Mind of a Serial Killer - KILLER INVENTOR: The Submarine Murder Pt. 1

Episode Date: October 13, 2025

Before he became known as a killer, Peter Madsen was celebrated as a visionary. In Part 1, Killer Minds unpacks the life of Danish inventor Peter Madsen, a self-taught engineer whose dreams of rockets and submarines masked a twisted need for domination, control… and something far more sinister. Killer Minds is a Crime House Original Podcast, powered by PAVE Studios. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. For ad-free listening and early access to episodes, subscribe to Crime House+ on Apple Podcasts. Don’t miss out on all things Killer Minds! Instagram: @Crimehouse TikTok: @Crimehouse Facebook: @crimehousestudios X: @crimehousemedia YouTube: @crimehousestudios To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Crime House has the perfect new show for spooky season, Twisted Tales, hosted by Heidi Wong. Each episode of Twisted Tales is perfect for late-night scares and daytime frights, revealing the disturbing real-life events that inspired the world's most terrifying blockbusters, and the ones too twisted to make it to screen. Twisted Tales is a crimehouse original, powered by Pave Studios. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. new episodes out every Monday. Some people don't just dream big.

They believe they can change the world. They chase bold ideas, push boundaries, and test the limits of what's possible. Usually, this kind of ambition requires a little vision and a whole lot of grit. And sometimes it's the product of delusion, which was definitely the case with Danish inventor Peter Madsen. Peter was a self-taught engineer who poured everything he had into building rockets and submarines. On the surface, he seemed like a bona fide success story. But in the summer of 2017, the world realized that Peter wasn't a brilliant scientist. He was a crazed lunatic.

The human mind is powerful. It shapes how we think, feel, love, and love, and. and hate. But sometimes it drives people to commit the unthinkable. This is Killer Mines, a Crime House original. I'm Vanessa Richardson. And I'm Dr. Tristan Ingalls. Every Monday and Thursday, we uncover the darkest minds in history, analyzing what makes a killer. Crime House is made possible by you. Please rate, review, and follow Killer Minds. To enhance your listening experience with ad-free early access to each two-part series and bonus content, to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts.

Before we get started, be advised this episode contains descriptions of sexual violence and dismemberment. Listener discretion is advised. Today we begin our plunge into the mind of Peter Madsen. Peter convinced everyone in Denmark he was a genius, ready to change the world. But in 2017, he proved that he was nothing more than a madman, and that all he was really capable of was depravity and violence. As Vanessa goes through the story, I'll be talking about things like how some killers lose their capacity for typical emotional reactions at a young age, what it might mean when

someone's sexuality is not just over the top, but connected to dark thoughts, and how an unchecked need for power and control can launch someone like that off the deep end. And as always, we'll be asking the question, what makes a killer? Did you lock the front door? Check. Close the garage door? Yep. Installed window sensors, smoke sensors, and HD cameras with night vision?

No. And you set up credit card transaction alerts, a secure VPN for a private connection, and continuous monitoring for our personal info on the dark web? Uh, I'm looking into it. Stress less about security. Choose security solutions from TELUS for peace of mind at home and online. Visit TELUS.com slash Total Security to learn more. conditions apply.

At Desjardin, we speak business. We speak equipment modernization. We're fluent in data digitization and expansion into foreign markets. And we can talk all day about streamlining manufacturing processes. Because at Desjardin business, we speak the same language you do. Business. So join the more than 400,000 Canadian entrepreneurs who already count on us. And contact Desjardin today.

We'd love to talk, business. For most of his childhood, Peter Madsen was vulnerable and powerless. He was born in Denmark on January 12, 1971, to a mother named Annie and his father, Carl. From the day Peter was born, the dynamic of Annie and Carl's marriage created a major sense of insecurity. Annie was in her mid-30s, deeply religious, and had three older sons from previous. relationships. Carl was 36 years older than her, and he also had serious anger issues. One of the main outlets for his anger was his three step-sons. Even though they all lived together, Carl didn't view the three older boys as his family,

so when his rage took over, he directed it all at them. He was extremely abusive and beat them regularly. Peter, however, was spared. Since he was Carl's only biological son, he wasn't treated as badly. Instead, he spent his days watching his brothers suffer. When a child grows up witnessing violence at home, even if they're not the direct target, it's still traumatic. And we call this vicarious trauma. It's the emotional, physical, and cognitive impact of being exposed to violence,

especially in a place that's supposed to feel safe, like your own home. And in this case, although Peter was being spared physically, this was certainly psychologically abusive. some children in a situation like Peters can go on to develop survivors' guilt. And in certain cases, if the abusive parent idealizes the child who's spared, that child may begin to see themselves as special, chosen, or above the rules. And this can create a foundation for entitlement or narcissistic traits down the line. At the same time, being exposed to family violence without any protection or intervention can't interfere with the development of empathy. Now, in most cases, children do become hypersensitive to others' pain if they are experiencing something like Peter, but others can learn to shut those feelings off, especially if those feelings become overwhelming. They can then start to compartmentalize and even stop reacting to anything altogether. And when that pattern sets in early and it isn't corrected, it can evolve into emotional detachment. And we also have to remember that abusive behavior is learned.

That kind of environment can teach children like Peter that violence has had to gain power, and fear equals control. Now, of course, again, not every child who witnesses or experiences abuse becomes violent or detached or any of those things. In fact, most don't, but they are all impacted. And the harm just manifests in different ways. Sometimes it's through anxiety or guilt. Other times it's through control-seeking behaviors or difficulty forming healthy emotional attachments. So in a forensic psychology perspective, we're not just looking at what happened to someone. We're looking at what they witnessed, how they interpreted it, and what adaptations they made to survive. And in Peter's case, understanding that early dynamic offers important context and can help us understand how it may have contributed to who he would later become.

Peter's three brothers were actually also his mom's biological children. How do you think Carl's abuse might have shaped the way Peter thought men were supposed to treat women? I'm really glad you asked this, because even though there's no evidence that we know of that Carl physically harmed, Peter's mother, that doesn't mean she wasn't a victim of violence in a similar way that Peter was. In many families affected by domestic abuse, the non-abusive parent, in this case, it would be Peter's mother, is navigating a situation that's far more complex and dangerous than it may appear from the outside. She might feel powerless to intervene due to the risk of escalation or financial dependence, social isolation, or just concern for her own children's safety. They're already at risk.

So in these situations, staying silent or appearing passive is sometimes a survival strategy on its own. It's not necessarily a sign of weakness or indifference. It takes planning, it takes resources, and it takes opportunity to leave an abusive environment safely, especially when children are involved. For a child like Peter, though, witnessing this dynamic, seeing a mother who is present and loving but unable to stop the abuse can lead to the internalization of some damaging beliefs, like, for example, a belief that women lack authority. And over time, that could distort how he views intimacy or gender roles and power overall. And if the abusive parent is someone that he fears or even admires, a child can then begin to associate control with competence. That

modeling can shape their sense of masculinity, and it can teach that dominance is strength and relationships are something that you control or manage rather than nurture. Well, in 1977, when Peter was just six years old, Annie got fed up with Carl's abuse and she left him, taking her older sons with her. She wanted to take Peter, but he chose to stay with Carl. It seems like his father was the devil he knew. Or maybe Carl was a master manipulator who scared Peter out of making his own decisions. After all, Peter had learned how to keep his head down and avoid getting on his father's bad side, which meant he couldn't speak freely or be himself in his own home. And pretty soon, Carl unleashed psychological hell on his son.

Shortly after Annie left, Carl caught wind that she was seeing another man. This set off a series of explosive outbursts that Peter had to witness. On top of that, he told Peter that if he ever so much as visited his mother, he wouldn't be welcome back home. So Carl's reaction here was likely teaching Peter that women who assert autonomy or reject male control deserve punishment of some kind, which ultimately contributes to Peter's view of women. He's forcing Peter to choose loyalty through compliance, not love, which unfortunately reinforces controlling or dominating beliefs. Absolutely. And Peter was not only alienated from his mother, but he was completely voiceless. Not to mention, afraid of losing the only place he ever called home. However, as Peter got older, he managed to find common ground with his father.

Carl had been a young adult during World War II. He'd grown up in Europe at a time when rocket science was rapidly advancing and when figures like the controversial Nazi aerospace engineer Werner von Braun were making big waves. Carl had always been fascinated with these kinds of technological advancements. He was especially interested in what's known as propulsion systems, which is when a machine uses thrust to push an object forward. And in 1979, when Peter was eight years old, Carl passed that enthusiasm onto him.

Peter was instantly obsessed. It wasn't just the technology that captivated him, but the thought that these machines could launch someone into space or bring them to the bottom of the ocean, someone like him. At that young age, Peter decided he wanted to dedicate his life to building rockets and submarines. After that, he spent all his time studying, which meant by the time he entered middle school, he was kind of a loner. He basically had no friends, and it wasn't just because he was a bookworm. His interests had become too troubling. While other boys his age

played sports and learned how to talk to girls, Peter experimented with gunpowder and explosives. Suffice to say, no one wanted to hang out with him. Those years were tough, especially because when Peter thought he'd finally found his people, they didn't like him either. As a teenager, he joined a local club for amateur rocket enthusiasts. At first, the group seemed like a perfect fit for him, but soon he started pushing boundaries that made them wary of him. For example, he once suggested they experiment with a dangerous form of rocket fuel.

We don't know the details about the exact type of fuel it was, but we know that Peter's idea was scary enough to get him kicked out of the group. So research consistently shows that children who are chronically rejected by their peers often experience higher rates of anxiety, depression, loneliness, and low self-esteem. There are also at a greater risk for aggressive behavior and difficulties with emotional regulation. And of course that doesn't mean they will all struggle with that. But children need to feel like they belong and they need to feel valued. and the combination of early family dysfunction and peer rejection is especially

concerning because it can further disrupt the development of empathy and healthy identity formation. Instead of learning cooperation, trust, and social reciprocity, a child might retreat into isolation, resentment, or even grandiose fantasies where control and domination becomes substitutes for connection. Also, it's important to point out that peer rejection doesn't impact every child the same way. Some kids have protective factors. like supportive teachers, mentors, or extended family members that help buffer those effects. But Peter lacked a stable, emotional base at home. And when you combine that with the rejection from peers, that can increase his sense of alienation,

adding to an already developing framework regarding relationships and power. Do you think that Peter's childhood and the way he was brought up taught him antisocial tendencies? I mean, he's really doing some dangerous things here. It seems like he's trying to get attention or maybe rebelling. Yeah, it's absolutely possible. When a child grows up in a household where violence is actually modeled the way it was in Peter's home, rules tend to be inconsistent or even distorted, and emotional needs aren't reliably met. So they begin to internalize some maladaptive lessons, like, for example, that the normal rules of society don't apply to them. Those are all hallmark pathways into antisocial patterns of thinking and behaving. Now, again, does that mean his childhood caused him to become antisocial? Not necessarily. It's important to remember that no single factor explains behavior this complex. But, like I mentioned, violence and abuse are learned, and they're often cyclical. And those early experiences can create traits like emotional detachment, disregard for authority, and risk-seeking.

And when we look at Peter's interest in carrying out dangerous experiments, there are a few possible psychological functions to explain that. On one hand, risky behavior can be a form of attention-seeking. He wants to stand out. He wants to be admired for daring to do what others wouldn't. especially if he admires his father or equates similar behavior like that with admiration. On the other hand, it can be a form of rebellion, rejecting societal limits in favor of a self-made set of rules. For someone with antisocial tendencies, those experiments might not just be about discovery or innovation. They could also serve as a way to reinforce a grandiose self-image, one that sets him apart from everyone else.

And that mindset can blur the line between creativity and destructiveness, especially if empathy and accountability were never fully developed. So it could be a combination of these things, but when we consider his early childhood experiences and the possible internalized messages that came from that, it becomes really concerning. Well, getting kicked out of the club didn't stop Peter from honing his talents. If anything, it made him want to prove himself even more. When he was 15 years old, his chemistry and physics teachers helped him build and launch his

first large rocket. It shot 330 feet into the air. For Peter, it was a total thrill, and it was also a huge achievement, which led to him being offered a spot in a prestigious STEM school, that stands for science, technology, engineering, and mathematics. He now had a ton of opportunities, like going on a class trip to a brand new planetarium in Copenhagen. It was an experience Peter would never forget. For a kid who always felt like an outsider, looking up at the the stars gave him a grand sense of possibility. Peter wasn't just inspired by the idea of going to space. He was obsessed. From that point on, everything else in life came second, even when life threw him a major curveball. In 1990, when Peter was just 19 years old, his father died. And while

most people would feel grief, or at least shock, Peter didn't seem to care. He attended the funeral, after that, went right back to working on his rockets. Peter's reaction to his father's death actually makes sense when you consider the environment he was raised in and with the potential environmental risks I've already highlighted, specifically with regard to emotional detachment. Now, emotional detachment is a defense mechanism. Some people shut down their feelings to protect themselves from discomfort or anxiety or fear. Over time, that detachment can become part of their personality, making it harder to access

or express grief in the way that we might expect. Another possibility is that Peter had internalized anger or resentment toward his father. When a parent is abusive, some children carry an unspoken hope for change or repair. If that never comes and then the parent passes, what's left isn't always sadness. It can be numbness, it can be indifference, or even relief in some cases. It's a complicated and ambiguous form of grief. From a clinical perspective, what Peter's coldness could also suggest is a emotional blunting, which is not the same as emotional detachment. Emotional detachment, like I said,

is a defense mechanism, whereas emotional blunting is a reduced capacity to feel or express empathy, even in situations that normally elicit emotion like this. That doesn't mean he felt nothing at all, but he may have been unable to connect with those emotions. And in forensic psychology, when we see this kind of pattern, we tend to question how that person relates to others. If the death of a parent is met with indifference and not simply because of relational history or similar reasons like abuse, but particularly when that reaction fits a broader life history, it can sometimes point to a pattern where relationships are viewed as transactional, where feelings are minimized and control matters more than genuine connection. And over time, that relational style can contribute

to difficulties in empathy and intimacy. And in some cases, it can set the stage for more serious problems. And again, people grieve differently for different reasons, and it's not always a cause for concern regarding their risk of future violence. But this is killer minds, and this is a specific case. Although Peter didn't seem to be bothered by his father's death, it seems like all the isolation and loneliness had started to eat away at him. We don't know where he lived after his father died or whether anyone stepped in to help him figure out life as a young man. But we do know that instead of going out and meeting new people, Peter found other ways to pass the time. He started regularly watching pornography, and he quickly became obsessed.

With no friends and no romantic prospects, all Peter had was the internet. But eventually, that wasn't enough. So Peter found the courage to go out and meet new people. However, he still couldn't seem to fit into normal social environments. For someone like Peter, who likely had poor self-esteem, and didn't know how to navigate the real world. He was more comfortable putting on an act than being himself. So he started going to sex clubs and attending fetish parties. In those settings, Peter could hide his real personality behind his sexuality,

and he loved it. Over the course of a few years, he became a familiar face in those circles. But that meant he started getting tired of seeing the same people, or maybe they got tired of seeing him, Either way, he started joining websites for people looking for casual sexual encounters. And that's when Peter took things to a whole new level. He put his true desires on display. By the time he was in his early 30s, Peter posted online about BDSM, strangulation, and violent roleplay.

But that wasn't all. He also expressed interest in making his own pornographic torture films and described his love of, quote, murder, That's interesting because sexual fetishes, behaviors, and fantasies don't usually begin that late in adulthood. They tend to emerge in early adolescence or young adulthood. So that makes it more likely that Peter had these fantasies for quite some time. And what we're seeing now is him leaning into them more openly rather than developing them suddenly at this age. Unsurprisingly, most people didn't share his enthusiasm. But Peter wasn't going to give up. If others wouldn't

engage with his twisted fantasies, then he would find ways to lure them into it. By 2002, Peter Madsen was a regular player in Copenhagen's underground sex scene. He also harbored violent fetishes that he continually tried to act on, but he didn't seem to have much luck finding partners who were interested in the same things. At the same time, the 31-year-old rocket enthusiast was still trying to live out his dream of becoming an engineer, even though he never went to college and didn't have a steady full-time job. Despite his lack of education or experience, he tried to convince investors that his big ideas were worth buying into. But if he wanted to secure real cash, Peter would have to prove he could actually deliver. At some point,

he realized that people were more interested in submarines than rockets. So, he shifted focus. That year, Peter built his first homemade submersible and named it Freya, the Norse goddess of love, beauty, war, and death, among other things. It was the first amateur-built submarine in all of Denmark, powered by a simple electric motor. It wasn't flashy, but it worked. For Peter, it was all he needed, because the media took notice of his accomplishment, and soon his name circulated in science and business circles. But Freya wasn't just an investment hook. She was a conversation starter with women. At one point, Peter met a sex worker he liked and invited her on board for a dive. He later told friends that the woman had touched a certain

part of the submersible, and from that moment on, he had a, quote, special relationship with that spot. There is something known as object sexuality or objectophilia where someone experiences ongoing romantic or sexual attraction to inanimate objects, sometimes even forming what they see as a relationship with them. But I don't necessarily think that's the case here with Peter because, firstly, we don't see a pattern here that we know of. So then what is this about? From my perspective, it comes down to control, identity, and validation. By assigning a special relationship to a spot on the submarine, he was doing. more than reminiscing he was anchoring a sexual experience to something he created. That allowed him to merge his sexuality with his professional identity, reinforcing the idea that both were sources of power, desire, and uniqueness. It also gave him a sense of ownership. Instead of the encounter being just a fleeting moment with another person, he stamped it into the environment, almost immortalizing it. And he was using his submarine to attract women. So it makes sense why he would want to emphasize that even more. And that's a way of holding onto control because objects don't leave, they don't challenge you, and they can't reject you.

And finally, it reflects his need to elevate experiences into something bigger than they really were. By turning a private moment into a symbolic feature of a submarine, he wasn't just remembering, though. He was mythologizing. And that's very consistent with what we've seen of Peter. He's someone who constantly needed to inflate ordinary experiences into proof of how extraordinary that he believed himself to be. What are your thoughts about the way he used his career achievements to bolster his sex life? Inviting women onto a submarine wasn't just about sharing an interest. It gave him control over the setting, the narrative, and often the thrill of doing something risky or exclusive.

That dynamic can make the encounter feel more exciting, but it also tilts the power balance heavily in his favor. Clinically, what this suggests is that Peter may have been using career achievements as an extension of his sexuality. He's merging his success with intimacy and identity. And that can be a warning sign from a forensic perspective because it reinforces a pattern where people and even sex become objects in service of his ego, his need for control, rather than mutual human connection. Peter had found a way to make both his dreams come true.

He was becoming a respected engineer and had a way to lure women into his presence. But he didn't just bring people onto the story. submersible. Not long after he finished building Freya, he also successfully launched it. After that, he became a bit of a local celebrity. Some people even started calling him the Danish Elon Musk. Peter lapped this up. He loved being admired. But more importantly, he loved the influx of investor cash and the influx of sexual partners. One of his go-to places to meet people was a performance collective called the Kinky Salon, which was known for its experimental

sex parties and open atmosphere. Based on what you described, it seems that Peter treated sex less as intimacy and more as performance. Psychologically, this suggests a few things. First, it speaks to a need for validation through that performance. If you always have to wear a costume or play a character or stage a scene, it may be because you don't feel safe or possibly don't even know how to be authentic. And this has been a pattern of his that you've already really outlined for us. It would fit with a pattern also of emotional detachment. And second, it highlights Peter's mingling of sexuality and power. From a forensic lens, this is what we call instrumental sexuality. He's using sex less as mutual bonding and more

as a tool to regulate his self-esteem and to gain dominance or even admiration. And it also could suggest that Peter's sense of self was fragmented, which I think we can see is actually really happening. He has never simply been Peter. And by constantly playing roles, this may have shielded him from vulnerability, at least in his mind, but in doing so, he's also stripping intimacy of reciprocity entirely. Do you think it's possible that Peter has a fetish disorder? That's a great question. I've actually been thinking about that as you've taken us through the story because he certainly has an openness to experimenting, given his pattern of engaging in fetish activities, but the reality is many adults engage in fetish behaviors or they have specific

interest, and that by itself isn't a disorder. In fact, it can be a normal variation of human sexuality when it's consensual and it's not harmful. And someone with a diagnosable fetish disorder has clinically significant distress related to their fetish, and the fetish interferes with their life and their relationships, or it causes some kind of personal suffering. And so far, there's no evidence that Peter was in distress about it or that it impaired his functioning. If anything, it seems he integrated it into his social and sexual life. But if he had sexual fantasies that are violent and hidden from others, that would be more concerning given what we already know of, especially if they are acted upon without consent.

Despite Peter's seemingly open sexuality, he continued to keep his most violent fantasies a secret. But the more successful he became, the more they started to show. After Freya's success, Peter set his sights even higher with his second submarine he called Crocka. It was an enormous project that required over 3,600 hours of build time. But Peter made it happen. Krakha was powered by a diesel-electric engine and was one of only three of its kind in the entire world that was owned by private citizens.

It was yet another success to add to his growing list. Both Krakha and Freya likely held another record as well, being the only submarines ever loaned out for the filming of a pornographic movie. Peter provided both of them to the producers of an adult film. And his rule-breaking attitude didn't just win him, By the late aughts, Peter had started to gain real influence. At 37, he'd become something of an anti-establishment figure in Denmark. He started a blog where he spoke out against traditional bureaucratic systems, mocked government

red tape, and painted himself as a brilliant outsider doing what big organizations couldn't. Peter's attitude made him so popular that when he launched a crowdfunding campaign for his next endeavor, he raised over 200,000 U.S. dollars. With that money, he set out to build a bigger, better submarine called the Nautilus. Peter's hope was that one day the Nautilus would tow his very own rockets out to sea so that he could launch them from international waters where there were fewer rules and regulations. On May 3, 2008, after three years of building, Peter finally launched the Nautilus on its maiden voyage. And it was another huge win. It operated perfectly. Now that he had the sub of his dreams, Peter wanted something bigger to bring the rest of his

vision to life. That same month, he co-founded a company called Copenhagen Suborbital, alongside his friend, a Danish architect, named Christian von Bingsdon. Together, they laid out their plan to build and launch Denmark's first privately built space rocket. And after they launched the company's website, their vision quickly gained traction. Almost overnight, nearly 50 people reached out. Some of them wanted to volunteer, while others offered sponsorship or other donations. Peter was over the moon. And his personal life was thriving too.

When Peter turned 40, he married his first wife. She worked in the local film industry and had said, spent time volunteering for his company. She'd also agreed to an open relationship, which was perfect for Peter who wanted to keep attending sex parties and pursue his various kinks. But soon enough, though, Peter realized he had no time for sexual conquests. He was working all the time, and the stress was starting to get to him. His temper at work became volatile. One minute he was charming and energized, but the next he'd spiral into rage. Volunteers said that if something didn't go his way, he would have childlike tantrums

and even throw screwdrivers or hammers across the room. Peter's temper wasn't the only thing that made his workers uncomfortable. He also had a disturbing sense of humor. He often made jokes about being a Nazi or said he was going to inject battery acid into people's veins. For the most part, people laughed it off, or at least they tried to, Peter was an HR nightmare, But luckily for him, suborbitales didn't have that department. So it sounds like you're describing possible moodability, which is the rapid shift between moods like high energy, enthusiasm, and then irritability or anger. And this can be associated with a few different things.

Sometimes it's linked to personality traits, especially in people who struggle with emotional regulation. Other times it can be tied to stress, overwork, or underlying mental health conditions. Often, it's immediately stigmatized as bipolar disorder. when that's not necessarily the case. When we're trying to understand this kind of mood shift or behavior, we have to evaluate context and environmental triggers. Stress can have profound effects on physical and emotional health. And what stands out here is how the imbalance between his career demands

and his sexual expression seem to create stress intolerance that fueled that instability. And if we recall, it's possible and even likely that Peter blurred the line between his sexual identity and his professional identity. His inventions and his image as this daring engineer became part of how he attracted attention and admiration, as well as intimacy. In other words, work was tied to his sense of sexual and personal validation, and now his work was demanding more from him

and offering lessen return in his eyes. And without experiences that fed his sense of admiration and desirability, it would make sense that he would have these disproportionate, outbursts like this. And broadly speaking, since I certainly can't diagnose him, I've never met him, when someone is described as fun but also volatile, particularly like this, and the volatility is possibly related to stress or impatience or even unmet needs for validation, it often points to underlying issues with self-regulation, entitlement, impulse control, and in some cases, a lack of empathy. Regardless of his problematic behavior, Peter's hard

working nature did eventually allow him to bring suborbital to new heights, because soon the company was building rockets, like he'd always dreamed of. But this still wasn't good enough for Peter. Even though they pulled off a few rocket launches, he had his sight set on something bigger. Peter wanted to be inside a capsule when it breached Earth's atmosphere. Most people at the company thought that was a long way off, but Peter insisted they were ready. However, by 2014, he and his co-founder, Christian, soon budded heads over this. Christian had safety concerns, and he thought Peter was being reckless. He didn't want to run that kind of company.

Plus, he started to feel like Peter's anger issues were too unmanageable. Meanwhile, Peter couldn't understand why Christian wanted to go home to his family each night. He thought everyone should work around the clock like he did. Even though Peter was also married, he didn't care at all about spending time with his wife. Christians started to lose a lot of respect for Peter's way of life. And eventually, Christians stepped away from the company entirely. This was the last straw for the rest of the team. Most of them blamed Peter for Christian's departure and felt he'd sabotaged their entire mission.

In their eyes, Peter's inability to collaborate showed he wasn't working toward the common goal they all thought they shared. That tension hit a breaking point. And in June of 2014, Peter was pushed. out of his own company. Peter's ongoing behavioral dysregulation at work is actually really telling. Like we talked about, if his identity was tightly fused

with his work, then criticism of the project likely felt like criticism of him. The control piece is equally telling. When a person struggles with insecurity or has narcissistic traits, being in charge provides a sense of safety. If Peter dictated every detail,

then he didn't have to tolerate uncertainty or compromise, or even the possibility that others might outperform or outshine him. And that kind of control isn't about collaboration. It's about protecting his ego. His anger toward Christian for prioritizing family is also really telling. Peter seemed to interpret it not as a healthy boundary, but as a weakness, potentially, or even a betrayal.

And that tells us that for Peter, relationships weren't about mutual respect. They were transactional. People were valuable only as long as they supported his vision or his interests or even his endgame. So when you put it together, the defensiveness that he has and his need for control point to deeper dynamics. It's a fragile self-image, an inability to handle vulnerability, and a reliance on dominance to maintain his superiority. What are the risks of someone like this, like Peter, being rejected by people who he thinks are supposed to follow and admire him? In these situations, we often see a few possible outcomes or risks. some people respond with rage by lashing out, blaming others, or escalating risky behavior to prove

their worth. Others turn it inward into shame and depression or withdrawal because if admiration disappears, so does their sense of value. And in more extreme cases, rejection can fuel vindictiveness or destructive behavior, especially if the person interprets it as a betrayal. But what is common, though, is poor self-regulation. If self-worth is entirely dependent, on how others respond, then rejection feels catastrophic to them. And that's concerning because it can drive impulsive decisions, interpersonal conflict, or even aggressiveness aimed at regaining control or restoring a damaged ego. Peter had built suborbitales from the ground up.

Now it was moving on without him, but he didn't let it keep him down for long. Just weeks after leaving suborbital, Peter launched a new company with pretty much the exact same mission. He secured funding from a Norwegian millionaire and named his new company Rocket Madsen Space Lab. Even though Peter had a reputation for being difficult to work with, many people were still drawn to his vision and wanted to work for him. Just like at Suborbital's, he quickly pulled together a team of interns and volunteers who wanted to be part of something groundbreaking. Peter's new setup was gritty, industrial, and exactly the kind of blank canvas that he liked.

He set up shop in a warehouse that was right across the shipyard from Copenhagen Suborbital's. Every day, Peter could look out and see his old company moving on without him. That constant reminder lit a fire in him. With the launch of his new project, he wasn't just back to building rockets and sailing the Nautilus. He was locked into his own personal space race. Peter needed to make atmospheric entry before Suborbitales did. he had to prove to the world that he was the one worth following. So he spent every waking hour in his warehouse.

Soon, his obsessive nature started to bleed into his personal life, too. Sex parties and fetish porn were no longer enough to satiate him. Peter needed real danger to keep him feeling alive and in control. And since he couldn't find it, then he'd make it happen. This episode is brought to you by Square. You're not just running a restaurant, you're building something big, and Square's there for all of it, giving your customers more ways to order, whether that's in-person with Square Ciosk or online.

Instant access to your sales, plus the funding you need to go even bigger. And real-time insights so you know what's working, what's not, and what's next. Because when you're doing big things, your tools should too. Visit square.ca to get started. When you support Movember, you're not just fundraising. You're showing up for the men you love. Your dad, your brother, your partner, your friends. It isn't just a men's issue.

It's a human one. That's why Movember exists. To change the face of men's health. From mental health and suicide prevention to prostate and testicular cancer research and early detection, Movember is tackling the biggest health issues facing men today. Join the movement and donate now at Movember.com. Scary Story podcast brings original short scary stories right to your ears every week.

Like Dead of Night, the story of a man who moves into a new apartment building only to discover its sinister foundation. For another recent one, Sessions, for the classic tale of an imaginary friend turns even darker. You can join us by searching for Scary Story Podcast on your app right now. It's the show by Scary FM. I'll see you over there. That's a scary story podcast. In 2017, if you asked 46-year-old Peter Madsen

how things were going at his company, Rocket Madsen Space Labs, he would have said his team was making steady progress toward their first manned rocket launch. But in reality, Peter was three years into the new venture and he was no closer to his goal than when he started. He still had his submarine named the Nautilus, which he continued to parade around as a huge success, it was what helped Peter carry a sort of mythos around Denmark.

He was seen as a boundary pusher and bold thinker, and people found themselves continuously drawn to his confidence, ambition, and intensity. Let's talk about the effects when someone keeps receiving validation and praise even after their actual achievements have leveled off, like this case. For one, constant praise can reinforce grandiosity in someone like people. If people keep celebrating or validating someone in the absence of new achievements like this, it can create the illusion that they're untouchable above criticism and entitled to admiration regardless of what they do or don't do.

And if we recall from Peter's childhood, that illusion may have started with his father, sparing him from abuse, creating a core belief that he was special, that he was chosen, or in some ways superior. Secondly, it can create a dependence on external validation. If admiration keeps coming in like this, it can teach someone that what matters isn't the work itself or what you're producing, it's the attention that it brings. And that can lead someone to engage in more stunts or risky behaviors or public theatrics to maintain the spotlight. And finally, this kind of praise can actually increase volatility. Because like we already talked about, if your sense of self is inflated by constant validation than any hint of criticism or rejection or disinterest becomes all the more threatening.

So in Peter's case, all of that ongoing celebration may have created grandiosity and made him reliant possibly on admiration. And ultimately, he's become more sensitive to even minor rejections. And when that goes unchecked, that can become really dangerous in individuals like him. How is it possible for someone to go so long believing they're so special without actually achieving what they promised or even set out to do. Some individuals can develop grandiose self-concepts. They truly do believe that they are destined for greatness or are superior, and that belief can then become self-sustaining.

And social validation plays a huge role in that because it can create a feedback loop that strengthens that self-concept. And after a while, let's say in Peter's case, that becomes more important than anything he could or would create. And psychologically, there's often an avoidance. of vulnerability there too. Admitting any kind of failure would mean confronting insecurity

or self-doubt and even shame and for someone who relies on an admiration to feel valuable, especially when they have narcissistic traits, that's intolerable. So that avoidance strengthens the belief for that self-concept. It's self-protective

and it's definitely a self-serving distortion. Of the many people fascinated by Peter, one was a 30-year-old Swedish journalist named Kim Wall. Kim grew up in Denmark, and in March of 2017, she was visiting her boyfriend, a man named Ol Stoby in Copenhagen. The couple were on a walk in the shipyard where Suborbital and Madsen Labs were located, when she noticed Peter's submarine.

She was instantly curious. Kim had spent her career as a reporter traveling all over the world, often covering stories about rebellion and alternative movements. And when Kim learned more about who Peter Madsen was, she realized she'd stumbled on to her next big story. She reached out to both Copenhagen Suborbital's and Madsen Labs, hoping to interview each side of the so-called Danish space race. Suborbitales responded to her request, but Peter didn't. Maybe Peter didn't respond to Kim because he was busy working, or maybe he was preoccupied with something else entirely, something mind. darker.

Lately, Peter had become even more engrossed in violent sexual fantasies. Some days he spent hours looking up disturbing things like torture methods, executions, and dismemberment. But looking at these things online wasn't enough for Peter. He needed others around him to know about the dark corners where his mind lurked. So he started leaving his searches up on his computer at work for his employees to see, including grotesque, violent pornography. It was deeply unsettling,

but when Peter's employees inevitably caught a glimpse of what he was looking at, no one said anything. They didn't want to cause problems, so instead, they looked the other way. His employees being afraid to say anything because they didn't want to cause problems

is just really showing us how volatile he must have been at work and what they expected in return. And so he's had an established pattern of behavior there that his employees had been exposed to. And this particularly is a disregard for social norms and boundaries. But also, he's limit testing and he's signaling that his interests or fantasies took priority over anyone else's comfort or consent. And that can be an assertion of dominance. Instead of keeping those violent fantasies private, where they should have been,

he put them into a shared space, almost as a way of normalizing them or even daring others to challenge him, knowing that they wouldn't. that allows him to stay in a sense of power. And in some ways, this also wasn't about sex. It was about control, intimidation, and forcing his environment to reinforce his identity. It also highlights how his need for control was tied to both sexuality and spectacle. Leaving violent pornography out wasn't just about personal gratification. It was about making others aware of his power to shock and unsettle or push boundaries. And that's a very different mindset from private interests. It's an outward display and it's designed to dominate the psychological space of the people around him. And that is

suggestive of sadistic traits, particularly if he got some kind of psychological gratification from their discomfort, which I'm suspecting was likely the case. What causes the link between sex and violence in some people? That's a very complex question and it certainly doesn't develop in everyone. But for some people, it starts with early exposure, whether to trauma, pornography, or environments where power and control were modeled as part of relationships. The brain begins to wire arousal not to intimacy, but to domination or aggression itself. And over time, that pairing can crystallize. So eventually, sex without power or violence feels less stimulating. There's also an additional psychological piece as well. For individuals with traits like entitlement, poor empathy,

or antisocial tendencies, sex can become less about connection and more about the control. And violence amplifies that sense of control. It ensures that one person is dominant and the other is submissive. And in that framework, sexual gratification is inseparable from the experience of power. And to be clear, I'm speaking about when this happens in a non-consensual way, because there are instances where, you know, dominant and submissive dynamics are at play in a consenting relationship. And that's entirely different. The workplace wasn't the only area of Peter Madsen's life

where he tried to create shock value. He did it to his own friends too. The Hulu original series Murdoch Death and the Family dives into secrets, deception, murder, and the fall of a powerful dynasty. Inspired by shocking actual events and drawing from the hit podcast, this series brings the drama to the screen like never before. Starring Academy Award winner Patricia Arquette and Jason Clark.

Watch the Hulu original series Murdoch Death in the Family. Streaming October 15th on Disney Plus. At the Nissan All In Clearout, there's nothing more chill than financing an award-winning Nissan for just 0%. Enjoy the soothing relaxation of zero stress, zero worries, zero indecision. Hurry in, because once they're gone, there will be zero left. During the Nissan all-in clear-out, get zero percent financing plus up to $500 bonus on some of our best-selling models. You have zero reasons to wait. Conditions apply.

See your local Nissan dealer today. In August of 2017, one of Peter's former employees, who he had also briefly dated, texted him for help with a video art project she was trying to finish. She needed motivation and asked Peter to send her something threatening to get her to do her, work. She was expecting playful banter, but Peter took it to an extreme. He said he would cut her jugular with a utility knife. Then he went on to describe how he wanted to tie her up and impale her on a roasting spit. As the conversation went on, Peter told the woman he had a murder plan ready to go, one that he would carry out aboard his submarine. A few minutes later, she replied saying that this wasn't scary enough

and asked him to threaten her more. So Peter described the tools he would use to kill her. After that, he switched gears and suggested they could lure someone else on board the submarine and kill and dismember them together. So let's talk about a little bit more the difference between a consensual fantasy and an actual violent mindset,

especially when it comes to a conversation like this between past partners. Many people have fantasies that involve power dynamics, like I mentioned, role play, you know, between submissive and dominant or even aggression. But when they're consensual, they remain in the realm of imagination or mutual agreement. And that's very, very different from a truly violent mindset where the goal isn't mutual pleasure and trust, but instead is about dominance, harm, or humiliation. So in consensual fantasy, boundaries are respected. and the other person's autonomy matters. There is a very strong foundation of trust there.

And to some degree, that mutual agreement actually appears to be occurring here because she is asking him to do this and asking for more even after he expressed violent thoughts. So on the surface, this suggests that they may have had a history of role play or mutual interests. Now, when it comes to violent jokes, we have to be careful not to over pathologize either. People sometimes make dark or off-color jokes without ever meaning to act on them. But when someone repeatedly makes violent jokes, especially ones that line up with their fantasies or future actions, that can be psychologically meaningful. Humor can become a socially acceptable mask for something darker.

It lets the person test reactions, desensitize others, or even rehearse their own comfort with the idea in a less vulnerable way. And Peter has been testing reactions for some time now. Now, in fact, research and case studies in forensic psychology show that some violent offenders actually foreshadow their crimes like this. They might make offhand comments or dark jokes or disturbing statements about violence long before they act. Why? Because it serves a psychological purpose. Sometimes it's a form of boasting or, like I said, limit testing. And for some, planting seeds of their darker self in front of others without being stopped is part of the thrill.

So the difference comes down to intention and pattern. A one-off dark joke doesn't mean someone is violent. But leaving violent pornography out when you know that is not a pro-social thing to do, that that's not even actually a legal thing to do in most places. Or when the violent humor becomes a repeated theme and it aligns with internal fantasies or it's tied to a need for control, that's usually not just about a joke anymore. That can be a warning sign. Peter came up with these scenarios for his former employee so quickly and seemed naturally.

What does it say about his mind? Yeah, I think there's two things here. I think it's highly likely that the nature of his relationship with this employee when they were intimate was built on sexual kinks that did involve power dynamics. But I also think that it's an indication he may have been fantasizing about this for some time. And remember how I said it was a little alarming that in his 30s suddenly this was something he was interested. And that's atypical. Typically, those things really start to show themselves in adolescence around puberty. And if we think back to his pattern when he invited a sex worker on a submarine and fixated on the spot that she touched and how he seemed to equate sexuality with his career, thoughts like these likely had been brewing for some time and he's just now starting to bring them to the surface little by little. It's a form of escalation. He started testing this at his other company and it's evolved into this point. Well, at the time, this woman didn't think much of it. It was all just a part of the strange fantasy dynamic the two had built.

But pretty soon, Peter proved that it wasn't just an act. Out of nowhere, on August 10, 2017, Peter finally responded to journalist Kim Wall. More than five months had passed since she'd first reached out. But now, Peter said he was finally available for an interview that same night. He had reached her just in time because Kim and her boyfriend were getting ready for an upcoming move to Beijing the following week. In fact, the day Peter responded to Kim

was the same day as her going away party. For Kim, it felt like the perfect opportunity to squeeze in one last assignment before leaving the continent. So she and Peter made a plan to meet at his warehouse at 7 p.m. that evening. That way, she could still make it back to her party on time. Kim's partner, on the other hand, was hesitant.

Oll didn't love the idea of Kim going alone and offered to join her, but Kim reassured him that she had been in much more dangerous situations than this. So as the sun set over the harbor, Kim set out to meet Peter Madsen. She thought she was about to explore the mind of a brilliant inventor. But really, she was walking into the clutches of a psychopath. Thanks so much for listening. Come back next time for the conclusion of our deep dive on Peter Madsen. Killer Minds is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios.

Here at Crime House, we want to thank each and every one of you for your support. If you like what you heard today, reach out on Instagram at Crimehouse. And don't forget to rate, review, and follow Killer Minds wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly makes a difference. And to enhance your listening experience, subscribe to Crimehouse Plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode of Killer Minds ad-free, along with early access to each thrilling two-part series and exciting Crime House bonus content. Killer Minds is hosted by me, Vanessa Richardson, and Dr. Tristan Engels, and is a crimehouse original powered by Pave Studios.

This episode was brought to life by the Killer Minds team. Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Benadon, Lori Marinelli, Natalie Pritzowski, Sarah Camp, Kate Murdoch, Markey Lee, Sarah Batchelor, Sarah Tardiff, and Carrie Murphy. Thank you for listening.