Mind of a Serial Killer - HOLIDAY SPECIAL: The Santa Claus Massacre Pt. 1

Episode Date: December 15, 2025

Christmas is supposed to be the most wonderful time of the year — but for Bruce Pardo, the holidays brought something far darker. After losing his marriage, his family, and even his dog, Bruce’s b...itterness turned deadly. In this first part of our Christmas Crime Special, we meet the Ortega family — a loving, tight-knit clan from Covina, California. When Sylvia Ortega met Bruce, she believed she’d finally found her happily ever after. But behind Bruce’s charming smile was a trail of deceit, neglect, and violence stretching back decades. As Carter Roy guides us through the Ortegas’ story, we uncover how one man’s obsession and thirst for revenge set the stage for one of the most horrifying crimes in Christmas history.Listen to Murder: True Crime Stories wherever you listen to podcasts: https://play.megaphone.fm/zooymjyirj-p1yeorxgirw To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Starting point is 00:00:00 Hi, Crime House community. It's Vanessa Richardson. Looking for another Crime House original podcast to add to your rotation, you will love Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelin Moore. Every Wednesday, Morgan and Kaelin dig into the world's most notorious crimes, clue by clue, from serial killers to shocking murders. They follow the trail of clues, break down the evidence, and debate the theories. It's like hanging out with your smart and true crime-obsessed friends. Listen to Clues on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you listen to podcasts. This is Crime House. Happy holidays to all the Crime House listeners out there.
Starting point is 00:00:52 I'm Carter Roy, host of murder, true crime stories. And this is the first episode of Crime House. Christmas crime special, the Santa Claus Massacre. They say Christmas is the most wonderful time of the year. It's not just about the presents or twinkling lights. Most of all, it's about spending time with loved ones and celebrating everything we're thankful for. But for some people, the holidays are a cruel reminder of what they've lost.
Starting point is 00:01:26 Bruce Pardo was one of those people. After years of hiding his true colors, Bruce's dark past finally cut up to him by 2008, and the truth cost him everything, his wife, his family, even his dog. And instead of holing up alone that holiday season, Bruce decided to take action. Slowly, but surely, he developed a terrible plan, and all he wanted for Christmas was revenge. Today we'll meet the Ortega's, a tight-knit Mexican-American family living in Covina, California. Growing up, Sylvia Ortega knew true love exists. she'd seen it with her own parents, and when she met Bruce Pardo in 2004, she was certain
Starting point is 00:02:31 this was her happily ever after. But soon she learned a terrible secret about Bruce, one that shattered everything. Next time, we'll learn what happened when Bruce faced rejection for the first time in his life. Instead of taking responsibility for his actions, He vowed to take revenge on Sylvia and everyone she loved. And he chose to do it on what should have been the happiest night of the year. Christmas Eve. All that and more coming up. Christmas in Southern California looks a bit different than it does other places.
Starting point is 00:03:21 Los Angeles doesn't get snow. The city is always bustling, and it's never cold enough for a roaring fire. But that doesn't mean the Christmas spirit isn't alive and well. Especially 22 miles east of the city in a small town called Covina. Every December, downtown Covina is transformed. Twinkly lights hang from the windows and wrap all the way up in the palm trees. Festive wreaths dangle from streetlights. and annual traditions like a tree lighting ceremony and Christmas parade bring the community together.
Starting point is 00:03:58 For Joe and Alicia Ortega, this was their favorite time of the year. But their story didn't start in Covina. Joe was the son of Mexican immigrants who came to the United States in the 1920s. When Joe was born in 1928, he was the first person in his family to be born a youth. U.S. citizen. And although their parents eventually returned to their home in Mexico, Joe and his brother stayed in the U.S. Still, they made sure to visit their parents at least twice a year. During one of those visits in 1955, 27-year-old Joe first laid eyes on the future Mrs. Ortega. At the time, her name was Alicia de Sotomayor. She was only 17 years old, but according to Alicia's sister,
Starting point is 00:04:50 It was love at first sight. Joe asked Alicia's parents for permission to take her on a date. He could barely hide his joy when they said yes. He and Alicia went out to dinner in the theater, and the more they talked, the more they realized how much they had in common. They shared the same taste in music, they both loved soccer, and most importantly, they both rooted for the same team, Santos. When Joe asked for her hand in marriage, after just three weeks of dating, Alicia was over the moon.
Starting point is 00:05:25 It might have been fast, but Alicia knew in her heart that Joe was her person. Soon after, Joe brought Alicia back to the States. They moved to the Baldwin Park area of Los Angeles. There they started a paint company called Industrial Powder Coating Incorporated. The business grew fast, and so did the Ortega family. In 1956, Alicia gave birth to the couple's first child, a boy they named James. They had four more in quick succession, another son, Charles, and three daughters, Alicia, Sylvia, and Letitia. The boys seemed to inherit their parents' love of sports.
Starting point is 00:06:06 James and Charles were always outside, playing basketball or football with their friends. James was a calm kid, but a competitive one. Whenever he played sports, he played hard and gave it his all. His younger brother, on the other hand, was in it for the love of the game. Unlike his brother, Charles wasn't the most talented athlete. Still, he always had a good time, and despite their differences, both he and James valued one thing above all else, their family. That's why they both went to work in the Ortega family paint business after graduating high school.
Starting point is 00:06:44 And not only did they make good. money, but they got to work with their dad. It was the best of both worlds. But by the early 1980s, James was in his mid-20s. He was married and starting a family of his own. So he felt it was time to step out from his father's shadow and start his own paint shop. Well, there was no animosity about the decision. In fact, Joe was proud of his eldest for striking out on his own. Meanwhile, Charles stayed on to work with his father, even after he met his own wife sometime around 1981. Not long after, in 1982, Joe and Alicia purchased a large two-story home on Noel Crest Drive in the Los Angeles suburb of Covina.
Starting point is 00:07:31 Their oldest daughter was already an adult, but their two youngest 16-year-old Sylvia and nine-year-old Letitia were still in school. and Sylvia, who was a sophomore, wasn't thrilled about starting over. Luckily for Sylvia, she was incredibly social. She loved going to dances and house parties. It wasn't long until she got over her initial resentment and made a new set of friends in Covina. But Sylvia wasn't just a party girl.
Starting point is 00:08:03 She was also interested in business like her father and brothers. As she got older and graduated high school, she wanted to make her own money. Rather than joining the family paint company, Sylvia got a job as a secretary right out of school. Not long after, she met her first husband. Like Sylvia's own parents, their relationship moved quickly. The couple got married when Sylvia was just 19 and he was 29. It wasn't long until they had a daughter. It seemed like things were going well.
Starting point is 00:08:37 But then, tragedy struck. Sometime around 1988, when Sylvia was 23, she was driving in Arizona coming back from a trip to Mexico after visiting family with her husband. Sylvia was several months pregnant with her second child. They got into a horrible accident, which killed her husband. In an instant, Sylvia had gone from happily married to a devastated mother of one with another baby on the way.
Starting point is 00:09:10 Sylvia's family rallied around her. She went on to have a healthy baby boy. It was an incredibly difficult time. But thanks to the love and support of the Ortega's, Sylvia made it through. As time went on and she and her children healed, Sylvia remained a dedicated single mom. She continued to work various administrative assistant jobs to support her children, and while she may have dated, none of her relationships ever got serious.
Starting point is 00:09:44 Then she met George Orza at work sometime in the late 1990s. The pair quickly fell in love, and by 1997, they were married. Sylvia was 32 years old. That same year, Sylvia, George, and her two children moved to Oklahoma, where George, where George had roots as a teenager. Sylvia had a hard time leaving her friends in Los Angeles to move just 40 miles away to Covina. As an adult, moving from California to Oklahoma was much harder.
Starting point is 00:10:19 It was the farthest Sylvia had ever been from our close-knit family, and even though Sylvia put on a brave face, it was clear she missed them terribly. still Sylvia focused on being the best mother she could and six years later around 2003 she and George had a daughter of their own but the new baby couldn't fix old problems George had been dealing with alcohol addiction for years and after their child was born Sylvia reached her breaking point and filed for divorce Sylvia moved back to Los Angeles, where there were three children sometime around 2004. She got another administrative assistant job at a family-owned seed company.
Starting point is 00:11:07 And just as she was settling back into L.A. life, Sylvia met someone who would change her life. Just not in the way she'd hoped. Canada's Wonderland is bringing the holiday magic this season with Winterfest on select nights now through January 3rd. Step into a winter wonderland filled with millions of dazzling lights, festive shows, rides, and holiday treats. Plus, Coca-Cola is back with Canada's kindest community, celebrating acts of kindness nationwide with a chance at 100,000 donation for the winning community and a 2026 holiday caravan stop. Learn more at canadaswunderland.com. In 2004, 39-year-old Sylvia Ortega had returned to her hometown of Los Angeles after losing one husband in a tragic accident and divorcing another. Now, she was focused on spending time with her family and raising her three children.
Starting point is 00:12:16 Dating probably wasn't a priority, but that didn't mean she wasn't open to it. So she was pleasantly surprised when her brother-in-law, introduced her to his co-worker, 41-year-old Bruce Pardo. As a software engineer at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, or JPL, Sylvia might have expected Bruce to be uptight and serious, but that couldn't have been further from the truth. Bruce was one of those larger-than-life-type people, always laughing and cracking jokes.
Starting point is 00:12:51 He and Sylvia hit it off right away. They quickly began spending more time together, going on dates, and getting to know each other. Bruce seemed like an open book. Sylvia had no idea that he was keeping some very dark secrets, ones that he was determined to keep buried. Like Sylvia, Bruce was born and raised in Los Angeles County. His dad was an engineer and noticed that Bruce also had an aptitude. for math, his father encouraged him to pursue it. Maybe he'd go into a similar career. So, as a teen, Bruce attended John H. Francis Polytechnic High School in Sun Valley, where he focused on math,
Starting point is 00:13:37 science, and technology. Bruce did well there, and it wasn't a surprise that after graduating in 1981, the 18-year-old went on to study computer science at Cal State Northridge. Despite his brains, Bruce was also something of a class clown. He loved to be the center of attention and would do anything to get a laugh. At his college graduation around 1985, Bruce carried a life-sized blow-up doll around all day. He even took it onto the stage to get his diploma. Not long after graduating, Bruce landed a job as a software engineer at JPL, It was hard work, and Bruce looked for ways to do as little as possible.
Starting point is 00:14:26 He bragged friends about taking long lunches and finding ways to look busy without actually doing much. And he didn't seem to think the rules applied to him either. If he wanted to take time off, he just left. For example, if there was fresh snow on any of the nearby mountains, he'd ditch work for an impromptu winter holiday. In another case, Bruce even hacked into NASA's computer system to look up his colleague's salaries, just because he could. But one thing Bruce couldn't do was stay on top of his finances.
Starting point is 00:15:04 Although he made good money at NASA, it didn't stay in his bank account long, which was probably why he was still living at home with his mom, Nancy Windsor, even as a well-paid 24-year-old. But living with Nancy didn't hurt Bruce's romantic life. In fact, in 1988, 25-year-old Bruce got engaged to a woman named Delia. They met while working at JPL. And unlike Bruce, she actually had a decent amount in savings.
Starting point is 00:15:40 To Bruce, this sounded like a great way to bankroll the life he wanted, starting with the wedding, which Bruce wanted to be extravagant. Delia put down the deposit for their reception at a country club. She footed the bill for honeymoon in Tahiti. After spending a year finalizing the details, Bruce and Delia sent out invitations to 250 guests and booked the San Fernando mission for the ceremony.
Starting point is 00:16:14 The day of the wedding started off a little chaotic, everyone rushed around doing their jobs preparing the venue with decorations and flowers things were all falling into place when it became apparent that something very important was missing the groom his mother hoped he was just running late but minutes stretched into hours and before long it was clear that bruce wasn't coming he'd skipped out on his own wedding. It took Delia a week to find out what had happened. Bruce took all the money out of their joint account, about $3,000, which is almost $8,000 in today's money, and ran away to Palm Springs. Eventually, Bruce showed up at work like nothing had happened,
Starting point is 00:17:12 tanned and happy from his vacation to the desert. Delia was devastated, but by all accounts, she never got an explanation nor an apology from Bruce. Still, consequences weren't something that kept Bruce up at night. He'd humiliated Delia, embarrassed his family, and stolen his fiancée's money. Even then, it seemed like the people in his life didn't call him out of him. it might have been his charisma but it also could have been because they liked benefiting from his generosity he was still covering dinners and inviting people to party on his boat but the older he got the harder it was for Bruce to pull off the frat-boy life and eventually even he had to grow up
Starting point is 00:18:10 the moment came in the year 2000 it's not clear how long they'd been dating, but that was when 36-year-old Bruce and his girlfriend, Elena Lucano, had a baby boy. They named him Bruce, but called him by his middle name, Matthew. It seemed like Bruce was finally taking on some real responsibilities. He, Elena and the baby, moved into a nice house with a pool in the backyard. He talked about setting up a college fun for his son, no doubt imagining Matthew following in his footsteps as an engineer, it felt like Bruce had turned over a new leaf as a caring father and family man. Then, in January 2001, tragedy struck. One day, Elena needed to run some errands. She left
Starting point is 00:19:02 13-month-old Matthew in the care of his father. When she got back hours later, Bruce was watching tv and baby matthew was nowhere to be found bruce hadn't even noticed he'd been missing he jumped up and helped alina frantically searched the house that was when they spotted the tiny body floating in the pool matthew had fallen in bruce raced outside and dove into the water unmaraculously matthew was still alive but no one knew how long he'd been submerged. Emergency services rushed the toddler to the hospital. Bruce sat at Matthew's bedside every day for a week. But when the doctors delivered the news that Matthew had suffered extensive brain damage,
Starting point is 00:19:59 Bruce broke. Maybe he felt guilty, or maybe it was something worse, that he didn't want to raise a disabled son. Whatever his reasoning, Bruce did the unforgivable. Just like before, he ran from his responsibilities. From then on, he never spoke to Elena again, except through attorneys. Bruce never voluntarily paid her a penny of support.
Starting point is 00:20:34 Even when Matthew's medical expenses topped over $300,000, Elena had to sue him for financial assistance. Once again, Bruce apparently saw nothing wrong with walking away. He didn't want to be in that situation, so he got out. When Bruce met 39-year-old Sylvia Ortega in 2004, it had only been three years since he abandoned his death. disabled child. But Bruce didn't see the need to share that with his new girlfriend. Bruce's friends and family were still hoping that he would settle down and finally become a family
Starting point is 00:21:18 man. They all thought Sylvia was perfect. And apparently Bruce did too, so he decided to pursue her. Even though she was fresh off a divorce, Sylvia wasn't immune to Bruce's charms. and neither were the rest of the Ortega's. They opened their home to Bruce with the same generosity they showed everyone. He was immediately welcomed as a part of the family. Even though Bruce came from a much smaller household, he'd always loved a crowd,
Starting point is 00:21:54 and he always had an audience with the Ortega's. So everyone was thrilled when they tied the knot in January of 2006. Bruce bought a new three-bedroom house in Montrose, about 30 miles north of Covina. It was a young, affluent neighborhood, only 10 minutes from Bruce's work at JPL. Sylvia and her four-year-old daughter moved in with Bruce after the wedding. It's not clear where her older kids were living at this point, but they were in their 20s or late teens. Even so, Sylvie was determined to fill her new home with love and laughter. They bought a dog, and Akita they named Saki, and made friends in the neighborhood.
Starting point is 00:22:40 Bruce even regularly volunteered to usher at the local Catholic church on Sundays. After years of frat-boy antics, he was finally starting to grow up. For the first year of their marriage, life was good. But then, something started to change. The fun-loving, goofy guy that Sylvia fell for, was disappearing. The Bruce taking his place was aloof and constantly harping about money, which was odd, because money was one thing he shouldn't have been concerned about. Bruce had left JPL in 2005 for a software engineering job with a defense contractor called
Starting point is 00:23:25 ITT. He still made six figures, and Sylvia brought in about $30,000 from her administrative of assistant job, and yet they argued about finances all the time. The one bright spot was Sylvia's mother-in-law, Nancy. She doted on Sylvia's child and treated Sylvia like the daughter she never had. But as the pair grew closer, Nancy struggled beneath the weight of a terrible secret. Bruce might have cut off all contact but Nancy kept in touch with her grandson Matthew and his mom and though it technically wasn't her story to tell she felt that Sylvia deserved to know
Starting point is 00:24:13 so toward the end of 2007 Nancy sat her daughter-in-law down and revealed the truth Bruce had neglected his child resulting in Matthew's brain damage, and then he walked away. Now, he had no relationship with them and didn't send any child support, all while claiming Matthew was a dependent on his taxes. Sylvia was horrified. She couldn't imagine abandoning any of her children,
Starting point is 00:24:46 especially if they were ill, and she was shocked that Bruce felt comfortable lying to her about it. After thinking it over, Sylvia knew she had to confront him about it. The whole thing was horrible. The least Bruce could do was stop claiming Matthew on his taxes. Not only did Bruce refuse, but he didn't show any remorse. This wasn't the man Sylvia thought she'd married. It was too much for her to forgive.
Starting point is 00:25:19 So in March 2008, Sylvia, filed for legal separation. Though the marriage was over, Sylvia didn't want to completely uproot her daughter's life. There were only a few months left in the school year, so she asked Bruce if they could stay in the house until then. He made his decision known in the cruelest way possible. Sylvia came home from a niece's birthday party to find her and her daughter's belongings
Starting point is 00:25:50 out on the driveway. Bruce had kicked them out. With that, any chance of reconciliation was gone. Sylvia moved in with her sister and prepared to file for divorce. Sylvia thought Bruce had shown his true colors. She didn't know it was just the tip of the iceberg. I'm Jake Halpern, host of Deep Cover, a show about people who lead double lives. We're presenting a special series from Australia.
Starting point is 00:26:31 It's all about a family who was conned by a charming American. When you marry some and you feel like you really know them. I was just gobsmicked as to what's going on here. Does the name Leslie Manukian mean anything to you? Oh, you bet. Never forget her. Listen to Deep Cover Presents, Snowball, wherever you get your podcast. In March of 2008, after barely two years of marriage, Sylvia Ortega and Bruce Pardo were headed for divorce. 42-year-old Sylvia had learned some awful things about 45-year-old Bruce, including the fact that he'd abandoned his disabled son, but still used the boy for a tax break.
Starting point is 00:27:17 realizing that she didn't truly know the man she'd married, Sylvia left. By April, the pair had hired attorneys. Through his lawyer, Bruce asked if there was any chance they could reconcile. Sylvia said no. As far as she was concerned, the marriage was over. Bruce had done plenty of leaving, but he'd never been the one dumped before. Still, it seemed like he took it remarkably well. His attorney said he never seemed upset, and as spring turned into summer,
Starting point is 00:27:57 Bruce's neighbors didn't notice anything different about him either. He was still the same friendly guy next door. Unbeknownst to his friends and neighbors, Bruce did do something out of the ordinary. On June 13th, he visited God. gun world in nearby Burbank and purchased a 9mm handgun in cash. At the time, the purchase didn't raise any red flags. Hundreds of people bought guns at similar shops every day in Los Angeles for hunting, protection, or even recreation. But it was just the beginning of Bruce's plan. Five days later, on June 18th, Bruce and Sylvia had their first hero.
Starting point is 00:28:46 hearing before a judge. A few of the Ortega's had shown up to support Sylvia. Surprisingly, Bruce's mom, Nancy, had also come, but she made it clear whose side she was on when she sat with Sylvia's family. Except for his attorney, Bruce was alone on his side of the courtroom. Sylvia asked for spousal support until she could find a higher-paying job or get more hours at her current one. With three kids, it was extremely hard for her to make ends meet on her salary alone. The court ordered that Bruce pay $1,785 a month, but Bruce had a hard time following through on the orders. His first check bounced, and he put a stop payment on the second before it could do the same. Bruce had always been more of a spender than a saver, and it probably
Starting point is 00:29:44 didn't help that he was fired from his job at the end of July. His old habit of trying to cheat the system had finally caught up to him. ITT found out that Bruce was billing for hours that he wasn't actually working. Incredibly, Bruce tried to file for unemployment, but when you're fired for good reason, you don't qualify. And that wasn't the only dishonest move Bruce made that summer. Although he still couldn't make his spousal support payments, Bruce somehow scraped enough money together to purchase a second 9mm handgun at Gun World on August 8th. It's worth mentioning that California has a law restricting the sales of concealable firearms like handguns. According to the statute, a person can only buy one every 30 days, which was why Bruce waited until September
Starting point is 00:30:46 8th to go back for gun number three. If anyone had been tracking him, they would have seen the disturbing pattern began to emerge. Bruce wasn't just interested in guns. He was stocking up on them. Later that same day, Bruce reached out to his neighbor, Jerry Deaught, who owned a costume company. Bruce said he needed a Santa outfit for a kids party. September may seem early to be ordering that particular costume, but Bruce was six foot four inches tall and 275 pounds. He knew that renting wasn't going to be an option. He needed something custom. Jerry said she could do it for around $300, but she'd need a $200 deposit up front. Bruce told her it wasn't a problem and dropped off the money. Between handguns and costumes, the only thing he didn't seem to have the
Starting point is 00:31:48 money for was his spousal support payments to Sylvia. But as usual, Bruce had an excuse. He told the judge he was applying for new jobs without much success. So the court agreed to suspend the payments on the basis of financial hardship. And yet, the next month, Bruce spent another $1,000 on his fourth 9-millimeter. Aside from the firearms, Bruce wasn't spending money on much else. Without a job, he didn't have much reason to leave the house.
Starting point is 00:32:24 On the rare occasions that he did, it was usually to walk socky, his dog. He also got lunch at a nearby bakery a few times a week, But most of the time, he was alone, licking his wounds. It was a departure from the social and outgoing guy he used to be. Maybe Bruce had burned all those bridges. But the biggest heartbreak must have been his relationship with his mother. He hadn't spoken to her since the hearing started.
Starting point is 00:32:56 For the first time, Bruce was all alone. So when an old friend from high school randomly reached out, Bruce was eager to reconnect. His name was Stephen Irwin, no relation to the crocodile hunter. Since they had last spoken, Steve had ended up in Iowa with a wife and six kids. It's not clear why Steve called, but he ended up inviting Bruce to his 45th birthday party in Iowa sometime in October. Bruce desperately needed to get away from everything for a while,
Starting point is 00:33:33 while and booked a plane ticket. When they sat down to catch up, Bruce unloaded about everything he'd been through. He told Steve about the divorce and that he'd been fired. It's safe to assume he wasn't honest about the reasons why. Instead, Bruce talked about how embarrassing it was for his personal business to be out in the open. And to make matters worse, his own mother had taken Sylvia's side. It was clear that Bruce felt deeply wronged. He'd been abandoned by the people he believed were supposed to love him the most. And while Sylvia had this large, loving family to turn to, he had no one. Bruce was lonely and angry, a terrifying combination.
Starting point is 00:34:27 But after getting everything off his chest, he seemed to be able to move on and enjoy the rest of his trip. From what Steve could tell, after their discussion, Bruce was his usual happy-go-lucky self. Well, catching up with an old friend was nice. Bruce was hiding an ulterior motive for the visit. While he was in Iowa, he stopped at a local gun store. There, he purchased 16 handgun magazines. In California, magazines were limited to a 10-bullet capacity. The ones Bruce bought in Iowa could store 18 bullets each.
Starting point is 00:35:09 They were the perfect addition to his arsenal. When Bruce came home, it was almost November. Jerry called to say his Santa suit was ready, so he went to pick it up. He paid the final $100 and even tipped her an extra 20. Then on November 13th, Bruce bought his fifth and final handguns. done. The next few weeks of Bruce's life seemed to be lonely ones. As Thanksgiving came and went, he sat alone in his empty house. He had lots of time to think about Sylvia and the Ortega's celebrating together, and as their divorce case wound down in the courts, his thoughts
Starting point is 00:35:55 turned bitter. After months of negotiating and hearings, Bruce and Sylvia finalized their divorce settlement on December 18, 2008. Bruce agreed to pay Sylvia a lump sum of $10,000, and in exchange, he kept the house. Sylvia got to keep her engagement ring, but the real kicker was that the court awarded Sylvia possession of their dog, Saki. The dog had been Bruce's only companion for months, and now it was gone. Along with everything else, Bruce once held dear. But Bruce had snapped months ago. The moment Sylvia decided their marriage was over,
Starting point is 00:36:46 he'd been carefully plotting his revenge ever since. He didn't care what the courts ordered or that Sylvia thought she'd won. Bruce knew he was going to make them all pay soon enough it would be a Christmas none of them would ever forget
Starting point is 00:37:10 thank you so much for listening on Carter Roy and this is murder true crime stories come back next time for part two of this story and all the people it affected murder true crime stories is a crime house original powered by pave studios here at crime house we want to thank each and every one of you for your support if you like what you heard today reach out on social media at crime house on tic talk and instagram don't forget to rate review and follow murder true crime stories wherever you get your podcasts your feedback truly makes a difference and to enhance your murder true crime stories listening experience, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode ad-free,
Starting point is 00:38:08 and instead of having to wait for each episode of a two-part series, you'll get access to both at once, plus exciting bonus content. We'll be back on Thursday. Murder True Crime Stories is hosted by me, Carter Roy, and is a crime house original powered by Pave Studios. This episode was brought to life by the Murder True Crime Stories team. Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Benadon, Natalie Pertowski, Sarah Camp, Megan Hannam, Molly Quinlan Artwick, and Russell Nash. Thank you for listening. Looking for your next Crimehouse Listen, don't miss Clues with Morgan Absher and Kailen
Starting point is 00:38:57 more. Every Wednesday, Morgan and Kalyn take you deep into the world of the most notorious crimes ever, clue by clue. It's like hanging out with your smart, true crime-obsessed friends. Listen to clues on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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