Mind of a Serial Killer - Jeffrey Dahmer Pt. 4

Episode Date: October 21, 2024

In the gripping finale of our limited series, we explore Jeffrey Dahmer’s final murder spree and the chilling events that led to his downfall. As one of the world’s most notorious serial killers spiraled out of control, discover the shocking moments that sealed his fate. Don’t miss the final chapter of Mind of a Serial Killer, a Crime House Original. And come back next week as we examine the life of another serial killer. Follow @crimehouse on Instagram and TikTok for more bone-chilling true crime content. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is Crime House. Imagine you're driving down the freeway and you see the flashing lights of sirens up ahead. As you get closer to the accident, you tell yourself you're going to look straight ahead and drive right past it. But chances are, you couldn't help but take a quick peek at the wreckage. It's okay. We all do it. There's something inside of us that can't resist the pull of violence and destruction. Something in our mind that won't let us look away. That's the case with the story of Jeffrey Dahmer. It's full of pain, suffering, and violence. No matter how much we want to, we can't turn from it. And just like if you want to understand what caused a car crash in the first place, to

understand what truly makes a monster like Jeffrey Dahmer, you have to do something that every fiber of your being wants to resist. You have to look closer. The human mind is fascinating. It controls how we think, how we feel, how we love, and how we hate. And sometimes the mind drives us to do something truly unspeakable. When that happens, people wonder, how could someone do such a thing? Well, on this show, that's what we're going to try and answer. This is Mind of a Serial Killer, a Crime House original. Every Monday, we'll be taking deep

dives into the minds of history's most notorious serial killers and violent offenders. At Crime House, we want to express our gratitude to you, our community, for making this possible. Please support us by rating, reviewing, and following Mind of a Serial Killer wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly matters. And for ad-free and early access to Mind of a Serial Killer, plus exciting bonus content, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Vanessa Richardson. And I'm Dr. Tristan Engels. As Vanessa takes you through our subject stories,

I'll be helping her dive into the killer's minds as we try to understand how someone could do such horrible things. This is the last of four episodes on Jeffrey Dahmer, perhaps the world's most famous serial killer, who was responsible for murdering at least 17 people in Wisconsin and Ohio from 1978 to 1991. Last week, we examined Jeffrey's transformation into a terrifying, violent offender. Today, we'll follow Jeffrey's story as a terrifying violent offender. Today we'll follow Jeffrey's story as he gradually unravels and his story comes to an end.

And as always we'll be asking Dahmer's evolution into a serial killer after he killed his second victim, Stephen Tuomi. Between that night in November 1987 and May 27, 1991, Jeffrey killed 10 more men, bringing his total count to 12. Most of the time, Jeffrey followed the same pattern. He would offer his victim money to come over and be photographed, then drug them with a drink spiked with sleeping pills. Then once they were asleep, he'd strangle them.

Vanessa, having grown up in Illinois, I knew this story, but this part of Jeffrey Dahmer is just particularly sadistic and infuriating to hear about. It's heartbreaking, more than heartbreaking. It's horrifying. Things that police have overlooked, a lot of missteps, a lot of missed opportunities that have continued to happen here. As we've covered throughout this series, Jeffrey was fixated on finding some way to preserve the bodies so that he could keep a piece of them forever, which tied back to his extreme fear of abandonment. As the murders stacked up, he tested increasingly horrific preservation methods. And on the night of May 27, 1991, 31-year-old Jeffrey Dahmer took it to an entirely new level when he drilled a hole in Conorac's scintasmphone's skull and injected acid into it while Conorac was still alive. Somehow, Conorac survived and managed to escape to the street outside Jeffrey's apartment in a run-down section of downtown Milwaukee.

A few women saw him stumbling down the sidewalk and tried to help him. And by the time Jeffrey found Conorac, one of the women had called the police. They arrived a few minutes later and pulled Jeffrey away from Conorac. It seemed like Jeffrey was only a few moments away from finally paying for his terrible crimes. But much to the onlooker's horror, Jeffrey wasn't immediately hauled away in handcuffs. He told the police officers that 14-year-old Conorac was actually a grown man named John Mong. Jeffrey implied that they were living together. He said John had a few too many drinks and promised to get him safely to bed. The women who'd helped him shouted at the police officers

not to believe Jeffrey. Even though Conorac's head wound wasn't visible, there was clearly something wrong with him. At this point, the officers were starting to come over to Jeffrey's side, but just to be sure, they escorted Jeffrey and Conorac back to the apartment. Once they got there, they didn't see any sign of a struggle, and Conorac was much more calm now that they were inside. Of course, there would be no sign of a struggle because Jeffrey had attacked Conorac while he was passed out, and Conorac was probably so calm

because the acid in his brain was making it hard to put up much more of a fight. But the police weren't willing to investigate any further. The closest they got was commenting on how bad it smelled in the apartment, but they left it at that. After about five minutes, they left. They had no idea they had just handed Conorac a death sentence. So once Jeffrey and Conorac were alone, Jeffrey didn't wait long to continue his twisted, horrible experiment. He wasn't ready to give up on his quest to keep Conorac around as a sort of zombie servant and injected another syringe of acid into his brain. It was too much for his body to bear. Conorac died less than an hour after the police officers helped bring him back to Jeffrey's apartment.

To Jeffrey, it must have really seemed like no matter what he did, he'd never get caught. Up until this point, he'd been killing with greater frequency. Counting Conorac, he'd murdered four people in three months. But the spree he was about to go on would make that pale in comparison. In just the first 20 days of July 1991, 31-year-old Jeffrey killed four more people. 20-year-old Matt Turner, 23-year-old Jeremiah Weinberger, 23-year-old Oliver Lacey, and 25-year-old Joseph Braidhoft. Oh my goodness. That is not uncharacteristic, though, for serial killers. I think in Jeffrey's case, there's, you know, psychological reasons and wanting to be in need of power and control.

So there's gratification there, but there's also sexual gratification that's driving Jeffrey. So many things coming together. It's just a bad recipe. And whatever the reasons Jeffrey had for killing so many people in this 20-day window, it was consuming his life like it never had before. He stopped showing up to his overnight shift at a chocolate factory, and on July 19th, he was fired. That created an entirely new set of problems for Jeffrey, because he wasn't exactly

making a lot of money, and whatever he did make, he spent on alcohol. So without a paycheck coming up, he had no way to pay for his rent, which meant, sooner or later, he would have to move out. There was just one problem. His apartment was currently full of dead bodies. Jeffrey had killed so many people that he couldn't properly dispose of the remains anymore. Not that he was really properly disposing of them in the first place, but at this point it was a true scene of horrors. The drum of acid he kept in the bedroom was full of decomposing bodies, and more were left in the bathroom tub. At a certain point, it was so bad, he showered with them still in there. He left the body of his latest victim, Joseph Bredhoft, in his bed for two days.

Jeffrey most likely slept next to the decomposing corpse until he realized there were maggots growing in it. Even through all this, with his life falling apart and bodies literally stacking up in his apartment, Jeffrey was still fixated on finding ways to keep his victims around forever. After Conorac died from the acid injection, Jeffrey decided to try something else. After he drugged Jeremiah Weinberger, Jeffrey still drilled a hole in his head. But this time, he injected just boiling water. Somehow, Jeremiah lived through it. He woke up the next morning in a complete daze.

He was only aware enough to get up and go to the bathroom. He didn't seem to understand what had happened to him. That would be expected given what just happened. So based on where Jeffrey's drilling and the injury that that's causing, and based on where he's injecting acid or boiling water will tell us exactly what functions will be immediately impaired. What kind of damage is done to the part of the brain that can process emotion? So the part of the brain that processes emotion is in our limbic system. And our limbic system is also sort of closely tied to where our memory consolidation occurs. So, there's going to be a lot of disorientation initially. I'm just truly

shocked that Jeremiah had actually lived through the night having had that done to him. And again, we don't know where specifically, but nothing good can come of that. If you think about the brain, we already have our skull that protects the brain, but we also have something called the blood-brain barrier, which is like a very selective membrane that filters what it allows through it into the brain in terms of substances. For example, certain medications you're taking, it takes a while for it to breach the blood-brain barrier because the brain wants to protect itself at all costs. Yeah. Right? It's such a vulnerable organ.

After a few hours, Jeffrey gave him more sleeping pills, then injected him with even more boiling water while he was passed out. So Jeremiah died shortly after. At this point, Jeffrey was almost as much of a zombie as the men he was conducting his grotesque experiments on. He was on autopilot, driven by his intense desire to kill. And so on the afternoon of July 22, 1991, Jeffrey Dahmer went out again in search of another victim. He headed for the Grand Avenue Mall, the same place he met Conorac Synthasmphone. After propositioning a few men, he convinced a guy

named Tracy Edwards to come back with him to his apartment. The moment Tracy stepped inside, he could tell something was off. It smelled absolutely horrible, and there were cartons of something called muriatic acid on the floor. Jeffrey claimed it was for cleaning bricks. Tracy was skeptical, but before he could do anything, Jeffrey slapped handcuffs on him. Thankfully, he only managed to get them on one wrist before Tracy jerked out of the way. Suddenly, Jeffrey's demeanor changed. He threatened Tracy, telling him things like he wanted to eat his heart, and asking him to lie on his stomach, fully handcuffed. Tracy didn't know that Jeffrey's threats were all too real, but he knew something was definitely off.

To satisfy Jeffrey for the moment, Tracy took off his shirt. That seemed to placate Jeffrey, who zoned out, saying strange chants and paying no attention to Tracy at all. The second his back was turned, Tracy hit Jeffrey as hard as he could. Then he ran for it. selling author and entrepreneur Nicole Lappin. Money Crimes is all about the dark side of finance and how to protect yourself from it, especially when it ends in murder. From cunning Ponzi schemes to cutthroat politics and killer con artists, you'll learn that the finance world is more dangerous than you ever imagined. Follow Money Crimes, a Crime House Studios original, now. New episodes drop every Monday. Again, that's Money Crimes. Follow now wherever you get your podcasts.

And for early ad-free access, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts. When Milwaukee police officers Rolf Mueller and Robert Routh started their shift on the night of July 22, 1991, they probably didn't expect anything too unusual. Maybe a few drug busts, chasing down a mugger. And at around 11.30pm, they saw a man running down the street with a handcuff attached to one of his wrists. For a couple of officers who'd seen it all, this actually didn't strike them as that out of the ordinary. But it was definitely unusual enough for them to pull over and ask the man what was going on. He said a freak had put the

handcuff on him and begged the officers to get it off his wrist. They tried unlocking it with the keys to their own cuffs, but it didn't fit, so they all decided to go back to Jeffrey's apartment to make him take it off. Tracy hadn't seen any of the dead bodies, so none of them really knew what they were walking into. As far as they knew, Jeffrey Dahmer was just a weird guy with some questionable fetishes. And when Jeffrey let them inside, there didn't seem to be anything to contradict that idea. Aside from the nauseating smell, the living room was neat and tidy. There was a big armchair and a potted plant in the corner. The only thing that wasn't completely milquetoast was a framed picture

of a naked man. But for once, the officers didn't immediately write off the situation as harmless. They ordered Jeffrey to unlock the handcuffs. Jeffrey told them the keys were in his bedroom and, for some reason, invited Officer Mueller to go retrieve them himself. It seems like he instantly realized that was a bad idea and tried to just go in himself, but by that point it was too late. Officer Ralph held Jeffrey back as his partner cautiously opened the door to Jeffrey's room. Right away, Officer Mueller spotted a giant knife sticking out from under the bed. He also noticed the top drawer of a dresser was open and full of Polaroid pictures. He went to check it out, and what he found was the most shocking thing he'd ever seen.

These were the pictures Jeffrey had taken of his victims. There were photos of chopped limbs, severed heads, and rotting corpses. And they'd all been taken in Jeffrey's apartment. Officer Mueller went back to the living room, clutching a few photos. The second Jeffrey saw them, he tried to bolt. Officer Ralph grabbed him, and after a quick tussle, they had Jeffrey restrained on the ground. The two officers looked at each other and realized they needed backup. I don't know what Jeffrey's motives were initially in asking Officer Mueller to go with him to get the key. I don't know necessarily that he had this secret desire to get caught,

though I do know later on after getting caught, he was able to admit a rational understanding of just how egregious his crimes were and what he, quote, felt he was deserving of as a result. But I think the history of these encounters with police and getting away with things by the skin of his teeth, you know, when he was carrying the bags of severed limbs in his car when he got pulled over,

to the situation with Conorac, which is absolutely just mind-boggling how many things they overlooked that were so blatantly obvious to this instance here, it might actually play more into the psychological gratification of his crimes, meaning the thrill-seeking and the fact that he'd been so emboldened so far that he can charm police officers into believing him without and completely overlook the evidence i would think that it's more of the thrill seeking and being able to talk himself out of it the emboldened experiences that he had that emboldened him it's like he let his

guard down like oh police like i'm not worried or scared about them most of us if anyone's pulling us over like oh my gosh what do we do i know i do i see a light in the bag even it's not for me and i'm exactly the police are now in his home with his most recent victim who has a handcuff on one arm and he's like yeah sure come on into my bedroom you know it's like he was his guard was was down. He didn't have a guard because he really truly felt invincible. But then I think once he got closer to that bedroom, he might've been like, all right, no,

I need to put the guard up a little bit. We're not on good terms here. Exactly. By 11.50 PM, another officer arrived on the scene. He helped officers Mueller and Ralph get Jeffrey cuffed and he was officially placed under arrest. Once he was subdued, Tracy told the officers he thought he'd seen something when Jeffrey had gone to the fridge to get a beer. One of them went to open the fridge,

and inside there was a cardboard box containing a human head. The officers slammed the doors shut and told the others they needed to call the Criminal Investigation Bureau. Jeffrey Dahmer had truly been caught red-handed. Jeffrey was hauled off to the police station, and within the hour, his apartment was crawling with police and medical investigators. What they found was beyond even the most deranged horror movie. In addition to the giant knife under the blood-stained bed and the sickening photos, investigators also discovered a giant cooking pot on the floor of the hallway closet. There were dismembered hands and a penis inside. There were two skulls on a shelf above the pot, and the closet also contained genitalia preserved in jars of formaldehyde.

In another corner of the bedroom was the 57-gallon drum that Jeffrey dissolved remains in. The investigators didn't dare open it. The bedroom also held a filing cabinet, along with three skulls. One drawer had an entire skeleton inside it. The cabinet also held a dried scalp and more preserved genitals. More horrors awaited in the kitchen. Inside the refrigerator, of course, was the severed head. The freezer compartment had two bags containing human hearts and another with some kind of unidentified muscle. There was also a separate standalone freezer. It held three other heads and a bag with an entire torso. There were more bags frozen to the bottom, full of internal organs and pieces of flesh. Amongst all this terror and death, there was one instance of vibrant life. Prominently displayed in the living room was a beautiful aquarium with thriving, healthy fish. Well, that is a real contradiction that's happening there. But if we're looking at it from a psychological perspective, of the more functional, for lack of a better word, serial killers that we know of, like John Wayne Gacy, the BTK, they all had sort of like they had jobs, they had the home, the picket fence.

And there's this part that they know they need to put on a mask of sanity for a little bit in order to fit in with society, right? To look more normal in some way. And because Jeffrey lived by himself, so he didn't have a partner or children or really a job since he couldn't maintain one. He didn't have anybody holding him accountable or forcing him to try to fit in with what's more pro-social in life. And so maybe there's a part of him that's like, I need to

tap into a normal side of myself somehow, and that'll this, this aquarium with fish. That makes me feel like there's something normal in my environment. Do you think that means there's a shred of humanity? I don't know. There's a good question that he takes care of these fish so well, even though he's doing horrible things to these people. I don't think so. I think the rational part of him knows that what I'm doing is not a pro-social thing. It's not okay. It's against the law. It's deviant. It's egregious. It's criminal. It's all of those things. So I think because of that, he's trying to focus on ways to maybe convince himself that there's some normalcy to him. But when it comes to animals, there's a different type of connection that he's looking for with an animal versus a partner or companion.

So while all this was going on over at Jeffrey's apartment, he was down at the police station being questioned by Detective Patrick Kennedy. The interrogation started at 1.30 in the morning and would go on for nearly six hours until 7.15 a.m. But Detective Kennedy didn't have to work hard to get information out of Jeffrey. As soon as they sat down, he started talking. Without any prompting, Jeffrey confessed to killing 16 people in the city of Milwaukee over the past four years, and one more in Ohio in 1978. He talked about what he did to the bodies and how he got rid of them. There was so much detail, and it was all so disgusting that Detective Kennedy hardly believed it. But after the son

came up and he emerged from that interrogation room, he learned from his colleagues just how real it all was. Over the next few weeks, Jeffrey was happy to answer any question the authorities had. They showed him hundreds of pictures of people who'd gone missing in the past few years, and he was able to positively ID every single one of his victims. When asked why he was so eager to help, he told them, because I created this horror, and it only makes sense that I do everything to put an end to it, a complete end to it. Well, that makes sense to me why he would want to be the person to put an end to it,

because that gives him the ultimate control yet again over his victims. And for whatever justice there could be when it comes to something so monstrous, it did actually arrive. By August 22nd, 1991, just about a month after he was arrested, the state of Wisconsin had charged Jeffrey Dahmer with the murders of 15 people. The only two he wasn't charged with were his first two murders, Stephen Twomey, because Jeffrey claimed he couldn't remember what had exactly happened and there was no physical evidence, and Stephen Hicks, because it was in Ohio, although he would eventually be charged and convicted for Hicks' murder. But even though Jeffrey had freely confessed to his crimes, a trial still had to be held.

At first, Jeffrey pleaded not guilty to the 15 murder charges against him. As the trial date approached, he changed his mind and changed his plea to guilty. Although there was one caveat. His lawyer was going to argue that Jeffrey was insane. The trial officially started on January 27th, 1992. Because Jeffrey had decided to plead guilty, the only question at hand for the jury to decide was whether he was insane or not, and therefore legally responsible for what he'd done. I'd like to add, given that I do evaluations of criminal responsibility for the insanity defense, which is a legal term, insanity is not a clinical term that we use. It is a legal term based on state jurisdiction. So

it's going to vary. There's different legal standards as to what reaches the level of not guilty by reason of insanity or guilty by reason of insanity. But we're looking at, is there a mental disease or defect? Again, legal jargon, not clinical jargon. Per the legal standard what they were doing was right or wrong? And did that mental disease or defect impair their ability to really understand that during the commission of the crime? And then, of course, lastly, the court wants to know, can we restore sanity? And what's the risk to the public? Well, I can say from my professional opinion, he does not reach the present legal standard of criminal responsibility. He is not insane. These were very planned out, premeditated,

and he knew what he was doing was wrong because he hid it. He knew if gotten caught, he would be where he is right now. They got to try their best, you know, to put in a defense, but no way was Jeffrey insane. So clearly there's no need to go back over the stomach-churning details of Jeffrey's crimes,

which were covered in detail over the course of the three-week trial. Suffice to say, the jury learned about everything Jeffrey had done in excruciating detail, and they had all the information they needed to make a decision. Closing arguments were made, somewhat ironically, on Valentine's Day. It took the jury only five hours to make a decision. On all 15 counts of murder, Jeffrey Dahmer was deemed sane and, therefore, guilty. For the friends and family of his victims, it was a cathartic moment. Nothing would ever bring their loved ones back, but at least Jeffrey would face justice for what he'd done. But there was another side to the courtroom trying to grapple with this moment, Jeffrey's family.

A lot of attention goes on the perpetrator in cases like this, right? Dahmer and what he did. And of course, the victim's families, the communities. That's where most of the attention should be focused on. How did this happen? How can we support our community and the victim's families? And how can we make sure this never happens again? How can we hold everyone accountable where they need to be held accountable? But very few times do people really stop to consider the family of the actual serial killer or perpetrator. Because in a lot of ways, in most cases, not all, certainly not all, and we're talking in Jeffrey's case specifically, while his parents certainly played a role

in his attachments, in his sense of security and his interpersonal relationships based on their interactions, Jeffrey ultimately was the one who did these things, not his parents. So in some ways, the family and the friends of the person who held the biggest, most terrifying secret you could think of are also in that ripple effect when we talk about the victim impact, because they're in a lot of ways a victim of that person too. When Jeffrey's father, Lionel, finally discovered his son's true nature, he was genuinely shocked. He'd always known Jeffrey was troubled,

but he'd never noticed any so-called red flags that his son would become a violent criminal. Maybe this was willful ignorance on his part, or a parent's desire to always see the best in their children. But even if he'd noticed something was off with Jeffrey, there was no way Lionel could have known what he was truly capable of. That's not to say that he denied what his son did once he did find out, but Lionel did acknowledge his deficiencies as a parent, and that that could have played a role in what Jeffrey became. And so even though Lionel did acknowledge his deficiencies as a parent, and that that could have played a role in what Jeffrey became. And so even though Lionel could never forgive Jeffrey for what he'd done, he decided he would remain in his son's life.

As for Jeffrey's mom, Joyce, she struggled to cope with what Jeffrey had done. By the time Jeffrey was arrested, Joyce hadn't spoken to him in years and didn't attend his trial. But like Lionel, she felt some sort of burden for her son's crimes and decided to support him as best she could. She didn't get as involved in Jeffrey's life as Lionel did, but she did speak to him on the phone about once a week after he went to prison. And his grandmother, Catherine, who Jeffrey lived with for many years, never fully grasped the monster Jeffrey had become. By the time of his trial, she had severe dementia and died shortly after. They were the only ones. For the rest of the world, Jeffrey Dahmer was rightfully regarded as a monster.

His little brother David refused to show up for any court hearings, and according to Lionel, even changed his name to avoid being connected with his brother. And when it came time to sentence him, the judge was prepared to deliver the harshest punishment possible. Wisconsin didn't have the death penalty, so Jeffrey Dahmer was sentenced to 15 consecutive life sentences in prison. But he would barely serve any of it. On November 28, 1994, barely two years after he was incarcerated, Jeffrey was performing cleaning duty when he was beaten to death by another inmate named Christopher Scarver. Scarver also killed another inmate who was on cleaning duty with them. When asked why he did it, Scarver, who was diagnosed with schizophrenia,

merely said, God told him to kill them. And with that, a man who'd caused so much terror and inflicted indescribable pain was finally dead. But Jeffrey Dahmer's horrible deeds could never be forgotten, and they're reverberating long after his death, leaving behind a twisted, terrible legacy. And coming up, Dr. Engels and I will be getting into why Jeffrey Dahmer is still relevant today. In the time we have left in this episode, Dr. Engels and I are going to take a look at the legacy Jeffrey Dahmer left behind and try to understand just what makes his story so captivating. And I think we have to start by going back to the beginning, because for me, one of the reasons people are so fascinated by serial killers is trying to figure out just how they became capable of such gruesome acts. What happened to them as children that made them become monsters? Well, firstly, there's still the debate, as we discussed earlier,

are they made or are they born? So we'll take that into mind. But in Jeffrey's upbringing, we covered a lot of things. We covered the interparental conflict that was ongoing and present in his home growing up, the coldness of his home, the lack of nurturance, the more permissive parenting style where both Lionel and Joyce were really disinterested in engaging with Jeffrey. His obsession, I believe, with taxidermy or dissecting animals started with what would have been considered a bonding experiment with his dad, probably the only time his dad really gave him attention. And even Lionel admits that he could have done a better job in raising Jeffrey. We talked about that and how that can impact somebody long term.

The bigger theme here was Jeffrey's fear of abandonment and his need to maintain connection and companionship and how that was the driving force. It seemed like a thread. Yeah, it was that thread. The inner turmoil, the cognitive dissonance maybe with his sexuality in a time where it was widely unaccepted and people really weren't able to come out with it safely. And so they had to find places where they can meet each other, like-minded individuals. That also creates an inner turmoil for Jeffrey in figuring out where he belongs, where he's accepted. Yeah, so many things. Another aspect of the story that I found particularly interesting, and I think that most people won't really know about, is that Jeffrey Dahmer spent

a pretty long time trying to resist his violent instincts. That's not to say he should get a gold star for not murdering anyone for a few years, but it's an interesting aspect to the story. Nonetheless, it got me thinking, did he actually ever have a chance to turn his life around after that first murder? And are any of us really capable of that kind of large-scale change? Yeah, it gets a lot of us thinking. A lot of us in this field alone, it's a constant debate. A lot of research is going into this, trying to understand, are they born this way or are they made this way? And if we can identify early enough, if they were born this way, as some research has shown that there's been an identification of structural abnormalities in the brains of people who have been diagnosed

with psychopathy. So there is some evidence that suggests that there's a biological basis to this. So how do we identify that early? And if we can, and it's more on the likes of being made, then where can we intervene? Here's where we can try and see if rehabilitation is possible. Now, for all the horrible things Jeffrey Dahmer did, in my opinion, there's one major reason his story still holds so much sway over people. The unspeakable things he did to his victims' bodies. From the immediate aftermath of his arrest, all the way up to the coverage on him today, it's inescapable. Even in these episodes, we've gone through many of the horrifying details, but I don't think it's pure sensationalism.

There's something about what Jeffrey Dahmer did that activates a primal fear in all of us. Absolutely. I think Jeffrey is up there, even for myself, in terms of trying to understand. I think his crimes are just such an egregious level, right? We're talking about dismembering. We're talking about cannibalism, necrophilia, acid experiments with their brain. I mean, that's just a very sadistic thing. For intents and purposes, and I hate to use this word, but more on the normal side of things, right? In terms of what society approves of. We look at this and we're like, I can't relate to this, so I need to understand it.

And I think too, for a lot of people, it's okay, what happened? How did this happen? And how do I make sure this never happens to me or my loved ones ever? How can I understand this so I can prevent it in my own life and improve my own sense of safety? As we've spent all this time examining Dahmer's story and diving into the psychological factors that made him who he was, it's become clear to me that monsters like Jeffrey Dahmer don't just materialize out of the darkness. They're created bit by bit until it's too late to stop them. There were so many opportunities for Jeffrey Dahmer to turn his life around and live a normal life, but he chose his path, and innocent people suffered for it. In the end, the darkness won. And this story is proof

that when you ask the question of what makes a serial killer, there are no simple answers. Thanks so much for listening. We'll be back next Monday as we explore the mind of another serial killer. Mind of a Serial Killer is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. Here at Crime House, we want to thank each and every one of you for your support. If you like what you heard today, reach out on social media at Crime House on TikTok and Instagram. Don't forget to rate, review, and follow Mind of a Serial Killer wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly makes a difference. And for ad-free and early access to Mind of a Serial

Killer, plus exciting bonus content, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts. We'll be back next Monday. Mind of a Serial Killer, a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios, is executive produced by Max Cutler. This episode of Mind of a Serial Killer was produced and directed by Ron Shapiro, written and developed by Alex Benidon, fact-checked by Claire Cronin, and included production assistance from Paul Libeskind, Sarah Carroll, and Kristen Acevedo. Mind of a Serial Killer is hosted by Vanessa Richardson and Dr. Tristan Engels.

CrimeHouse has a new show called Money Crimes. It's all about the dark side of finance,, most importantly, how to protect yourself from it. Follow Money Crimes, a Crime House Studios original, now. New episodes drop every Monday. Again, that's Money Crimes. Follow now wherever you get your podcasts. And for early ad-free access, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts.