Mind of a Serial Killer - SERIAL KILLER: "The Shoe Fetish Slayer” Pt. 2

Episode Date: May 8, 2025

Jerry Brudos murdered four women—and kept their bodies as trophies. In Part 2, the investigation into Jerry Brudos' crimes uncovers a terrifying confession, gruesome photos, and the sickening evidence found in his garage. Find out how the Shoe Fetish Slayer was finally brought to justice. Killer Minds is a Crime House Original Podcast, powered by PAVE Studios. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. For ad-free listening and early access to episodes, subscribe to Crime House+ on Apple Podcasts. Don’t miss out on all things Killer Minds! Instagram: @killerminds | @Crimehouse TikTok: @Crimehouse Facebook: @crimehousestudios X: @crimehousemedia YouTube: @crimehousestudios To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is Crime House. We all have mementos, little pieces from our past that help us relive our favorite memories, maybe a seashell from a beach vacation or a treasured family heirloom. But for Jerry Brudos, his mementos took on a very different form. Like some other serial killers, Jerry felt the need to keep something from his victims after he killed them. But unlike many other serial killers, it wasn't enough for Jerry to keep wallets, accessories, or other little mementos. He needed everything.

He needed their bodies. These gruesome tokens helped him replay their deaths so he could experience the thrill of his conquests over and over. And when that stopped being enough, he went out looking for more. The human mind is powerful. It shapes how we think, feel, love, and hate. But sometimes it drives people to commit the unthinkable. This is Killer Minds, a Crime House original. I'm Vanessa Richardson. And I'm Dr. Tristan Engels.

Every Monday and Thursday, we uncover the darkest minds in history, analyzing what makes a killer. Crime House is made possible by you. Please rate, review, and follow Killer Minds in history, analyzing what makes a killer. A warning, this episode contains depictions of sexual assault, necrophilia, and murder. Listener discretion is advised. Today we're concluding our deep dive on Jerry Brudos, who claimed the lives of four women in Salem, Oregon from 1968 to 1969. He was known as the Lust Killer or the Shoe Fetish Slayer for his obsession with women's clothing and for violating his victims after they died.

Last time we explored Jerry's traumatic childhood and followed his transformation from a troubled young adult into a deadly killer. In this episode we'll examine how Jerry's overconfidence led to his ultimate undoing. We'll track the investigation into his crimes and how he was finally brought to justice. And as Vanessa goes through the story, I'll be talking about things like how Jerry risked capture with his arrogant behavior, his strange decision to confess before even being charged, and the psychology behind his last-ditch attempt to evade justice. And as always we'll be asking the question

what makes a killer? Hey it's Vanessa and if you love killer minds where we take you deep into the psychology of history's most chilling murders, then you have to check out Clues with Morgan Absher and Kailyn Moore. Every Wednesday, Kailyn and Morgan take you deep into the world of the most notorious crimes ever, clue by clue. And one thing I find really interesting about Clues is how they break down the ways that even the smallest pieces of evidence can crack a case wide open. From serial killers to shocking murders, Clues dives into all the forensic details and brilliant sleuthing of the world's most infamous cases.

Clues is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. New episodes drop every Wednesday. Just search Clues wherever you listen to podcasts. In April of 1969, 30-year-old Jerry Brudos killed his fourth confirmed victim, 22-year-old Linda Salley. But when he dumped her remains in the Long Tom River in Salem, Oregon, he wasn't careful enough. Linda's body floated to the water's surface and was found on May 10.

Just a few days after that, police divers also discovered the body of Jerry's third victim, 19-year-old Karen Sprinker, in the same part of the river. The authorities were pretty sure they were dealing with a serial killer now, and the suspect had left some clues about his identity. The victim's bodies had been weighed down with auto parts, the killer had used nylon rope to tie them down, and fastened them with knots typically seen in electrical work. It was a promising start to the investigation, but if the authorities wanted to find the killer, they needed to narrow things down a little more.

And when they learned that Karen Sprinker had been a student at Oregon State University in Corvallis, they started by looking there. However, none of Karen's friends had any useful information. She wasn't dating anyone suspicious, and hadn't gotten any strange phone calls they were aware of. If she'd been stalked on campus, nobody knew it. But that's because Karen hadn't been stalked, at least not at school. Jerry had attacked her when they crossed paths in a parking lot about a month earlier, but

the police had no idea about any of that. So over the next few weeks, detectives kept talking to students at Oregon State. And in a stroke of luck, they actually got a lead. It turned out there was a red-haired, pudgy man who had recently been approaching young women on campus. After making small talk, he would ask them on dates. Most of the women got a bad feeling about him and said no. But one lonely student who preferred to remain anonymous actually took him up on the offer, and they went out for a soda.

She told police the man's name was Jerry, and the encounter had been horrifying. Jerry told her how lonely he was and how he had awful dark thoughts. He seemed hyper-focused on the two dead women that were pulled out of the Long Tom River. Then Jerry looked at the young woman and allegedly said, You don't think I'm the kind of man who would take you to the river and strangle you, do you? So whenever there is a suspected serial killer, people start talking. Communities pay attention. And Jerry is someone who gets pleasure from the psychological fear or torment of others. So going to a university campus where he knows there's a concentration of women,

to speak with them was a fishing expedition. He wanted to know what they knew, how they felt, and if they were afraid. This just adds to his thrill, especially because in his fantasies, he's controlling women physically and emotionally. That was really bold. Is it common for serial killers to be this arrogant? Absolutely. I mean, his arrogance has just continued to get more and more strong every time he gets away with these things, especially for serial killers who have traits of psychopathy, because they're thrill seeking, they're superficially charming, and they have that inflated sense of self-worth. We've seen these behaviors,

we've seen this level of arrogance in previous serial killers like Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer, even Joseph DiAngelo and there's so many more just like this. Thankfully, Jerry never got the chance to hurt that young woman. But the experience rattled her. She quickly ended the date and hurried back to campus. That was very smart of her. She told the police she'd triedried back to campus. That was very smart of her. She told the police she'd tried to put her encounter with Jerry out of her mind. She never wanted to see him again. Except the police had other ideas. They were very interested in this Jerry, especially because a few weeks earlier, a 15-year-old girl had reported that a

man matching his description tried to kidnap her. They didn't know the guy's name, but the kidnapping attempt had been just a few days before Linda Salley was killed. They were pretty sure that this was their suspect. However, there wasn't anyone matching Jerry's description in the police's database. And without a last name, it would be nearly impossible to find him. If they wanted to track him down, they'd have to be clever. So they decided to set a trap. They asked the college student who'd gone out with Jerry

to say yes if he called for another date. As much as she hated the idea, she agreed. At the end of May, Jerry did call to ask for that second date. The young woman agreed to see him in an hour. But when Jerry showed up at their designated meeting place, all he found was the police waiting to question him. First, I just wanted to say to the anonymous young woman who agreed to do this, as scary as it was, she was courageous and she was a huge part in what's to come. Again, I know I've said this already, but it begs repeating,

but this is another resemblance to Jeffrey Dahmer and his psychopathology, although Jeffrey being a little bit more severe. When Jeffrey brought home one of his victims, Luis Panet and Luis fell asleep in Jeffrey's arms, Jeffrey chose not to kill him because Luis was the only victim that he had brought home that did not try to leave, and therefore he did not feel rejected by him. And this is similar to that because out of all the women on campus that Jerry approached and that he asked out on a date, this is the only woman who did not reject him. She agreed to this date with

him. And I think this was why he wanted to see her again. He was curious about her. Seeing her again was likely motivated by his desire to test her limits. At what point would she become visibly uncomfortable or scared? Or would she surprise him and be this idea of maybe a living obedient doll? I think his curiosity is why he chose to call her after that first date. How would Jerry feel at seeing police waiting for him at this point? Does he seem like the type of person to panic or with his track record so far? Would he think he could just talk his way out of it? Yeah, I think if anything, I could see Jerry being upset that someone conned him. panic or with his track record so far? Would he think he could just talk his way out of it?

Yeah, I think if anything, I could see Jerry being upset that someone conned him instead of the other way around. In this case, like he was the one manipulated for a change, but that's not going to affect how he reacts in this situation necessarily, because Jerry has had near misses with law enforcement already. And despite that, he has been successful in navigating them. He will turn into a chameleon, like most psychopaths do, and use that superficial charm, that glibness, all to regain control and attempt to manipulate the police, because this has always worked for him. It's worked even when he's lured victims.

However, Jerry felt at that moment he had to answer the police's questions now. They learned his full name and that he worked as an electrician, which aligned with what they knew about their suspect so far. But it was hard to believe the pudgy man in front of them was a serial killer, and not just because of his unassuming appearance. Although he was being questioned by police, he was oddly at ease, cordial, friendly even. And even if they did think Jerry was their suspect, they didn't have anything to detain

him on, so for the moment they had to let him go. But for the sake of due diligence, the police decided to run a full background check on Jerry and what they learned was very troubling. The police found out about Jerry's psychiatric stay at the Oregon State Hospital when he was a teenager, and that he had a history of assault. It also turned out that Jerry had lived in the same neighborhood where a young woman named Linda Slauson, his first victim, had gone missing. Not only that, but his commute to work took him past the spot where Jan Whitney, Jerry's second victim, had left her car on the highway.

On top of that, his job was only six miles from where Linda Salley and Karen Sprinker's bodies had been discovered, and he currently lived just a couple minutes from where Karen had gone missing. It wasn't enough for the police to get a warrant, but it was enough to make them look into Jerry further. So the next day they went to Jerry's house to ask him more questions, and what they were about to find would completely change the investigation. to check out Clues with Kaylin Moore and Morgan Absher. Every Wednesday, Morgan and Kaylin take you deep into the world of the most notorious crimes ever, clue by clue.

And one thing I find really interesting about Clues is how they break down the ways that even the smallest pieces of evidence can crack a case wide open. From serial killers to shocking murders, Clues dives into all the forensic details and brilliant sleuthing of the world's most infamous cases. If you're looking for a show that has compelling storytelling, crime scene analysis, and a

new perspective through some of the world's most puzzling true crime cases, then you have to check out Clues. Clues is a crime house original powered by Pave Studios. New episodes drop every Wednesday. Just search Clues wherever you listen to podcasts. On May 26, 1969, two officers knocked on 30-year-old Jerry Brudos' door. Like the previous day, when they'd first spoken to him, Jerry didn't seem nervous at all. In fact, when the officers asked to take a look in his garage, the place he'd killed multiple women and violated their bodies, he actually agreed.

Jerry stood by and watched as the officers examined the garage. There were bits of electric wire scattered around, which looked a lot like the wire that had helped weigh down Linda Slauson and Karen Sprinker. Also right there out in the open was a nylon rope. It was tied with the same knots that had been used to bind the women's bodies. Jerry noticed their interest in the rope, but instead of trying to deflect their attention, he offered to give them some. Psychopaths don't respond to emotional situations in

the same way that prosocial people respond to them because they have decreased connections to the area of the brain that controls fear, anxiety, empathy, or guilt. Instead, they begin mirroring what they think is appropriate for the situation, and that behavior is often incongruent with the context. So, for example, most people would experience panic when law enforcement shows up at their home, especially after a near scare mere days prior. Or many would be resistant to even letting them search their home.

Instead, Jerry's deferring to manipulation and charm, while also leading police at the same time right to the evidence. Do you think Jerry might have thought that being defensive would only make him look guilty? Yeah, that's definitely possible. But more importantly, having any emotional reaction outside of what he's doing, including defensiveness,

relinquishes his control in the situation. If he doesn't have control, he is less successful in his attempts to manipulate. Well, I can tell you one thing. Jerry seemed to immediately regret giving the officers that rope. Of course, it was too late for that, though. The police didn't have enough to arrest Jerry for the murders yet, but they could charge him with attempted kidnapping. The same 15-year-old girl who'd been helping investigators also identified Jerry's picture in a photo lineup. Four days later, on May 30, 1969, a team of officers showed up at Jerry's house. But

he was nowhere to be found. His wife and kids were gone too. The officers started looking for Jerry's station wagon, and it wasn't long before they found it. Jerry and Ralphine were driving north toward Portland, Oregon. It seemed like they were heading for the Canadian border. When the police pulled them over, they found a packed bag in the trunk and a gun. The officers were able to add a weapons charge on top of the kidnapping and placed Jerry under

arrest. When they brought him down to the station, they discovered Jerry was wearing women's underwear. He allegedly said they were more comfortable. And after some initial resistance, he told them everything. Even though Jerry wasn't under arrest for the murders, he confessed to them anyway. He actually seemed proud of what he'd done, and the more he talked, the more excited he became, especially when it came to his love for women's shoes and underwear. At one point, a detective asked Jerry if he felt bad at all for the women he'd killed or for their families. In response, Jerry asked for a piece of paper. Then he balled it up and tossed it on the ground. According to the Lust Killer by author

Anne Rule, Jerry said, quote, I care about those girls as much as I care about that piece of wadded up paper. That piece of paper, that analogy is actually a great example of the mind of psychopaths. A lot of studies have been conducted over the years on the psychopathic brain, and the reality is their brain responds the same way to images of murder and violence as it does to images of say, puppies or cupcakes. They cannot discriminate a difference because they have an underactive limbic system. So to Jerry, those poor women really are the equivalent to him as that piece of wadded up paper.

Now, regarding the confessions, it's not uncommon for serial killers to confess. We've talked about this. Typically those who do confess do it for two reasons. First, they've already been convicted or they can no longer manipulate others into thinking that they're innocent. And second, they had something to gain from confessing. Usually they gain attention or some kind of stimulation. In Ted Bundy's case, it stayed his execution the more he talked. But what stands out about Jerry is that he is confessing before he's even been charged. Now, why is that? Well, Jerry was an opportunistic killer

with significant impulse control deficits. So to me, it's clear that he's not able to control his impulse to boast openly about this dark, sadistic side of him. And I think he's been wanting to be open about this. He's been wanting to boast about it for some time. It's not only a thrill in itself, it's also kind of freeing for him. So is it typical for serial killers to be proud of their crimes like this? Yes, it is.

But we have to remember, though, there are different types of serial killers with different motives. So serial killers whose motivation is financial, though much less common than other motivations, are less likely to be openly proud like this. An example would be Ray and Faye Copeland, which we also covered in a two-part episode, because to Ray it was business. He had no emotion about it. He wasn't openly bragging either because his killings were purely transactional to him, even his marriage. In my experience evaluating serial killers, those motivated by hedonism, anger, or thrill were the ones who are typically arrogant and proud.

And those traits of pride and arrogance lingered long after their convictions. Regardless of why Jerry confessed, that didn't mean he wanted to go down for his crimes. It seems like he thought he could say whatever he wanted to as long as there wasn't any hard evidence to back up his story. Because the day after his arrest, on June 1st, 1969,

he called his wife, Ralphine. He told her to go into the garage and burn any incriminating evidence. After years of subservience, Jerry expected Ralphine to go through with it, so without a second thought, he continued walking the detectives through the grisly details of his crimes. But even without any physical evidence yet, Jerry's confession was enough for the police to charge him with three counts of murder in early June 1969 for Karen Sprinker, Jan Whitney and Linda Salley.

Since Linda Slawson's body was never found, they didn't charge him for her death. After that, they were ready to gather the evidence, and they quickly received a search warrant for Jerry's home. When they arrived, they found piles of incriminating photos in Jerry's garage. It turned out Ralphine wasn't as obedient as Jerry thought. The photos confirmed all the horrific things Jerry had described. They documented every detail. They showed his victims while they were still alive.

Once they were dead, their bodies dressed in stolen lingerie placed in various poses. And there was no way for Jerry to argue that it was circumstantial, or the evidence had been planted somehow, because he was in some of the photos. Investigators also discovered the hook and pulley rig that Jerry used to hoist his victims off the ground. It was lying next to nylon cords, leather straps, and a chest full of women's clothing. And lastly, a horrifying plastic mold he'd taken of a severed female breast was laying on a desk. Jerry had been

using it as a paperweight. We covered some of these trophies in part one, but let's dive into these photographs because this is new information. Jerry's been fantasizing, like we've already outlined, about having these dolls that he can dress and keep for when he wants to use them for sexual gratification. And he attempted that in multiple ways, including keeping bodies on a pulley system for a short while in his garage,

or even keeping parts of a person's body in his freezer. But Jerry knows there is a time limit for those methods because they can't be preserved long term. So photographs, however, can serve the same purpose and last forever. And the fact that he's taking them before he killed them and after he dressed them as the dolls that he wanted really speaks to that. It's his collection of dolls to use whenever he wants

for as long as he wants. It seems like Jerry was also extremely confident that Ralph Fien was going to do as he wants. It seems like Jerry was also extremely confident that Ralph Fien was gonna do as he said. How might he have felt knowing the woman he thought he had the ultimate control over wasn't as loyal as he thought? Yeah, my immediate thought about that would be that this would enrage him since it's almost a form of abandonment to Jerry and it's also a loss of control.

However, at the same time, I don't think that her lack of obedience would be that shocking to Jerry either, given how strained their relationship has been since the birth of their son. Also, I think he knew that there was really no coming back from this with regard to his marriage and that maybe he's resigned to his fate at this point. This is his reality and he decided to focus on what he could control. It's not as if Jerry had any genuine love for Ralphine or their children. They served a purpose for him. That was hiding him in plain sight. That purpose is no longer useful right now. However Jerry felt about it, the evidence was overwhelming. But he still had one last trick up his sleeve.

It had worked before, and he was confident it would work again. In early June 1969, 30-year-old Jerry Brudos was charged with the murders of Karen Sprinker, Jan Whitney, and Linda Salley. Days later, the legal proceedings against him started when he was arraigned for Karen's murder. When asked to enter his plea, Jerry said, not guilty, by reason of insanity. That meant before the trial could move forward, he needed to be examined by a team, one that included five psychiatrists and two clinical psychologists. Jerry had used his traumatic past to his advantage before, when he was sent to the Oregon State Hospital as a teenager.

Back then, he'd successfully convinced his doctors he wasn't a threat to anyone, and now it seemed like he was going to use a similar strategy. Jerry told the doctors this time about how badly his mother had treated him when he was a kid. He talked about the rage he felt as he got older, and how after he'd been banished to the shed behind their house, he'd become detached from reality. Jerry also brought up the accident he'd suffered at work a few years earlier when he'd been electrocuted by a live wire. According to Jerry, that's when his problems really started.

He said that after the accident in 1967, he started to fantasize about putting women in a freezer to preserve them so he could play with them whenever he wanted, like dolls. None of the doctors who examined him were buying it though. While Jerry's childhood was tragic, it wasn't so traumatic that it altered Jerry's ability to tell the difference between right and wrong. And his accident wasn't an excuse either. It was clear that Jerry's fetish had become dangerous long before that. In the end, the doctors determined that Jerry did show signs of antisocial personality disorder and psychopathy. However, he was not criminally insane.

All to say, he knew exactly what he was doing when he hurt those girls and young women, and he was fit to stand trial for it. I think a lot of people listening to this right now and hearing the gruesome acts he's carried out would be thinking, how is he not insane? Honestly, given his case factors, it makes sense why they would at least try for that legal strategy. It's a due diligence on the part of his defense attorney.

But we have to remember that insanity is a legal term. It's not a clinical one. And to meet the threshold of insanity, Jerry would need to have a mental health condition that impairs his ability to distinguish right from wrong. Typically, those conditions are a psychotic disorder of some kind or severe mood disorder like bipolar one disorder. Jerry does not have one of these conditions. And I even pointed out in episode one that there does not seem to be any signs of actual psychosis. He is capable of rational thought, he's projecting the blame on his mother, he knows what he did was wrong, or he would not be hiding the evidence or hiding it from his family. He has multiple paraphilia disorders, sexual sadism, antisocial personality disorder, and psychopathy.

Yes, combined, this is all very severe in the sense that he does pose a significant risk to the public and should not be a free man. But these conditions don't impair his ability to rationally understand that his actions are legally wrong. So they got this right. What's the difference between antisocial personality disorder or signs of psychopathy but not actually being a psychopath? Where's the distinction there? Yeah, that's an excellent question because these terms are thrown around a

lot and can get confusing. The first thing to know is that psychopathy is not a formal clinical diagnosis, whereas antisocial personality disorder is. When someone is diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder and they present with a severe case of it, we often assess for psychopathy. And psychopathy is simply a measure of interpersonal and effective personality traits. We assess for the presence and extent of psychopathy traits using clinical assessment instruments. These instruments will provide us with a total score, and if it meets or exceeds the cutoff, then it's clinically significant for psychopathy. If they score

lower than the cutoff, then they may exhibit characteristics of psychopathy, but they're not clinically significant enough to be labeled a psychopath. We assess for psychopathy primarily for clinical or research purposes, legal reasons, and to assess the risk of future violence. Not all people with antisocial personality disorder have psychopathy. In fact, psychopathy is estimated to affect around only 1% of the general population, whereas antisocial personality disorder affects 1 to 4%. And working with incarcerated populations that's very saturated, I've seen a lot of antisocial personality disorder, but at a much higher rate than I ever did psychopathy.

Well, by June 24, 1969, three days before Jerry's trial was set to begin, it was clear the insanity defense wasn't going to work. So in order to avoid the death penalty, Jerry changed his plea to guilty. Afterwards, the judge made Jerry recount the three murders he'd been charged with so far for Karen Sprinker, Jan Whitney, and Linda Salley. When he was done, the judge sentenced Jerry to three consecutive terms of life imprisonment, but he still had the possibility of parole.

The case wasn't closed yet, though, because the authorities suspected Jerry might have had some help with his crimes, namely his wife, Ralphine. The police had a hard time believing Ralphine didn't know what Jerry was doing. And apparently she had burned a few of the photos Jerry asked her to destroy, even though the vast majority were left intact. Still, it was enough for prosecutors to put her on trial for being an accomplice to murder in September, 1969. On September 26th, a neighbor testified that she'd seen Ralphine help Jerry move a body

on March 27th, the day he killed Karen Sprinker. However, Ralphine's lawyers pointed out that wasn't possible. The window the neighbor claimed they watched the Brudos' through was blocked by trees. On top of that, Ralphine said she'd been out of the house that day, visiting her parents and some friends. After seven hours of deliberation, the jury sided with Ralphine. They found her not guilty. Following the verdict, she quickly filed for divorce and received full custody of their

kids in April of 1970. She changed their names and moved to an undisclosed location so they could move on with their lives. Seven hours of deliberation tells me the jury had a really hard time with this verdict, but ultimately they did find her not guilty. And we have to talk about the ripple effect that crime has because it doesn't discriminate against anyone. It does affect family of serial killers. Whether or not Ralphine was an accomplice, she has two children who are not. They are entirely innocent in all of this. And the reality is if she did not

move away and she did not change her last name, the whole family will continue to suffer because of Jerry's actions. Her children would have a hard time making friends. The parents of her friends might not want her to even be around their children or spend any time with them. They could be teased, tormented. They may even be victims of vandalism or assault. And this is in addition to the long-term psychological effects of learning about Jerry and what he was capable of. Family of an accused are at an increased risk of depression, anxiety, trauma, mistrusting their judgment, deficits in trusting others, and overall impairment in their ability to form any healthy attachments moving forward, it's really earth-shattering, and it can be very alienating. Carrie Rosson, the daughter of Dennis Rader, the BTK, she openly discusses this,

and she's a great resource for anyone seeking to understand the impact of this from the perspective of someone who's lived it. Thankfully, Ralphine and the kids never had to deal with Jerry again. And despite his multiple attempts to seek parole, it was never approved. Anytime he had a hearing, the prison was flooded with letters from people demanding that Jerry stay behind bars. And although Jerry was, by all accounts, a model prisoner, the parole board wasn't convinced he was a changed man. In 2003, they cut off Jerry's latest hearing after only 30 minutes.

His final hearing was in 2005. Once again, it was denied. And he never got another one. In 2006, 67-year-old Jerry passed away from liver cancer. He'd spent almost 37 years behind bars, making him the longest serving inmate in Oregon at the time. His death came as a relief to many of his victims' loved ones. Despite the horrible things Jerry had done, there was always a chance he could be released. With his passing, that possibility disappeared. And the world became a little safer because of it.

Thanks so much for listening. Come back next time for a deep dive into the mind of another murderer. Killer Minds is a Crime House original powered by PAVE Studios. Here at Crime House, we want to thank each and every one of you for your support. If you like what you heard today, reach out on all social media at Crime House. And don't forget to rate, review, and follow Killer Minds wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly does make a difference.

And to enhance your listening experience, subscribe to CrimeHouse Plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode of Killer Minds ad-free, along with early access to each thrilling two-part series and exciting bonus content. Killer Minds is hosted by me, Vanessa Richardson, and Dr. Tristan Engels, and is a Crime House Original powered by PAVE Studios. This episode was brought to life by the Killer Minds team.

Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Benedon, Lori Maranelli, Natalie Pertsovsky, Sarah Camp, Meredith Allen, Sarah Tardiff, and Carrie Murphy. Thank you for listening. How can one tiny clue change everything? Kailyn Moore and Morgan Absher break it all down on their new show, Clues. New episodes drop every Wednesday. Just search Clues wherever you listen to podcasts.