Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - Josh Johnson: Reinventing the Modern Comedy Special

Episode Date: December 29, 2025

Best of WIO: Josh Johsnon(Recorded March 2025) Comedian Josh Johnson is a writer and correspondent for The Daily Show and his stand-up sets have millions of views on YouTube. Josh talks with Mike about cultivating a fan base via the YouTube videos, why he thinks chasing success in the comedy industry is sometimes antithetical to the art form, and shares the advice he got from Trevor Noah. Plus, Josh helps Mike work out a new story about animals living in Mike's walls.Please consider donating to Feeding America Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You have this joke about how, where you say COVID killed millions of people, but somehow everyone I owed money to lived. Oh, yeah. Who do you owe money to? We've settled the deaths now. Okay. We're in a much better place. But at the time of taping, I was like, man.

Happy holidays, everybody. It's Mike Barbiglia, and that is the voice of the great Josh Johnson. This is a re-air of one-one. favorite episodes from this year. It's with Josh Johnson. One of the people who had kind of a seminal career year. I mean, he exploded this year. I mean, he went from being an extremely popular touring comedian to being one of the hosts of the Daily Show. He puts out these regular specials on YouTube, on his YouTube channel. They're seen by millions and millions, sometimes tens of millions of people, and they're fantastic. He's a true, true original. Thanks to everybody this

year who signed up for Working It Out Premium. We're about to drop another bonus episode that was really fun with my wife, Jenny. There's more bonus content coming. Thanks everyone who signed up for the text message alerts. We're announcing some small club shows in Philadelphia, Palm Beach, Madison, Wisconsin, Buffalo, Raleigh, Los Angeles, and Nashville, to be the first to know text Burbig's B-I-R-B-I-G-S to the phone number 9-17-44-7-1-5-0 to be the first to know about those shows. I will be appearing in the Broadway show All-Out, January 13 through 18, alongside Beck Bennett, Sessly Strong, and Wayne Brady. All-Out is the follow-up to All In. It's a great show. I just saw the opening night with John Stewart, Eric Andre, Abby Jacobson, as well as Ike

Baron Holtz. It was a blast. Tickets at all-outbroadway.com. This is a great conversation with Josh Johnson. This is, you know, we re-air the episodes that we feel like people will want to listen to again, that there's a lot of layers to peel back on. And just people who are great at the show, you know, a couple hundred thousand people watch this on YouTube. And a lot of times you've seen the comments, people are like, oh, he is amazing. Josh Johnson's amazing at punching up jokes on the fly like he he's exactly the type of comedian that this podcast was created for at our best comedians are collaborative and we throw things around and arrive at something better than we did at the beginning of the conversation so i think you're going to love

it we'll see you in 2026 we have some great guests coming up some great bonus episodes in the meantime enjoying my conversation with the great josh Johnson. The thing that I find so astounding about your career is that it's like a thing we talk about on this show all the time. Like we get all these questions. How do you start and, you know, how do you break in and all this stuff? And I think you're a quintessential example of you started.

and you finished. It's like you figured out how to create an act and 20 minutes and an hour and then also you filmed it and also you released it. You basically cut out every middleman

that there is in show business. And there's only a few people who've done that. Like I remember talking to Alana and Abby from Broad City and like it there's a few people who've done it and that's kind of it.

I'm just curious like how did you start doing that? I had always been writing a lot, and then a good friend of mine was like you should do topical stuff since you already write so much stuff, because I think he had told me that he hadn't seen me do the same set, and he had seen me like eight or ten times in the course of like a couple months, but it was always like, you know, some of them were mics and some of them were shows. So it's like, yeah, I've always written a lot and I've always like tried to think a thing out quickly and then write it out quickly and stuff. But then applying it to Topical was the first time that I was like, oh, yeah, there will be finally

a place for all this stuff to go. Right. Because what I had been doing before I started posting it online was just sort of like doing the joke for a week or a month and then just like moving on outside of my opener and closer. So like opener and closure would stay the same because they were my favorite two jokes. Yeah.

And then everything else would just like move around from there. And so then when we decided to start putting it out, I was just going up at the seller and then the seller's kind enough to like tape the set and then give it to you. So then I was like, I was just taking that tape. And then the only real pressure was that because the seller's taking the tape of your performance and giving it to you, I really had to just like get it. in one. Yes, that's right. And so then getting it in one became what felt like the real like

free-flowing conscious joke to joke to joke to joke to story to joke. And then once I started booking some more dates on the road, because I had started doing this during the writer's strike. So I wasn't like working at Daily Show at the time and I wasn't on the road as much because things were like fine but not great. And then when I finally started getting some bookings, I was like, well, let's try to keep to that thing. Like, can we get it in one? Yeah. And so there would come times where you had two or three shows in a night,

and so it's like three chances. Yeah. And then you're like, okay, I think the middle one went best, and so you still just put it up that way. Yeah. And then I also, I think it's a product of being a little bit annoying that I have a lot of feelings and thoughts on everything. And I think that I finally found a way to channel it

that is not annoying in real time, if that makes sense. So it's like, now I don't have to burden my girlfriend and my friends with this like long series of things that I think are funny about something. But still, if they don't care about the thing, then we were already off to a bad start. I think comedian, significant others everywhere will relate to this part of it. Yeah, yeah. It's like at least uploading to YouTube gives my girlfriend some relief

of me just talking all the time. That could substitute for therapy. I suppose so, yeah. Yeah, for couples therapy. I mean, yeah, because it is interesting. You have this uncanny skill of being able to just go and go and go. And so few comics have that. I mean, I wonder if there's like a correlation with it

and being an only child, because that could maybe help. You think so? I think that like everything I do on YouTube, is what I used to do to my mom. Yeah, I mean, it's like... That's how they invented YouTube. Yeah, it was originally kind of excess... And my...

Spillover from your mom. A hundred percent. Yeah, yeah. So then it would just be me going... That's all early videos were all about, you know? Yeah, yeah, I remember that. No, I just, I would. I would just go on and on and on.

And then, like, I could also... Before I ever really thought about... comedy in that way necessarily i like making my mom laugh yeah but i would like i would see where my mom as as like gracious as she is and was at the time to this like little kid who could just go on and on forever i would see the dip i'd see where i started like bombing with my mom i told my friends before they know of like sometimes i would be talking about my mom and she'd be like oh yeah yeah yeah and it's like once you get one of those it's like all right you got a there needs to be a turn You gotta get up, you gotta get it, there's got to be a surprise.

Where's the twist? Where's the punchline? Where's the turn? Yeah, you gotta bring it home now. Once you get a, that's only a parent's love too. That's so good. You know? That's exactly right.

I mean, but it is a really unique skill. Because most comedians, you watch and you go, okay, there's the joke, there's the joke, there's the joke. And you just have a flow on stage. You just keep going. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I feel like there's, I don't know, I think you're, there's always a grass is greener aspect to doing comedy because I see other people and I'm like, oh man, sometimes I wish I thought like that.

Like, I'm still glad that I'm me. Yeah. When everything is said and done, I like doing comedy the way that I do it because it's how I process things. But then you'll see someone who's just like so sharp and punchy. And sometimes I'm like, ooh, I should. I wonder if I should do more of that Or like, I wish I thought that way And then, you know, you come back to yourself

And you're like, all right, I enjoy the way that I think Like it's not like pure wishing I was like someone else Yeah But I think that it's worked out in that way That I'm doing something that isn't as normally done So there's like, you know, at least for the time being some appetite for it, which is nice because I feel like when I was just doing these things but not topical and not recording,

it was like no one noticed it, if that makes sense. No, totally. I mean, I think it's astonishing and like a great example for a lot of creatives listen to this show. And like I always say like there are things that you can make that in that years ago, 10 years ago would cost $10,000, $30,000. Yeah. That now costs like $500. in terms of like camera technology

and videoing things on iPhones and stuff like that. Like you're basically putting out fully produced comedy specials every few weeks or so and they look as good as anything, in my opinion. Sure. I mean, I think it's also the... I really believe in everyone's burden

that's a creative to make the thing that's on their mind. And I think that I look at it as I've seen people who are incredible painters, incredible at whatever their art is, and they lose a little bit of their time with second-guessing themselves and trying to make it perfect or whatever. Right. When you have to remember for people who don't draw at all, the drawing is amazing. Right.

And maybe if you're doing it to try to impress people who draw like you and you're trying to be a bit sharper or like you're playing to the back of the room essentially, then yeah, I could see getting like a bidding your head to the point where you don't release. But I just don't think in a world of noise, anybody is going to be particularly critical of like your chatter to the point that you shouldn't put it out there. I think that's very smart. Yeah, I think I think because so much of what is made is bad in general, that, like you made a bad thing if you make a bad thing.

Yeah. I don't know until I know how the show went for the people there. Yeah. I don't know how it'll go for YouTube until I put it on YouTube. So I can't

stress myself out too much about how it will be received on YouTube. Because job number one, which was making the people who came to the show part of an experience and making sure they had a good time, it's like done.

right so it's like if you did job number one then everything else is like is like um extra everything else is like this extra blessing that you get but at the same time if i if i feel like whether i put stuff out or don't put stuff out i don't know what um what general impact that has on the world yeah but i do know that me not putting it out while feeling like it was a really good thing and not putting it out for some fear of some unknown yeah is not going to serve anybody it's not going to serve the people who inevitably seemingly at least wanted to see it because it you know whatever video did well yeah it's also not helping me because it's like letting me sort of live in this general fear of like what people might think even though i already

have some confirmation from the people who i did it for that they liked it so it would only be me letting a louder insecurity trump a reality that i've already witnessed and so then you just you you just put stuff out and you get better and you put stuff out and you get better and then you build on that sort of confidence with the with with with a level of competence that you know what you're doing and you won't and you won't always get it right i mean i tell people all the time like i i i think sometimes it's it's easy when people are on the way up to like look at them like a stock right yeah i think i think in in industry both audience and and reps look at us as stocks. Yeah, for sure. And on the way, while a stock is up, it can only go up. You can only go

up. You're going up and you're going to go up forever. Right. And then at the first sign of a dip, people are like, oh, I'm selling. I'm getting out. I'm done. And then you pop up again and the people who stuck with you who never sold were like, oh, yeah. Yeah, it may go down a little bit, but it's always going to go up. It's going to be perfect all the time. And then, and so you see that like ebb and flow. That ebb and flow for us. is like our work. The ebb and flow for everybody else is the results of our work. And the results of your work are not up to you. So, like, I don't know how people will receive me 10 years from now. I don't know if anyone will still like me 10 years from now. But I know that if I stay on this path,

I'll be making better work 10 years from now. If I, like, if I stay focused on it, and it may not even be better by the standards of opinion. But I think it'll be better because I'll know what I've already done, I'll know the sort of pitfalls of doing that again, and I'll be making that sort of path for myself. And when you're creating from that place, like, sometimes I wish I was, you know, five, ten years younger again, just to take what I know now, that old thing. Yeah. But I would not trade knowing what I know. I wouldn't just go into a time machine and go back 10 years ago and be, you know, a little younger again without the knowledge of what I know. I wouldn't. I wouldn't just go into a time machine and go back 10 years ago and be, you know, I don't. have now yeah i would just make all the same mistakes or make worse ones or

that's like a classic a tell joke he's like i wish i could have sex with a person i lost my virginity too i'd be like ah look at me now look who's not crying but like i think what you're bringing up is like a is a really salient point for like a lot of people listen to the show because a lot of times we get like questions like how do you get an agent how do you get a manager and it's like I think your point is really pertinent, which is it doesn't really matter weirdly because if your stock goes down, those people jump shift. I mean, yeah. Like, what's crazy is that, like, and I don't want to, you know, like, I like my agents a lot,

but also, like, if things, if I weren't creating this podcast, creating my shows and creating my thing, like, they wouldn't be getting back to me that much, if at all. Or worse, if you snap. If you snap, if a person loses their mind. Yes. One thing that, like... Which never happens to show this. Yeah, right?

Like, one thing that reps are not, are like mental health care providers. Exactly. So it's like, if you snap and you go, you know, if you go on some talk show and have an absolutely viral moment that is bad, that won't not necessarily be covered by whatever relationships you already have. and who knows, maybe your stock goes down a little bit. Totally. But I think what it comes back to is, like, to your analogy of the stock market, you're the company or you're the startup, actually, is probably the more apropos analogy of it.

And you ultimately have to create. Yeah, you have to create all the time. The problem I find with, like, for a lot of creatives who are getting started, sometimes just because of the landscape of what creation looks like now, It gets set on a path that is a bit unfortunate, and it's a path that has, like, no joy in it. Yeah. Because the advice you'll get from someone who's, like, four years in a comedy,

if you just started comedy, will be like, are you got to go up and you got to do your open mics and stuff like that, but make sure you bring your camera. Yeah, yeah, totally. But anyone who's been doing stand-up for, like, more than four or five years knows that no one should know what your first year of comedy looked like at all. I know. Unless you're making a long-term project of, like, if you were,

making a project that was like that Ethan Hawk one. Yeah, sure. Boyhood. Yeah, if you're making boyhood and you're like, look, I believe in myself, I believe that I'm going to make something of myself and make a living doing stand-up comedy. So I'm going to document the entire thing to be an inspiration from people who haven't started yet. Maybe people who aren't even born yet. I'm going to record year one all the way to year 25, right? Because I'm that certain I'm going to stick with it that long. Now we're talking about something. Yeah. But if you're just trying to like, like go viral while also not having enough time to fulfill a contract when you do get books somewhere.

Like there are like, no, you didn't do your time. We're not paying you. Right. What are you talking about? Right. We hired you to do an hour and you did 25 minutes of rambling. And then you left. Why would we pay you?

What's wrong with you? This sounds specific, this example. Oh, luckily, not me. But it's a true thing. If you want to get started with any art, you know, you get. focused on what it is you want to make and what brings you what brings you joy about making it

and then if you focus like obviously everyone's going to focus on the most successful versions of the people in their field because that is what works and that is like what is great at least in a from popularity perspective yeah I think though I saw this really great take on at one time which was when you start something you are focused on the best in that field

because those are your heroes. So then you become incredibly critical of your work because you're comparing it to the work of like the greatest people. So you're very down on yourself. Then you start to make better work. And it may still not be equal to the work of your heroes, but it's about equal to the work of your peers that started when you started.

Then you get even further along and you have potentially another day, dip because you're like, okay, now we're fighting with the comparison of like, my hero was 10 years into comedy when they made the special that made me want to do comedy. And now I'm 10 years in and it's like, what does that mean if I can't make my Sistine Chapel of comedy or whatever? And so then after that, if you get out of that third dip, which is like a really hard one, because that happens when you're like a decade into something, you get past that dip and now you finally recognize that like all these heroes that you looked up to the entire time were just like people

making work. And so then it doesn't like level yourself with them in your head, but it does create a bit of a safety net of understanding for yourself where you can be like, oh, George Carlin, one of the goats was also just a guy that had ideas that bomb sometimes. Yeah. And like, and it took him a year to develop this joke that. made me feel like comedy was the highest form of expression. Yeah. So it wasn't like he was so brilliant. It just spilled out of his mouth and he was, and he was that good.

Yeah, yeah. He was that good eventually. And so it's like that, if you can make it to that space, I think it's almost impossible to be there in your mind and not be making great work, even if that work isn't, like, greatly recognized. I think that's a great point. When I'm watching your stuff, I'm like, he i'm i'm like josh is definitely in the running to be one of the the goats if not the goat

in comedy when i'm watching i feel like man if you if you could say that a decade from now and not right now i'm not saying it now i'm saying i'm saying i see it i need you a shit on me because like this is what happens though this is what happens people get excited this is the stock that i'm talking about people get excited and they're like neviti is never coming down It's never coming down. And then Trump is like 250% tariffs on a little bit of them. And now people are like forgetting the video. Josh Johnson's at 4.5.

Yeah, yeah. It's like, oh, no. No, no. But I really see it because when I'm watching yourself, I'm just like, you're, I think, more prolific than anyone working. And I think the proof is in the pudding. It's all on YouTube. And I think you're as funny as almost any comic I know.

And so then if you become more prolific and as funny or funnier than everybody, then you are the best. That is the best. Yeah, I think if everything stays the way that it is right now, I'll be in a good spot. Because right now, I feel like most of the people that I watch that I enjoy are, like, funnier than me. And most of the people that I watch and enjoy are better at, they have a better level of, like, focus than I do. By the way, in my algorithm showed up a video from you which was

Kendrick versus Drake explained to white people. Yeah, yeah. Why was it served to me? You know, I think that sometimes the algorithm does know how down someone really is.

That's what I'm saying. Yeah, I mean? That's what I keep telling all my black friends and I have so many of them. It has no idea how many people you've dapped up. It has no idea of the groups you've been jumped into. It doesn't get the subtle Yeah, yeah. You know, I mean, Mike, one day, our people.

Like, one day. Oh, God. Yeah, so I guess that's a great one. Oh, thanks. Hendrik Drake explained to white people. It is. And it does explain it, by the way. And I've read a lot. I'll listen to the daily episode about it, everything. I mean, I can, that was probably the best explanation. Thank you. Thank you. I can tell from you saying that you read a lot about it that. And I was like, oh, man, there might have been some bits you were missing. You know what I mean? You toured with? You toured with Trevor Noah for a bunch of years. Did he ever give advice to you on stand-up or anything that was helpful? Yeah, yeah.

So he told me, like, whether it's the act out or whether it's like the point you're making or whether, like, no matter what it is to always still bring that, like, that energy and that level of fun, do you know what I mean? Like, I think that sometimes if someone has a point to make, even if a joke is coming, and they seem far to, they just seem like they're not joking. It's not going to be received well, even if the point is not the joke. Yeah. Like, you may be making a bunch of points and then facilitating them through jokes to create an arc and bring everyone to an overall conclusion. Yeah.

That happening, still within that, in between jokes, you still have to remind people that they're at a show you still have to yeah i mean like like i think it would be i i think it would be a misstep to be like i'm gonna i'm gonna seem like we're not doing the show right now you know well you worked for the daily show as a writer before you were on camera for like four or five years uh a hundred years it was like yeah like seven years as a writer wow yeah you're the writer there and you know that you'd be good on camera. That's very kind. You ever like, hey, so you know who'd be good at saying these words I wrote?

You know, I feel like... Maybe someone like, you know, like what? I also feel like the timing has to work out. And I think that when you rush things, you can put yourself in a position that is like... That's not necessarily for you to shine as much as... like doing things at the right time okay so i think that uh for instance i'll give you a great example like when it came to the commie central half hour yeah i felt like i was ready for it the year before i

got it yeah and i was like you know understandably kind of upset because it was back when a different era before clips before all this like before social kicked off in that way that there were only so many opportunities and there were really distinct and structured funnels to make your way through to start getting a pass and start getting what felt like to the next level. Yeah. And this still happens. The internet has opened it up in a lot of people's minds so like young creatives or new creatives can really sharpen whatever path they want towards whoever they want to be like or whatever they

fine interesting but as recently as like 2015 you know so like just you just go back 10 years ago there was a world where you get your jfl new faces you get your comedy central half hour you do your late night you do all these things that almost seem like you can or you can't like like take it or leave at things used to be everything yeah you know like like the way the way that The Chicago Facebook group would pop off when the JFL callbacks went out. Oh, yeah. And just the, it was civil war for a week. Yeah, the dynamic of show business.

And this brings us back to sort of what I think you're bringing to the table in an original way to comedy, is the dynamic of the comedy, climbing the stairs of the comedy field right now has completely turned on its head. Yeah, yeah. It used to be, you try to get new faces, you know, try to work open mics, then you try to get new faces, then you try to get on a talk show. Now it's like, well, forget all that. And he's like, literally, you could do open mics, you could do, you could, Bo Burnham, make shorts in your basement and they blow up. They could do what you do. They video every set and put on your best sets on YouTube and then you blow up.

It's like, it's so upside down. And I think the best way. Sure. Yeah, I mean, I think that, like, when I look back at that half hour, I didn't get it the year that I really wanted it and that I really felt like I was, you know, good enough for it or whatever. And that was one of the first years where I had to accept, and don't get me wrong, looking back, I was only like maybe three or so years into comedy or whatever. So it's like, it was one of those things where I was like, I also had to take a step back and be like, once I was. Once they came out, it changed everything. So the crop that I wanted to be a part of, the people who got the half hour that year,

I watched all of them. And I was like, ah, this is very good. This is very good. Yeah. Jesus is very good. And then it started to, then it was in there. Drew Michael was in there. Maybe Lisa Trager was in there.

But like I knew some New York people that got it, some Chicago people that got it and everything. LA people that got it and I watched all of them and there wasn't a single one where I was like oh this person I feel like my set was like stronger than theirs or whatever I felt like my set was really strong but it was the first time I really accepted for myself this thing that people always tell you when you start out in something or when you're doing something of how like subjective everything is about how you can't take anything like you can't take things personally and you can't expect people to, like, get you when you feel ready. Yeah.

It's, like, everything happens in its time. So taking all that back to your question about, like, being on camera at Daily Show or not, I was like, that's a lesson I learned a long time ago that I've taken with me ever since then. Yeah, yeah. Because I look back at that time and being like, okay, if I had got it when I wanted it, you can play coulda, should, or woulda, but, like, would I have been kind of me versus when I did, get it which was the next year and I felt like I was like oh man this is it this is like and then and it was only better and it was different as well but it was like you know I don't even know

what happened to the jokes that were in the first tape but like the tape that I made after that I was like this is it and then I got it as well yeah and then it went out and then I got messaged by people saying like it was their favorite one or saying saying whatever yeah and I was like I think everything happens on time and that's just and that's not just because i got it there are some things i never got and i'm like fair enough like the the crop that you picked for that were incredible people so it's it's like the internet is open people's minds up to the fact that like every path is not for you yeah and you also don't want everything some things you just want because other people have them and you don't know what to want yeah because you because at one time you wanted them and but you've

changed actually because that's what new faces was for a lot of people it's like you would think you would think that new faces was like you die and go to heaven the way people got so mad if they didn't get a callback or if they didn't get it like you like people were ready to go to war like people want it and in chicago there's not that many industry opportunities at this time yeah so new face is one of the only things coming through town yeah and so people were ready to kill and then you look back at it And you're like, all right, you go to Montreal for like anywhere from a week to three days. Yeah. You do two showcases.

You hope people are there. If you already have an agent or a manager, you don't need it as much. And it's not what it was when they were doing JFL Aspen, where it's like people would leave with like development deals or, you know, the stories that you hear. Though that already wasn't happening by the time we hit 2012. I feel like people in show business are, would. rather find out from you what you're doing than you find out what they're doing. Yeah, yeah. That's how I feel how sophisticated your operation is right now.

Like, they want to get 9 million views on their YouTube shows. Oh, sure, sure. But that's what I mean. It's like, I think that if you don't know what to want next, you're just going to want what someone else has. Yeah. And if you do know what you want, then, like, everything else sort of, like, doesn't matter. Well, what do you, what do I, when I look at you, I'm like, I don't even know what you want that you, what you could want that you don't have. Like, is there anything that you're striving for, big picture? Yeah, I mean, I want to have the best, like, these are, these are all of my, like, most selfish, like, id, like, like, things that are, like, all ego, right? Um, like, basest ego. It's like, I want to have the best catalog ever. Yeah. I want to be remembered as, like, the best catalog. Yeah. I want to be remembered as, like, the.

best writer ever and then I want to be able to look back and be like I made all of this art with all these different people as well like you know I have plans for like music to come out I have plans like all all these other things that I want to be doing and so I think it's really just like the the ability to create I want to have more of free flowing as well so it's like with that's going to mean I need to have more capital or more collaborator. So there's definitely stuff that I want, but there's no, there's no, like, thing. You have Timothy Shalamay-esque aspirations. I guess so, yeah, because it's like, I see the speech? I saw some of it where he's like, I'm chasing greatness. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I want to be like Kobe. I want to think about it like that.

And it's like. But I like, I like that speech. People make jokes about it. I was like, no, I like that he's honest about it. And it's also something you can only get for yourself as well. because anything that I want that someone else has to give me, I'll be like chasing for the rest of my life, even after I get it. So like if you want, if I say I want a Grammy for Best Comedy Album, right? There's no practical way to chase that thing within art. You're just going to keep making your art,

and they're either going to give it to or they won't give it to you. And then there's going to be people that are like, you didn't give them. That's crazy. That's crazy. but it's either going to happen or it's not going to happen because it's not up to you yeah so if you make your passion and the thing you're chasing winning a grammy for best comedy album but you know all of the politics and everything that goes into it as well what are you what are you doing right

whereas if you keep making stuff that you feel like you could comfortably say I think this could win like like when I look at who's in the category I think this is as good as what's in there and you just know that to yourself quietly as well you're not even making noise about it. You're just like, I'm really proud of what I did. I think it's up there with all the people that are nominated. And maybe you get nominated, maybe you don't, maybe you win, maybe you don't. But like chasing greatness is like such a personal aspiration that you, you know on your deathbed that you did it or not. Everything else is kind of like, people have to give it to you. Right. You know, like even when people come to me and they're like, how do I write for

late night? I really want to write for late night. I'm like, you could be the best writer in the world but if you're not at the right place the right time and there aren't job openings then it won't happen yeah this is called a slow round um who are you jealous of okay there's um some people have already heard this story but uh there was a time where i ran into a guy at a party who was also named josh johnson and he was gorgeous and he was much taller than me. That's hard. And at one point at the party, I'm pretty sure unprovoked, this dude

was talking about, like science, like he was talking about some theory and spinning a basketball. And I was like, I gotta kill him. I've never won anyone dead the way I want this dude did. I was like, so, I was

seething with, it was Shakespearean the level that I hated this dude. This was like, this was. That's some globe And also, it's not like he was talking about physics. He was talking about a totally different scientific theory while spinning the... He was spinning the basketball because he, I just didn't, I guess he didn't have his mind on enough things at once.

And so I just, man, I hated that dude. And he was like, he was like jacked as well, but not like, but not in a gross way. Because you know, some people are so jacked, it's like, oh, you went too far and now women actually don't like it. Yep. Because you're like sculpted in a way that looks like steroidy, like your skin's all tight. It was a steroid level. He was not that.

He was like, he was draped just enough within his clothes that you knew he was jacked. Yep. Like a nice Oxford shirt, but he's like kind of busted out of it. And I was just like, why couldn't your name be Derek? Like, I need one of these things to not be happening. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, yeah. Very jealous of him.

great um what's the best piece of advice someone's giving you that you used um to be as uh patient as you are persistent yeah i think that with with patience you can get yourself to a place where it's okay if you don't do it today or if you don't start or if you don't because you because things take time yeah but then persistence can also make you impatient because you're just putting in the work every day and that level of consistency should yield results whether you're working out or you're working on your career or you're working on your relationship or something but i think if your equal parts persistent impatient then i like that that's a that's like a recipe for success eventually but you'll be ready for eventually because you're patient

This is the working-it-out section where we talked through premises or ideas. I had one today, which was, and again, a lot of this is just half-baked stuff where I don't have a punchline yet. Our super came downstairs and Jenny, my wife, had called the super and because there were animals in the walls. And he got there and I didn't know he was coming. And then I was like, let me put my wife on speaker. I remember I put him to speaker. and Jim, what was the thing you were asking, John Paul about? And she goes, there's animals above our bedroom.

I go, okay, like in the ceiling. And she said, yeah. And then she goes, and there might be animals above Una's ceiling, or that was in my dream. And I was like, we can't really be on speakerphone with that kind of take. Yeah, yeah. I think, I think. You can say that to your husband, but you can't say that to the super.

Yeah. I mean, so do you think that in making the joke, are you trying to express one specific thing? Are you trying to express how comfortable y'all are with your super? No, no, no, no. This is actually a good exercise. I'm trying to express that sometimes, occasionally, my wife, whom I love so much, will say something where I'm like, I thought we were on the same page that we would never say to a total stranger

what might have happened in our dream. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've got to go with hard facts. We got like the professional over. Yeah. We got to tell them where the animals are or where the animals aren't. Or a lie.

Even just be like there's animals everywhere. Yeah. But we can't be like maybe in my dream. I think there's something very funny about the idea that, like there are things that are confined to a relationship that you would never imagine doing outside of it. That's right.

For most people, it's sex. Right. That's funny. But for me, that's a good angle. For me, it's things that we know when said out loud should be secrets. And as much as I love my wife, she tells her secrets to people besides me. This is really strong. And it makes me as uncomfortable as if she just started making out with a...

Yes, that's like... It's like, no, not in front of... No, no, not in front of the Super, not in front of Jean-Paul. This is one of the worst threesomes you can have. Yeah, that's right. Is sharing what might have been a dream. Yep. But is actually...

Because now he needs to hear it just so that we don't lose all credibility. No, and I made eyes with him just kind of like, uh, you know what I mean? Like, well, yeah. So. You as the guy there have to now be like, this is first time she's saying that dream part. Just so you know.

This is the first time she's saying that dream part. Just so you know. That's so good. When I tell you right now that I wouldn't have called you if I thought it was the dream. Hey, this is the first time she said the dream part. The first time she said the dream part. I wouldn't call you if it was the dream thing. I want you to know, because now, now you, you,

completely separate from Jenny as Mike have to fight for your credibility. Yeah, yeah, I know. So now you have to stand there and be like, listen, listen, look, I know we call you for all sorts of things. But if she had said that dream part earlier, I would have told her to go back to sleep

and see if she hear it again, right? And then while she was asleep, I would listen for it. I want you to know there's protocols before we call you. There's whole things that we're supposed to do. I just want you to know how much I respect you, I respect what you do. I want you to know that in our marriage,

we have a contract. And that contract is if something is a dream we don't take it outside until we're sure we don't tell the strangers about the dreams until we're positive yeah because because when i tell you that if you leave here if you leave here and i hear something at the wall or the ceiling i'm just going to assume i'm in inception yeah yeah because i don't even know if i'm awake right now maybe we're both in my wife's dream and then the other okay so the other thing i had on this run potentially is um the other night uh my wife said to me the free The pipes are going to freeze unless we shut off the water in the basement.

Let's go down into the basement. And I was like, oh, my God. And I go, okay, I'm ready to go down to the basement. And she goes, I'm afraid of the basement. And that's when I realized that let's go in the basement means I need you to go in the basement. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think, I think, yeah, yeah, that's all I have.

Yeah, yeah. I think she tells you, let's go in the basement, the way that you would, like, say to the police, like, let's go in the basement. That's right. That's nice to bring it to the next. This is wholly your thing. That's right. You know?

And is she scared of the basement for a specific reason? No. I think she has claustophobia. And I think generally, like, dark space, afraid of animals, bugs, etc. It's also very funny if you have all those things. If you have, like, if she knows that you have all the things that make her scare the basement, but she was like, oh, I meant you. When I said let's. Yeah. I mean let you yourself. I mean let you yourself. That's what the contraction is. That's what the contraction meant. Yeah. That's very funny. And so then you go down there. Because now I'm interested as someone listening to you what it's like for you down there. Not just knowing that you might be. scared some of the same thing she's scared of but also now that you have to be alone

yeah paint a picture of that basement yeah because there's something very funny about her telling you we need to go down in the basement pipes are going to freeze oh okay the time in between you said the last thing can you say that part again in the beginning yeah so she says let's go down to the basement and then

I go okay I'm ready to go down to the basement and she goes I'm afraid of the basement so right there when you're like the time between she says it and then you say you're ready I feel like that's a great time to insert everything that is like... I'm feeling. Everything that you're feeling because you don't want to go in the basement.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then you finally mustered up your courage and you've been betrayed because it's like, I never meant to go down to the basement. And then the payoff is stronger potentially. Yeah, and then you go down there and then like something happens, something doesn't happen. Yeah. But then it's also very funny to be

if you get back up from the basement after this hero's journey, this odyssey to like let the water flow so the pipes don't burst. So you don't have to go down to a wet dark basement, right? And you get up there and she's asleep. That's really funny. So she wasn't even waiting for you. Like the way that Odysseus's wife was waiting for him to come back from this, you know what I mean? Like he, everyone thought he was dead. And she was like, no, my man is coming back to me. Yeah, yeah. Right? And they go. All of that basement mythology.

Your wife sent you down to the basement. And they was like, you know what I could go for? A nap. Yeah, yeah. And then, you know. And then I had this the other day. I was, I was, I was on a trip and I had a creak in my neck I had slept on it wrong and I went to the gym and they gave me at the hotel they gave me a foam roller

so I could roll out my neck in my back I'm on the elevator and this lady walks on and she goes what's wrong because I had the foam roller what's the foam roller for a stranger

I go oh I have a little creak in my neck and she goes you want oxy I swear to God I go no like oxy cotton yeah I was like no Yeah. She goes, you have oxy?

I go, no. He goes, you want oxy? I go, no. He goes, you have oxy? And then we get through her floor. She goes, she walks out and she goes, I have oxy. I was like, this is the craziest conversation. This is the craziest drug deal I've ever been in by accident.

Because it's the first drug deal I've ever heard where I can't tell if the deal is from or two. That's great. Like I've never heard someone offer me something then. asked me if I had the thing they were offering. Yeah. Because that's a bad salesperson. That's a bad salesperson. But I'll pitch you this.

I do think that in this scenario, the poor attempt at drug dealing was the only time somebody was really trying to help you because the pillow obviously hurt you because you woke up with a croaking your neck. Right, right. The person at the gym spa, whatever, also didn't help you because foam rollers hurt. True. And so the only person offering you relief is a stranger in an elevator that's like, hey, you, and it's like, doesn't have the oxy on them in the moment because that's an amateur move. That's an average, anybody who knows anything about drug dealing knows you don't deal the drugs and have the drugs on you.

Well, if you're a cop, well, if you're a cop going up there being like, oh, oh, my neck. Oh, no, I would love some illicit oxy, you know what I mean? So this person has to be careful. And so now they're asking you, hey, do you want Oxy? You say no, all right, but that sometimes is cold for not yet. Do you have Oxy? No, okay. So they definitely want Oxy.

All right, because if you don't have it, you must want it. And if you don't want it, you don't want it yet. And that is what we call like real, real business, not taking no for an answer. Always be closing. Yeah, yeah, sure. I mean, and so I think that there is a thing too where if there's any point, like let's say this becomes a callback later on from another story where you're also staying in this hotel either again or later in your trip, that like you know what floor they got off at.

Right. So now if you have any reason to go to that floor, you're probably going to pass their room. Sure. And even if you don't want Oxy, you may need their help because it's the only person you know on that floor. Yeah, that's a good, that's a good point. Yeah, I mean, so it's like now you have a friend in the hotel. It actually makes me think it ties in a lot to this whole other run of jokes I have about my broken shoulder many years ago, so it could tie into that. Yeah, because now you're not going to get, you're not just going to randomly get on Oxy, right? But how often, how often do you get an offer

in an elevator while rolling your neck? This is, there's a book called The Secret. Yeah. And sometimes, you know, the law of attraction, you're sitting there rolling your neck. Yeah. And it's not that, by the way, the oxy at least works. Yeah. I've been told to roll things that hurt and then they just hurt more. And then maybe they got better, but I don't know if the rolling, I'm, the jury's still out for me on rolling and I'm no expert.

But like, that to me is like, we know oxy does something. I think it was her way of saying, let's go in the basement. Yeah. Yeah. Are you more afraid of the basement or her hotel room? I believe that to be her hotel room. No. Because her hotel room might have all the same aspects as the basement. I would be completely terrified to go to a stranger's hotel room. I would be like, no, I'm fully out on this.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, a stranger's hotel room with Oxy is a wonderland. The last thing we do is called Working Out for a Cause. Is there a nonprofit that you like to support? Yeah, Feeding America. Oh, Feeding America. It's a great organization we've given to them before. We'll contribute to them again. We will link to them in the show notes.

Josh Johnson, amazing to see you. And I don't know, future goat. That's very kind. We'll see. I can still snap. Anything could happen. Working it out because it's not done. We're working it out because there's no one.

That's going to do it for another episode of working it out. You can follow Josh Johnson on Instagram and on YouTube at Josh Johnson Comedy. The full video of this episode is on our YouTube channel at Mike Barbiglia. Check it out. Subscribe. We will be posting more and more videos. Go to berbiggs.com to sign up for the mailing list to be the first to know about my upcoming shows. Our producers are myself along with Peter Salomon, Joseph Berbiglia,

and Mabel Lewis Associate Producer Gary Simon, Sound Mix by Ben. Cruz. Supervising engineer, Kate Balinski. Special thanks to Jack Anzenoff and bleachers for their music. Special thanks, as always, to my wife, the poet, J. Hope Stein, and our daughter, Una, who built the original radio fort made of pillows. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. If you enjoy this, go to Apple Podcasts and just give us a few stars and rate us and review us and say which episode you enjoyed the most, the Ben Stiller and Adam Scott episode, or the Tignitaro or the Joe Firestone. check out our back catalog and comment on Apple Podcasts

where you think folks should start thanks most of all to you who are listening tell your friends tell your enemies let's say your enemies are the animals that are living in your ceiling above your bedroom that may or may not be in your dream

maybe what you could do is you could play Mike Berbigley is working it out podcast very loudly for the animals and the sonic explosion will make the animals not even want to live there anymore, or it'll make them fall asleep

and then they won't run around as much. All right, we're working it out. We'll see you next time, everybody.