Million Dollaz Worth Of Game - WHERE'S WALLO: CHANCE THE RAPPER

Episode Date: October 15, 2025

WHERE'S WALLO: CHANCE THE RAPPERYou can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/mworthofgame

Hey, million dollars worth of game listeners. You can find every episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Right. Welcome to the episode of Where's Wallo. I'm here with Chance the Rapper, Grammy Award winner, philanthropist, entrepreneur. Listen, Starlight is out right now. Listen, and let me just say this.

The light is everywhere. My fault. I don't want to f-it-it-it-it. Starline. But it's okay because the light is a big part of it. I call it a lot. You know what I'm saying? I just want to get too far.

Listen, he ain't want to get too far, but listen. At the end of the day, it's like. this we're gonna take it all way back we want to take it to back before you even knew who this guy was because a lot of y'all know he from winning the grammy right y'all y'all you know now he's so far away from that day because you know so much than happened in life like i think a lot of people didn't understand that once we've seen him on the grammy stage that after that after the grammy's over after the night the party's over he got to go back to being a human being and living life the regular things he got to eat he got to live he got to love he got to hurt

he got to cry you got to he got to celebrate all this type of stuff goes on but how do we even get to become a chance to rapper man that's a good question i feel like i was always into uh was expression like like i did poetry as a kid i used to dance like i used to you know Just be a writer and like a creative kid. I ain't know how to paint, but I knew how to do like basically everything else. And, uh, and I think rap was always to me, you know, I grew up in Chicago. So like Lupe, Kanye, you feel me, common, um, twister, do or die. Like, it was a lot of, it's a lot of like, you know, I think the people that we admired the most as kids, the cool kids.

I can't even forget the cool kids. like that's when I was in high school. That was a, that was like the most expressive and like cool and like just futuristic to me way of like of communicating. And so I just threw like when I was in high school, I think my freshman year I put out my first mixtape. It wasn't like it's not available online and shit that, but I was burning CDs and making music since I was a freshman at high school. and putting on shows at my school and just like, you know, being the rapper. And I feel like it just, it's been the same, just new episodes and different seasons since then. Now, you do that.

And then after that, what happened to get you to on that Grammy stage after that, you know, because it's like, you know, I don't think people understand that you got to go buy some blank CDs. You got to take them back to your people, crib. like you had to do like be a human you had to it was it was no just on your phone yeah and you know if he had a tower did he had a 10 cd tower you got one CD be the one master the rest you burn then you had to take him you had to write your name on it because you ain't had no labeler yeah go hand-a-hand and then now life-changing there's really a lot of it I owe to my dad you know my dad uh man he did so much like we was just talking about the other day like me and my brother

and my dad would be burning CDs all night until it got too late and he'll let us go to sleep and he would stay up throughout the night burning the rest of the CDs so we'll have two towers like by the morning that we woke up and like you said we had packaged them up he organized us and was the one that told me and my friends too like you know people that like Vic Mensa was out there with us too like you know what I'm saying a lot of my friends he had sent us to other high schools and we'd be standing in front and I remember the first show that I ever sold out was Reggie's Rock Club in Chicago on 22nd. And it was like that was the first time I felt stardom was, you know what I'm saying?

It was like being in front of my kids my age, you know what I'm saying? Like this was a venue though that you go and see, not to say we wasn't a real act, but this is where you go see real, you know, artists, hip hop artists that's touring through Chicago and us selling that out was like the first time that I really felt like things was real and I think from there I always had like a mind state of like you know we could throw the shows we could sell the tickets we could sell the t-shirts we can you know what I'm saying like it was a I think something that just gave me not pride but what's the word like it just gave me the encouragement

yeah the fuel to be like oh we could just keep going And I think, you know, acid rap being as big as it was and not being eligible for a Grammy gave me more fuel to be like, I'm a stick by my, you know, what I believe to be the right way. Like, it doesn't, things don't have to be for sale to be considered art or eligible in spaces. And so held that through coloring book and, you know, by then streaming, which was always my way of getting out music. Because like you said, like this, when I first, first started, it was just CDs, but, you know, streaming before it was like an Apple music or a title or any of that stuff, you had audio Mac, you had SoundCloud, YouTube, obviously. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Dad Piff, my mixtapes, like there were spaces where you could just put your music up and people from all over the world could access it.

And after, after, like, by the time coloring book came out, you know, all these other people were, you know, starting their own business in the streaming world, like Apple, like title. And I think that really, like, opened up the space for all artists to be able to, like, you know, to become eligible. And I think really what got me to the Grammy stage above everything was the connection that I, like, retained with fans from being the person that was willing to you know what I'm saying like it takes a lot to stand up in front of someone and try and pass out CDs or sell tickets and shit like and so once I got that you know what I'm saying that understanding of myself and confidence in myself to be able to do that

that carries over to the stage that carries over to like you know to all my interactions with people and I think the fans obviously the music was good too But, like, that personal interaction, I feel like that galvanized people to be like, this is our person. Like, we're going to go hard for a chance. And, you know, coloring book, you know, it wasn't the, it wasn't number one on the Billboard or none, but it was like, it made an impact when it came out. And I think because it was, you know, the same kind of music true to my faith, you know what I'm saying, that same, you know, connection to the fans and the even as to be like, I'm going to go and. perform as much as i can i'm gonna go and do the radio as much as i can i'm gonna use my body

physically to be where i could be and be you know connected to people that like kept that wave going so i feel like it's like it's a lot of steps to the grammy stage between me like you know i'm saying i guess you know first first deciding i want to be a rapper which i guess i decided probably when I was like in I'm going to say seventh grade to be on a Grammy stage at 23 years old but I think like

all of those little steps in between are the same step as just in different spaces in my life, you know what I'm saying? But listen, you said something very important. You said yeah because you know asset rap and getting knowledge for the Grammy back

like you came out with the whole thing like I'm going to I'm going for the Grammy with this. That's the That was, in that early stage, you ended up on set. I feel like everybody that's a rapper has, like, certain things. I was just saying this to my friends the other day. Like, everybody that's a rapper has their own thing or things that they feel like is their measurement of success. And it might be different for other people.

So, like, for me, when I was a kid, I had a video cassette recording that my big cousin gave me of MC Hammer on Saturday Night Live where he was doing double duty. So he was the performer artist, but he was also the host. so he's in all the sketches. So I think for me, since I was a kid, I wanted to be on SNL. That's not necessarily every other rapper is major. SNL is major, though. But it's like, but, you know, I feel the same way about Wiling Out. So when I was in seventh grade, Wile and Out came out.

It had Kevin Hart, it had Kanye West, it had, you know, all these crazy guests. Since I was a kid, I always wanted to be on Wild and Out. So you see, once I get opportunities of those sorts, I jump at that because that's just what I'm into. And that's what I think of as success. So the Grammys, it's like, Lauren Hill, Kanye West, Outcast, M&M, like all these crazy performances that I used to see sitting up on Sunday night with my mom, it's like, I remit, like, that's something that you carry. So it was like from a kid, yeah, always, it's not like, I'm not saying like I was like, I'm owed these Grammys, but it was like, that's what I think of as like, you know what I'm saying, the top tier. There's a lot of rappers that don't think of it that way.

They never had no connection to the Grammys as a means of starting. It don't mean they don't respect the institution, but it's not necessarily. They might have been like, oh, I can't wait to be on this show or to do a concert here or to be on this magazine or to do a collaboration with this, you know, fashion designer or whatever. Like, people just got their own things that become more attainable because those spaces, you know what I'm saying, not to sound the wrong way, but they need you. They need artists. They need people that are like making excellent music to represent them in those spaces. So it's like it becomes a tradeoff and shit. But like, yeah, since I was a little kid, I was watching the Grammys, like, one day I want to be on there because it's like, it's the Grammys.

How did it feel when it happened? How did it feel when they called your name? How did it feel when you seen color and book pop up on the screen? And it's like, yo, come down here and get this hardware. It felt it was, it's a unmatched feeling, I feel like, because it's like I said, it's something that I was. watched since I was a kid to be in those spaces and to be, you know, um, acknowledged for my music and not have to, you know what I'm saying, conform and to be, you know, I think also like I didn't expect to win three Grammys, like, you know what I'm saying? I was hoping to just to,

I was happy to just be nominated, you know what I'm saying? That's really like, you got to understand this also like the Grammys propels you forward like it is another level it is a you know what I'm saying it's an award and it's like a but it's like after it like I was able to like I could have all the the stuff that we did in the Chicago public school system like that came because the governor reached out to me after on the Grammy's and I was like oh well let's talk about this you know what I'm saying so like I got positioned in a lot of great spaces because of the visibility that just comes with it. It makes people be like, oh, what is this? Like, oh, who won? You know what I'm saying? And then they get to perform. Because when I get a mic, like, I do what

I do. So to get to be on the stage and perform, that was, that was a win just in itself. Like, I was already thinking about that the whole time going into it. And then, you know, I won the first one in the, you know that? Like, because everything's not televised. So like some, half of it, not half of it. Some awards, they don't show. You like in a whole other space. So I won the first one Jimmy Jam gave to me and I was like just with my friends. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Yeah. How did it feel they had Jimmy Jam and did, like his impact on culture. Michael Jackson, Janet Jackson, everybody, Prince. Like, he did stuff for everybody. Like, how did you, like, Jimmy is like, how did you deal with that? It felt surreal. And he was

excited. Like, that's the other thing. It's like, it's so real. It looks a certain way on TV. But when you in there, it just looks like you just in a room. Like, anybody, you're surrounded by people way more famous than you or whatever. You know what I'm saying? Like, just feel. It felt different. And I feel like when he called my name, when Taraji called my name, like, these are people that, you know, like, and they like, you know what I'm saying? Like, they excited for me. You know what I'm saying? That's like, it's just like an unmatched feeling.

And, you know what I'm saying? Like, I was able to give glory to God and be, you know what I'm saying? like standing on again something I didn't conform to in terms of how I put it out or what I put into it like it's real music and a real documentation of my life and where I was in that moment so like I said that's to me that's the highest honor and the um you know what I'm saying like the the things that come after it like are everything is a higher level because of just the level of like, I don't know, that's just important. I don't know a better word to say.

But how do you see what I find so impressive is how you go so far forward, but you're still able to look back? Because when the governor called you, you say, yeah, we could do this, but I want to do this for them schools. When most people, you know, they're just like, I made it. I'm out. Like, why is it so important to you? to look back no matter how far ahead you get. Why was that so important to you? I think that's just how I was raised.

That's just what I was always taught was like, first of all, all black people as cousins, first of all. Second of all, I have an understanding of how schools is funded just from being like present-minded and like what's going on in our in our city politically and just historically it don't even got to be at a current like it's always been like that so I'm seeing that my neighborhood high school gets a certain thing but the schools in when that or when that could get another thing and I'm like and I'm noticing that all the conversations are around the budget but not necessarily

necessarily how the schools is funded and so when I got my in to be able to like highlight that it it gave me the perfect position and also to like support the schools and to be you know to be in the schools like that was like the most important thing for me was to like not to just give away some money to some kids but to be able to go in there and check in on them periodically to do stuff that specifically bell to bell so it's like not just some after school football team or something you know what I'm saying like all of these things matter but like I have specific like this past year we did trade school specifically but I couldn't do that if I wasn't like

in the meetings and in the trenches like you know what I'm saying and so I think I think of everything as a tool like um my dad used to talk about this dream that he had where where you wake up in a room there's a monster but there's a tool in it that he uses to get past it and then he goes into the next room but to go into the next room he's got to leave that tool behind but when he gets in the next room there's a tool set for him to defeat the next monster

on and on and on and so it's like I'm constantly getting new tools and resources to go forward like it's not like the I don't think of the Grammys as a you know what I'm saying or anything that I get as you know what I'm saying

the end it's just like it's the tool to get to the next room. Now, this is what I also find impressive. So you win three Grammys. You're independent, real independent. You're independent artists. So after that, every brand want to do something with you. So that's financing.

But you got record labels offering you your own states. Do you want Nevada or do you want South Dakota? We can't give you the whole California, but we might get you northern California. Do you want Oregon? Do you want Maine? These companies is coming at you, offering you. What's the biggest offer you ever got? You know, we got to see the company?

The biggest record, I had an $8 million offer, but this is before Cullen Book came out. To be honest, I didn't. From asset rat. Yeah. You had $8 million? Yeah. Okay. What's crazy is I didn't really get as many offers.

I got more like publishing deal offers after Coney Book came out, but like the recording deal offers, like, I really didn't get none. I never really haven't thought about that until you just said it right now. But like a lot of the offers that I was getting was after Asset Rap came out. So I was getting offers after my first mixtape came out. It was called 10 Day about me being suspended from high school, right? That's 2012. After that came out, and it's not just because of the day. That was the one you was making the DVD for it.

Yeah. 10 day so when 10 day came out right before it came out and and like a few weeks after it came out I was touring with Donald Glover so Chavis Gambino I'm his opening you know what I'm saying it's a major like that that that pushed it super like that that put me in a whole bunch of different markets different rooms I could do things that he couldn't do I could sit outside with the CDs and sign them for people and that but with everybody so like I'm game fans and traction off of that. And then also 2012 is when Keith blew up. So then MTV came to Chicago and did a whole documentary on the Chicago scene. And I'm in a couple of like seconds

of a couple of episodes like behind Vick and shit. But when they went to Chicago, a bunch of labels went to Chicago. So I started meeting with different label heads. Not label heads, but like people that worked at different labels. And just so. And yeah. And they, they was like invited me out to New York and to L.A. So then I'm using those trips to go like shoot. my first music video for ASRA for this video called Juice and like shooting other stuff. So I'm using everything as a tool when they try out, when they find me out here, I'm going to go connect with this producer. I'm going to go meet with these other people.

And, and so I started getting a whole lot of label deals after, like in the fall after 10 day came out. And then I basically told them to stop sending me deals because it was costing money that I didn't have for this random employer to read, just to read. send it back. You know, you get charged every time they, like, even read some shit. So they said you, how many deals he sent you? Was any of the deals interesting? I mean, it was interesting, but they were terrible deals. I didn't understand as much as I understand now. But, like, they would be, like, uh, three album deals with three options for $200,000. So it's like,

and, uh, and so basically, I got to make these three albums with no, like, period of time set for it, just like three albums. So, They could tell me it takes, it's going to be six years before I get released those three albums, right? And then I have $200,000 to make those three albums. And then an option that's up to them if they want to, if they want to keep me for another three albums at the same rate, or a slight increase depending on what they want. Or within those three albums, I could ask for more money, but then I end up owning them, you know what I'm saying, and additional monies outside of recouping that $200,000. So I didn't understand it on that level at the time, but at the time, that looked interesting to me because it's like 200 grand. You know what I'm saying?

So that was at the time between 10 day and ASRAAP. After ASRAP came out was when I started getting more crazy deals. And I ended up doing another project independently under a different name with this band called Donnie Trump in the Social Experiment, this project called SURF. and because Asher Rap Loop I was able to get hell of features on it so I had like Jay Coles on there Big Sean Erica Badu, Buster Rhymes

fucking like who else is I don't know tons of people like it's actually crazy and um and I and I put that out for free too and at that time you know what I'm saying another tool

like because that project was my follow up to Asherap Apple had interest in working with me. And I was able to get them to put the project out for free. This was the first time that, you know what I'm saying? There was that other thing that, uh, with YouTube where YouTube like they just put it on their phone. This one wasn't just put on your phone, but it was like if you went to the Apple store, this is the first project that was for free because that was also my thing was like because my shit like asset rap and Intende was only on

streaming services, I'm like my shit is for free for anything. So I burn CDs, give them out for free, or I, you know what I'm saying, put it on YouTube or SoundCloud or whatever for free. But I made that relationship with Apple when I did that free project. And so when they came to me and were talking to me about doing the Apple Music. It was perfect because I already had a relationship in the building. They had already seen me do a free project so they knew that I was like a person that basically was down with streaming. Like, streaming at that time for most artists, and rightfully so, was looked at weird because it's like, why would I put out my music to people where they don't have to buy it

from me, where they could just stream it? So they looked at the situation and the fans and how people engaged with my music and was like, we want to do an exclusive with you. And this was like at a time when they was like, that was like a big deal. Like projects used to come out exclusively, you know what I'm saying? Frank and a lot of stuff on titles. was exclusive in back in the day but yeah I did mine on there

and I feel like that kind of like ushered in stream as like a like a as like a viable way for to get music

it's like we could just like I don't know how many people bought subscriptions to Apple just to get my Apple but it was like

that was like the beginning of that era and it's kind of crazy to see how much shit changed since then how do you acid rap come out you're doing good for yourself at the time

I can say are you still struggling struggling up hell no I'm not so when ass rap comes out I was saying I'm kind of struggling but I'm like I don't want to ever paint it like I didn't have somewhere to stay like I didn't say you got somewhere to stay but it's like I wasn't making a lot of money no I when ass rap came out I went on tour with Mac Miller and I was not making a lot of money but I was making I was basically in that case

and most of the tours that year, I was paying to be on tour. But once that same year, in the fall, I went on my first headliner tour. So I was the main act and just went and played like, you know, 500 to 800 cap rooms, but I was selling a bit of shit out. And after that, like, I think I made, like, I made a lot money on that tour, like hundreds of thousands of dollars. All right, so, but it come out, asset rap come out. This is what I'm trying to say.

As a rate come out. A label come to you, offer you $8 million. not that same year. No, I don't want to confuse that. It's not the same year, but this is like... But I'm talking about after Asset Rap come out, though, this is a full coloring book. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Asset Rap come out. You go on your first, you know, you're still undercar, Magnolet, anything. Asset Rap come out, you do the tour. They offer you $8 million, and you say no.

Why? Because, basically, you start to learn more and more things about the industry. So, if you're an artist, it's the exact same thing as in potting. Your IP is anything that you create. So it's like, naturally anybody that's a rapper right now that don't got a deal, you own your masters, right? And you own all the royalties associated with your master's. And you could pass down that IP to your children. You could, you know what I'm saying?

There's people that are doing like venture capitalist companies now and selling that. Right. So it's like you own that IP that can be exploited in any way. And even if you don't have the means to manufacture a million CDs right now or to do a million posters, there are people that can and will. And that's where the record labels came in, right? So record labels for a long time did these things called 360 deals where not only do they own the masters to your product, but also all the image and likeness around it. And when you're an artist, the most important thing that is. you own is your image and likeness because you know you want to be able to sing a song but somebody got to buy a ticket first for you to sing the song you want to play them your music but somebody got to buy a CD first to play the music so all the things attached to it those are all different um like ways to make money I don't know why I'm losing hell of words thing but you know what I'm saying ways to make money so like I started to realize that I was making money in these other spaces. So the year after I survive comes out, I do a bunch of festivals too. You know what I'm

saying? And you're getting bags at them festivals. Yeah. The shows, it's like really, like I just said, tickets, merch, hard sales. Brand deals. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Brand deals. Being able to sell somebody's company is like a big part. Like advertising is probably the biggest part of like monies that are made from rap because it's it's a gamble. Like it's a, and it's a, and But it's like, I think I learned about all of these other ways to retain my own money, to make new monies, and to retain the rights to my shit because that's going to my children. So I feel like the value also is, the value of any deal that's coming to you is with the eyes on or with like the belief that you're going to make them more. money than that right like if you if you buy something that you looking at as an investment the

whole idea is that they're going to make more money you're going to make more money off of the thing that you're investing in so i'm looking at deals and thinking like okay if they want if they're going to make this much money or if i'm going to make this much money then they probably going to make at least three times as much as this right and i just started thinking okay well i could try make that money myself and like you said through brand deals through and there's way more ways to make money now too um but at the time brand deals like doing shows doing merchandise and carrying yourself a certain way like though it's going to continue to to make its own money And I think I just was blessed enough to like really like see that through to the point that like not to sound funny but blessings kept on in my lap certain looks that I got like being on just being honest being on Kanye's album like that was a huge huge thing for me like that that pushed me into a lot of people's vision and and like I was saying earlier being on SNL.

like having visibility and then being able to shine in those moments is like it's key you know what else is like how like how do you deal with life you walk off the Grammy stage and you got to go back to being a human now you still got to do regular things what was the obstacles and the side effects of success I mean For one, like, ego is tough to deal with. When you say that, what you're saying, it from you or from, from myself, from, I mean, from other people too, but like, you know, it's just like your understanding of self when you're like in the public eye and being, you know what I'm saying, market it and being, I don't want to say exploited, that sounds a wrong way, but being like, you know, just highly visible. It like, it'll put your ego. It just make you think differently of yourself.

of like how you should maintain relationships, how you should, you know, where your time should be spent, how much time should be, you know, allocated for other people versus yourself and what it looks like to allocate time for yourself. Like, I was also really young, you know what I'm saying? So I was 23 when I won the Grammys and I already had a kid. So like, just learning through all of the relationships that I had and had made, like, was, I think, just, just, tough to navigate. It wasn't like it was like immediately emotionally heavy for me. It was like something that I was just like Harlem shaking through, I guess, but it was like it was pressure though. And I think when after like a year of like living like in the aftermath of like you say

Like, one of those Grammys, like, I had to instantly go on tour, started working with CPS to do the, to do the grants for the schools. Yeah. You know, it was a lot of shit that was happening in 2017. A year later, I got engaged. You know what I'm saying? So it was like, I lived a lot of life in that, in the two years after Assyrab came out. that was like, you know, a lot of me pouring into people, a lot of me exhausted myself, a lot of, you know, but also a lot of, like, great groundwork too.

Like sometimes, sometimes that work is like, even though it's tiring, like, it's life and experience that, like, put me closer to being where I am today, you know what I mean. How is it that, you know, you, and the reason I want to talk about this, because this is a very important part of this, the journey of being an independent artist. One of the things they usually keep the lights on most of the time is the merch. Sometimes people won't make music, make money off the music, they'll make money off the merch. The hat. Tell us the story of the hat.

Yeah. So the story of the hat goes all the way back to high school. Like, I used to just always wear hats. fly hats literally fly hats but also like like I had like exclusive teams I used to just like I used to like hats like street wear and sports teams and but I would always get them confiscated at school so and but I'll come back the next day with a different hat and just try and duct security and so when the end of the school year day would come they would let everybody come in and take their hat out

And then they had just give me the box at the end because it'd be so many of my hats in there. So it's just like a hat was always, I don't know, it was because I like Michael Jackson when I was a kid or what it was, but I just always loved having a hat. So my first mixtape cover, Brandon Painter, I got the hat on. The app joint was from a random photo that he took in me where I didn't have a hat on. So I always used to hate on that. So when I got to the coloring book joint, I was wearing the socks hat all the time. and I had a really good relationship with the socks at the time and I still with the socks

but they used to always like give me express written consent to wear their like socks and magazines and all types of shit and would never really trip and then something happened where they acted weird one time about me using it or something and I felt like I didn't want those problems when my album would come out

so I took the picture of me holding my daughter that's the cover and it's like you don't get to see the picture of my picture of me holding a baby, but I wanted to get the expression of me holding my kid. And I got on a socks hat, and I'm leaning down. And I told Brandon maybe a week or so before the album came out, I'm like, take the socks logo off just in case. And he was like, what you want to put on that?

It was my third mixtape, so I'm like, I wanted to put a three, but I wanted to make like a specific design to it, like a little slash on it so I could trademark it and shit. And I sent it over to him. and the next time that I performed I needed a three hat and so I just kept rocking it and I knew that you know people will rock with it just on some like merch pieces being crucial but seeing somebody uniformed like seeing something that like I learned that from Donald Glover like he was wearing a shirt for a long time that he eventually sold and it's like when you well actually I don't know if he ever sold it but he wore the same outfit for

like a year everywhere that you saw him and it created an iconography around it yeah and so when you can sell an experience like people like that it feels like you know what I'm saying like you a kid and I feel like it wasn't that long after that I started producing the hats with new era and you know like I think any time you could you could give an experience to the fans that's like all the way down to that's why i think ty would be going so crazy tyler the creative yeah he'd be like with each each time he puts out a project like he has like a specific look and feel and aesthetic to it that's like you know what i'm saying just something that you could live in let me ask you this though how many hats did you sell i have no idea i wish i knew but

hundreds of thousands at the very least but you had the thing with new era but you had the thing with new era but you ain't stopped to get a manufacturer's yourself i mean i have i have like i did do something that were like dad hats that were like different vibe but like i think the new era thing is so cold because it's so attached to hip-hop yeah it's like you know did they come to you like yo let's partner up no it was my idea i knew this guy named eddie from uh from a while ago that uh that had always worked in new air but was like more i think like regional because you know they print the hats overseas but uh no i knew that i wanted to do the hat with new air because i was wearing a new era socks cap in the painting yeah you know what i'm saying so

like we originally printed on some like i said like some dad hats that were like not the right quality i had to ask to get them changed to the to the new air thing but we already had that relationship like i said from a while ago um when i did I actually did a collaboration with the socks, I think in 2014, where I redesigned some logos for them. Now, me and you had a conversation before this. You said something very important. You said the internet is not real life. Elaborate on that. Yeah. I feel like we live in just a hyper-social time, like hyper-internet-ass time where like, you know, you. You know, a lot of our communication or collaboration is organized online, which is good,

you know what I'm saying, for direct communication. But social media as like a web is so, what's the right way to put it? like monetized that there's there's not really like a democracy of ideas like most of the stuff that you see is curated for you you know through algorithm and and that algorithm is able to be manipulated by you know just by activity so we look at shit anyway as like how many likes or how many retweets to something have right like it's on a quantitative scale is how we typically interact with stuff and I would say going all the way back to like probably 2018 there's been like a very like easily manipulated system and getting information out whether

it's from like brands or media or politicians all the way down to like just regular people understanding how to use bots or shitposting pages. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And so it's like, it was shitposting pages. I like that. So it's like those, like that way of getting information it's like real people kind of have to look at it

with like a little bit of a squinty face because it's like there's all of our information is being given to us with an intention behind it. You know what I'm saying? So, like, the more violent shit that you see, the more miscreant shit that you see, the more, you know, advertising that you see. Like, everything is curated for you to be a consumer, docile, or misinformed. And so I think when, like, when we interact with it, we just got to kind of look at it, not as, like, you know, a straight truth, but just something that somebody's true. trying to, I guess, get something off with.

And I think, like, what my, what I got to do a lot in the last few years, if anything, is live real life. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, being outside, especially in Chicago, but I've been traveling a lot, like, out of the country a lot. but like in the real world in Chicago and in like and in other parts of the world

I receive a love that's like a different something that you can't access on the internet and I think like it took me a while to even learn that

and I think traveling helped me with that being outside of Chicago continuing in the programs like that helped me a lot but I think like it's something that sometimes I'm scared for the world for because we're at such a crucial time in terms of just where we are as a society.

It's not even just in America as globally. Like just where we are, the Internet holds a lot of power. And like I said, it's just easily manipulated. So how do you go into the studio and what energy and what's the motive? what inspiration you've taken into when you say I'm going to do Star Line what is that like how do it look do you is you just sitting in the crib one day chilling call the crew up like let's get busy like come on I mean troops let's get together mount the troop mount up like how do you how do it start from just living your life traveling doing you but you don't say it's time for Starline

that's a great question is both of those two things like it's like one part is like self-realization So I had this spot out in the suburbs that I used as a production studio. Okay. And when I say production, I mean like film and stuff. So I got a bunch of cameras. I really got in the film, like in 2021. Directing this stuff, right, and directing, how you think? So I was like, I started playing around with the cameras.

We first started off doing like little... What type of cameras you were shooting on? Sony FX9, FX3. Okay. And then just playing with different lenses on those. But I played around all the kinds of cameras now that I've been shooting more videos and stuff. But when I first started, I was on the FX-9 and the FX-7s and the FX-3. And at a certain point, I was like, man, I want to do something bigger, but I don't got a whole bunch of actors or a budget.

I was like, oh, I should just shoot a music video. And to do that, I had to make a song. So I made a song so I could shoot a video on a song called The Heart and the Tongue. And it's just about really not knowing what to write about, but knowing the importance of my voice and how good I am in making a song. And it's probably one of my illish raps ever. I ain't going to lie to you.

But what you were as good as making a video as you good making songs? At that time, I was a video. At that time, no. But what I would say is that it's still one of my great videos. And what it is, is like, it taught me. It was, I watched this video about Wes Anderson, the director, and art tourism, how he, like,

makes it so that every time you see his movie you know it's his movie it's like certain things aesthetically that he does he always makes things flat and he always turns the camera a certain way and just all of that so i'm like with that first video after watching the video about west anderson and making mine i set a lot of ground rules for how my videos would look and feel and to this day that was five years ago like my videos still have certain things there's always text in the center of my screens it's always like a super wide and a super close-up profile shot like certain things going to always stay throughout my videos but that was like the first step of it and that like kind of launched me into the music

and launched me into like you know knowing that I was on a project and so then I had a meeting like maybe maybe a month or so later where I called up a lot of the people that like you know put me in position or that I help put in position that are across all these different industries that are from Chicago though that like I know and love and basically had them go to this dinner Vic was there Joe Fresh Goods I think Drew Barber might have been there like a bunch of like you know what I'm saying Chicago folks that Mary McKean from the Salshill like people that are in different spaces and was like yo it's real I'm working on this shit I'm gonna have to call on y'all for help over time like and a lot of them I didn't

immediately engaged with, but the first person that I was, like, needed to be with was it. And so we started renting out this crib in L.A. And just making hell of music, doing writing prompts, like, going back to the basics. I didn't even tell you this, like, all this shit really started it in an after-school program, like, a after-school program for, like, basically for poetry and shit. And a lot of the rappers that are from Chicago that, that, that, blew up Saba and Lucky and Mick Jenkins and a lot of us went to this after school program, no name, that we would do an open mic at and everybody come up and rap and sing and we kind

of like create a community out of that. But like, I was always keen on being a performer first and then a writer. And because I knew that I could perform the that or whatever and I was a really good writer but whatever I write once I get on stage I can make it raw you know what I'm saying but it was in that space that I like really learned to like like not that like write the best verse every time like write write it like it's the most important rhyme you ever wrote and get out everything you need to get out on paper no matter how crazy it sounds or vulnerable sounds or whatever like you know what I'm saying really put put the art into it and when I got back with Vic

like we was doing writing prompts and exercises that we would do when it was in high school so that like really really I think launched us it's crazy you mentioned Saba because his song was one of my most played songs

one of the year when I'm telling you let me tell you I met Saba in this building that found you this way when he was doing his first tour when he was doing his first tour years ago he came to the foundry which is It was a smaller part of the Fillmore. He was doing the show.

He came through like Marty Grimes and them from the Bay Area. They was doing like a, they was doing the tour. You know, it was like, you know, that room was like 400. Mm-hmm.

After that, it was like, you know what I mean? Like, I'm having a busy day. Yeah. That's one of my favorite songs. So it's crazy that all you all was just created was just.

14 years old and like a little room. And everybody went. And everybody went. And you know, and it's just, you know, it's just crazy. But,

but I look at it like, when I see you I see I see bravery I see fearlessness I see resilience and I see

just creativity like and you know what's so good about creativity and art there's no boundaries there's no rules and I think that if you follow the rules

you wouldn't be here you're a rule breaker like in order to be a real creative in order to be a real like artist and artist is the person that create art of different variations, I think you really got to be like,

you got to, you got to understand that there's no rules. So there's no lines you got to stand. No things you can't say. There's no things you can't do. There's no colors you can't use. It's like this idea. And when I see it, I see you,

just to come out with something like Azurap, you know, coloring book. Just to say, no, I'm going to just stay independent because, yeah, it's tempting. Yeah, I can use this money. Yeah, but I like the fact that, Ica own me. I could pass something on.

And the fact that you even understand, like you said, oh, I need to make the three this way so I can trademark it. Like, do you understand a lot of artists that people know of and know of? They don't even own the trademark

to their name and labels do. Some artists don't even got their name trademarked. Yeah. So to see that you just was so locked into and that's why education is extremely important.

And I'm not saying just going to school. I'm talking about educating yourself from your craft and knowing where you want to go. It's like you knew where you wanted to go. So, you know, just still being out here, still torn. I said to myself, I don't want to talk to chance about music. That's easy. Because everybody talked to him about music. I want to talk to him about

him. And most of this conversation was about just you, your journey. Because nobody talk about your journey. Nobody talk about what normalized you and people can have the human connection to them. People can See, that's what I'm doing right now. I've got to keep going. I'm really on the right path. Yeah.

Fact. You know what I mean? Because people will see you and they'll be like, oh, he had a machine around him. Oh, he had the packaging. Oh, he had this. He had that. All you had is just belief. You said, I'm going to believe in me.

And I'm going to make this person believe in me. Then that's going to turn into two. It's going to turn into three. I'm going to sign the CDs. I'm going outside the Mac Miller concerts going out. You know, Childers, you ain't be no concerts. Selling CDs. And I'm going to just.

So the story, I think, I think we live in the world where people would be so fascinated with your glory, they forget your story. Or they never even tap and investigate your story to see what was the ingredients. The story was the ingredients that was able to create acid rat coloring book, Starline. Yeah. And to be able to still be here, still be relevant in the culture where as though, relevancy is like, relevancy is like fake now. no such thing. Facts. And the reason I say that is because

they tell us that relevant mean you got to stay here and don't go into where else. You got to go and get on the stage of rap. You got to keep like that. Relevancy is like you can't move.

Like the fan has convinced people to believe they convinced some of the greatest artists in the world because I mean seeing dudes break down. and plain sight. Some of the biggest artists in the world, they convinced them that relevancy mean that you've got to stay in front of my face every day and if you don't, you're not relevant no more.

If you go take care of your family, if you go on a healing journey, if you go to do it, you might say, you know what, I want to go to Rome or I want to go to Africa and I just want to read for a year.

I got these hundred books I'm going to read all year. I'm a chill. Oh, you're not relevant no more. Yeah. It's like it's a fear. It's like it's a button that people could push to have you in fear and to have you just doing whatever they want you to do for them.

And they'd be like, to me, relevancy is this. I know that I'm not going to be here forever. So why I'm here, I'm going to experience all of life. Blessings and all the life opportunities while I'm here. And I'm going to journey. And when I have time or when I feel like sharing, I will. But when I come out and share, you're going to appreciate it because it's authentically me.

Yeah. I think that's what relevancy is to me. And you always been relevant. Yeah. And I think you need to like always patch yourself on the back because not only that you always been relevant, you shared a journey with us that can always be used and to be a part of somebody else's blueprint to be able to like, it's a road like you're not from Portland, but you're a trailblazer. You was able to, you was able to, no, you created something.

You showed us. Because if somebody that's sitting right now in the apartment on a MacBook and Apollo and a little TL Mike, a little Mike, $300 mic, and they're just like, and next year they're going to go. Yeah, yeah. They're going to go next year. Like, they don't even know that they're going to go. They just know that when I come home from work, they might be working at a Best Buy or the grocery store that you created. the opportunity to see like I could be at the Grammys next year I really create a piece of art so you you art you you you'll give her um you'll remember see a lot of people don't

remember and I say remember and I make up my own words sometimes that's a great word though you'll remember it because you remember the people that the world forget about think about you know what I mean and you definitely is a visionary because you told them you said no man

I don't want to get you I don't want to sign this deal you're a visionary and you've seen with the future who and you never thought that it'd be this battle for IP now it's this it's this world world three

it's like this unbelievable IP battle I want your IP give me IP I don't owe your IP I gave it up I signed it away oh my God I'm trying to Is it going to reverse back? Yeah. Because I'm going to get this.

Then you got the dudes just sitting there like, oh my, it's I can do what I want. I can license it. Yeah. You know, because it's like, I think it's like when you see certain TV shows, when you know, you know, you just be like, I know George Jefferson and now,

everybody let a show, but is his family getting paid off the deal? Who own the IP to this? Yeah. Because it's in syndicate. He's always going to be on the reruns. reruns is always going to be playing no facts so just to know that it's like and you sat here today and i want to thank you for educating people see this was you being a teacher you also got

teacher to your name oh yeah because you sat here and you there's a lot of people that's going watch this and you used to be like i needed that i didn't know that yeah we got to share we got you share you shared information so uh keep doing your thing no i appreciate you for real man i mean keep doing your thing and uh The best song on the album is. You know, sometimes people got to be biased. You know, you got to be biased. Even if it's sometimes, like, you'll be like,

no, Chicago Bulls, that's my team. Even though they might be trashed. In this system, in this system, oh, my God, don't wear him up the bed. You see Chicago, you see he came in. Can we play in decent, don't we win the other day? Kayle playing decent, though. But that's another story.

So, so you come in here and it's like, I got to go with hometown speed of love well man Jasmine that's my girl Jasmine Philly show I got a shout out while you're in here I just got a shout out Jilly from Philly She did a real

real real solid favor for me She's not on the album But that's been somebody that's been my life She is and her family is the truth And they help me out Again it's not my story to share But they put me in position So I always appreciate them for that

But listen bro Keep winning Keep growing keep teaching keep exploring that's the most important thing i think as long as we explore because one day and it might and it might seem like it's far away from here but we don't know one day we got to leave and the in the things that we do and the information that we leave that's going that's history see because i think i'm going to leave it here you got to do things we're when you're living, that's still living when you're not living.

And you're doing that, bro. Appreciate you being on where it's wildow. Keep doing your thing and keep glowing and keep growing and keep flowing and keep flowing. We're out of here. Love y'all. Chance to rapper Where's Wallow? Yes, sir. I don't know.

M. M. You know, Mophe. You know,