Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - Jenny Slate: Unafraid of Sadness

Episode Date: May 25, 2026

(Recorded October 2025) The great Jenny Slate joins Mike this week for a wide-ranging conversation about getting hypnotized after being fired from SNL, a graduation speech Jenny gave to a class of one person, and making art to feel less lonely. Plus, jokes and stories about seeing your friends naked, improv classes for the elderly, and the time Jenny’s faked case of appendicitis went too far. Please consider donating to NPR Mike's tour dates: https://www.birbigs.com/tour-dates Text BIRBIGS to 917-444-7150 for updates Find Mike: Website: https://birbigs.com/ Instagram: https://instagram.com/birbigs/ Facebook: https://facebook.com/birbigfans TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@mikebirbiglia Find Jenny: Website: https://www.thejennyslate.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jennyslate/ Hosted and Produced by Mike Birbiglia Producers: Peter Salomone, Joseph Birbiglia, Mabel Lewis, Gary Simons Video Consultant: Graham Willoughby Special Thanks: Marissa Hurwitz, Josh Upfal, David Raphael, Nina Cwik, J. Hope Stein, Oona Music: Jack Antonoff and Bleachers Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

With Marcel O'Shello's re-watching it this morning, and what stuck out to me is like, it's so funny, and then it's like unafraid of being sad. I'm glad you think that, because I guess that's, like, I don't want to do that kind of, like, grad school short story about something really upsetting so that the story can be serious and good. But, like, there is something about being sad, essentially, like, not being acceptable,

just like sort of baseline sorrow. I agree. That makes me feel scared. And I went through a lot of years of like, why am I always as a friendly person who likes to have fun? And likes romance and chilling out. Why am I so sad? Yeah.

Like so sad. Yeah. And it just felt like if I couldn't try to talk about that or get into it a bit, it really was as if I was, like, lonely for that part of myself that couldn't be included. Working it out,

because it's not done. Working it out. That is the voice of the great Jenny Slate. This is one of our favorite episodes. This was originally aired last year, and if you are a comedy fan, you know Jenny Slate. She does stand up comedy.

She is an actress. She is a writer. Her latest comedy special is called Seasons Professional. It's on Amazon Prime. You may have seen her starring in the film Obvious Child, which I love. Of course, Marcel de Shell with shoes on, which she co-wrote and stars in.

We talk a lot about that film today. That one really hit me hard. We talk about the unique way that the Marcel de Shell film was made. Jenny is someone who I've wanted to have on this show for a while, so I was thrilled that we made it work. She actually baked banana bread for me and our producers when we recorded this, which was lovely. By the way, thanks to everybody who has been text messaging for alerts on my tour.

You can just text for Biggs to 917-444-7-1-50 to be the first to know about my upcoming shows. I'm probably going to do a pop-up show at a little spot in Boston next week. And so if you got your 617 or 508 or whatever, other area code you have there. I will text you about sort of a new material show I'm doing a buzzing. Anyway, sign up for that and enjoy this conversation with Jenny Slate. We talk about sadness in relation to comedy. Jenny, of course, hosts her own podcast with Max Silvestri and Gabe Liebman. It's called I Need You Guys. And you can listen to it every Thursday on the Serious XM app or wherever you get your podcasts. Jenny used to do a live show with Max and Gabe called The Big Terrific,

which I did a bunch of times. It was awesome. We talk about that and so much more. Enjoy my conversation with the great Jenny Slate. There's always a couple more. Jokes to explore. Let's make more. It's funny, you have this great moment in your special where you go,

and this is the part of the special where my mom turns it off. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like that about my entire, every special I have. Do your parents watch your work? Not really. Yeah, same. Oh, Sam?

I mean, they'll watch it if I'm like, can you watch that? But, like, I'm, I don't do that. I don't really ask them to. But they have, well, I think they've watched at least my second special. And probably my first, because they were in it. I would imagine they were curious. Yeah. It's interesting.

Like, it is an interesting thing. And also, like, your dad is a poet. So it's like, you know, in some ways, it's not that dissimilar from even what you do. poetry. Yeah, I wonder like if that's why sometimes I'm like is there something about what I do that's too close to I mean I wouldn't call my act of poetry

In any way? I know why you wouldn't because you don't want to That would be crazy too. That would be self-serving and pretend Just but I think there's a lot of poetry to what you do. That's nice of you to say. Yeah, I mean I think first I was like And sounds. And sounds Lots of like I think first

I was just talking to Gabe Liedman and Max Silvestri about this yesterday because we were like, why did Gabe's parents, they like always drove from Philly to see us at Rafi Fifi? Oh, that's sweet. And that's when you and I met. Yes, exactly. A zillion years ago. And you know what, I mean, what that was like was like,

you might have 14 people in the audience and that was fine. No, I performed on your show. There was definitely nights for there was 14 people. Oh, yeah, it fucking sucked. I mean, we didn't suck, but it just. It didn't suck, though, because it was, you guys were always, and I'm sure the podcast will be like this, you guys were always so supportive and fun.

Oh, that's good. And you made the show fun no matter what. Like it was called Big Terrific. And it was like, it was just joyous. It was. And it was always. But that, that deeply humbling, like, whoa, this is, I really must really want to do this because I'm performing for 11 people thing is, that's like in my, um, in me now.

Oh, yeah. Like, it's, I'll just never forget what that feels like. And, like, performing for six people, but, like, on the nights where there would only be, like, maybe three. And then you have to be like, you know what, guys, we're going to call it. Yeah. And then I would be flooded with relief that I didn't have to do the show and then flooded with shame that it happened that way.

Yeah, yeah. That's a real one-two punch right in the nads. There's nothing worse than calling off. a show that you convinced those people to show up. Those three. You're like, no, no, it's going to be good. Yep. We have a great lineup.

They believed. Eugene Merman's popping in. Yeah, totally. This is happening. This is happening. And then you go, actually, we're not having the show. And then you have to say that to Eugene, by the way. Right.

It's not even, it's like, and actually, I am going to have to tell, you know, John Glazer and John Benjamin, who I am so obsessed with that I can't even talk to them or look at their faces that we actually didn't get enough people to come here to watch them. It's so pride swallowing. Yeah. It's like you eat shit. I think it's good. It's good for us.

Yeah, no, it's some pride swallowing or whatever is actually just bad for a person's self-esteem. Right. You know, like I fucking hate tough love, but, but some things, honestly, I mean, not to sound like a hybrid between like, the greatest generation. Yeah, that's how you always, that's how you read, for sure. Geriatric millennial, but it's like some challenges, some humblings that are not, you know, oppressive humblings, but like it's just, hey man, you're actually, you're just like a tiny speck and that's okay.

Yeah. Our very character building and passion building and appetite building. You did improv with Gabe in college, right? Yes. And Max or no? No. Max didn't go to college with us. We met him when we were 22.

So you did it with Gabe. You started the group? Yeah. Well, it was like something else had a different name. There were two groups. One was called six milks. Six milks. I don't know.

Yeah, six milks. And then the other one that Gabe and I were in was called two left feet. Two left feet. And I was like, okay. Got it. You guys are joking around. But anyway, we combined the two groups, created a new group, which was called Fruit Ponce. Again, why do college students name their stuff stuff?

Yeah. I can see it in your work. Like, I can see the improv. Yeah. I feel like you have an improvisational spirit to your stand-up. Your stand-up feels unpredictable. Yeah, or unplanned. Unplanned, unpredictable.

It is. I mean, I follow a, like a bullet point system. Yeah. Like what you have here behind you, that's what it looks like on a page before I go up and then I like shuffle things around as I'm going and nothing is ever like written. Because I find that to be very boring. Yeah. I can't, I can't do it. I have some stuff I say, you know, like to a turn of phrase.

Yeah. But everything else, it's like, who does she want to be tonight? I love your stand-up though because it does feel, it does feel. It feels unrehearsed and it feels like it doesn't feel like anyone else. That's a nice thing to say. I feel the same way about you. Geez. Thanks.

How much writing do you do? I write a lot. Yeah. So much of it's just junk. Well, for all of us. Yeah, yeah, of course. You know, I mean, you got to, like, I just feel like you kind of like blow out the pipes. Blow out the pipes.

Yeah. Like write all the bad stuff and the good stuff. Just like keep writing it down. Yeah. It's my deal. But I have a folder called scraps. Scraps. Like on my computer.

I respect that so much. Scraps. There is also one called, I think it's called Fragments and Problems. That's good. Yeah. And even in my first special, which was with Netflix, they were like, can you write out what you'll do? And I was like, no. I can't.

Yeah. Like it'll ruin it. It'll make me feel like I hate it. Yeah. I just have never once written anything out. Everything just has a title like Dad's Nightgown. I have a similar thing which is I'll write out the bit and then I will go up on stage and do my best version of it from memory.

Yeah. And it usually doesn't, it's not what I wrote verbatim. But isn't that kind of like, I mean, not that I've ever been on a date that is like this, but it's how I imagine dating to be. Or just like dinner party, let's say. This is like the metaphor that I've used is like, you know your memories. Like, and you probably know, not in a sociopathic way, but you probably know like, oh my gosh, yeah, I can't, oh, I can't wait to tell you this story. Yes.

Like the other day I was telling Rachel Antonoff and Jack Antonoff, brother, sister, who I call, my husband calls them the cousins. The cousins. My cousins were very Amish. I told them this story about when I was on a summer program and I had a crush on a boy. and I was like pretty sure that we were making eye contact across the cafeteria. And at the time, Romeo and Juliet had come out like with Leonardo DiCaprio and I was obsessed with him. Fishbowl scene, etc. Just so, yeah, yeah, yeah, big time.

And I love that movie and whatever. And like he just, it was like a big point of my like raging horniness. You know? And I was like, this boy. looks like him, and he is straight up looking at me. And I had, like, recently, I was 16. I'd gotten my braces off. I'd just gotten my period.

I had a bra. It was like a big deal for me. Big moment, yeah. Huge. And I started hanging out with him and a bunch of people in a group. I had a nickname, which was duty, which is not a good nickname, but I thought it was cool. So you were ready to go. Yeah, yeah.

Now I'm just telling the story. But I'm telling the story in service of trying to say something else, unfortunately. But anyway, I was like, this guy. likes me. I had never kissed a boy before. I heard him and another couple of boys in the room below. I was on the balcony above and they were on the balcony below and they didn't know I was up there. And someone was like, yeah, we're going to go out and dada, da, da, and duty's going to come with us. And I was like, and he goes, who's duty? And I was like, oh, man, he doesn't even know my nickname. And then they're like, you know, Jenny. And he's like, who's Jenny? And I was like, what?

This fucking guy, like, he's definitely been staring at me. Like, it doesn't even know my name. Brutal. And then one of the other boys goes, you know, she's that girl that looks like a chicken. And then he goes, oh, no, no, no, I know what you mean. She's that girl that looks like a lizard. And then they were like, no, she looks like a chicken. And then it was like, chicken, lizard, chicken, lizard.

And it was like, oh, oh, oh, oh, ah. Like, it just hurt. It hurt so badly. And it was like, oh, like, huh. Like, I walk around being like everyone thinks I'm ugly. But then there's like this other part of me that's like, you're not ugly. You just think that because people are mean to at school. Right.

But then I heard them like say it. Confirmation. And it was like, we were in another country. Yeah. It was like, this is like we're in England and they also think it. So I might be, I need a little more time to cook this thing. But anyway, that story, for example. Yeah.

It's like you know your stories. Right. Why would you write them down? Right. You can remember that. Yeah. You just tell them to the person and try to feed their joy that might be happening. I always have to remind myself of that because I write out jokes and then I have to remind myself like, just do it in my own words.

Yeah. Because that's what the audience craves. Yeah. I just want to hear the story. Yes. My director always says that to me. Like, I'll get nervous before a show and I'll go like, just tell the story. Yeah.

Like, right. Right. All it is is just telling this story. Yeah, but there's a lot to get past to be the version of yourself that can do that. Oh, yeah. You went to a hypnotist. Oh, yeah. Is that early?

Was that, like, when I first met you kind of thing? No. I had no, I used to have stage, like, kind of like, like, fun, uncomfortable excitement. Like, all through Rafi, through being at Sound Fix or Cameo, like, when we were in Williamsburg. And then I just got stage right when I got fired from SNL, like, straight up. No way. It, like, fucked me up a little bit. And then I moved to L.A.

And like, and there were three years also where, like, I did this thing where every, you know, general meeting I would go on. I felt like I had to be like, I got fired, you know, like, say it, even though nobody cared. Right. It was like a weird, like, swollen but collapsed ego or something. You know, it just was like the worst situation. No, of course. Fucking sucked. And then, but Nick Kroll was like, I'm doing a show on Comedy Central.

which became Krollshel. And he, like, gave me my first job after being fired, which meant so much to me because I really admired him so much, you know, continual admiration forever. But I still had the stage fright. And I believe Nick was going to the hypnotist for, like, something else, maybe smoking. I can't speak for him.

Let's just say smoking. Maybe smoking. I think Aziz went to the same person. Oh, okay. There were all these people going there. I got to hit that hypnotist. I'm not sure. How come?

I don't think it worked. I mean, it sounds like it worked. Like, maybe enough. Nick doesn't smoke anymore and you get on stage. It did help to get me back on stage. Mm-hmm. And to get rid of, like, a lot of the kind of, like, undead at the door. Yeah.

You know, like, every time we watch The Last of Us and the, like, what are they called? The Clickers. The Clickers. Yeah, like they're like, like, I'm like, that's what it feels like to have stage right. Oh, that's interesting. They're like, ha. Like they're right there and they're like, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick. Yeah, yeah.

That's what it feels like to me. And I still have it really badly to the point where, like, I haven't actually done stand-up in a really long time. Really? Yeah. So you still have it? Yeah. I mean, what's crazy is, just saying to my wife downstairs,

I was like, Jenny Slate's coming over doing the podcast. And she goes, do you remember that right after she got fired from us now, we ran into her or something? And she was like, I don't know what I'm going to do. I fucked up so badly. That sounds like something I'd say. And we were both like, you're going to be great, this is going to be great. And then notably, notably, you went on to have like this unbelievable career that I would say, arguably,

between Marcel's shell and obvious child, like arguably you might not have had time for if you were in SNL for fucking nine years or whatever. For sure. No, no. It's better. The end result is better. The life that I've had is really good for me. I don't think there's like, it's weird to fail at something that you get there and you're like,

I thought I was good at what this is, but I didn't even get what it was. I thought it would be like my college improv group. Right. And then it's like this whole system. Right. And it's a TV show. Yeah. There's cue cards.

There's cue cards, which obviously I wasn't good at. And there's like politics, but it's also social. and it was really confusing to me because everyone was so nice like in my cast but it was like huh this is a weird fit

and like I'm going down but it's different than let's say having a soulmate and it not working out like where you're like I genuinely don't get that we were meant to be

like the second I walked in there I was like this isn't what I thought right because you have I mean I always have thought that about that show. I've always been a fan of the show, but I've thought, like, I would never have fit in in the cast

or as a writer because there's so many moving parts and you have to, like, you're saying, like, it's regimented and you have to hit your mark in, like, ten different metaphoric ways. Yeah. And I feel like from my comedy, that would feel stifling. Like, I feel like it would take away from the spontaneity. Yeah.

Precisely. That, like, I need, and it sounds like you that you need. I mean, even, like, you cursing is hilarious because it's like, it's actually kind of a great actor's impulse. Oh, my God. It is, uh, in a way, it's like, it's so me. Yeah, totally. To make such an embarrassing mistake. And, like, I hate getting in trouble.

Yeah. I would never, I don't, like, make moves, you know? I'm not like, um, I'm certainly not a believer in, like, all press is good press. Like I'm not interested in infamy, certainly not at that point. I like getting A's, you know. Like I was really feeling good about getting on the show. There's no need to juz it up with just like eating shit right away. You know, like, I don't know.

But also like, yeah, it is such a weird, in a way that it's very me that that happened. It's also so outrageous and so not me because I like to try to get things right on a larger scale. that like I don't really remember it happening at all. Yeah, yeah. And it was so scary and embarrassing that the only thing I remember at the end is like Seth hugging me and that I thought that was so nice

and Andy Sandberg like being really nice to me. But then kind of being like, wait, is this like a big deal? You know, because I had just, I literally had walked out of Williamsburg. I wasn't like a UCB person. Right. I had no like, I was obsessed with SNL

in the way that probably like Adam Sandler was growing up or something. Yeah. But I didn't do any of the stuff to get there that most people did. Right. I was like a major rando. Right. And then I fucked up.

So that's like crazy. Yeah. That is crazy. But then it ended up being, it ended up going so well for you. Well, this is what my astrology says. Do you go to an astrologer? Or you just read your astrology? I read it.

I listen to it every week. Like I have an app, the Chani app, which I very much love. I'm not like a person that won't sign a contract when Mercury's in retrograde. I'm like not super strict about it, but I do like it. I didn't even know people did that. Oh, yeah. Okay.

They definitely do. Wow. I mean, I'm not going to be like, can we sign this contract when it's Mercurgery in retrograde. Right. But if it is in retrograde and it's the only time to sign, it's like, what are we going to do? I'm fucking do this right now.

I'm not signing a lot of stuff. Doc, you sign. But anyway, my astrology says like, every like great like epiphany great success big love

something like that is sort of twinned with like a door that closes or like a darker doorway yeah so maybe that's happening to me

yeah I mean I think that's true well but I mean like you have one of those quintessential careers though where people go like, I want to have a Jenny Slate career. Did you think that? Yeah. Can I ask you something? Yeah, of course.

I mean, it's your podcast. You can cut it out. Because I think of you as someone that's like, you're really successful. You have your like, like, Broadway success too. And they're always like pictures of like, I actually don't know if I've seen this. But I imagine it's like Tom Hanks with you backstage at your show. You came to the last one. Yeah.

Oh, wow. And also, I have not used social media in like over three years. Oh. My assistant will post for things I ask her to post for me. Okay. But I've made like a concerted effort to just, I don't even peek in to not look. It's like, you're done. Good for you.

Yeah, I was like, oh, this is drugs. It makes me feel bad. Right. I'm out. But like, do you, do you ever feel like you're in the process of, you know, trying to like ascend or building or, you know, like you're not fully in the final zone? own you wish you would be in? And again, that is a question that maybe is too embarrassing to answer. No, no, I don't think it's embarrassing. I'm good with it. It's just so big of a question. I'm trying to break it apart. Like, I think I don't think there's any more ascension.

What do you mean? Like you're calling it? I think I'm calling it. You're going to have to tell Eugene Merman that we're not doing this? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Only three people came to your career. Exactly. Three people showed up to my career. We're going home. No, no, you know what it is? I feel like what happened was I started it out, and I was like, I want to be up there and ascend to whatever that is. And then I feel like I was high enough to see what that looks like for the people living it. Oh, yeah.

And then I was like doing my own stuff artistically at the same time and going, oh, I like this. So you're kind of talking about fame. Yeah, I guess so. Oh, and I was not. You're talking about life? Life ascendancy? I think what I was talking about was opportunity. Okay.

Yeah, like, I don't feel like, when you're like, oh, you had this career, people say they want a Jenny's late career, and I'm like, I audition, you know? Oh, right. Like, I would love to be. As opposed to being offered, like, the leads in movies and stuff. Yeah, and actually, I actually really like auditioning, and I sometimes, like, will be like, actually, can I? Let's just make sure you want this, you know, because it's,

I don't like that feeling. It was just announced that you're in a movie yesterday. Yes. Did you audition for that? No. No, okay. But when I got there, I was like... Not so fast, Jenny Slade.

Are you sure Chris Pine wants to be around? You know, like, I was like, oh, my God. You know, like, and then I had to, like, ask him. What? Well, I don't... Look, it's not the best way to be. I'm not... I don't like how I am.

That's very funny. But it's like, so no, I didn't have to audition for that. Do you call him? Did what? Did you call him? Like, today? No, no. Oh.

To ask him whether he wanted you. That's so funny. I mean, yeah. So you were just like, hey, are you good with this? Me being like in a romantic comedy with you kind of thing? It is not a romantic comedy. If that's what you think it is, you're going to be a little bit sad. Okay, okay, sad, okay.

But, no, I think I'm more, it was like part of a more unfolding conversation. Okay. Yeah, where it was like, well, You know, I don't know. It's like revealing your insecurities. Totally. And like kind of having to check. But it's not like a fishing thing.

It's more like I think for me in terms of the ascent or whatever. It's like I would just, I feel like I still have to like prove myself. Wow. And that maybe is a good thing. And might be only in my head. But like I think in a time when I mostly function as an actor, I guess. And it doesn't feel like it's the easiest time in the industry. Yeah.

It's like I think my goal is to be at a place where it just doesn't seem like so hard. Right. But maybe I'm making it hard on myself, but also I don't think so. But I think the thing that I'm speaking to is like, well, obviously, like, first of all, like, you and obvious child is a great example of, like, you playing a character. But it's in some ways a variation on the type of comedy you do. Right. You really, like, owned it in this way that it's kind of an iconic film. Like, people are like, that's, you know, one of those great, great indie films.

And then the other one is Marcel the Shell with Shoes on, like, is a great example of, like, it's so personal. It's so personal. Yeah. I mean, you and Dean created a thing that is, like, really, like, alt comedy. And then it became like a mainstream movie. Yeah. So in some ways, like that's what I'm speaking to. It's like that you did these things where people go, you can do that?

Yeah. Like that's crazy. I think a lot of people, especially a lot of artists, even a lot of fields, go like, how come I can't take my indie art thing that I love and this small group of people like loves? Yeah. They're like, that's my thing. And then how come I can't take that and make that the thing that I go out with? Yeah.

And like you did that. That's true. Moment of silence for that. Room tone? Room tone? I just, yes, and I think that's, and it's not that I'm not. I love that movie and Dean and our work that we did together. But I think also it's like I really am job to job in a good way.

Like I don't take much from the stuff that happens after the job is over. I like a photo shoot, you know, like, I think that's, like, fun to get dressed up. Okay. In, like, a big weird dress or something. Sure. But once the job is over, I just get hungry again to perform. Right. That said, I'm, like, not a workaholic, and I'm very fine making, like, one movie a year, or, like, the year that I made Dying for Sex, which I think is the last time I saw you.

Yes. Like, I made two things that year, and I was, like, I can't work any more than this. Right. You know, like, I'm not. I'm not a workaholic, but I do want to, after you're done performing, and you're a performer, and you love it, you're like, when do I go again? Yeah. You know, it's like just being on a water slide, it's like, can I go again? Can I just go again? Now that you're in New York, I'm going to just try to convince you to stand up all the time.

I think I want to do it again. Do you feel like you could do Big Terrific again, or are you done with it? Oh, no. I feel like we could do it again. Yeah. I feel like now that we have our podcast that, you know, like my dream is like we tore around with that and it kind of is like a new version of it. Totally. Yeah.

I mean. People would love that. God, it would be people meaning definitely me at least. One person. Yeah, you'd love it. I wouldn't love it. I think everyone would love it. Yeah.

And I miss Max and Gabe. They don't live here. Right. But I think, yeah. I mean, you know, my daughter's almost five. Like, there is a feeling in me now that what I'm. talk about on stage needs to be thoughtfully sorted. Yeah.

Not like I'm not going to say like, clit or whatever. But it's like I don't want to talk about her. I don't want to, I don't, she genuinely can't say yes or no about it and I don't think that's fair. Mm-hmm. But there's still, it turns out, there's a lot to talk about. There's a lot to talk about outside of her. Yeah, I had that recently where when Una turned.

my daughter turned 10. Mm-hmm. I'm not going to talk about her anymore because it's, I think at a certain point, when they get to a certain age, it stops becoming general what any kid would say. Uh-huh. And it starts to become very specifically what that person's saying. Yeah. And then like you're saying it.

Like as opposed to like when I was doing like the new one, for example, like, well, yeah, that could be any baby. Right. Literally any baby can say that or whatever. Yeah. Do you think you'll show her, Marcel, the show her. Yeah, I have showed her a little bit of it. She's kind of young, though.

Yeah, yeah. You know, like, she's like, well, what are they doing? Right. It's an interesting mashup of, like, it is for grown-ups. It's for grown-ups, yeah. And it's for kids. Like, it's a little bit in that kind of Pixar space of, like, it's very sophisticated. Yeah.

It's like, it depends on the kid, too, like, when she was two, we tried to, like, she hadn't watched anything yet. And then we all got COVID. And I was like, maybe I should show her Marcel the Shell, but I just felt too weird about it. Yeah. So I showed her the like Winnie the Pooh from the 70s. Yeah. That's cute. Yeah. But I think eventually she'll she'll like it. With Marcel de Shell, I was rewatching it this morning. And what stuck out to me is like, it's so funny. And then it's like, unafraid of being sad. Yeah. And it's like, I think my favorite thing about it. I'm glad you think that because I guess that's, like, I don't want to be sad. I don't want to do anything to make myself sad, and I certainly don't want to do that

kind of, like, grad school short story. Like, I wrote a story about something really upsetting so that the story can be serious and good, like, like, just kind of not that, that thing. Darkness to seem legit. But, like, there is something about being sad, essentially, like, not being acceptable, just like sort of baseline sorrow. I agree. That makes me feel scared. And I mean, I also now like take an antidepressant which has really changed my world,

but like went through a lot of years of like, why am I always as a friendly person who likes to have fun? And like likes romance and chilling out. Why am I so sad? Yeah. Like so sad. Yeah. And it just felt like if I couldn't try to talk about that or get into it a bit, it really was as if I was like lonely for that part of myself that couldn't be included.

Which made it worse. Yeah, a lot of times that's my favorite kind of comedy because it acknowledges in the silliness that also their sadness. Oh my God. Like my favorite things to watch when I was little, now I realize how much, like, kinship or support I felt from like, I mean, even Pee-wee weirdly feels sad to me. Like, when Pee-Wee-Wing his bike, it actually is really fucking sad.

I love Pee-Wi. Pee-wee is the best. Or, like, you know, Peter Sellers to me is like, there's so much sorrow. Yeah. In there, there's so much sorrow. And, of course, Chaplin. Chaplin.

So much in like Harpo Marx, there's so much just delicate, weird, twinkly sorrow. And like Mr. Hulow's holiday, like the Jacques Tati movie, my dad showed it to me as a little girl. And I remember making fun of him so much and being like, this is so boring. And then watching it as an adult with Dean and watching all the other Tati movies and being like, this means so much to me. It's the most important thing. And Gilda Radner was like a little bit sad. Oh, yeah. In her happiness and her jumping around, there was like something about,

and a lot of it, I guess you could just see in her body. Yeah, I think like the best performers are like letting you in. Yeah. They don't have to be sad. That's right. Yeah. But it's just like there's like an openness. Yeah.

It was like Jody Foster once said they said, they said, why are you private about your personal life or whatever? And she was like, it's all in the rules. Yeah. And I think it's true. Mm-hmm. She's like, it's all in these roles. Yeah.

It's all out there. Totally. It's just like represented differently. Yeah. Yeah. It's costumed or whatever performed. Yeah. So when you, in Marcel, what part of you in real life has Marcel elements and what part

it doesn't? Um, I think Marcell. Marcel is like way more succinct than I am. Yeah. I think I'm like painfully long-winded no matter what. Like I was just recording a new cartoon and they're like, okay. Like, you know, we do the line and like just like say a little bit more. Yeah.

And like the riff was like five minutes. You know, it's like they can't use this. It's just too long. Yeah. It's just unwound too much. But I think like at the end of the Marcel movie, the last monologue where he's like talking. about needing space but not wanting to be totally far away from other people and liking the sound of himself connected to everything.

That is like an improvised bit that I had said at another time that eventually went there, I believe. And that to me feels like my kind of central state and ethos and also why I love living in Brooklyn again is like you can be with other people. you can be a true introvert extrovert combo and get it all and you know there's that and then also like Marcel is really when he says like I don't want to just survive

like I want to have a good life like I am really that I seem to have in spite of all of the things that can get me down an inexhaustible appetite for life's small beauties and for creating little playful games to make things that would be boring

just out of like autopilot, like this is boring. Like the last piece actually in my book that came out last year, Life Form, is called The Graduation Speech. And it's about why it's so important to like play games in your daily life. Yeah. And a lot of the way that Marcel gets through

his state of being, left abandonment is by making a game out of things that would be tasks. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like that. Oh. There's a Marcel line. He goes, guess why I smile a lot?

Because it's worth it. Yeah. That's beautiful. Yeah. It's a big deal. It's true. Did you play on the set of that? Like, was it just like, what about this?

What about this? What about this? On the movie? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we had like a very heavy treatment. and then some scenes would be like written out.

It was just so much improv. And then Dean and our co-writer Nick Paley would like listen to the audio. Sometimes they would be able to put a scene together with audio that was there. And then they would be like, well, we were really getting to something. Or like the plot of the movie actually needs to change now that we see this. And then they would like write a scene. Right.

And then we would record and improvise again. So it was like a really big... Like a work in progress. Yeah. Like always. Yeah. Yeah. But also it was like, you know, during that, like, Dean and I were getting divorced.

And we were recording. In the middle of that. At the start, we told our, like, Cinerich, the people who gave us the, who funded the film. I think we told them that we were getting separated, like, right after we signed the deal to do the movie with them. So we hadn't even started recording yet. Wow. And we were recording in the house that we used to live in. And there are parts of the movie where, like, Michelle, Michelle, where Michelle, Michelle, Michelle, Michelle, Michelle, Michelle, which is, you know, what the movie's called.

Where Marcel, even I, there's also a joke about Marcel being like, oh, like, I mess it up too. Like, I mess up, he's like, I can't believe I just did that. Yeah. I do that, yeah. But where he's, like, talking about, I think, like, what happens. happened when his family got moved in the suitcase and he's like crying and you hear Dean say like this is the last thing we'll do today. Yeah.

And it's just and I wouldn't break character anyway, like unless we were like eating lunch. Yeah. I would just be like, not like in a method way, but like we were just always recording and we had the microphones taped to our heads literally on like a little sweatband and like I would just like be like this. I was just like talking and like hang out. Like you just like ask me whatever you want. And I would just like kind of stay in the state of mind

and just like hang out and just whatever might come up. And it was like that. And then, but you can hear him be like, this is the last thing we'll do today. And you can hear me as me as Marcel be like, you know, like it just, I don't know. It was a really weird thing that we did to do that. But it, I think, allowed us to be the people who like yesterday,

I was like, hey, do you want to have lunch? you know that's what someone wiser than me once said that but that's the difference between film and television is that television is serialized so it's like a chemistry experiment and and film is like a biology experiment because it only happens once right it's like that's an example of like that's in there yes like your personal relationship and your collaboration it's all in there and the movie is like I mean not to be like such a douche but like it is an organic form that happened in those conditions and I think we were even planning on kind of a slightly different movie. And yeah, I mean, it all fed into that and it didn't, even the parts that hurt or were painful were not, they were not dead weight.

Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. It's cool. Emotional stuff. You did a graduation speech. Is this true for one person? I did.

How did that even happen? They asked me, and I said yes. They say it was one person? Yeah, because it was... So, Cuddyhunk Island is like the smallest, I believe, of the Elizabeth Islands, like the islands that are, you know, the famous ones, like Martha's Vineyard, where my parents live, Nantucket, and then there's all these, like, other little ones. And Cuddyhunk is one of them, maybe not the smallest, but either way. And they had a one-room schoolhouse, and their very last... student was graduating from it.

And there weren't any more kids on the island. Oh, gosh. And, yeah, her name was Gwen. And I spent, like, an afternoon walking around with her getting to know her. Yeah. And then I gave a graduation speech just to her. My gosh. I mean, her family came and the Islanders and my husband.

And I think my in-laws came. What did it feel like? It felt exactly like giving a speech to a big class. Yeah. Except that like, because a lot of it is like, at least for me, and I think for many people, if you've, like, given a graduation speech before, and weirdly I've done it like a couple times now, you've got to get past the like, who the fuck am I to be telling these kids what they should do? Like, I am really not the one, you know?

And like I kind of resent having to do it. Yeah, for sure. But it's like, look, I don't, I'm not sure that I have this for you. Yeah. But then the other side of it is like this exciting thing that I felt the first time that I gave a graduation speech. And I felt it again, just like, it's so beautiful out there. Yeah. And actually, I am the one to tell you about it because I feel it in a really specific way.

And my advice to you is like find out what your receptors are for like feeling and feeling what you like about life. Like it's, you know, whatever. But I liked that I could tailor it to her and give her like specific compliments. Yeah. And that I could give her like a big, big send-off. That's really great wisdom. It was really fun.

Figure out what your receptors are. Yeah. Because actually once I did, my life got a lot easier. It's so crucial. Yeah. You've got to figure out what you enjoy. Yeah. Yeah.

I know, like, well, especially, you know, that thing that you said before about, like, if you've seen anyone that is, let's say, like, unfortunately, like, really hampered, limited or maybe, like, sort of incarcerated by fame. Like, they can't go to the grocery store and they want to, you know, like, everyone has different experiences with it. But, like, if you see something that you're like, oh, I actually don't want that, you know, like, or I don't want to play one role. I don't want to be Urkel or whatever. Like, I don't want to play one role forever

so I can't do anything else. Right. Those kinds of things. Like, you can start to know like, oh, okay, I think I know what I want in terms of like that thing. But then there's another thing that happened like when we made Marcel the shell, which was like I've been looking at something out of the side of my eye sort of assuming that it couldn't ever be in the center. And I've never looked at it hard enough to understand what it is. but like I like helping people feel both like as if I just threw open a window.

So like a dose of freshness, but that they're comfortable, but without being like sappy about it. Like I like nice pretty stuff. Yeah. And I'm not like a Geico commercial. I'm not like sassy. I'm not like sarcastic and I'm not dry. Yeah. And like I like it in like, um,

Remember 3-21 contact on PBS? Like when a flower blooms in fast motion and it looks a little shaky. Like I like that kind of stuff. Yeah. I like that kind of stuff. And I'm supposed to be finding that. Like in my daily life, I'm supposed to be finding it. And in my comedy, I'm supposed to be finding it.

It's not like a gross, like mandate, you know, like a cult leader thing. It's more like, this is my appetite. it's totally consistent in my private life, my private moments, and in my larger, like, work. And once I figured that out, I was like, oh, I don't have to try to be on, like, three and a half men. Yeah.

I don't have to have that goal. I believe that show is called two and a half men. Two and a half men. What's the other one with the three guys? They're dorks? What's it called? Bazinga? You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah. Big Bang theory. That one. Three and a half. I mean, clearly. Bang theory. I don't have to be on two and a half-meet. What did I say?

The Big Bang? You're talking about all my favorite shows. You're trashing all my favorite shows. Oh my God. I'm not even trashing them. I just mean, I was like, I never felt like normal enough to like be on those shows. No, I get it. You know?

No, I mean, the thing that you're saying, I think, is really. I hope that didn't come off as like being shitty to that. What are you talking about? You know? They're off the year. They all did a great job. Well, what you're saying, though, it's really hitting me hard. That thing of like, wanting to be. understand your receptors and then be open to, you know, new things and seeing and having

the wonderment about all the things. Yeah. For me, the worst is when I know that and I can't do it. What is that like? Like, what's an example of that? Like literally feeling like walking around dropping my daughter off at school or something like that. And then being like, I just don't feel like I can take in the wonder of the world. and I fucking know that I should.

I know that's the answer and I can't do it. Yeah, I mean, for me, that's when I think when I can tell that, like, there is, like, depression happening in me. Because it's not like I'm walking around being like, there's a bee, there's a, you know, like, I'm not like an alien. Yes, you are. I've seen you. Like, I mean, I will say a couple days ago I, like, caught myself, like, staring at, like, What are those things, you know, like, it's like a machine.

Like a prize grabber machine at an arcade? No, like a... Oh, like a forklift. Yeah, but it has the big scooper. Okay. Yeah, yeah, but like at a construction sky. Excavator, sure, yeah. And I just was like, fuck, yeah, man.

And it was like not on. Like nobody was operating. Yeah, even just existing at all. Yeah, and then I was like, oh, I've looked at it a bit too long. You know, like if anybody saw me doing this, they would be like, what the hell? You know, like, oh, what are you doing? Looking at that. Right.

But then, but then. Meanwhile, you're doing it right. I was doing it right. And then I went to the Montiqid diner, and I broke my gluten-free lifestyle. And I had a beer and a side of french fries by myself. And I listened to two old ladies behind me in the booth. The best. Talking about their sunglasses.

Oh, overhards are the best. Oh, my God. Can I just tell you one thing I heard? Please. Okay. It's much better, by the way, than television or movies. Oh, my God. They're so old.

And they know they are. It's not me being like, they're old. It's like they were old. They were very elderly. They were in their 80s. 100, 200 years old. Right, they were like 300 years old. They come in, they're like, I'll have scrambled eggs.

The other one's like, scramble eggs as well in an iced coffee. And they don't get anything else. I'm like, you guys are going to blow out your stomach lining. Like, what the fuck? You're so old. You better have some bread, girls. But anyway, they didn't. Then they're like talking.

They were literally talking about the senior citizen center. And they're like, you know what I love, the improvved classes. And I'm like, the improvved classes. I'm like, I am like tightening up. Like I was like, it's like the emotional version of like getting hard or something. Like I was like, oh, like I love that they're doing this right now. I was like standing on end, listening to them. This lady's like, oh, well, I know why you like the class because you love, because Stanley's your guy.

And then there's a weird silence. And the same lady goes. I know he's been to your apartment. Oh, my gosh. That's good. That's good, tea. It was like, you know, have you seen the episode of Seinfeld where Jerry tells George, like, maybe what Elaine said during sex? And George squeezes the ketchup and it, like, ejaculates.

He's like, and it, like, and then he looks. It's like the best acting in the world. That's what, like, when I heard, I know he's been to your apartment. I was like, I'm dead. I loved it. But anyway, I was like, oh, I guess I do do what maybe you might think I do. Sure. You know, I'm like, I'm like doing my life.

Yeah. But when I am in a more kind of like, she's down, she's down folks. Yeah. Moment, which is not great. One thing I notice is that I understand what is so beautiful and what are normal beauties that are there and I can see my separation from them and that I have no receptor. Yeah. And it compounds the feeling of isolation, and I feel scared. Yeah.

And I have a deep sense of, like, what's wrong. Something's wrong. Yeah. Yeah, it's like the difference between, like, you know, being like, watermelon is so beautiful, and then being like, watermelon is stupid. Yeah. It's like the same fucking watermel. Get that fucking fruit out of here, man.

I don't even know why it's here. It's a mess. This is a mess. Why is everything a mess? With seeds, forget it. Same thing. We went to an apple orchard last weekend with my daughter. It's like, this is the most beautiful thing I could possibly behold.

And then later in the day, I'm like, I'm tired. This sucks. Yeah, yeah. It's all the sides of the same thing. Yeah. This is a slow round. Okay. What are people's favorite and least favorite thing about you?

In my life? Yeah. I would say, like, my husband's favorite. thing about me is that I always want to talk about like what's happening, like what's happening here. And I would also say that's his least favorite thing about me as well. Yeah. Yeah. I have some similarity on that. Yeah. Yeah. Who are you jealous of? I'm jealous of, I guess I'm jealous of, God, what an ugly word. The follow question is, who are you jealous of that you didn't say but you thought of?

Yeah, like, I'm, like, jealous of, like, Tilda Swinton. Sure. You know, because it's like, I don't wish her. Like, I don't wish her ill. No one wishes her ill. No one wishes her. I want her to live for a million years. I just think, it seems like she fucking figured it out.

The body of work stands for itself. Yeah. The Tilda Swinton canon. Yeah. is gold. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I get it.

She seems like she's doing it. And I want to do my version of what she does, whatever that is. Tilda, if you're listening, we want you here. Let me know what I should do. Let us know. Let us know what we can do. Like, I just, I heard her on, like, an interview where they were asking her, like, the most intense questions. Like, kind of about, like, political things and stuff. Like, she had no fear.

She was so, she just had all this, she just did everything. She said everything. Do you remember time you were caught in a lie? Oh, God. Yeah. In fifth grade, I read Roald Dahl's autobiography. Oh. And he faked in appendicitis.

Oh. And I did that. Oh, really? And I was like, oh. Did you get the idea from the Roll Dahl book? Uh-huh. Wow. My mom took me to the doctor, and I knew just what to say.

I just wanted attention. Yeah. But it got taken too far, and they took me to the hospital, and they gave me a series of, like, very aggressive enemas. Oh, my gosh. And I was like, I was lying, I'm lying. But it was too late. Wow.

Talk about a high-stakes lie. Exactly. My God. And they're like, we can't figure out what's wrong with her. It's not her appendix. And I was like, I was lying! And so I wasn't even really caught in a lie. I just got taught my lesson.

With friends and family, what topic do you worry that you talk about? about too much. That's a new one. I worry that I tell my parents too often that they need to go to therapy. That's great. And they never go. No.

They don't go. They're like in their 70s. Yeah. They're not going to change. And I'm not saying in that sort of reality TV way, like you need therapy. Like it's not like that. I don't watch a lot of reality TV,

but I remember that being a thing. Everybody should go. The way they should go to the dentist. That's what I think. Not everyone has the means or the time. But like it's not an insult. No, it's not an insult. You're hysterical, you're mental.

It's like, hey, you seem to be grieving. Yeah. Maybe you should talk to someone. What do you daydream about? Sometimes I have a really specific daydream that I've been cast in a movie where I get to sing like a pretty song and that I'm singing it at the table read

and everybody realizes that I'm like a lot better than they thought. It's really funny. Do you have anything in your notebook? What do you call it? You call it like bips and bops or something? Well, that's on my computer. It's problems. Well, no, I have scraps.

Scraps. Scraps. Scraps. And then fragments and problems, I think. Are you open to sharing any scraps or fragments and problems today on the show? I have one thing. And I just, I can never make it work. I always feel like I come off really mean on stage when I do it.

So basically, like, I was just trying to, or maybe, I just old and people don't think what I'm saying is funny, which is like a terrible, you know, it might be, you know, a comedian in your 40s, you don't know. But anyway, it's that like how weird it is that you're, that like, my husband's not doing this, you know, so also he gets implicated. The whole thing doesn't work. But anyway, let's say, it's weird that my husband can look at like a picture on Instagram of like his friend's cousin in her bathing suit. Right. Because if he came into the bedroom and I had like a shoebox of physical photos and I was looking at like the cousin of his friend Nick or something.

And he's like, what are you doing? And I was like, I'm looking at a picture of this guy, Neil, in his bathing suit. He'd be like, why? Why are you? Why do you even have that picture? And so like it's this like weird world where it's like, what are we all doing? You know, like, is anyone keeping tabs on what we're doing? And I know it's, you know, really been exacerbated. But then there's the other thing of like when, you know, he, again, imagine it's, he hasn't done this, but whatever. It's my fear of fantasy.

Like, he posts a picture of spaghetti and meatballs. And one of his ex-lovers, like, hearts that likes the picture. And it's like, at best, she's like, I like your spaghetti. Right? And at worst, she likes it. And it's like, remember when I came? Totally. Remember when I was riding you?

Like, my tithes are bouncing up and down and I came. Yeah, yeah. That, like eight years ago. You know, it's like, why are you fucking talking about his spaghetti? Right. But, A, that doesn't really represent my personality anymore. Right. Like, I kind of feel like, I just like don't care.

Right. But I really like that bit. No, it's funny. But it's not really my style. Maybe that's why I can't do it. I think it's your style in the sense of like, it's a very true observation about the odd sort of like voyeuristic, like role that we allowed ourselves to slip into.

Yeah. It's so strange. Yeah. I think about that a lot. Like that you can know what so many, like I haven't seen most of my male friends with their shirts off, for example. Right. And now you can zoom into them.

Comedians aren't, yeah, like pizza partying at the, like at the, like, cool or whatever. Like, I don't feel like it's happened. In fact, someone asked Gabe Leidman, like, or Max, one of us, like, what is the key to having a 20-year, like, best friendship? And one of them said, don't see each other in your bathing suits more than twice a year. Yeah. And it's like, I think that's actually fair.

Yeah. But now I'm like, I actually know what a lot of people's, like, nips look like. Right. And that's kind of weird. It is weird. I'm not comfortable with it, but I don't know. It's almost like the, it's almost like the era of mystique gone. Yeah.

It's like no mystique. Yeah. And nothing, also like just nothing feels inaccessible. Yeah. Everything feels like, yeah, what does that person's stomach look like? Let me find a photo. Totally. It's so weird.

I don't think we should have it, but I'm not saying anything new. No, I know what you mean. But what's funny is with you, because you're not on social media, you are putting your money where your mouth is in terms of like making a point. that like I don't go down this rabbit hole. Well, it is true. I don't. Yeah. And like that was one of the last things that I thought of before I was like, I don't want to do this anymore. Is that why?

Because you were in that rabbit hall and you were like... Oh, no. It just made me feel bad in all the ways that everybody feels bad. You're not doing a good enough job. You're not... You're ugly. Everyone hates you. Everyone likes you.

Right. How are you going to... What is it? Like, it's... I felt the pull of it. It felt like the... the ring, the gollum ring. Yeah.

I feel like you could do something, do a bit where you, like, are arrived. I mean, this is not, like, the funniest part, but it's, like, narrative-wise, like, how you arrived at being off of it. Actually, that's... Because you actually are off of it. That's really the key. Yeah. I'm just going to have to try to remember something funny that happened and not just, like, all the sad stuff. Also, like, leaning into the act-outs of the photos and all that.

Oh, that's really good. It would be good just because, like, when I watch your stand- This is good, right? It's fun. Well, because, like, whenever I watch your stand-up, I'm always like, if I worked with Jenny, I would just be like, everything you're doing that's weird, I would fucking lean into it a thousand percent. You know what I mean?

Whenever you're doing your sound effects or your actouts and you're just like non-sequiters and, like, I'm always like, do, just keep going. Oh, I feel like I'm so leaned into. to it that I'm lying down basically. It's rock and roll. It's so good. Oh, thank you. So I would just like, I wouldn't give up on the bit you're saying.

I would do it, but I would explore the actouts of the photos, of the videos, of the whatever. Because I think, like, you have a superpower in that, that I don't have, that 99% of people in comics do not have, which is you're an amazing actor and your amazing improviser. So, like, if you live everything that you're saying, if you're passionate about the thing you're saying, it's going to pop hard. I'm pulling my mind right now. That's, I genuinely, like, have been like,

I'm not going to do stand-up again. I think I'm done. You have to do stand-up again. No, you're great. Cool. Okay. Cool. Do you have any other bits that you're, like,

that are half premises, half ideas? No, no, no, I want to hear yours. I think I've taken too much time. This is not. I'm sorry, I hate myself. This is one that has a front but doesn't have a back, which is like I was on a subway platform with my daughter, and she just turned 10. And she goes, sometimes I don't feel 10. And I go, sometimes I don't feel 47.

And she goes, I don't even think of 47 as an age. I just think of it as a number I use in math class. And I wanted to just jump right in front of the train. but then I thought that would feel too causal. Yeah, right. I actually swore that I would not tell that joke publicly, but I do think it is kind of funny. It's really funny.

But I also don't know where to go with it. But it is an odd thing when your child can't even conceptualize your age. Yeah. Because you know where I would go with it? Yeah, where would you go? It's like all the ages, and maybe you're just not like this, But, like, there were a bunch of ages, numbers that I could know what that is. You know what I mean?

Like, you say 17 to me. I'm like, you are drinking a fountain soda. You have a boyfriend. You know, you're, you have the windows down. It's a summer night. And you're just so cool. 100%. 95.

I'm like, you can't. Right. I know, you know. Right. And then even like, it's like, yeah, 23 year old, but I kind of get you. Yeah. You're coming home. You're like, hey, dad, they're like, oh, welcome back.

Look at this guy. You know, like you can see that person, but it is, that's where I would go with it. It's like, what is 47? Yeah. Like, you know, because it is. It's also, is it a prime number? It's just a super problem at a number. Yeah, I think it is prime number.

Yeah. I don't know. No, that's good. She's like, I can, yeah, I can only, I only see it as a number that is divisible by itself. Yeah. I don't know. I'm trying to think of prime number, prime number trivia. I think that's actually kind of it.

It is, right? Yeah, yeah. They do one thing. I wrote this also, which is your age sneaks up on you. I'm hitting that age where I'm like, I guess I'm never going to go to China for sure. You know what I mean? I think I'm not going to hit North Korea. I don't even think parts of Alabama are going to be on the list.

Yeah, I mean. That's what I'm hitting, though, with my age for real, where I'm like, not China necessarily, but like, there's certain place where I'm like, I don't think that's on the list. Yeah, you're not, yeah. I don't think I'm going to hit it. Yeah. I might go to Greece. You might. Maybe.

Maybe I might. Also, why not? Have you ever been there? Nope. Me neither. Yeah. And you know what else is like that for me is like, it was already a slim chance that I would ski. And now it's like, skiing is a good one.

Absolutely not. I'm out. You know, snowboarding, no one ever thought that was going to happen for me. That's right. Weirdly, I water skied, but that's because of camp. But like skiing, it's like, oh, I'll never, I'll probably never dribble a basketball again. Why would I? Totally.

You know, I only did that because they made me in school. No, you're right. Yeah. You know what? I think where that bit goes if I end up doing it is like you're saying essentially like going into a list. The list. The list is so fun. Just the list of things. I'm just not going to do. Yeah. Yeah. And then you can really throw in some fun ones that are like weirdly almost boring. Yeah.

But they were just already boring. So you're definitely not going to do it now because it's too boring. I'm like obsessed with things that are boring. That actually makes me think of the bit that I've been doing this on stage recently, which is like, When you're with someone a long time, you can say so much with so few words. Like I said, my friend was like, I want to go skydiving for my birthday. I want you to come. And I relayed this conversation to my wife. And she said, you're going to do that?

And that's when I realized I wasn't going to do that. Yeah, yeah. I was like, no way. That is perfect. No way. Why would I want to do an activity that seems so dangerous yet so fun? Oh, my God. When we were in Cleveland, someone said to me,

we're going to go to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame on our day off Do you want to go? Yeah. And I genuinely, without any hesitation or trying to be funny about it, was like, I can't do that because I don't want to. Yeah.

You know, like, what am I going to do? Like, see a guitar in a case? Right. It's not, no one's like playing, there's not a concert there, which, by the way, I don't want to go to anyway because I don't like going to concerts. Good on you.

Yeah. For the honesty on that one. Yeah. That's strong. Yeah. I can't do that because I don't. I can't do that because I don't want to. I can't do that because I don't want to.

I can do that because I don't want to. It should be a fucking t-shirt. All right, the last thing we do on the show is called working it out for a cause. Is there a nonprofit that you like to contribute to because what we will do is contribute to them, link to them in the show notes and encourage others to contribute? Yeah, I thought about this and I was like, okay, what should I do? Like, should I ask my older sister works at Dana Farber Cancer Institute and has been working there for like, I think, 20 years now. Wow.

And she's cared for so many people. And I was like, okay, maybe I should ask her. Maybe I should ask this. And then all of a sudden I was like, uh, NPR, man. Oh, yeah, that's a good one. Like, I just, this is, uh, I think they're on like week, what, two or three maybe without federal funding. Yeah. I contribute to my local NPR station here, WNYC.

I contribute to what used to be KPCC in LA, the LAist. I contribute to WGBBH in Boston. and KCRW as well in L.A. And I really, I just, I genuinely fear for the world without public media. And I feel that it's excellent journalism. And that's where I'm at. I think that's such a great idea. National Public Radio, baby.

That is such a great idea. We will contribute to NPR. We will link to them in the show notes. And thank you, Jenny Slate for coming. This is such a joy. I loved this. Thank you for having me. So fun. This was so fun and useful.

And now we're neighbors and we can talk about jokes all the time. Yeah. That's really, this is really nice. Thank you. Working it out because it's not done. That's going to do it for another episode of working it out. You can follow Jenny Slate on Instagram at Jenny Slate. Listen to I need you guys every Thursday on the Serious XM app or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can watch the full video of this episode on our YouTube. channel at Mike Berbiglia. This is a really good visual one today. Especially when she does Marcel de Shell voice, and I did not see that coming. See my face being astonished. She goes into this iconic voice. We are putting more and more videos on the YouTube channel.

If you don't mind, click subscribe. You will get more and more content that we are posting. Check out berbiggs.com and sign up for the mailing list. We are going to be doing another J. Hope Stein jokes and poems. at Joe's Pub coming soon. We're going to announce that on my mailing list. So sign up at Burrbigs.com. We'll be the first to know.

Our producers of working out are myself along with Peter Salomon, Joseph, Perbiglia, Mabel Lewis, and Gary Simons. Sound mixed by Ben Cruz, supervising engineer, Kate Balinski. Special thanks to Jack Anzenoff and bleachers for their music. Special thanks, as always, to my wife,

the poet, J. Hope Stein, and our daughter, Una, who built the original Radio Fort made of pillows. Thanks most of all to you are listening. If you enjoy the show, rate us and review us on Apple Podcasts. I saw today. Someone wrote a really nice review of our premium episode where we work out, listeners, jokes. Check those all out. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. Tell your friends, tell your enemies.

Tell the two senior citizens you just overheard gossiping at the diner in the booth behind you. Don't be shy. Pop, you're heading that booth as they're discussing senior center romances and say, hey, if you're taking improv classes, you might enjoy this podcast, all working it out. Mike Brubigley is an improviser, and he talks to other comedians and improvisers and creatives about the creative process. You can listen to it with Stanley back at your apartment. Thanks, everybody. We're working it out. We'll see you next time.