Mind the Game - Basketball Evolution

Episode Date: April 3, 2024

Welcome to Episode 3 of Mind the Game with LeBron James and JJ Redick. In this episode, JJ and LeBron talk about adapting and evolving with the game of basketball. Each of them discuss lessons they learned in high school that helped shape the rest of their careers. Next the guys talk about college basketball and whether LeBron ever wishes he could've played in the NCAA tournament / March Madness. Then the guys move on to talk about LeBron's first NBA basket and the way the game has changed from way back then to today. JJ goes on to discuss the impact of the 2009 Orlando Magic and why Stan Van Gundy's offense was revolutionary at the time. The rest of the conversation centers around LeBron's time with Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh and the Miami Heat. They talk through how the team recovered from the 2011 NBA Finals against the Dallas Mavericks and Coach Erik Spoelstra's innovation that led to NBA championships and how Chris Bosh had to sacrifice for the good of the team. Then we take a beat to appreciate how Chris Bosh influenced many of today's big men like Bam Adebayo, Nikola Jokic and Chet Holmgren. This is such a fun episode so let's get to it. Subscribe to Mind the Game with LeBron James (The Los Angeles Lakers) and JJ Redick today for more NBA insight, analysis, highlights and more.#nba #lebronjames #mindthegameSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Follow the best idea yet on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts. I mean, I don't know if it was intentional. I had so many people, like wine people, text me. Oh, yeah, me too. Or DM, maybe like, you couldn't quite make out. I knew you were drinking the one Rousseau. What was the other one? Someone caught me last episode one.

They said, he's not going to waste a drop with that wine. When I poured you some, I said, oh, I didn't know you another glass. I poured you something, and we're talking to me a conversation. I wiped the bottle and, like, look my finger. They were like, oh, yeah, he's not wasting a drop with that. Welcome back to Mind the Game with LeBron James and me, J.J. Reddick. This is episode three. We're going to be talking a little bit about the evolution of spacing in the NBA during both LeBron's career and my career. we're also going to be talking about the evolution of certain positions, certain cuts.

It's going to be a great episode. No, we have not upgraded to animation. No, we don't have a whiteboard yet. The whiteboard was sent to Los Angeles. I'm recording this in Brooklyn. So you're stuck with the paper guys. A few key concepts. I just want to review before we get to our conversation.

Just as a review from episode one, floppy. is a catch and shoot play. It's very simple. On either side of the lane, there's two bigs. The point card has the ball up top, and the two-wing players are underneath the basket. The shooter can come out either side, make a play. In the context of this conversation,

it's funny because LeBron James never runs floppy. So in this episode we talk about corner splits. Think the Sacramento Kings with Chris Weber and Lottie Divac as the passers, Mike Bibby, Pasia, Bobby Jackson, Doug Christie, those guys as the shooters and cutters. A more recent example was Rick Adelman when he was in Minnesota in the mid-2010s, Kevin Love, Kevin Martin, Ricky Rubio. That's what these guys ran a lot of. Corner splits is very simple. By the way, by the way, I apologize. A number of people have pointed out that the defensive players are supposed to be the exes and the offensive players are supposed to be the O's.

Here's the thing. I've only had one coaching job in my life, and that is coaching eight, nine, and ten-year-olds. Now, when you coach eight, nine, and ten-year-olds, it can be very confusing to have X's and O's on the court. So I decided to draw X's because they all thought the O looked like a basketball, and that confused them. So for me, I draw my office of players as X's. all right corner split there is a wing player in a corner the ball handler brings it up a side in this

case we're going to bring it up the left side and the big i.e. Ladi Divac, Kevin Love, Chris Weber is somewhere in the vicinity of the elbow or high post area. You can occupy the weak side in a number of ways have a guy in the corner, have a guy high, you can have a guy in the corner or have a guy in the dunker spot. Because I don't love the dunker spot, we'll put the other guy in the high quadrant. Point guard brings it up. He would hit the big Chris Weber, Vladi DiBos, at the high post. He then goes into split action. As a reminder, split action is just when two offensive players go to screen for each other off the ball. And again, they can cut, they can curl, they can set a back screen or a rip screen. A rip screen is the same thing as a back screen. Oftentimes, again,

the meaning is in the word. If I was to say, I'm going to go set a back screen for you, where would I screen your defender? I would screen his back. That's the same thing as a rip screen. So in this case, this is Pesia. This is Mike Bibi. Mike Bibi can go set a downscreen for Pesia. Pesia has a number of options here. He can curl to the basket. He can back cut. He can chase the basketball. He can come for a dribble handoff. In this case, let's say Mike Bibi sets a great screen page. It just comes off. Lottie hits him. He hits a wide open jump. That's corner splits. All right, spread pick and roll. All that means is there's nobody in the dunker spot. There's nobody in the paint. All five players are spread across the perimeter. Depending on where

the pick and roll is located, let's say it is up top with the ball handler here. You have a guy in each corner. This is a right-handed player, so we want to go to the single side, so we'll put this guy in the high quadrant, and then the screener would then come set a pick and roll. Again, everyone is spread out. Nobody is inside the paint. The opposite of this, of course, would be, let's say this guy will eliminate him and put him in the dunker spot. That is no longer a spread pick and roll. That's just a pick and roll. Five out, delay. Again, And the meaning is in the word five out, five outside of the three-point line, five out. This is, I think, one of the biggest revolutions evolution in today's NBA.

No longer see two people run to either block, as you did for a long time in the NBA. You still see it some in college. You certainly see it some in high school. five out is how most NBA teams play. It's not necessarily a play as it is a set and a concept. So for the purposes of this, let's say it's off a miss. Everybody's sort of run. You get two guys in the corner, one guy on the wing,

Ball Hamler bringing it up, and then the trail guy who got the rebound or who took it out is running down the center of the floor. Within that, you can get to a number of options. You can play a step-up pick and roll here. You can run a stagger screen away, a stagger screen. Again, it's in the word. Two players, a stagger.

One screen, two screen. You can run away action. Away action, again, meaning is in the word. You go away from the basketball. You screen away like this. Boom. That's DeAndre Jordan screening for me. That's Brooke Lopez screening for Kyle Corver.

That's just away action. a lot of teams will hit the five men though at the top and then they will get into split action delay is just another name for five out again because i've got a white piece of paper not a white board i can't go over every single option out of this but this is the essential idea of five out or delay. Okay, the short roll, this is one of the most important concepts in today's MBA. It's a big part of this conversation as well. Let's just go back to that spread, pick, and roll, okay? So within that spread, pick, and roll, the five man is going to set a screen for the ball handler to get to his right hand. Okay. And let's say the help side is here, here, strong side.

Strong side, ball side is there, the big is up in the pick and roll, and the guards and the, and the defender of the point guard is right there. As this guy comes off, they put two on the ball. The short roll is essentially the area between, call it the restricted area and the three point line. So at any point in time, if you get the ball to the five man in this area, that forces a reaction from the defense. Now, this guy almost always will pull over as the low man. He's the lowest guy on the floor. He's the low man. That's his responsibility to protect the rim.

This guy, as we discuss, sometimes will drop here, and he will essentially have responsibility on these two guys. once the ball is in this area, this is the short roll area, anywhere, again, between restricted and the three-point line. The short-roll area is where today's big man makes place. A lot of guys are not shooting necessarily right here. They're not short-rolling to shoot this shot. They are short-rolling to either shoot a floater, Hala Yokich, to make this cut, this path to this cutter, or to spray out to this man for a three. That's the short roll. Another concept we talk about is the slot cut.

Just to be clear here, the slot is another word for the high quadrant. It's another word for the wing. In a spread pick and roll, the slot is considered the guy on the wing. You have the corner, the corner, and the two people in pick and roll. So this would be the slot right here.

The slot cut is simply a timed cut let's say the ball handler turns the corner the big rolls the defense reacts it's a time cut out of this slot to get the ball in this area paint the rim whatever go dunk the basketball now you can also let's say you're posting the ball here you can have a slot cut out of the post a slot cut is just a cut from this slot area thank you guys again for watching for listening LeBron and I have really enjoyed recording these episodes, talking basketball, and I hope you guys

have learned something and enjoyed it as well. Appreciate you. This is episode three of Mind the Game, Evolution. Cheers. Very much enjoyed the first episode. Absolutely. I'm going to ask you a question. And we can edit this out if need be. This is just, I just want to

get the conversation started this way that's great because we were just talking about young guys and i felt towards the end of my career once i had figured the league out and i again figured league up meaning like i had a job you know what i mean not like i'm an all-star but once i figured the league out i felt like i could tell within two or three days of being around a young guy whether he was going to be all right the league yeah do you have that too Do you sense that? Yeah, absolutely. What are the markers for you where you say this guy's going to be good?

Coaches and veterans being able to get on them. And there's no snickering. There's no back talk. There's no all that. It's just almost they almost look like, just keep on coming with it because I want to see how much I can I want to see how much

just keep on, keep on because I'm exorbing everything. That's when you know like, oh, he's going to be in his leave for a long time. One of the things that I always noticed was, and I wasn't perfect at this when I was like a rookie,

especially. There's an element of fear, meaning once we step on the court I'm not scared but there's an element of fear like I need to be in the training room on time yeah I need to do all the lifts yeah that my strength coach is telling me to do if my PD guy player development guy my PD guys telling me to be on the court at 10 o'clock for an 11 o'clock practice that guy's there at 955 ready to go for sure it's it's like the small stuff yeah it's a small stuff it is a small stuff uh we are recording this on

Thursday, opening day of the NCAA tournament, official opening day. I do not count the play in. Yeah, I don't I don't count to play in. Not because I'm old. He's about been into playing a couple times now as the NBA player, but I do not count the player. I don't get, it's like, it's not official because you're still playing into the tournament.

Yeah. And your high school coach just got a big win about an hour ago. Yes, he did. What did you learn from him? Oh, my goodness. I think the number one thing that I learned from him right away is how to not only approach the game, but also how to think the game,

and also play at a level that was a lot harder and determined than the AAU tournaments that I was playing in beforehand. I got to coach Dan Brott, my ninth grade year. So my first year at high school, first of all, back to the fear thing. When you go from middle school to high school, you're already terrified of what lies ahead. You don't know what to expect. And obviously, you know, in Ohio, you have six, seventh, and eighth, the middle school. So you have that feeling coming out of elementary going to the middle school from the 56th grade.

You have that fear of older people in the schools and how is it going to affect you and things of that nature. And then you go to the high school and you see, you know, kids with beards and, you know, teachers, they just look so much more massive, you know. And I'm going to a coach that is a former college basketball coach. And you hear the stories. I mean, you know firsthand probably, or maybe you don't because you're great. So maybe I had to have to do everything. But, you know, I heard, you know, the stories of like, you know, five in. am wake-ups to go run the mile or, you know.

This was your high school coach? This is my high school coach. This is my high school coach. This is my high school coach. You hear the stories of like, you know, one mistake, everyone's going to run until the coach gets tired. And in my head, I'm like, how in the hell does a coach get tired if he's not running? So you're like terrified of all of this.

You know, so the one thing back to your question that I learned from Coach D, is that we're going to practice perfection every single day. Every single day, he always should tell us the practices are going to be way freaking harder than the games. And you don't understand that every time the coach said, get on the line. That's a universal word right there, or a universal term right there, get on the line. You know that's the last thing you want to hear

as a basketball player to get on the line. But he was super strict. He was super demanding. He would get in your face, call you out of your name. There were kids whose parents used to come to practice that he would call them out of their names right in front of their parents. My sophomore year, my freshman year,

we went to state championship. We go 27 and 0. I was MVP of the tournament. Obviously Maverick was our captain, my freshman year. my sophomore year, the first practice, I was, came in as projected number one player in the state of Ohio. I was projected to be an All-American as a sophomore, projected to be Mr. Basketball as a sophomore, which had never been done in Ohio High School history.

And the first practice we had our sophomore year at the winning in the state championship, I did absolutely nothing wrong coming out of football. He kicked me out of practice. he kicked me out of practice I had no idea why the fuck he kicked me out of practice and I think he was just set the tone for the season

yeah like wherever the fuck or wherever you think you are yeah I've heard all of this stuff about how great you are and things like nope I'm a humble your ass right now he kicked me out of practice

and the last thing he said to me when he kicked him out of practice first day of practice he said best sophomore in the country my ass I love that I love that setting the tone right away

best sophomore in the country my ass and kicking me out of practice I actually think I had a healthy level of respect so I played varsity as a freshman but actually my school middle school was 6 through 9th grade so I didn't even go to high school yet

so it was 6 through 9th grade we didn't have space they have space in the high school so the year after I left they built a second high school they split into they moved down a division that sort of thing right Right. So I'm coming off eighth grade. I start JV. I grew seven inches that year.

I learned how to shoot without my left thumb. Yeah. Started shooting a real jump shot. I go to AAU Nationals in Florida. I average like 35 a game. So I'm coming into freshman year with a decent level of conference. And I knew my high school coach was tough because my JV coach was so tough. Yep.

But I was brash and copy. You know the kid you saw at Duke early on? I was that kid. I was that kid. And we were playing preseason. We were just like doing pickup. So we would do these stations where you had like 30 seconds to a minute on. So 30 seconds to a minute on wall sits.

30 seconds to a minute on, D slides with bands. 30 seconds to a minute on jumping jacks with a weight, like all this stuff. And we'd do that for like 30 to 45 minutes. And then we'd play pickup. So there was this senior name Kevin Conley. and he he was good but I also played his position

and he hadn't started the year before so he was like very much wanted the starting position so we were playing pickup and truthfully Kevin I was busting your ass I was busting his ass and he said and I started yapping off and he said to me I'm going to tell you right now shut the fuck up

and he gave me the look mind you I'm my size but 155 pounds So I was like, oh, he's going to kick my ass. And I didn't say anything. We checked the ball up as soon as somebody passed it. He just popped me in the face, right? My jaw still pops this day.

And pretty much from that day on, I had a healthy level of fear for high school. A healthy level of fear. Do you think there's anything for you? I know for me, like, I play for Coach K. I play for a great high school clerk. I played for Boo Williams and A.U. We talked about our coaching and how important that was. this last time. Do you think for you there was anything transferable from what you learned in

high school to what you had to do in the NBA, especially early on? From a coach's perspective or just on the court? On the court, being a player on the court. No. Totally different game? It was a totally different game, but the nuance and the fundamentals and you know the things that was being that was being taught to me as an 18 year old I kind of had already knew a lot of that shit I mean it's weird to kind of say because you feel like when you get to the NBA you're going to learn so much more which I eventually did you know and I think that just came with like we always talk about experience the best teacher in life is experience you know but when I when I got to the NBA the biggest

adjustment I had was literally just going from like, oh shit, I don't have to go to class every day, you know, I'm going from 27 games season to now 82. So like, oh shit, like, after 27 games in the NBA, you know, around about 32 games, I'm like, I'm exhausted. You know, so now, like, what can I do to get the energy? back going. But as far as when I stepped out on the floor, there wasn't too much of an adjustment. I felt like I was physical enough. I felt like I had the size. I had the speed, obviously. I had the athleticism, obviously. You know, you have the, you know, some of the vet tricks and things of that nature, how to get away with certain things that I had to kind of learn and whatever

the case may be. But, and then I was throwing around with many positions in my rookie year, too. Like, at one point, I was, I was a two-guard. At one point, you know, my first game in Sacramento, I was coming off floppies. Oh, we'll get to that a bit. Yeah, you know, we'll get to that in a bit. Yeah, and then it makes you know, we do make a change or whatever. Now I'm the point guard.

It's like, you know, which is one natural position for me, but also not a natural position. Like, I love to pass the ball. I love to bring the ball up. but I've never really started at the point of guard position. So it's still very different, different. But I was able to just kind of seamlessly kind of just move right on in. Figure it out on the fly a little bit. Yeah, figured out on the fly.

With the tournament going on right now, have you, I rewatched episode one. You talking about not going up to Ohio State for parties, down to Ohio State for parties. I was like, all right. I wonder if you ever thought to himself this time of year. Man, I wonder what it's like to play in March Madness. Absolutely.

You have. Yeah, 21 years later. You're still thinking about it every year. Yeah. This is the only time, though. I was thinking about all the stuff you've experienced basketball, but you haven't experienced that. This is the only time.

March Madness right now is the only time I think about playing college basketball for 21 straight years. I don't watch much college basketball. this year I watched a ton of it, obviously, because Brodney's in college, you know, so I was there watching the game. But it's just, it doesn't translate for me. It frustrates me. My high blood pressure picks up. My black man, a high blood pressure is just not good for us.

So I try to stay away from it, but I love basketball. So I find myself watching it anyways. But I literally, before we came in here, like you said, Duquesne won their game. Big shout out to the Dukes, coach D, my best friend, Drew Joyce. right after the game, I was watching Illinois versus Moorhead State scouting because that's what they play next. And you're going to give them notes? Already did.

I already sent notes already. I got to watch like a quarter, three-fourths of the game before we started. And I've already sent notes. I'm a junkie, man. Yeah. I'm well aware of that. Well aware.

I want to talk about spacing today. do you you mentioned coming off floppy in that Sacramento game your very first game yeah do you do specifically remember your two first first two baskets of your career I remember my first one okay my first basket was coming off a floppy action and I faded to the corner by our bench and received a ball over the top and hit a 17 18 foot first of all it's hilarious that you were running floppy it's hilarious on that one you came off and took the one dribbled baseline

and C-Booze after he set the screen kind of backed up into the pocket around the elbows. There was like space, a little space. On the second one, you came off the other side and curled and Ricky Davis hit you at the elbow. And I had this screenshot on my phone. And it's Z on the left block. C-Booz on the right block.

Darius Miles spotting up from about 17 feet. at the right wingish, but not really spaced. Not really space. And then Ricky Davis is just standing there at the top of the key. It's like literally eight or nine people. Yeah, eight or nine people all just right there. Right there. And then you drove back and hit a little fall away going left.

Yeah. When did you start to feel like the spacing was changing in the NBA? Um, you know, that's a good question. I'm trying to think. I think the spacing started to change in the NBA. I think I think Stan Van Gundy had a lot to do with it you know, not that I think about it

and I'm thinking because I'm in the, I was in the East and obviously, you know, they had a lot of spacing, you know, in Sacramento in the early 2000s, but it wasn't a lot of spacing. Maybe they just had some shooting. Obviously, Mike Bib could shoot the ball, you know, you know, Pasia was shooting the ball.

They ran corner splits. Yeah, they run corner splits. They could, you know, you know, Vladi, you know, could play the elbow, could play the corner, could hit the, you know, the three at times, you know, see where time to time with space a little bit, but he was more in the post.

You know, Bobby Jackson will fly off, obviously, for shots. But, you know, I don't, I believe Stan with, with Dwight, you know, kind of in that 07, 08, 09 kind of range, they started to change it a lot, you know. I hadn't seen that much space because I played against the Detroit Pistons and obviously you have, you know, you have Rip on this floppy down action, you know, flying off the floppy down or the two chests or whatever case may be. But with Stan, I think he saw what he had in Dwight and he started to build that team around him to like, I want nothing but space, you know, and we saw that. We saw it. We saw it when with Charlotte Lewis got on that team.

We saw it what he did Tirkaloo got there, you know, and then added Jemir, you know, and added just a bunch of space you as well, you as well. It took a while. Yeah, you know, it took a while to use your superpowers. I'll tell you that. It took a while for you to use your superpowers or then to use your superpowers for the better of the team. But, you know, even where Ray Allen was on Boston, you know, at 08, it still wasn't a lot of space out there. KG was posting up. Rhonda was not a shooter.

Rhonda was not a shooter. Tony Allen wasn't a shooter. Right. You know, PP was a three-level score. But they were playing two bigs a lot of times. Biggs a lot. You know, if it was KG and Perk or KG and Big Baby or whatever the case may be, you know, Detroit was still playing two bigs even when being with the Chicago.

You know, they brought in, they brought in Chris Weber, you know, so they were playing two bigs as well. You know, I feel like, you know, Miami was still playing two bigs. They was playing Shaq when he was there along with Edonis and Zoe when Zoh came back. I feel like to Orlando, man. Orlando kind of was the first. I want to say the first because they're obviously. Yeah, I think the precursor was definitely, in my opinion, the sons, right?

The sons were the first with Dantone and Steve Nash, Marion at the four, Amari at the five. But Marion wasn't a spacer either, but he was so athletic and had so much speed that he created space. Yes. You know. We're going to get to this. They're going to get to this in the same. But it's funny because with the magic, I'm not sure that that was the intention. Now, it ultimately may have played out that way.

Right, right, right. But Tony Bette heard his shoulder guarding Dwight in preseason. And we tried Turk at the four in the preseason games. And he refused. He's like, fuck this. I'm not going. I'm not going to for us. Yeah, yeah.

So, Richard is a good teammate and a true professional, unlike Turk. He's like, he's like, fuck it, I'll do it, right? And then all of a sudden, it created an advantage. And we didn't have playing you guys in 2009 in Eastern Conference. records finals and by the way i played nine minutes nine minutes that series second quarter second quarter of game two but i got to watch some awesome basketball and it's weird i've i've rewatched some of that series and it is so apparent that no matter what you did no matter what y'all did we just had an advantage.

Yeah. The whole season, we geared our team up to play Boston. Everything was geared to play Boston. Everything. We never practiced anything besides two bigs, a point guard, a small and a small forward, and a shooting guard. And then, fuck you guys win. And it's like, we've geared up all, you know, we had Big Z.

And Svajal, myself, Delante, and Mo Williams. I mean, you guys are out there with Dwight, Rashard, Hidu, Jemir, Pietris, Peatrice, Courtney Lee. You guys are out there with like, what the league is to now. The league to now is like long wings, shooters, and a guy that I can screen, roll, lob, and then you add on even more with Dwight because he could occasionally post up a small. I think, too, you know what, looking back on that team that I think was so important

because I talk about this all the time now, Jemir Nelson could shoot threes out of pick and roll. Yeah. It's an important thing. It is a very important thing for many reasons. First of all, it unlocks everyone's offensive game. If you can shoot threes off the dribble, it unlocks your game, right? Absolutely. But also just for the offense.

a sudden, you're forced to make a decision in a Jamir Nelson, Dwight Howard, pick, and roll. He do Turkaloo. Yeah. If you decide to go under him because you don't want him getting to his right hand, you have to make a decision now. He's going to shoot a three. He's going to shoot it. So we would run that angle pick and roll. Yep. We'd have a shooter in the left corner. Yep. Turk going to his right hand. Dwight rolling and two shooters space. And two shooters. Where is the hell coming from? And you can't, you can't switch it because Dwight's going to bury you, hit you with 19 elbows, and he doesn't care about getting one or two fouls off the elbows, but he's going to dunk you in the rim.

This is like super duper man, Dwight at the time. I rewatch Game 5 the other day. I've never watched a series, by the way. You haven't. I'm very curious to get your thoughts in what you remember about that series specifically, because this is what I remember, and I was like, I'm going to go watch. What was the series? 4-2.

4-2. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. 4-2, yeah. Oh, yeah, I didn't talk to the media after game 6. I was pissed. I was pissed.

I took a shower and got show on the bus. I remember that now. Yeah, I was pissed. Game 5, I was watching the fourth quarter. Literally your offense, you didn't matchup hunt. For the first part of the fourth quarter, you had two bigs in the dunker spot, either dunker spot. You had Mo or Delante. At one point, it was Wally Zurbiac.

spotting up, and you would post up McKell Petrus at like 19 feet and then try to go one-on-one. It was really interesting to watch that versus spread pick and roll with shooting and spacing. It was really interesting. And by the way, how to fucking see functioning with this. This is not, this is not like a knock on Mike Brown at all. Like, I'm not saying that. It was just what we were doing was so different at the time. Yeah.

And it wasn't like the next year, everybody's like, oh, we're going to try to emulate what Orlando did. 2011, I'll never forget this game. We played against the Minnesota Timberwolves in our new arena. And that's when we had Ryan Anderson and Richard. And we would get to our spread pick and roll. And it didn't matter where Ryan or Richard was. They would tag Dwight with Kevin Love, the four man. No matter where he was.

So if he's the high guy, He's taking them all the way to the room. On the double side, they're tagging him at the rim. And Ryan and Richard are sitting there teeing them up. It's bizarre. It's super bizarre. I'm not going to gash you up. I'm not going to gas you up.

I'm going to say one thing, though, real quick. You average 38, 8, and 8 in that series with that offense and that spacing. With no space. With no space. It was wild. It is wild. To think back on, like I said, I have not watched this series. since it happened.

And to think that a damn their average 48 and 8 in a series with no space is and I'm obviously if I caught a good heater I could make a couple threes in a row

whatever the case may be but that wasn't my thing that wasn't my thing I lived in the paint in the post. You didn't have your signature move then? I didn't have my signature moved in no.

I was not I was not a disciplined jump shooter at that point in time. Interesting. What do you mean? that. If I was I would shoot fadeaways for no reason.

I would be off balance for no reason. I would make shots more difficult for no reason. And I envy guys that can go straight up and down or could like shoot the same shot every time. And it was just discipline. I was so athletic that I could wheel myself. There's like sometimes there's like old clips of me that I watch or come across my timeline on social.

Yeah. Now, wait, hold on. Bro, it's okay. I see the clip sometimes. No, no, no. I don't just go online and look up LeBron James highlights. We all watch her own highlights on YouTube. LeBron.

I'm telling you. You've never gone on YouTube. Yes, I have. Of course I have. I say from time to time they come through. I, of course I have. Oh, by the way, the number one reason you do that is when you hit like a little slump or whatever. Oh, yes.

Where's my game at? YouTube is the perfect place to find your game. March 2018 at Charlotte, 27 points. Type it in. Let me see my game. We've all done it. Yeah, we've all been there for sure. We've all done it.

When you guys got together in Miami, the conversations with Chris about his role, but also the decision to sort of move him, to the five, which, by the way, was not right away. No, it wasn't. Like, was there pushback on that at the time? Do you remember, like, those conversations, because, you know, I know UD was there, Joel Anthony was there.

Yep. Yeah, my first year, Big Z was there and Eric Dampere. And Eric Dampere. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm going to tell you when it all changed. Obviously, my first year there, you know, played great basketball. I got all the way to the finals, losing the finals. I play like shit.

Spow is the reason why we were a better team and our team was more assembled properly. That summer, he went to Oregon and hung out with Chip Kelly. Oh, interesting. When we lost to Dallas, he went to Oregon

and hung out with Chip Kelly and learned to spread offense. and tried to figure out if he could translate that to basketball. And don't know the super conversations that him and Chip had, but I know when he came back to us, he knew in order for us to reach our potential, one, I had to be fucking ten times better than I was in that previous June finals,

but Chris Bosch had to go to the five. And CB being who he is, there was no pushback. there was no pushback. He knew in order for us to reach our potential that CB would have to go to the five and we had to spread, he had to start working on his corner three faithfully every day after practice.

Corner three, every day after practice. We're going to post you up. We're going to get you your elbow catches. The offense is going to run through you at times. But in order to bring, you know, the Tyson Chandler's out of the paint, in order to bring the Roy Hibberts out of the paint, In order to bring Tim Duncan out of the paint at times,

in order to bring Kevin Garnett out of the paint, you've got to hit these corner threes. You've got to at least be a threat. And Spow knew it. He had that vision. He went and learned, he said, the way I coached in that finals versus Dallas, unacceptable. I told myself the way I played, unacceptable.

and he came back with vengeance and I was all I was locked to fucking in from start to finish but it was spoh I got a question about the boss bash spacing but because you just said that was that the low point for you in your career oh for sure 2011 the lowest yeah yeah the lowest yeah the lowest yeah what is the boss spacing what did that sort of unlock I'm curious like what were the actions what was the the two-man game yeah what were the reeds the cutting slock The slot cuts. The slot cuts. The slot cuts.

It unlocked the slot cuts. It unlocked exactly what myself and D-Wade thrive on. Dribble penetration slot-cutting. Pick-a-roll happens. You tag. Slot-cutting. It unlocked all that. And we all know how great D-Wade is on the baseline.

It's hard to cut behind the defense when X-5 is standing there the whole time because, you know, the offensive of five is there. you know so you know you hit me on a pocket pass now you know i get the pocket pass from chalmers or from norris cole you know and now bosh's in a strong corner are you going to leave him or not if you do he's going to tag you and if not when i roll now you got x3 or x2 tagging on me on the roll and nine times out of 10 that that that guy that's playing the elbow i suppose the x to the corner he's exing out to the three point line and d wave slashing right behind him it just it unlocked a so much for our offense.

And it gave myself and D-Wade in transition. We had this thing called the Mack Truck Lane. So from, basically from the block to the block. So, say for instance, we sit on the free throw line. Yeah. You got one block on one side, one block on their side. I can picture a basketball court, yeah. We're doing it for the viewers.

I'm not questioning JJ's expertise. No, don't you say. First day of training camp, we had that whole thing taped off. The bigs were not allowed to run in between the Mac truck. from the first day of training camp all the way to game one prohibited you're not around to you got anything and if i'm bringing the ball up and the big is behind me he can't cross the court he has to run wide behind this is all this is all spo is like he's he's that damn good some twitter sleuth will correct me on this and i will

Accept it if I'm wrong. But in my mind, when I think of five out or delay, I think of the Miami Heat with Chris Bosch. As maybe it wasn't the originator. But the first time I'm like, oh, this is different and this is happening was the Miami Heat with Chris Bosch. Yeah. And it changed everything.

It changed everything. Changed the whole team. Change the whole team. Then we added Ray. Shane. Added Shane, added Mike Miller, we added the spacing. And CB could pass, he could rebound and push. It wasn't many fives at that time that was rebounding and pushing the break.

You see it all the time now. Right. You see Bam. Bam does it. Bam does it all the time. Yoke, of course. Yeah, MVP at the league. Yokey does it.

It's like CB was pushing the break. Okay, if he ain't have nothing early in trans, boom, right to a DHO. Second side. Swing, swing. like he was a smart he was just smart but i mean obviously when you move from one position where you're so dominant you think a cb in toronto where he mainly played the four almost probably 95% of the time played before and average 25 and 10 or 12 the ball exclusively went through him in the mid post every single time on either block really yeah but it's it's remarkable that he changed

that yeah we changed that the slot cut can you explain the timing the play how it works we actually because it's by the way it is a it's now part of every team's vernacular and every team runs it now it becomes programmed into everybody's reads and pick and roll Yeah, and it's now, it used to not be a live cut. I go back and watch college basketball, and there's so many fluff cuts or cuts that don't do anything. It's like, why are you making a cut towards the basket, and you're not even looking at the damn ball?

You know, so the slot cut, I started to make the slot cut when Mike Brown took over for us in Cleveland we actually used to have a play when we got Moe Williams Moe Williams was one fast quick motherfucker off pick and rolls and another guy that could shoot the three off the pick and roll

we were run angle Moe Williams would have the ball left slot we would have a shooter in a strong corner going same side as him and either Verrajao or Z come set to step up.

You know what? Take that back. I'm sorry. No strong side shooter. There's a strong side shooter in the weak corner. Only Mo's job was to race to big. Race to big. Get around the big.

Get around to the baseline. And at the same time, as soon as I would see Mo race to big to the baseline, Anderson, Verrajao or Z a coms set a ripset a rip screen for me, blind. The guy that's guarding me

and the corner man couldn't leave because it was a corner shooter and I was slot cut at the same time. It's easy clip. We could find that clip. And Moe would drop it to me. And I would either dunk it home or finish it or whatever case may be. We actually put that in one of our, that was one of our ATOs.

And then when I got to Miami, I started to just see a lot of guys peeking. a lot of guys with Dway had a ball obviously he attracted a lot of eyes he's a driver whatever case may be instead of me standing out and shooting threes which at times I wasn't always comfortable with shooting threes I would see guys peeking and as soon as I would see my guy turn his head I was slot cut this is part of the reason it's really hard to guard spread pick and roll. Yep.

And we'll put the clips up as well. But if the X's here are the offensive player, right? Correct. And you're running this angle pick and roll. Correct. And let's say the big is in a drop. Mm-hmm. Okay?

And this is the guard. This is the guard, right? Yep. So if this guard turns the corner here. Yep. right on the big Damien Lillard does this better than anybody especially going left

especially going left right this guy has to make some sort of decision yep he's coming to 2-9 this guy has to get into an exposition and who the fuck is guarding this guy nobody right nobody so that's the position I'm in a lot

the slot cut the slot yeah the other one is this which Golden State when I think of this cut I think of Golden State which is essentially

same formation here's the defense right all right so you put two on the ball on Steph Curry and Draymond Green which is the worst thing you can do right right

this guy's going to have to be the low man so Draymond rolls Steph hits him right here this guy drops what's going to happen right here, LeBron, as Draymond Green takes a dribble into the paint? It's a lob. It's a lob every single time.

It's a lob every single time. And you can't, you literally can't put two on the ball. You can't. See, everyone thinks that putting two on the ball takes Steph out of the play. The problem that you don't understand is that you're now unlocking Draymond's

superpower offensively. Draymond super power offensively is the four on three game.

You put two on the ball. Now, Draymond has, it's four on three and I'm going to have

you can dial in the past. Now Wigs and Kumanga, they're going to be in that opposite corner and if you

help up too early, there's going to be a lob and that is demoralizing and the number one thing it's so much momentum a half court lob so much momentum when we used to that's the worst court I've ever seen but I'm going to do the same formation real quick the same set so like when we used to teach or learn yeah how to guard spread pick and roll right we would you would do this drill I'm sure you did this drill so

you know here's the defense yep right Yep. Here's the defense. And as this guy comes off, the low man pulls over. Here's the basket. The low man pulls over. This guy drops. And the drill was always this.

This guy, the ball handler, would skip it. A big corner. And you would literally make an X. Yeah. But nobody does that anymore. Yeah. They hit the short roll. Yeah.

And the short rollers now in today's NBA. Like if you're a big coming into the NBA right now, what's your player development program look like. It's literally playing out of the short roll. Yeah, playing out of the short roll. If you're Jared Allen, Jared Allen for the last five years, what is he doing? Short role. Short role.

Yeah, I mean, especially with Darry's Garland and Donald and Mitchell. They're going to attract so much, you have to be able to play out of the short role. And when you play out of short role, it's not for you to score. Yes, you have the ability to score, but you have to read the game. You have to read the game. Think about Chris Bosch. And it makes me think of Chet Holmgren a little bit. You guys probably run different stuff, but in a way, what makes OKC so good is their ability to drive the basketball and then kick and then drive the basketball and then kick.

And they did this last year. Yep. This is how they played last year when they were 42 and 40. And then all of a sudden, Chet comes in and it unlocks everything. In the same way. I'm not comparing Chet to Chris Bosch as like... But to unlock the most... But to unlock how you maximize the offense,

you need Chet on that team. For sure. No question about it. He changed the dynamic of everything. You know, they have one set that they run off of all free throws where Chet takes the ball out. They send two guys to the other end. Both of them sit in the corner and takes the ball out.

And now Shea has got, he has it on the right wing or the left wing or whatever case may be. And normally the X5 job is to load to the ball and stop Shea from driving the 45, driving the slot. That's your job. Load. Get to the body, load. Okay, see now, because there's another guy back there. At the same time that the big is trying to load on Shea, there's a guard that's flaring Chet to the opposite slot. Do you know how hard that is?

They're flaring a seven-footer to the opposite slot. Right. I mean, there's ways to guard it. I'm not going to say it right now because we may see them in the playoffs. I'm not going to give that coach there opportunity to prepare for it, but that's very difficult when you have a guy like Shea, going to get to the line eight to 12 times a game

or J. Dub who's now turned into a fucking gray's hat on. He's a star. He's a star. He's a star. I told him too. I said, man, I said, boy, you're out here killing. He's like, man, I had a hell of a summer. Because he came to me and said, you know my younger brother played against Blondie last night? Because his younger brother goes to Colorado.

Cody. Yeah, Cody. And I was like, I said, that's crazy, man. Yeah. I said, man. I said, man. Hey, keep going, bro. You're killing this shit. He was like, no, I had a hell of a something. He's one of those guys. He's right now, not many holes in his game. He's pretty damn good at nearly everything.

He's one of those guys. He's 22 now, I believe. That's it. In four or five years, you're like, oh, no, no, that guy has no holes in his game. Zero. Yeah. Zero. Before we talk more spacing, I want to touch on one last thing.

with the heat and that is I feel like in the NBA the phrase super team or the term super team is is a little bit of a misnomer because you can have

you can have a big three right you still need four or five ancillary role players star in their role and then compliment the stars. No question about it. And it doesn't work. It doesn't work unless you have those guys.

And you've lived it multiple times. I've lived it. I've lived it. I mean, obviously my first year in Miami, yeah, we had a big three. And everyone said it's a super team, super team net. But we had to build our team around, all minimum guys, which was still okay,

but we didn't fill out the complimented guys enough. Yeah, we had Rio, we had Eudanis, you know, but we didn't have enough as far as enough complimentary guys to actually make it all work. And we still made it to the finals. We still made it to the finals, and we still probably should have won the finals, but I still give credit. Listen, it is what it is.

You win and you lose, and we lost. There's no... Dallas was fucking good and they hit it, they hit a stride at the right time. Dirk was unbelievable. But my second year, we was able to grab some complimentary players and role players that really just, I'm talking about super, superstars in their roles. And it goes back to my first year in Cleveland. My first year in Cleveland, yes, we got Kevin out of a trade.

We lost in the finals. We wasn't really whole to unlock everything. He wasn't whole enough to unlock everything. Then we was able to add Channing Frye, add Richard Jefferson to that second team, add those guys. And then the experience that we had from the year previously, you know, JR got better and shump, you know. And obviously we were healthier, you know. Kyrie goes down in the finals and, you know, Busted Knee Cap and Kev, obviously separated shoulder in year one. But you're absolutely right.

The complimentary guys are ultimately the ones. that will help you win the championship for sure. Yeah. And classified as a real super team. Right. So I think, I think, you know, the goal of this show is to really just like talk about basketball, right? I love it.

And it's great. And I love it. I love it. And I could do it all day. Yeah, me too. You know, we both live online. Let's be honest. We live online.

We're well aware of all the discourse. I have to participate in the discourse. And I said this, I want to participate so much more. I said this the other day. I was like, the discourse has a place, right? It provides a level of entertainment. Yeah. And I get it.

And I feel like sometimes I get annoyed at a couple keywords that get involved in discourse. And we're not going to do this every episode. We're not going to do this. But I just on this point we're making about how a team works. There's the word important. Who's the more important player for the Boston Celtics? Who's the most important player for the Boston Celtics? I also get annoyed with the word pressure, right?

Those are the two words that drive me fucking crazy. Pressure in particular. Because if you've been around, you know that most guys in the NBA put an insane amount of pressure on themselves. That's why we all have fucking anxiety. We all put so much pressure on ourselves. And the important word bugs me because the best player is always the most important player. It's very hard to win in the NBA if the player who has the most outsized impact isn't at his best.

And no offense, 2011 is a great example of that. I wasn't at my best. You weren't at your best. And you lost. If I played anything like I did in the Easter Conference Finals, we win. But you could have been at your best, and the role players could have been bad. So, like, for me, this is why I get annoyed, because I'm like, yeah, like when I play on the Clippers, CP and Blake, they were the most important guys in our team. But DeAndre and I had a role.

Jamal had a role. Matt Barnes had a role. Luke and Bob Mutte, the next two years, had a role. Like, we all had an important role. And guess what? We put a lot of pressure on ourselves to actually play well and actually contribute to winning. And I feel like we live in this fucking 2K world

where we're like putting a roster together. And it's like, how can we put as many good players that don't even make sense together? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it drives me crazy. So what's wrong with this team? Well, it's very simple. Basketball is a very organic thing.

And the players and their skills have to complement each other. And Chris Bosch is a great example of that. The sacrifice to figure out how can my skills, and maybe I have to develop some of those, mentioned the three-point shooting, how can I figure out how to complement it's going to make me better. It's going to make LeBron better. It's going to make D. Wade better. And it's going to make our team better. And that's basketball.

And that's basketball. But that also comes from a, to go back to episode one, basketball IQ as well. Him having the basketball IQ and the knowledge of saying, yeah, I could still be in Toronto averaging 25 and 12, but I didn't come here for that shit. I came here to win championships and we fucking lost in year one what can I do to compliment my teammates and what can I do to broaden my game out

to where we don't lose in year two fucking talk about growth mindset and everyone's talking about you know Chris Bosch was this before that no one ever asked Chris Bosch no one ever asked Chris Bosch about how he feels Everyone just speaks for him

No one asked him how he feels He knew he was making a sacrifice We all knew we was making sacrifices But we knew what the fuck we all came together for And that was to win championships And that's what we did No, for sure Swing, swing, swing

Okay, drive the baseline Okay, boom, I'm trapping the box I'm tapping the box Reverse the feet, throw it back out Okay, now I'm back. Okay, when we drive from the slot, slot man, you come, drop in the slot, guy drops down, he peels.

Crack the big, go back out. Now we back out. But it's like simple things like, simple things like. You want to be a assistant coach. One. One time. Hey, guys. Thanks for listening.

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