Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - Stephen Colbert: A Gift from the Comedy Gods

Episode Date: January 5, 2026

Best of WIO: Stephen Colbert (Recorded January 2025)This week the legendary Stephen Colbert returns to the podcast. Mike and Stephen discuss the behind-the-scenes of Stephen’s Late Night job as well as his Chicago improv days. Stephen talks wisdom passed down to him by David Letterman, Del Close, and Mike Nichols, and shares what makes him cry most easily. Plus, Stephen’s thoughts on meeting George Lucas and the Pope.Please consider donating to Radio Lollipop Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

My first person I, like, studied in any improv with was Del Close. And a lot of people had a guru relationship to him. Some people, not a lot, but some people did. I never did. I mean, out of, like, probably when I was younger, I was too emotionally distant to actually allow myself to join the cult. You know what I mean? And also too much of a skeptic to get involved in the cult,

even though some part of myself, the part whose father died when he was young, was like, you be my daddy. It was, I'm sure, in there, but I never acted on it. That's a fitting aside to say, he used to say you're not improvising. You're just letting the universe channel through you if you just open up all your senses. That's it. Your job is to open up all the stops on the organ. That's it.

So it can just flow through you. And he would take out his little pentagram and put it on his chest before he performed. Because he said the stage was a sacred space. And it is. I mean, showstoppers. Stephen Colbert throwing showstop. Stop and pitches all day. Happy New Year, everybody.

It's Mike Barbiglia. We are back with Working It Out, 2026. That was the voice of the great Stephen Colbert. This is a rear of an episode from almost exactly a year ago. January 2025, we loved having Stephen in the studio.

was such a dream. I've been on his show many, many times. I've been a fan of his for so many years. The late show is Stephen Colbert, The Colbert Report, The Daily Show, Strangers with a Candy, on and on and on, and on. One of the great highlights of the year. In a week, we will be back with an all-new episode with Sarah Sherman from Sarah Nett Live. But today, I hope you enjoy Stephen Colbert. By the way, thanks to everyone who signed up for working it out premium. We just dropped our third bonus episode. It is an episode with my wife, the poet J. Hope Stein.

We're doing a thing called Jokes and Poems that we do every few months at Joe's Pub in New York City. And in the episode, we rolled audio and recorded the preparation for jokes and poems. We just thought, huh, well,

we're working out in the studio. Why don't we record it and edit the best parts together and that's what that is. You can sign up for Working It Out Premium on Apple Podcasts. If you click on our podcast and then see the thing, it says Working Out Premium.

You can subscribe, and then in every single episode, you get no ads. And then about once a month, we put a bonus episode in the feed. We did an episode with me and Pete Holmes, punching up your listener jokes. And, yeah, we really appreciate it.

We appreciate your support. We care deeply about this podcast you're listening to, and we appreciate you supporting if you can. Thanks to everyone who has signed up for the text message alerts. As you know, I've had my email list for, God, about 25 years. I've been staying in touch via emails and secret public journal entries. In the last year, we added this thing, which is just text alerts. And the reason why is that in some people's email, it goes to spam. I don't even know why.

Sometimes it goes to my spam, which is absurd because it's me. So anyway, if you want to make sure to be the absolute first to know about these club dates in Philadelphia, Palm Beach, Florida, Madison, Wisconsin, Buffalo, New York, Raleigh, North Carolina, Los Angeles, and Nashville. Just text the word berbigs to 917-44-7-1-50. Textber Biggs to 917-44-7-4-4-7-1-5-0. And then you'll be the first to know about those shows. I'm really excited about the new material.

It's a combination of things that didn't make it into the last special of The Good Life. For whatever reason, usually it's like thematic reasons. Not that it's not funny enough, but that it doesn't quite fit what the causality of the storytelling is. And so I've got some of that stuff. I've got probably 20 minutes of that stuff. I have like 30 minutes of just new, new jokes that I'm doing. at the comedy seller, working out, things that I'm just kind of obsessed with. And then probably like 20 minutes of things that are like just stories I like to tell.

Like I've looked through the years and it's like sometimes I'll do the scrambler story. Sometimes I'll do the wrestling story from Old Man in the Pool. I'd love to kind of dig through and see from my other specials through the years which stories hold up. Some of them don't. Some of them you go, oh, that was just a moment in time. And then some of me go, oh, that's actually kind of fun and timeless. The scrambler stories like that.

Like, I've been doing it lately again, and it's so fun because it's so weirdly, like, nostalgic, both for when I recorded it and girlfriend's boyfriend, and also just being in seventh grade, reliving, being in seventh grade, and throwing up on the scrambler. Anyway, if you don't know that story, you don't know what the hell I'm talking about, just take my word for it. It's a good story. Anyway, I'm going to be performing new material at those clubs, Texper Biggs, to 916. 744-7-4-4-715 if you want to be the first to know.

Also, I'll be on Broadway next week in the show All Out alongside Cecily Strong, Wayne Brady, and Beck Bennett, January 13 through 18. It's a great show written by Simon Rich with the band Lawrence. You can get tickets at all-outbroadway.com. Love this episode with Stephen Colbert. You should know we recorded this before everything went down with the late show where it's ending this year and,

all the political elements of it. That is not addressed in this episode. This is all the conversation before. That all went down. But let that not take away from the fact that I'm talking to one of the great comedy legends of the last 50 years. Stephen Colbert. Stephen's resume is second to none.

The Late Show with Stephen Colbert, the Colbert Report, the Daily Show, Strangers with Candy, on and on and on. He's just a brilliant person, and I just love being able to chat with him. Enjoy my conversation with the great Stephen Colbert. Okay, so how do I interview you best? What's the best?

You are being an expert interviewer. How would you come at this? I know if I'm an expert interviewer, but I do like talk. like talking to people on the show sometimes actually that's my favorite part of the show to talking to people often it's my favorite part of the show that's what i like about your show so much is that you it does feel like real conversations with real people i wanted to be i wanted to be a talk show yeah but i think what people respond to i mean hopefully my what i's because what i like is that just two real people really having a conversation that organic nature of it has got something kind of a affable

that i don't think an audience would be able to define but you just know when we're really talking and having fun right so i don't know how to interview i don't know how to interview me i'm my life's an open book generally speaking i don't got nothing to hide so you know dirtiest you know so much stuff is like you first i have a good memory you've a good memory i'm not that smart people think i'm smart but they usually mistake intelligence for a good memory yeah but you you have good memory gonna walk you back on this one i have a reference level that people associate with being smart but that's not evy my wife is much smarter than i am john stewart much smarter than i am Paul Dinello, much smarter than I am,

because I think they are clearer thinkers. And when I think of intelligence, I think of ability to analyze a situation and then have clarity in your response to it. You know, like, I think Paul's a much better at like directing or putting together a running order or something like that. Yeah.

But I have, again, I have this memory that seems like I'm smart. In fact, I can just memorize anything. That's crazy because that, that, It attracts that your background is an improv because I think improv is so much about just associations, quick associations, this to this, to this, to this, and then next scene. Paying attention too, like paying attention so that you can make those associations. Yeah. You know, I don't have a lot of computing power, but I have a lot of desktop memory. So I can refer to things very quickly, and I can pay attention and keep a lot of stuff in mind.

I can memorize strings of numbers and shit like that. But that is sort of a synecarchy for being able to keep a lot of stuff in your mind or absorb a lot of stuff. stuff when you're improvising and then spit it back out when it's fitting. Right. You know, or it would be useful or something like that. But that's not the same thing as like having computing power. Oh, wow. That's interesting because I was talking.

I'm a huge fan of me. I'm like, this is not, this is not me. I'm not dumping on me when I say this. I just think that I'd be deluding myself if I thought of I was as smart as my wife. That's really interesting because I've never won an argument with her. Oh, really? Because she sees it more clearly than I do. And I have to admit like, oh, no.

you actually... She sees the zoom out more clearly. Yeah, and also the granular. And the granular. Everything, yeah. Like, what's the typical argument that you'll have with your wife? What do you argue over? What's the argument that happens again and again?

It's been so long. This we've had a real good argument. Yeah. I mean, just planning the day would be an argument for me because I refuse to. Oh. Matter of fact, we were just doing another interview. She and I have a cookbook and we were doing Terry Gross.

thud and i mean not to flex on you but i just did terry gross and on the way there she wanted to do she wanted to plan like what the weekend was going to be i'm like no i'd like to just enjoy myself in the half hour before i go on with terry because i want to be relaxed and happy yeah before i go on and nothing nothing makes me more tense and anxious than planning that's interesting yeah that makes sense. Are you able to do that with your life? You host a talk show with this so when they turn on the cameras? I've looked out like nobody's business. I am someone who lucked in to having an enormous team of people who pushed me in the right direction at every moment of the day. Someone tucked you in a room half hour before to give you time to think of nothing?

Kind of. I mean, I have to shower and shave and dress. Yeah. And that takes about a half an hour. Okay. And I put on a little music in the shower. Yeah. And I listened to a little music. and I shower and I take my time shave and everything like that and that brings the blood the blood pressure down a little bit from the day of writing and producing

which is a totally other level. Yeah, it's a whole other job. Whole other job, exactly. There's the writing job, there's the producing job. And then there's kind of the show business job like dealing with the network or staff management and stuff like that which is not as a huge part of my job,

but it's not no part of my job. But as our business goes, there are a lot more chaotic ways to live than what I live because I know what I'm going to be I'm going to be at 1697 Broadway at the Ed Sullivan Theater

and I know what time I'm going to be in there in the morning and I know what time my first meeting is and my second meeting is and I know what I do exactly after that and which turn I could do at my sleep and this is what the day the days gets laid out and is packed like peanuts and a Snickers bar

and I don't have to be organized the show is a matrix that gets pressed over the Plato-like flesh of my brain. And it cuts my attention. It cuts my attention into all these little boxes. And I just have to stay upright and get to the next thing. You're really taking the romance out of this.

You know, Mike Nichols had a thing. I'm a huge Mike Nichols fan. He had this thing, which is he never wanted to be an actor because he didn't want to be a baby. His whole thing was like actors get treated like babies. They're placed here, their place here, the place they're a child and that always made sense to me because i was like yeah that's that that's by design because if they don't have the actor in the place that they have them in sure then they're losing

money by the second well you know you're oddly you're the child in your whole thing well you've made me think of so many different things by by first full quoting mike nichols yeah but this is more my favorite mike nichols quotes was from the book something wonderful out of way, which is sort of the first and still one of the best books about the compass and early second city in Chicago Improft Theater, is that one of, I believe one of the chapter titles is, if you were alive, would you laugh at this? And it was, I think he's talking to Paul Shepard. And I think it's, Nichols talking to Shepard. One of the original Compass players. Yeah. And they're watching this rehearsal over and over and over and over and over and

and Nichols turns to Shepard and goes, if you were alive, would you laugh? at this. Yeah. And that's how it feels sometimes after you've worked on a piece of comedy for forever and ever and ever. You're dead to it at a certain point. If you were alive, would you laugh at this?

Yeah, there's no longer any spark or frisson there. It's like hard to recapture that. That's why it's difficult to re-improvise something. Yeah. Because you're inured to what was organically special about it the first time. Oh, absolutely. But so the second thing is you just said baby. You know, actors are babies.

Yeah. John Stewart and I've had many conversations about this. and he puts it in a beautiful way. And he said, the hard thing to understand for you as the person who's on camera, but also for the staff, and it can be frustrating for the people who around you is that it's necessary that you be both the daddy and the baby.

At the same time. Because daddy gets to say we're having steak. But you have to cut up the steak so the baby doesn't choke on it. Yeah. And so that's a lot of the day, is that you get to make a lot of global decisions about what the, like, direction of the show

might be on any given day. And now it's everybody else's job to make sure that you, the person who has to go has the privilege and the, you know, the opportunity to go present that and the responsibility to present whatever you guys did together today out in the world doesn't choke on the ambition

of the guy who made the decision. Oh my gosh. That is very well put. John Stewart often does that. That is what I found. That is what I found. That's what I said. He's smarter than I am.

Well, that's, that's kind of the truism of a lot of these companies, like, you know, Steve Jobs with Apple, for example, like, there was a period of time where he wasn't, he wasn't there anymore. And people were like, what the hell is this company? And they have to figure out, like, who's the, you know, now it's a cook or whatever, whoever, Tim Cook. Now it's Tim Cook. But it's like, but for a period of time, there's like, they had nobody who was that. but it's like that's your that you're the daddy and the baby at your show

and if you weren't no one would be there's nobody there's no one who's gonna fill in for your job you don't have a you don't have a fill in I don't have a permanent guest host no yeah you don't have guest host

no one did that for a long time until Kimmel started doing it because he wanted to take the summers off I was it's funny you should say that about Kimmel because I sat in for Kimmel when he had COVID and it is a certain type of life that you guys have.

It's really packed for, like, so much of the day. And then it's wide open after that, you know, 7 o'clock, 7 o'clock, you can actually you can unplug, you kind of have to unplug because the day is so intense. There's so many decisions. And as my executive producer, Tom Purcell says, when it comes to all these decisions that you're making, like, you're making like maybe 15 an hour that you can't go back on. Yeah. And he says, do not reverse severe tire damage is the sign over Tom's head.

In other words, we made a decision. Let's live with that decision to move forward. That's interesting. We don't, you know. Right, reverse tie. Don't go backwards on those spikes. Yes. I agree answer.

By way. It's thin ice. And by thin ice, we mean at certain points in the pond, the ice is much thinner. And it would be dangerous for you to skate there. Wait, I have a question. Did you ever meet Mike Nichols? I did. I did.

I was at the Kennedy Center Honors. And it was whatever year, Merrill Streep was being honored because she was there being honored. And I had interviewed her before, and I walked by her table to say hi. And I didn't know she was sitting next to Mike Nichols because his back was to me. And she said, oh, Steve, oh, Mike wants to meet you. Oh, my gosh. And he turned around and goes, oh, hello. And he started talking to me about some of the work we were doing at the Colbert.

And I remember the whole time he was talking going, remember this, remember this, remember this, listen to what he's saying. Don't forget what he's saying. Hear what he's saying. You'll never hear this again. What is he saying? Enjoy this. Enjoy this. I have no memory of a single other than, oh, Stephen, that's all I remember of the entire thing. What happened to your memory? I don't know. I don't know. That's just it. I can remember anything. You can tell me like a phone number three years ago and I can tell you, but I could not remember. so meaningfully because you're just a big Mike Nichols fan. Yeah, come on, yes. Do you ever meet Elaine May? No, I've never met Elaine May.

I'd like to, though. I bet she wants to meet you. I don't know about that. I never assume any of that stuff. I'll tell you how bad I am but assuming anybody wants to meet me is that the beginning of the Colbert Report in the first six months, I think,

I was on the Time 100, and I'm at the Time 100 dinner at Columbus Circle. Top 100 people ranked in the world according to intelligence. Exactly. Just briefing the listeners. Ranked according to memory. And so I'm there and a woman comes over and says, I'm here with George Lucas.

Yeah. And I saw George across the room. I could see him. And she pointed and I said, oh, oh, hi, nice to meet you. And she said, George would like to meet you. And I said, George who? Of course. Because it can't even imagine.

I could not imagine that that was the George. that I was looking at was the guy who wanted to meet me. And so I went over and said hi to George. Again, don't remember it. Don't remember it. Do you not remember it? I remember saying hi, but I don't remember. This is a breaking story.

This is breaking news. You don't, you have an extraordinary memory. You blank out essentially compliments and people who you admire. Yes. So you'll forget this whole interview. Every word locked away. When I got the late show, the first person to call me was Letterman. Oh.

And he called me. immediately and he and he was a lovely conversation and I took notes because I knew I wouldn't remember I knew I would I knew I knew I knew I knew it was so difficult for me and I'd talked to Dave a bunch and yeah and and he uh he had always been very gracious to me and it always had a good time I'd been on a show 10 times and though every time was a big deal for me yeah I always it was very important to do a good job for my god are you getting me and so but I but I was taking like little like kind of like shorthand notes as we were talking about just like subject areas, just like that.

And then he was very gracious and very nice. And I hung up the phone and I wrote out everything I could remember of those subjects. And then I gave it to my system. I said, would you please type this up and then just put it in a file for me? So I have it. I've never looked at it, but I have it someplace to go look at. Do you ever feel the ghosts of the Ed Sullivan Theater? I mean, the Beatles and, you know.

No. I mean, it's an honor to be in that space. and I love that. We've restored it to a theater. I don't know if you remember what it used to be like. You used to much more like a TV studio. That's right. But I can understand that

because comedy compression is nice to keep the space tight feels good for me, at least for a TV comedy. But I really wanted to change the way I did my show. The Colbert rapport was very much for the camera because that's the model that I was aping. It was for the camera and the present audience in the room

got to see me do the show for the camera. Now I'm doing the show for the room, and the camera there captures it. It's a different vibe. And I wanted that to change me as a performer because I didn't really know what I was stepping into. And so I had to make, that was one strong decision I wanted to make the beginning

is that I wanted to play to the room. And I started off as a live improvisational, like sketch comedian. Yeah. And I love a room. I love a live theater. Yeah. And so I often drink in the room. I often like in those, if you're,

you know, if you're lucky enough to have a real rolling audience in that night, you've got free time between jokes. Oh, yeah, sure. You know, and I'm not just thinking about what the rhythm is for the next attack, you know, like for the next beat, or especially for changing subjects, I'll take a moment and literally look around this beautiful theater I'm in with these gorgeous digital projections and stained glass built by Hammerstein in 1927 and that beautiful band over there and my dear friends who I've worked with, some of them for almost 20 years. Some of them I'm known for like 35 years who were there. And I just even like literally in between jokes, I go, God, what a lucky guy I am, to have this moment. And that comes to me more, of course, when the show's going great. Sure. And then when the show's not going great,

or you haven't been able to hook up your jumper cables to the audience, which is how I think about it. Beautiful. So there's a flow of current back and forth. Let's hit that and hover. Jumper cables? Want to stay here for a second? That's just a great metaphor.

Yeah, I want to hook up the jumper cables. Well, we talk about that with jokes all the time here. Is this idea of like most of the time with jokes what you have in your mind is pretty funny it's just a matter of like what you're saying hooking up the jumper cable that sometimes is the hard part yes well there has to be

another way that we talk about it sometimes is that I'm the pitcher and the audience is the catcher and I've got to do something fairly early on in the monologue to let them know what kind of pitches I'm throwing I've got to let them know are these all going to be fastballs

or am I just or are we just playing catch do you know what I mean? I mean, we're done here, we're done. Are you a baseball man? No, I'm just saying, like, that's exactly it. Like, we don't even have to talk about anything else. That's exactly, you're exactly right. And sometimes, sometimes at the show is over,

and it felt like I had to fight the urge to muscle the audience. Yes. Which is exactly the wrong thing to do, which is to muscle the audience. Right. You know, paradoxically somehow, when you want to tighten up and muscle the audience, because you feel like you're, you haven't made that connection. You want to kind of like drag them to the field

where you want to dance. You know what I mean? Mixing metaphors, but sure. Exactly. But you, I mean, baseball field. Yeah, sure. I'm like, I don't know why I'm dancing. Dancing, yeah.

But where you want to play catch, you want to drag them to the, where you want to play catch, is that oddly you actually have to relax. Yeah. You actually have to get looser. And that'll allow you to be aware of what their vibrational state is.

And that's what you, you and I talked about this on our, on this podcast last time, which is it took you years to get to that point. Like you used to be when you were in second city touring company and stuff like that, you'd be so nervous. Well, yeah, and I would try to muscle every moment. Yeah.

And often when I've, when the show's over, Tom and I will have a post, there's a post-mortem for like a lot of the editorial level staff. Yeah. But it's always just me and Tom Purcell, my exec, for a few minutes after everybody's left. We just sit there and go, what do you think, whatever, we'll have that moment. And if there was that urge to muscle, will realize, oh, we didn't tell them the way we were going to pitch. Or we didn't set an emotional tone off the top.

And I'm not talking about like, you know, these shows are not confessions. Yeah. Like authenticity is not confession. Yeah. It's not the same thing. But it is important to signal to the audience in some way where are you coming from? Right. Otherwise, you're just reading jokes off a page.

Right. And like, might as well go out there. It's like, I'm not going to play an instrument. I'm just going to read sheet music to you. It's not the same thing. Like technically, you're doing jokes, but you're not, I'm not, I mean, I used to say what we do for a living is we harvest laughter. Yeah. We go, we plant ideas and then we get the laughter from planting that idea, like the setup and the joke.

And then you harvest it. And that's why everybody in the building is so important to getting that harvest to market of the show. Like all the technical aspects of the show are just as important. Or else why did we grow all this laughter? That's right. And I think that's a little off. actually. Now, I'm, I really am there to be with the audience and that it's really there for community. Because the show can be great, even if it isn't, great's a strong word. It can be a really

good show, even if it's not pound for pound the funniest show we've done, if I really feel that connection with the audience. And that's really about community. Like they, they, and boy, that's such a vague word community, but I don't have another, I don't have a bet, communion. We are in communion with each other. Right. And therein lies like what it took me years to understand that as a comedian that, oh no, it's actually just about connecting to the people right in front of you. And that's the whole thing. And that's what everything. And you have to add to that the craft you've put into being able to. No, of course. Yeah. To do the thing well enough that you can make the connection. Yeah. And that there's a reason even to to be communicating, but, uh, or something to say. But it is similar to

being a pastor, being a teacher, anything where you're connecting a group of people, stand up, hosting a talk show. It's all of the same kind of energy. When the Please Don't Destroy guys from SNL came on this podcast, we're like, let's do something. And then recently we just started doing improv at UCB. We do one day and month. Would you come improvise or are you done with it? I love it. I mean, I would like to improvise someplace where no one knows who I am.

I don't want to have anyone's expectations of what I'm going to do. I just want to go improvise. We always say that to the audience members, we come out, short notice. We do like 24 hours notes. It's a hundred-something people in the room. It's the black box. And we just go like, we don't do this a lot. We don't improvise a lot.

And so whatever happens tonight, if you write it on social media, just write. It was the best improv show we've ever seen. And they do. Like, it's a running joke. That's great. So who's doing it? It's me and the Please Don't Destroy guys, which is Ben Marshall and John Higgins and Martin Hurley.

Well, I've known John Higgins since he was about four. We grew up down to think With our like He told me He told me that you taught him Sunday school Yeah That's crazy So that's what the problem is

You gotta come play with us though It's it's we die laughing I mean we are breaking in every scene I mean there's nothing better Yeah There's absolutely nothing better Admittedly it's been a long time And I think there's an athleticism to it

That you can lose your backhand Yeah no I agree but you have been, you improvise every day. The guest is improvised and sometimes like things come here and there, but that's more like riffing. That's not the same thing as improvising. As doing object work and scene work and characters. Right.

I mean, the guest is close to improvising because you're having to listen and, you know, at an ad to and draw out from the other person and the other person is the most important person on stage and stuff like that. That's right. All that's really key and that helps with that at best, to at best the conversation has nothing to do with the card it's just what's going on with that person and the best ones i've never i never look at it and you can't believe that the time

flew the way it did but i mean creating scenes like that's a great thing when you walk off stage and you have no idea why it was as it was as it was and you don't know whose idea was what that's the key when you walk off and go like that was great whose idea was that or people might ask and we'll go no idea no and it's kind of what's beautiful about improv it's kind of no one's idea. It's kind of taking from the universe and spitting it out. Well, that's my first person I'd like studied

in any improv with was Dell Close. And a lot of people had a guru relationship to him. Some people, not a lot, but some people did. I never did. I might not have deserved it. But I also don't get guru with people. You don't know what I mean? Like I...

You don't need to take to mentors that way? No, I probably when I was younger I was too emotionally distant to actually allow myself to join the cult and also too much of a skeptic to get involved in the cult even though some part of myself, the part whose father died when he was young was like

you be my daddy. It was I'm sure in there but I never acted on it. That's a weird aside to say, or rather a fitting aside to say he used to say you're not improvising you're just letting the universe channel through you if you just open up all your senses. That's it. Your job is to open up all

the stops on the organ. That's it. And so that you so it can just flow through you and he would take out his little pentagram and put it on his chest before he performed because he said the stage was a sacred space and it is i mean showstoppers stephen colbert throwing showstop and pitches all day all right so this is the this is a slow round what is uh do you have a song that makes you cry that doesn't make me cry, I will, like, you know, when I was a kid, you know, Cat's Cradle, you know, Harry Chapin

in an absolute second. Yeah. Because it just brings up parents' child relationship. Yeah, dead dad, you know, that dead dead. I remember, like, it came out in 74, I think, or 75. Yeah. My parents, I mean, my dad and my brothers died in 1974.

So there's that, but I mean, my kids, they'll go, they'll turn to every go like, oh my God, is he crying? And here's what I find about crying. This is what I find about crying is that I've given in to the fact that I cry. Okay, yes. Do you know what I mean? Like, I'm trying to like, okay, fine.

And it's just like a source like any of the like, pretend you weren't a crying person? No, no, I mean, kind of, aren't you like taught to not do that? Sure. You're taught, especially as a man, you're not supposed to cry. Yeah. And so I was very good at like closing the door and like punching a wall instead. Yeah. And it's not like I closed the door and cried.

I closed the door. and then also didn't cry, but at least the struggle I would do privately. Sure. But what was great is having kids, and, like, if I would be talking about something that would get me close, like, where I have to take a breath

and, like, look into the distance and try to think about, like, the stitch pattern on that curtain so I could think about something other than crying. You know what I mean? Like, I would place my focus on something else in order to maintain. Absolutely.

But my kids quickly figured out all those games. Oh, interesting. And so, or like, what my silence would mean. And so even like, when they were pretty young, they would, like, crawl, like, they would, like, come around me and go, is he going to cry? Oh, my God. Is he going to cry? And that would just make me laugh. That is so funny.

That would just make me laugh that they would, that they would tag me like that. But I came to a realization not that long ago that the thing I'm crying about is not because I'm sad. As I'm crying because it tends to be something I'm talking about is so beautiful. Yeah. despite how sad the world is. And it's that tension between the beautiful thing. And it really occurred to me when I was in San Ramida-Provence a couple summers ago.

We went to the institution where Van Gogh ended his life. Or he spent the end of his life there. And he painted many beautiful things while he was in Provence in San Ramirez-Provence. And I think one of the things he painted there was Starry Night. And I come around a corner, and they got reproductions of everything that he did there. And I came around the corner,

and there was Starry Night. And I burst into tears when I saw it. And what the hell is that about? Why are you crying? Because you looked at Starry Night. Now, what I've done is you've taken like a several kilometer. And I'm going to say kilometer because we're talking about France here. Don't get on me, American.

I respect that. A couple of kilometer walk through San Ramirez-Provence to the institution, which was run, I think, by the sisters of charity or something. And you're reading along the way these plaques about what was his life like and what was his brother Theo doing first? him and why did he end up here and stuff like that and you and the last thing you end up you go through the gates and this beautiful i'm sure was kind of bleak at the time but a very beautiful place and you and i saw starry night and i burst into tears and i went oh that's what it is it suddenly

came to his revelation is that the thing that revelation is the thing that actually makes me cry is something beautiful yeah not something sad yeah and that that's the commonality is when i'm trying to quote a song for instance right and often when i'm trying to quote a song for instance right and often when I'm trying to quote a song or quote a poem or something like that it'll it'll tap me on the shoulder and punch me in the face and I didn't expect it right because I was I'm caught short by something beautiful yeah and the tension between you know the sad and how sad or tragic the world can be and this beautiful thing that exists despite that or maybe even because of it that comes out of it, there's an ecstatic tension between those two points.

Yeah. And the energy has to be released some way. And for me, it's crying. So, yeah, sometimes I cry at songs. So next little round question, what's the best piece of advice someone's giving you that you've used? Check to make sure the plug is in. That's a great one.

Because I like to boat. I like to go out on the water. Yeah. Make sure before you put that boat in, the plug is in. Because there's a plug to drain. And often, if it's not a huge boat, the little will be a plug. You have to take out to drain the boat

in case you had water come over at the gunnels. And so you got water in your boat. So you pull the plug at the end of the day, especially when you're cleaning it. Yeah. Or else the boat will fill up with the water that you're cleaning the boat with. But you have to remember to put that plug back in.

Wow. And that's a metaphor for a lot. Yes. Is that before you do the... The obvious thing. Yeah. Do this. Make sure you've done the small, simple.

Yeah, the small thing. The small thing that is so small and simple that, for instance, did you learn your lines for this show that you've been cast in? I literally have shown up things and I went, oh, fuck, I didn't learn my lines. I was very excited about doing the part. I have an idea for the character.

But I went, oh, right, I've been working in front of Prompter for 20 years. I have to learn my lines. Which is so basic. Well, that's what, inside the actor's studio, the Al Pacino once. What's your best advice for young actors? Know your lines!

Yes. They're used backstage at Second City. There used to be all this, you know, things that people said that somebody thought was worth remembering. That was written on the back wall of Second City. Unfortunately, they got, they renovated and somebody accidentally painted over a lot of it because it was like, you know, it was 50 years of advice from some of the best comedians, you know. And but one of the things that I remember, which I don't know if it's still there, if it got painted over, but it said, the shortest distance between two points is learn your lines. that's good I like that

what is the thing people what's your people's favorite and least favorite thing about you people that I know people I don't know people that I know oh I think I think I'm an okay listener

I think I'll sit and I want to hear how you are and I mean it for the most part I mean I don't mean I don't ever mean it but I try to take the time to actually know how you are, I suppose. And it's cool if we cry together. Oh. You know?

I'm fine with that. Sweet. I think that the people least like about me. I would say that probably people who watch the show or watch the work that I do probably think I'm a little big for my pants making jokes about subjects that they would probably, why don't you shut up and make jokes?

I think that might be that. Right. Like a little, like, you know, aren't you a little self-important to make jokes about democracy or whatever, you know, whatever. And that's a valid response. I got nothing to say about that. I mean, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I don't have some special insight to any of this stuff.

It's just, that's the conversation that's going on right now. Right. Like, that has been the conversation for a decade now. Yes. And we are a shadow of the news. And so that's what people are talking about all day. That's the raw material for the jokes at the end of the day. Because we're talking about the national conversation.

I'd like to not talk about that stuff. So I don't have a problem with it. And if people don't like that, I don't like that. I don't like that they don't like that. You know what I mean? But it's not kind of my job. It's not my problem because I'm doing my job. It's such an interesting.

But I can understand why they wouldn't. I don't have a problem with people disliking that. That's totally a valid response. Oh, I follow that. I always marvel at this bygone era that people talk about of like Johnny Carson. hosting the Tonight Show in the 80s when I was growing up and not mentioning politics because it feels like as a comedian, you have to talk about what's happening

to acknowledge the humor. Well, I'll say this, I think that politics has become a larger part of sort of our daily conversation than when I was younger. I mean, in 1960s, it was certainly a big deal, but I don't know, seven in the 80s, as much as there was going on with like a round control, or the hostage crisis crisis or anything like that. I mean, Johnny made jokes about the Iran-Contra.

Johnny made jokes about the hostage crisis. It just wasn't a big part of the national conversation. There were times we didn't think about politics. Right. And that changed, I think, I don't really know. I would say probably around 9-11. I think 9-11 might have changed what the national focus is because it became more important.

It became more, there were more stakes, it seemed like. Yeah. And so it became a bigger part of the conversation. And 24-hour news made it con. And 24 hours a day, you could put your mouth around that carbon monoxide hose of the news cycle. Yeah. And just suck the fumes because they had to, because the cable news has to burn the tires of the news 24 hours a day to keep the lights on. There's not, and so much of it is just opinion.

And opinion really ends up being a panel show. and the panel show ends up be about fighting and that conflict ends up being the thing that they're selling. And so the nation becomes increasingly divided and so it becomes a bigger part of the conversational playing field. Yeah.

So. Do you have a favorite joke joke? What do you mean? Like a guy walks into a bar joke? Yeah. Anything like that? Do you know my favorite knock-knock joke? No.

Say knock-knock. Knock-knock. Who's there? Who's there who? No, it's just, it pimps. the other guy you wait wait what is it wait can we do it again

sure you want to hear my favorite knock knock knock knock yes say knock knock knock knock knock who's there it's just forced me to just come up with a knock knock joke that's what I like that's what I like about it can you remember an inauthentic version of yourself

a million of them yeah sure sure the nervous me is the most inauthentic version of oh interesting oh yeah because is the nervous, or rather when I'm nervous, not that I'm nervous, nervous is authentic, but when I'm nervous, I can sometimes construct a face for the faces that we meet.

Like, you know, I try to come up with something that I think might be appealing to the person I'm talking to. Yeah, yeah. It doesn't happen to me as much anymore when I was younger and I get starstruck. Sure. Yeah, I don't starstrike that much anymore. Well, who were you most starstruck of from?

I feel like it must have been in your 20s, it must have been shocking because you were on the Daily Show, right? Or your early 30s? You're so sweet to think that I was on the daily show in my 20s. In your 30s? I love you, Mike. Martin from American Magazine, and of course, from the DeCastry for Culture and Education at the Vatican, he said, hey, do you want to meet the Pope? Because the Pope wants to meet some comedians. Would you help me put together a list? And I was like, yeah, sure. But it really felt like we were going to hang with the Pope. And then when Gaffigan called me and conveyed it to me, it was very similar. It's like, no, he wants to speak with us. I'm like, you sure? He's like, I think so. I don't know. And it really sounded like 10 of us.

Yeah, it did sound like 10 of us. Because it said, he wants, could you have me to go, I need a list of 10 comedians to recommend. Oh my gosh. And so it sounded like there were going to be 10 of us. And I imagine it would be short. Yeah. I imagine it would be some little, sort of little room in apostolic apartments

or some of the papal apartments. And we would sit there and maybe we'd have a cup of tea. He would ask us a few polite questions. We would talk a little bit of a comedy and there would be a photograph. This is what the Pope said to us. He said, I'm reminded, do you remember this? I'm reminded of the story in the book of Genesis when God promised Abraham

that within a year he would have a son he and his wife Sarah were old and childless I've been reading this on stage lately to see if there's jokes and I look at the audience ago she was 23 and then Sarah said God has made laughter for me everyone who hears this will laugh over me that is why they named their son Isaac which means he laughs and then I wrote at this point I thought

it's possible the Pope just opened a PDF of the Bible and did a command F on the word laugh this wasn't adding up for me and he said this thing where he goes according to the Bible at the beginning of the world while everything was being created

divine wisdom practiced your form of art for the benefit of none other than God himself the first spectator of history divine wisdom practiced your art for none other than God himself so divine wisdom

being something that is of God but separate from him in that moment and entertaining God? Apparently. Wow. I mean, that's where I, that's where the whole religious thing lose me. And I, and I went the religious thing. But it's where like, I've heard a lot about this religious thing. About my, but where my Catholicism believes me is, is that the spectator of history concept, the God being the God is a spectator of history. Yes. Right. So it's like, I, I have this joke that I sometimes tell where, where I go, that's the thing that freaks me out from

Catholic school that's always stuck with me is when you're a kid, they go, God, where I went to Catholic school, they said, God is watching you at all times. And so I just thought he was, I didn't think of him as an entity. Or, you know, I thought of him as just a person just tailing me in a Chevy Malibu. Like, what's Mike Briggily out to? Oh, he's hiding porn in the forest. I'm going to make sure he doesn't have a girlfriend until he's 20.

And that prophecy came true. So maybe there is a guy. 20 is not bad. Yeah, exactly. But then, and then it stuck with me. When I was 15, I started masturbating. I thought he was watching me do that, too. So I would sort of cheat to the camera.

Go on. And I would cheat to the camera like, go on, Mike. Because I wanted to think if he was watching the monitor, he would go, I've seen a lot of 15-year-old's masturbate, but this kid's good. I think he might go pro. It's a gift. It's a gift. But anyway, so that's sort of, my question is, of the Pope's what he said,

what struck you as funny or worth talking about comedically? I mean, being able to make like laughing at God, that's kind of fun. I like that. Not like making jokes about God. He said, is it okay to laugh at God? Laugh at God.

Yeah. Wow. Not laugh with God. I thought that was really meaningful. That distinction, I'm not sure, means the same thing in Italiano. But that was interesting to me. I found, I will say about Pope Francis, and if people are interested in this even remotely,

there is a Vimbender's documentary about Pope Francis that I think is beautifully directed and really give me a sense of like that this guy is, as far as I understand it, really doing the work, going to war-torn countries and spending time with children and hospitals. I've been struck with that for his entire papacy, which started right when I was starting the late show.

He's been willing to do things that the curate. doesn't like that he's been he's been able to buck um not religious traditions but papal traditions which are not the same thing right or that or vatican traditions or this sort of the the the things that grow on the catholic church over centuries i've always thought of the catholic church as being like um of an oyster bank yeah and i grew up in the coast of south carolina where you could just go out the right time of year you can go out with your boat and you can just chop the oysters right off the bank and they're clusters. They're not singles.

Like you might get it like at a nice restaurant or something like that. It's a cluster of oysters and they've grown on top of each other over the years because those little oyster polyps are looking for any place to land that might be hard and another oyster shell is a great place to land. Yeah. And so you bring them back and you steam them and you hose them off and you hose them off and you hose them off and you steam them and you put them on a table and you take a knife and a glove so you don't cut your hand and you work your way through that cluster of oysters.

and some of them are filled with mud and you knock those off and some of them might have like a crab living inside of them and some of them have got this beautiful oyster meat in it and I think of the Catholic Church is this bank of

theology and tradition you know the ongoing revelations the church calls it that is all grown on top of each other and I think if you can respectfully and curiously and in pursuit of your faith to work your way through that.

I don't think you always have to eat the mud. I think you can hold out for the oyster. And there are things in the church that I don't want to eat. But I don't think that means you're rejecting the faith itself. The last thing we do is working out for a cause where we donate to an organization

that you think does a good job and then we link in the show notes and encourage others to contribute. I'm such an enormous fan of what Jose Andres and World Central Kitchen is doing. Incredible. Both in Ukraine and in Gaza right now,

that I really wish to support them. Also, Radio Lollipop is an amazing organization. I know you're not asking me for more than one, but Radio Lollipop is for kids often in terminal wards or cancer wards. And it basically is entertainment for those kids who have to spend so much time, especially in their long-term cancer care

or something like that in the hospital. and I'm a huge fan of radio lollip. Gosh, well, we'll contribute to both of those. And we will link in the show notes. Stephen, it is such an honor to speak with you and to have you at the studio. It's so fun. It just gives me so much joy to talk to you

every time we get a chance to do it and we don't have to do it with a recording device next time. We could just be with each other. Yeah, let's just do a full hang. Do a family hang. Oh, fam hang. Yeah, family hang. That sounds good.

I did see you at the U.S. Open. That's true. We kind of hung with a fan. Fancy people. Yeah, we could go to the next game? Hmm. No? Oh, my God.

Working it out because it's not done. Working it out because there's no... That's going to do it for another episode of working it out. That is one of my absolute favorite episodes. You can follow Stephen Colbert on Instagram at Stephen at home. Stephen with a pH. You can watch the full video of this episode on. our YouTube channel at Mike Barbiglia,

and you can subscribe while you're on there. Check out berbiggs.com to sign up for the mailing list and be the first to know about my upcoming shows. Our producers of working it out are myself along with Peter Salomon, Joseph Barbiglia, and Mabel Lewis, associate producer Gary Simons, sound mix by Ben Cruz, supervising engineer, Kate Balinski. Special thanks to Jack Antonoff and bleachers for their music.

Special thanks, as always, to my wife, the poet J. Hope Stein, and our daughter, Una, who built the original radio for Meta Pillows. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. If you enjoy the show, please rate us and review us on Apple Podcasts. That really helps us out. It helps people find the show.

And if you like one of the shows, you know, we have about 150 episodes since 2020, and they are all free. There's no paywall. We've had some incredible guests. Tig Natarro and David Sedaris and Roy Wood Jr. And so many folks, check our back catalog and then comment on Apple Podcasts,

which one is your favorite? And that way people will know. what a good entry point is for them. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. Tell your friends, tell your enemies. Let's say you're in an Uber with your significant other and they want to start planning the rest of the day or the week. And that person's not your enemy, but maybe there's a little friction.

I say, you don't argue. You just say, I love you. I want to plan. I want to plan with you. But first, let's share these earbuds and listen to Stephen Colbert on Mike Berbigley is Working at Out podcast because nothing gets me in the planning mood more than two creatives working things out. Thanks, everybody.

We'll see you next time.