Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - Bob Odenkirk: The Art of Anger in Comedy

Episode Date: February 16, 2026

Best of WIO: Bob Odenkirk (Recorded July 2025)Bob Odenkirk was already a comedy legend (SNL, The Ben Stiller Show, Mr. Show with Bob and David) before he took a left turn into dramatic acting with Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul. Now he’s entered yet another new phase as an unlikely action star in films like the Nobody series. Bob sits down with Mike to discuss how anger works in comedy and action films, the stress of making Better Call Saul, and the time Bob played Mike’s brother on a TV pilot.Please consider donating to Food on Foot Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

I think there's a correlation between anger and comedy, certainly. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because I think it is, in some ways, comedy is, it's like a corraling of anger into something that can be funny. I see it as a value, but also, Mike, I walk around. I'm like, I'm having a good day. I'm having a good day.

What the fuck? What the fuck? Motherfucker! You just got, you know, whatever. That is the voice of the great Bob Odenkirk. It's Mike Barbiglio. This is my podcast, working it out today. We are re-airing one of our favorite episodes from 2025.

It's the episode with Bob Odenkirk. The response to this episode has been overwhelming. There's a clip of Bob talking about being a dad when I ask him who he's jealous of, And he said people who still have young kids at home. And it was viewed by literally, and I'm not exaggerating, 35 million people on Instagram and TikTok. And I said that I'm laughing because we've never had a clip like that before.

It's not something we do. I'm not some kind of viral sensation for whatever reason that really hit home. And this episode really hit home. I feel like he talks a lot. about the process of being a comedy writer, becoming a serious actor, an action star, in the films Nobody and Nobody Too, of course, Breaking Bad and then Better Call Saul.

Great episode today. He's just got a lot of wisdom, and also he's brilliantly fun. By the way, thanks to everyone who's signed up for working out premium. We've been tentatively calling ourselves in the premium community, the Berbilia familia. That was one of the listeners suggested that.

So I've been going with it. Anyway, familia, there's more bonus stuff coming your way soon. We just dropped a bonus episode with Connor Ratliff where we punched up jokes. I punched up jokes on another one with Pete Holmes. If you sign up for premium, you get no ads in any of the episodes.

And you get these premium episodes. And we really appreciate it. It supports the show. Thanks, by the way, to everyone who has signed up for text message alert. So I've had the mailing list for years and then sometimes that goes to people's spam. So we have a new text message alert in addition to that,

which is text the word ber bigs, B-I-R-B-I-G-S to 917-44-7-1-5-0 to be the first to know about my upcoming shows. I'm doing a handful of like comedy club small shows to work on my next hour of comedy. I also have some tour dates with John Mullaney, Nick Kroll, and Fred Armisen coming up in the fall, New Hampshire, and Canada in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

also be on my own at the Netflix as a joke festival, May 6th at the Wilshire Ebell Theater. It's Mike Barbigley and Friends, working it out. It's a bunch of new material. It's not like my new hour, but it's probably like a half hour or 45 minutes of new stuff. That's in process, and it's a great theater. Tickets are at forbids.com. This is a fun one today with Bob Oden Kirk. We talk about his nobody movies.

He's got a new movie normal coming out in April. He is, in addition to being the hottest new action movie star, He's a legendary comic actor, writer, and director. You might know him from Mr. Show. At the time we were talking, he was in Gary Glenn Ross on Broadway. He was amazing as Shelley Levine. Of course, you might know him from Mr. Show on HBO. And, of course, the dramatic actor from Breaking Bad and Better Call Saw.

We talk about all of this today, and even the time he played my brother on a CBS pilot 20 years ago that never went on air. Enjoy my chat with the great Bob Odenk. Between doing action movies, doing Better Call Saul, doing decades of comedy, I feel like you're... Exhausted. Yeah, you're exhausted. Yes, I hear it.

Well, your career is like, it's like an example. It's like a piece of advice, basically, of like, don't limit yourself. Yeah, yeah. Well, I'll tell you this. I was riding my bike around Albuquerque. on weekends, which is what I would do to de-stress from Better Call Saul, especially the first two years. And there's, I think, I want to say 300 miles of bike trails in Albuquerque.

And I would go ride for five hours. My gosh. And I needed it, man. The first two years were so stressful. Really? Oh, God, I was like. What about it specifically? The amount of lines,

Just can I do this at all? I mean, I didn't, I took one acting class in college. Yeah. I had to learn a lot. I mean, I was learning by doing it. Yeah. With a camera in my face and you better fucking learn now. You have 10 seconds to learn how to act because we're going.

Yeah, yeah. And the pressure was just through the roof, you know. And I knew the writing was great. Right. But also it was challenging writing. You know, if there's a texture or value to a month, analog or a conversation dial piece that's scripted, you have to find that. Yeah.

You have to bring it out without being overt about it or being too loud about it. Yeah. You have to get good at acting. Yeah. And you have to do it right now. And everyone's watching and they're spending a lot of money and they're going to watch it all the way around the world. And it's, you know, see, I'm good at saying yes to things, a Broadway show or an action movie.

But then when you get to doing it, I'm like, what am I doing? What do I think I could do? You have a history of people giving you more to do. Yeah, yeah. So in that case, starting with Saturday Night Live. Right, right. So Saturday Live, you know. Which I didn't really deliver on.

And I talk about it in my book about I was finally good. I mean, Lauren might look at my journey and say, well, that's just normal. Yeah. So two years. You took two years to figure out how the fucking show work. And in the third year, you were helpful. Yeah. That's fine.

Sure. And then I leave. Yeah. Which is not actually what you're supposed to do if you've, you know. And I really feel like that's where I owe him money. Yeah. But then they did your sketch with Farley after you left. Right.

You say this is your book. They did it verbatim. Which is literally what, as comedians, you constantly hear people go, they stole my sketch. They did it. Oh, they gave me credit. Oh, they did give you credit. Oh, yeah, no. Even though I'd left the show, my name's on, they paid me.

They gave me credit. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But that sketch, I mean, living in a van down by the river, when I was growing up, I would say, is the north star of sketch comedy. It is a perfect comedy sketch. It is. Well, what it is that's so good is it's got good structure to it. But it's, especially one reason I think. maybe you like it is.

Comedy sketch writers especially want the writing to matter. They want the writing to be the star. But the truth is, in sketch comedy, the performance is the star. Yeah. It is 70% performance, 30% writing, maybe more performance, maybe 80%. It just is. Yeah. That's what that field is the quality of that field.

Yes. And that's sort of a, you could say, maybe a 50-50 sketch. maybe it's 60 performance, 40 writing, because the writing is structurally kind of perfect. Yeah. I got lucky. But it's closer to an equal apportionment. And then the other thing about it is you could do it as a,

I could do that sketch as the motivational figure. And it'd be pretty funny. Yeah, you'd be great. My natural rage would be on display and fun. But no one could be. Chris. I mean, there's no one who could do it better than Chris. I mean, it was a character that he was kind of doing, this coach character. Yeah. And which is why I went home and wrote it. After we had done an improvisation where we were doing an anti-drug speech, it was improvised to a high school

group and he did his coach. Yeah. And Matt Foley, I don't know if he used the name or not, but that is a name he came up with. Yeah. But he did that everything, you know, the swagger and stuff. What seems like... And then I took it and I just... It really was based on kind of Tony Robbins. Sure. Yeah. Which was very popular at the time. And I think Tony's story too is that he was like a fat kid.

Okay. When I was young or something like, I used to be this. I think that's right. Yeah. And I'm like, what about a guy who's like, I'm still this? You don't want to be me. You don't want to be me right now. It's so... I think the reason why it works.

You tell me what else is working, but it's like it works because it's simple and it's hypocrisy. Yeah. It's a character who's like, you need to do this thing, but I can't do it, but you should do it. Yeah, and also he's so in love with himself and his performance. He knows he's a good presenter of this shit. Well, look at what we have here. Bill Shakespeare. You know, he's like really loving himself.

So he's happy. He's happily just putting himself down and, and because it's Chris Farley. Come on. He's the best. Yeah, I always thought there was a movie in that, but of course a sad movie, you know, about a guy who really lives in a van down by the river,

and he's thrice divorced. And he's angry. And that's actually one of the things that you and I have in common, when you came to my show at the Beacon, we talked about it afterwards. our dads both had like anger stuff. Yeah. I feel like if my dad taught me two things,

he didn't mean to teach it to me, he gave to me genetically the ability to go from zero to 80 and, you know, a second of anger, which I do in Glengarry. Yes, yes. And my dad was like that. And so I feel like I just genetically got that. Yeah.

And he taught me how to swing a golf club. That's good. And I don't play golf money. Yeah. But if I do and I play, let's say I, if I'm going to play, I hit a range for three days beforehand. Yeah. And within three days, I've got a decent swing.

Yeah. I think there's a correlation between anger and comedy, certainly. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think that you see a lot of people like you and I and many others who had some angry dads. because I think it is, in some ways, comedy is, it's like a corraling of anger into something that can be funny.

Yeah. Well, a lot of times is one of the funniest things. David Cross and I, we would do Mr. Show. It's amazing how often in the morning we would do our, you know, generating ideas just sitting there oftentimes with the newspaper out. But it would, the sentence would start with, you know, it pissed me off. That's right.

And it's some stupid little thing. Yeah. You know? Person in front of me, I was trying to get fucking coffee this morning and this fucking person couldn't figure out, you know. Yeah. How to make change for like, and you're like, it just turns into a comedy bit, you know?

I feel that's true of a lot of Larry David's stuff, you know. Oh, my God. Yeah. It's the, and that part of the fun is the degree of anger at the small thing. It's not an important thing that you're that angry about. Right. You're so angry. Right.

But that's fun for an audience, right? Yeah, it's the thing that your dad had of going from zero to 80 on something that can be tiny. Yeah. Which is hilarious. And I still have it. Yeah. And I don't consider it a good thing in real life. And you know what bums me out about it the most is what's good in acting.

It's kind of like a lack of barriers. emotional barriers, an ability to fly between feelings, tense feelings, which is... It's crucial. I see it as a value, but also, Mike, I walk around. I'm like, I'm having a good day. I'm having a good day. What the fuck? What the fuck?

Motherfucker! You just got, you know, whatever, some little thing. I'm like, really? You just did that? Yeah. What is wrong with you? Yeah. Your life couldn't be bad.

Yeah. And you are having a great day. Yeah. And this small thing happened. It's not a plus. So I want to, I really need to take a chapter here now and work on myself because a part of it too is that I got into this avenue of acting and these action films were, it's, it's, I felt a lot of pressure there, Mike, because I'm working in an area I didn't start in. Yeah.

I've had to learn in the last 10 years. Try to learn quickly. Try to pay attention to the people around me and understand what matters in this world. Yeah. But also, I didn't, it was almost by accident. Like, well, slow down. You didn't choose this. Right.

You know, I think I got to get back to maybe some comedy. Yeah. Something that I think I've felt very alone in this pursuit. And, of course, you have a team around. You have other writers. You have producers and stuff. But I don't think Mr. Show, even though I had a great deal of power there, felt like a team effort still. And I like that.

Yeah, it's interesting. Are you alone doing your show? Yeah, it's true. Yeah, I have a director. and team and producers and my brother and my wife, but it is lonesome. Being a stand-up is lonesome. Yeah.

It is, it's a lot of times you're out there in Terre Haute, Indiana, just going, okay, it's just me. Hence the podcast. Okay, yeah, exactly. But you've worked with, I mean, you do these action films, you better call Saul, and even like Greta Gerwig's movie,

Stephen Spielberg's movie. I mean, you're working with huge directors. Yeah, yeah. Do you feel like when you're working with someone like Greta or Spielberg, are you learning as a director? Because you are a director. Are you in your director brain thinking, oh, I could use, I could do that?

I think the one thing I learned from directing three films is the first job you have as a director is picking the right story. Yeah. And the story that you don't just go, oh, that would be fun. but that you understand why you should tell that story. And I don't think I really did that particularly well.

I think Melvin Goes to Dinner was the first film I made, a very low-budget film, and based on a play, is the best film that I made. And it's because nobody was asking me to make it as a movie. I wasn't getting paid any money to make it as a movie. I just could see, I had a vision for how to put that on screen. It was oozing out of this. Yes.

And the other films were more like a tap. of how would you direct this? How would you make this? And I had ideas, but they weren't the best. They weren't great. They didn't deliver a great film. And so that's your first job. Yeah.

And I imagine I might one day again have that feeling about a story. Yeah. But I haven't yet. I haven't yet. Certainly not the action films that I've made. I haven't said I should direct this. I should direct this, yeah. No, and the opposite.

I've said, you get somebody who knows this stuff. And I've certainly worked hard on the writing and structure of the story, but even there, I back off, especially with nobody. I mean, I sort of, to some extent, with the action films, I sort of say, I'm here to work on it until we get to page 50. Yeah. And once we get to page 50 and the big action is going, you tell me where to stand. Right. Yeah.

Because until, once that starts, I don't know what's, you get into a magical. mythical world of violence and well i don't i don't have any bearings and i can't tell you have you have you gotten advice from like a keanu reeves or a tom cruise about how to do action films how to be an action star um no it's all learning on my own and the one thing that's the greatest challenge for me is and i fucked up um two times on screen that I don't want to tell you what I'm. And it's on, it's in the final but I also have fixed it a few times. So what I, what I do that is wrong, that I do wrong. Yeah. Is one of the things that I thought I could, you know, when I thought about doing this, when I

saw the opportunity was possible, you know, I thought a lot about what can I bring to this genre. Yeah. Well, I really am not super handsome, super young, or super muscular. So I'm really a guy you don't expect to be the hero. Sure. And to win the fight. So one thing I can do is bring a vulnerability and a presence, a surprise when I kick into some gear. Yeah. Because you really don't expect it.

No matter, you know, you can put, you know, the rock. You can put glasses on him and a tie. And you still go, he's going to kick somebody's ass. Yeah. That's right. Say he's an accountant. Right. You're just like finish the book.

so you can kick the ass. Right. It's like, yes, the adage about the, once there's a gun on stage, the gun's going to go off during the play. The rock is going to kick someone's ass. From the first, you know, shock. That's the gun. And I'm not.

Yes. And so I thought I could bring a vulnerability. Yeah. Well, that vulnerability, and I wanted to play pain. Yeah. Like, obviously not real pain, but I wanted to at least play, you know, oh, fuck. You know, that hurt.

Yeah. And holding stuff and limping. and kind of building it. As the fight goes, I'm getting less flexible. Yeah. So I thought I could play that. But I discovered using some sensitivity and instinct

that you can be too vulnerable. Oh, interesting. They still want a hero. Yes. And so... Right, the audience wants a hero. Yeah. And if you're too weak,

yeah. There's a point, I think, where you're watching that person, you go like, I can't be on his side. Yeah. He's, I think he's gonna get killed or he's feeling too much pain. And I think I've taken it too far at times. Yeah.

And I did, I'm proud of myself in Nobody 2. There was a scene towards the end. And I shot it and we shot it and it was cold and it was an all night shoot. And we got the shot. Okay, we got it. And I was like, wait, let me watch it back. I watched it back. I said, I got to do it again.

Yeah. I got to do it again. Wow. because I was just being too vulnerable, too hurt, too in pain, too, and I'm like, I can't, I can't, I can't keep cheering for that guy almost. Oh, that's interesting. And so, we did it again and I said, and only use that take. Only use that take. Do not touch the other takes. Anyway. We played brothers on a TV pilot that didn't go to air. Yeah. Good one. Pretty good, I think.

Yeah. It was like in 2008, and we should play brothers again. I think so. We got to figure out a movie where it makes sense that we... I actually have a story. You have a story? I totally do. Are you serious?

You have a brother's story? Well, a brother's in it, and it's important. Oh. And did you write it yet? I've been working on it, yeah. Oh, my gosh. It's a... It's like the opposite.

opposite of everything I've been doing. No kidding. It's like a, like a, well, Nicole Hollis Center and I were talking about it. Oh, I love Nicole. Oh, I love Nicole. One of my favorite filmmakers. So I continue to develop it, Nicole, if you're watching.

And I'm going to keep trying to get that to happen. But it's, it would be great. Oh, I would love that. Well, it's funny because you're saying this thing that, rings true to me so much, which is about movies, which is it has to be a story that you have to make. Right. It has to be.

And I feel like you learn that, you can learn that the hard way. Yeah. Because movies, people don't realize this. It takes you years to write a movie, at least a year to write a movie. It takes you a year to shoot a movie, basically a year to edit.

And by the time it gets out, it's like at least three to five years that you've spent on one story. Right. So that better be a good story. And when it comes out in the world, it will be attacked. Yes.

And you want to feel like it was worth it. I had to try. I couldn't not try to write and make that movie. And whether you think you pulled it off and all the critics are wrong, or you think, I'm sorry the critics are right. I just didn't finish this thing.

Yeah. I didn't get it. You still want to feel like I did everything I could, and I wanted to tell that story. Because when you feel like I didn't need to, I didn't want to fully, I wasn't all there, and it didn't work, that's the fucking worst.

That's pain. And you're saying the critics are right, and I didn't try as hard as I could have. Awful. That's the fucking worst. The worst. First, you want to call every critic and go, you're right. What you want to be able to say is you're right, but fuck you, man, I had to do that.

I had to do that. I stand up for myself. Well, it's funny, like, I just saw you in Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross, and you're brilliant in it. Your character is an amazing David Mamet character who has high highs and lollos and high highs. From one line to the next. But what's funny about it is, seeing, within a week of itself, seeing you in Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross,

reading your book, your book is a lot of that. Your book is you're up, you're down, you're up, you're a big star, you have nothing, you're frustrated. Do you feel like you drew on that in the performance? I'll tell you the truth. Oh, for sure, for sure. I do draw on all the ups and downs, yes. Yeah.

I will say in my book, I had a great desire to talk as much as possible about failure. Yeah. And I think I did. Yeah. But the truth is I didn't share all the failure. Right. There's more. There's more.

That didn't make it into the book because it was too much. Yeah. It was. And also, honest, let's face it, it's hard to talk about a TV show that you maybe spent eight months on. that you made or didn't make, made the pilot, rewrote the pilot four times, and nobody's ever seen it, and you can't read it anywhere. Yeah, that's right.

It's hard to share that with an audience. Yeah. And go like, oh, it was good here and it was bad there. And like, I don't know, I can't read it. I can't see it. Yeah. I just got to believe you that this is what, how do I know any of that is true?

That's right. You know, but I mean, I wrote pilots that got passed on. I wrote and made pilots that I went, oh, fuck, that's, it's, I didn't feel. figure it out. Yeah. And I wrote pilots that I thought, this is really good. Yeah.

And I had the, I had one network executive once call me and go, this is the best pilot I've ever read. Yeah. We're passing on it. That's funny. And I knew. And I knew. I've ever read him passing on it.

And I knew he was right. I knew that it was solid. It's just a fickle business. Like it, it, it, it, it, I think, yeah. And then the why they pick one show over another can be reasons that. seem empty and stupid. Yeah. But maybe pan out or they have a whole different job than you.

Your job is to think about what you care about and a point of view you have on it, something worth sharing with the world and then pursue it. And then their job is to decide what to show people. I don't know. I met you and you wouldn't remember this. When you did the naked improv sketch at Radio City, I was at that show.

So crazy. It was unbelievable. It's such a thin premise. We did it probably seven years earlier, and we did it at our first time we ever did anything together. Yeah. Me and David, which was the Montreal Comedy Festival. Yeah. Where he invited me to come up with him.

And we just made up shit that day and did it that night somewhere. Yeah. And we did that bit. And we talked about if we ever did a big charity event, this would be a bit to do. And we did it one more time. I don't remember where. And then we got invited to do Comic Relief 8. And we're like, well, we're doing that sketch.

It was on HBO, and I was in a live audience. And the premise is basically you're doing improv, yeah. Hey, everybody, we've had a good time. We had done some bit earlier. I had a good time tonight. I'm, you know, we're actors from L.A., David Cross, Bob Odenkirk. I am, actually, David's a teacher of improv. And I've been taking his classes.

And we're going to do a, if you're up for it, we'd like to do an improv for you. And David goes, okay, we're going to have fun. It's called Naked Phrase Guests. Bob, you're going to, I'm going to ask the audience for a, you're going to leave the stage. I'm going to ask the audience for a phrase. Then I'm going to tell it. Then you're going to come back on stage and we will do a scene and you will have to try to guess the phrase from the clues of acting this. scene.

Yeah. I go, that's great. That sounds like fun. I've never done that. That's great. And then he goes, okay, great. So go offstage, you know, where you can't hear, we'll have somebody monitor the door and take your clothes off and come back out here when you get, when you're told to come

back out. I go, yeah, great, great. I go, wait, wait, wait. I'm sorry, what? Just go, you have to go where you can't hear. So otherwise you're going to hear the phrase. So go off to that room. We have a room for you.

take your clothes off and then come back out on stage and we'll get going. And I go, okay, I'm sorry. You want me to take my clothes off? Yeah, well, it's called Naked Freezeguess and that's what it, you have to, it's part of the thing.

Okay, I don't know, I don't know. I've never done this. I'll go, okay. And I go and I take my clothes off. I did put a sock over my, yeah. And I put my hand over the sock. And then I came,

out in Radio City. There's a call. David had gotten a phrase. And then part of the joke is that I get the phrase pretty quickly, but he keeps going. And the audience is like, he said the phrase. And at some point, I'm sensing that I'm just being played with.

And I go, you fucking asshole. You fucking lied to me. I go, you said it. Whatever. And everyone cheers for me. Yeah, the crowd went nuts. I thought it was like one of the most punk rock live comedy bits I'd ever seen. It's insane. stupid and and I was totally, I had no issue with it and I could do it today and proudly show off my 62-year-old body.

But the truth is, the hardest part is when you're done with the sketch. As soon as the sketch is over, you're like, I'm fucking naked. What the fuck happened? And I know that's weird because you're like, you're sentient. You know you got naked and got it. But again, there's something wrong with me. Yes. Which is probably one reason I have some facility as an actor.

And I'm able to do that. Yeah. And not until the sketch is over, am I embarrassed at all? Right. Right, you say this in the book. You're like, I wouldn't, as Bob Odenkirk, get naked. But that's what the character... He's got to get naked.

He's got to get naked. Look, when I watch myself... in editing bays. Yeah. I've never said, cut me or cut me back or that, I say that guy. That guy, yeah. That guy's enough of that guy. Yeah.

I'm talking about me, but I don't say, I just don't think of it that way. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. It's a little fucked up because it's, um. Certain type of disassociation. Yeah. Yeah. It's, so I met you at the party after comic relief that night.

I came up to you. Oh my God, I'm a college improviser, and I love that sketch. That was amazing. And you were talking to Bob Zamuda, who was Andy Kaufman's comedy partner. Yeah. legendary, Bob Zimuda. And it was really funny.

I'll always remember this. You go, listen, I'm talking to Bob Zimuda right now. I can't talk to you, but good luck. that's indicative of like a certain type of candor you have because that's so specific. I do think that all I know how to do is sometimes just being simply honest is just the very best thing you can ever do. Yeah. In awkward moments. Yeah. I'm awkward right now.

This isn't upsetting to me or whatever you want to say. You know, we do the sign line and the autograph line. after the Broadway show, I don't know when this became part of Broadway. Yes. It's fucking, you have to do it. The stage door. You fucking have to do it. Stage door is a big thing.

I missed one night. I got a call from the producers. Wow. I heard you're not doing that. I go, wait, I skipped one night. I thought it's not part of the job. Right. No, but, you know, the audience kind of.

I'm like, I mean, really? You want to put that in the contract next time? You know, but I get it. it has become a tradition. It's a culture. It's not cool. It's, we just did a show for you. Maybe two in the day.

Maybe two. Yeah. And now I have to sign 80 fucking autographs and, you know, but whatever. The people are, couldn't be nicer. Yeah. And I get, you get compliments from people, but it can be weird. There can be weird moments. Yeah.

And you know, the best way, I think the best way to handle it is just say, this is a weird moment. Yeah. You want something from me that I don't have time to give. Yeah. I understand that. but I can't do it. And just say as honestly, simply, flatly as possible

what's happening here and why it's not. Anyway, not that you needed that explanation. No, no. It's funny because you have a thing that I try to practice too, which is you're obsessed with, like, you know, if you have a movie script, you have friends over and do a reading of it. Yeah, yeah.

You kind of workshop things. I always say to people who watch this show or listen to this show, if you're a creative, try to find a few people who do the same thing and just read each other your stuff and talk about your stuff. And that's kind of always my advice. And it's like, how did you arrive at that as an idea? Yeah. Maybe you could say it's taken a little while. I do think, you know, I had a strange misplaced confidence when I was very very, young doing it, but you need that too.

Yeah. You need this kind of weird like, oh, fuck it, I can do this better than them when you're like, no, you definitely can't. Yeah. You need that weird drive and certainty or maybe just the joy of doing it is so great that it gets you through. Yeah. But I'll tell you, there's, that's been a hard thing for me to navigate.

Yeah. how much I share the decision-making with other people. I came out of Mr. Show feeling like that was fun. I'm really proud of it, but I was too much of a, I was too powerful in that room, and I was too demanding of people that my way or the highway. I'm proud of it. I think everyone is, but can I be a more collaborative person?

Yeah. And I would say I went and made some projects where I was too collaborative. Yeah. Where I said, I don't like that thing, but these two people like it. So it stays in. Yeah. And that can be a mistake too. Yeah.

Because it's like, it's hard to modulate. Right. I think when you're directing a movie and you're writing a movie, you no matter, you've got to try to see other people's points of view. See what they're pointing to when they say, why don't you do this with that? Why doesn't this happen? See what they're pointing to.

Maybe you don't use their choice of where it goes, but they're pointing to something uncertainty, a weakness maybe. Yeah. And it could be a weakness just in your presentation of like, they're not hearing what you think is important, so they're going another way. So you have to make that clearer, you know. But you do have to own it in the end, you know, as your movie proves.

You do it have to go like, I just think it needs to be this way. You have to. Right. Well, it's the difference between you having the vision and you supporting someone else's vision, I think. Yeah. I'd say these action films have been very collaborative. And because, again, there is a point in those films where I don't know what I'm doing. And I know that.

And I say, I don't know. Right. You're the vessel. I don't know what's happening. I don't know what you can do here now. Right. Or on page 60, and I just got thrown, you know, across the room. You know, that bad guy has sent 80 people after me, and I don't know where to start with that.

You've had, you know, in your movie, there's like a home, in the first one, there's a home invasion. Yeah. You had a home invasion? Two. Two. Two. Two home invasions, yeah. One was very disturbing. One was also disturbing, but a little less so. Well, what was the first one?

Well, I really won't tell the whole story, but I woke up. My kids were young. My son was 12. My daughter was 10. And it was like 6 a.m. And I got up. Our house was kind of split into two sides of the bedrooms over here and then this side of the kitchen and the living room. and I walk into this area

and to get the breakfast started and stuff and all the windows are open and the door is open. And I thought first of all the cat got out, of course. We got to find the goddamn cat. And then also, but who did that? And then I thought, well, okay, okay, okay, okay. There was 2 a.m., there was a skunk.

My wife got up. She opened all the windows. The door fell open. Okay. And she put the cat downstairs. Yeah. So that must be what happened, a skunk. Because that can happen.

Yeah. Not that it happens a lot. Yeah. So I tell my son, go downstairs, see if you can find the cat. And I'm going to go outside and see if I can find the cat under the porch area. It shut all these windows. So I go out there, I'm looking, looking, looking, and my son comes up and he goes, there's a man downstairs.

Oh my gosh. And I go, okay, do you know who it is? And he goes, no. And I go, okay, we'll go to the other side of the house. Shut the door. Tell mom and you guys stay there. I'm going to call the police. I call the police.

I open the front door. I get out my baseball bat. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Come on. Come on. Come on. Louisville Slugger.

Let's go. You know why we got those bats. So. dumb. So dumb, but what the fuck else am I going to do? I don't know. I didn't have a golf club nearby. Then what?

Train? Get mace? I'm on the edge of my seat. Then what? And I yelled downstairs. I go, the police are on their way. You can walk out the front door if you want. I'll let you walk out.

Just come up and walk out and you'll be fine. The police are on their way. Wow. Nothing. No, said it again. Nothing. Of course, if the guy had come up the stairs, I'm standing there with a baseball.

I don't know. Police show up, go downstairs. Time goes by, a few minutes, comes back up. He goes, I called for backup. I mean, I think I counted 13 cops, two detectives and 11 cops, with guns. Go downstairs. They eventually brought the guy up. he was, I don't want to go into the specifics,

but he was not anyone I knew, and he was clearly like a meth-ed-out. His eyes were going in two different directions. Wow. And then a few years later, not dissimilar, really. We woke up, the car was gone. My guitar was gone.

All the computers are gone. And on security cameras, the guy comes in at 2 a.m., he was able to open the garage from the remote that was in the car that was parked outside. He goes in, he takes all the important stuff, puts it in my wife's car,

and drives away and shuts the garage door. He was a pro. He was there to take things, not to interact with anyone, not to have any problems. You got to respect that. Yeah, no weapons on him, I'm sure. Had a plan.

Had a vision. Yes. He's an artist of sorts. And, uh, So, the way those two incidents are operative to making these films is I, the feelings I had regarding those incidents, it's just were always fresh. Yeah. Years later. Yeah, how could you ever shake that?

Years later. Yeah. And I'm a nonviolent guy. Yeah. But honestly, you let me have a few minutes with that first guy. Yeah. I don't want to see it. I would throw anything I.

I could at him. Yeah. All your dad's anger would come out at that guy. I don't give a shit. Yeah. I don't give a shit how high he was. I don't give a shit what his problems were. Yeah.

Well, it's your baby bear. Yeah. It's animalistic. It's, you're protecting your family. And I, what's potentially good about a movie with such expression is you get to express it. You get to unlock it. Yes. And I like just acknowledging that it exists.

Yeah. Yes. And not pretending that you don't feel those things. Yeah. Yeah. I do feel those things. Yeah. This is a thing that we loved that you said, which is out of 100 movies, there's two classics, there's 12 worth seeing, there's another 15 that are fine, the rest are just a mess.

Why do you think that is? And what are your two good movies? What are two good movies? There's too many moving parts in a movie. There's just too much that you have to have a degree of luck and magic. Yeah. And you should kill yourself when you make a movie. And you should work on every detail.

And you should take it to the limit. And when you're in editing, here's what you should do. Everything you can think of to make it work. That's right. but it still may not work at all. Amen. That's just movies. That's movies.

And honestly, the most button-down films, obviously Kubrick is referenced as a filmmaker who was wildly detail-oriented. Yes, perfections. I'm not a huge fan of his stuff. No, it doesn't make me feel anything. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of like a painting.

The closest for me is like full-metal jacket. Right. Where I'm like, oh, it shakes me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And God bless him. And maybe the shining. Yeah, I'm glad for the fans. He's got massive fans and I respect them.

They're smart, but it's kind of like, you know. But what's your, okay, so if it's not Kubrick, then who really puts you in that zone? Oh, well, I love the movie Chinatown, I think is my favorite film. Truly. American graffiti is a great film. Ron Howard. Really great film. Ron Howard.

I want to tell you. I think the best acting. Yeah. Maybe ever is. Yeah. Not Daniel Day Lewis. Okay. He's great.

Very good. Ricky Jervas in the first office. Unbelievable. No argument. No argument. He's fantastic. It's crazy how real he feels. And how much there's layers in what he's doing.

How much like pain. is inside this absolute clown of a human. He clearly tapped into something personal in himself. Yeah. It really ranks. Yeah, I think so too. Slow round. Who were you jealous of?

Everybody right now. I really am. It's crazy. I've just done this thing. But after the last five years, I feel so off balance. Yeah? Yeah.

Who's the person you thought of that you didn't say specifically? Oh, who I'm jealous of? Who you're jealous of? Gee, I... Anybody who's still got little kids at home growing up. Oh. Yeah, there's no question I knew what I was doing when I had kids growing up. Yeah.

I was being a dad. I mean, that was my job. And I didn't have to ask myself, what am I doing here? What am I doing? How can I be a part of this world? How can I be meaningful today? Yeah. I didn't have to ask that question because the fucking answer is pick up everything between here and the door.

Yeah, that's right. And make sure they get to school and have a laugh with them. Yeah. You know, life was, I understood my purpose. Best answer. And, you know, I'm surrounded by these guys who have kids, you know, Cured Colkin and Bill Burr. And I envy them. Yeah.

I envy them as stressed as they are. Yeah. because they have to do this job and takes them away. I guess you know who you are when you leave here. You absolutely know who you are. Yeah. You're a dad. Anyway.

No, I love that. What's the best piece of advice someone's giving you that you used? Oh, that I used. Daniel Bernhardt told me my trainer in a kind of an angry way. Not that he was angry at me, but he was like we were exercising and I was like, talking about losing weight, not that I wanna lose weight, but it just had come across in our conversation.

He goes, you don't lose weight by working out. Yeah. You lose it by eating right. He's angry. Yep. I go, what? He goes, people think you fucking lose weight by working out.

It's 80% diet. And from that moment on, I cut way back on sugar. Yeah. And it's been amazing, amazing. I did not think that was gonna be the answer. Why? What did you think? would be something about writing or something or being alive.

I mean, I, I, I, one of the most pedigreeed comedy writers in the last century. I'm like, what's the best piece of advice I'm giving you? He's like, you gotta cut sugar. You gotta cut carbs, you just gotta. Arguably, I've been the most, the biggest gym rat of the last six years. Can you remember a moment in your life

where you were kind of an inauthentic version of yourself? Oh, a lot of times. Yeah. Pretty much any interview I do. Oh, really? Well. But this feels pretty real? On the red carpet.

Oh, not here. Yeah, yeah. This feels pretty much. Yeah, yeah. But any red carpet interview. Yeah. Any red carpet interview. Yeah.

Look, look, look. It's a thing. Did you ever think you'd be a celebrity? No. No. No. Yeah, I thought it'd be a writer. Yeah, I thought it'd be a writer.

Yeah. And I understood that PR was part of that at some point. Yeah. But the amount of PR that I've done or asked to do, I mean, of course, it appeals to your ego. People want to, what do you think? What do you do? Yeah, yeah. Where'd you come from?

Yeah. And that's pretty great. It's pretty nice, special feeling. Yeah. But I never trained for it, planned for it, thought much about it. And at some point, I realized what you have to do is you have to remember. remember that you are sitting at a wedding table. Yeah.

And it's not your wedding. Yeah. And the uncle of the person getting married is sitting next to you. And the neighbor and a young person who's younger than you and the nephew. Yeah. And you don't know them and they don't know you. They don't really know what you do. And you, they are always, that's.

that's who you're talking to when you're on a talk show, when you're on a red carpet. And you're at someone else's wedding. Yeah. And you have to be clear. Yeah, yeah. And when people go, you're better call Saul. You have to go, yes, I play that character.

My name is Bob Odenk, and I'm an actor. And I was on a show called Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul. And you may think you sound like an ass, but you're not. because there's a bunch of people watching who are going, oh, I never knew that. Breaking Bad, I've heard of that show. And we all think we can just be ourselves and chat and make comments and be calm and casual.

You can't. You have to be on your presenting. And these are kind strangers who have somehow, through YouTube, or the TV that was just on, being forced to listen to you. They don't know who you are. Yes.

The final thing we do is working it out for a cause. Is there an organization that you like to support and we will contribute to them and then link to them in the show notes? Oh, great. Food on Foot is an amazing organization in L.A. that I help out. And they really have a program that helps people

who are unhoused find work and housing. That's fantastic. It's a long-term thing that work with people over the course of a long period of time. Yeah. And it is wonderful, and they've done amazing work. We'll contribute to food on foot. We'll link in the show notes. And Bob Odenkirk, such an absolute honor.

Thank you, buddy. I barely have the composure to speak with you because I'm in such awe of all of your work. Well, that's very nice of you. Working it out because it's not done. Working it out because there's no... That's going to do it for another episode of Working It Out.

You can follow Bob on Instagram at The Real Bob Odenkirk. The full video, this one. Like two people looking in a mirror, basically twins. It's on YouTube. Subscribe because we're going to be

posting more and more videos. Check out Burbiggs.com to sign up for the mailing list and be the first to know about my upcoming shows. Our producers of working it out or myself along with Peter Salomon, Joseph Barbigley,

and Mabel Lewis, associate producer, Gary Simons, Sound Mix by Shub Sarin, supervising engineer Kate Balinski. Special thanks to Jack Antonoff and bleachers for their music. Special thanks to my wife, the poet Jay Hopstein. And our daughter, Una, who built the original Radio Fort made of pillows. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. If you enjoy this podcast, please do us a little favor.

Go on Apple Podcasts. Put a little review in. Say, hey, I like this one. I like this other one. Super helpful, especially if people are just finding the show and they don't know where to start. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. Tell your friends.

Tell your enemies, let's say, you think someone's your friend. And then you do an improv scene where they trick you into becoming naked in front of Radio City Music Hall. And after the show, you could go, hey, I want to talk you about something. I was completely naked in Radio City,

and it was a little embarrassing. But, you know, maybe we could talk out our process together. And we could learn a few things by listening to this podcast. It's Mike Berbigley. He talks out process and jokes and tags And maybe the tag could be you get naked next time Thanks everybody, we're working it out

We'll see you next time