Mind the Game - Defining Success and Playing with Luka

Episode Date: April 1, 2025

Mind the Game is BACK with a brand new season to break down the game with LeBron James and a brand new co-host, 2X MVP and NBA legend, Steve Nash. In this episode, Steve talks to LeBron about what the word ‘success’ means to him at 40 years old and the lessons he hopes he’s passed on to the next generation of NBA greats. Then the conversation transitions to the new look Los Angeles Lakers and their brand new superstar, Luka Doncic. What are the hurdles with making an in-season trade and what makes LeBron particularly excited about playing with Doncic. Finally the guys dig into the x’s and o’s of what this Lakers team has done early with LeBron and Luka. Thanks for watching Mind the Game and enjoy the show!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

I want you to have a cup, that's the only thing I'm like. Yeah, that works. How long does it take you to practice? At the hour I go, it probably takes me 20 minutes. Oh, easy. Yeah, yeah, I go early. We got to practice at 11. I'll try to get there at like, you know, later than 8.30.

So it'll take me about 20 minutes. On the way back, I have the price, like, 35. Yeah. Oh, perfect. If you want. Yeah. You. Uh, we are rolling.

Rolling. We've been rolling. There you go. Love it. Yeah, Steve, no pressure. All right. Hey, I'm Steve Nash, and this is season two of Mind the Game. For those of you who were listening, subscribing, downloading last season, you had JJ Reddick,

formerly a podcaster and now the coach of the Los Angeles Lakers with his star student, LeBron James, discussing the game of basketball. I thought they did an exceptional job of kind of digging into the weeds a little bit of the technical aspects of the game. And we hope to continue that a little bit here on season two. LeBron's been really gracious with his time, allowing us to kind of get inside the mind of one of the all-time greats, not just on the technical stuff, but in the big pitcher items as well.

you know, his approach, his mentality, his preparation and recovery, along with the current trends of the game, where the game's going, how it's being played, how we dissect and analyze the game. So I'm excited. We've got a great opportunity here to talk about the game I love, someone that I greatly admire, and having an opportunity to discuss not only the current Lakers team that has had some major moves recently, but also the entire league and the state of the game of basketball. This is amazing. Great to sit down with you. You know, we've played against each other. We've dapped each other up, you know, dozens of times. But we never really got a chance to sit down. Right.

You know, a meal or, you know, a drink together. So this is, you know, an honor for me to get to know your way of thinking, your approach. And I'm excited for the series. So let's make this. Welcome back, man. Mind the game. Welcome back, man. Welcome back. Welcome back. Let's make this a good one. Let's make it fun. Absolutely. Let's do it. You're brave, though. I'm a rookie. So, you know, last year you were doing this with a professional podcaster,

who now is your head coach and a pretty damn good one at that. So, you know, I'm going to try to pick it up for him. I'm going to try to, you know, see if I can get under the hood of the Lakers a little bit along the way. I'm fascinated by his journey as well. But sitting in his seat here with you is going to be a lot of fun for me. So let's crack it off. Absolutely. And the closure, real quick.

if he gets a head coaching job because whatever we didn't talk about this beforehand guys yeah right right all right just just let you guys know pretty talk about it but two great minds though once again thank you let's do it that's good

well listen the the first thing that I want to hear you speak about is from the time you're I don't know 12 13 years old you've been the guy okay so how many people in the history of the game have sat here at 40 years years old having done everything, you know. Kiss the ass, get that out of the way right away.

But champion, MVP, golds, titan of industry, you know, business. You've landed the plane on Mount Rushmore after 30 years, basically. Like, what does success look like for you now at 40? That's a great question, Steve. I mean, I think it comes down to, like, what does success means to me now about inspiring the guys that's with you and the, the, that's with you and the, the crew that's coming after you, you know, hoping that what you're doing and the tools and the DNA and the blueprint that you're doing while you're still playing and striving while you're doing that, it is going to, it's going to trickle down to the generation that you're with and the generation that's coming in. You know, we've always heard the saying, like,

leave the game in a better place than when you were in it. And that's what success for me. I hope I can inspire the next generation of great players, great athletes, not only in just basketball, but in sport in general, to what it means to take care of your body and, you know, keeping your mind fresh and understanding like being more, being more driven by the process more than the actual ending goal. And then just trying to be great or as great as you can, be squeezing as much juice out of yourself as you can and doing it because you're, you're, You're doing it for the love of the process and not what it brings, not what the sport brings you.

Great answer. And I was going to say in the middle of it, like the obvious answer is to win a championship you. Right, for sure. But like the process is everything. I think it's so important for young players in line with what you're saying to realize process over outcome. Yeah.

So many, whether you're 7 year old or 14 year old or 25 year old, sometimes we get care of the outcome. Right. But it's a process that leads to an outcome. If you start looking at the outcome, you lose side of the process. So you've always been a leader in that respect, like taking care of your body, you've been on the cutting edge, you know, life off the court, you know, building businesses, the way even during your career, you change franchises strategically, always cutting edge, always thinking ahead, always trying to get somewhere that you think is interesting,

fascinating about where you can take the game. Perfect. Thank you. Thank you, guys. Absolutely. It's a good health? Absolutely. Down the stretch here especially. Thank you.

that's beautiful that's lovely like they was stepping on those grapes right outside right out back for sure where was I the process there's another former 40 year old Laker in the room it didn't go as well but I would say I fought with everything I could to keep playing

like I wanted to keep going like I would have loved to play two three four more years Because, you know, you get to that stage where you're at right now, you can see over the fence. Yeah, for sure. And that's vast. More than any time before, absolutely. You've been in the league now longer than you've not been in the league in your life. Right.

Right. 22 compared to 18. Right. And then you got your whole rest of your life without, you know, playing the game, whenever that is. And I have a hunch it's not now because of what I've been noticing lately. But my point being is that, like, when I was fighting to get every last drop that I could, like, I wanted to compete. I wanted to be on the floor. I wanted to win games.

But what I really was obsessed with in love with was the process of trying to get better every day, trying to prepare to stay healthy, to get healthy, to refine my skills, to get sharper, get fit, or all those things. So I can relate to that, but I think it's a wonderful message for young players. You know, so many nowadays, like social media, whatever it is,

the lens gets so broad. We forget about, like, my process is all I have. Yeah. Right? I mean, you just said it. I mean, because of social media, and because of people wanting instant gratification, instant oatmeal, I always call it.

Like, okay, just throw it in the microwave, and a minute and a half is warm. You know, I think if you really want to be great at something, it definitely doesn't happen overnight. It's not going to happen in a year or two. And even if you're having a great season or you're having a career year, there's still so much more room to continue to improve.

You know, it's still much more room. room for you to continue with the process of becoming great, where it's sustainable. You know, we've both been in many all-star games, multiple all-star games, and we've both seen guys that were there one year, and then guys that were not there to next year, you know, and you know, you ask yourself, you know, when I walk into those locker rooms still, I ask myself, what was, what was it? What was the defining factor why that particular player wasn't there to follow in a couple years after he had that breakout season the year before, you know, and that's disregarding

if an injury happened, you know, so being able to just like make the lens so much smaller and not looking at like the finished product, because yes, we all want to, you know, in our respective support, we want to host Illy O'Brien Trophy, like you've seen it, you've seen other guys do it, you've seen it over the course of time, you feel like it submits your legacy or whoever that you want to become, but ultimately, like, the time and the commitment that you give to yourself, into your body, into your craft, into your mind, those things will take care of itself. And if it's meant for you to have, then it's meant for you to have. And if it's not, if you've done all those things leading up to it and it still didn't happen, you sleep better

at night. You're okay with yourself because you gave, you gave your body, your mind, your soul, everything that you could ever ask for. I'll take it one step further. When you are in your process as you have been locked in for years, especially with the aperture of what you have to deal with, is there any better feeling than being locked in? No. Like when you are locked in and you are, you know, you're taking, and you're in a rhythm and every day you're knocking it down, you never miss a step. Like, you go to bed feeling great, you wake up feeling inspired, you go in the gym with

energy, right? Like, that's the best way to live. And that's why, like, I didn't want to stop. Right, right. So, like, it's amazing that you can have that approach, still fighting for it at this age, still playing incredible basketball and that you're leaving a legacy my question would be like

was there a time in your career where that light bulb went on and you realize it is all about the process I would say probably around year seven or eight you know I was around 25 26

you know when I first entered the league I always had the mind for the game you know no plug I always had the mind for the game. So I knew that I was, when I became a professional, I knew I could think the game, you know, and I knew that my body was ready for the game as well. What I did not know or, you know, what I did not have, I didn't have enough accumulative hours put in on perfecting the process.

You know, in high school, you play high school ball, you're there with your friends, you're enjoying it. And yes, I was in a gym a lot sooner than some of my teammates and best friends, and I left the gym a lot sooner than some, I mean, a lot later than some of my teammates and best friends. But still, there's another level. There's another level that, quite frankly, I didn't know. Yeah. You know, and it took me, you know, I thought when I, you know, took my team to the finals in 2006, I believe, at age 22, I was going to do that for the next, you know, three or four years.

Like I was like, okay, just maybe give me one more piece. You know, and at 23, I got into the postseason and lost in the second round. And then I'm, you know, 24, I got there. I got to the Easter Conference Finals or vice versa. Easter Conference Finals was the second round one of those years, and I didn't get back into the finals until 2011. You know, so it was five years later. I just thought it was going to happen like that.

And I think part of it was, you know, me being young. And obviously, you know, you play some superior teams, but at the end of the day, I don't think that, you know my process was where it needed to be or even if i even had enough time for my process to be where it needed to be right to be and i didn't win a championship i believe until i finally was understanding and had the ability as far as my capacity to understand the process to unlock the process and then go after it yeah and to stay there stay that course i think another word describing that unlocking and staying there is efficiency yeah like

And sometimes, like, you outwork, you know, you're in there early, you stay late, you know you can do it, you're learning, because you have the mind for the game. But, like, it takes maturity to, like, figure out what efficiency really means, right? What it really means. Like, other stuff happens in your life, you know, you become bigger. Social media comes into the world. You start a family. Now you've got to be really efficient, right? Because things get in the way.

So you have to start saying, no, no, no, I got to be focused and locked in. Sometimes you just can't do that at 20, 21, 22. No, no, I just don't think you can. And I think you can be as locked in as your hard drive will allow you to be. You know, I've always said this saying, like, the best teacher in life is experience, you know. And you have the ability to go through a career in a profession where you have, you know, instances and moments that will either shape you to understand what's coming next or not. And it's up to you, like, how much more do you want to be put in that position because you know how to handle it the next time?

So, you know, I think, you know, even when you do become a champion, if you're able to become a champion at 20 or 21 or at 22, you're still not tapped. I mean, when Kobe came in, you know, he had a couple years and then Shaq came to the team, and I think he won his first one at, like, 21 or 22. But he wasn't the Kobe that we all saw in 2008, 2009, 2010, when he was really able to define his game and hone in on his skill, his efficiency, his, his mind, you know, we saw the complete Kobe Bryant, you know, then. So I think it just, it just takes time.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, it's, it's an interesting one because, like, it seems so obvious at this end of our careers and lives, right? But you look back and you're like, yeah, you know what, I probably wasn't as efficient back then. So, like, it, there is a, like, even if you tell this story to, like, talking to Brani. Right. Some of it he takes because he's a smart kid. He loves the game. But some of it is just not ready to take.

And like you said, I say you can't cheat experience. Right. Like you need to go through stuff. You need to build scores. And it's the ones that really have the dedication that want to win, they want to be the best that want to be prepared, that they learn. Yeah. They learn from the rest of the same.

Absolutely. I mean, it's funny you say that because I have to check myself sometimes throughout the course of games or practices or shoot-arounds or film sessions. when we have a couple young guys on the team and I expect for them to know it and that's unfair to them. I've always talked about like my little league coaches and the coaches I've had over the course of my career,

I believe they really set me up for the greater of the game of basketball. Like I was, you know, like I was taught how to pass and cut. I was taught, you know, flex action. I was taught, you know, ball movement, you move. Defensively, when the ball move, you move.

You know, I was taught, you know, pointing your fingers out and having your fingers point out. If you can see, you know, you're a man, you know, and the ball, then you're in the right position. I was taught that, you know, if you're not getting more satisfaction out of seeing the success of your teammates, then what are you doing it for? Like, I was taught all those things. And then also being able to lock in like, okay, if a coach writes down to play on the board, on the whiteboard, you know, to not mess it up on when you get out on the court. You know, like we would study those things. And this was like 8, 9, 10, 11 years, you know, when I was 11, 12. All still applicable today.

All today. And for the Lakers? One of my pet peeve is a coach writing a play on the board and 20 seconds later that guys go out there and fuck it up. You know, that's one of my pet people. But back to what I was saying, like, you know, I expect excellence out of everyone, you know. And I expect for everyone to know exactly what we're doing, how we're supposed to do on what's going to happen. going to happen. But also, I have to check myself sometimes just saying, okay, the level of experience may not, it's not there just yet. Appropriate excellence. Appropriate excellence, yes.

Which is a hard balance. Right. It's a hard balance when, you know, shit, you're 40. And you're like, okay, I'm looking over the mountain. I say, oh shit, there's the end. Right. Yeah, yeah. There's the end for me, you know, and I'm still competing at a high level. And I'm like, well, I have a chance to, you know, possibly win another championship. But this is a team. game. You know, you know, when it comes to, you know, soccer and football and basketball, these are complete team, no matter how great you are as an individual, you know, and you have to rely on either, you know, four other guys, the guys coming off the bench, you know, football, you have to rely on the other 10 guys, and then the offense, defense, office coordinator,

soccer, the same shit. You have to rely on everybody. So, you know, it's a, it's a tug of war for me mentally, you know, when it comes to, when it comes to it. And the system's not set for kids to learn the same way you know whether it's a you whether it's you know the way I'll put myself in this category my generation of parenting we protect our kids too much you know like you got to let them like fail a little bit you know now you know the kids mean everything to the AAU program yeah yeah and if they don't like it there then they go somewhere else they don't like it there to go somewhere else like it's yeah an NIL right so can a coach be hard on you like I would

have never made the league if it wasn't for my high school coach my college coach being hard as hell on me. Yeah. You know, that made me tough. That made me be able to suffer, to fail, to get back up, to keep going, to keep believing. Because they'd rode me, right? They wrote me. And so that's a hard thing for our kids, like to, you know, there's very few environments

nowadays that have that where we let them struggle, right? I think it's so appropriate challenges. I was, like, so, like, humbled and appreciative, like, when Bronny wanted to stay at his high school for four straight years. Yeah. You know, even, you know, he could have went other places and maybe even got better opportunities, or be able to do whatever he wanted to do with the game or whatever. And he stayed at the same high school for four years.

And our youngest son did as well. He, because of parenting, because of some things that was happening at the school that we didn't like, we kind of made him transferred in the summertime. He wanted to stay. And then ultimately he came to us and said he was not happy with the places that we sent them to, and he ended up going back. And now this is his senior year, and basically he spent all four years in the same high school, too. And that means something.

Like, you're not, like, running away from adversity. You're, you know, even though things might not be going your way, you're able to say, fuck it, man. Like, okay, this is, I'm here. Yes. I've laid the groundwork. And, okay, yeah, it's not going well for me here. But this is not even the real world.

What if it doesn't work out for me in a real world? I can't just, like, pack up and just leave. You know, I have to be able to stick through it and work through it. So, yeah. But those are values that start at home. Yeah, absolutely. They value community. They value character, resilience.

Like they want, they didn't want to leave their teammates. Like, that stuff matters. And I think that that's important, you know, as a value for parents, but also, like, as a community. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. You know, as someone who's always looking for that next rush, whether it's driving the lane or threading the needle, we get it.

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Discover what lies beyond the edge of your seat on Audible. Sign up for a 30-day free trial at Audible.com slash game and dive into a world of new thrills. That's audible.com slash g-a-m-m-v. The next part of our conversation centers around the Los Angeles Lakers. But first, I'd like to give some background on different actions, different vocabulary that we use in the NBA. Just maybe give a slightly deeper level for certain fans out there that haven't been exposed to some of the technical acumen that, you know, is just the language of NBA. players. So one that we spoke about in this episode was the short roll. The short roll is essentially catching the ball shortly after rolling to the basket. You know, we've all seen the guard keep the

ball and throw the lob at the rim or throw the pocket pass where the big takes it to the basket. But the short role is when you release the ball early to whoever set that screen and now they're the playmaker out of that pocket. So often it comes from a quick little double team. So we have the offensive player with the ball. Offensive player comes and sets a screen. X guarding, X guarding the roller. Here he comes off with the ball. Maybe this defender comes and jumps. For a second, we have two on the ball.

The roller gets right in here and we have a little bounce pass or a little pass over the top into this pocket, which allows them now to be essentially a playmaker playing three on two or four on three from that position. Next, we have the pocket pass. This is pretty self-explanatory. There's a pocket created when someone sets

pick and roll if the big is not up to the level so we have a screener here coming up to set the screen his defender is usually lagging the play right here as the ball handler dribbles off the pick and roll and the roller rolls there's a pocket between the two defenders where that ball can be thrown to the roller to take to the basket blender blender is a term we use in the NBA when a team is in rotation essentially when they've created the their first bit of penetration, and help is forced. Now, when you create a situation where someone comes to help and the ball is passed around the gym and someone else now puts it on the floor to touch the pain or place two-on-one

with the weak side, essentially that broken floor where a team is trying to recover and they're in rotations is called blender. So a lot of NBA teams like to knock down the first domino, whether it's pick and roll, isolation, transition, force a team into rotations. Now they can start moving the ball around the gym, creating close. close outs or two-on-ones, pain touches that open up three-point shooters, or opportunities at the rim for baskets, offensive rebounds, all sorts of havoc. We call that blender.

In this episode, LeBron references angle pop. It's a standard action in the NBA. So we have an offensive player with the ball. We have an offensive player here in the corner. The other corner is filled. Here comes a pick and roll. Ball handler comes off to pick and roll. We pop, ball goes to the popper.

If it's two on this side, there's a hard dive, and then a DHO, dribble handoff with the corner guy, attack, roll, or of course if there's a switch, you can attack the switch or post up the mismatch. We did mention in this episode about being in the gaps, protecting the paint offensively. We've got a ball, let's just say it's head on the rim, out top. We have a defender here. This is a great isolation player with speed skill that we see on every team in the NBA. You know, we have the floor spread, so perhaps we have a shooter's foul line extended and

the corners filled, and this is a difficult ball handler to contain. You have a choice to either stay home, which would mean your defenders out here next to the shooter, trying not to give up threes, or we can be in the gaps, loading to the ball, trying to take away penetration. A lot of teams have tough decisions to make in our league with guys with such athleticism and skill, but a lot of teams place a heavy emphasis on being in the gaps, not allowing penetration,

even though we're a three's heavy league, you know, the number one thing you want to take away is your rim. Well, look, let's talk about these Lakers. Let's do it. Let's talk about these Lakers. Look, this, you know, you guys won a championship. You know, you guys won a championship, a few years back now.

You know, I don't know if it's fair to say, but felt like the project, if I can call it, that was getting a little stale. All of a sudden, you guys made a huge trade. You know, you get one of the greats already at 25, nearly 26, five-time first-team all-MBA, Luca Donchich. Amazing player. Exciting, of course. But I'd like to know from you, like, what excited you about getting to play with Luca?

Because he plays the game, Hobb, always wanted to inspire the generation to play the game. It's like, there's no, and there's nothing predetermined. It's, if you, if you have two guys on you, there's a numbers game. If you have the advantage, if a guy that, you know, you can't guard you or, or you're able to beat him and then the guy traps the box or another guy thinks, I'm able to make the passes and make the reads before they happen. And I've always loved the players that breathe so much confidence into his teammates that make them believe that they're actually better than what the fuck they really are. Yes, yes. You did that.

Luca has done that for seven years. Chris Paul did that when he was down there in New Orleans and doing that for that team down there in New Orleans. I've been able to do that. But a few of my teams, I mean, I don't go to the NBA finals in 2006 with that team. If I'm not able to make them believe that they're greater than what they all. you know and it just give them that confidence it's a great point because I think people understand you make your teammates better but making them believe is a whole other thing because you can spray the ball around the gym and make people

better right but to give them that belief that like no what I do is important and valued and you're gonna help our team win like that's a different and it makes them ultimately they would do anything for me I run through a wall for you you know I mean we we saw it unfortunately one of your teammates gets to depending in the post season, you know, when you get chucked to the scores table. But that's because you've given them so much confidence and so much belief, you fucking touch Steve,

like you're, I feel like you're going after me. We built that bond. You've built that bond, you know what I'm saying? So like, Luca has that. And I mean, he learned that from growing up in Slovenia to heading over to Madrid and learning the game the right way and playing at a professional level at, what, 13? 14 years old, and he brought that same model and that same game to the NBA.

Like from day one. From day one. He's from day one. Incredible. Incredible. Let me bring up a question for you. I've heard many people say you can't make a blockbuster trade mid-season and contend. I'd like to know you.

They're wrong. Yeah. And tell me how you feel about that. There's validity to that, but it doesn't mean it's black and white. Right. No, it's definitely, it's very challenging, you know, especially mid-season. Because, I mean, you know, you really start the season in September, and you start to implement, you know, what you want to do offensively, what you want to do defensively.

And, yes, the course of the season, there's times where, okay, maybe we shouldn't do this. Okay, let's lean to this. But the premise and the staple of what you want to do offensively defensively is put in place. You know, so when you add, when you talk about blockbuster, not just a regular, you know, get a piece here there, but if you add a blockbuster trade where you bring in, you know, a Luca Donchitz or a blockbuster trade or if Anthony Davis goes, you know, to Dallas, whatever, you have to kind of rearrange know how we're playing, you know. So now Dallas goes from being heavy pick and roll, you know, to, you know, four out, you know, one big. big, come set it for Luca, you get a roller, you get spreads. You know, when Lucas sits down and, okay, Kyrie gets the ball and now he does his thing. You know, now, you know, their team kind of changes.

And our team dynamic changes, too, from, you know, we need AD to touch the ball every time down. We have to have AD engaged in order for us to be able to win because when AD is engaged, offensively is going to work, and then defensively, it makes us even more incredible. So now we have to change our whole thing to now. Completely different.

Completely different because Lucas, he needs the ball. He has to have the ball. It makes no sense of bringing in Barry Bonds if we're not going to have him back clean. Right, right? It's early, right? Like this episode might not come out for a month, but you know, you've, you've beaten Dallas last night. You've beat Denver in Denver, who was at this, at the moment of taping, was on fire. Yeah, on fire. Playing very well, kind of found their stride. Nicola Yoakich, obviously makes it very difficult for everybody. Oh my goodness, does it. But like what I've seen in this four or five games with Lucas has been exciting.

Yeah. It's been exciting. And so this is one of those real opportunities where I say, okay, they could buck this trend of being difficult. Before I get to my thought, the other thing that's hard is someone who's coached,

you don't get a lot of time with the team to implement. Like the season is, you know, travel, plane, hotel, game, game, day off, you know, performance teams now. I want you off all the time. Right, right.

So as a coach, trying to implement is difficult. There's no practice. No practice time. Yeah, there you go. You walk through, you watch film. Like even watching some of the quick hitters you guys are running. Like I'm sure JJ wants a little more pace into some of those, right?

But you don't have time. Right. How do you get time to be like, let's run through this fast? No, no. I mean, Jay, for sure. He's like, you know, when we're in shoot around, you know, he's kind of harping on it. Like, he had drawn something. And then when we break, he say, these are some of the things I would like to do on the fly.

Yeah. Where I don't have to call a timeout and be an ATO, you know, much rather us learning. Let's try to figure it out how we can learn. figure it out how we can learn it, you know, to where if you're going down to court and I yelled it out, you guys know exactly what we're doing. You know, so like, I mean, you just said it, you know, it's when you make that blockbuster trade, you know, in mid-season, it is hard because you said, you know, the games are every other day, you know, three and four nights, four and six nights, back-to-backs, you know, the month of March, we have four back-to-backs in the month of March.

You know, I think it's something like I've seen like six games or, yeah, six games in like seven days, seven and a half days. So that makes it even more important. The shootarounds, the film sessions, you know, when you're on the plane and you're flying, you know, having to give us the iPads and you're watching it and showing your team, that's up here or what could I have done here.

Stealing some time. Stealing some of the things that you, I don't want to say take for granted practice time. You're not going to have, you know. So, I mean, you said it. That's the fine line. And I think, like, you know, like we think about putting in place sets, but it's principles, too. Like getting familiar with the principal.

It's side out of bounds, underneath out of bounds, end of the game, get in, end of game plays. Oh, my goodness. People take for granted, yeah. Like, defense are principles, but then, like, what's our off-speed pitch? What's our curveball? Like, you know, okay, what's our blitz package look like? Thinking how are we going to get it out of his hands, whatever it is? Like, that takes time, that takes feel.

So that's a big challenge for you all. But what I would say is that watching you play. play early, it's been fascinating. And I'd like to start by talking about two of the greatest point forwards of all time. Two guys that can dominate a game with the ball in their hands, scoring, passing, rebounding, whatever they want, two computer processors, right? But you can't both have the ball. Right.

So what I've been impressed with is, and Luca, too, and I think you've started down this path with Austin, in that you started empowering him. You started like picking more spots, saying like, I don't need to control everything. As we feel in the heart of our career, you feel like we can't lose, I can't give the game away. When it comes down the stretch, I'm going to make every decision, right? So, empowering your teammates is important, especially when you're in New York 22. Absolutely. So what I've been impressed with, with everybody, but in particular you, is your ability to be a spacer, a cutter, a screener, a short roller, a quick decision maker.

Like, that to me is where your team offensively can reach an incredible, light and not think, look back in me, why did we even think, like, two primary ball hunters? Can you expound on, like, how you are approaching this process? I'm, well, I'm very smart when it comes to the game of basketball. That's never in question. No, the habits, the habits, right? It's not the intelligence. I know you see it, do everything, the habit of saying, like, I'll be a cutter.

Yeah. I'll be a screener. I'll be a spate, let me just space. I will be, when I know, when I know, when I, know that it's for the betterment of the team and for ultimately for us to reach our our rim I'm able to adapt to whatever position that needs to be done and and in this case understanding how great Luke is how on the rise Austin is I can do things that affect the game still that benefits our team and like you said

you know, being able to come up and set a pick and roll where it's a switch league, you know, and but to be able to pick and slip or pick and hit the short roll, now what I do best is even more unlocked. So you're giving me a pocket pass and now I'm playing the four on three game. Right, 100%. I'm playing the four on three game where I have, you know, I've gotten the ball from Luke in the pocket or AR in the pocket. Now I'm having, now I get to read and decide what. These three defenders are going to guard me with the ball, two guys in the corner and a big and a dunker or small in the dunker. Yeah.

I'm going to pick you apart. You know, instead of always having to be at the head of the play and now all eyes are on me and it's a five-on-five man, you know, or, you know, being, you know, when Luke's ability to manipulate a defense. They store the defense. Yeah, if you put two on him, and now when the ball has swung to me, and I'm going against a closeout, which is, it doesn't happen to much, you know, in my career. You guys staying home for 22 years. For 22 years. To get eyes on someone else for a change, and then I'm catching it on the backside with a live dribble or I'm cutting through traffic, you know, it's. But like, one of the highest forms of intelligence is also knowing what your sacrifice needs to be.

Right? And it's an insult to you, but like, there has been examples in our league where great players, playing with other great players, like to your turn, my turn. Yeah. Right. Immediately you were bought into, I'm not just standing over here in the parking lot waiting for Luca to do his thing. I'm going to eat off of him and I'm going to create for him. And seeing you do that right away, such a great example of how to play the game, going to play the game the right way, in a way that you haven't done for the majority of 22 years. Yeah. And I think I just always go back to my, to my. the teaching, you know, um, you know, I, I, when I start, first started playing basketball, there were, there were no picking rolls when I first started playing basketball.

It was just motion offense. Yeah, flex and motion and, you know, cutting, cut and screen away and cut and pass. And, you know, there was none of that, you know, in high school, um, you know, my, my two coaches, uh, coach, uh, Keith Dan Brown, who just retired from Duquesne last year. And, uh, and coach Drew Joyce, who's, I think he's got about about a year. year or two left, you know, as same in the same area. We didn't run much pick and roll either. It was all about like how can we get the ball moving from one side to another, move the

defense, break down the defense with dribble drives, try to get middle, guys suck in, you spray. You ain't got a shot, quick decisions, quick decisions, moving, moving. So it was always a numbers game for me growing up. And, you know, when you get into the NBA, obviously, you know, things change and it's all about, you know, how can we, you know, target here or whatever the case may be or, you know, just get guys, you know, get the numbers game, you know, but it's the same. It was the same mind frame for me, you know, from when I was a kid. So me being able to take a step back,

but also still be laser sharp and focus on what's the job at hand. It was not a, it's a sacrifice, but it's not something that I'm not willing to do for the better of the team. Yeah. It's been exciting to see, man. And it's also beautiful to watch, right? You know, it's like a lot of people in the NBA call it Blender. Like when you make you, Steve Kerr says when you knock the first domino down. So whatever that is that gets penetration, I'm a big believer in paint touches. Yes, sir. You know, getting that first domino to fall, getting that first paint touch, getting to blender,

excites me a little bit. Two things for you. One, like, you've always been receiving the screen. Yeah. So you know when you're like, I want them to slip. I want them to flip the screen. You know, I want, you now are in control of doing that, having no what the ball handler's feeling, seeing. So you're going to create more opportunities for you to catch on the short role and play four on three, three on two, which is exciting.

The other thing that's really, and I want you to talk about that, but the other thing that's exciting to me is watching how you'll make quick decisions. Guys, like, I'll give you a little anecdote. Like my responsibility with the Sons, for example, was to create shots for a team, whether it was me or for someone else. So although I made them, I was, believe it or not, really uncomfortable in catching and shoot threes. Yeah. Because I might not get one for a week and a half, right? It was all off the dribble. And so I know sometimes, like, it might be uncomfortable for you.

Like, Luca's man just leans, he throws it out of the post for you to go. Right, right. Because you're used to serving. Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. But I've seen already you've been catching and going. Which brings me to a point that I really believe in. And I think the best three examples are you, Luca and Nicole Iokic.

Not only are you guys incredible processors, you know, see everything, have made every pass, can do all that. But you all have the physicality to play bully ball. So whether that's in the post, with a mismatch, whether that's I'm bigger, I'm faster than a big on the perimeter, or whether that's you've got to close out on me, and I'm just, if I can't get you clean, I got a big shoulder. Guess what? This guy's taking you to the rim, and I can see over everyone. So you're basically, I see you guys do this.

You're looking at the guy in the corner. Just as I get to the around, are you coming? Because I'm just going to hit the corner. And then he sees you look in and now you put him in a bind. You're playing cat and mouse. But that ability to make quick decisions, to play bully ball. and you have Luca can do the same thing. You know, this is exciting for me

to see, like, you guys play off of each other. You know, a guy just leans the wrong way the ball's gone, you drive. He recovers, but taking him to the rim, surveying you're in rotations. That, to me, is a separator of the three of you in our league, right? Like, a lot of guys can play bully ball.

A lot of guys, or not a lot, but there's some computer processors, but putting the two together, you know, that's, like, what elevates, I think, that's three of you, two of you are on the same team. Yeah. Like how you feel about when Luke has the ball, are you reading, or do you want to get in two-man actions?

You're going to have the best two defenders. Right. So sometimes Austin's going to be the screener. Right, right. Because you're going to have the third defender. Right. And that's what we always be. And that's the scary thing, I think, for the potential.

You know, we still got so much room to grow. But now you look at it, it's okay, myself and Luca who had the two best defenders, you know, every night. There's not many teams with a third defender. And that third defender has to guard Austin Reeves. You know, so we have the ability to interview. change, you know, how we want ball handler, screener, or backside action. You know, we could start an angle pop action where the big comes up, set it, he pops. We got a guy coming out of the slot.

Whoever we want on the backside, it could be, you can do. You know, so we can start with Luca with the ball. I come set the angle pop, I pop, and now I'm going to a DHO with AR. Or AR can start it. I pop, and now I'm going to a corner picker roll with Luca. We have the ability to do so many great things. And then back, what you were saying, to be able to have those guys that can play bully ball,

but also have the brain to be able to manipulate the game as well for the greater good. It's something that, it's the reason why I've been able to do it at this level for as long as I've been able to do it as well. And then obviously, you know, Yolkij and what he's capable of doing every night. And what we've seen with Luca. over his first seven years.

Right. And it's exciting to see Austin grow too. Absolutely. Like he's got the mentality. Like his skills keep getting better, you know, but he has the mentality to like not worry about you to. Right. Attack.

Attack. Yeah. But I love that he's just like, I'm going. Yeah. I'm going. He's not waiting around. He's not waiting around. Like, oh, well, LeBron's over there, you know, like.

No, he's like, I got this too. Like, yeah, yeah, for sure. Like, if you do run that action and your D.H.O. Another corner for Austin, like, he's not waiting to get a switch him through. throw you in the post. If he's got an attack, he's going. You have to play that way. You can't be on your tiptoes. Well, they switch. I got to throw him to the post. You'll get it back. Yeah, you've become the wrong computer then. Then you start over-analysing the game. And now you're not even playing for just full of the game. Now you're over-processing

again. That's what's exciting when I think about the three of you, the way he can feed off of you guys. It's also been interesting to see, you know, when I saw the team come together, I thought, I like the death lineup. You know, you at the five, so to speak, or Rui, whoever you want to say is at the five, you know, Rui, Doe, you know, the three of you on the perimeter. Like, that's an exciting lineup. But it's actually been, the numbers are exciting for Jackson Hayes' minutes. Yeah. So it's been interesting to have that rim runner, that live body, a little bit of length.

Defensively, your numbers have been outstanding. And that's over a 12-plus game period where you had AD, you had no AD and no Luca, and now you have Luca. It's continued through that period. So maybe talk a little bit about, like, the death lineup. versus Jackson versus how you want to defend. Because what it feels to me, especially in the small positional size lineup, you guys are big.

You just don't have a center on the core. Right. You look, I love the way you guys have been in the gaps. Yep. Protecting the pain first, closing out, shifting over. Like, to me, that's the way you guys are tough to play. First of all, I mean, I got to give a big, big shout out and credit to Jackson Hayes, man.

You know, him stepping into that void, losing AD, you know, it's a lot. You know, it's a lot of scoring, a lot of protection defensively, a lot of rebounding, a lot of block shots. But I think Jackson was just like, I didn't, I can't make up for that. And we didn't ask him to make up for that. We needed Jackson to be high energy, you know, be a force on offense, run the big, great screening, lob threat. But he's just made great decisions. He's, you know, he's been able to catch it in the pocket.

and, you know, stay on balance and either be able to dunk at home or find guys on the perimeter. Jackson has been unbelievable in his minutes, and we're going to need that from them. We know, you know, how it unlocks Luca as well when it comes to Pick and Roll with a Lop threat, you know. So having those minutes with Jackson is key. And then with our positioners line up, when you have Luca at 6.7, you know, myself at 6.9, Doe at 6, 8, Rui at 6.9, you know, Austin, 6, 5 and a half. You know, there's no center out there. Positional size.

But we're long, we're big, we're athletic, we're tough, you know, and we're scrappy. Yeah. You know, and to be able to, like you said, be in the gaps, you know, help each other, communicate. You know, even when things break down, you know, we were able to fly around and help one another. You know, there was a play, you know, in the Dallas game. where Kyrie came off a pick and roll from Najee Marshall at the top of the key and he was about to raise for three

and we had two on the ball and Luca was guarding Najee and we wanted him in coverage we didn't want the roller behind but it's Kyrie he came off he's about to shoot the three and Luca went to contest and at the last minute Kyrie dumped it to Najee

and now they have a four on three Dodo was on the ball and instead of Dodo just staying there and just looking at the play when Naji was rolling, I took the roll, and Dodo came out of the blitz from Kyrie and ran all the way to the opposite corner, made PJ Washington drive back into me, we got to stop, and then we got to dunk on the other end, and a pivotal point in the game. And that's what it's about. Like,

it's, you know, it's not about, you know, height and weight and whatever. I mean, shit, you're a fucking prime example of that. It's not about height, how fast you are, how tall you are. It's about the mind, the will, and the communication in the process that you have with your teammates out there. Like, speed of thought, reading. Absolutely. You can see it, you know, I think the way you covered Yilkich, too, the activity, right? The activity around swarming him, crowding him, getting out, though. And I think, like, of course, you want to be organized defensively. You want to stick to your principles. But at the same time, to be an elite defensive team or to be able to be better than maybe the sum of your parts, you have to be able to read off each other. Because not every

plays perfect. Yeah, and losing Anthony Davis, who's a defensive player of the year candidate every year, it was either one or two things for us when we lost them. It's either be the worst defensive team in the league, or now it's like, oh shit, we don't have AD to cover our asses, okay, we got to play even harder now and we got to cover for one another because we can't rely on a blow by every time and then I have a low man and then AD comes out of nowhere and blocks a shot. We have to be on the string in order for us to get stuck.

And we know it's a, we know the game, the NBA is, is a game of the offense. The offense, you know, how the game is reft, how the game is played, it's for the offense. But defense and timely stops, timely stops, one or two, if you could get three stops in a row, in the crunch time, you could crack a game open. There was a tie game for us, you know, in the Dallas game. But we got, was able to get a couple stops, you know, a couple possessions, and then we was able to bump the lead back up. So it's very important. And also the style of your defense.

I think that decision to be in the gaps, to take the pain away. Like I'm a big believer in paying touches. I'm also a big believer in keeping the ball out of the pain, because that's where you get the most quality opportunities. You get in rotations, a lot harder decisions, especially in the modern game, right? Where the spacing created by the way people can shoot,

how many shooters are on the floor, how much you have to cover in space, or when you get to schemes, how stretch those schemes. Are long close outs and rotations, X outs, two great shooters, Right. Right. Right.

Right. I mean, it's 10, it's 10 skilled guys on the perimeter. It has to be like this, right? So to read, to be able to, but it's early, right? Like I, that's the other part about this is that you guys are just getting started. You've shown good signs, but it's really about the will now. No, no, absolutely. And it's about the will and accountability.

Like, it's not gonna, it's, we're not, we're gonna have adverse times. We know, and I know, I know it's gonna happen. I know it's gonna come. I don't know when, but it's gonna come. We have a tough ass stretch again. games. But at the end of the day, we're going to have adverse times. And it's us to be able to be able to handle those adverse times just as well in defeat, just as well as we do and wins, you know, and then be able to hold each other accountable, you know, and not, you know,

feel like, okay, you know, obviously there's a way that you communicate and whatever the case may be. But if we're serious about trying to make a push and try to really compete for for a championship, then it shouldn't, it shouldn't, the message shouldn't be, you know. Honesty communication, being able to say, we got to do better than that, right? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's, it's exciting, man, because I wasn't sure you lose AD, right? Like, he's an anchorstone in any defense, right? He's so damn good. And as good as Luca is, you have to get stops, right? Yeah, I mean, both, I think it works for both franchises, man.

Yeah. You know, it's going to be a process for Dallas. It's definitely going to be a process for us. But for us to be able to get Luca and I know the caliber of player in person that Dallas is getting in AD, so I'm excited for him as well. But also like you said, like you're going to have tough times. Like on the micro level, like you guys shit the bet against Charlotte. Yeah. But maybe you don't spank Denver if you don't shit the bed against Charlotte. You know how that is, right?

You learn more from the losses. Yeah, absolutely. You start to pick out like, I mean, this is unacceptable. These are our non-negotiables. Let's get back to basics. Energy, that's swarming defense we've seen in the last two games with Denver and Dallas. like that was next level, right? So I think that's part of it too,

is going through those process, being able to come back and say, this is a process, right? This is a process. It's not like, today we suck, today we're great, like that you can't plan. And just like, and like you said, it's a, you know, there's a non-negotiable because you, the one thing about you can watch film

and say, okay, you guys have shown, you know, JJ come here like, you motherfuckers have shown me what y'all capable of doing. Y'all have shown it. Here's the tape right here, you're told on yourself. So like, this right here is, it's not negotiable.

It's not negotiable. You know, and to have that type of upfront, up front communication and dialogue, you know, it makes it even better because you're like, we're all competitors. Like, everybody has gotten to the professional level, have gotten there because they've competed their ass off. You know, and if you're able to be on a team

that can have the ability to compete for championships or just compete to be in the process of the, you know, playoffs or go down and stretch, down and stretch, you love that type of communication, you love that type of college building. Growth mindset, too. Yeah, absolutely. I'm excited for you in that respect, too, because I feel like you, with Luca, you're freed up a little bit to lead, to coach on the floor, to dissect, rather than, like, I got

to get 36, 12, and 13, you know? So I think it frees you up a little bit to be like, share your experiences, slow everything down for you, be like, hold on, this isn't going to cut it, you know, like that. You don't always have the, of course, you always play that way. But you had so much on your plate physically that you didn't have the space or the bandwidth mentally to share, like the growth market, like the growth margins that you have to meet. So now I'm excited to see how you can also do that. Me too. Absolutely. All I got to do is take care of myself and then it'll be better for the team. Make sure I continue to get my sleep, take care of my body, you know, do my stretches, all that stuff, all my grounding, all that type of shit.

I'll be fine. But it's definitely, it's great to have a player like Luca, you know, for sure, to be able to. To do what he want to do out there, man. He has that, like you said, he has that mind frame, man, that space. I can see by the smile on your face. Before we, you know, move on, what about this quarterback, wide receiver relationship? We see going, sometimes tight end, button hooking in the lane, sometimes running out, getting it over the top. It looks fun.

No, it's extremely fun. As far as the full court passing thing, being able to run, I haven't had it since Kevin Love. You know, it was different because Kevin Love, You know, he was damn good at it, too, you know, when it comes to the full court outletting and, you know, and now, you know, being, you know, being with a guy like Luca who can, you can tell, you know, certain guys on the, when the ball's in the air, they're already looking at the play before they even get the ball. And, you know, being a former receiver in high school, you know, kind of seeing the ball come and not, you know, showing my hand to the, to the cornerback. You know, I learned that a lot from Randy Moss when I was growing up. He said a lot of times he would run his routes, and he wouldn't raise his hand up too soon. Because if the defender is trailing him, if he raised his hand up too soon,

then the defender know the ball is coming. He would try to wait to the last moment, you know, to put his hand up, and now the cornerback wouldn't see it. And I learned that and watching Randy Moss when I played in high school. And I try to do that in the game as well. In the Denver game, you know, the long pass that Luca threw me had that moment there where I kind of did it to Michael Porter, Jr. I was taken off, and I saw the ball coming, and I didn't want to open my hands up until the ball was right there, and I was able to finish it. Well, I'm going to have my eyes for the opposite.

When you give the fake up and then button hook in the lane, let him run back in front? Yeah. That's great, man. Yo, we back at it, man. We back at it, man. Mind the Game here with Steve Nash, two-time MVP, man. Let's give it a.

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