Mind the Game - Breaking Down the 2024 NBA Playoffs (So Far) | LeBron James & JJ Redick

Episode Date: May 8, 2024

Welcome to Episode 7 on Mind the Game with LeBron James and JJ Redick. This episode was recorded last week, shortly after LeBron and the Los Angeles Lakers first round series against Nikola Jokic, Jamal Murray, Aaron Gordon, and the Denver Nuggets. LeBron explains why he thinks he, Anthony Davis and the Lakers lost the series and what simply made the Nuggets the better team. He also opens up about how he's personally feeling heading into the offseason. Then, they get into some of the observations and takeaways from other series' in the playoffs including; actions that make Jamal Murray, Jalen Brunson (New York Knicks), and Tyrese Maxey (Philadelphia 76ers) the most dangerous. They also share what they think gives Anthony Edwards, Karl-Anthony Towns, Rudy Gobert, and the Minnesota Timberwolves an advantage in the playoffs, what it's like facing elite defenders like Luguentz Dort (Lu Dort) (Oklahoma City Thunder) for multiple games throughout a series, and much more. Subscribe to Mind the Game with LeBron James and JJ Redick today for more NBA insight, analysis, highlights and more.#nba #lebronjames #mindthegameSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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three, four, two productions. This is episode seven, breaking down the 2024 NBA playoffs so far. A lot is discussed in this episode. This was our first remote episode. We were not in person in Los Angeles like the previous six episodes, but luckily it still plays really well. We recorded this on Wednesday of last week. We want to say that again. We recorded this on Wednesday. of last week. A lot we get into. Playoff reflections from LeBron James. We discuss a number of topics about the Minnesota-Denver series, and it's amazing how relevant all the things we discussed are, particularly after what has transpired in the first two games. Just a couple actions that we discuss. One is called Spanoulis action. It is named after one of the best Greek players of

all time, Vasilis Spanulis. Of course, Spanulis helped defeat the U.S. U.S. men's senior national team in the 2006 Feeba World Championships in the semifinals. Spunulus action is very simple. There is a big that will catch the ball right here. There's a screener somewhere in the middle of the paint. A lot of times it will be initiated with a cut down underneath the basket. There's a rub screen. A rub screen is simply an offball screen that leads to a dribble handoff.

We talked about this action a lot with Jamal Murray getting to his left hand. In the context of the Denver Nuggets, this is Yolkits with the ball. This is Jamal Murray underneath the basket. He's cut through. This is Aaron Gordon. Aaron Gordon will set that rub screen, which is, again, just an off ball screen that leads a lot of times to a dribble handoff. And Jamal Murray now coming to his left hand. Aaron Gordon would relocate to the dunker spot.

Jamal Murray now. can get to his left-hand drive, and Yokic right here in that short-roll pocket area. Spanulus action. And as a reminder, the dunker spot is this area by these hash marks on the baseline. This is where Aaron Gordon hangs out all the time. There's also a ton of discussion on Jalen Brunson and his playoff performance so far, plus how good Tyrese Maxi was in that first round series. Another action we talk about is a double drag screen.

A double-drag screen is simply a high double pick and roll. A lot of times this first screener is a guard. He will set a screen on Tyrese Maxi. Then the big will set a screen on Tyrese Maxi. And Maxi, with this squiggly line, can get downhill to his right hand. There's a ton of variations off double drag. We talked about this in episode six. The Clay Thompson double-drag shallow, Lori Markinen, double-drag shallow.

That was with an empty side. But for the most part, double drag, two guys space to the corner, and then a double high pick and roll. One of the things we discussed at the end is the Dorcher Chamber. We talk about what it's like in a playoff series getting hounded by elite defenders like Lou Dort, like Jaden McDaniels, and LeBron, of course, has faced that throughout his career. no better guy to hear from on that. As always, thank you for listening to Mind the Game. This is a little bit of a longer episode, lots of stuff to get into. If you haven't already, please hit that subscribe button.

This is Mind the Game, episode seven. First time doing this where we aren't in person. It's all good. all good. I feel like in episode five, we talked a little bit about the playoffs. I want to revisit some of that conversation, but I also want to talk about what has happened already and what we think might happen in this year's playoffs. Before we do that, though, I'm just curious about your emotions right now. I was thinking about it today, and I was looking back at like every single year, the common emotions when the season ended, and some unique emotions depending

on which team I was on. You've obviously won at championships. I don't know what those emotions are like, but what can you just describe what the end of the season is like? Well, look, can we cheers first before you? Oh, yeah, you're right. My bad. Give a cheer. Cheers. Cheers. Shit. Where am I emotionally right now?

I don't know, to be honest. I have no idea why I am emotionally right now. You know, obviously, you know, going against the defending champions in the first round, it's always going to be a difficult challenge. We knew that coming into it. Well, fuck, we had so many opportunities, man, you know, and to lose in five, two of them being game winners by, you know, Jamal, you know, his greatness.

But we had so many opportunities. Obviously being up, you know, 20, you know, in game two in their building and losing that game and having so many opportunities in other games, you just feel like shit if one play here, one play there, you know, could have made a whole lot of difference. But, you know, when you're playing against a team like that, you have zero room for error. And I believe we made too many errors in some of the games. Like, I mean, I've seen some crazy-ass stat about, like, the minutes that we were leaving. beating in the series compared to losing in the series. But we both know that's a little bit of fools gold because most playoff games come down to one or two,

three or four possessions, you know, and if you're not able to capitalize off those possessions or make plays during those possessions, then that's how you lose games. So, you know, emotionally I feel like we was like right there, obviously in every game to be able to steal a game. But also at the same time, you know, we weren't. And that's why we lost the series.

And shit hurts, obviously, you know, being a competitor, I am. Competitor to you are, you've been in multiple series in your career as well. But fuck, man, I feel like, you know, a couple plays here, a couple plays there. You know, we could have won the series. But the better team won, the better team won, for sure. Give credit what credit is due. I think that's fair. I think that's fair.

I want to go back to the singular play thing in a second. But I was thinking about the come down of the season. And I was having a conversation with someone who's worked in the NBA a long time a couple weeks ago. We were talking about the stress levels of different positions within the NBA, right? Front office, coaching, players, all that. And I feel like as a player, you're always on edge during the season. Always. There's no, like, comfort level.

The intensity, even just, like, going to dinner with friends, you're still, like, wired. Thinking about the game, yeah. Yeah. And then I think when the season ends, that was always the weirdest transition. There's certainly sometimes anger. There's certainly sadness. Like, those emotions are there. But it's like, I know this sounds fucking weird, man.

But sometimes when the season went ahead and I would be like, okay, I need to figure out. how I can reenter society because I've had I've had to be on for the last seven eight months seven eight nine months yep for sure yep you're absolutely right man and uh you know it's getting getting readjusted to what reality actually really is you know is always difficult after the season because like you said you've been you've been in such a you know bubble, you know, for seven, eight months, whatever the case, however long the season was, that getting reacclimated to actuality, society is always the transition. Do you approach these type of off-season differently with USA basketball coming up?

Yeah, I mean, obviously, you know, it's going to be a little bit different, you know, for me, probably over like the last four to five years, I've kind of, after the season, try to get my body at least two months of life. Like no basketball. You know, I'm still doing, you know, like the yoga's and the Pilates and, you know, walking around still being active and stretching and all that type of shit. But as far as I've tried to get my body like two months, just I don't want to be on the basketball court at all. Actually, like, training. But it's challenging now because it's May 1st and in two months, training camp actually starts in Vegas.

And I don't want to go into training camp doing not nothing on the court for two months. So I'm going to kind of switch it up a little bit. I'm not going to be, you know, going crazy with my training, whatever the case may be. I'll probably take the month of May off, give my body an opportunity to rest. And then probably around the first or second week of June, I'll start to kind of get back into the game a little bit, you know, start getting some routine shots up, getting a fill for the ball. So now I got the Fibba ball I got to work with too. So that's a little different.

But, you know, just get my body reacclimated to just some of the movements that you just, you never do in a regular day-to-day basis as far as when you're doing, you know, workout. So, yeah, I'll switch it up a little bit. I would always do the same thing, six to eight weeks, depending on, you know,

when the season, obviously, the years, the years I made the finals, conference finals, those two years, my break from basketball was a little bit shorter, but I kept my body going. The thing that I realized, though, when I got older, is like, I can't, I can't turn it off, because once I turn it off, once I turn the faucet off, the water's never coming back.

It's always. So I became even more diligent in those, like, in the basketball breaks about, like, my lifts, my Pilates, my conditioning, all the mobility stuff I was working on, you know, physical therapy, whatever any work on. Like, if I actually do take time off and do nothing, like, I'm going to, I'm just, going to be done. Like, that's, that's the reality. There were some singular plays in that Denver series, for sure. And look, we have, we have committed, I think, committed. And maybe we haven't been perfect, but we have committed to avoiding or at least trying to the discourse. I am, of course,

on the other side of this working in media, so I see everything, right? And a lot of, it's because it's you guys honestly a lot of it is blaming someone blaming this player for this player this player for this performance i get it man like it's it's part of the job i understand that i think what you said is important and this is not an excuse for the lakers it's not what you said is important Denver is the better team as an analyst i would have told you that yesterday i would have told you that four months ago hey lebron i think denver is a better team than you guys. Like, I would just be honest with you.

You have played them two years in a row. We have spent some time on Yokic. He's certainly part of the puzzle, a big part of the puzzle. What makes the Denver Nuggets puzzle so hard to solve? I think, you know, obviously it starts with Joker, obviously. But I don't think Jamal Murray gets enough credit. You know, he's not a person. part of the, you know, all

NBA conversation discourse. He's not a part of the I'm an all star every year discourse, you know, all that shit. And I think, you know, people get caught up and just thinking it's just Joker, Joker, Joker, how do you stop Joker?

Man, when it comes to nut crunching time, yes, Joker going to make a lot of plays. But it's that motherfucker, Jamal Murray, that will send you home and I'm a victim of it, you know? And he's just makes place. It's a sense of calmness when the ball is in his hand, and they're working at either that side, clear side, one, five pick and roll, or that mid pick and roll, or that

angle pick and roll where he's either handling and Joker setting it, or he's playing a touch game to Joker where he has the, he could come off full speed. He has the ability to go back door. He's so shifty, the stepbacks, going right. You know, it's not, you can't even, you can't and dictate which way, you know, you know how you can see, okay, this guy shoots better going this way, this guy shoots off the dribble going this way. Well, he hit two game winners on us in the series. One was a step back going right, other one was a step back going left. So what the fuck do you do? And yes, we could have played the last one a little bit better defensively, but that's a different story. And then to add on to those two guys, Michael Porter Jr. is

a fucking laser. I don't know if it's just because he sees the Lakers or the gold or whatever. But I feel like Versus, that motherfucker don't miss. He does not miss. I called the one game

where he literally did not miss. In St. Yeah, in L.A. He literally did not miss. He literally did not miss. And I was like, man, you can't even get, you know how they say,

close the gap, get to his check. He doesn't even see you. He doesn't even see you. doesn't see you. And then those other two guys, man, you got KCP out there, a guy who's just a winner who makes winning plays. He could have zero points. He can have 15 points and he's going to make, excuse me, make an impact on a game. And the same way, Aaron Gordon. You know, Aaron Gordon, if he has two points or if he has 20 points, his impact doesn't change. He's going

to rebound. He's going to stay. He knows his role. He's going to be in a dunker. He's going to slash from the baseline. You know, he's on guard. I just think they're super well, well, well organized as a group. And then obviously, you know, their coaching staff is pretty damn good on knowing, you know, with their strengths. And they go to their strengths. They avoid their weakness.

You know, they avoid their weakness. It's not many. See, the difference between great teams, good teams, and bad teams, is to how many possessions can you go throughout the course of the game that meant absolutely nothing? meaning a great team won't go through too many games where they had terrible possessions

where it was like, what the fuck are we doing? Where a great team would never throw the ball into the post to a guy and we're going to expect him to score if that's not what the fuck you do. A great team would never run a pick and roll with a player if he's not a pick and roll player. That's where the great,

the good and the bad lies. Denver, they know what their strengths are. And it's not nobody on that floor that does something that they shouldn't be doing. And I think that's what makes... I think that's what ultimately makes a great team. Doc Rivers always talks about basketball's game of mistakes, right? And it is.

Like, there's not a... I get killed for saying this, but I'll stand by this. I don't think there's ever been a perfect player. I don't think there's ever been a perfect team. I don't know of a team that did not be. turned the ball over, did not miss a shot, did not lose a game. Like, basketball is a game of mistakes. What you just said is, I think, really important, and it gets ratcheted up even more in

the playoffs, and that is having a purpose to every possession. That is having an intent to what we're trying to do on this possession. I think that's an important point. I'm glad you brought up Michael Porter, Jr. Because he has really, to me, embraced, like, the role that he has. And I've talked to him about it. And some of it is the guy has had insane injuries, the back surgeries, playing with drop foot, all that stuff.

He's just grateful to play now. But I think he is the hardest player that is not like a primary score, right? He's the hardest player to close out to. The reason I say that, he's 6'10, he elevates on his jump shot. they always maintain elite spacing so if you make a mistake in your helper you make a mistake on the Jamal Murray Nicole Yokic coverage in a pick and roll

and you have to react to that you have to overhelp you get beat by Jamal Murray ball starts swinging you can't close to him he just is going to shoot over the top and if for some reason you are there soon enough

he's got an elite at driving closeouts he really has whether he's getting to his midi or he's getting all the way to the basket. Like he's not a primary guy, but he's a star in his role. And as we see all the time in the playoffs, those guys become even more important in a series.

Because the whole point of the players, LeBron, you know the whole point of the playoffs is like, how do we make every single player uncomfortable? And it starts with the star players. How do we make the star players uncomfortable? Yep. I mean, listen, Jamal hit two game winners on us. But you look at his numbers, we did a hell of a job on Jamal as far as making it tough on him.

He shot maybe high 30s, maybe. I don't know the statistics, but maybe high 30s from the field in our series. And obviously, Joker's going to do what he did. Michael Porter is the one who kicked our ass. You know, he kicked our ass. And you remember we was talking about, like, having luck to win a championship? Denver is a case. for that.

There's no way coming out of high school before the back surgery that Michael Porter would even be in Denver. These guys, it was a projected number one pick in a draft, you know, and because of the back, you know, teams get alarmed and whatever the case may be because of that, and he slid in a draft, and he slid right to the perfect position and perfect spot. They waited on them, didn't rush him, whatever the case may be. Then he got in and then he was still a little injured, like you said, with the drop foot or whatever case may be.

But now he's in a perfect situation. He's in a perfect situation around two guys that you have to keep not only your eyes on him if you're guarding as a primary defender, but then another set of eyes. So there's going to be somebody on that floor that you're going to forget about. And, you know, he makes you pay.

Like you said, 16. He shoots at the top of his jump shot. His elbow is right in your face too, so you can't close the gap because if you hit his elbow and there's three free throws. And he's a big time player. I'm going to draw while I'm talking here.

But we've talked about the singular plays and the luck. I want to talk about fouling up three, whether or not to foul up three because we've seen this happen already, multiple times,

sometimes multiple times within a game, sometimes multiple times within a series. I don't know how every coach you've had has approached whether or not to foul up three at the end of a game on a defensive possession. But just kind of give me your overall thoughts on it. And I really do want to sort of break this down because I think it's going to come up again.

It's going to come up again. Yeah. And what are all the circumstances that's going on at this point? okay so you're up three is it is it under 24 seconds left in the game is it do we have a time out what are some of the cases um i was watching the game last night obviously new york up three um you know Tyrese had just hit a four point play um they come back down Josh Hart goes one for two from the free throw line put him up three Philly's coming down and I personally I would have filed I would have Well, I would have filed before Tyrese even cross half court. Okay. I just do it. And it has to be, and for, it has to be on the downward dribble.

If you're going to file, you have to file on the downward dribble. You know, and it's hard. Sometimes a lot of guys are afraid to do it too. A lot of coaches are afraid to tell their team to file one of three because one, either one, they haven't worked on it, or two, it is, you know, with our rules and things, it gets tricky sometimes, and you send a guy to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the line, you know, because you tried to file them, um, in a case, but I, I am filing. I am filing. I am filing. I am filing. It's just, guys are too great, man. Guys are too

great. I, I, I'm in agreeance with you. I'm fouling up three every single time. Every single time. Every single time. Look, I think, though, to your point, about fouling Maxi on that particular play in the back court, I don't have it off the top of my head when he caught the ball. Right. But let's say when he's in the back court, he's somewhere between 10 and 12 seconds on the clock. A lot of coaches that I had that taught us to foul up three.

it was always, you know, you don't consider doing it until it's six to eight seconds. Like six to eight seconds, exactly. Right, which I don't really know why we did that cut off. We can get into that. So the foul on the maxi play would have been early. The other two factors that you always have to consider are, do you have good free throw shooters?

Do you have a good guy? Like a guy you trust, you have multiple guys you can trust. Like I'll play it on the Clippers, man. Like our end game offensive closing lineup was me, Jamal Crawford, and Chris Paul. There was one year we all shot 90%. Yeah, exactly. So we should foul up three. You talked about the downward dribble.

This is what I wanted to drop because this relates directly to the play that happened, the first Middleton three in game three of MD and Milwaukee. So Middleton had it out of bounds, right? Brooke had it posting up Miles Turner right here, right? So Brooke's trying to get open, and he kind of shoves Miles Turner and he steps out. Now, this was a lob pass. So this is an important thing that I think was taught well to me, and I think is important in all of this.

Half court, I mean, full court and half quarter are two different things. As that ball's in the air, so Brooks right there. Like, I was taught to run through the ball. Run through the ball. Meaning just foul before the guy gets it. The ball's been released. The ball's been released. Yep.

The ball's been released. So in that particular play, and they obviously were not fouling up three. He then gets the dribble handoff up here. Miles Turner hedges. Hedges. And forces like a dribble around, right, away from the basket. so he had like two or three opportunities to foul to file clearly Rick Carlisle's telling him not to foul right and Middleton makes a crazy shot all of this is to say and you said it already these guys are too

fucking good Middleton's shot was ridiculous maxi pulled up from 37 feet or 38 whatever it was 38 feet inside the logo like you can't afford to allow guys to get a clean shot anymore if you go back to game two as well. I think it was game two. The Dante DiVincenzo, you know, Maxi getting fouled and losing the ball and all that said. But DeVinchozo, it's a three.

They end up getting it back. They were up three again, and they elected not to foul. I think there were six seconds on the clock when they took it out. So clearly Tibbs, whether he made the adjustment or not, like certain coaches still believe you don't foul,

and I think there's the camp that you foul every time. Yeah, and you have to live with it. It's almost like if you're a blackjack, player, if you're going to hit every time on a verse of two on 12, then do it every time. If you have a, if there's a two showing and you got 12, if you hit all the time, just hit all the time. Don't be sitting at the table with me.

And you say, well, sometimes I hit it. Sometimes I don't. Well, no, I can't, I can't sit at this table with you. So I agree. We have coaches out there that say, we're going to guard. I trust my defense. We're going to guard. we're going to guard we're going to guard

I'm just not on that side I'm on the side of if we have three let's file let's file up three you know you got to trust the whole you know obviously like you said personnel is key you got to have a trusted guy that you trust the inbound the ball after they make free throws

you know if you have a timeout you should be good try to get the ball into your best free throw shooter if not call a timeout advance it if you don't have a timeout get it to your best free throw shooter but these are things you work on in practice hey if we're up three no timeouts we're going to file if they make two

you take the ball out expect the trap on the first one expect the trap because they're going to try to trap you and get the ball, boom, boob, you do all that stuff so like it's all about preparation man it's about preparation and like I said I'm with you JJ when it comes to being

up three I want to file I don't like I don't like seeing that ball up in the air while we're watching the ball like oh shit this is going in this shit is going in the feeling of victory was

so fucking close now we got to go to overtime the timeout thing is also important I think in all of this where if you're if a team's out of timeouts yeah number one if it's under 10 seconds it should be automatically but they're out of timeouts let's say with 20 seconds I think there's more wiggle room

to fouling earlier in this case the maxi play singular plays fowling up three brings up a memory brawn brings up a memory 2009 we're down to one we're up 12 at halftime against the lakers in game four we play our ass off have some turnover issues have some free throw issues we're still up five with under a minute to go and the ball to tie the series some things happen we miss some free throws Kobe makes a ridiculous Pau, who cuts down the lane and dunks it. 87, 84, we go back

to the free throw line. Anyways, it ends up, they get the ball back with about 10 seconds to go in front of their bench. For some reason, I don't know why we doubled Kobe. He swung it to Trevor Reza, who threw it across the court to Derek Fisher. And he just lined

up a three. He just lined up. He just lined it up. He just lined it up. Do you remember, I was trying to figure out today on basketball reference, and I couldn't find it. Do you remember what year it was. We were playing, I think it was in Cleveland, and Stan had just sort of implemented, we're going to foul up three. And I think it was that year. It might have been the year before. And we're playing against you guys. And you catch the ball right near half

court, like not shooting range. And there's still time on the clock. And you read it right. And we fouled and you went in your shooting motion, you got the three free throws. And I remember that. I'm trying to figure out, like, did that have something? Because we didn't, we didn't say as far as I can remember, and clearly, by your defensive approach,

we didn't say we're going to foul, right? Fuck, man. I'm not saying we would have won the series, by the way. I'm not saying that. I mean, but listen, 2-2 is a hell of a lot better than 3-1. Listen, I know. Speaking of Jamal Murray, Brunson, Maxie, these guys,

Yeah, man. One thing that I love about all three of them, so they are considered point guards now, right? They are considered point guards. So many times we'll just get off the ball, cut down, and then get, let's say this is Jamal, because he does like to come to his left hand, they'll just get this little rub screen into a DHO, right? That action to me is so, like, practicing that action. doing it in games all season long, stuff like that, I think becomes even more valuable in the playoffs because you can't set the defense.

You can't set the defense, and you're getting off the ball. And we all know that once the primary guy gets off the ball, what the defender does? Just for one split second, he relaxes a little bit. So, you know, when Maul and Reese and Jalen, they getting off the ball, you relax just a little bit and now I'm flying underneath and I'm getting a scream in our case

is Aaron Gordon setting a screen so you kind of want to stay body on body you don't want to switch that because now Aaron Gordon's going ducking in a smaller guy into the paint you don't want to switch that with Tyrese you know his

you know they swing into Embed you know and when he's handing a handoff the guy that's guarding Embed is so focused on Embed maybe going one-on-one when the drop off happens, he's not in the position to help. So Tyrese is coming off naked. He's coming off getting to his one, two, three, going left step back. You know, he's coming off with so much force and so much speed.

And those three guys, they come off with so much speed and they keep your defense honored all the time. There's no false gas with them when they're in action. The play with Maxie that I just think is so hard, is their simple double drag. And they'll, a lot of times in this series, at least, and again, we don't know the outcome of the series, but a lot of times in this series,

they've used Jalen Brunson's man as the first screener. Whoever Jalen is guarding, right, he's the first screener in here. Because they don't want him to switch it. Right, exactly. And it just feels like with Maxi, you bring up to speed, with Maxi in particular,

the way he's able to turn this corner and then have this defender still so concerned with Joelle, this to me is one of the toughest actions to guard for the Philadelphia 76ers. It's a simple play. It's just a double drag. It is.

But it creates an advantage because of his speed and because Joel is there. Yep. And that creates the whole ripple effect. That's what the offense. Offense is all dictated on. How can I create a trigger?

Who can create a trigger on the floor to make this whole thing work? And like you're saying, where Reese coming at that, and they don't just do like a double drag where it's like guys are like stacked right behind each other. They spread it out a little bit. So you have the first screener here and then they angle a little bit.

And then the next screener is kind of in the middle of the floor. They angle a little bit. So when Tyrese is coming off, he's already running downhill. And because of his three-point shooting, all three of them pretty much. This is what you mean by the angle, right? The first screener's a little bit higher. They're spaced out. A little bit higher.

The second screener is a little bit lower. Exactly. And, of course, as we've seen with Maxi, by the way, you go under. You go under. He shoots it from there. Exactly. And the same with those other two guys. With Brunson and with Jamal, they will stop and pop.

So, you know, when you have a threat at that point guard position with that type of speed, you want to, the offense will work. That's the trigger. That's the trigger right there. Specifically with Brunson, where do you think some of the adjustments have been in this series offensively for them to get him more space? They got him off the ball a little bit more. You know, obviously he always ends up with the ball,

but I think early on the clock they've gotten him off the ball and then allow him to get the ball after that. You know, I've seen, you know, Dante bring the ball up a little bit more. You know, Josh Hart can bring the ball up a lot more too because he's not much of a, you know, he shoots the three, but he's not much of a threat out there when he's handling the ball. So his defender is going to play off him a little bit. So it allows him to be able to go to, you know, DHS, dribble handoffs to Brunson with a live dribble.

It allows him to hit, you know, either Hardinstein, you know, or Mitchell Robinson. You know, they play that kind of like that touch game. And then they go set a pin down for Brunson coming to his left. So they've gotten, I think they've gotten Jalen Brunson off the ball a little bit more and allowed him to now get into his rickle room. He's being guarded by bigger guys. I mean, Nicholas Batum is guarding him. Kelly Ubrey is guarding him. Tobias Harris is guarding him.

They're trying to put some length, you know, around him, you know, to try to contain him a little bit. But shit, he's still getting off because he's so crafty. Yeah, that's a big part of it to me is having someone else just bring the ball up. Yeah. You think about those first couple games. And it's not that he's not, he didn't do it in games three, four, or five. Oh, yeah, for sure.

You think about those first two couple games where he's initiating the offense every time. Kelly Ubrey is picking him up at night. 94-4-5. Every single possession, every single deadball, every single make, he's guarding him. And that, to me, takes a little bit of a toll, particularly for a guy who does legitimately nearly all of the half-court creation for that team, right? With no Julius Randall. The other thing that they've done, I think, is this angle pick and roll up here. And a lot of times it is an empty side, by the way, this angle pick and roll up here they've done a good job

I think of keeping it off the sideline and why is that important so if Joel's in a drop we saw this in game five Joel's in a drop they're going to force them to his right hand right Jalen can shoot that pull-up three but the other reason it's important

is whether Joel is up or back as Jalen comes off this pick right here he now has space this is like a big thing I think. And it's going to be a big thing with Minnesota and Denver as well with Anthony Edwards pick and roll. You want these guys. Like Damian Lillard to me is, I think the best

at doing this, particularly going left. You want these guys to have space. So let's say Joel's all the way up. You want space to be able to get around him. You don't want it too close to the sideline, right? Third defender. Let's say he's back. They do a good job of chasing over. Now Jalen, as we saw multiple times this series, can get past them either way, right? With his footwork speed, got an hand one, all that stuff. So I think the way, it's not just like, oh, we're going to run an angle, pick, and roll. It's where you're putting everyone else, and it's where it is on the floor. It's giving enough space for them to actually attack the big.

Yep, absolutely. And obviously, you go through the game from game to game. You see how they're being guarded, you know. And in your case, you know, Jalen Brunson having that room on the sideline, he either can Race the big, like you said, going, you know, north and south, race the big to the, you saw it last night a couple times. He raised Joel, got laid up. He also has the ability coming right.

If Joel's in a drop, he has the ability to snake it going back left to where he's super comfortable with his mid range, getting back to his left using his footwork. And also, you know, if you get it going early, like you said, Dane Lillard is the best of this. If that big is too far, once that, you know, that office of five sets that screen, Dane's coming off and he's letting it go.

That thing, that ball is gone. before that big can't get up fast enough. He's letting it go. And Dame and Steph are two of guys in our league. Their bigs will screen them, Draymond and now Brooke and those guys. They come and screen off their guys at half court. As soon as they cross half court, they're in range.

I was thinking about Maxie. He's sort of the third guy brought up, and I was thinking about him today. I was thinking about the playoffs, right? And Joel is a big piece in this because I think having him on the floor. We watched Maxi play. Maxi was great with no Joelle this season,

but he's clearly a better player with Joelle, right? And I was thinking about Maxi, and like, yes, he's fast, but he's also, he also changes speeds so well. The way I would describe him and why I think he's so good in the playoffs is because you can't get a hold of him. Do you know what I mean by that? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

There's like a, he constantly plays with a bounce to his step. And sometimes the bounces are slower, sometimes they're faster, and then when he wants to turn on the jets, he turns on the jets. But it's hard with just two defenders, I think, and space to actually get a hold of them. Put your hands on them and really slow them down. Yeah, and the motherfucker don't get tired. Yeah.

He don't get tired. I watched that game last night. What? I think he played 50 minutes, I think, maybe. you know hurt his elbow at one point turn his ankle at one point hit the ground numerous of times try to go in a lane and dunk on two guys get it blocked get back up but he's like you said you can't get a hold of him because he don't get tired you know it just don't get tired

that's a great point um so the reason i bring up uh that anthony edward jokic stuff because to me this is like probably the most will be the most fascinating second round series. Yeah, it's going to be a good one. It's going to be a good one. Where do you think, we were talking earlier about solving the Denver Nuggets Puzzle, where do you think Minnesota has an advantage or can create an advantage? I think one of, obviously, Minnesota's advantage, which they have in our league, in general,

no matter if it's versus Denver or versus anybody, is the length that they have at the wing position. You know, you know, you don't look at Mike Conley as a tall guy, but his length, you know, he has a lot of length out there. Obviously, Ann Edwards, a lot of length. Jayden McDaniels, lift, length, cat, length, Rudy Lent, you know, they come off with Nikiel Alexander Walker, Lent, Nass Reed, Lent, who else? Kyle Anderson, they just, they continue to barrage you with. length length length and then guys that also know how to play too so you know that's been their biggest advantage because they bought in to coach finch defensive schemes or whoever the defensive coordinator is there i don't want to speculate whatever the case may be but he's the guy at the helm

the coaching staff yeah the coaching staff yeah the coaching staff um and those guys have bought into the defensive end like and and it's it's not only that they bought into the defensive end they got guys that want to defend, you know, and make their mark on the defensive end. So that creates havoc for any team, you know, not just, you know, Phoenix and not just for Denver. I think they, you know, Denver is the, you're going to have the best office team that we have in the game, excluding Boston versus the best defensive team that we have in our league right now, you know, going at it in a second round matchup, which is super intriguing and

exciting for guys like myself and fans of the game. Yeah. A couple things. So the reason I bring up the Anthony Edwards thing, so Yokic likes to be up in the pick and roll, right? So in let's say the same scenario where Anthony Edwards is getting this angle pick and roll, Yokic is going to be all the way up as he comes off. So the space and where they set this screen,

who the next guy is over. over here, where they space go bare, all of this stuff super important. If it is Carl Anthony Towne setting the screen, Nas Reid, right? Do they get to a pre-switch? Does Anthony Edwards run a pick and roll versus whoever Jamal Murray's guard, right?

Get him on them. Then all of a sudden you've got Car Anthony Towns, Nas Reid, against Jamal Murray if they switch. The other thing they did a ton in the Phoenix series, you know, when Ant was an ISO, you've got Cat as the next guy. Do you know what I mean by that,

being the next guy? Of course you do. Let me explain the next guy. All right. I'm going to use O's for offense now. I can fucking keep doing this. So let's say Ann has a matchup, or he's going against whoever.

He's going against KCP. The next guy, meaning Carl Anthony Towns is the next pass. So he drives, he tries to create, whatever it may be, that next pass is to Coronth County Towns. that's important. These are things that, like, to your point earlier,

I think I just want to reiterate this. There's a purpose to every possession. There's a reason that Aaron Gordon is spaced this way. There is a reason that Jaden McDaniels is spaced in the corner. Like, there's a reason behind all of this. Yeah, I think if Minnesota decides to put Joker in picking rolls a lot, I think they're going to trap them. they're going to force Rudy to be a decision maker in the pocket.

I mean, that's what I would do. I mean, because, you know, it's a different beast from, you know, Anthony Davis catches it in the pocket, you know, to Rudy catching in the pocket. And yes, he can make plays. We know that. I mean, he's an NBA player. And it's not like the first time teams that blitz off of him. But, you know, when you allow Ant to get downhill or you allow him to turn the corner,

it just opens up too much for that Minnesota team. So, no, we'll see. We'll see. I mean, it's all speculation and just us using our basketball IQ and our smarts of the game. But I think, you know. I don't think we're giving away any secrets, though. I think, you know, I'm just, we're trying to, we're trying to break down, like, essentially, what is going through a coaching staff? What is going through a player's head in the playoffs?

These are the things that, like, all teams meet this way. This is how, this is how, how do we exploit? this specific team, how do we exploit this specific matchup? And in some cases, because I live through it, how do I avoid this matchup? Yeah, exactly. You know, that's what's going to happen.

You know, you got two great teams going at it, two of the best teams this year, and it's going to be a chess game. Going in the game one, okay, this is our game plan. All right, shit, going into game two. Okay, that worked in game one. Okay, well, maybe it didn't work as much as we thought we did.

Let's make a change. The one seat in the West, The team that was too young was Oklahoma City. They swept the Pelicans. Obviously, Pelicans without their best player. Number of guys played well in that series. Shea, of course, had some big moments. Jalen Williams had some massive games.

But the guy that really stood out to me, particularly because there was no Zion, was Lou Dork. Was Lou Dork. His defense. on Brandon Ingram. Yeah, for sure. I wanted to ask you, as a primary guy,

what does it feel like going into a series, knowing that you are going against a Lou Dort that's just going to be in your shirt? He's not going to concede switches, right? You may force him into a switch at times, but he's never going to concede the switch. Like, he knows what his role is. And then as the series progresses,

and you've now become annoyed with him by minute 40 of game one and it's now game four. I'm serious, dude. The process for you, for any great offensive player, Luca right now going through it with Terrence Mann. Like, what is that like? I think any time you're going into a series with a defender that's capable of Ludo's skills,

you can't have much fat on the court. And that's fuck around time. I'm not coming out here trying to get in my bag. I'm not trying to come out here, you know, doing between, between, behinds, crossovers to get you off of me. If I'm in a pick and roll, you tell you're big, you got to screen him. Yes, he's going to try to fight through it. But I need you to screen him.

Get him up off of me for a little bit. And then if I'm in ISO situations, I know I can't fuck around. It's quick moves. It's quick moves, one counter and get to my spot, either all the way to the cup or get to my spot on the floor. Because if you play around with guys like that,

they're going to wear on you. They're going to keep their body on you. They're going to make a physical, you know. In the playoffs, you're allowed to be a little bit more physical. Well, as I've seen in all the other series, in our series, it felt like a fucking regular season game. But whatever, that's beside the point. Says the guy whose team,

had the greatest free-throw disparity in the NBA the last two seasons, this fucking guy. So you gotta, like, you gotta just go. There's no, maybe you can get one game to wear up to warm up to his intensity, the way he's playing, whatever. But it's not much. You can't be out there fucking around with your movements

and you getting the job done because he's not going for none of that. He's just, he's there. He's there in your chest. Is that mindset around not messing around? Is that because you know there's going to be a toll with him guarding you? So doing extra creates an extra toll? Is that sort of the mindset of that?

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And also at the same time, you know, I believe you can wear guys like that down as well. You know, if you're not messing around, you may be able to get him with an early cheat one. you know, because he's trying to be too, he's trying to be too physical, you know, so you go quick and you get a quick early cheat one on him. So now he got one file with 10 minutes ago in the first.

He's going to back off a little bit, you know. You were able to get him a second file, you know, late in the first quarter early in the second maybe. He damn sure when he'll pick up three in the first half because now he got to come out for the rest of the half. So, you know, for me, it's, you know, I'm trying to just play the chess game for sure. But, you know, Dura was definitely doing his thing

versus B.I. And the rest of those guys, he had him. and wrestling terms, he had him in a cobra clutch. Is there anyone that you'd like to praise, any of those defenders like Lou Dort, that you feel like throughout your career, whether you've won or lost or whether they've lost or won,

where you would get done with the series and be like, oh, dude, that guy has my respect. You know, I think it was my first year back in Cleveland on a return, and it was maybe our first round opponent. I think we played Detroit, if I'm not mistaken. And I think KCP was on that team, Drummond was on that team, a couple other guys was on that team.

Obviously, Moose was on that team, I believe. I think Stan was coaching, if I'm not mistaken. I think Stan was coaching that team. But back to your question, Stanley Johnson was, he earned my respect in that first round series. Stanley Johnson, he had the lateral movement, he had the physicality. You could tell that the coach of staff told him, don't worry about the schemes.

I feel like the same thing with Dorrit. It was like, don't worry about the schemes. Yeah, everybody's switching but you. You get through every screen. If you weak side low, man, you have no responsibility. You don't pull in. You're basically playing a boxing one. You know, there's a lot more guys, obviously.

I would give credit to defensively, but that's the one guy like off the top of my head like in like, yeah, no, no, no, I know exactly what you're saying. It's not recent memory is 10 years ago, but it's recent enough. But Stanley definitely was,

he possessed those skills in our league for sure. Well, this has been fun. The last point I want to make because I like, I like when one show builds upon another. You know, we did the show last week about three-point show. shooting and why it's sort of changed everything.

I saw a great stat today that came across my timeline. Teams that make more threes in this playoffs so far, 27 and 9, teams that attempt more threes, just attempt more threes, are 27 and 8. There's a lot of factors. No, dude, there's a lot of factors in all of this, right? because some of these games are coming down to single plays. You can have a high turnover game with a bunch of live ball turnovers like the Clippers did in game three that leads to a bunch of fast break points for the math.

Like, there's a bunch of factors to a game. Yeah. And I'm sure there's other stats that show, oh, if you do this versus this, right, you're going to win the game. All I'm saying is, I think, three-point shooting is pretty important. I think there's a math issue. But what do you stand as far as, you more threes more more for you know when you're coaching your your son's team is it more

my son's team is it more threes or less threes when you're coaching when you're coaching your son's team on a weekend what is it uh i i believe i believe math should play into it um i think there's times now where uh you're you have to play a perfect game if at the baseline level you're going to be outmathed, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you have to say, okay, where can we create an advantage? Can we be a team that forces a ton of turnovers? Right. Can we be a team that crashes the offensive glass?

There's other ways to create advantages. My point is, if you're going against a team that is going to shoot 40 to 40, three's and you're going to shoot 20 to five to 25 to 30 you better fucking nail all of your advantages right right right otherwise you you're just you're not going to win it's based on the math the math ain't math and at that point yeah now you got to have the i recognize you got to have the personnel to do all these things i you know with my my kids i have i have three kids three kids that can shoot threes you know for a nine 10 year old that are i would call it efficient and i'm like you you you if you

guys take 10 good threes in a game, 12 good threes in a game, I'm cool with it. Because these games, you know, a high-scoring game is 40 to 38. Right? We got 14-minute running clocks, except for the last three minutes of the half. So it's like, if we can shoot 30-3s and make five or six of them, I'm living with that, bro. By the way, shooting a three at that age, you know what that is? That's a shot and not a turnover. So I'll take that all day. For sure, for sure. And in our league, too, you've got to look at it that way sometimes, too, because you got guys who get into the lane or teams get into the lane

and had a wide open three, they're trying to get into the lane, make plays, and here go the turnover. And it's just too hard with the speed and the guys that we have in our league to get back in transition. You can't get the numbers as bad, you know, so I'm warming up more and more as I wind my career down on the three-point attempt. But I am a math guy. That was my favorite subject in school.

So I definitely get it. I understand it. You actually, you kind of alluded to this. You know, the conversation around LeBron shooting 12, 14-3s in a game was interesting because you attacking the basket is actually what makes, like, an offense work, right? So you could individually say, you know what? a lot of guys are like this Luca could

James could I'm going to shoot fuck it I'm going to shoot 15 threes tonight I'm going to shoot 23s right is that the best way

for the team to run an offense now in some cases in James and Houston fuck it was right yeah Steph running around

running pick and roll getting dribble handoffs shooting transit for them that's the best way for them to run offense him taking 15 threes so I do

I do think it's case by case. If you're in your, you're somehow still in your prime, it seems like, but if you're in your prime, you trying to get to the basket makes the game easier and open for everybody. I mean, you know, it's pretty cool. I mean, to hear, listen, if I have a guy that, you know, from a perimeter standpoint, that's an attacker, and I know he can, you know, feast off opening our offense,

up by getting into the lane and making plays with the lane, you know, I can see myself, you know, playing another six years, just being a spot-up shoot. Maybe shooting eight to ten threes a game. I'm, yeah, you know, I did okay this year from the three-point line. I did okay. I think you should just do a complete heel turn next year, and I'm going to send you, I'm going to send you all my tapes, I'll send you all my highlight videos, and, and, and, you You should just become, like, an off-ball movement catching shit guy.

Just flying off screens, leaning, falling away. Oh, my God. You know how bad guys would be my opponent? Like, what the fuck are you doing? Why are you running this fast coming off pin downs like this? All right, man. Cheers. Fun as always.

Cheers. Always fun, brother. Oh, man. Hey, guys. Thanks for listening. Thanks for watching Mind the Game podcast. If you like it, please hit that subscribe button. Thank you.

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