Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - Michael Che: An Amateur Therapy Session

Episode Date: August 24, 2026

(Recorded December 2025) Mike started this podcast so that one day Michael Che would come on. Today is that day. In this all-timer episode, Mike and Che work out tons of jokes and discuss the advice Lorne Michaels gave to Che that he’ll never forget, how Che went from designing and selling t-shirts on the street to being a stand-up comic, and what keeps him coming back to SNL. Plus, the time Che nearly did something to Colin Jost on air that he would really regret. Please consider donating to Food Bank For NYC Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Lauren used to always tell us, he used to always tell me, he used to be like, stop auditioning for the job. You have it. Nice. And it was frustrating as hell because I didn't know what it meant. And I think, what I think he was trying to say was, you don't have to convince me you can do it. Just do what you do. We trust you. Yeah.

And then, you know, we started to do that. And the things that started to work were the things that felt the most natural. So we just steered toward that. Think about how many people he said that to it before he fired them. I will not sit here for any Lauren Michael's slander. That man that's never fired anyone. Everyone's quit and giving up on him. Hey, everybody.

It's Mike Barbaglia. This is working it out. That's the voice of the great Michael Che. We are rearing this episode from last year, one of my favorites, really wonderful side of Michael Cheye. Michael Che is someone I've known for many years. A lot of people commented that this was a side of him they had never heard before. Thanks to everyone who came out to the John Mullini shows that I was at this weekend in Nebraska and Minnesota.

So much fun, as I mentioned before, unfortunately, I had to drop out of some of John's upcoming shows in September because very special project came together that I can't tell you about, but you'll understand later, I'm going to do stand-up comedy next year and I'm going to be out on the road. I'm going to go to those four places that I couldn't make it do. I love this conversation with Michael Chee. We talk about SNL. We talk about his first time on stage. We're talking about the famous weekend update joke swap. Interesting story about Colin Joe, sort of finding, discovering Michael Chey.

I mean, he was already discovered, but he did see him at a mic, and that's where he was interested in having him come on SNL. Interesting story. I oddly never heard that. Great conversation. Great episode. If you missed it the first time,

this is a really good time to listen to it. If you listen to the first time, listen again. It's a good one. Enjoy my conversation with the great Michael Che. First of all, thanks for coming. Jenny said today, Jenny goes, when you started the podcast five and a half years ago,

you were like, maybe Che will do it. Oh, yeah, I'm doing it, man. Of course. This is like your timeline. I feel like I ask you, I feel like our relationship is such that I'm comfortable asking you for a thing once a year. But isn't there an etiquette to that? Yeah, I think there's an etiquette, but it's also that doesn't apply, I don't think. You don't think so?

I don't think there's a, I don't really think so. Okay. Well, for you, like, I don't think that applies. I don't know, man. Because you also trash podcast in your Instagram stories. And it's hilarious, but you kill podcasts. I love podcasts. No, you don't.

I'm always worried about doing them. I think I'm like secretly afraid of them. Do you think so? I think so, yeah. Why? Because it's a lot. You're like, I feel like the more you talk, the closer you are into danger. You know what I mean?

Like it's kind of like that, you know, like in a way like you could be doing an hour. but if you do that hour five, that last five minutes could ruin the whole hour. Yes. I feel like podcast is that five minutes. Over exposure. After the set, yeah, you're just like, ugh. Yeah, man.

I should have got off on that laugh. You know what I mean? That's how I feel with podcast. That is so funny. But for a career, you know. I've had the same fear about doing this podcast in the first place. Really? I only did it because of pandemic.

Oh. For years, people like, you should do a podcast. They're like, no, no, too much me. Yeah, it's a lot. Too much meat. And then I was like, and then I had to do it because no one was getting on stage. I was like, I don't know. I'll just do comedy except on the radio.

And then it's like, the longer I did it, I was like, no, it's fine. Because the people, you know why? It's not overexposure? Because the people who like it, like it, people who don't don't. Yeah. It doesn't matter. But isn't that like what we do it for? It's like when it's fun.

Right. To me, like that's like the best case scenario is just to do it when it's fun. It seems like that's what your show last night is, right? At Hannibal's place? Yes. At Isola? Oh, snap. Yeah.

Yeah. You got to come by. I'm going to come. He closed it out. It was a blast, man. It was like, you know, like, remember Hannibal used to do knitting factory in that same location. And then he bought it. Then he bought it.

So this is sort of like our way of bringing back Sundays. I think it's great. It's so much fun. So you're going to do it every week? It used to be. Every comedian coming up used to have a bar show. Yeah, I know. Like, that used to be the thing.

And now I feel like nobody has them. I wonder. Let me ask Gary and May. Well, they're comics. People have bar shows? Just, like, at a bar. Yeah. Well, this is how I find out I'm out of touch.

I think they're touch. I don't know. Every time I ask comedies, I'm like, what's like the hot shows going? And everybody's like, I don't know. Yeah. Is that crazy? Am I making that up? You must be a star of a hit television show.

But there used to be, I saw Robin Williams at the Knitting Factory. I saw Chappelle at the Knitivet. Really? I saw everybody there. That's how I got SNO was at the Knit Factory. Really? Jose came by. He was head writer at the time.

No. At the Knitting factory. And he was like, dude, you got to come to SNL. No. And I got a two-week, like, guest writing deal. And then they asked me to stay. I've been there since. That's unbelievable.

That used to happen. Has that happened at a bar show yet? Thank you. That's what I'm talking about. Whatever happens at bar shows? anymore. That's what I'm talking about. That's crazy. Yeah, that's a true story. Wow. Yeah, he was head writer with Seth at the time. And he's been living in your shadow ever since. He's, uh, yeah, thank you for saying. No, yeah, he was head writer with Seth at the time. And, uh, he,

they was doing like this two week program where he was bringing in two different writers. I think I remember that. Yeah, Peretti came. I think like the, the term right before me. So you did a guest, You did two weeks of guest writing. Yeah. And it went well. And then... It went... I wouldn't say it went well.

It went decent. It was like... I mean, they hired me. So... You getting on? I got one. Yeah. I did get something on.

Why? Why are you like... Because it would never get on today. Oh, really? Oh, my God. I... Yeah. Can you say what it is?

It's rough. It's pretty rough. You got to say it. Well, it was a, you know, it was a romantic comedy called She's Got a Dick. And it was at the time, you have to remember, this was, this was a long time ago. But it was really funny.

And, uh, I don't recall that. Yeah. I think it's been scrubbed from the internet. It was, it was like, it was just like a fun trailer. Sure. Wow. Yeah. That's so funny because I always think.

It foreshadowed my entire writing career there. Well, no, what's funny is when I think about what you and Jost do, it is so. reliable every week and it's actually edgy on network TV, I think. Oh, wow. First of all, thank you, but it's hard for me to ever see it that way because I remember when it was the exact opposite for so long. So it feels like it's like, you know, I remember it being terrible. So for it to be something that people like is just like still kind of bizarre.

That's so funny. Yeah. What period of time do you think it wasn't good? Oh, for the first few years, it was, it was rough. It was really rough. But it was like, it was hard to do. Like, to be honest with you, I feel like, I can say it to you because you'll know what I mean. You know, I usually say like in interviews and stuff and people don't, if you don't tell jokes or write jokes, you won't know what the fuck you're talking about.

But I feel like there was a time when, um, Seth did it before us. And so Seth's writers, we inherited Seth's writers. Yeah. So when they're writing jokes for Seth, it's different than writing jokes for me or, you know. So for me in particular, it was hard for me to learn how to do update and tell a joke that I would tell as opposed to a joke that they give me to tell. And so I had to learn how to do it. And also reading a joke and telling a joke is so tricky because your mind is going.

two different places. Yeah. Like every word has a music to it. Yeah. To make the joke land. So when you're just reading it on a page, you don't just read it and it works. It's got to like, there's a rhythm to it, you know? So remembering the rhythm on cars, it's almost better to just remember the joke than it is to read the joke.

Totally. And I feel like for joke writers, they don't really understand that as much. And for joke tellers, get it. That's why if you ever watch SNO, Not all the time. There's like a few exceptions, but usually stand-ups have the hardest time with cards. Yeah.

And it's not because we can't read them. It's just because we're making choices on every word. Yeah. In a way that I don't think actors typically do. Yeah. Just from what I've seen. So that was like the trickiest part for years. It took us like two or three years before we could kind of like figure out a groove of,

all right, you do these kinds of jokes. I'll do these kinds of jokes. And then we could kind of have fun and learn. You know what I mean? then we can balance each other. And also just like finding that chemistry when we're always in a single was like tricky too, just figuring out how to stay alive when he's telling jokes and how to make it seem like we're in the same building because so much of it is reaction. Yeah. It's like small things that just matter so much more.

He's knowing when the camera's on you. Yeah. And Lorne used to always tell us, he used to always tell me, he used to be like, stop auditioning for the job. You have it. And it was frustrating as hell because I didn't know what it meant. And I think what I think he was trying to say was you don't have to convince me you can do it. Just do what you do. We trust you. And then we started to do that. And the things that started to work were the things that felt the most natural.

So we just steered toward that. And then it got pretty decent. Think about how many people he said that to it before he fired them. I will not sit here for it. Any Lauren Michael slander? That man has never fired anyone. Everyone's quit and giving up on him. No, that is...

No, yeah, dozens. Yeah, of course. But that's great advice. It's great advice, and it's also like... He says stuff that you're just like... You forget he's like a one-of-one in this business of how much. Like, this guy's... Usually when you have a show and Will Ferrell is your star and he leaves,

that shows off the air. Typically. Or if Tina Fasier head writer and she leaves, usually it's hard to bounce back. You don't. You don't get bigger. Yeah, you don't get bigger.

The turnover that he's had to do, he's had to watch Bill Murray leave. You know what I mean? It's like, it's crazy what he's seen and how, you know, how often he's had to do this. It's so funny that you talk about

like that the first few years you guys struggle because I was, watching that period. I didn't clock it. Oh, you must not read the reviews. No, I don't. I don't read the reviews. No, yeah. We definitely

stunk, but it's okay. You guys, I think in Norm are probably the best to do it. Well, Norm is our I think everybody's sort of sentimental favorite. You know what I mean? He's amazing. He was amazing. That's my, by far

my favorite just because of the way he did, the way he approached it, It was just, it's a thing that you just can't do anymore, you know? Like, it didn't matter if it worked in the room or not. Like, you know what I mean? Like, he kind of has a, he had a way of doing it where it was just like, oh, this is just norm segment and you can forget about any notes. It's a perfect example of, like, the thing you're talking about of, like, not reading

the rhythm of the cards because he just talked the way he talked. He just talked the way he talked. And he found it, he found what, like, when he told the joke, you. knew he thought it was funny. Yeah. And that was all that was important to him. Yeah. And it was, it makes it funny because it feels like it's a joke between him and the audience.

Yeah. Even when, even when the studio audience isn't laughing, at home, you're like, oh, this is amazing. You're watching this guy kind of do whatever he wants. It's sort of a freedom to that. And I think like the show is scrutinized in a way that I don't think it was before social media. Right. Yeah, I feel like Norm would have been killed. It would have been tough to get away with that now.

Yeah. Every week. But you guys get away with a lot. I mean, the joke swap, I think, is one of the most innovative joke constructs I've seen written in years. That's another, that was like a weird, that's another thing that it was like, those were all jokes that we would do at dress that would not work. They were bombed. That's why we did it.

Yeah. So, like, the bit started because we had all these jokes that we loved that we would, that would kill us in the room. And then we tell them at dress and it would just, we would get iced. I remember one time, I don't know if it was me or jokes, but I remember we told the joke and it was just, it was so quiet. And one lady just yelled, no. And it was like, that was it. In the dress rehearsal? In the dress rehearsal, it was like, no.

And we were like, no. Wow. Okay. But, like, so we would have those. jokes. We'd have like stockpiled those jokes. So we thought, I think it was like Tina and Amy or somebody was hosting and we were, they came on the update desk and we was like, for Christmas, let's do something where we give each other a joke. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, we give each other a joke as like, here's a joke that bottom that you loved and you get to say it

for Christmas. Yeah. Just changing. It was the same jokes that died. Yeah. But just letting the audience know that these are bad jokes, made them laugh hysterically. It was just like an odd thing, just the context changed. It's crazy. And then we was like, oh, let's do it again. Joe's came up with you.

He was like, let's do it again, but like, let's do it blind. You don't know what I'm going to tell, you know what I mean? Like, you tell me what to say and I tell you what to say. And then let's see who, so I'm thinking he's trying to trap me.

So I'm like, oh, this guy's trying to trick me and say something terrible. I'll show him. So I wrote new ones that were horrific. And we get to air, and he wasn't trying to trap me at all. It was just a regular thing. So I went so hard. I was overkill.

And then that's kind of been the rhythm of it. Now he's been trying to get me back, and I'm trying to, like, one up. And I'm always paranoid thinking that they're all going to get me. And then I'm always overshooting it. Well, it's funny, like, there's certain, it's a great testament to sometimes jokes need a reconfiguration for the audience. Like a recontextualization. Yeah, I think a lot of times the audience, a lot of times audiences just want to know it's okay to laugh.

Yeah. You know, like, they've, I think, like, the way comedians or the way people feel judged by, like, you know, I don't want to say this and get in trouble. I think audiences feel like, I don't want to laugh and get in trouble. You know, like, you do like a corporate thing and the boss is there where nobody wants to laugh. Or somebody's with their wife, they don't want to laugh at a certain thing. You know what I mean? Like, it's just like, there's always this tension.

By the way, you do corporate events? I've done like two. I've done like two. Like what? I did one this year. What company? I didn't even know. What was that?

Michael Chase, really? We're going to go with. You won't offend anybody? No, I did. We did one for like some, some tech thing in like the Manhattan Center. Oh my God. This year. Very rare.

Someone's getting fired. I say no to all that stuff. I'm sure. But it's that. You know what I mean. It's always like people. trying to find permission to laugh and trying to feel free to laugh. So if you set the stage of this is bad, it's okay, they sort of are like, oh, that's really

funny that you thought that would work. Right, right. Then the joke becomes, I can't believe you made him say this thing. That's right. As opposed to I'm laughing at this hard joke, even though you kind of are laughing. I had a thing, we had a thing in Sleepwalk with me, my movie, where my character is really unlikable doing some crazy shit. And so in the edit, I just say, before I tell you

this part of the story, I want to remind you, you're on my side. And then it did great. And then it saw up as everything. It saw up as everything. Because the audience is like, oh, okay, I get it. He knows he's being a little shitty. Yes. And so we're okay allowing for that. But that's a stand-up instinct. Like, I guarantee you, if you'd never do,

done stand-up, you wouldn't know that that would be the fix. That's right. Because you wouldn't, like, we know game speed. Yeah. We get to see the joke as soon as it. We find out the joke's not good as soon as it comes out of our mouths. And the same time as the audience finds out it's not good. Yeah.

Because there's stuff that I've definitely said that I was like, why would I ever think that could work? That's not funny to me or anybody. But right before I said it, I couldn't wait to tell this joke. But I think there's something to that for performing jokes that you kind of get, it sharpens that instinct a little bit. Yeah, Pete Holmes was saying on the show last week, and I think he's right. It's like, it's like when you're starting out, you have to remind yourself that it has to make

you laugh. Yes. Because sometimes you're like, no, no, no, this is funny. It doesn't make me laugh, but it's funny. Yeah. And somebody's like, no, no, no, it actually has to make you laugh. It makes me, like, I get in trouble sometimes on the internet for like laughing at my jokes on update.

Oh, really? Yeah. But I don't think people realize I'm not laughing at my joke. I'm laughing at you not laughing at my joke. Or laughing. Or laughing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like, I'm laughing at the audience's reaction. That's a hard thing to explain to people sometimes.

They'll see me laugh on stage. I'm like, no, I'm laughing at you. Yeah, exactly. It's funny to watch you process this. Yeah, yeah. Because I know what I think and I'm watching you react to it in the same way. Like, it's that. I think people miss that.

Odds are you thought about it for like 10 hours. So you've had a lot of time to think about how they'll react to it. Exactly. It's like it's fun. It's like showing a baby magic. You know what I mean? It's kind of like, wow, it's fun to do. Was there ever a joke swap where you were like, no, this is too far?

We're going to have to cut this. No. No? That's interesting. I've known some that they thought I should go. They were really scared about the, They were really scared about the April Fool's one. Oh, interesting.

Yeah, for April Fool's, I did this thing where I told the audience not to laugh at anything Colin said. Oh, God. Without telling him? Without telling him. Oh, that's so funny. I told the audience in holding, like, hey, when Colin comes out, don't laugh at anything he says. That's so good. And I wanted to do it for, like, a whole segment.

Yeah. And they were like, you can't do that to them. Yeah. I can't do it. I was like, it's funny. I was like, the longer goes are fun. And it was like, you can't do it. So we negotiated it down to like two or three jokes, I think.

Yeah. Which, you know, I was kind of mad about because I, you know, I think it's funny. The longer goes. But it ends up being okay. And I remember at one point, no one laughs. And then I tell my first joke, and it gets a huge laugh. Yeah. And then he goes again.

No one laughs again. It's like real, real tap it. And then he writes down on the book as I'm telling the joke. I can see him writing. It's like, this is the worst update I've ever done. He's like spinning. And then finally we let him in on it because I had someone, yeah, you stink from the audience.

And then we just like let him in. And he's literally like, that was a tough one from the recover from. I remember thinking like afterwards like, I'm glad we only. that are for two or three jokes because... You do it for air? You do for dress. Not a dress at all.

Not a dress at all. That's unbelievable. That was really mean. That was really mean. That was one that I was like, yeah, I'd probably like it too. How come every year on SNL in the summer, there's like headlines that are like,

Che's not coming back? I think it's because I keep posting that I'm not coming back. Is that what it is? I think that's why. I think they're getting that from me now. What is the psychology? of this every year. Do you actually think you're not coming back? Yeah, I always think I'm not coming back. And what happens? I don't know. I think I get it from my mom, you know, like every year my mom

complains about like doing Thanksgiving and how much she has to do for Thanksgiving and she has to like stay up all night and she always, and everybody's like, well, why don't you just not do it? We'll go somewhere else and she's like, well, then y'all going to complain. Like, no, we won't complain. But She has to do that. She has to tell herself that she has to do it, even though she doesn't want to do it, so that everybody can say, well, we're glad you did it. I don't know. Maybe that's what it is.

Maybe for me, I need to tell myself I'm leaving so that I could stay. We're glad you did it. Thank you. We're glad you did it. I'm so glad. And that's why? I'm so glad someone wants me. Every year?

I just need you guys to fight for me, man. And you guys to fight for me? Just fight for me. This is crazy. No, I don't know. I do think psychologically I always, it's a exhausting season. Well, it is. And also, like, by the way, I mean, Chris Rock loves you.

You know that. You're friends with Chris. I love Chris, yeah. He's always like, if Che left the show. Yeah, no. If Jay left the show, be the biggest comedians on the planet. Yeah, that's what you want to hear from your heroes. Well, you'd be great if you leave.

No, it's a lot. It's a lot when you really, really care. I'll say that because it could also be a real little bit. Of course. But it's a lot when you're trying to be. I don't know what it is. But on a, like, that Sunday after a Saturday, I could sleep 12 hours straight.

Yeah. Like, it's exhausting. I don't know why. Like you could have one sketch in, but it takes like every single party of your... Because there's so many moving parts. Like people see the show

and they critique you, they say it was not funny or all this. That could all be true. I'm not here to campaign for the merit of how funny or not funny it is. But I will say the amount of work that goes into what you see, everybody that criticized the show,

I wish they could just watch it one time live so they could appreciate that this is the thing that's never coming back once it's con. You know, like this will never be greenlit again. Yes. It's incredible. That's so true. And I've seen everybody, I've seen everybody in awe.

Everybody that is your hero, I've seen them say, oh, my God, how are we going to do this by Saturday? That's hilarious. You know what I mean? So, like, it is something that's special. So when you care, when you're really competing, when you're really trying to get something to work, it's draining more than any state. end up I've ever done more than anything I've ever done. So yeah, by the time you've done 20 of them in a year, you're like, I don't want to do this again, you know, and then you kind of have a summer. You have a summer where you start to sort of hear people say, you know, boy, we love this,

good job. You know, they remember like two or three moments of all the stuff you've done. They remember like two or three things you've done. And they're like, oh, man, I love that. I can't wait until it comes back or anything that happens in the news. You get, you're, you're, inbox gets flooded with, oh, you guys got to do this. It makes you care about going back and you get excited about going back. And then there's new talent coming in. And then you find out about who's hosting. And it just makes you want to go back.

So it is kind of cyclical of emotions. But, yeah, I bet it's like, it's like living in New York. It's like when you live in New York, you think everything is happening in New York. When you work at SNL, you're like, it all happens here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's a great point, too. Yeah, wow.

You do therapy? I have a therapist. I've had a therapist 20-something years. You'd be a good therapist if you, you should just do, like, amateur therapy. I think if it goes, if it all goes... You know how people do amateur porn? You should do amateur therapy. Because, like, amateur porn is better than regular porn.

Amateur therapy might be better than regular therapy. No, amateur therapy could be huge. Could be huge. Yeah, no. Amateur therapy could be huge. be $1,000 an hour. Easily. Especially if it's funny.

From Berbilio, I would do it. I would pay $1,000 just to see what it is. You're on it. You're on it. I'm doing it. I just got two, like, resolutions just now. What did you get? The New York thing?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And then you also said, thank you. Oh, yeah. I appreciate you. That's more than both of my parents has ever done from it. Right there.

I can't tell. you how much I appreciate your comedy. Oh, stop it. Seriously? I'm serious. I never say this on the show. Man. Yeah, I feel so much gratitude for your comedy.

I really do. That blows my mind. Seriously? Yeah, man. Oh. When you were... I gotta go call Lauren. I gotta quit this show.

On the Eddie Murphy documentary, you were saying, when Eddie was on, it was the most stressful week. When he came back. I didn't see the documentary. I can't watch. Really? No. Why?

I don't know. It was too weird. Because you too close to it, someone? Yeah. Oh, interesting. But what did you say? It's a good documentary. I've heard.

It's great. I mean, it's Eddie. It's really good. Yeah. I actually, like, was kind of blown away by it because I thought I knew everything. And then it's like, oh, you know, you get to know much more. I'm going to force myself to watch. The sense that I got from it is, like, he's pretty grounded.

It was. kind of crazy. It makes no sense that he could be... No, it makes no sense. Yeah. What's crazy is in the documentary, you also go like, first six months of the show,

he would take the subway back, stay and live with his parents. That's wild. He was on the show. Yeah. That's like when the Yankees used to take the train. He was like, what? Yeah, that's crazy.

Yeah. I will say that of all the people that we've had, we've had literally everybody, nobody was Eddie Murphy. Like that's interesting It's crazy how good he is at sketch comedy What's crazy? He's embarrassingly talented

Like it's like discouragingly talented Yeah I say at comedy Like he can just do anything Like cold With like anything Like what I was saying like

Oh you make a choice So never work is hard for standard None of that applies Anywhere None of it You can literally He can do anything as funny as anybody Right

He's got like Michael Jordan level Superiority It's unfair. It's really unfair. It's kind of like, it's more like LeBron in a way. I think Michael Jordan is the greatest, by the way, I'm not trying to haggle, but I'm saying LeBron in a way of like, like Michael Jordan still looks like other basketball players. Like when you see LeBron, he's like, well, nobody's that.

You know what I mean? Or like, nobody's six, nine and runs like that. Right. Like, no one does that part. Right. You forget how crazy. LeBron actually look. Like that's what Eddie is.

Where you're just like, well, nobody can do everything. Right. He can do everything. You can do everything. Literally everything. Yeah. And stand-up. And stand-up.

And, like, there's still copying his stand-up 35 years later. Yeah. Still. It's crazy. At the end of the SNL, the Good Nights, people always talk on the Reddit. There's a whole Reddit thread about how you don't say good night. you.

They noticed that. Well, it used to be... Come on. Hang on. Come on. Hang on. Hang on. There used to be a time where there was so many people in the cast where you might not have noticed.

I haven't been on Good Nights in a very long time. But usually there was so many people, like, how could you keep up? There's all that people on that stage. Usually, it started like I would skip like one or two just like. kind of decompressing or, you know, like, I'm in my dressing room, like, you know, just like, oh, it shows over, whatever thing, but, oh, I miss good nights. Then I found out no one cared if you missed it as much. And then I just stop.

Do you go home? No. I don't go home. Because I've gone to the after party, and I don't think I've ever seen you with you. A lot of times at the after party, I don't really like to go to the after party too much because it's a slippery slope. You go to the after party one time. You go to after party and then you end up at the after after party

and then you end up coming home at like 9 a.m. And then your whole Sunday's gone. Right. But the good nights, yeah. Then it just kind of been like, then it was funny. Like how many can I miss? And now, when I'm going to start going,

because I really didn't know people knew. My mother said, mentioned it one time. And I was like, ah. Oh, yeah. She's on the Reddit. She's on the Reddit. Yeah. She probably started it.

Yeah. Oh, damn. I didn't know. Okay, well, I'm coming back. Here's what Joe said. Jost goes. I go, Josie, you have a question for Che? He says, if you could have dinner with anyone named Hitler,

living or dead, who would you choose? Kanye. No. Kanye Hitler. No. Oof, that's a terrible question. And then the other thing he says is, where'd you get that really cool Nick's jacket? I saw you wearing.

I almost wore it today, too. Must have been a great friend with cool style who bought it as a thoughtful present. And wow, Kwanza's right around the corner. Have you bought that friend any special gifts yet? You got to tell me how he spelled Kwanza. I just want to know that I got it right. He got K-W-N-Z-A-A. Oh, not bad.

I think that's it, right? I think so, yeah. Count it. What's crazy's like? I didn't know this until I, because I've known you for 15 years probably, like forever, like before SNL. Pretty much, yeah. Remember we went to Australia. It was us and Pete Holmes.

Celebrated Pete Holmes's birthday in Australia. It's the first time I ever played tennis. We played tennis at that person's, oh my God, at that person's house. I don't know what that was. That was crazy. I forgot that until you're just saying it. Yeah. They were like, we're in Australia.

at the Melbourne Festival. You and me, Pete Holmes, David O'Dority. David O'Dority. And they were like, do you guys want to go a bunch of us? Like, to the country. And we're like, yeah, we'll go to the country. We're thinking it's going to be Australia, kind of like see wildlife animals, et cetera.

They just drive us to like some rich person's house who has a tennis court. Vineyard kind of thing or something like that. And we were kind of all like, this is so far. It's like two and a half hours away. Yeah, it was super far. It was super far. And then we got there, we were like, this is like America.

Yeah, that was, that was crazy to just see how people. Like, I'd never seen anybody that had rich before. Did you grow up around, like, a lot of money? I did not grow up around a lot of money. I feel like when I was in college, I started to know people where they'd have a lot of money. You go, oh, okay. When was the first time you met people with money? When I was in high school, I never went to college.

When I was in high school, I went to LaGuardia. Yeah. Performing Arts. And it's a public school. Yeah. But you have to audition to get in. So that means there would be kids there that had a ton of money. And there'd be kids like me.

Yeah. Anything. But I remember I was in a class with this kid. To this day, I don't remember his name because I didn't call him by his name. I called him Matt. Long story. But I remember Seinfeld was visiting the school. Yeah.

Jerry Seinfeld was visiting the school. And Seinfeld had just went off. year and it was like no one seen jerry signfield and he came to the school and this kid was like yeah signfield's coming um he's in my he lives in my building in central park yeah yeah and i was like i couldn't grasp that i was in a class with a kid that lived in seinfeld's building like what i didn't know that that was a thing i never yeah anybody like that that owned anything you know what It was just crazy. So when you, the thing I read that I never knew is you went to LaGuardia.

Yeah. And then you were printing shirts and selling them on the street. Is that true? It don't make it sound so glamorous. But it was that glamorous. You were printing shirts. Oh, yeah. Well, okay.

Yeah, that was like a, there was like a streetwear kind of craze where a lot of people were trying to be independent fashion. t-shirt designers. Okay. It was like early 2000s kind of thing? Early 2000s kind of thing. I got caught up in that wave and it cost me some money. But it was fun.

But you got a job at Tommy Hilfiger because of it? Yeah, there was one time I was on the street and Tommy Hilfiger's son and some friends, long story short, was they saw my shirts, they liked them and they was like, oh, you should come

I'm going to bring my dad. And I was like, okay, whatever. And not too long after his dad pulls up and he's like, I love your stuff. He's like, don't you come to the house? So I went to their house in Connecticut and they were really nice. And I brought some stuff. And he was showing me his art here, like all these crazy war halls. And it was nuts.

And that was like the first time I ever seen that type of thing. I guess that's the first time I've ever seen it. And that's crazy. Yeah. And then he asked me to come to his job, like his office, which was like on the west side, like meatpacking somewhere. And he went to the studio. I went to the studio. He took me to the studio to do like some designs.

He wanted to do some like new logos. And he like introduced me to everybody in his, in that department. Like he like brought me to meet all these people. Like this is this kid's good and all this stuff. And I'm like, this is terrifying. And then he set me up with a desk or a computer. And, yeah, that's it. And then you worked there for a couple years.

No, no, no, no, no, no. Didn't I work there for a couple years? I did some designs. And then I said, you know, I think I was just more comfortable working from home. Yeah. And he was like, yeah, go, work from home, just coming back when you want. And I just never went back. Oh, wow.

You meant literally. I would like to work from home. Okay. I'll be at home. I talked to him too recently. I talked to him not too long ago when we laughed about it. But it was just, yeah, it was like terrified. I think I was just like terrified of that.

That's crazy. Opportunity. And then when you were at LaGuardia, were you like, I'm going to be a comedian? Like, when did it occur to you? It occurred to me when I don't know. I felt I was bummed out about the

Hill figure thing. I was bummed out about I just didn't know what to do. I felt like I like blew a chance. And I was like, you know, I'm just going to start trying stuff that I just want to try while I'm still young enough to try it. I was like 25 or something and I was like,

yeah, just try it. And I just tried stand-up. Stand-up, I don't know, it was probably the same for you, but like it just felt like I spoke the language. quick. Yeah.

Like, I just understood it. Yeah. It felt like my first language. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like my brain thought in that. I didn't have to, like, try to figure out how a joke could work. Yes.

And I feel like with art, I had to, like, try to figure out what it is I wanted to do. And, you know, different other mediums. I was like, I had to, like, figure it out. But stand-up was just more like, oh, this is, like, my first language. So it just, I never thought about anything else after that. Did your first open mic go well? I don't know. It was like,

it was like the first time being on an airplane. It was just, it was like, I just felt different. Yeah. Like it just, I was looking, I don't know what I said. I don't even know what happened. I just, it felt different.

It was like, oh, this fits. You know, it was like, it was crazy. You ever see, like, those videos, like somebody could hear for the first time or something like that. just like the way they light up, that's how I felt. Yeah. And I don't even know if it went well.

It went well for me because I knew that was all I was going to do. Right. I did the comedy, I think it was called the Comedy Corner right down the block on McDougal. Right after that, I went to the pit. Yeah. Like that same day, had that Bad Slava list, you know, the Bad Slava list. No. There was this list where they had every single open mic in the city.

And they would post it like once a week, right? And I just would copy the list and I would just go to every single open. I would go up like six times a day. That's crazy. Five to six times a day. And then, yeah, it was just like the most thrilling shit. That's like the quintessential thing that I always tell young comics when they wanted advice is just like there's no substitute for doing it. None.

It's like being a cop. Like you cannot learn how to do it in a book. You have to be in the field. Yeah. You have to be in the field. There's just nothing you can do. You have to go to these terrible open mics. I'm glad you tell people this, too, because I do think there's something missing.

And the way we wanted to do comedy, I think it's a little different for comedians that are starting it now. Like what they want out of it. Right. Because I feel like there's been a change in, I want to say this right, I don't want to sound like an old bitter dude. but I do think that it used to be like you, like, I'll see comics now that they'll post every joke that they're working on. Yeah. And to me, I'm like, that's the scariest thing in the world.

Like, well, give it time, you know. You just came up with that joke. Like, why would you post a joke doing media? Would you want to work that for a year and get that perfect? Like, to me, the worst thing you can do is burn material. Yeah. Like, even still, like, I hold on the jokes that are, It could be two, three years old, but I'm like, ah, it's not ready yet.

You know what I mean? And I think that that's a flaw of a different nature or in a different direction. But I do think that there's a lot of comics who believe that just putting stuff out is more important than putting the best thing out. Yeah, but I think it's like, it's because of the media environment. Right. Rewards people releasing a lot of stuff. Absolutely. And so they feel like if they don't do that,

they're never going to get booked anywhere and they're not going to be able to get themselves better. Yeah, but do you think that that's sort of hurting them creatively? Maybe. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know either. I don't know either. Yeah. Because it's not perfect the way I do it. But I'm saying, like, to me, I just, I'm like, I get terrified of just that sort of landscape of constantly putting out all your stuff as opposed to really.

working on it and then presenting it when it's ready, when it's great and it's like like when I watch you guys coming up the polish of it you know like it just watching Yeah, a special is special.

Yeah. All right I ask that. Your persona as a comedian This is crazy that you have like notes and shit. Ages and pages of these questions. We narrowed down from more. Your stage persona is calm.

It's absurd. Yeah, it's absurd. Your stage persona is calm. When are you not calm? That's a good question. I feel like I'm... I get anxious a lot. You do?

Super anxious. Like, I can't sleep. What gets you the headspace? I'm just thinking about concepts and jokes and tags and shows and careers and why are these comics putting everything out constantly? What am I doing? Should I be just dumping everything out?

I think of that all the time. You know, like just every choice that I could make, I think about. It's funny, like, I love your sketch show that Dan Michael J. Oh, shit. You're the one. I loved it. No, thank you. I mean, I can't believe you don't do it anymore.

Sketch is a lot of work. Yeah, sketches a lot of work. It's a lot of work. But it's super. Like, if people haven't seen it, you got to watch it. It's so personal. Like, in the best way. I appreciate that's literally what we were trying to go for.

We wouldn't, like, I, we didn't want to do what S&L does, and we didn't want to do what Chappelle did and all these great shows that are having. already done. We was trying to figure out a different angle and one of the things was sort of making it personal and kind of you know, I don't know, approaching it almost like stand-up. You had like a whole

kind of like autopsy of your relationship. That was like honestly like one of the funniest things I've ever seen in a TV show. Thank you. Yeah. I don't know. Was there any fear in doing that of like who are my exes

and all that kind of stuff? No. they think of this? I didn't mind because I wasn't, I didn't mind, I wasn't afraid because I knew I wasn't lying about me. Right, you're tough on yourself. Yeah, so like it wasn't, I wasn't letting myself off the hook. It wasn't like I'm making fun of them. I'm making fun of me and my thing.

So it was like that, that was. You're not punching down or up. You're punching it in your face. Yeah, I'm literally choking myself. So, yeah, so I didn't really, I wasn't really afraid. I feel like my kind of rule for comedy has always been like, if you're not, as long as you're not lying, you're okay. Yeah. Like, you just don't lie.

That's good. I think that would be my pet peeve. I don't like liars. When people are bullshitting. I don't like lie. I don't like when you're saying you feel this way when I know you don't feel that way. Yeah. Like for a comedian, when they kind of push stuff that you're like, you're not that guy.

Yeah. That's not. You just know that that's where the joke. would be. But I don't believe you. I don't believe you have those thoughts. I made a joke a few years ago in this podcast, which is that liberals can't take jokes and conservatives can't

write them. I feel that when I watch your stuff, I'm like, your audience is probably most likely liberal. But also you're pushing their buttons all the time. Yeah, I think liberals, though, are I think they're turning the corner.

Yeah, I think possibly. I think liberals are. I think liberals are. I think liberals are finally they realized that, like, yeah, you're in a fight. Yeah. And they're punching in the face. And there's no rules. And you're going to have to swing back.

Well, the other day, I was messaging you because, like, you don't go political almost ever. No. And then with the snap stuff, you were just like, this is fucking insane. Oh, well. And then it got picked up everywhere. Yeah. Michael Chay thinks this about the snap benefits and all that kind of stuff. It was great.

But that's not even necessarily, like, for anybody's politics. No, it's not political. Yeah, it's like, it's just like, just from a compassion. I do think there is this belief, though. If it goes unchecked, I think it just becomes normalized. You're right. That people on welfare are just abusing the system in a way that they're just, that they treat them like they're the billionaires, you know?

It's crazy. Like, these people, there's some people that get too welfare checks. And you're like, whoa, $400? Yeah, yeah. Like, I've been on welfare. I'm telling you, it's not fun. No one loves this. You know what I mean?

No one's killing it. No one's killing it, dude. Like, I just took it a little personally, like, the way people sort of have this strange belief that people on welfare are just having a great time blowing money and taking advantage of the system. It's crazy. As someone who is a product of a home that was on welfare. And I remember we used to go to get the free lunch in the summertime. We would go to schools and community centers and, you know, all these programs really help my family. So I don't know.

I just try to humanize it in a way of like, hey, this happens for everybody. It's not as glamorous as you think it is. This is the slow round. Who are you jealous of? Who am I jealous of? oof, I'm jealous of, like, beautiful women. No, like specifically. I hear you, I hear you.

Like, sometimes I'm like on Instagram and I'll just scroll through like a hot ladies Instagram and I'll just see the life they live. Yeah. And I'm just like, where do you have, when do you have the time for all of this? And that makes me jealous of like how awesome life can be if I was just like a hot lady.

You know what they're scrolling through? What? Videos of Michael Jay. I don't think that's true. Living your life. I haven't seen that in my algorithm. Yeah, I think like hot women, I'm jealous of them. Like, damn, I wish I could do that.

I wish I could just be like in Greece, chilling in the sun. In Greece. Well, the country. Yeah, in Greece. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not in like a vat. Athens. In Athens. Yeah, yeah. Mekanos. You just want to be in a bikini? Yeah, I just want to be like in a bikini. In a bikini and mecanos. Yeah. I want to be like in a pool next to the ocean. Like so much water,

a little hot tub. All the water I could think. Yeah. I like that. But that, you know, I think as Chris Rock who said, being, being famous is like being a hot woman. It's not, man. Hot women have it way better. Do you think so? Yeah. Hell yeah. What? I don't know. You think Chris Rock, you think Chris Rock's life is as good as Kim Kardashian's life? I don't know. You know. It's definitely not.

But then if you're the hot woman, you have to deal with people, cat calling you and all yelling at you and shit. Not on an island in Greece. Oh, you good. There ain't nobody around. It's just you and God. Did your life go how you expected it to go? Hell no. Hell no.

What did you think was going to happen? City job. Work for the rest of my life. Maybe get a break when I'm in my 70s or something like that if I make it or something. Yeah, like I thought it would just be like everybody I know. Yeah. Just work until you can't work no more. Yeah.

I'm still working until I can't work no more, but it's a lot better. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't think comedy. would be the thing. Yeah. But who does? Who does?

I just knew I liked it a lot. Yeah, yeah. I just knew I enjoyed it. But I didn't know it would be the thing. Yeah. What is the weirdest thing that gets served to you in your algorithm? Sound like a broken record, but... Hot women?

Listen, it's not... I understand you see hot women in, like... If you see hot women in, like, Greece or something, Like when I get hot women like selling houses, hot women, you know what I mean? It's like, what? I can't even everything. Everything is hot women. Hot women making food.

Selling watches. Everything. They're just like they're everywhere. Bacon muffins. Baking muffins. Yeah, yeah. Sure. Trying Popeye's in their car.

There's a hot women. There's a theme here. Yeah. I'm like, what is going on? Anything. I don't know. That's sort of like getting annoying now. I'm like, all right, dude.

I'm trying to stop. Yeah. Do you have any material you're working on that you're open to discussing or throwing out there? Oh, shit. Oh, wait a minute. This is a great opportunity. I don't know what I fuck this up. What can I, what can I do?

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. That's dark. You can go dark. All right. There was this one joke that I was trying to figure it out. I told it one time, a long time ago. Like maybe my third year in comedy, second or third year in comedy. And I was like talk, maybe it was like first or second year in comedy.

And it was about how like I think black people don't like the N word because we don't know what it means yet. Like no one's ever explained to us exactly why or how we've become that. Yeah. And which kind of is like something. And then I was trying to find a word. The word I found was ferval. The word I found was ferval. That's the word I used at the time for like, let's say you were kidnapped and brought to like a faraway land and they made you pick cotton and they beat you and they did all these foul things to you.

All because according to them, you were a ferval. You've never heard the word before. You don't know where that is. Every time you try to do something, you go somewhere. They're like, get out of here, your ferville and all this stuff. So it goes into that. But I just don't know where it goes. I think it was like something to like,

because we might not be the fervables you're looking for or something in that world. Or it's like with the N-word in particular, it's like always it's become like the statement. It's become sort of like the placeholder for. for every offensive thing. That's right. If you say anything,

you're like, well, that's our N-word. Right, that's right. Why is it... Why is everything your inward? Slow down. Why do you want one? You know what I mean?

Why do you want one? Everybody has their N-word. Okay, whatever. But I think that's funny, like, fervil. The reason I think that that's great... This ferval sounds so silly. It's a silly.

Yeah. It's an inherently silly word. Yeah. And I think that you could basically take the, channel the discomfort of the... which will be inevitable.

Right. To talk about this. Right. And have all of those uncomfortable things be channeled through your readings of verbal. Yeah. Because I do, yeah, it's silly enough. You can also ask someone in the front row to say it. Say verbal.

Say verbal. Go ahead. Give them the microphone. Say it. No, it's fine. It's fine with me. You can say it. You can say it because you are.

one. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But I like that because it's like, because there is that thing where for whatever reason in the last 10 years, there's, there's, you know, at any given moment,

there's five words you can't say, then it's 10, then it's 20, then it's five again. Then people start using this word again, and they're triumphant about it. It's a pendulum of things. I think, I think as you, you know, the thing is,

the words have become arbitrary. I think people stop you from using the words because of the treatment and the feelings toward a certain group of people. Yeah, of course. But the word, you can still treat people bad. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And not ever use the word.

100%. So the guy that's using the word that doesn't treat people bad is way better than the person that doesn't use the word but is absolutely awful. 100%. So I think like that's where to me the comedy lies. For sure. Yeah, I know people that use the N-word but don't treat people that way. Yes.

And I know people that don't use the N-word that are profiting of the pain of these people directly. So I think that there's something funny in that sort of hypocrisy. That was one of my jokes. I think it's odd that we celebrate Indigenous People's Day on the same day as Columbus Day. Why don't we choose a day that's meaningful to indigenous people? Maybe like the day before Columbus arrived or any other day before he arrived. I like that. I thought that's something.

No, I like that. You know, I always say that about like Black History Month. Like every time people would say like, oh, we don't need white people. Anytime white people say we don't need Black History Month. I'm like, you're right, we should have White History Month. And it should be all the horrible things that white people have done to Black people. It's the same month. Have you done that as a bit?

No. That's a great bit. It's the same kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. Well, so what is it? It's also a bogus thing, Black History, most shortest month, et cetera.

Yes. That's cold. It's cold. It's cold. Most tropical people, the coldest month. And then I wrote down, I wrote, you know, we stole the land from Native Americans. Everybody knows that. It's true.

It's one of the only crimes where the punishment is saying, sorry. and then not giving the thing back. Can you imagine if you stole a dozen muffins from a bakery and the cop chased you down? You're like, I'm so sorry. And you're just eating the muffins. He's like, you got to give them back. I'm like, no, I can't give him back, but I'm so sorry.

Oh, my God. And then I got to this in too. That's the whole part right there, not giving it back. That's that crazy. That's the whole thing. Oh, that's good. Yeah, it's wild. It's actually up on that wall.

You're asking what the cards were for before it was go, maybe the day before Columbus Day. I like Judaism is the Windows 95 of religions. That's a good one. Yeah, yeah, that's a good one. I love that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good one. I had a joke and I think it's a joke.

And it's a line. It's a throwaway line in a larger joke. But it always is. makes people sad because the line is some people don't believe in God. I don't think God believes in us. It's sort of like that. But in the fun of the, I tell it in the middle of a bigger joke, in the fun of that bigger joke, it halts. So I just stopped using it because I was like, oh, this just like ruins the momentum.

But I think it's so funny that God like maybe just doesn't believe in us. And I don't know what people don't want to hear that though. Like it's like a hard thing. I had a thing this week about Christmas where I'm like, I'm like, Christmas is Jesus's birthday. And on his birthday, at his birthday, they invite a fat guy who's drunk and has presents. That's right.

And Jesus is like, wait, but isn't it my birthday? Who is that? Yeah. You know what I mean? What is happening? Like, and then, yeah, I have just a whole thing. Like, I'm trying to write this thing. And it's totally on, it's totally half baked.

But it's just about how, like, all of these holidays that we go, we, Columbus Day, no, but also indigenous people, but also Thanksgiving. There's way so many holidays. Right. And it's like, Thanksgiving. It's like, what are, like, I'm at Thanksgiving with my, with my, with my parents-in-law. Like, we give thanks for blah, blah, blah. Why? Because we thanked the Indians.

Did we? Did we? Like, I'm not sure. Yeah. Like, I feel like no one is your. And then you get to Christmas. It's like, well, it's Christmas. It's Jesus's birthday.

But we don't talk about it. It's about Santa. Who's Santa? I don't know. Like, it's such a mess. I wish we would just stop pretending holidays are for what they're not for. Like, let's just make Thanksgiving. It's food day.

It's food day. Let's just make it food day. Yeah. And let's make Christmas gift day. Yes. That's what it is. That should be broad categories. Valentine's Sex.

day. Sex day. July, Firework Day. Just make it that. Just, that's all it is. We don't need the lore. We don't need the legend.

We're not holding up. We're not celebrating that. Yeah. Presidents Day, mattress day. Yeah. That's it. Columbus, it's like we all know Columbus didn't come to America.

No. No. And we don't have to argue that. We just, we like the part we like. Let's just make it that. Because what are we doing this for? I don't know. It feels so disingen. It's absolutely, because it is.

Because it is. Let's just celebrate it, why we celebrate it. And then I wrote this time. I was playing hangman with my daughter, which is a word game where you guess the word or phrase, and if you guess the letter, and it's wrong, your daughter draws a human being

of you being murdered in public. It got murdered in public by my daughter. And the phrase was, let's go swimming and I didn't get it right and I was hung in public drawn by my daughter.

That's good. Yeah. And I just wrote down, this is in my notebook, but it's like whenever you play game like that, you have to think, what's the derivation of this one? Clearly at some point someone got hung. I think I like to judge people by how they draw the arms. How they draw the arms?

I draw the arms like this. I want the guy to struggle. I don't want the kind of struggle His legs got to be kicked out Oh, that's sick But you won't know Until you won't know So it's like

You're like, wait a minute That's an interesting drawing Yeah And also I think you have to judge the shoes Sometimes too Yeah, those aren't shoes This person's terrible drawing

Terrible draw Yeah I have a joke That I've been talking about a little bit. It's kind of a joke I always tell, but it's like a throwaway joke, just about how, like, I'm trying to slow down my drinking so I don't have to quit. Like, I think there's a sweet spot.

There's a sweet spot. Yeah, like my biggest fear is walking into my living room. My whole family's already there. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. They all got notes and shit. But I don't know where it goes from. From there.

I just use it as like a throwaway. But I do think there is sort of this sweet spot in drinking enough where that you can drink for the rest of your life and not have to hard quit. I have friends that quit drinking when we were in our late 20s that I could see now, they could go for a drink, you know? It wasn't as bad as they thought they might have been. Totally. But they can't because if they did, it would make me sad. It would make everybody sad. they'd be like, oh, no, you're drinking again.

Yeah. So, like, that's like a big decision to just quit. Yeah, I think the thing to break apart is, like, how many days a week? I think you're getting into math. Do you drink seven days a week? No. You drink five days a week? Three.

Or you think three before the people show up your living up. Let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a question. Does 9 p.m. Does 9 p.m. and 5 a.m. count as one day or two. Those are two days. That's two days? Come on. I think I judge days by clothes.

If you're wearing the same thing, it's not a different day. I accept that. I think that you should do this as crowd work. Okay. This is a great crowdwork piece. Okay. You've got to ask people. First of all, you've got to ask how many days is acceptable a week to drink. How many would you say?

I think you can get away with four. I think over four you start to go, okay, is this a dependency? Hmm. I can live with four. Five to seven feels like a dependency. I could live with four. Four is good. You're good with four?

Four is good. And then. What if I'm not? Okay. What if I'm, all right. Four is good. But then let's break apart how many drinks per session. This is what I was worried about.

Okay. Okay. So I got a very high tolerance, though. This is worrisome. You're one of the people I worry about. No, I'm going to have... What's your tolerance? Five or six strings?

Yeah. I could do that. Let's go more than that. No, I can do five or six. I could do five or six. But that feels like, how about seven or eight? I could do seven and eight, but I can't do that. I can't do that twice.

I'm on nine or ten. I have done that. I can do that. Wow. I do do that sometimes. I might 9 to 10. It depends on the drink, though. That's people in the living room.

Wait a minute. No, hang on, hang on. Okay, a shot in a beer. How many drinks is that? It's one and three-quarters drinks. Okay. Okay. I could do four.

I could do five. I get to six. I can do six. I can do six. That's good. Yeah. Is that your final answer? No, yeah.

I can do five, four, five, or five or six. All right. The final thing we do on the show is working out for a cause. Is there a nonprofit that you like to contribute to? You and I were talking the other day about food banks in New York based on the stamp stuff. So I figured that might be a good one. That is a great one. I always say this on the show, but food banks do this amazing.

amazing job of stretching a dollar. It's really, really, really helpful. And shout out the Charlemagne de Guard, who I actually reached out to, you know, he's a spokesperson for them. Oh, he is? Yeah, so he actually gave me the contact. Oh, that's great. Initially, so I really appreciate that.

I'm glad I got to do that. We will contribute to them. We'll link to them in the show notes. I don't know why we got so sad all of a sudden. I think we're happy. We could have said that funny. This is me happy. I know.

My comedy just got to end in a serious voice for some reason. This is my voiceover voice. Yeah, this is getting real serious. But yeah, people should, but, I mean, I always say that on the show. Every episode we listen to, we give to a nonprofit. If you listen every week and you go like, like, yeah, I'll give it that someday. This is the one you should give to this one. We'll link to them in show notes.

It could be in your town. It could be the Food Bank in Cincinnati. It could be the Food Bank in San Jose. These are great organizations. Yeah, and they never don't need help, you know? They never don't need help. And we have enough. There's enough of us that have enough.

And we pay a lot to live here. And I'm happy to do it. But you just want to make sure your money is going to the right places. And it seems to sometimes not be the case. So we have to do extra things to make sure that, it balances out. But we'll remember that next November, right? Thanksgiving.

Michael Chee, thank you so much. I have so much gratitude for your comedy. I love you, dude. I love you, too. I love you, too. I really, really, really appreciate everything. This is so much fun. Working it out because it's not done.

Working it out. That's going to do it for another episode of Working It Out. You can follow Michael Che on Instagram at Chey thinks his Instagram is ridiculous. I think he has one square, but he posts a lot of really funny, ridiculous things in stories all the time. Yeah, he's one of the funniest people to follow it. Check out Burbigs.com to sign it for the mailing list, as well as the text message alerts. You can watch the full video of this episode on our YouTube channel.

It's at Mike Berbiglia. Do me a favor and subscribe. It supports the show. And also we post more and more videos every week. Our producers of working it out or myself, along with Peter Salomon, Joseph Barbiglia, Mabel Lewis, and Gary Simons. Sound mixed by Ben Cruz, supervising engineer Kate Balinski. Special thanks, thanks to Jack Antonoff.

And bleachers for their music. Special thanks to my wife, the poet Jayhobstein. And our daughter, Una, who built the original radio fort made of pillows. Thanks most of all to you who are listening if you're enjoying this show. It would do us a huge favor to rate us and review us on Apple Podcasts. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. Tell your friends, tell your enemies. Tell LeBron James and Michael Jordan.

You know, the next time you run into LeBron, James, and Michael Jordan, just go, hey, there's this podcast. Mike Bribigley is working out. This comedian Mike Bribigley works out jokes with other comedians. Turns out you were both name-checked in the Michael Che episode. One of you comes out on top. That'll be a cliffhanger. Thanks, everybody. We're working it out.

We'll see you next time.