2964: Why You're Still Fat Even Though You Work Out (The Honest Answer)
00:00 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump. Mind Pump with your hosts. Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded health fitness and entertainment podcast in history approaching half a billion downloads. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode, we had callers call in who wanted help with their health and fitness. We had to coach them live on air.
00:28 but this was after the intro. Today's intro is 56 minutes long. In the intro today, we talked about why you're not losing body fat, even though you work out all the time. We talk about nutrition and exercise, current events, family life, bring up some studies. It's always fun. Look, if you want to be on an episode like this, if you want to call in and have Adam, Justin, or myself, coach you on air for free, send your question to MPLifecaller.com. Now, this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Joy Mode.
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02:07 deliver to you your own Maps program. All right, real quick, if you love us like we love you, why not show up by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at Mindpumpstor.com. I'm talking right now, hit pause, head on over to Mindpumpstor.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the You work out all the time. You're consistent with your training, but you're still fat. I didn't see that. Check it out. We have five reasons why this is happening.
02:37 This is almost always the case. If this is you and you're frustrated, you're working out, you're consistent. By the way, good job. That's good. That's still good. But you don't know why you can't get the fat off your body. We're going to help you fix it right now. Let's go.
02:52 Wow. You did. You did. That was right. You're normally so politically correct. That's like something I would do. That's something you would do. So I'm ready for that.
02:59 Well, it's a, it's a clickbait, you know, intro there. But hey, this is, listen, you know, you guys know this. We train people for a long time. This is frustrating for people. Yeah. This is what goes through their head. It does. And, you know, people, this happens to quite a few people who are really consistent with
03:18 their workouts. Like, they don't miss workouts. They go to the gym. And they're just so frustrated because they're still, you have a lot more body fat on the body like. What do they often say? I don't look like I work out. Like what's going on here?
03:31 And there's a reason for it. Now, it could be the workout, but we're not going to focus on the workout. We're going to focus on the things that most commonly are the culprit for this type of a frustration. Well, there's an old saying you can't outwork a bad diet, right? That's tough, but it's true. It is. And normally this person that you're describing right now is also the person that probably has a pretty decent workout routine already,
03:56 but yet still keeps leaning into like, there's something wrong with my workout. I need to train to failure more, or I need to do this other thing. Switching all the protocols. Yeah, and what it really is is we need to really peer into the diet. You know, you have not,
04:10 and or accept that you're not going to have the physique you want. You can still be strong. And you're going to be a lot healthier than somebody who didn't work out. That's right. And so this is why this is such an important conversation first with the client of like, because what you will get is you will get this kind of like these conflicting or things that they'll say. Like, I really want to be in shape and I want to look like I work out.
04:35 But then I also don't want to do, but I don't want to. I don't want to give up this. Yeah, I don't want to give up this. I don't want to track. I don't want to do any of these things. And it's like, okay, well, then you just keep doing what you're doing because you're strong and you're healthier than the version of you who doesn't lift weights. But if you want body composition change, if you want to reduce body fat, the person, the problem does not lie in the way you're lifting. It lies in what you're putting in your mouth.
04:59 100%. That's what we need to fix. 100%. So again, I want to say this very clearly. If you're overweight, over fat and you work out, your health is a lot better than if you didn't work out. That's number one. Also, if you were fit and not over fat, you'd be a lot healthier than you are fit and over fat. So body fat, regardless of fitness, still plays a role when it gets up to a certain point. Now, I'm not talking about being shredded. That's typically aesthetic. That's more of a vanity thing. But there is body fat percentages where regardless of your fitness level, regardless of your stamina and your strength, it starts to play a role in your health.
05:38 This healthy ranges is outside of health ranges. That's right. And also, mainly, let's be honest, most people are concerned about this for the aesthetic purposes. It's like, I work out like crazy. I don't look like I work out and I want to figure out, you know, what's happening. Now, what you said, Adam, you can't outwork a bad diet. But here's where that comes from.
05:56 And by the way, there's lots of studies on this, lots of studies where they just use exercise as a method for weight loss or fat loss. And it's very ineffective. It's just very difficult. Now, it's better than nothing. That's for sure. But look, here's a fact.
06:12 burning a thousand calories through activity takes a lot of work everybody it takes a lot of work the average person by the way sometimes you'll get on a cardio machine that tells you you burn a thousand calories it's lying the reality is to burn a thousand calories through exercise and activity takes over an hour
06:32 for most people closer to two hours of vigorous intense activity which is that's a lot of work to burn a thousand calories on the flip side to consume a thousand calories is a piece. It's easy. Yeah. It's so easy.
06:48 We do it on accident. We do it on accident. It's pleasurable. It's not hard work. And so when you put those head to head, it's like, yeah, trying to burn off what I ate when I'm eating in a particular way. Like, that's a terrible strategy. It's so, we talked a little bit about this the other day about, like, this is the part that I, like, never understood, like, with the logic behind this of the cardio approach to, like, like burning body fat,
07:14 at least in my eyes, it is far easier to resist the temptation of that thing that's 250 to 300 calories than it is to get on an hour of a piece of equipment. I literally had this last night. And so I had this,
07:29 I haven't had a craving for ice cream in a while. It had it in. I was like, oh man, we have these little 250 calorie, like ice cream. Which sounds like nothing. Someone listening around out was 250. Yes, 250. That's not a lot.
07:41 Okay? and I'm like, man, I really want that. And it's like, and I totally could have it. I've been low calorie this night, but I'm also on this aggressive fat loss goal right now. And so I'm like, that's me walking on the treadmill for an hour. And so I'm thinking to myself, am I willing to get up tomorrow morning before work
07:59 and get on the treadmill and walk for an hour? I just picture someone walking on a treadmill eating the little 10-250-calor ice cream thing while they're doing it. And that was, this is literally what was going through my head. Like, I absolutely can, but I also don't want to, I'm on this consistent track right now. Okay, so what does that look like? Oh, it looks like what I wouldn't do tomorrow anyway, today, which is today, I wouldn't
08:20 get up at six and go walk before work. I would do my normal routine because I'm not doing that right now. So if I want this and I don't want to go backslide from the plan and the diet that everything I'm on right now, then if I eat this, then I got to get up tomorrow at six and do an hour or one. I'm like, God, no. Like, I want that. It's not that good.
08:37 It's not that good. It's not worth it. And so it's easier for me to say, discipline myself to not do that, that it is to do that and then try and cancel it with activity. Right. No, 100%. And yes, of course, this can go into dysfunctional directions. What we're not saying here is you can't enjoy those things.
08:56 If we talk a lot about down on the podcast, the majority of what we talk about. But what we're talking about specifically, again, is this person who's working out a lot and they're consistent and they can't figure out why they can't get leaner. I'll give you the first reason why this is a challenge. You eat out. Oh, yeah. Okay? You just eat out.
09:13 You eat out daily. One meal a day. This is a lot of people, by the way. A lot of people eat out once a day. Usually it's lunch, right? They're at work. They eat out lunch. Here's the truth, okay?
09:26 The average meal eaten out, if you look it up, the average calories in a meal served by a restaurant, fast food or otherwise, is anywhere between 1,400 to 1,400 calories. It just is. It just is. even when you're trying to pick the healthy option. I was just at the Cheesecake Factory with my family the other day. And Cheesecake Factory, a lot of places don't even do this, but Cheesecake Factory lists their calories under their meals.
09:54 Their salads are 1,400 calories. Now, if it didn't list the calories, and I know food, right? So I know I can look at a salad. I know what the ingredients are, so I know it's high calorie. But the average person would be like, oh, you know what? I'm trying to cut my calories. I'm going to get the Southwest chicken salad. Salad is the go-to.
10:09 Yeah. Yeah. It's like, I'm going to be healthy. I'm going to eat the Southwest chicken salad. That's 1400 calories right there. I might as well eat a burger, you know, type of deal. Their low calorie options were six to 700 calories. Yeah.
10:21 Which is high calorie for a lot of people who are trying to eat in a way that causes fat loss. Restaurants do not make money by selling food that is low calorie and super healthy. Fact. Restaurants make money by selling food that tastes good. Even healthy restaurants. If a healthy restaurant serves food that doesn't taste good. Which means more butter and then sugar and all that stuff they add in the oil. Oil butter.
10:48 We know the rules with FDA with 20% room to play. And I'm telling you guys right now that that's what that's what the rules are. That I'm willing to bet that 80% are not even playing by those rules. Come on, you got cooks in the back. You think they're measuring everything. Nobody is. And nobody's coming around regulating this. No.
11:08 Okay. And if you think I'm full of shit, here's what you do. And I've done this before. And this will blow you away the first time you go do this. And this is enough to look for this, Richard, is go to your favorite Chipotle type of place or whatever that tracks, that says what the bowl is this. This McCarras. Order up your order. Take it out.
11:27 Go home and go take it out and weigh it and tell me if this. It's off by two ounces. Oh, my God. Everything is off. Everything is off. Everything is off. The rice is off. The beans is off.
11:36 The guacamole is off. Every cheese is off. Everything that you say that you get on there is is off. And it is off normally north of what you estimate that to be. Which is why, by the way, if I do ever eat out, I overestimate on whatever it says. Like so when I look up on my fat secret or I bolster that with 200 plus calories. Yeah. Automatically.
12:01 There's oils and butters and stuff that's not accounted for in there for sure. They're probably a heavy hand on the state. So I'm going to 300 plus. less calories, especially if my goal is to lean out of the time. Different store. And if I'm trying to bulk, I go the other way. By the way, when the servings are four ounces to five ounces of chicken, which is what it's supposed to be, if you had four to five ounces of chicken put in front of you,
12:21 you'd look at it and go, that's not too much. That's not enough. You got to give me more, because they typically give you more than that. Here's the other one. You eat processed foods. So processed foods aren't inherently, you know, fat-fattening or fat-producing. but they are engineered specially to be hyper palatable, meaning you will feel satisfied.
12:44 In other words, you'll feel like you've eaten enough with processed foods when you've eaten north of four to 500 more calories than you would have with whole natural foods. So in other words, your gauge of satisfaction is thrown off so much by processed foods that if you're not even eating till your stuff, if you're like, you know, I'll just eat until I'm okay,
13:02 but you're buying foods that are in boxes and wrappers, They've been specially engineered with incredible science. Everybody, it's wild. If you look into, and in fact, I actually encourage people not to do this because it'll freak you out. But if you ever want to go down a crazy rabbit hole, look into the science that goes into creating hyper palatable processed foods. There's so much science that goes into it. This is why when you look at a bag of Doritos, there's 100 ingredients. Yeah.
13:28 Why are there 100 ingredients? It's a corn chip that tastes like nachos. Every ingredient in there is placed in there perfectly. to dramatically increase palatibility or the way your brain perceives it. They've hacked into that novelty stimulus where it's like, everybody knows, like if I've been eating the same type of food group and, you know,
13:49 I'm getting kind of, you know, fatigued with this to the point where I go grab something that's maybe sugary or maybe something that's more salty and it's different. Now of a sudden it stimulates my appetite again. And so it's like with every bite, you're getting that same experience. I've said this before.
14:03 The studies on hyperalibular, palatable foods are some of the best of nutrition studies we've ever had because food studies are so hard to control. It's really hard to take people, put them in a lab, watch the meat for three months, and then figure things out. It's very difficult to do that. Super expensive. Nobody wants to sign up for it.
14:22 So a lot of it's observational and surveys and stuff like that. Well, the processed food studies were in a lab. They took people and put them in two rooms. And this food, both control for macros, by the way, similar proteins, fats and carbs. this one's hyper palatable ultra-processed food. This one over here is whole natural food. Let's watch the groups eat. Not say anything.
14:44 Let's just see how much they naturally eat. Then let's take the groups and switch the rooms and see what happens. 600 calories is the difference. 600 calories is the difference. In other words, both groups ate until they were satisfied, but when they were in front of the hyper-palatable ultra-processed foods, they didn't stop until they had 600 more calories. So if you're eating ultra-processed foods and you're not trying to,
15:05 tracking every damn calorie that goes in your mouth, like most people, like a normal person, you can pretty much guarantee you're overeating. That's just the way that they work. I mean, by the way, that's just a study with an average of stuff for people. It's like there's people that could do 1,500 that way. I mean, I know that if I'm in the eating processed food, like, it creeps up and eating out. Easy. So fast, it creeps up like that. Yeah. And it, and it's, have you ever had one Oreo? Ever. Have you ever had one chip ever in your life? I don't have that ability. Have you ever had one tequito? The crazy part is the chip where it leaves the residue on your fingers.
15:40 And you're like, yeah, leave. And then you see that and it reminds you, oh, I don't want to eat some more. Yeah. It's like, oh, it's just, I want another one. It's still there. It's crazy. Here's another one. You don't prioritize protein.
15:51 So protein, let's talk about its benefits first. And then we'll talk about the satiety effect. So the benefits of protein in calorie-controlled diets. In other words, all things are the same. The difference is one group eats high protein, you know, close to one gram of protein per pound of target body weight. The other group eats what would be considered regular protein. So nobody's deficient. It's like regular protein, high protein.
16:16 Calories are the same. Both in a deficit. The high protein group loses more fat and keeps more muscle. In a calorie surplus, so you're not trying to lose fat, you're trying to gain, a high protein diet builds more muscle. So that's the benefit. Satiety-wise, protein-producing. is far more satiety than fat and carbs. What that means is if you eat a high protein diet and you prioritize it from whole natural foods,
16:42 not talking about protein shakes, not talking about bars, but real food. When you prioritize a high protein diet from real food, you will eat less naturally, naturally. If your diet is low in protein, you will eat more naturally. So prioritizing protein is a great way to help. Well, this is why this one is the first kind of go-to that we talk about when we are helping somebody we just recently had a live caller and you know he was asking you know some basic stuff with his diet and I'm like let me hear uh what you do and like one of the first things he says like
17:13 I you know I'm not I don't really track my protein I think I'm I eat around it's like I was like stop I don't need to hear anymore like that's that's I know how impactful just doing that because that takes care of one and two at least a good part of one and two what doesn't it mean that it makes one and two perfect but it does help with one or two because if you just prioritize protein and if you still eat out, you'll eat out less. If you just prioritize protein and you still eat processed food, you'll eat less. So doing that really help like naturally manages one and two. And then if you actually make an effort to follow that and then also follow one and two,
17:50 oh man, now you're. Magic. Yeah. Home run. That's a fat loss diet. Exactly. You're, you are going to get an incredible. If you follow those three, you're getting an incredible shape just by following those three.
18:00 But that just focusing on the protein. helps out with one of two. That's right. All right. Here's another one. This one's really interesting to me. When people are watched, observed in studies, eating meals either alone, doing nothing, it's just them and the meal, versus them and the meal and their phone, or them and their meal
18:21 and a computer, or them and the meal and TV, the difference in caloric intake about 10 to 15%. Same food, same person, 10 to 15%. First off, you eat faster. Second off, the satiety signal doesn't register till later. What does that look like? I'll tell you what it looks like. It's the difference between eating 2,000 calories and 2,250 calories. Okay.
18:45 That could be the difference between going in a deficit and not, or being at maintenance or a surplus. It's literally, so if you eat your meals, and by the way, a lot of people are like this right now. This is so, especially with phones when smartphones came out, most people eat their meals while distracted now. If you eat breakfast while on your phone, lunch while you're on your phone,
19:06 dinner while you're on your phone, you can pretty much guarantee that each meal you are consuming, if you just eat too satisfied, you are consuming 10 to 15% more calories just from that alone. You're shoveling it in and you don't even realize because, yeah, you're just not even paying attention. But yeah,
19:20 it's easy to do. And this used to be like traveling from one place to the other and then eating on the go and in your car and all that. But yeah, the phone is a huge factor to this. Oh, yeah. Are you familiar with the neuroscience of what's going on? Okay, so give me an example of, and this is the top of mind for me too, because we talked about this other day. You know, when you're in a diet, you will be hungry.
19:43 Right? That's just part of the process. When I am, one of my strategies at night is going to bed earlier. And what's the opposite of that is staying up late and watching TV. I have an easier time laying. in bed trying to go to sleep hungry, than I do watching a movie in my bed and being hungry.
20:05 It's like it's like I, it's an association for sure. Right. There's definitely an association that there's got to be something else that's happening to on a neurological level that is like my brain is distracted in a way where it's like, the hunger signal is already there. Me going to sleep and like focusing on going to bed, going to sleep, go in like tomorrow or the like I've reframed before. I'm leaning out right now.
20:26 I mean, I'm guessing that dopamine seeks more. dopamine. So you're watching a show, you're getting more dopamine. More dopamine always wants more dopamine, which could come from eating at the same time. But I do know this. And you could, if you're listening to this or watching this, you could practice this. Eat all of your meals while not doing anything else. And you will see how different it is. You'll see that you eat less. You just eat less. You chew more. You chew more. You just eat less when you do it. It's so wild. And again, studies consistently show 10 to 15 percent more calories just from doing that. And lastly, this one's going to piss off a lot of people.
21:01 You drink alcohol. Yeah, that's a tough one. People don't like to hear that one. But I'm going to tell you right now. Entry calories. Your one drink at night is close to 200 to 250 calories. That's typically what people are consuming in the form of an alcoholic beverage. I've had clients lose weight just from that.
21:19 Yeah. Just from cutting out of all. There's more of the downstream effects to that as well as it interrupts your sleep. And so like, you know, even just taking like a couple degrees back. sleep, like getting deeper sleep will make a massive impact on your fat loss. Can I just say this too? And this is true. One of the effects of alcohol, even a little bit of alcohol, especially a lot of alcohol,
21:41 but a little bit of alcohol is a reduction in inhibitions. Some of the worst meals I'll ever have are after having a couple drinks. After having a couple drinks. That's why Justin feeds it to his wife. Don't tell her that. There are positive strategies. I mean, I do want to make this clear because we have such a large listener base that dips in and out of the podcast and, you know, you might have listened, say, three months ago and then now you're listening to this. And like, wait a second, I know these guys have drinks.
22:14 And I know Adam has the occasional ice cream. And I also eat out and sometimes have processed food. Right. So I want to make it clear that when I'm speaking to somebody who is not happy with their current state of their body fat percentage, their aesthetics, or. or their goals. This is a person we're talking to. Yeah, you are trying to make change. You're frustrated.
22:34 You're not seeing the change. Here are the five most likely things that are going, that are, that does not mean that I don't think that in the real world, like, throughout life, you should not be able to find a way to have these things. You can have flexibility. That would be the first thing I would eliminate when I'm trying to lean out. And that's just how it is. I know it's a big factor.
22:54 100% if I was not competing with Sal to get lean right now. I would have had that ice cream. I 100% would have had that. You're welcome. When I'm already, when I'm already training, dialed and good in, like that is not doing some, that's not doing damage to me in that situation. That's just slowing down how fast of results I can get right now. And so. Tonight I'm a DoorDash ice cream to your house.
23:19 Do it. Just your favorite. Thrifty. Get a bunch of like ice cream smelling candles. Is that a thing? I don't know. It should be. Why would you get, what, ice cream smelling?
23:29 I don't know. Huh? Vanilla. I mean, yeah, that's, vanilla is my favorite candle, for sure. But I would absolutely burn a mint chip ice cream candle in my house. That's he could do a men chip ice cream candle. Is that a safe? Is that a big?
23:41 Is that your favorite? Is that your favorite ice cream? I don't think they could do that. Mint chip? Yeah. That's your favorite favorite? Mint chip and chocolate multi-crunch. Hmm.
23:48 Yeah, those are the two. I mean, the chip is good. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And the old man of me likes coconut, pineapple and butter pecan, too. Butter pecan's pretty good. No, half baked. Damn, that's like fat kid.
23:59 That's like that's like that's like 5,000 calories. Yeah, bro, that's 50s. Binergeri's 50,000 calories for that little thing. Yeah, it's like, it's the fact that I know that's kind of sad. A little bit of brownie, like half baked brownie in there, a little bit of, you know, obviously like cookie dough. It's kind of like cookie dough, chugging syrup. It's got like everything. Everything is everything.
24:20 Like the goodness of the world is all tacked in there. It's like named effort. I believe it's from, is it from the movie? Half baked. I mean, I mean, Ben. It's a stoner. It's a stoner ice cream. I know it's a stoner ice cream.
24:32 I mean, it's like, it fits stoner. We just took people on the craziest ride right now. I know. We just talked to them about... There is a mint chip ice cream candle. Yes. Come on. I knew it.
24:42 Yeah. Hook it up. You got to order me in one of them. That's what I'm saying, Sal. You got to go next level with this. We just took people on such a wild ride. Of course there is. Here's why you're not losing weight.
24:51 What's your favorite ice cream, by the way? Yeah. That's terrible. Especially because you open it up with the fat comment. right together. The fat guy right now is really frustrated. This is training Hey, speaking of, you said half-baked, speaking of cannabis, you know there was a study that
25:06 just came out that linked, I'm going to read this to you. I miss my cannabis. You don't have it anymore, huh, do you? Never, dude. I mean, I've had it, I can count on one ham in the last year. I don't, I don't miss it. I really don't miss it. That's the, I missed not missing it. Oh, wow.
25:23 I mean, I mean, it's, it's, ever since coming off the crater, them. I don't enjoy it the same. Weird. You like them together? I mean, of course. I mean, I would smoke most nights. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Interesting. No, I don't, I don't, uh, I don't miss cannabis at all. Not, not at all. Yeah, I have, I have moments where I'm like, I should smoke right now. You know what I don't. And I don't know what I don't know what's weird. What? Maybe TMI. Cannabis for me leads to lust, like a lot of lust, which is, you know,
25:58 which has been a problem for me in the past. And so because of that connection, I don't want it. I don't want to be just as looking at me. I don't look at Justin why I talk about less. Yeah. Tell me more. Tell me more.
26:10 Anyway. I mean, that's part of what I would enjoy it before my wife and I were to, when we were laying in bed. That's when I would have it. Yeah, but it gets a little. I just,
26:19 you know, like I said, I'm not going to get TMI, but I just don't, I don't, it's like, you know, some people will say,
26:25 you know, I used to enjoy drinking, but every time I drink, I start to act like a jerk or something like that. And they connect that, you know? I get it. I get it. I get it.
26:34 Lessful thoughts. It could just move me in that direction. And because that's been an issue, that was an issue for me in the past. Yeah. Because I've connected the two, I don't have any desire for it. Yeah,
26:44 I guess what I haven't connected yet is the why I don't enjoy it the same way anymore. I mean, it's a good thing, right? And it's great because the timing, I remember for my motivation early on, to quit cannabis was more related to max. Yeah, you don't want them to know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't, I didn't want to have to ever even have to explain that, right?
27:05 And so that was, like, that was kind of always in the back of my head, like, hey, he's going to get to a certain age where he'll pick up on smells or he would see paraphernalia or something like that. I just don't want, I don't want that. I don't want that. And it's not, again, obviously I'm not anti-marijuana guys. Just that like, there'll come a time in his age when we'll have that discussion. And that's what I don't want to have it seven. I don't want to have it seven, you know what I'm saying?
27:26 Modeling it. Yeah, yeah. Because other than that, for me, unfortunately, I have all these, like, positive associations. Like, I had, like, crazy creativity and, like, music. Like, why is I, you know, it's funny, but it really does, like, impact that. And then also my sleep was great. But now that I've removed it, it's like, I'm struggling with that. So I'm, like, kind of, like, undulating it, like, see if I could, like, lower it.
27:49 Well, you use edibles more. You don't use smoke. So that's, like, that would be easy to hide. It's right before bed, typically. Because it's just scary. Not because you could take too much. that's obvious, but when you have little kids, because they make edibles taste like candy.
28:03 Well, yeah, I know. Could you, I don't even, I don't even want to think about you. I don't even want to think about a kid, my kid accidentally finding, you know, an edible. I mean, if you're, if you're an adult, okay? Yeah, you got to be really responsible. I was going to say, if you're adult and you have cannabis. Put it in a child.
28:18 I mean, come on. But it happens all the time. I mean, it does, but they make little cheap safes, dude. Like, come on. But you know what happens all the time. You know what happens. every, you know, every day. Kids are rushed to the hospital because they eat their parents freaking.
28:31 I know. I'm sure it happens or whatever. Don't leave that laying around. No. No. But then you can, you're talking about stonters. Yeah, yeah. Not the most.
28:39 Be responsible. Not the best memory of people. Yeah, yeah. You know? Speaking of which, there's a study that came out that linked. So this came from King's College of London. This was published in Science Daily, September 30th. So a review of more than 265.
28:56 5,000 people found that cannabis use was associated with higher rates of both committing violence and becoming a victim of it. No. I mean, that's what the story. No. I love it when you disagree with this. I don't even have to see that so you know it's bullshit.
29:11 That is bullshit. Violence? Yeah, get out of here. Hold on. Before you get all weird, I don't even need to see it. I don't even know. You get what you're like, I already know.
29:19 I already know. Well, tell me, what do you think? I don't even know. What do you think they found the... It's wrong. That's how it's what I know. It was wrong. This is paid for them by the alcohol association.
29:30 Yeah, yeah, totally, totally. Funded by cigarettes. No, no, no, listen, okay. All right, let's hear it. It's 265,000 people. It's an association. It doesn't mean it's cause and effect, but there's an association. So let's try to explain why they found this.
29:48 Why did they find that cannabis users were twice as likely to both commit and become a victim of cannabis? Well, cannabis users? Does that mean, like, just somebody who admits they use are also, like, also, but to, yeah, so these are people that smoke that have, so they're less risk adverse. Like, they, they, they have, they're more carefree. There's, like, a lot of things that could go. And, like, they're happier to be violent. Well, no, so, because definitely people that are under the influence of cannabis are not more
30:14 likely to be violent than somebody that is, is, like, well, so here's what, here's for sure. So, so, there's some speculation around it, because, again, it's association, which doesn't mean. It's a terrible study. It doesn't mean that there's a. causation. Sometimes I feel like you work with a group of friends. I mean, it's just a terrible study, Sal. Okay, no, first off, I'm back you up.
30:36 I'm back you up. Okay. If you've ever known stoners, have you ever used cannabis yourself? The last thing on earth that you... I'm not going to categorize them as violent people. It might make you paranoid and scared, which just make you want to do less. I mean, it wouldn't make you more... If anything, you're going to remove yourself, like, away from people.
30:53 But here's what happens. Heavy cannabis. users are probably more likely to use other drugs. Okay. That's probably more likely to be put in situations. That, I mean, that study reminds me of, it reminds me of the caffeine study and the cigarettes. Yeah, yeah.
31:08 It's like, people who had a lot of caffeine back in the day of coffee also smoked cigarettes. Yeah, yeah. This is the whole gateway drug theory. So you, yeah, that makes more sense to me and then that's why it's a terrible study because it's like, you're totally doing a, uh,
31:24 there's no causation there. There's not even very much correlation. Now, that being said, okay, because that's 100, I'll put my money on that, Adam. I'll put my money on it that you're finding with people who use cannabis regularly are also people who also use other drugs more regularly, including alcohol, which is true. Also, you're probably, these are people who are associating themselves with other people who use other drugs. They're in those situations because they're also the victims of more violence.
31:47 They're not just committing more violence. They're also the victims of more violence. So they're in situate, in my opinion, I would bet money, they're in situations where things like that are more likely to happen. That being said, that being said, the strength of cannabis has gone up so much that the psychiatric effects, the horrible psychiatric effects, the schizo type effects, has risen with cannabis use because the dose is so freaking strong. Yeah. It's wild. Listen, so I'll speak personally, okay? I don't have any epigenetic underlying like, psychosis, like it's not going to be good for that.
32:27 If you have, if you're, you know, you're teetering on the, on the borderline of psychosis, and then you have some strong ass weed, you're going to, you're more likely to go on. It's going to tip you. Right. So I'll tell a personal story. So I don't really use cannabis anymore, like I just said. But there was a period there where I had it every single day. I had it every single night.
32:46 This was right around. It started right around. It had somebody very close to me who was terminal. And I researched it for her. She had cancer. Then I started using it. Then I started finding escape in it. And then it just became a habit that I had for years and years and years.
32:59 And so I would go buy it at the dispensary. So we're in California. It's been legal for medicinal use for a while. And it's been legal now for regular use for a while. But back then it was just medicinal use. So I got myself a, you know, medical marijuana card with your clock coma. Which was the funnest thing. It was the most joke.
33:19 Your doctor shows up high. Dude. Do you go to the mall? That's real talk right there. That's real talk. There's a 50-50 shot. Your doctor was stone. When he gave it to you.
33:29 So you walk in there. Oh, you have PMS? Here you go. Oh, you know. But your hurts. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Anyway.
33:36 I got a fungal infection. When I used to go by it, I was, I got really into cannabinoids. I really got really into the science, again, because I was trying to look for the, the chemo effects for someone on chemo, the effects for cancer. And so I would always look for high CBD or good ratio. And I, you know, I paid attention to that kind of stuff. And back then, this was only like, this was maybe 15, 16 years ago, maybe 17 years ago at the most.
34:01 You know, 15, 16% THC was the norm. 20% was like, oh, God, this is strong. Okay. You go to a dispensary right now. Everything is 26, 27%. Everything. It went up that much. Well, I don't even think it's, I mean, as crazy as that is,
34:19 I don't even think it's, I think it's the people which are like anything else. you tend to, if you were someone who was doing it on a regular basis, sooner or later, 10% doesn't do much, 15% than 20%. And then what comes after that is like things like dabbing and hash and all that stuff. And that stuff gets crazy. And the edibles are crazy, bro. I remember back in the day, a 5 milligram edible was the norm. Yeah. They don't even sell 5,000.
34:42 They sell 100 milligram edibles. 100. Yeah. That'll put you in another universe. Yeah. 100 milligrams. Yeah. It's crazy.
34:51 And I mean, it's, you know, it's a, it's a, you know, it's a, you know, it's a, You know, interesting fact, you know that like prohibition times, like that it followed the same pattern, right? Like when legal. States first. Illegal and then certain states. And then you had to get a doctor prescription and everything like that too. Very similar.
35:05 You get a doctor prescription? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What was the same thing. Like, I don't know if they use things like anxiety and like, yeah. I don't know what they. I'm in a bad mood.
35:15 What the excuses and what they connected it to what alcohol positively can do. Well, whatever. I don't remember what those were. But similar. similar pattern as, and it was probably, I'm sure was laughable back then too. It was just a loophole basically in the system that you can legally get it and that was the same same concept. That's wild. That's wild.
35:34 All right. So earlier, I took some joy mode, which I haven't had for a while. Because I really like the way it gives me energy. I really do. I've used it as a pre-workout. It's not a stimulant. So people listening, Joy mode is a pre-sex supplement. So, you know, you're probably like, why did you take it before podcasting?
35:52 It's not for that. It's because... What were the medical reasons, Doug? It contains it a lot of it. Sorry. Are you looking for the alcohol? Well, yeah, he found that... He was fact-checking me, and it was...
36:02 Yes, it's true, but I wanted to see what the medical reasons were. So, Joy Mode is a pre-sex supplement, but the compounds in there really are geared around blood flow. It's all about increasing blood flow because if you're, you know, when you're going to have sex, better blood flow means better erection, performance, that kind of stuff. So that's all the compounds in there. Which also help with pre-wealth. workout. So take it as a workout. You get better pumps. It's also good for endothelial health,
36:27 for the health of your arteries. We know this now. Endothelial health is like one of the most important things to pay attention to when you want to reduce your risk of things like cardiovascular or something like that. I also just feel energy from it. I feel great. I've done the same. You have just for energy before workouts. And it's no stimulus. It's non-stimulant. So you can take it at night and go to sleep afterwards. And also you're a little more. I mean, if you got access, if you got access to this. You got access to this. You can't avoid it. I'm just saying.
36:58 This is your hack right here. They made it for it. Okay? Because it takes a solid 30, 45 minutes for it to kick in. You take it. Then you go sit in the sauna for a good 20, 30 minutes. And then you rinse off in your shower. And then by the time you get out of shower, it's go time.
37:13 It's go time. So that's that. Yeah. Is that why we've never sawn it together? Yeah. The complex. I have my own son. those two together, pre-going to bedtime is awesome.
37:27 If you haven't done that, you have to do that. I know, I do that. I leave downplay it. Oh, what are you talking about? I don't know. You already knew the formula. That's really weird. Dude, did I tell you, speaking of like that kind of stuff?
37:39 Did I tell you, my wife, we were, she got real mad at me and she tried to insult me, but it turned into, and she felt really bad. She felt really, she came back and apologized. What happened? But she didn't need to apologize because the way she insulted me was actually. Well, what happened first? What were you guys doing? So we got this big argument because, you know, over my relationship to fitness.
38:00 So long story short, I won't get on the details, but I wanted to work out with her in the morning. And I'm trying to make that happen a little bit more often. Just we spend time together. But, you know, start workout at 7 a.m. We got the kids. Kids get in the way, you know, so she can, you know, be a little late or whatever. And I'm really, like, rigid about it. I got to leave by a certain time when I'm going to try.
38:22 I finished my workout. And so we were just talking about, like, and this is the conversation we had where, you know, she noticed that I'm like, yeah, I'm going to eat less, but it turned into, I'm going to get shredded. She's like, you're just going from one extreme to the other. So we're having this conversation, turned into an argument because I don't want to be told that.
38:38 I get defensive. And then she gets, you know, whatever. And so we were just going. She got really mad at me. And she goes, I don't even like the way you look. And at first I was like, oh. Like, wow. But she immediately followed it up.
38:50 She went like this. This is the whole statement. I don't even like the way you look. You look like an action figure. You're almost 50. You shouldn't look like that. Hey, I can feel the emotional roller coaster that your body went through in that three seconds. It went, oh, oh.
39:10 I feel like your shoulders like this. And then you're like, I don't like the way you look. Essentially, I don't like the way you look. You look too jacked. She said that to me. Now, because we're in the argument, I was just like, you know, whatever. So I'm not like, you know. Yeah, yeah.
39:22 And then, like, you know, hours later, she comes up to me and she's like, she just felt really bad, you know. She's like, man, I, I'm really sorry. I like the way you look. I'm so sorry. I said that, that's so horrible. And I felt like I told her that, honey, you did tell me, I looked like an action figure right out. That was the best shit sandwich I've ever got. That was not a, you didn't hurt my feelings at all.
39:44 That was the best thing. That was the goal. I don't look like a 50-year-old? I don't look like a 50-year-old? Whoops. So good. Accidental compliment. Best insult I've had all here.
39:56 That's so good. Have you guys seen the data on kids and how they identify sexually and what's happening right now with it? Dude. Has it changed? Okay. And so what is this timeline that they're observing? So starting in 2015, there was a sharp rise.
40:20 of kids identifying as LGBT. So either lesbian, gay, or bisexual. It peaked in 2021. So here's where it was, ready? In, and I'll give general numbers, in 2015, it was like right around 10% of, you know, teenage kids said that they're either lesbian, gay, or bisexual. By 2021, that number had gotten as high as 25%.
40:49 So, like, all of a sudden. sudden like, oh my God. Now people were like, oh, it's because people are more accepting. This is just how it is. This is whatever. Well, it turns out that's not true because right now it's 2020, this latest date of 2025, that number has dropped to roughly 15%. So you saw this huge spike and this huge drop. dropped, which flies in the face of the, you know, this is just you're born this way type of deal. And I'm not saying that that's also not some truth to it. But this does point to that there is a very strong social component when we're talking about this. Because it's a big swing. That's not a small swing. That's a huge difference over the course of, you know, 10 years.
41:39 Sure. That we're seeing that kind of stuff. Didn't, um, who's the professor who wrote the book, Coddling of the American Mine? He also spoke at the arc event. Didn't he do some research on all that? I don't know. Was he part of that? I don't know what I'm talking about.
41:54 I can't remember his name. Codling of the American, the coddling of the American mind. Am I tripping? Is that his last name? What's his name there, Doug? There's two authors of that book. It's the one that we saw speak it. And he's got another great book.
42:07 Jonathan Hayt. Oh, Jonathan Hay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Didn't he do research on that? I'm not sure. I could have sworn he spoke on this also. And he's got a new book outside of Caudley, American Mine.
42:18 I don't know what it is. You know, when it comes to this topic, there's so much, a lot of, there's been a lot of study into trying to look for a genetic connection. They can't find it. Yeah.
42:31 And there's so much that points to, that this is very strongly influenced by, yes, by life experiences and by social, you know, norms. That it's just highly influenced one. And I always, I mean, culture around it too. I always thought this because,
42:51 I mean, there's a great example of this. Like, prison is a great example of this. Like, dudes do a lot of things in prison that are gay. That are, that they wouldn't do outside of prison. And it's just the environment that has changed. Yeah. So it's interesting. I mean, you're also, you're also talking about a time in most
43:09 kid's life that is kind of confusing. When your hormones are radically changing, you're a teenager, you're learning about, like, there's so much that's happening. And so, um, I think even somebody who doesn't identify as that, there's a lot of confusion around sexuality and understanding. That's right. So easily a time where that could, I could see get manipulated by or influenced, I should say, um, by society pressures, societal pressures for sure. So I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised by that at all. I was more surprised by the 25% number because anytime I've been in, I mean, that would basically mean at least one or two of us should be in this room. I mean, that's a high.
43:45 There's only one of us. Yeah. Yeah, that's one in four. That's a high number. That is a high number. Yeah, yeah. That's a really high number. I know.
43:55 I know. It's crazy. But it's interesting. It's dropped so significantly. So it kind of, you know, it points to that a little bit. So is that just more of a cultural thing that's shifted? Yeah, because. That's what it seems like.
44:07 Yeah. I mean, too, yeah, because you do see a lot of effort in a lot of content and a lot of, like, media. And it was, it was really highlighted quite a bit, you know, and so that has to, like, play a factor. I think it totally does. Which you should kind of level out, what you think, because we tend to do that, the whole pendulum thing, right? We went so extreme. And then what probably settles in the next four to five years is probably a more realistic number. Yeah, that's what I would say.
44:30 Yeah. That's what I would think. Dude, I was watching this, this, it wasn't like a documentary, but it was like kind of behind the scenes of Napoleon Dynamite, which I love that movie. And it was like such a random comedy that kind of came out of nowhere. But they were highlighting the fact that, like, he started the guy that created that film. I guess he was in some schools, like a school project. And he only put like $500 into it initially.
44:58 And literally had like, so the guy that played like Napoleon Dynamite was like one of his buddies. And they first like launched it off through, you know, like, presented it to class. The professor kind of liked it. You know, you got something here. Then they kind of went through like one of those like film festival things and then got like really good reviews. And then he literally just ran it on like a really tight budget.
45:22 It was like something like a couple hundred thousand. It was like 400,000 made like $4.6 million or something off the film. But it was crazy about it. It was like they're going through the whole way that they shot it. And I had no idea that they actually used like a real high school. pretty much everybody in there were real people, like students of the high school. And so they didn't use like,
45:44 they didn't cast a lot of, um, you know, like background actors or like stand-ins and all that. It was all just like real people like in Idaho in this, in this, uh, community.
45:56 Uh, and the guy that, I forget his name, Jonathan, I forget his name, the guy played Napoleon Dynamite, but like he had already been working on that weird dance he did at the end. Oh yeah.
46:06 Uh, on his own. And like, so a lot of the. scenes were totally impromptu. And they just, like, filmed it. And that became, like, a cultural, just phenomenon. I was always confused.
46:16 So, Napoleon Dynamite, I think it's just a cult classic. I think it's, the more you watch it, the funnier it gets. So I was just going to, okay, I was going to ask you guys. So glad you said that went that direction. Because when I think about Napoleon Dynamite, I'm also reminded of Zoolander, two of my favorite comedies. Oh, yeah. That one grows on you later.
46:33 I didn't like either one of them the first time. Yeah, they're funnier. I fell in love, like, liked it the second time, third time. Like, I fell in love with it. The first time I'm like, what am I watching? Yeah. And so, and I think people that didn't like it, like, that's what happened is you go, this weird, I don't get it. You don't know what you're watching.
46:52 Maybe you didn't finish it because it's so different. But once you get it and you get like the humor behind it, like, it becomes like hilarious to me. I can't. What is that? I don't know. I don't know because there's a few movies that that's happened to me with. Those are the two that come to mind. There's songs like that too, by the way.
47:09 I'll listen to a song sometimes. There's things like that. There's art like that. My buddy texts me about a car, right? And I've seen this before with vehicles. I see a new design that, say, Ferrari comes out with. And when it first gets launched, I'm like, that is ugly. I don't like it.
47:28 And then over time of seeing it, this is just recently happened to me. I saw one in person. I went, damn, that looks beautiful. I looked. I thought it was ugly at first. What is that? I don't know. Maybe it's something that's so novel.
47:40 It's so novel. Our brain can't connect it to something we've seen before. And so it kind of wants to push back on it. And then it becomes open to it. There's got to be some. I think what's theirs in terms of Napoleon Dynamite by itself was just like the way that they did everything was completely opposite of what Hollywood does. So like they, I mean, for the most part, it was just shot like very like spur of the moment. like we're going to run this today like and they would just run with it and they didn't like
48:09 they didn't cut a lot of things out like they they just uh decided to to make it as authentic and they used authentic a lot because it was like um they were trying to portray like they're they're these real people not they weren't like leaning into like funny jokes or leaning into they were just like trying to make these quirky characters like as like he would do it this way he would like all of a sudden you know get up and run. all weird and you know so I think it was just like it you're like you relate to it on a level where it's like this is more realistic versus like scripted staged you know performative well the thing that always confused me about Napoleon dynamite is I could never figure out what decade they
48:52 were depicting well that was brought up too because the wardrobe itself so you have to like if you're going to pick an era you have to spend a lot of money on set design in a lot of like costing design. So all they did was went to local thrift stores there and every outfitted everybody in local. So basically you're you're like retro, but you could be like now, you could be back then. It was weird because at some points I'm like, okay, you're. Oh, I just as soon as like 80s. No. But there's other things that they're depicting in there that shows that it's at the time. Oh, it's all. Really? Drawings, you know, the unicorn, the lager and all that was literally his drawings. Oh, wow.
49:30 But I mean like the trapper keeper, her hair. That's what I'm saying. The, the, the, the, the, the, the photos that she did. I mean, everything was 80s to me. What was not 80s? Have you ever walked through a thrift store? Yeah. That's literally what you're watching. Like, the tapper keepers there, the old backpack. Can you Google, what, what decade was Napoleon Dynamite depicting? Because maybe they were trying to depict. That's what I feel like they weren't. Because half the time, it didn't make any sense. Really? No. I felt like everything was kind of 80s. It was like neutral. See, it was depicting contemporary early 2000s, even though it looks like it took place in the past. Interesting.
50:05 Yes, dude. So then to Justin's point, it's like to pick, which by the way, in the toothout wall, yeah, see, they had rotary. They had cordial phones. In the 90s. Yep. And I think this is coming back. I think this is in style again.
50:16 I don't know, with kids. But I know in the 90s, I remember when a thrift store shopping became popular again. Like where wealthy kids would go and buy thrift store clothes because it was in vogue. Retro. So it was. And so that was around that time. So in the, in the 90s. Yep.
50:34 it was cool to wear thrift clothes, even if you didn't need to buy thrift clothes. So I wonder if that was kind of the movie, because that's what, that's the era there. And that's what they're definitely wearing and stuff. It's like, you know,
50:47 it was just trying to kind of like encapsulate that area. So it says here that director Jared Hess based the film on his upbringing in a rural community, capturing how isolated small towns often lag behind. Oh, that's a great mainstream pop culture and modern technology. Yep.
51:03 So that makes sense. Perfect. That totally makes sense. Did you, all of us grew up in bigger towns, huh? No, I was a small town. I was a small town, actually, yeah.
51:10 Yeah, yeah. Feltz and small. I was hell of small town. Yeah, but you were surrounded by like, you're in the Bay. Well, I mean, I was close to Santa Cruz we could get down there, but it was like where we were,
51:19 like, it was pretty insulated. It was like, there was a lot of, like, cowboy and, um, I don't want to, like, I guess, like, skater surf kind of guys. Yeah. But that was it.
51:30 Like, that was our culture. Oh, I was small town. Especially that. I was in a K and Dom Pedro, it was K through eighth. The high school had 50 students in the whole high school. Oh, yeah. It was smaller than Napoleon Dynamite school. That's real small.
51:42 Yeah, I grew up. That must have been weird. Very weird. Very weird. That's why I'm weird. That's why I'm off a little bit. You know, I was the coolest kid in school. I would definitely.
51:54 Yeah, there's 12. That's like the time I did it. And four of them were special needs. That's the time when I was a kid. It wasn't a big deal for me. Did I tell you guys the time I did it? judo tournament. It got third place.
52:05 There were three people in my pool. I was on the podium. I had a medal. I got third place, bro. There was three of us. Oh, no. I remember, be like,
52:15 this doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel right. Congratulations. Yeah, well, I got last place. Yeah, no, the lagging behind is a very true thing. When you go to like a rural town like that, I mean, we see this even today in,
52:28 in the country. Like, places like L.A. and New York are way ahead. then you go right in the middle America and they're 10 years behind. You'll still see like old starter parkas. No, yeah, totally. The stuff that was hot like 10 years ago
52:40 is just now making it there and that's all out of style. Yeah, yeah. So if you compare, look at like a New York and an L.A. style, go middle America and that's what 10 years ago, L.A. or New York was doing. Yeah.
52:52 A question for you because I know you're like hardcore into the cut and doing all that, Calories and all that stuff. Have you bumped up your consumption of element? Yes. Two a day or no. Okay. scenario, two a day.
53:03 Yeah, yeah. Have you played... Especially in the sauna day. I could get away with one, but I'm two. Have you played with, like, pushing it before your workout to see what happens to your pump? Well, so that's one of the things I'll do right now, especially in case. So how many... So you have two a day.
53:17 Is it one before you workout, one before sauna? Yep. Try two before your workout. Really? Try two before you workout, one before you sauna. Bro. So that's what I do. So I have one...
53:26 You have 2,000 milligrams before? I do. So I have 1,000 milligrams that I mix with pre-workout. Yeah. Then I have another thousand milligrams that I'm drinking in the workout itself. And it makes it, I've done it where I forgot. Yeah. And I only did one.
53:39 It makes a difference to have that much. Interesting. Because I, I mean, I have to. This is, uh, I mean, it's, again, it's cool going through this, uh, with you right now. Because I'm reminded all these, these little tips and tricks and things that I do. You know, I'm, uh, I'm in that phase right now, that awkward phase of cutting where, uh, I don't like the way I look, because I'm flat. Yeah. You know, I'm depleted enough.
54:02 to really wear it. Yeah, yeah. And I'm, I'm low, I'm so low carb, low calorie and consistently. And that, so people understand that like, it pulls all the glycogen out of your muscles. And water. And so in the bodybuilding world, we call that a flat, yeah, and also your body's not holding as much water in there. So I'm like trying to shuttle as much water as I in there. So it's interesting that you say that. And part of that strategy of doing the sodium before and then I drink a lot of water is to try and get as much water in me as I can to create the illusion that I can air up more. Because it, and I tell you, it's such a psychological game because it's all psychological. It's so, it's so psychological.
54:40 It makes you want to to adjust or think that things aren't going well because what it looks like in the mirror is that I'm losing muscle. Yeah. It looks like I'm like, I'm getting worse. Just getting smaller. Yeah, I'm just getting smaller. But I also know, and when you're really good and consistent long enough, and I sometimes I have to do this because the psychological game is so strong, is I will intentionally plan. a big refeed day so I can see. That's right.
55:06 And so I'll go like, let's say, and I already plan this this week. My body weight will swing four pounds. Oh, easily. I'll go five, six easily. And I'll look way different. So I'll do that this week because I'm in that kind of state right now. It's been like two or three weeks where I've been really low and depleted.
55:21 And so when my workout that I do on Friday, I've already planned like I'm going to load. I'm going to load really hard. I'm going to have a high calorie day, high carbohydrates, get a workout in. and then like what like filled up me revealed and I'll go oh okay I just did that so I did that last night so I went home last night and my wife made homemade pesto pasta of pesto which is just my favorite so good it's homemade it's high calorie because there's oil in it there's cheese in you know part you know there's a pecorino cheese in there it's pasta then she made lamb chops lamb chops is very fatty cut of meat and so I had a big old meal of pasta or pesto and so I had a big old meal of pasta and
56:01 lamb chops. And then afterwards, I'm like, okay, I want even more sodium and some more carbs in my... So I had a little bag of potato chips because I knew I was going to work out this morning. Yeah. Huge difference. Huge. I worked out and I was like, there it is. So here's the...
56:15 It was all for my psychological. So here's the trap. Because if you're doing this intentionally because you know what you're doing, as I'm going to do. And then I'll go right back to the cut. That's right. Someone else will be like, this what I need to do. This is what I need to do. I know.
56:27 And so you go, oh, that's what's wrong. I look so much better today. stay the course now do more of that. And then you start overeating and then now you're putting body fat on. And so that was one of the hardest things about getting really shredded was staying in that deficit
56:42 for long periods of time like that already fighting the hunger signals and all those things. And then also the psychological part of I don't like to look the way I look. I feel weaker inside the gym. And then you go, okay, I can't do this anymore so you have a big day of eating.
56:55 And then you go, oh my God, I look way better. And then you go, I'm going to go that way. And so all my 20s, That was what dieting looked like for. That's right. I would only go so, oh, I'd only go so far. And then I'd see the extra calories. I go, oh, that's what I'm supposed to do.
57:07 Same. And go the other way. But it's like, you have to get past that and know that you keep going that direction. Because, yeah, you in a depleted state looks so different than you filled up. Totally. And you can get that right. By the way, these are the Justin's favorite conversations. When you and I have these conversations, I just piece.
57:24 Is there like a tune out button? He's over there. And I, he, he, He's thinking about other things. The rest of you are listening to this, I apologize. I'm sorry, Tybalch. Getting leader. Get bigger, die.
57:40 He hates it. I mean, I know it's so vanity-driven, body-y-building. No, no, there's a lot of people who... Well, that's why I like, I really enjoy talking about it. And I shared this when I went through my bodybuilding journey. I became a... I became way more of a better coach through that process because actually being able to...
58:03 You're tuned into the psychological piece 100%? On a whole other level. And so, you know, because there was times where clients would try and communicate how they felt or they explained to me like, I feel fat. And I didn't have the words for like what they probably were going through where now I could totally explain to that person probably what's going on or what happened. Or even better, you tell them ahead of time. That's where the really good coaching comes in.
58:27 It's like I can now forecast for them that, hey, this is what you're going to be. it's probably going to happen. You're going to feel this way. It's totally normal. Speaking of which, we rarely ever plug this. What's the link to see if you want to work with one of our coaches? Because we talk about coaching all the time. I know we're limited on coaches, but what's our link for our coaching? Mindpumppersonaltraining.com is our website. Mindpumppersonaltraining.com. We have coaches now. If you want to hire an online coach that was trained, hired, developed by us, so we know they're good. Go to mindpumppersonal training. and you can fill it out and see if it's right for you.
59:04 All right, so what is Butcher Box? So Butcher Box delivers better meat for a better you with great convenience. So here's what they do. They deliver 100% grass-fed beef, free-range chicken, that's organic, pork that is raised, crate-free, wild-caught seafood. So if you like protein, but you also like high-quality, you go to Butcher Box, you set yourself up with a monthly box. It comes to your door. The meat is frozen. Throw in the freezer. Now you've got high quality protein that also will save you tremendous amounts of money.
59:40 It's also inexpensive. It's cheaper than going to the grocery store to find these things yourself. So if you want high quality meat with good prices, go to butcherbox.com slash mind pump. On that link, you'll get free ribbyes, New York strip steaks, or filet mignon's in every order included for free for a year, plus $20 off. Here we go. Our first caller is Rachel from England. Rachel, welcome back. How are you doing, Rachel?
01:00:09 Hi there. Hello. Hello. How you doing? Well, you were right. Oh, my goodness. I love when people open up with that. No way.
01:00:18 No way. We knew that, too, we. Yeah, I've been eating more. Strength has gone up. Not hugely, but good for a lady in my age. Five pounds on the barbell bench, six pounds on the barbell bicep curls. So it's going up, it's increasing.
01:00:44 I've up my, I've started to have more, well, I started to have porridge oats with protein for breakfast, which I wasn't doing before. and then having great yogurt with some protein in the evening. I probably could eat more, which I think I'm going to do because I can see the gains. Yeah. Yeah. Excellent.
01:01:11 So I'm on the right track. Very good. How's energy? Any changes in your just overall energy? Yeah. Yeah, much more. Yeah, and sleeping better too. Oh, wonderful.
01:01:20 That's good. Yeah. So a win all round, to be honest. Now, it's only been 60 days, but do you see a difference in the mirror? I do in, yeah, where I wanted it. I'm beginning to see a bit more definition, which is, as you know, what I wanted. So, and my husband made a comment the other day as well about my arms. Hell yeah.
01:01:41 Yeah, so I'm going to just keep going. I want to get more and more and more muscle. That's a girl. Yeah, yeah, that's wonderful. That's what I want. And I haven't put any weight on. I didn't get fluffy as I. I asked you, would I get fluffy?
01:01:53 I haven't. In fact, to be honest, I possibly might have lost a bit, but I've not weighed. Good. So my clothes feel good. I certainly don't feel fluffy. In fact, to be honest, I feel probably firmer. Good. That's excellent.
01:02:07 Just keep thinking to yourself, I'm going to build the body I want. And I'd have to lose. And definitely a sign that we could probably feed more, like you said. So that's a great sign. Have fun with it. Have fun with it. This is great. Yeah.
01:02:19 Yeah, really happy. You're definitely right. I mean, we knew that, didn't we? But us ladies are scared to eat, aren't we, from what we've been previously told. But, I mean, I'm eating good food. So, yeah, I'm going to up it. And so carry on with anabolic. Yeah, I love anabolic for you.
01:02:40 Muscle Mommy would be good for you. PPL would be good for you. Symmetry would be good. Those are all programs, I think, that you could do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. programs for it. Yeah. Yeah. I've got
01:02:50 anabolic and I've got symmetry. Okay, follow symmetry next. Yeah. Yep. Okay. Yep. Wonderful, Rachel. This is good news. I'm so happy you trusted us. But now that you see it, and I used to tell my clients this all the time, I'm going to ask you to trust me now. And if you do, I won't have to ask you again. And so now you're at the point now where you don't need to just blindly trust. You can see what it's doing. Yeah, definitely. This is the tip of the iceberg. It's only been 60 days. It actually, it actually accelerates as you go in this process.
01:03:22 So this is going to be fun. Great job. Oh, great example. Yeah. Perfect. Great job. Very good. Thanks for calling in.
01:03:28 Good to see you again. Thank you so much. Yeah, yeah. Take care. Bye. Thank you. Wonderful. I love hearing that.
01:03:34 Yeah, yeah. And, you know, it's expected. And I'm so glad she communicated the way she did. She doesn't feel fluffier. She even looks more to find. She's more firm. Strength training requires nutrients. And you got to take them in to make,
01:03:46 those body changes. And if you don't feed yourself, you're just stuck. And remember, she's like way more energy and stronger. She feels it. Her husband's commenting. Better sleep, all those things. And she's going to move in the right direction. And the fact that she has maintained weight or even possibly lost weight is assigned to, like she said, I think I can eat more. And she's right. If she was able to maintain weight or even possibly go down, absolutely, we could push calories even more. So she keeps leaning into that. She can continue to the gains. Our next caller is Haley from Michigan.
01:04:18 Heyley, what's happening? How are you guys? Good. How can we help you? So I actually talked to you guys. I don't even know when it was now, but I was asking for program advice for playing year round overseas for basketball. And unfortunately, I have since torn my ACL, MCLCL, and both of my meniscus.
01:04:37 Yikes. In March of, yeah, 2020. So that's been, yeah, it was not my greatest moment of my life. So unfortunately, I was meant to have surgery in Germany, but my PTs had me do no range of motion or mobility. So I actually had to wait three and a half months for that surgery. And then I had the reconstruction. I had both meniscus repaired. And then I had a scar tissue removal in January of this year.
01:05:06 So it's just been like a lot. I've switched like physios about four times. And then at the same time, I've been dealing with just like a lot of chronic gut issues that I've had. I'd probably since I would say probably started my junior year or senior year of high school. So at least like 10 years now. I'm old. I'm like 28 now. So it's been ages and I've just always struggled with that a bit.
01:05:27 But so my question is that's just a little bit of context of just everything that's been going on. I've really just been struggling to find professionals that understand the complications of both my injury and kind of healing my gut and all of that at the same time. I've been feeling overwhelmed and frustrated and just not feeling like I have. have the proper support. As I've said, I've just like been working with four different physios and I've worked with maybe two different functional practitioners now. And I think I did like Chinese medicine at one point, really like checking all the boxes. I had been advised to eat really low carb and restrict certain food group. Added sugar is gluten, dairy, some like histamine stuff, which helped and
01:06:10 helped me feel less inflamed. But I just felt so fatigued and lost my period. at some points, which as recovering athlete, I know enough to know like that's not ideal. And I think since being injured and trying to heal all these things that once, it's just very overwhelming. I've definitely struggled with some body dysmorphia as I lost so much muscle during my injury process. I've just struggled with eating patterns of like now I'm kind of like have that carb fear that I used to eat just a ton and not really second guess it. and just kind of confusion out of how to eat properly. So I don't always feel puffing and inflamed,
01:06:49 but I am quite literally rebuilding my entire leg. I just, again, I lost so much muscle. I was like this big at one point, and I'm a very muscular person, so just a vast difference. I currently weigh around 165 plus or minus. I'm not, or like maybe five or 10 pounds. I'm not really big on weighing myself for kind of these reasons. But I'm trying to rebuild my body and be able to compete professionally
01:07:13 again while also still in the process of healing my gut, I am on a protocol and just trying to get rid of that like inflamed puffy feeling that I feel all the time. I think someone called last week and just said she never feels like she looks the way she trains and like the just like the effort I put into it. I put so much effort into this. I just don't feel like I feel how I would like to feel competing or just like in myself. So basically I would love any nutritional insight or just any insight in general on any of this stuff that you guys have on just proper macro intake, just literally anything about injury or being athletic again, healing your body. And yeah, I just want to feel healthy and confident in myself as a human. And I really just want to get back to doing what I love.
01:07:58 So that's kind of the root of it. But yeah, so I'd love anything you guys have for me. That sounds really tough. Sounds like you've really been through it. How did you, how did you tear your knee so badly? Did someone run into you on the court? I was going up for kind of like a little two-legged layup, but as I was going up, I slightly paused, which allowed her to come up. So when I went to jump, she was coming down on this shoulder, and all my weight was on my right leg. And it essentially snapped. Like, I thought I broke my leg. And, yeah, unfortunately, Germany just didn't have a great protocol for that.
01:08:32 So I ended up being, like, on the stretcher for, like, 45 minutes, like, no pain medication until they had to come seduce me. And then, like, after that, my leg was out able to strain. but yeah, it was just like it's been a lot. That's really rough. Okay. Let's talk about your gut health for a second. You said you're on a protocol? Yeah.
01:08:51 Have you been tested for SIBO, CFO, for parasites? Have you done any tests for those things? Yes, I did the GI MAP test, and I didn't have anything. No parasites came up. I haven't been tested for SIBO, but given just I also did some surveys
01:09:05 and she said they didn't think that was an issue. It's actually I have really low good gut bacteria, so I have a bit of like dysbiosis and then just kind of everything's not functioning that well. So I'm kind of trying to, I'm like in the rebuilding phase of getting all the good stuff back. And so I know like the restriction isn't helpful because I'm trying to rebuild. Yeah. But my brain is just like I feel like shit. So I'm sorry, I just don't feel great.
01:09:31 So. Yeah, I'm like fighting like little devil angel on my shoulder like, oh, you need to eat or this makes you feel good. But then it's like, but yeah, you don't feel good when you eat these things. so it's just been tough. And you said you're tired. It makes you feel tired with these restrictions. Are you still trying to be super active? So I am like doing my rehab three, like lower body, like pretty obviously trying to lift heavy.
01:09:55 I'm kind of getting black into Plyometrics. So I have a little bit of explosive stuff at the start. And I'm doing like one to two court workouts a week. And then I try to walk, you know, after meals because I know that helps with digestion. And then doing two to three zone two cardio is usually. on the bike or rower or something like that. So it's not my old level of activity, but I am, I think, still physically moving a good amount.
01:10:20 So there's because there's two levers here that we need to work with. If you're feeling fatigued, because healing your gut is priority, okay? Because if you don't heal your gut, you can eat more and you're just going to get more inflamed. I've dealt with this, so I know what that's like. So it's like you've got to pick which ones, you know, which one comes first. And the one that comes first is working on your gut health.
01:10:39 So there's two things, two levers here. So either eat more, but that's kind of out of the question. And the other ones move less. So if you're feeling really fatigued, what I would try to do is eliminate the activity that you don't feel is essential. Okay. So maybe the zone two cardio, maybe get rid of that. And sleep is going to be a big one.
01:11:01 How is your sleep? It's great. I usually don't have much issues with that. I've kind of delved into that before even the gut stuff. So usually I'm getting like eight to 10 hours. and like I feel good when I wake up and I wake up and I pop out of bed and I'm ready to go. It's just like doing my workouts. I don't feel that energy that I usually have.
01:11:20 Something low cow. Yeah, and it's your calories low. And so you don't have to reduce the activity so that you have, because you're fueling yourself only for so much activity. Are there certain foods or things that you are okay with pushing? Like you can eat more of certain things and you're like, okay, this doesn't seem to bother me. I've been eating a ton of like just vegetables and fruit in general and I actually don't get bothered so much by like beans and legumes and stuff. Okay.
01:11:46 Meat sometimes. If I eat a lot of it, I'll feel like it's just very heavy. So I like can't eat a ton of it, but I do eat it like every day. It's just like the volume at one time, which I know I'm like trying to get a certain amount of protein. Yeah. So like usually it's just anytime it's like a really heavy meal, I'm definitely just not eating any gluten. I know that just doesn't sit well with me. Um, but yeah, I feel like I'm, yeah, I don't know if there's, it's hard because I feel like I react just randomly all the time.
01:12:13 There's not like a certain trend where I'm like, okay, this for sure other than basically gluten. Are you managing histamine? Is that part of this process? We talked about it, but I haven't been doing that recently. It was like a theory we kind of had when I, like, I've been doing this protocol for maybe like three or four months now and it's like comes and goes in phases. So we discussed it, but I haven't been recently. Okay. What about if she's that low a calorie? or that clean of food too. What about like electrolytes?
01:12:39 Are you supplementing with like element or anything like that? I'm using like a jigsaw, adrenal kind of cocktail thing where I use coconut water. And then I think that has magnesium, potassium. And like obviously, I got about sodium in it. More sodium. Yeah, you'll need sodium, especially if you're eating really clean and you're working out. Yeah, because she might feel a difference just by bumping that up. Yeah.
01:12:58 So that's not a good, that's not a bad suggestion is maybe adding more sodium. So like a high sodium electrolyte powder element's really good. It's 1,000 milligrams. and you would know if it helps pretty quickly. Oh, yeah, you'll know you'll fill energy in your workouts. Yeah. So you would know within a day if that indeed made a difference. Okay.
01:13:14 Yeah. I asked you about histamine because bone broth protein powder. So paleovali makes a really good one. I take that every day. Okay, good. Okay. Yeah. From you guys.
01:13:25 I was like, okay, I'm going to give this. Now, how does that feel when you take it? Is it okay? Oh, I feel fine. Yeah, I don't feel any like no symptoms when I take that. Good. So you can bump that. You could have a higher.
01:13:35 Higher doses. Yeah, you could bump that up. And then as far as meat is concerned, are you, is it okay for you to add cillium husk to your diet? This is just the fiber. I've been taking that usually in the morning, just like one teaspoon,
01:13:50 I think, so it's not so much. But I usually take that on the empty stomach with kind of my little drink mixtures I take in the morning. So if you take it with supplements, it can actually absorb and block the supplement from getting absorbed.
01:14:02 Okay, so take separate? Yes. So like if I took Cillium husk, with medication, I might not absorb the medication. Take it with meals. So here's what you do, especially a larger meal. So let's say you're going to push the meat. You're like, okay, I'm going to eat a little more meat than I normally do.
01:14:16 When you're done eating your meal, have your teaspoon of cillium husk with a big glass of water. In my experience with clients who had issues with motility, which is what it sounds like might be one of the issues for you, that I would say 70% of the time made a big difference. Like the majority of the people. Yeah, and that's an easy fix too. so I can definitely do that. Yeah, and so you can literally take a teaspoon with three meals.
01:14:40 So with your larger meals, you could do that. And the training, I would cut out what isn't necessary. And out of the things you told me, Zone 2 could be gone. Yeah. Because you're already doing all the athletic stuff. And then when you're starting to feel low energy, reduce the intensity of your workouts. So you can manage that a little bit. And then as your gut, over the last three, four months on this protocol,
01:15:03 have you noticed improvements in your gut health? I definitely have. It just then like my period will come on or maybe I do not eat something clean. Like for example, I just traveled. And so I flew and I felt awful yesterday. So it just like fluctuates a ton. But I'll have some days where I feel great. And then I'll have other days where I'm like,
01:15:21 oh my gosh, it's just like never ending. So it's not all bad, but it's just enough from like, okay, let me reach out and get a new set of eyes. So let me give you a little tip. Okay. So when I,
01:15:33 when my gut was super reactive, It's not really as reactive now, but when it was super reactive, when I would eat foods out that I knew could potentially cause an issue, I would take activated charcoal. Okay, I actually have that as well. I just haven't been taking it. Yeah, and so that tends to absorb, you know, whatever reactive issues that I have. And you can take it with the cillium, by the way.
01:15:52 You could have cillium with activated charcoal. And it's because if your issue's motility, by the way, if you tend towards constipation, you're a woman, so that's probably where you go. Yeah, unfortunately. Yeah. So then you would want to make sure you're consistent with the, Sillium because charcoal can also block you up if you take too much of it. Of course.
01:16:09 Yeah. Okay. So, so you, I would take both of those. And then as far as the training is concerned. How's your stability been, yeah, since the rehab? Just like my knee itself or? Yeah. Like when you're training, like, yeah, how.
01:16:22 Yeah. I actually have been struggling more with my knee stiffness. Like I actually feel quite strong and confident in my knee. I just like when I couldn't. So they didn't have me. do any range of motion before. So when I went in to get my fur surgery, my range of motion was like 75 degrees and they were just like, we can't do this. So I've just had a ton of scar tissue issues. When I had the, I had a cyclops lesion and then I had scar tissue on the front. And then they did
01:16:51 a manipulation. So I've had two manipulations. So I'm still like plus or minus 10 to 15 degrees. So I actually deal more with like stiffness, which I think is a lot of muscle guarding. Like my hamstring constantly is just like battling. So it's not even a stability thing. It's literally just getting my body to freaking relax and, like, trust that it's not going to snap again, which has been tough. Have you used isometric? Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Yeah, yeah.
01:17:16 I usually start all my exercises, like my workouts with that. And then even on my recovery days, I do some amount of those. So, like, I mean, I feel like I've been trying to do it. Like, I've been working with someone online. It's like an ACL person, which has been a lot better because I've just the Western. I'm just like off a website. mustard medicine a little bit in the whole thing. So I kind of have like navigated away from that a little bit.
01:17:40 So that's helpful. And I have a lot of faith in the programming aspect at least, which is one stressor that's been nice to not have on my plate. No, that's great. And one of the ways to use is is asymmetrics for instability is, uh, you put your knee in a position. Like let's say, you know, flexing my knee, I can get to a certain point. Like, okay, this is about as far as big angles is I can flex my knee. That's where I would apply the isometric. Yep.
01:18:02 So I would try to create safety. to my CNS, yeah. So it's like, it's not just flexing the quad and the hamstring. It's like putting it in the position where it feels unstable. Yeah. Then I apply the isometric for 10 seconds and then rest. And then that can create, because here's what happens with surgery. So people think that the issue is once you get everything fixed, you should be fine.
01:18:25 But there's trauma there and the body remembers. And so it's like it's guarding. It's constantly guarding. Oh, yeah. I've been doing like hypnotherapy, even just to be. be like, you're fine, and it's just been the whole thing. I think it's, it's, it's, that can maybe help. I've looked at the data on that.
01:18:40 It's kind of mixed. But I know isometrics are really good at it because what it does is it creates stability in that scary place. 15 degrees, yeah, from that spot. Yeah, so it's like if, uh, right here is where my shoulder feels unstable, that's where I'm going to create, uh, the tension and I'm going to teach my body that that place is okay. Um, and that seems to help, uh, quite a bit when I've worked with clients.
01:19:01 But the gut health is the number one thing. But I would, if you're okay with bone broth. protein, push that, and when you have the larger meals, add the cillium husk. And that, with a big glass of water. And that should help with the, with the motility. I think doing that, bump in the sodium and reducing the zone too, I think you should feel a difference right away. Yeah.
01:19:19 It should be pretty fast. And I can make those changes like today. Yeah, yeah. And I'm going to tell you this right now, Haley. You're actually doing really well. Yeah. You literally tore everything in your knee. There's not a.
01:19:31 Yeah, I feel like I. You saw that. We're like, oh, my God. an honorary physical therapist now because I've just, I've had the, like I actually caught my Cyclops lesion because I was like feeling, I was limping still and stuff. So I'm like, research and everything.
01:19:44 And I'm like looking into all this stuff. So I'm like, I'll probably go into some type of training or medical field after this because I'm like, I might as well, I'm halfway there, basically. You know what? I tell you what, here's the other side of it. And I don't know if this resonates with you, Haley, but when you're a high performing anything
01:20:00 and it kind of becomes a part of your identity, there's no way to prevent that, right? So much your life was dedicated to playing basketball that it's like, what do I do now? Yeah, I felt that a little bit. Of course, of course. But, hey, what you went through, what you're learning, it could make you a phenomenal corrective exercise specialist,
01:20:21 sports medicine specialist, for sure. Or physical therapist. And it could give you that sense of purpose that you might be kind of missing right now because you're not able to do the thing that you were so good at. Yeah. I thought even like sports, psychology just to like somehow combining those things because I'm like man even just day to day it's so
01:20:39 just I've never experienced an injury before and I'm like I can't even like people go through this all the time like how do they survive like everyone's so strong and you went through a major one that's a big one it's like injuries or one thing and then like major injuries or no that's a major injury yeah yeah I didn't even really I've never thought of it that way I just put myself in that group of like we're all injured but no no no usually it was that the terrible triad yeah Yeah, and then they also added in a little LCO and the other risk. So I don't know what they call that one, but I got it. Just add that in.
01:21:10 Yeah, it could make you a phenomenal person in that space. And I know how important it is to have a sense, like a something to target and a sense of purpose. And so I just want to encourage you, if you kind of feel that, go in that direction. And you could be a tremendous asset to other athletes. Yeah. That are going through something. I even got chills with you saying that. So, yeah, I definitely, it's definitely on my radar now compared to before.
01:21:33 like, oh, I'll just play until I can't. And I'm like, oh, shoot, like, I can't play. So, like, what am I doing now? So it's, like, definitely giving me that perspective. And I think I would really enjoy it and stuff. So, like, I appreciate just the guidance towards that direction. Some of the best coaches that I've ever worked with were athletes where their, their athletic dreams were kind of taken from them. And they became the best I'd ever seen.
01:21:58 So you just, you just. And I'm going to say something right now. You're going to make way more money doing that than trying to play professional women's basketball. Yeah. Even at this one, like, should I even play again? Like, I can just go on a trip for like on my own and not have to be in shape and like watch my diet the whole. Well, I mean, it's to watch my diet because my stomach keeps me. But like I'm just like, yeah, I don't know.
01:22:22 I want to at least try to like I just have it set like I need to like, I want the decision. Like can I play like, do I want to play? I want it to be like, no, you can't. So that's kind of where I'm at. But yeah, you're definitely not wrong in anything that you just said. You're doing great. Last thing I would add, Haley, is if you're, are you adding any peptides to see if they can help? Because there's peptides for gut health and for, yeah.
01:22:43 Yeah, I actually just saw my mom sees like a hormone specialist and we just started looking into that. But it is illegal. I don't know, like the FIBA and like the World Doping Agency. I don't think they're allowed. That's right. That's right. Yeah. However, I have looked into that because I'm like really,
01:23:01 willing to try anything. So you sound like a woman of lots of integrity. I'm just going to say something for other people who are listening. They don't know how they can't test for those things. Anyway. Anyway, but if you decide, but if you decide to just go down the field of correctional exercise or physiotherapy or, you know, sports psychologist, then you're totally clear to use them. And BPC 157 thymus and beta is not just good for healing. It's also phenomenal for gut health. That is why I was like, man, I could do like a little two for one action here. Like it's very tempting. So I'll have to talk with her again because that was her concern. She's like, I don't want to do anything that would jeopardize your career.
01:23:37 And I also actually have never been tested as a professional, like knock on wood. But so something to think about. So that is good to know. Because I really, like, if you look it up, it says they're not allowed. Yeah, I know. There's no way to test for them, which is hilarious. They're trying to scare us. They are.
01:23:52 And then Red Light Therapy would be the other thing that I want to have. Yeah, I've been doing that. Oh, you're good. Yeah. Hey, you would make a great coach. I know. Thank you. You would be doing all the things.
01:24:00 Yeah. Yeah, if you ever, if you want to go- Keep us in the loop. If you ever get in the coaching route, we hire coaches here at Mind Pup all the time. I've been doing basketball coaching and training, and I've loved it. But I just, like, I feel really cold to work with, like, women and, like, athletes that have, like, been injured and stuff. Because I just also think women are generally in the medical field, not understood and not really given the resources and stuff they have. And I've just, unfortunately, dealt with a lot of the men in the space that have just been a nightmare. But I love you guys.
01:24:28 I listen to you guys. Yeah, no. I'm glad we're the. You're going to the rule. There's always an exception. It feels like this is the beginning of a fork in the road. So keep us in touch. I definitely agree.
01:24:37 And it's actually kind of inspiring, like hearing this perspective from you guys too. So even if I do play, I think I might maybe start some classes or certifications and stuff just because I might as well. But yeah, no, like that just feels nice to hear from you guys. Keep us in the loop. Keep us in the loop. Let us know how the Cillium Husk helps. Yeah. Yeah.
01:24:55 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate it. All right. Good luck.
01:25:00 Thank you. Thank you. Bye. She's a tough girl. Yeah. I mean, she's got a great attitude. Listen, for people listening right now. Yeah.
01:25:08 She tore everything. It's a traumatic, traumatic thing. It's a terrible triad plus one. The only thing she didn't tear was her Pertelotin. I'm like trying to think of all of them. It's like hanging on by a threat. Yeah, dude. And the fact that she's working out and able to do what she's doing is exceptional.
01:25:24 By the way. She's got a good coach. And I want to add this, like gut health challenges are really common with high level. athletes. So that's the other part of it. Losing the period, all that stuff is very calm. I wouldn't be surprised if she bumps her sodium she knows his difference. I think so. I think that was a good call. Because she's eating so clean. You're right.
01:25:40 And low calorie and doing all that. And then her coconut water is not super. Not high enough sodium. Yeah. So be really interesting to see what happens if she feels a difference just from that alone. Our next caller is David from Massachusetts. David, how's it going? How are you? What's going on, guys? What's going on
01:25:58 about yourself? I want to start off first talk to Adam. I was on the show back in April 24, but this time, you know, Adam, I'm a real big sneak ahead. And I know, I think you're a size 12. Yes. And all right, good.
01:26:12 So anytime you feel like donating those shoes, especially Travis Scott S.B. Dunks, you can send it to Massachusetts anytime. That's good to know. That's good to know. I got you. One of the reasons why I watch you guys actually on the YouTube,
01:26:23 so I can see what you're wearing, bro. Oh, wow. All right. That's new. Right on, brother. So anyway, so. So like I said, I previously was a caller on April 24. At that point, I started my strength training journey, and that September. To go back a little bit, I used to be 505 pounds. And within the past six years, I made a commitment to change that. I want to be around for my kids and for myself and my wife, right? So slowly, surely, I'm down now to 264, 268. All on my own. So the thing is, is that, But I'm plateauing a little bit.
01:27:01 So originally when I talked to you in 24, I had, I was called about, I was getting a lot of nagging injuries. I just started training. Probably wasn't, you know, probably pushing myself a little too hard at first. And then you guys gave me maps 15, which worked out great, had some elbow tendonitis, some forearm pain, you know, those can go on. I fix all those issues. But now I feel like, so at that time when I talked to you, I was about 294, 298. So as I said, it was 24 of April now as September 26. I'm 264, 268.
01:27:33 So I've lost about 20 pounds. But it's been three years, almost. And I feel like I'm plateauing. I'm not sure what I can do at this point. I feel like my strength might be plateauing. My weight loss is plateauing. I just want to see what I can kind of kick drive and get it going again, you know? And then I have a couple other questions.
01:27:50 But yeah, that's kind of what the gist of it is, guys. Dude, how tall are you? I'm about six feet. Yeah. So you're, I want you to, first of all, when you're getting to a weight now that isn't like too far off, like what would be a great weight. And so it should slow down. Like obviously coming from 500 to where you're at now was probably some. But you now if we do a good job of building muscle, the scale doesn't move as nearly as fast anymore.
01:28:15 And dude, I just want to encourage you. You look really good. And I'm looking at your picture, dude. You're jacked. Yeah, you're muscular, dude. Like you're really jack. You know what is? I hate to interrupt.
01:28:24 You know what sucks too, guys? So I was 505. And when I used to be 505, I had, which is crazy. I had no body this morphia. I swear to God, I would get a hiccup call my wife at work. But hey, you see my new hip. I look great. I didn't look great.
01:28:36 You know what I mean? You know what I mean? So now being, you know, I'm a string training for almost three years. Now actually this month is three years. And, you know, I have good days and bad days. But I'm telling you, I have the worst body of this morning that I've ever had in my whole life at this point. Okay. So we're going to address that.
01:28:52 That's the most important thing. Okay, David. So let me ask you a question. question. If you stayed like this for the rest of your life, okay, you got the muscle, you're strong, I'm assuming, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, your energy is way through the roof compared to how it was, your mobility is way through the roof compared to how it was, your quality of life is way through the roof compared to how it was. What's the problem if you just stayed like this? Now, you're not going to, but I want you to just put yourself in that
01:29:19 mental state. If you stay like this, what's the issue? Yeah. Geez, I can go. Listen, my goal from the beginning of this journey was to hit 220. I think 220, almost six feet tall. I think to me, that's an ideal weight for me. That's always been my goal. It still is.
01:29:38 Like you said, Sal, if I was to stay here for the rest of my life, God, sure, I'll take it. I mean, I worked hard to get here. And being at 505, yeah, I have quite a testimony where I've come from. And I have so much more back to my story, but I'm not going to bother you. with all that stuff. Have we? I'm sorry. Yeah, I just, I'm curious, during this process,
01:29:59 um, have you, have we like, tried to actually like reverse diet and build? Because I know it sounds so counterintry. Well, you know what? I feel like I, I think I have the, I think I do that on my own periodically anyways. I feel like I'll have some good weeks where I kind of cut down when I'm eating and then
01:30:12 a couple weeks where I kind of, you know, push that up a little bit. So I think I kind of balance it out pretty good. But speaking of stuff, like, I always tell people, people, you know, people look at me. And obviously, you know, I had the best problem I ever had in my life recently at the gym. Some guy I've been working with, you know, we just say hi, cross paths. And he said to me, hey, man, I just want to let you know, you look great. And he didn't know I came from 5005 pounds. So those compliments to me is much better than someone that knows I came from 505 pounds.
01:30:38 You know what I mean? But anyways, point being. So I tell, like, you know, when people ask me, how'd you do it? I tell them, to be honest, you know, I'll tell you guys, I do like an 80-20, like 80% good whole foods and the fuel that I need. And then 20% is, you know what I'm saying? that I feel like having on going out with the family or the friend, you know. Yeah. So, David, I'm going to caution you, okay?
01:30:58 Because you're at a, first off, you got to a place most people don't get to. Number one. So you got really far. But now you're at a crossroads. And I'm going to tell you something. Sure. If you chase 220 with the body dysmorphia attitude, you're not going to be any happier at 220. You'll be less happy.
01:31:16 Okay. Now, what I'm about to tell you is simultaneously going to make you happier. and also slowly probably continue to improve your health and fitness. And that's this, because you've been consistent for three years. Yes. Now, at this time, you just enjoy it. You just enjoy it, bro. When you go to the gym, you try new exercises, you try getting good at them.
01:31:38 That's what you do. You have fun with it. You continue to enjoy what you're eating. Don't pay so much close attention to the scale. I'll be honest. Go ahead. I'm sorry. I'll be honest with you at this point.
01:31:48 I tell my wife, I'm like, listen, going to the gym now, is almost therapy for me. Whatever I'm feeling that day or the stress is alive, I walk in those doors and those are gone for the hour plus that I'm there. I'm sure they'll come right back
01:32:00 when I leave here, but for that hour and a half I'm there, they're gone. And let me tell you, son, the getting in shape or feeling better
01:32:05 by myself or looking better or whatever the case is, it's just a side effect now. I'll be honest with you. I just turn 50. So it's just, you know, and that's another thing about my programming.
01:32:13 Like I do a lot of, my own PPL, my own upper lower. I'll slip it up. Like right now I'm doing a PPL with an upper. So I don't know. I kind of like both of those things.
01:32:22 I know you guys both have programs like that, but that's kind of just letting know what I'm doing there too. You're at such a good place right now that you can admit you have like an 80-20 rule, 80% of time you dial the other 20 sounds like you enjoy yourself. And you know the lift weights, be strong, you love working out. And if we want another level, if I was training you and coaching you, there's things that we can tweak. But I think the point Sal is making,
01:32:45 if you let the body dysmorphia drive you to that number, you'll reach that number and you'll still be unhappy. And the things that you do to get that number may make you unhappy. And the rebound is a real possibility if you do it that way. Right. But there is definitely things that we can do to tighten it up. And the question just becomes, do you really want to do it that bad? Because if I would want to put you in a controlled reverse diet where we are still dieting,
01:33:11 but we're doing it with the intent of adding calories strategically to build muscle, not by the whim of the week. Now, that's how you should live, in my opinion. That's how I live. I live in 80, 20 type of role. I'm not tracking. I'm not calculating. I'm not reverse dieting.
01:33:25 I have good weeks where I'm dialed. I'm eating whole foods and low calories. I have other weeks where I'm vacationing, enjoying, and eating a little bit over. And it keeps me about where I'm at. Yeah. But if I want to make moves, I got Cabo in three weeks, and I want to start to see a difference. Now I got to really dial it in. And you're 260 to 220 range for a guy who's where you're already out.
01:33:46 It's dialing it in now. You just could ask yourself, do you want that? And here's, look, you know what you are, David? You're the perfect client. Have you thought about working with a coach to go from here to where you want to go next? I have in the past, but I'll be honest to you financially at this point. I probably couldn't do it. So I'll just be honest with you guys right now.
01:34:04 So I think that's something that's in the back. Burn I have two kids in college and all that good stuff, you know. No, I get it. No, no, I get it. So listen, here's what you should do. What Adam's saying is you could dial in that 20% a little bit and you'll see some movement. okay. So you can definitely dial it in. But what I want you to do is focus on performance. I don't want you to focus on the scale. And you can focus on strength. You can focus on mobility. You can focus on a new
01:34:29 exercise, a different kind of routine. Sounds like you've done a lot of bodybuilding style routines. So you could try. You could try, you can try map symmetry, which is a very different. Matt's old time it would be good for him if you like to get strong. You can try map strong, which has got strong man type exercises, old timey, which has got some exercise guarantee you've never done before. And just have fun with it. I don't mean to interrupt, but like, I'll be honest about that too. It's that. So I had my gobletter removed.
01:34:54 And then shortly after my surgery, my general surgeon, I performed, they said, after six weeks, you get to go. I said, well, I do street training. I lift heavy weight. Oh, no, you're fine. Six weeks, you're ready. I go, okay. So I was dying to get back in the gym. Six weeks on the dog, I went right back in there.
01:35:07 Sure enough, from deadlifting, I got incisional hernia. Yeah. So this has been almost a year now that I've had the surgery, but I can still feel a little bit a tightness there when I kind of push it a little bit. So I get nervous with that with big compound movements now. I'll be honest. Two things, David. I'm going to send you map symmetry.
01:35:27 Yeah. I want you to follow, especially after what you just said. Follow map symmetry. It's different than what you did. And it will shape and sculpt your body in visible ways, okay, for sure, especially if you've never trained in that way before. So I'm going to send you map symmetry.
01:35:41 And then if diet-wise, I like what you're doing, bro. Honest, my advice to you is just keep going. but if you want to see a little bit of movement, it's the 20%. It's that 20%. And what you've got to do is make it 10. That's it. Just go 9010. Yeah.
01:35:54 9010, we'll get things to move again. A good rule that helps me when I'm trying to go from there is that when you're not perfect, right? So you have your great weeks where you're dialed, everything. On the weeks that I'm maybe more flexible, I make a rule to myself that I at least have to hit my protein first before I allow myself to have that X, X, Y, Z. thing that tends to really pull it back quite a bit versus this is my 20% where I'm just enjoying
01:36:22 myself. I'll eat the French fries first or I'll do this like no it's like I still got to get the protein first and then I'll enjoy the food tends to tailor. So I do this similar thing to Adam. The other thing that I'll do is when I go eat the thing that isn't, you know, part of my healthy food, I go get my dessert, let's say, and then I eat half of it. So I go, this is what I would normally, I'm going to go half. So now what I've done is I've taken, I've now cut it in half. half and I do that consistently and I always see drop some body fat percentage just by doing that alone.
01:36:51 When you guys think about adding some cardio, is that something I should, do you think about? Yeah, I've been wondering. That's totally fine. How's your daily steps? Do you track your daily steps? Oh, geez.
01:37:02 Honestly, it's high. I get 10 to 15,000 steps a day. I go to the gym. I do a bunch of stuff, you know, a bunch of errands running around, doing things, walking the dog, you name it. By the end of the night, I'm usually never less than 10.
01:37:14 If you add anything, if you feel recovered and you're feeling strong, you're following map symmetry. What you could do is add a performance style of cardio. So like a 12-minute hit session once a week, don't worry about the calorie burn. It's just to build your stamina. That would be the only thing that I would say you could add. Otherwise, your steps are great. Yeah, you're moving enough that I would be okay there. And to Salas point, if you want to build some stamina, I'd do that.
01:37:37 But this is going to be through program. Also, you said something, you kind of run your own thing and you have an 80-20 on the diet. those two things for me as a coach I hear is a huge opportunity. Like there, trust me, there's something to like follow symmetry to a T. Don't do your own thing. We know what we're doing. Don't add. Don't add shit when you feel like you could do more.
01:37:55 Follow symmetry to a T. Trust the process. So trust in us that we got you there. And then take the little bit of advice on the diet thing and that'll help. That'll be it. A few, a couple of questions. You guys, let's go ahead. One, if you want to throw in the PPL program with it, I'm cool with that.
01:38:11 So the other thing, so protein timing, is there such a thing? Protein timing? Yes. It really makes no difference. It's all about digestion. The only time protein timing makes a difference is by eating it first in the meal for satiety. So when you eat a meal, eat the protein first. That's the timing that I focus on.
01:38:31 And what's far more important than the time that you eat it in regards to when you worked out or what part of the day, it's more important that you just hit it every day. every day because and this is consistently. People don't understand this. It's different than carbs and fats. So if you have like a day where you had 230 grams of protein and then the next day where you hit 150,
01:38:50 it's not the average of the two. You hit it on one day. You failed the second day. So you got to have that mindset going into every day. You got to hit it. Right. That's the, I find that to be a problem too
01:39:00 because a lot of times on the weekends for some reasons, I don't go the gym's on the week. I go four days to the gym. I go Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday. That's usually my schedule. And on the weekends, I usually fast.
01:39:08 So I'll fast an average of 16 hours on Saturday and Sunday, especially I go to church and then sometimes it's even longer on Sunday. Sometimes it's 18, 19 hours. So that's why I know I'm definitely not getting the protein. There's our opportunity right there. You know what? There's our opportunity right there. Easy fix. Just fast on one of those days.
01:39:24 Make the other one consistent. All right. That's it. And then one other question, when it comes to the supplement, once you guys top five supplements slash vitamins, you would recommend. I'm just curious. Yeah. Multivitamin, vitamin D3, omega-3 fatty acids that are high in EPA and Craibate. All right. So that's all checked off then. And then do you guys have a recipe book on the website
01:39:44 running chance or something that maybe I can maybe look into something a little bit more when comes to changing my food? Okay. So I liked Sean Stevenson's cookbook is awesome. Oh yeah. Look up Sean Stevenson's cookbook. He was on our show and talked about it. Look at look his up. He's got a lot of really good healthy recipes in there. All right. Well, you know what? That's pretty much it. You know, like I said, this has been quite a journey. I've never thought, you know, I'd be, my wife used to tell me, you know, I know you would love if you started working out on straight training. I'm like, yeah, yeah, and I had a little fear. I think a lot of things people have that fear, especially being 5005 pounds, going to gym, not knowing what you're doing. But now, geez, if I miss a day, yeah, a lot of you guys talk about that, that mental part of it.
01:40:27 Now I struggle not to go. So it's like, you know, so it was up to me, I go every day. What a success story, David. Yeah, yeah. Phenomenal, bro. Yeah. Great job, dude. Great job.
01:40:36 And to do it on your own is very impressive. I appreciate it, guys. I really do it. I'll be honest with you. You guys have guided me a little bit on the way these past three years since I caught your podcast. I love listening to you guys. You guys are pretty cool. And yeah, that's all I got to say. You guys are pretty cool, man. God bless you, David. Thank you. Keep me up. Yeah, God bless you. Thank you guys very much. Take it easy, brother. Don't forget. Oh, cut him off. Hey. Oh, we forgot. What a what is, bro, he's Jack. Yeah, yeah, I know. He's doing good. That picture he sent was Jack, dude. Well, I mean, he, he's getting, here's the thing. It's hard to be
01:41:08 that consistent, number one. But if you are, then you start to run into this hurdle of what's the next goal? What's the next thing? Yeah. And the body is more forward. Yeah. And at that point, there is a transition and the transition turns into now I do it because I love it. Well, this is such an interesting thing. And I'm glad you really called him out on the body dysmorphia thing and how that will, even when you reach your problem. Because to be able to be at 80, 20, you're eating, right? Bro, he's living great. And he's fasting on the weekends for hours. So he's definitely not hitting protein there. He's kind of doing his own routine. He's kind of modifying things that he's learned.
01:41:42 I mean, there's plenty of room. He's enjoying every year now. Yeah, exactly. It's like, you don't want to really change that because it's proven. You're not going to enjoy it if you push you far forward. He's kept it for three years that way. And if he just keeps going over three years, he'll make. He's going to keep progressing.
01:41:55 Yeah, it's just slower now because he's closer to where he should be body weight-wise. He's a six-foot. He said 220. I can tell he's big bone, too. You can tell my calves and his ankles. He said 220, but the picture he sent flexing, I'm like, bro, you're a 240 would be lean for you. You know what I mean?
01:42:11 Maybe. That's what I mean. He's not far off from where he should be anyways. And to be able to have that flexibility has, it's like, okay, well, yeah, we can turn some knobs. Extend that out. It all happened. But will it really make you happier.
01:42:24 If you was my client, here's exactly what I would do, is I would talk them off the ledge of trying to do many major changes. And I'd be like, we're just going to have fun, bro. We're going to have fun and we're going to make this fun. We'll find something for you to do. And we're going to turn this into a permanent thing. Yep. Our next caller is Heather from Minnesota.
01:42:40 Hey, welcome back. Hey, Heather. Hey, fellas. Do we have the race? Did it go? Did you do it? I did not finish. Oh, wow.
01:42:49 I'm not going to cry. Okay, maybe I might cry. I made it 38 miles. And here's what happens. And so this is the third time. This has happened during a race. And you guys are great coaches and we have worked with a lot of athletes. So maybe you'll have some insight for me.
01:43:08 So I just started off the race really thirsty, like just plowing through water. And it was hot and humid, but I've trained a lot in hot and humid weather. And just drinking, drinking lots of water. And then I go to pee and I can't pee. I'm not peeing. I had electrolytes. I love LMNT. I love their watermelon salt.
01:43:31 It's my favorite. So electrolytes, water, drinking, drinking, drinking. And then like I just had. have that feeling like you would have if you had a urinary tract infection. Like you have to pee, but do not peeing. And then by mile, okay, I'm not going to cry. By mile 36, I stopped to use the restroom and I was peeing blood. And then it took me about a mile to come to my senses to realize my race was over.
01:43:58 And so I had to backtrack. So I ended up getting 38 miles and quit the race. This has happened to me in two other races. One race, I ended up finishing it because I didn't realize what the issue was. It was the first time. And it was also hot and humid. And that race was 68 miles. It was 100K. So somewhere around in there. And then the other race was the Arrowhead 135, which was minus 20 degrees. So nothing at all to do with hot in humidity. And that one ultimately, I also go. stopped at mile 38. So I don't know what's going on. I went to the doctor yesterday and tested for UTI. It was negative, same as the last two times. This is a new doctor and she's like, well, I think we should do an ultrasound on your kidneys and your bladder to see what's going on, to see if there's something structurally, maybe a cyst or kidney stones. I don't know, just going to start crossing things off the list to figure out what's going to.
01:45:03 on here because I feel like it's not probably just a ultra running issue. This could be something that, you know, maybe it's just a larger medical issue overall. Heather, has this ever happened to you when not doing a race? It's never happened in training, and that's really interesting because I've had some juicy training this summer. I went out to Colorado and climbed a couple of 14ers. One was a nine-hour day and it was really hot. Like you get to the peak and you're still in your sports bra because it was hot. Very strenuous.
01:45:39 No problems all. I've had other races. And this is all within the last two years. I've had other races within the last two years where I've not have problems. So I don't know. I'm like, is it something I'm eating? Is it something I'm drinking? Is it something I'm doing on a race day that I'm not doing in training?
01:45:58 Kind of just making a list of all the things. and going to just start crossing them off. Do they test your K levels when you're post-training to see if they're really elevated? Um, CK, what's, what's that? So like, it's a marker of muscle damage. So, okay. And if it's too high, they'll put, they'll give you, um, fluids and sometimes dialysis. So I don't know if you've ever, when you get your blood test, I'm, they typically will test that.
01:46:26 Okay. Um, and so I would look at markers of muscle damage. Okay. and see if anything's going on there. In extreme cases, it can show up. It's blood. I like that you're doing the ultrasound to see if there's anything structural. One other thing, too, Heather, and you know, you don't have to answer this if you don't want to.
01:46:43 Because you're obviously, you're getting teared up because you had this goal, weren't able to do it. What does that say to you about your identity when something like that happens? Because it's obviously it's attached to something and you didn't do it and it's very painful. What is that telling you about you? I think it's a couple of things. You know, it's when you, I train really hard. I get up early in the morning to train. I've got two teenagers that are 17 and 15.
01:47:14 So I try not to let my, you know, crazy hobby interfere with their lives. And so I had four friends waiting for me in a camper that they were going to pace me for this. So I feel like I let them down and deprive them of a little bit of adventure. I think for me it's always the adventure of it. It's not necessarily, I love training. I love picking out different adventures to make it a part of my overall training plan. And so I think as long as I can, you know, have adventure in my life and go on fun camping trips and backpacking trips and hiking trips. if the doctors come back and are like, well, you know, you're done doing ultramarathons.
01:48:02 It's just not in the picture. I'll find a way to, I think, get those same feelings because it's a lot, for me, it's a lot about camaraderie. My girlfriends and I, kind of how you guys sit and talk with one another, we have those same conversations at 8.30 in the morning. We solve all the world's problems. We get together. We go to the gym together. We go on adventures together. It's those friendships that I have.
01:48:27 built with those girlfriends. So I think there are other ways to go about having that, those same feels. It's just disappointing. Of course. Of course. Because it's the training, the adventure, it's all great. But there's something about the competition that I'm trying to point to a little bit. Because you can get all those things without that.
01:48:48 You can get all, you can get the adventure. You can get the camaraderie. You can get the outdoors. You can get all of that and not do ultra marathon. on. I've been in sports my whole life. I love to compete. I like to do hard things. I can't imagine not participating in a sport. I just enjoy it. I enjoy the camaraderie. Of course. I enjoy of course. This is the hard part of tying your identity to something that at some point eventually will stop. I mean, you still can do it, but in 20 years, you're not going to be able to do it because
01:49:28 that's just how it works. Right. So the suggestion I have for you, and forgive me if this is a two forward, but someone like you who's done these things, who has such and does a good job at them, and you're tougher than 99% of the people in the world for doing them, a sport psychologist, I think, would be really beneficial for you. And it could help you compete. It actually could help you compete. This is what sports psychologists work with. Part of it is that identity in this thing. And if it doesn't go the way I anticipated, I'm devastated.
01:50:01 Even though I still train, even though I get to do all these things, even though I'm still, it's like, what is it about this that devastates me so much? By the way, I can identify with some of this. And I've worked with people where this has been a real struggle. And sports psychologists, they do a phenomenal job. and it could make this more enjoyable for you. Sure. Yeah, I have, I've spoke with a sports psychologist before we,
01:50:27 because I had mentioned the winter ultra-marathons. That's kind of my jam. I love them. Yeah. And we put on a clinic every winter for just women. And we comes, she's a sports psychologist, and she comes and she talks to us about all sorts of things. Every year it's been a different topic.
01:50:52 I don't know that alter racing is my identity, though. I don't think I want to put myself in that box because there's so many other things. If I were to say what's my identity, probably being a mom is number one. And I think I had mentioned in my email, I'm not, I don't have a winter race signed up this year for the first time in six years. I'm not doing a winter race. My son is 17. He's going to be 18.
01:51:17 he's graduating this year and I don't have that mental bandwidth to be able to focus on a race plan and you know be a thousand percent present for him in his senior year as he's you know looking at colleges and scholarships and all of the things so I don't I don't know that I want to put myself in just that that box that okay it's I think it's I put myself in the adventure box first yeah have you have you Have you thought about coaching other people? Yeah, I was just thinking so. I did a little bit of coaching in college. I played rugby for UMD.
01:51:54 And so I did a little bit of post-college. I did do a little bit of coaching. But, you know, maybe when my kids are both out of the household, that's something that I would consider. I do love sports. I participate in a wide variety of sports and always have my whole lot. life. So I love watching sports. I think coaching would be a lot of fun. I think you'd make an excellent coach. I think a one-on-one coach you'd do really well too. There's a lot of young ladies out there that want to be able to do what you do that could use someone with your experience for sure.
01:52:32 As far as training is concerned, with all of the other stuff that you do, the 15 protocol, all the 15 programs are perfect for you. I'm really curious to see what the ultrasound say about your kidneys because that is a very interesting thing that happens. What's interesting to me is I almost want to connect it to the damage from training, but what's weird is it doesn't happen during your training. It only happens during competition. So it's almost, it's either like crazy timing or there's a connection to the training. Yeah.
01:53:03 And I wonder, like, I don't know, I've tossed around a thousand different ideas really in my head. And my girlfriends, too, who train with me and who go on adventures with me, maybe nerves the race morning maybe i'm you know maybe i'm just having coffee and and need to focus on like put the coffee down just have water and maybe there's something with electrolytes and coffee and irritating my bladder right away when i first went to the doctor after it happened in that 100k they called it slapping bladder slender which slapping bladder sounds like a 90s alternative rock bad. Slopping bladder.
01:53:46 You know, it made me laugh. And I had finished that race, but I really did not feel good for several days. So I don't, I'm not buying slapping bladder. I don't, I'm not. Yeah, because I feel like that would happen. That's, and correct me if I'm wrong, that's from the constant jarring motion that can cause. Yeah. Okay.
01:54:05 So how much, how much rest leading up to the competition? Like the week before, do you shut it down completely? I do. I do shut it down when I'll, I'll do a little. little, you know, light jog and just do some pickups, you know. So I'll, like the most I'll do, I think that week was 45 minutes at a 13-minute mile pace on a pretty flat trail. So I really shut it down. I did not do any of the 15-minute workouts that week. My last one, I think, was that Friday before. I definitely love day seven with just the mobility, with the land,
01:54:44 mine and then the legs and then the walking like good morning sunshines or whatever they're called um so that that i mean fitting that in is nothing i'm very i'm very very curious to see what the ultrasound says because it could be it could be kidney it could be the tubes that connect to to the urinary tract there could be something structurally there right which i would i would also i'm also kind of pointing in that direction muscle damage is the other one okay but i but that's weird because it doesn't happen when you're training really hard outside of competition. Yeah.
01:55:19 Which is really strange. You would typically see it, you would have seen it at least once. And that's my guess. That's my guess. I'm really interested to see what the ultrasound shows. Me too. Fingers crossed that it's, you know, I don't
01:55:35 know. It's a silly hobby of mine ultra running and if I have to stop doing it, so be it. I'll you know figure out something else in in life um just adventures um so i don't know are your friends running with you or they just they're training supporting you or is it like so i have a couple of other crazy friends that also do the 100s um and then i have some friends that just enjoy running um we call ourselves the damn damn names because we meet from a dam um and we meet at 530 in the morning and They're just the best bunch of girlfriends you could ever ask for.
01:56:17 They're just, you know, support you through highs and lows, running, not running. Several us have kids the same age. We're just, you know, the bond that you build with your friends doing a support is so different and so special. And I just, I'm the luckiest. I keep feeling like I got to push this, but I think you would make such a great coach. I know. Yeah. I think you would get more, you would get more.
01:56:41 You would get more. You would get more. You pour yourself into somebody. Yeah. And I think you would get so much out of coaching someone else with all the knowledge and expertise and wisdom you have around it. You would still train and do your own training. Yeah.
01:56:55 But I think you would make a phenomenal coach. You just take one person. Yeah. Think about it. Think about it. Yeah. I know it brings so much joy to, I know it did for me. And I know people that have done this who were.
01:57:05 It's a great transition to, you know, stepping from athlete to coach. It's a big deal. You know, it's a new identity. ship, but it really helps, I think, with that, you know, creating that and then pouring it into somebody else and seeing them thrive in it. Yeah, I've always said my A goal is to be able to sit in a canoe when I'm 80 years old and go into the boundary waters on a canoe camping trip. And so if ever my racing were to interfere with that A goal of sitting in a canoe when I'm 80 with hopefully some grandchildren, you know, I'm shocked at the suggestion of coaching, but I really love it.
01:57:41 I think that would be a great way to continue in a sport that I love. I think if you put yourself out in that community, you would have a bunch of young ladies who would look at someone like you who's done it a bunch of times. Yeah. And they'd be like, please coach me. I would hire you. It would be fun.
01:57:55 I would hire you. Wow. I was going to come up with a name for you guys. Slap bladder. The bladder slappers. Bladder slappers. Hey, wait, if you could keep us posted on what the ultrasound show, because I'm very curious.
01:58:09 I would do that. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. And thank you. Thank you so much for the, for the program. I really, I definitely, the workload was just perfect. Good. And I really enjoy it.
01:58:21 The Turkish get-ups, you can have them. I absolutely hated the Turkish get-ups. It's a bit of a grind, yeah. Yeah. But everything else. And I'm so I'm on phase two, on the second week, I think, is where I'm at right now. Let me send you another one. Let me send you another Mass 15.
01:58:37 We gave you performance, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah, well, I was thinking, I think I wrote in the email that I'm not planning on any racing, and I'm really honestly not planning on any mileage more than 20 miles a week. And I do miss a little bit of my girlfriend time in the gym. And so if you think there would be something that I could still do 20 miles, but get like an hour in the gym with my girlfriend. Just keep in mind 20 miles is still a decent amount of running.
01:59:06 Yeah, dude. I know that sounds like nothing to you. I think I ran 20 miles for between 2010 and now. Yeah, yeah. So, Mass 15 is a great protocol for you. Yeah, I like Mass 15 symmetry.
01:59:22 So let me send that to you. Okay. Oh, wow. Okay. Awesome. You got to keep us posting. Well, keep working through this. And thank you guys so much.
01:59:28 I love your podcast. Thank you. And I'm a devote listener. And I'll keep you posting. Thank you. Thanks, other. All right. Thank you.
01:59:37 Bye-bye. Bye. Yeah. Yeah, that's so tough because she's good at what she does. Yes. Better than most people. And then to see that, oh, I got to stop. And so there is an identity aspect of it.
01:59:51 Oh, God, bro. I struggle with, you know, I know, because I don't have the time to build a relationship because the normal me has, I mean, do we really need the doctor to let us know? Yeah. Do we really need the doctor to let us know whether we should stop this or not? Your body's talking to you. Yeah, no. This isn't one time. This is the third time it's happening competition.
02:00:12 I don't give a shit what he says. Yeah. It's time to hang up the hundred miles. Yeah. And I just, you know, I don't have the relationship with her to be able to speak to her that bluntly. But if you can't see that and you have a problem with that still, you absolutely have identified as this. It's hard to let go, man. Yeah.
02:00:32 Because there is, you can build relationships. You can do hikes. You can explore the outdoors. There are many very healthy ways to go after and pursue all those things. And let me be very clear, running 100 miles are not healthy. No, there's nothing healthy about it. Nothing healthy about it. It's bad for your joints.
02:00:51 It's bad for your kidneys. It's stressful on the body. It's extremely extreme. Yeah, extreme in any physical pursuit. And I mean, there's no longevity in it. And it's exactly. And it's crazy enough to try and do it one time to say you did it. To make that a thing you do on a regular is very unhealthy.
02:01:06 And if you say your ultimate goal is canoeing with your grandchildren in your 80s, that is not the route to go. That's right. And so if you work backwards from that, because I love that goal. I love the idea of identifying as a mother first. And my main goal is to be 80 and canoeing, then this is not the approach. There is a far better approach to this. And in fact, that's the fastest way to probably not be able to do it. No, 100%, which is why I was pushing her to create.
02:01:34 You can't just take. You can't just take something away. No, of course. Like that. Well, that's why I could say, I would not say that to her without us coaching with each other for a long time. But if she coached somebody, if she coached a group of young women, oh my God, she would get great, great sense of purpose and fulfillment out of it. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. It's Mind Pump Media.
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