Mind the Game - An Honest Talk about NBA Officiating and The Rule Changes Over the Years

Episode Date: March 10, 2026

Welcome to another episode of Mind the Game with LeBron James and Steve Nash. In today’s conversation we’ll be talking about the rule changes over the years including the gather step, rip through and many others. Plus the guys talk about the difficulty of being an NBA official in 2026. And finally we answer your fan questions.Thanks for watching and listening to Mind the Game. Be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

I was on X, like a few months ago, and a referee had a mixtape. Stop. Stop. I swear to God, I gotta find it. Stop. Did you see that? You didn't see the referee had a mixtape, and he had the music behind it of him making calls, and it like blurred into another call.

What level was this rough? He was running down. He was running down. It was like he had to be middle school basketball. But I tell you, this shit was fucking hilarious. Y'all pull this up just now? Let's go. Look, this guy,

Ah, to the beat. This is like middle school or freshman? They're like freshmen, it's IMG. No nonsense. No nonsense. He was like this. Yeah. That was bullshit, man.

You thought that was bullshit. I was dying, crying, laughing at this dude, man. That's my- Yeah, that. Boom, right on beat. This episode is presented by Anthropic, the team behind Claude. If you're the kind of person who wants to understand the game at a deeper level,

Claude is built for you. It's an AI thinking partner that helps you work through complexity, not just surface answers. Try it free at clod.a.ai slash mind the game. So something that's kind of piqued my attention and curiosity this year has been officiating. Yeah. They have a tough job. Like this, I'm not here, I'm not trying to... It's more like where are we going with the rules of our game?

game and let's talk through some of the examples. You know, first of all, the obvious ones the gather step. Like how, you know, you can take two or three stepbacks if the ball's conceivably hands on the side of the ball, which is impossible, right, to take two or three steps with the ball still be on the side of your hand. The pickup points that gather, that leads to like when the euro starts. You know, the other thing is like, and this is, the step-through used to be something that you were allowed to do in the women's game. This is not a sexist comment. Do you know I feel like it used to be able to pump fake and then take that full step through? We were never allowed to do that. Now you can do the step through. There's the D-cell step

where you can come one, two, stop on one leg and literally stop. You could never do that in the past. You can do that now. I don't have a problem with it, but we don't explain what is and what isn't to travel anymore. No, we don't. Well enough at least. No, we do not. We do not. And the only thing as a player is so inconsistent the way it's called.

And as players, we just want consistency. And like, on any given night, you can have one official telling you, you know, one thing and then another official telling you another thing. And that's like, the only, I'm like, so my take is like, is this not a world? league conversation that you guys are having to like, this is how we are officiating these plays. This is how we're officiating these moves. This is how we're officiating this? Or is it just like depending on the ref?

Like, you know, so that's like, that's the most frustrating part, like when you're out there and sometimes you can get away with certain things. It's like, you know, even defensively, some games you're allowed to get away with completely bear hugging guys and holding them. And then two nights later, you can barely put your hands on guys.

It's like, okay, so where are we, what are we doing? Yeah. You know, so, yeah, it's just the emphasis on like the evolution of the gather step and, you know, to step through, you know, step after already establishing a pivot foot is, I do not have the answer. I have no idea. Like I said, like, I don't have a problem with it if that's where we're going. But I just, it's almost like I would love some sort of uniform understanding.

of what we're allowing now. I'll go into some other examples, but let's kind of, and whether this sounds like I'm defending the referees or not, like, I feel like, it's like the tech, I've said this before, but like technology's

influencing the rate of change in our world, and the players are now doing the same thing. They're trying different things, they're innovating, the game's changing quickly, and so I give some respect to the players for trying stuff, and I also give an understanding of the officials that this stuff is changing fast. And so that's part of the reason why I love for us to get like more of a handle on it and I'm not saying it's right or wrong

Whichever way you swing You can say something? No, I got I just got a play in my head that just went to my head about the play like let me have it We had a we had a we had a game it was but we had a so we had a game where a guy got filed He was he went up to shoot it he went up to shoot and And he called foul and he and and and he and he and and he had a game. I? It was a late whistle. So when the guy went up to shoot, he didn't hear the whistle. They called a late and he just landed with the ball.

So he never shot it. He never shot it. And the refs said three free throws. That's never been the way I grew up playing the game. Yeah. Like he didn't even tell. He's playing that one away. I understand.

He said, well, he already, you know, he had the ball. He was already looking like he was about this shoot. I'm like, but he never shot the. ball. Like he never shot the ball. So I don't understand. And then there was a play for me the other day. I got, I was

facing so I'm facing this way and the rim is this way and I get filed and I'm about to go up to shoot and I'm about to turn and shoot it and the ref said on the side. And I said, explain to me why is that not two

free throws? And he told me that because my body and my feet was facing in a different direction. But if you'd already gathered with two hands, you already had it with two hands. I already had it. Yeah, it was just, it was. Yeah, well, I don't know, I don't know.

Well, yeah, like, this is where I'm going with this, is that I've never, I've felt like the, just in general, the refereing and the rules have never been more clouded. Yeah. I'll give me some more examples that I see. I feel like you can mall the ball handler above the three-point line or above the free-thal line.

Like, you can. and really get into people, hack away, bump, all that stuff. I don't mind it. Like, it just, but let's call it what it is. But then when you get below the foul line, it gets ticky-tackey. That's one thing that bothers me. We can go back through these, but here's one that I've noticed that is just, remember we used to talk about dislodging?

Yeah. Now you can literally run your shoulder through a guy's chest, back him up, five, seven feet, lay the ball in or shoot, and it's fair game. I don't have a problem with it, but like when and why did that become a possibility in our game? It wasn't discussed. It just kind of happened, and you just have to figure it out. Like, yeah, we went from like one week to us prepper for games, and then, you know, like two weeks later was like, okay, now we can do this. It's like, but when did it change?

Right. Right, right. How are we allowed to do this now? How are we allowed to just like wrap guys up, just like completely bad? Bear hugged them. Right. I thought there was, it went from freedom of movement

to no freedom of movement. To, so it's like, I'm not, I don't get it. Yeah. Yeah, so we have the travels

to the gather stuff, you know, the freedom of movement stuff, the physical, like the, the off arm, not just the shoulder, but the off arm,

I think has gotten a little out of hand. Moving screens are ridiculous. I get the ghost games stuff and I get like, you know, we always had guys trying to get away with stuff, but now it's become so blurry where guys, one, a lot of hand screening where you just grab a guy and push him. And then the other one is these kind of like, am I screaming? Am I screening?

Am I not? But I'm definitely going to just get in your way for one, two, three extra seconds. It's just, I feel like it needs to be cleaned up. Yeah, I think it needs to be cleaned up. And what's our point of view on this as a game? Because I think that we all want offense. Offense is great. But what makes offense great is partly good defense.

That's when we show what really elite offense is. So some of these things like moving screens, you know. But that's the thing. Again, it gets to consistency. Above the three point line, you get into people, you know, you can really, really take liberties. Then you get inside. And now the offensive player can shoulder you off,

can use the chicken wing. Screening becomes really difficult. So I'm really curious as to where we're going with this. And there's like these different through points. The rip-through stuff, we clean that up, the dislodge stuff. But then it comes back around and now it's, but these things are kind of back on the table. So, yeah, I just, as a fan now,

and as someone who played, it is so curious how far it swung. Right. And where is going to end? And where is it going to end? Or how we're going to... Is the string too long? Is it not?

Like, I'm at a point for me, obviously, I'm at a point in my career where it's like, like, bro, don't even like waste your voice. Like, I'll be saying... I mean... Just sitting back and watching. That was a point last night that happened that I wanted to argue so bad. And I wasn't even planned. I was in street clothes.

I wanted to argue so bad. Because I knew I was exact. I was so right. I was so right. And unfortunately, like a player got like hurt last night. So we had a fast break. And Rui went up for a dunk. Stefan Castle blocked this shot.

We got the rebound, laid it up. Stefan Castle was on the ground underneath the basket. And they're looking at his player. But what happened was one of the San Antonio players took the ball out. And Wimby came and he was looking at. at his teammate and he grabbed the ball from his teammate while he was still out of bounce. Yeah, it's a violation.

I said, that's our ball. Like, that's a violation. Like, that's our... The refs from the other end come flying down and said that their coach called a timeout beforehand. I said, there's no fucking way.

And they awarded them a timeout. As a player, sometimes that can be that stuff can be frustrating. And by the way, and then Wimby, after Stefan Castle got up and everything, they awarded him the ball. Wimby went down and scored, his 40th point of the court. As a player, that's like, what are we doing? Because the problem is it happened another time and you don't get the same.

It's like, oh, no, you touch the ball in a bounce. Yeah, it's the consistency. That's all, that's all. And it's, I get it, like, it's a hard job. The game's changing fast. Yeah, for sure. But it's almost like we need a point of view on it, I think. You know, we need a point of view on like how do we want our league to be played.

Because things are different. Coaches are teaching different strategies. I think we're seeing guys do stuff in the game and then coaches are saying, we can use that. Like the first, like I think Hallie talks about Buddy introducing all the different type of ghost screens and stuff. And them taking that. I think that happens around the league. Fowling a lot, like getting into people, what you can do.

Teams are starting to put more. and more pressure on the ball higher where they're letting now all of a sudden we're letting him get away with it you couldn't do that before um you know like these these bumps at the rim are crazy to me we're no dislodge here's one when someone's sliding their feet with the defender and with the offensive player and the offensive players got a line to the basket and the defender's trying to stay with them the offensive players now yeah he's maybe both feet aren't set but they're going off their line to create contact the player's still in a league guarding position theoretically, but they're calling blocks on the defender that the guy went

off his line to create contact, Nagamah. So there's all these things where the game's just starting to change and change and change and change. I think it's, if we don't have a point of view on it, it gets out of hand. Yeah, it gets out of hand, yeah. Right? And then you get frustrated because the call seemed changed. Because the guys are out there like really competing. Guys are competing for something. Guys are competing to win obviously every night. And obviously, like you said, the reps have a tough job. We're not ever going to discredit, you know, the the is it a four is it adding a fourth ref I don't know is it I don't know I don't know is it is it having because usually you know you got the three refs and then one go to the back just

a case of an injury or is it is it one rep that stays at the at the table is he if is he is he not is he watching and and kind of has a certain cadence where he can hit a button I guess I don't know and be like oh well the guys you guys you guys might need to review that and look at that you know I don't know. I think it's just a point. Yeah. I think it's a point of view. And I think we have to decide what we're doing on some of these things.

Like the other one that bugs me is like when a guy's driving and a defender tries to get back in contact. Like they used to, we used to talk about marginal. And I think we definitely, we call it marginal out top. Like out about three point line, we're in the ball so hard now. And then, but inside a guy tries to close that gap with a driver. And a marginal, just trying to be in contact, not him. This is a foul, but this, the offensive players are smart. As soon as they get close, you know, they create, we've got to let that stuff go.

Like, you got to allow guys to guard to get back in touch with their man, get back in contact, even have some physicality. But I feel like now it's like we're playing both sides. We talked about this on like some of our earlier, earlier episodes where we do this all year. And then in the postseason, they let the shit go. And it takes you two to three, four playoff games, if you're lucky to adjust. It's like, what are we doing? Like, I get it.

I get it. I get the postseason should be more like, okay, but like, you know, you go September through April, mid-April of this is how it's going to be called. And then boom, it completely changes. It's like, what are we? Different sport. Yeah, it's a different sport, man. Yeah. So.

Yeah. Anyways, that's my, that's my PSA. Yeah, I'm with you. Let's get a point of view on some of these plays. That is Steve Nash PSA, and I'll prove this message. If you listen to this show, you're probably not satisfied with hot takes and highlight reels. You want to understand the game at a deeper level, the schemes, the adjustments, the strategic decisions that separate good from great. That's exactly the kind of thinking Claude is built for.

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Let's go to 2026 plays. All right, we'll just run through some of these, but like, Spurs, a little action here. I mean, that's a carry. Yeah, that's a hesy where the ball, it's for a step or two is under his hand. There's no question in two, three years ago even. Maybe five years ago, there's no way. Oh, yeah, yeah. And sometimes some of these could just be bad calls.

They missed it. But it feels like it's happening a lot. Yeah. Guy Kamara goes for the pump fake, but goes fly by. Fly by. And CJ seeks him off the line. And we're giving those. I mean, that's happening.

And then leans towards. Yeah. I mean, that's, I feel like you get punished if you leave your feet now. But if you don't leave your feet. And make contact. You know, even if I'm coming forward, if I come forward and I'm able to get out of the way. But you're leaning towards me with the chicken on. I don't think it should be a fight.

I agree. Off arm push. I mean, shit, everybody was following on that play. Right? Yeah. There was never allowed in the past. No. Anytime this was extended, if it wasn't shoulder,

anytime you're off arm, either if you're right or lefty, anytime that deal like this, and it's automatic. That is dislodging the defender. Right. You're allowed a certain amount of contact with the shoulder. shoulder a little bit of here but if this was this full extension it's automatic automatic

all right we got shay here hmm so i actually don't have a huge problem with this one this is shay on is that ad yeah i think that's more shoulder more shoulder and release sometimes she can get sometimes his his arm can get fully extended but i felt i felt like that was more that one right there was more and then I'm trying to get away. Yeah. So it's interesting though, and this is maybe where the referees are in a tough position because I, this one, I'm not, like I could see it being called. I also am okay with it not being called.

So Shea does create contact here and leverage, but I feel like that's marginal. Like as far as the rules. Yeah, I feel like as far as when we talk about the push off, the opposite hand, I feel like that was more. I feel like that was a margin play. And I feel like Shea's a master at how much leverage he can create without... He's so damn good at that. Without a foul. All right.

This is a Scotty Barnes clip. We got the Rafters Philly. Hmm. So I guess we're thinking he leaned in a little too much on this drive. Yeah. I mean, I don't see that being a foul. But... But that's just weird.

what happens is because Scotty Barnes may go make that move and lean in don't get the call. Because Scotty Barnes, 6-9, 6-10, don't get that call. But then my good friend Tyrese does the same thing.

And they give him that call. Because he may be smaller in stature. I get a lot of from refs, that was a marginal play. I said, what's marginal to you? may not be marginal to me if it's affecting my shot, but a foul is a foul.

For guys grabbing my arms and I'm just not flailed in whatever the case may be. You're at a disadvantage. Yeah, so if that's how the game is going to be called, so we don't know the context of what might have happened in the first four minutes. Maybe, you know, Joe L&B maybe got that call. You know, maybe Tyrese got that call.

And then when I go to the hole and do the same thing, they say play on. Like, that's the consistency that as players that you want from officiating. how are we going to call it tonight? You know, and it can change from game to game. Every crew is different, but if we set the tone to say, this is how we're going to play, you know it from the first two possessions,

okay, this is how they're going to let us play. They're going to let us hold and grab. They're going to let us be physical or not. And smart players set the terms, right? Like, you know, Luca's great at it. Sanchez-in-law, he's getting hands here at me tonight, one of these and get your hands off me the rest of the night. And so, but that's what makes great players great, is they're able to set the terms on how we're going to play this game.

All right, let's take a look at this one. This is Cade versus Charlotte. Yeah, I mean. So this is Jalen Duran and the kid James. That's a lot of force. That is a lot of force. I mean, he sold it well, but that's a lot of force. I don't know that that would have ever been a doubt.

defensive foul than any other era. Yeah. Right? Because he's in a legal guarding position trying to stand his ground. And I mean, I give some understanding Jalen Duren's a big dude.

But to me, this is a little excessive. But we're letting these go. All right, shoulder here. I think this might be J.B. See the other angle here. From the first angle, it didn't look Didn't look like much. That looked like a foul.

That looked like an A to B right there. No, no file. I think defensively that was a foul because J.B definitely went from A to B. But on the drive, on the drive, though, it was no foul. Yeah, it's like the defender's an illegal guarding. So to me, like, do they want every defender

at every point of contact to have both feet set? That's not the way to, you know, like you can still be in front and have the right to that lane to the basket, but both feet aren't set, you're in motion. So I think that's where players are taking advantage. The guy's feet might not be set, but he's still moving to cover that line to the basket.

And then the offensive player just changes lines and we're allowing them to just create unnecessary contact, go through the defender. So I hate that call, to be honest. Yeah, he went out of the line there. Did you see that? Yep. Now, if he moved that, that's officer file.

Yeah, you can't. Like if you're going and the guy's coming and then you kind of just swerve in his lane and but swerving his lane to do that into his body. Yeah, that's that's offensive file. That's office a file. If you're trying to, you know, I get it that he's trying to make sure that he gets to, you know, to, you know, Chet's bodies to try to alleviate from him, you know, not get from, get from, get the block. And you just swerve into his lane, body, okay, didn't get blood to fully extent. That's an offensive file.

Yeah. As a little kid, my dad would take me to my grandparents home in North London where he grew up. I used to love walking from the house through the park to watch a Tottenham match. Soccer wasn't just a game in our family. It was everything. When you're there, you can really feel that passion and it's contagious. You'd open a window and feel the excitement of match day and hear songs echoing through the stadium. Those trips shaped everything for me.

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With premium travel benefits and award-winning service, there's nothing like American Express Platinum. Terms apply. Learn more at Americanexpress.com slash with platinum. Okay, fan questions. Love this part. I love fan questions, man. A lot of people out here want to know about the game, man.

All right. Here's an interesting one. Adi Pradeep from Instagram said, how do you read the second level of defense once I get past my initial defender? So this is interesting because I'm not sure either one of us would have an answer because we've learned that so early.

Maybe instinctively. We're not worried about our guy. We're more looking. Where's the space behind that guy that I want to get to? Yeah. We never had a problem with the guy that was in front of us. It was always the second and third line of defense. So I think obviously that has a lot to do with development,

having the reps and the confidence to be able to, one, beat your own defender. So I'm guessing that Adi Pradeep has that ability, or they wouldn't be asking the second part. So I think, you know, kind of knowing, you know, obviously studying the teams, studying what they're doing, you know, where's the help coming from? Do they help with the low man?

Do they come out of the corners? Do they, you know, are there a team that like to hit, you know, once you get past, you know, meaning like double team, once you get past the initial defender. So I think just, you know,

understanding what the defense, what they're, what they've been doing over the course of the season, what they do in their games, that will help, you know. And then also, more importantly, kind of just, kind of just read and react too.

Don't forget to just go out there and just read and react and, you know, figure it out on the fly. I think that has a lot to do with it too. Like we talk about trial and error. Yeah, make mistakes. Yeah, make mistakes and that's okay. I would say then maybe the one thing I could add is just start gaining awareness of where is the space on the floor? Where is the space? Like if you get the ball and you know you can be your defender but there's two people standing right behind them,

that's probably the time to swing it and get to the other side. So just having an awareness of where the space is on the floor. because you want to as a team attack that space. Now, sometimes I might try to take the ball into a crowd to draw it even more to get it out. So your shooters have a more open shot or a much bigger two-on-one situation. But I think it all comes from recognizing

where the space is and how you want to manipulate that space. Yeah, love that. Let me like, oh, oh, Johnny on IG, how do I manage my emotions after missing a game winner or a cut shot? Well, one thing about the emotions is going to happen. Right. You know, we've both been there.

You know, we've both missed game. Winters, missed shots. It happens. And that's just part of the game. You know, no one thing, the greatest people of all time to play the game of basketball have never shot 1,000% or 100% however you want to put the numbers. Same thing. Yeah, yeah, same thing.

But as far as managing, I think it's about, understanding if that opportunity comes again, be ready for that moment again and not shining away from it. And it doesn't matter how many you miss. Like you have the confidence if you put the work into it. You know, you envision yourself being in those moments,

you know, your teammates, you know, trust you to make, you know, the right play or to even take the shot, no matter when lose or draw and you're confident in that. I think, you know, understanding like, you know, the game is about, you know, going out and playing and loving it and having fun.

And if you make the game winner, you're super excited. If you miss the game winner, you're super excited for the next time. You know, so just being, just staying present, understanding that, you know, like you said, you're not going to make every shot, you know, and we all thrive to want to make every shot and be there and make every game winner and make every clutch shot. But it doesn't happen that way, but just being ready for that moment once that happens again. For sure. You said it.

It's an emotional game. Yeah. Everyone's emotional, but so let's look at this situation. How do I stop from being so emotional? When you take that last shot, you want to be as calm as possible, right? So if you're super emotional by missing, I'm guessing you are super emotional taking the shot, right? Whereas if you were calm taking it, you live with make or miss because you're in the moment. You're in the process.

So I think it's really important for young people, but anyone to be as calm and as confident as possible at the moment. Here's what I would say to back you up on that being ready to shoot the next one is if you are nervous shooting that shot the odds of it going well Aren't great right so you have to try to flip it from like nervous to like I'm going for it I am trying to make the shot not trying like hoping yeah and if you go for it not only do you have a better chance of making it You're gonna grow in those moments right I think you grow in those moments if you have fear and your tension and you're nervous in those moments you're not growing in those moments, right? So sometimes you have to go through that period and recognize what's the point of being nervous right now? I need to be bold. I need to go for it. And that allows you to grow and be more effective in the moment. Thanks for watching, mind the game.

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