know, a little bit of something, you know? And I think that's why people stuck with it is because, yes, we attack each other. But I think they felt – you give them just – you just give them a little taste of sweetness and love and then you can – Yes. It goes a long way, you know?

Yeah. I did – I remember the father. There was an episode where Peter Boyle did something with a baseball. I don't know what it was, but I remember Phil wanted me to kiss him on the head. And I said, Phil, no, no, my character would never. Phil and I never really came to odds at anything. Phil's thing in the writer's room was whenever I would say, no, no,

my character wouldn't do it, he would say, yes, but that's why you do it because your character wouldn't do it. And I say, okay,

I can never. Wait, what's his logic? That's why you do it because he wouldn't do it? Yes, yes. He thought that was what was good about it

was we don't think he would do it. I go, I guess I can never argue a point then. If the reason I do it is because I he would do it i go i guess i can never argue a point then if if if the reason i do it is because i wouldn't do it then i guess uh anything you put down i have to do but he just did it at this one moment it was funny i i i always uh call him on that but but in this part he said he he wanted me to kiss peter well on the head at this sweet moment and i thought it

was too much for these two guys, you know. And we were going back and forth, back and forth. And it wasn't loud or, you know. And he finally said to me, just do the scene. And if you feel it, do it. Yeah. If you feel it, do it. Which he was very smart.

That is smart. He knew I was going to do it. And I did. Oh, that's nice. And it was, you know, the audience loved it. Yeah. I have a thing I'm working on right now about marriage, which is that my wife, the thing that I love most about my wife

is that she's so thoughtful, much more thoughtful than me. I go, the other day she made me a pancake. And then I go, you heard that correctly. I see it on your card there. Pancake. Yeah, I was working you heard that correctly. I see it on your card there. Pancake. Yeah, I was working with Bert last week. But I go, pancake. And I go, which, because she understands my health profile.

She knows the right amount of pancakes for me to eat is pancake. That's a great joke because it's just, you're just taking one letter. One letter. And it's a joke. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you said she's. One letter. And it's a joke. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you said she's making me pancakes, it's not a joke. Yeah. And you're just removing one letter.

Yeah. But then, oh, so then the follow-up joke to that is, and I go, so she makes me pancake. And I go, thank you for pancake. And then I wanted to do something nice for her because my love language is keeping score. And then what I do in the crowd is because usually, literally someone claps.

And I go, if you're clapping. Wait, about keeping score? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I go, if you're clapping, it's because you're keeping score. And if you're not clapping, you're keeping score and you're losing. That's funny. This is not, we're not doing the same bit. No, no, no, no.

But I do a thing about scoring points with my wife. You do the same thing? Not the same thing. Similar, yeah. But I say, I just bring it up like the other day I scored points with my wife. And ladies, you know, we're always trying to score points. And every guy is trying to score points. I don't know what game we're in with you.

Yes. But you have the lead at all times. I say we are like the Washington Generals. You know, the Harlem Globetrotters play the other team. The Harlem Globetrotters play. That's a great take. So one of my. Yours is different.

It's funny. Oh, no, of course. One of mine that yours reminds me of is I go, marriage is teamwork, and we've lost a lot of games. Yeah. We're in a slump. And sometimes at the end of the game, I'm like, I was under the hoop for an hour.

And she's like, you couldn't score if you had a ladder and no defense. I was open. I was open. That's great, though. Your take is actually more filled out than mine, which is this idea that, like, you're basically keeping score because you kind of know the other person's winning. Because they're always in, yes.

They're in the lead already. Yes. That's interesting. Yes. We always need points because we're behind. We're always behind on points. But it's funny because I think the reason people are clapping, why that keeping score thing gets a reaction,

is I think sometimes people, there's no outlet for, and this is the same reason everyone loves Raymond, connects with people. It's like, there's no outlet for in this same reason everyone loves Raymond connects with people it's like there's no outlet for people to be like this is this dynamic of marriage and relationships and living together for your whole life and it's your lover and it's your your it's the mother your child and it's your wife and your roommate like it's so complex that if you can put words to it with an analogy or anything. There's no outlet for people to share what's the stuff that's hard, the stuff that's wrong about it, you know, the stuff that's hard about it, you know. Yeah. You know, for people to bond over, yes, yes, I go through that same shit.

You can't complain to, you don't want to complain to her about it. No. So you want to see other people talking about it. Yeah. Fuck, I go through the same thing. Yeah. Like I do a bit, and this happened. This is what happened.

I think you must have heard this. We were having dinner with my son and his girlfriend, just me and my wife at our house. And in the middle of it, I got a text, and it was from my wife. It was right there. And it was just two words, chewing loud. Yes.

Chewing loud. And. Chewing loud. And that happened to me. I wrote it down and I took it on stage and I just said it and it got a huge laugh. It was basically your wife commenting on you. Talking to me, yes. Yeah. Yes, chewing loud.

Chewing loud. But I'm saying I thought I was, I need to write a punchline here, and no. No, that's it. Sometimes the setup is the punchline. Yeah. Pancake. Pancake.

The last thing we do is we call it working out for a cause. If there's an organization, like a nonprofit, or anything that you donate to, or anything, we donate to them, and we call it Working Out for a Cause. If there's an organization like a nonprofit or anything that you donate to or anything, we donate to them and we link in the show notes to them. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. I mean, we have a couple, but the main one we go to is Harvest Home. It's called Harvest Home. It's in L.A.

And it's a nice organization that takes women who are pregnant, who find themselves either to be homeless or just out of work. And it helps them, you know, it takes them in and helps them have, you know, puts them on their feet and helps them have their baby and get them work and a job and all that. Yeah. So we'll link to harvesthome.org, and we'll donate to them. And, Ray, thanks for coming on. This is just, like, a phenomenal... You're going to edit it, right? We're going to tighten it up.

All right, thanks, Ray. All right, man. Fix it in post. Fix it in post. We'll fix it in post. Working it out, because it's not done. Fix it in post. We'll fix it in post. That's going to do it for another episode of Working It Out. That is Ray Romano.

I just feel lucky to know that guy. So funny, so talented. He's a legend. Ray Romano's a legend, and his movie's fantastic. Somewhere in Queens. The showtimes are at somewhereinqueensmovie.com Jenny and I loved it. We were crying

and everyone around us was crying in the movie theater. See it in the theater. It's a really good movie to see in the theater. Our producers of Working It Out are myself along with Peter Salamone and Joseph Birbiglia. Associate producer Mabel Lewis. Consulting Producer Seth Barish Assistant Producers Gary Simons

Lucy Jones and Nick Dimitralakis Sound Mix by Ben Cruz Supervising Engineer Kate Belinsky Special thanks to Marissa Hurwitz and Josh Huffball as well as David Raphael and Nina Quick My consigliere is Mike Berkowitz Special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers for their music.

Of course, J-Hope Stein, my wife, the poet. She's got these really cool broadsides of her poetry that she signs, like Little Astronaut and The Now Clock and a bunch of her other poems on her Instagram right now. It's at J-Hope Stein, and she sells on Mer Instagram right now. It's at jhopestine, and she sells on MerchTable. We got a bunch of fun for big stuff on MerchTable as well. Special thanks as

always to my daughter, Una, who built the original radio fort made of pillows. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. If you're liking the show, go on Apple Podcasts and spend two and a half minutes writing a review. Just say what your favorite episode is. It might be this

one. I think it could be this one. I love the Ray Romano episode. I've said it before. I'll say it again. Tell your friends, but even tell your enemies. Go to Ray's movie in the theater as he intended. If someone's talking in the movie, maybe they're on their phone. It's annoying. Don't yell at them.

Walk up to them while they're on their phone or texting. Hey, maybe don't text during the movie. And also, have you heard about this podcast? Mike Birbiglia is working on it. He interviewed the director of this movie. You might enjoy it if you stop talking and texting and actually watch the movie. Probably not the best way to deal with that situation, but we'll keep brainstorming. I'll see you next time, everybody. We're working it out.