Mind the Game - How Three-Point Shooting Changed Everything

Episode Date: May 1, 2024

Welcome to Episode 6 of Mind the Game with LeBron James and JJ Redick. This episode was recorded a few weeks and it's our favorite one yet. Here we discuss the evolution of shooting in the NBA and how it's completely changed the way basketball is played. First we discuss how purpose of the modern NBA offense is to put two on the ball and the best players at doing that (Luka Doncic, Nikola Jokic, James Harden). Then the guys dig into early shot clock three-pointers and self created three-pointers like step-back threes and how those have also expanded the modern NBA offense. Which leads us into how difficult it is for defenses today to stop these offenses covering so much space. And finally, JJ and LeBron tough on the catch-and-shoot three-pointers and play a thought experiment where LeBron has to draw up his favorite ATOs for JJ — plays like "Victory", "Oklahoma", and "Clippers Down." Again this is one of the nerdiest episodes of Mind the Game we'll ever do and we can't wait for you all to see it! Subscribe to Mind the Game podcast with LeBron James and JJ Redick today for more NBA insight, analysis, highlights and more.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Follow the best idea yet on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's try to limit it to three hates this time. Three and under. That's the rule. You know what I hate. Yeah, you know what I hate man. Yeah, you know what I hate man. Welcome to Mind the Game with LeBron James and J.J. Reddick,

brought to you by Uninterrupted and Three-Fourgett. Two productions. This is episode six. This episode is all about how three-pointers change the game. And yes, I am biased. And yes, this is my favorite episode we have done so far. We explore pickup points, high pick and rolls, the deep range with which players can shoot with, the stepback three. LeBron's own evolution as a shooter and perhaps closest to my heart, we nerd out on all the different catch and shoot sets that teams run to get shooters open. There is a lot of basketball and shooting in this episode. We recorded this a few weeks ago in Los Angeles prior to the start of the playoffs.

But again, most of the stuff we do is not topical. I hope you enjoy episode six of Mind the Game with LeBron James and J.J. Reddick. Before we get to our conversation, I'm just going to draw. drops in place. All right, a lot of these are catching shoot plays, set pieces, some side out of bounds. This is sort of an end game victory. I don't know

who came up with this. I know I think Brad Stevens ran this when he was the Boston Celtics coach. I know Clay Thompson got a game winner on this season. This is a variation of it. There's different ways you can get to it.

The basic concept here is that you're going to get a screen and a screen here. So this is a back screen along the baseline. As that's happening, this ball is going to be skipped all the way to the corner. This is the shooter, the circled player right here. So he receives a screen. As that ball's in the air, the five man turns back around and screens the shooter. you get an open shot a lot of times there's two reasons why this play can work number one

a lot of times if this is a shooter away from the ball and the ball is over here this defender's going to be in a top lock trying to prevent him from getting the ball so you use that against him by having the re-screen second thing is let's say this defender fights over the top what is everybody's tendency when the ball is in the air. They turn and look at the ball, right? They stop for a second so that re-screen can get the shooter open. Okay, a million different ways to get into a hammer action, but I'll just break it down very simply. The shooter is right here. There's usually a screener somewhere on the baseline. And let's say this is the passer and the big wing. As he drives baseline, this guy will come set a hammer screen for the shooter,

who then catches the pass along the baseline. Like I said, a million different ways to get into this. San Antonio Spurs back when they had Boris St.io, Manu Genoblee. Boris would post up on this block or Manu would catch on this block. And I mean, these guys would literally, to make that skip pass, Boris would jump out of bounds to make that skip pass. If he would drive or post, he would jump out of bounds to make this skip pass. All right.

Pistol. Pistol action is just any interaction in a five-out normally. Normally, you have a five-out setup. That's the ball handler. There's a man here in the corner. This guy can also start here in the wing. It actually doesn't really matter. There's a number of options you can run out of pistol.

This guy can come catch the ball and he can chase it. This guy can catch the ball, keep it, go into a ball screen. For the purposes of this episode, this is a variation of pistol. This would just be a pistol flare. So this guy can come set a ball screen or ghost screen. He comes off the screen. As that happens, the five man sets a ball screen. a flare screen for the shooter.

The ball's right here. You've got a shooter coming off a flare screen. And then the five man can either slip to the basket or continue on set a ball screen. Just different options out of pistol. All right. Indiana slash what the fuck. All right. I'm going to run this two different ways.

So let's say this guy is the shooter. This is a side out of bounds play. Balls right here. This is the five man. This is typically a big wing. So picture this as Jimmy Butler or Kauai Leonard. The inbounder will throw to the five-man. The five-man will reverse it.

As that happens, the shooter will set a back screen on the bigger player. You can either get a switch. The bigger player can punish a mismatch or even if they don't switch, then there's a pick-the-picker. It balls over here. Balls over here now. It's been reversed. This guy goes and sets a rip screen,

a back screen on the bigger player who can cut either way to the basket. Then there's a pick-to-picker for the shooter. I ran this a lot in Philadelphia. And when we would run it, I would sometimes take it out or I would be here. So if I took it out,

say this is me because that ball is reversed this guy comes to set a back screen i give a little nudge and i get the pick right here i don't go off the back screen the other thing the shooter will do you see duncan robinson do this all the time this again this is jimmy butler here's the five all right balls in ball reverses Duncan goes to set the pick he simultaneously just slips out of there and gets the screen from the five man coming up top. Oklahoma, Oklahoma small. Again, every team has different terminologies, but this is generally considered Oklahoma action.

Now, you can run it to either way. It's Golden State. Clay Thompson's over here sometimes. For the purposes of this, this is going to be me running this. So this is a double drag. It starts with a double drag screen. The shooter's the first screen.

so I set a screen ball handler comes off five man sets a screen soon as he sets the screen he then picks me that's oklahoma action so double drag into a pick the picker show you two variations of this let's say you put the shooter as the second guy uh Miami did this a lot last year with max truce golden state does this with clay so this is the five man again As the ball handler comes off this first screen from the five, the shooter will just slip into space. A lot of times this is actually an empty side. So the shooter has this whole side.

Again, shooter, five men. First screen as he comes off, shooter goes to set the screen, slips into space. As the ball handler comes off and the shooter goes, five men can also set a little flare screen right there. Again, every time that you generally see this, this is an empty side. Here's one variation of Oklahoma, Oklahoma small action, that Utah will run for Markinen. So this is Markinen right here.

He'll come up from basically the block. I'll set the first screen. big guy will come up they'll set the second screen ball handler comes off so now you've got marking in here ball handler over here five men's just set the second ball screen he then goes and screens Oklahoma action just a little variation all right Finland we're calling this Finland in some ways this is a variation of Oklahoma small it also has the same sort of concept that Indiana has so floor is spaced this is the shoe right here all right same thing double drag this is typically bigger wing four man double drag

as that happens the shooter will set a back screen on the bigger wing or four man who can look for a lob so now you've got that that guy running for a lob shooters already set the screen ball handler's over here this is the five five then goes and runs a pin away for the shooter. All right, that's Finland for the purposes of this episode. But again, same sort of concepts as Oklahoma, same sort of concept as Indiana. All right, Clipper Down or 15 down. I think LeBron calls it Clipper Down because he stole it from us, but we called it 15 down. And you see a lot of this. All right. So this is the five right here. This is the shooter in the corner. Again, this is, let's say it's me. This is Chris Paul with ball. This is DeAndre Jordan. 15.

15 was the call for our high pick and roll between a 1 and a 5. So 15 down is 15 into a down screen. So D'Andre would come up like he was going to set the pick and roll. Chris would come off. DeAndre would slip it and then go set a pin down for me. Chris then hits me coming off left to right action. Free game. Previous episode we talked about Iverson cuts.

All right. this is iverson rickie don't know why i call it that but i do five man's right here shooters right here ball handler's right here all right the wing is going to run this iverson cut off of these two screens the ball handler is going to hit the wing off of the iverson cut and chase it to the corner the ball's right here again remember the shooter set the first screen Five man's at the second screen on the Iverson. So the shooter's right here. Five just goes and pins away.

Open three up top. It's essentially the same concept as Oklahoma. You're just doing it off of an Iverson cut. Iverson Ricky. Maybe we should call it Iverson, Oklahoma. Hope you guys enjoy this episode. I know I loved having this conversation with LeBron about three-point shooting. This is Mind the Game, Episode 6, How Three-Point Shooting, changed everything.

please hit that subscribe button if you haven't already. Thanks for all the support. We'll be back soon with another episode. There's probably going to be some comments because now there's four bottles of wine here. Yeah, we're talking with two. I understand it's like...

You brought two. Our friend David brought a couple. Thank you for that. I want to talk in this episode about three-pointers. Because we've talked spacing, we've talked some specific actions. I want to get big picture, three-pointers, why it's important, how it's changed, and then get granular with some specific actions that teams run for specific players. I want to start, though, the other night in Brooklyn, you went nine for ten from three.

Yeah, I appreciate it. Thanks for the inspiration, too. I wasn't even in town. I was on spring break with my kids. I thought about you the whole time I was in Brooklyn. Appreciate it. Can you describe that state of being? I mean, I guess only a few of us can describe it.

You being one of them, a few other guys being in that zone. It's a, you know, I used to watch this movie back in a day called Major League. Famous quote off Major League is Chick's Dig the Long Ball. Yes. And it's a different feeling when you're shooting at three ball like that. it's just a I don't know it's a euphoric feeling that

that's different from catching a lob dunk for myself or or getting a zone where you like okay you know I'm in the post my post game is working in but when you when you shooting that three ball at a high clip like I was doing in Brooklyn

it was like that was one of the best feelings for sure there's a there's a like a flow state attachment I feel like when you're shooting threes because I play golf and golf is about muscle memory

muscle sequencing and when you're shooting a basketball it is about that muscle memory muscle sequencing and it's not always right that's the thing that's the thing I don't think people understand is like I can shoot

you can shoot eight threes and make four of them and you're not in the flow state subsequently I can shoot eight threes and make four of them and feel like every shot was effortless. There's a big difference to me.

I remember specific games where I would shoot six for 11 from three and be like, it didn't feel right tonight. Why is that? Because I understand exactly what you're saying. You know exactly what I'm saying. Yeah. Because when you are in that,

when you are in that rim of shooting, sometimes it doesn't even feel right and it goes in and you're like, what the fuck was that? You just keep going with it. It's like, I mean, the other night in Brooklyn, to know everyone I even I took a couple of threes in Brooklyn that I don't take on a game-to-game basis right corner gather right corner and then the left step back gather yeah

those were stupid yeah I was just I was just feeling really good you know I love New York man Joe said Joe Missou said something the other day and I it was like it's pertinent to this conversation I think he was talking about Al Horford and how one of the reasons Al has had longevity and is still an impactful player is because he has evolved with the game. You think about Al early in his career with Atlanta. He's shooting heavy dose of mid-range.

He's playing drop coverage, guarding fives. Then he becomes a three-point shooter. He becomes a switch defender. He becomes a high post hub. Those years with IT, he was a high post-hub. And so in some ways, the three-point shooting with you, you have evolved and adapted with the game. Has any coach, front office person, analytics person, like on staff,

have they ever came to you and talked to you about analytics and shot profile with you? No. Never had that discussion. Man, fuck, no. No. I mean, through my, I mean, listen, through my, you know that those discussions are happening. Yeah, for sure. Of course they are. Certain players are told. Oh, yeah, for sure. That do not take those shots anymore. No, because I'm, I've always been in a very efficient basketball player. I'm not a guy to go out and cast a bunch of shots. I try to get, you know, I won't say the best shot, because you can never get, you know, every possession, you can't always get the best shot. But I've always tried to figure out ways on the floor where I, I,

I could, that possession maybe get the best shot. And sometimes you may have to force one into the shot clock or, you know, you may feel like you, you know, in a good rhythm, you may force one, whatever case may be. But I've never been too much of a pull-up jump shooter off the dribble, mid-range shooter. I did a little bit early on in my career, early in my career, you know. But as I've gotten older, I've been more in the post, mid-range,

as far as the Carl Malone area on the block and now I've expanded my game to the three-point line over the last few years where I feel like pretty much unguarable. Yeah. Yeah. I wish I knew what that feeling was like.

My second year in Philly. So my first year in Philly, I shot, God, a fucking, 42-something percent from three. And average a career high. a measly 17, but I'm very proud of that 17 points a game. And, you know, I was a guy, second half of my career, I had a home base in the off-season.

So I'd go train, and I wasn't around the team, and I'd come back right before training camp. When I got back that second year, I had our analytics guy, said, I want to meet with you. And he, like, showed me all these different charts and stats about, like, if you stop shooting mid-range and start shooting more threes. I'm going to be honest with you, Braun.

I was a great mid-range shooter. A great mid-range shooter. For sure. And even I was told, shoot more threes. So that second year, I took eight a game, which was my career high. Right. And I averaged over 18 a game. But my efficiency dropped to 39.7% or whatever it was.

But it's still mathematically. This is the thing people in our... Mathematically, it was better for me to shoot more at 39%. percent, then shoot those middies at 49 percent or whatever I was doing. That's the wild thing about the NBA. Yeah, I definitely, I mean, I can see here and tell you that I definitely have some of our coaches on our coaching staff. They want me to shoot more threes.

They're encouraging. They're encouraging me to shoot more threes. I can't do it. I can't get to that. I can't get to that. Is it a prime thing? Is it an ego thing? No, it's not an ego thing.

It's like, I'm not, I'm not. putting enough pressure on the defense if I'm shooting 12 to 14 3s a game. You know, if I'm shooting 12, 14 3s a game, I feel like I can hit six or seven of them. You know, if I'm fucking off off, then, you know, three or four of them. But I can shoot high clip if I'm shooting 14 a game. I'm going to get in the rhythm. But I'm not putting pressure on the defense. And that's not me.

Right. I got to put pressure on the defense. Like if we have the guys already on our team shooting a bunch of threes, which okay like I love that it has to be some of there has to be some pressure on the rim I have to put some fear in a defense that you're not about to make me just shoot all jump shots even if I'm shooting a will so it's a great point because I think certain players and you're one of them that can do it with your drives Luca same way James and Houston same way with his ISOs and his drives, Duncan Robinson, a different way. But certain players can cause an overreaction.

Oh, for sure. And I want to get into that later on. But that's where this conversation is going. But I want to do some stats first. I just want to read you some stats. Okay. So in 2013, 2014, which was the first year of the tracking era, yeah, league average 21.5 three point attempts per game. This year, it's 35 three-point attempts per game. Those numbers are almost 14 more threes a game. Those numbers are as of April 3rd. The Rockets in 2013, 2014 took 26.6-3s a game. That was number one. Grizzlies took, the Grit and grind Grizzlies took 14 threes a game. They were last in the league. This year, the Nuggets are the number 30 team in three-point attempts per game. And they shoot 31 a game.

You guys are 29. Orlando's 28. Pistons are 27. So obviously, threes have gone up. Not all threes are created equal, though. Here's some other data that I just, I love this. There's 22 players this year that have taken 150 or more threes off the dribble. Luca's number one.

He's taken 497. Again, as of April 3rd. In 2014, 2015, 2015, only 4. four players took 153s or more off the dribble. The interesting thing is there's been no change in effective field goal percentage from those numbers. It's still right around 55%. Pick and roll, it's literally the same thing.

16 players have taken 150 or more pick and roll threes this year. Luke is number one at 361. Six players took 153s or more in pick and roll in 2014-2015. The effective field goal percentage is the same. So by prioritizing the three offenses have become more efficient. What does the threat, this is the overreaction part. What does the threat of Steph Curry in a high pick and roll, Damien Lillard in a high pick and roll, Trey Young in a high pick and roll, Luca in a high pick and roll, what does that do?

How does that bend the defense? How does that cause the overreaction? Two on the ball. That's a numbers game. Two on the ball. If you got great screen setters, Draymond, Capella, you know,

whoever Luca is going to have, either if it was Dwight Powell, now, you know, Daniel Gafford. Lively. Lively. He's learned it quick. Yeah, he has. He's learned it quick.

If you have a great screen setter and you have a laser like that who shoots, like you said, over 300 off the dribble, pick and roll threes, that's the chain reaction that's why you have all these guys

that shooting career higher percentages with these lasers than they ever do with anybody else because it's the chain reaction the numbers game is automatic if you're not up on the screen

you're late you're going to have two on the ball and those guys are good enough great enough to play in the pocket and now it's four on three and we talked about this last time Draymond Green's

biggest asset offensively for Golden State is his ability to get Steph open, Clay open, but then play in the pocket where his asset is four on three and now his IQ kicks in. That's the threat.

If you can't cause a trigger, then everyone's going to be at home. That's the name of the game. How can you cause a trigger? Pick and roll, pin down, DHOs, split game. Whatever it is,

your portfolio of your team and your player, how can you cause the trigger? Because once the trigger happen, that's when you become successful. Yeah. Last year in the playoffs, Anthony Davis, who you've given glowing reviews on this podcast about his ability to be in multiple places at once. Golden State Strategy became high pick and roll with Steph Curry. We have to get Anthony Davis away from the basketball. from the basket. Right. So going through that

and those adjustments that you guys made throughout that series because I think an important part of this too was they essentially were playing two non-shooters with Draymond and Kavana.

And then to open up space, it was something that in terms of volume, Steve Kerr and Steph Curry had never ran that amount of volume of pick and rolls prior to that series. So what were

sort of the adjustment that you guys made once they had success with that. So we had to start switching because we won. Like I always keep saying, once Draymond gets into the pocket, it is very, very, very hard to now reel it back. You can't allow De Dei to play in the pocket because he's too damn good. And also what you can't not do at the same time,

if you're the big X5 or X4 in your garden to pick a room, you can't be late on Steph Curry's pick and roll because it's going to be a great screen and Steph is coming off clean. If you have the personnel, which obviously a lot of teams don't, that's why not many teams have beat Golden State in the playoffs and a playoff series

have the ability to switch. You talk about being late on a Steph Curry pick and roll? So this was, I fucking hated this play. I hated this play. And when I was on the clippers, they would just kill us with this. So this oftentimes would be a guy, let's say it's clay. So you're not going to switch.

This is the five man. He's going to set a down screen at this angle. Try to clip the five. Try to clip the five. We've talked about this before. Biggs are terrible navigating screens. For sure. Dwork.

So all of a sudden, Draymond, Andrew Bogot, they've now created separation up here. And they're flying. Yes. This defender right here, and again, I'm sorry for drawing the X as his offensive players, but it's just how I do it. This defender is naked. He's on an island. He doesn't know what's going on.

Meanwhile, he's like this the whole time. So now this big is behind this play. He's five, six steps behind this play. As Steph comes off here, again, he can shoot this three, right? He's got the separation required. But oftentimes what would happen is this overreaction from the big to get out? Step does like this? And just drops it in the pocket.

Drop it in the pocket. It's a four and three. Yep. And now Clay has worked this way out here. You're afraid to leave Clay. And you got Andre Godala, Andrew Wiggins, Kumanga. You know what's going on. Yeah.

So obviously Steph can shoot this three. Yep. But as this big is frantically trying to get out here. Yeah, he's done. The overreaction to the thread of this. Yep. He's going to overcomit, whether it's a shot fake or whether it's just getting out. this defender right here, he's chasing.

He's chasing over. So now the big has a free run. Pocket Pass. And Draymond pocket pass lob to one of those athletes, you know, and it's over with it. I mean, this is the stuff, this is the stuff, though, that in different ways, you know, Damien Lillard gets this, Trey Young gets this. It's, I'm sure there's other guys I'm forgetting, but it's this idea of. these high pick and rolls,

because now we see, like, I'm going to draw it correctly this time. Do you have a dry raceboard today? Now we see pick-up points just inside half-court. Yep. Again, you're asking, first of all, you're asking this guard to navigate. They call it the four-point line now.

Yeah. And secondly, Bigs are not accustomed. They can't. Here's the, this is the thing. I just want to point out. Because I was talking to somebody about this the other day.

And it goes back to like the five-out concept. Yep. It's like I love, I love watching basketball period. And I love watching any era. I watch games on YouTube. It's like I wish I could have seen some of these players in person. They're educational and informative, Braun. They're educational and informative.

Like, we would never, we would never see. see this where you know an offensive team is going this way and two players run to the block we'll never see that right so now yeah that's over with that's that's that was the requirement yeah it was for a big that this is the area even early in my career this was the requirement that's that's the area you have to cover yeah last year's playoff series against the warriors is a great example you're now asking anthony davis to cover all over here and by the way we need you to get back and protect the room. The point in all this is, again, going back to just spacing and five out.

Yeah. Okay? So you're taking, sorry, I'm oscillating between X and O's offense and defense. This is X5 right here. Yep. He's got a no and an X. But if you're taking, in your case, by the way, because I've looked up the data on this, you're taking a top five to 10 rim defender all the way out of here.

you're then relying on some of, no offense, some of the worst rim defenders by percentage in the NBA this season. That is the challenge of a modern defense. That is. Because there's enough guys, as I just went through this, the numbers, there's enough guys night to night that are shooting out of high pick and roll.

Yeah, and Dallas have two of them. Yeah. Okay, Luca comes off the pick and roll, the big's up. And then he swings it to the Kyrie. The big got to get all over there and do the same thing. Yeah. That's the challenge. Yeah. That's what Boston is so good.

That's why you're afraid to even have a big up instead of just switching everything. But then they have so many great one-on-one players. Yeah. You know, so it's like, what do you do? Like with Tray Young, it's like you don't really want Capella to get behind the defense because that's his niche. He blocks shots it on the other end. He creates havoc by getting a good screen using the speed to either really,

sometimes don't even screen because he know the big is going to be up so I'm going to slip behind the defense you know so it's like that is the difficult

challenge for coaches here's another interesting thing that I found you need the other pin there you're going here or you're going I'm going to go here and say yeah yeah

here's another interesting thing I found about about threes so let's call 18 to 24 seconds on the shot clock let's call that early shot clock okay

first six seconds of the shot clock in 2014, 2015, the average team for this season took 322 total threes in the first six seconds of the shot clock. Okay. What is this? You said 13, 14, 14? Yeah, 14, 15.

Five teams attempted below 200 total threes for the season in the first six seconds of the shot clock. Yep. Last season's data, that number was up by 100 total threes, basically 420 total threes. half the league attempted 400 or more total threes in the first six seconds of the shot clock that's the other thing that has changed the most is when you get a defensive stop and I don't care where the fuck you are on the court when you get this stop where are people running yeah run wide that's all you're wide run wide to the three point line okay right so these early early shot clock

threes. You know what the average, effective field goal percentage on that is? Same thing, 55%. Really?

It's a good shot. It's a good shot. I can't wrap my head around it. Am I too old school? I want to say old school, but am I two still like in my ways of... Hold on a second.

I'm going to give you something here, though. See what past shots? I'm going to give you something there, though. I'm going to give you something. You got guys running wide. right of the corner this is you with the ball yeah this is yannis with the ball yeah this is jama ramp in the ball space what does that give you so much space early early attacks there's a reason that you motherfuckers are averaging like 10 fast break points early attacks yeah somebody

told me i was second and fast break points the other day who did we just play oh no it was uh it was toronto yeah one of their players said man what the hell are you doing how are you second because they I think they played the night before so they had a walk through on their court and they assume it was in the court open, I get on the court and one of their players is like, how the hell are you

second and fast break points? It's because this is where Dilo's running, dude. And this is where Austin's running. Dilo like to stop the little, right? He's like a stop. He's like a break. Yeah, he's a break guy. Yeah, he loves the break.

But definitely, Rui, A.R., yeah. TP, they definitely get into the corners. So the volume of threes. Yeah. The volume of threes. because we're talking about not all threes are created equal. But in some ways, the types of threes that offenses are generating are creative equal. They have essentially the same value.

If we're looking at it through analytics, these type of threes have the same value. The last one I want to get into before we get into just some ways to generate threes for catch-and-shoot guys. The other one, and I don't have the data in front of me right now, but I looked it up in January, is we've seen it James Harden and ISO Luca and ISO Kyrie and ISO

right the stepback three the individual create Steph Curry the individually created stepback three going back to the same tracking era

last 10 years roughly 33% is the average value or you know the average shooting percentage of a step back three

10 years ago. Now it's a little over 35%. So it's gone up two percentage points, and the volume has gone up. Guys are able and willing Jason Tatum. They're able and willing to take that shot not only more frequently, but at a higher clip. I'm trying to explain here why offenses are good. Offenses are good and very hard. This shot is worth one point. 5 more than this shot if you can make it if you can make it if you can make it so what happens when no the value of this what happens the value of this versus the value of this right so what happens when why do you think you guys a Houston Rockets missed 25 or 28 straight threes have you seen it happen since I have not how many

Did they miss it? 27. 27 straight threes. 27. And they kept shooting them. Yeah. It's not like all of them was only three-point shooters. It's not like they have fucking five Craig Hodges on their team or five Steve Kerr's on the floor where that's all they can do is shoot threes.

They had guys that can, Eric Gordon, you can get into the paint. James Hardin, you can get to the paint. But you're making a valid point. But why? You're making a valid point. And I want to acknowledge your point. You still have to be a basketball player. Thank you.

You still have to read the game. That's all. That's all I ask. That's all I ask. That's all I ask. Time and score. There's a time and place where analytics should be like, get the fuck out. Yeah.

Okay. There was a coach that told me this year. He's like, you know, he talks all the time about it, like managing the game. And he's over there and he's looking at the box score during timeouts. And he's looking at how many threes have we made an attempted versus how many threes the other team has made it attempted. What is their star player shooting from two? What is the time and score? Do I need to double?

All of these things are being like equated or calculated in real time. So there is some game management involved. It's not just like, oh. So you're telling them I need to shoot more threes? Is that what you telling me? You're doing fine. You're doing fine. But I would say this, LeBron, you guys, your offense for the first part of the season was not a good offense.

No, we couldn't shoot. The second you started making degrees, you became a top five or six offense. But we always said, like, the law of averages is going to even itself out. The first month and a half, two months, we couldn't hit the side of a fucking cow's ass from three point. We couldn't. So, you know, but like you just said, we're 29th and three points attempted, but people are complaining while we're top five in free throw. attempts because that's what we do. I think there's every team you have to coach differently, every team based on personnel.

For sure. Absolutely. The fact that all of a sudden, D-Lo became a high volume, high-efficiency three-point shooter halfway through a season, started back in January. Yeah. That adds value to the offense. Yeah, for sure. Your free-throw thing, by the way, I'm not going to get into the discourse right now about

the foul thing. But there are certain teams that foul more than others, and there are certain teams that put pressure on the rim more than others. Yeah, for sure, for sure. And if you can not foul and you can get to the free throw line, that creates an advantage. In the same way that making and taking more threes versus making and taking less threes creates an advantage. Well, I mean, Mike Dantonie was on to something.

He knew before this shit even got cracking like it is now. Oh, give Daryl some credit. You give Daryl some credit. I went in for a shoot around one year. This was like early, early stuff, right? And like this is public. So like this is not like, but I just remember going and do a shoot around one year. And for some, oh, I know what it was.

Keith, Keith, let me use the cold tub in their locker room. And after shoot around. And I go in and I walk by the locker room and they had like LED boards above their locker with like their true shooting percentage. Like all that shit. And I was like, oh man, just a constant reminder of whether or not you. or ready you're good that's amazing get your ass on the practice court right now and get some fucking shots up all right that's funny that's good the last type last type of three we've talked

about getting two on the ball four on three yeah a lot of times that creates swing swing yeah get in the paint draymond kicks it out those are catch and shoot threes yeah stand still catch and shoot threes yeah i want to talk about a different type of catch and shoot threes and that is the movement catch and shoot three let's hypothetically say say, I'm on your team. Yep. And I'm four for five from three. It's the second quarter, under three-minute timeout.

We've got a nine-point lead trying to turn in a double-figures, our ball. You've got to draw up an ATO for me. This is an A-T-O? Yeah. And we're a pretty good team. I'm on your team. Yes. Okay.

Yeah. Okay. And we have a good screening five, man. We have a good screening five, man. Okay. Perfect. You want to draw it up? Yeah, sure.

Okay. Let's put, I'll be here. All right. Yep. We'll put the five men here. Okay. You know what? No, I'm going to start over.

I'm going to put you here, JJ, to start. All right. I'm put the five men here, same side as the ball is being taken out of. Okay. So that's the one or the two. All right. And then two men is right here. Well, I'm the two men.

Okay, so put the three here. Three's there. All right. So on the slap of the ball, simultaneously, JJ, you're going to come to the ball. ball. You're four for five, right? Yeah. Okay. So the five man's going to screen you bring you to the ball. Okay. At the same time, the three man's going to set a cross screen for me go underneath. Okay. All right. As soon as that happened, the one is going to throw it over the top to me.

I have to catch it over the top. And as soon as I catch it over the top, because your man is so afraid of you coming towards the ball, what is the first thing a defender does when the ball turns his head? Turns his freaking head. As soon as that happened, re-screen for you, Jay. Yep. Victory. Victory.

We're going to get you a great... Victory. No, Brad Stevens, victory. That's what it's called. This is... Yeah. I've run it before, too. Who'd you run it with?

Do you remember who the shooter was? I ran it for... Oh, Danny Green before. Yes. Yes. Because Kerr ran it for Clay for a game winner. I can't remember who was last year or this year.

Yeah. I like that one. This is a great one. I have another one. Chris Finch. Chris Finch loves this one. I have another. I don't know that he's run it,

but he showed me this when I was with them in New Orleans. You take the ball out now. Five. Me? Four. And the three. Okay.

Let the slop of the ball. Pinned down for me. Okay. I catch it. As soon as that happened, I'm with the four of the workers' weight underneath and just stay there. It just look very, like he don't know what the hell's going on. Obviously, you already know what's about to happen.

I know what's going to happen. I bring the ball across. This guy, X3 slips it. Go screen. Yep. I take off all the way around. Here comes the hammer. Let me get everybody set up.

Yes, sir. Get everybody set up. Yep, JJ's there. The four has worked his way underneath. Yep. I've taken off. Three's here. Yep, three's there.

I'm taking off at the same time. He turns around. Your guy's paying attention to the damn ball. Let me set a nice hammer for you. I wish it was flipped. So you can see. You know what's funny? I go left right here.

When I ran hammer action, I like shooting it this way. Really? Yeah. Why? I'm not sure. I'm dead serious, bro. I'm not sure. Really?

Well, we've, I like the defense on this side of it. You didn't get no leg kick on this one, though, on this side. You didn't get a leg kick on this. You know what I'm thinking about? I think one of the reasons. Those are two great plays, by the way. The five as you drove would dive towards the rim. I didn't draw the five.

That's what the five was here. What's interesting when you think about this, so if you remember San Antonio, they would post Boris Diao right here. Correct. And he would legitimately drive and jump out of bounds. Yes, you do it. And they would do it with Manu too, but Manu would do it over here because he's left-handed. So I think that's one of the reasons I always ran it this way when we run it. And I think that we stole that from San Antonio at one point.

I don't remember what year it was, but Mike Dunlevy was on our team. It's one of my, I think it's one of my greatest assists I've ever had. And we ran a hammer action for Mike Dunlevy versus Orlando, I believe it was, at home in Cleveland. And I wrapped it around based on for Dunlevy to hit a three. It was kind of, you know, it's pretty cool. I like that. Hammer action. Hammer action.

Yes. You see it all the time, end game. and a lot of times teams will run it yeah um in fact i'm gonna step up first i'm gonna i'm gonna actually just kind of discombobbobulate things but teams will run it we'll set a step up or whatever and you just turn the corner let's say this guy cuts the middle five men peels out times it of course it yep and then i get the hammer action yep it's that weak side I don't even know how to describe the screen,

because it's not really a back screen. It's a hammer screen. When I was in Cleveland, we will have, we will have the guy that we wanted to catch the ball on the hammer screen, he would take it out. Yep. And then we would have the other shooter, you know, in this angle. So they would actually, he would actually slip this screen.

And the shooter will go here. And my first look is the shooter here. and if he's not open then I have the other shooter because the five is trailing he's going to clean that up for the other shooter coming all around

so I will look at the hammer action if he's not there you do the whole fundamental no I know exactly what you're saying the other thing that happens here so let's say this is you driving for the hammer action let's just say it's the one

that you play this little pistol 21 action with and I've taken the ball out and come off here the other shooters right here here. So what teams will do as this screen happens, let's say the five men, you know, after he sets the hammer, he comes and gets up here to set this second one, what teams will do sometimes is top lock this. This slot cut actually ends up being open. Or sometimes, depending on where the five or the four sets this hammer screen, right? He just, it's a quick slip to the

basket. So teams, if they know they're switching or they know, they got their radar up for hammer, they will actually, this could be the first option, this slip. And I'll even take it even further What you're saying You're down three If you get a guy that slips to the rim I guarantee Even if the coach is said in the timeout

No threes If you get one guy to slip to the rim There will be one guy that will have a reaction You get one guy You throw the ball to him slipping to the rim There's going to be one defender X1 or 5 That will relax and you just use that as a, oh, I got you just to kick out for a three.

Right. When you've told everybody in a timeout, everybody stayed a fuck home, we're up three. If they get a two, okay, all right. That's the reaction of watching the ball. That is. Turn your head. He made the pass. Exactly.

All right. Here's another one. I actually thought you were going to draw this one up, but it's fine. I'll get to Paul George in a second. You're taking it out. Yep. Five man. Let's say this is the three.

This is the four. And this is me. Your son's team, they're running this type of shit hot already. Yeah. Oh, I'm going to drop one of my favorite plays at a second. And we run this, literally. So slap of the ball, four man, he's gone. Yep.

He's gone over here. Yep. He empties out. Yep. Okay. Ball goes into five, passes to three. Is this one? What the fuck?

Is that what you call it? Ripscreen's at a pin now? Yeah, I call it Indiana. Yeah. After Paul George. Yeah. I think Phil Jackson, those guys call it, what the fuck? I'm being guarded by probably a 6-4 guy.

Yeah. Probably not the second best defender. You're getting guarded by, you know, whoever. So I'm going to set this rip screen right here. Yes. They don't want to switch. Nope. So potentially you get a lob, layup, dump, whatever.

Yep, your guy's going to help just a little bit. As soon as that happens. Yep. Yeah, I think feeling those guys caught it what the fuck You call it Indiana? I called Indiana Brett Brown used to run this for me And I, you know what's weird

I would actually be in both positions So let's say this is Robert Covington And this is Joelle So when the ball would go over there I would act like Cove would come try to set this rip screen I would act like I would come off And just push off and come off Joe

I'm glad you said push off too that was It's very key to the viewers It is definitely The other thing that happens. What about Clipper Down? Oh, we're going to get to that. The other thing that's going to happen, let's say I'm just, I'm still playing somehow.

So I come and what do I do? I slip out of there, right? I act like I'm going to set the rip screen and slip out of there. I get it that way. I think, don't quote me on this. The reason I call it Indiana is because of Brett Brown. But I think the reason Brett Brown calls it Indiana

is because of Paul George. Really? I was at a Clippers game with my kids over spring break. They were playing the Sixers. And he took it out, and they ran it. And I was like, oh, it's... Paul George took it out. Indiana.

And he faked going to make the three at the top of the key, right side. He faked like he was going to go to the rip screen and just bounce back. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great play. Yeah. It's a great play. All right, here's one for you.

So, this is CP right here. Yep. This is Clay. and this is Trace Jackson Davis. Yep. All right, so if CP comes off of clay and comes off of Trace Jackson Davis,

what is it going to happen? A rescreening for clay. Yeah. Yeah. Oklahoma. Oklahoma. Or Oklahoma Small. I call it both things.

Yes, it's okay. I call it both things. We're talking the same language, yes. My assumption here also is that we call it Oklahoma because of Kevin Durant. Really? I assume so. I could be wrong on that.

I mean, there's no other reason to call Oklahoma. It's not like, I mean, they didn't have a team there before. You know, we're not going to use the word hate. We're not going to use the word hate today. We're not going to use the word hate. You and I dislike, and as an offensive player in this position, because I ran this a ton of New Orleans, and we had various of this with the clippers that I'll get to in a second.

But if you're guarding Clay Thompson in this spot, spot. Yep. And you're not switching. Well, hold on. You can do whatever you want. Let's say you do switch it. Like, why are you not getting to a top lock? It's 2024. This is, if Clay Thompson sets a pick, he's going to get another pick. Why are you not top? It drives me crazy. Because they don't watch basketball. It's that simple. I've realized. that they only watch highlights and they don't watch basketball. If Clay is underneath the charge block,

are you thinking he's going to stay down there? End of every quarter. End of every fucking quarter. Dude. What's going to happen right here as CP comes off the screen? Pen in. Why will nobody stay on this side

and force his ass to other? the way i don't know i'm not sorry clay i'm not trying to give away all the secrets but it is on the scouting report and it is on film so it's on a scouting report it's on film it's work for 10 years yeah so like it's on like the championship DVD that comes out after the season when you win it like uh they don't watch basketball all right so marking and and both clay they do this one a lot too so who lorry larry mark it's one of my favorites he's on he's been a lebron supporter for a long time he wears my shoes does he really yeah until this year i I think Nike came out with a new shoe, and then they,

we got some talks to do out there in the Nike world. But I love that guy. He's so good. We'll run it with Clay first. We're going to say this is Looney. Yep. And this is Steph. Yep.

So, you know what? I'll go with how they're playing now. This is Draymond. Yeah. So this is essentially same sort of idea, Oklahoma. But Clay Thompson's the second screener. Yep. So as Steph comes off this screen and comes to Clay, he slips.

Yep. And Draymond or Kavana either flares or they dive. Yep. And he's empty side. All the room in the world. Steph brings it over here, just a little skip pass. And if he doesn't have the three, Draymond dives to the post. Throw it to the post and we go back to split post.

Split post. Mark and N will also be in this position. So this is J.C. John Collins, and let's say this is Kianti George. Marketing will be here, and he'll do the same thing. He'll slip, get to space. And that's very difficult because you've got JC as the first screener setting a flare for marketing that's getting guarded by X4 or 5.

We already established that Biggs cannot navigate screens. It's not their job. But they need to learn. This was a favorite one of mine. So this is a slight variation. I think this is called Finland. Okay, because why? Maybe because of marketing.

I don't know. But in my edit, it was called Finland, and I was like, oh. It has to only be because of marketing. That's it. I didn't call it Finland. Oh, man, this is BG. We're going to say this is Matt Barnes or Lucan Bamute. This is DJ.

Yep. This is CP. So, again, it's the same thing. It's a double drag, right? But as that double drag happens... Yep, you send the flare. I send a rip screen for the lob. For BG, and then DJ turns around, cleans me up.

Yep, yep, yep. Right? We got a lot of action out of that. Pesia. It's kind of a version of Pesia. Oh, you call it Pesia. Yeah, because of Pagiaziozioz. I figured.

Yeah, because I believe he used to run that same set, Rip C Webb to the Post, and then Vladia come, or Brad Miller or, you know, whatever. All right, basic stuff. But... We're talking basic stuff? No. Yeah, we can start. No, I'm not saying that stuff's all basic, but...

No, it's not. The most basic way to get, let's say it's Markinen over here in the corner, the most basic way, obviously, is just a pin away. This is a pin away, for sure. So the guards over here, one's over here, just a pin away. And I think... teams and their defense varies so much now. Like when I played, let's say, and this was DJ,

and C.P. would give them this action, the away action. Go get them, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Two things would happen. I would either get top-locked, or if they were on my outside shoulder, they would lock and trail as this pin away happened, and I would curl, right? It's pretty simple stuff. What happens now, though, what I think a lot of teams do is the screen-to-screen, the guy's screening, it's just positionally, it's different.

So this could be Lori Markin, and this could be Jordan Clarkson. The other day, this was, I think it was Jalen Brown. This was against the Pelicans, and this was Christops. and Valanchunis was in the middle of paint. He set a flare for him. And Chris Stops went and they top locked and J.B. just screened in. And KB got a wide open three.

So I think the away stuff, teams don't run it as, like, what'd you guys do for Corver when you had him in Cleveland? A lot of that. A lot of a way. Yep, a lot of a way. Early in transition, go get him.

You know, you bring it on one side of the biggest trail and go get him. Early whites. Do you remember in Atlanta with that team how high they would set those away screens. Yeah, he wouldn't even cross half court. They was already going to get him. Because what happens?

Like, I'm guarding Kyle Corver. And Scattern Report rule, you lock and trail. You chase him over the top. All the way at half fucking court. Right. Right. They don't want you to shoot it. And so they would literally set these picks.

At an angle, too. Not just straight across because the guy can. No, no, no. It'd come down at this angle, right here, this high in transition. Yep. It was insane. It was insane. That's what they had like four all-signers that year.

It was insane. Norm Powell, by the way, here's another example. Norm Powell stagger away. Yep. That's an easy one. Yep. Stagger away just means there's two. Yep.

Two screens. Norm Powell will get that. Houston would run that for Eric Gordon. That's how he got a lot of his threes. Yep. Off the move. And then, of course, which, again, I hate to use Larry Malkin again,

but the jazz are a great example of this. Let's say this is Clarkson, and this is John Collins. You use the shooter as the first screener. Yep. He goes to pin. He curls. He curls.

And then he goes to clean them up. I say all this, by the way. I say all this because I went to, because I went, on a podcast a couple weeks ago. And I got, I don't want to say accused, but I was referred to as a catch and shoot player. I was referred to as a catch and shoot player. And when I think of catch and shoot players, I think of standstill guys. But I guess he, there's the movement part. All of this action, all of this stuff, and as teams are getting smarter,

the Will Hardy's of the world, the Joe Missoula's of the world, as they're getting smarter about how teams are matching up when and where to screen, it just makes it harder to guard off of all of these off-ball actions. Yeah, and you're dealing with the best players in the world, the greatest players in the world. And if you happen to get not only the greatest talent in the world in your team, if you're able to get some guys that have some IQ about it as well,

it unlocks even more. we got one more and then we'll sort of move on because you brought it up earlier this was my favorite play that I've ever had ran for yeah clipper down yeah for sure 15 down that's what you call we called it clip her down in cleveland we stole it after me yeah after us after us after you and we did the jr smith uh so this is just 15 yeah which is a 1-5 pick and roll between cp and dandre georgia which is fluff tell which is fluff Doesn't mean anything. CP would just dribble out.

DJ would slip the screen. This guy in a normal single side pick and roll would be responsible. He's off the body because his the ball's going away from him. Yep. like the teaching. You just take advantage of the teaching. As the ball goes away from you, you get off the body. All right, he's off the body. I come around. I mean, those years, you led the league in first quarter scoring. play was I joined the Clippers in 1314 yeah 13 14 I played I think the first 17

games and Marcus Cousins I went up for offense rebound I was trying to out knock allow I was trying to catch one off the rim this is when I was still a little bouncy Antoine Jameson shot a little little like you know how remember Antriman Jameson yeah for sure where he he would like elongate he so he shot one of those shots off the backboard and I was in the left I was in the left I was in a left corner I was like oh I'm gonna time this oh this yeah so I kind of I kind of jumped and demarcus you know he's a big guy I'm not he just kind of gave me a little forearm shiver in the air so anyways I fell and I broke a bone in my wrist and tore a ligament and so my second game back

we play the maps and we're down like 17 points with four minutes to go and we go we we make a comeback, and we cut it to, I think, three, and we call an ATO, and it was, BG was in the game because we didn't, we want DJ to get fouled on offense. So BG was the five, and we ran 15 down. For the first time, end of game. Monta, of course, you know, he's off the ball. I curled around, hit three, and then it just became a staple of our offensive system. But it all came out of an ATO. It wasn't like we practice it and practice. We just ran it as an ATO one time. It came about it. The coolest thing about that, I always tell people this. C.P. and DJ and me, it was all a read. We never called 15 down unless it was against like the Philadelphia

76ers at the time. No, I mean that. It makes sense. If I'm playing against you or I'm playing against Rondo or somebody, and we call 15 down. Yeah, we're on top of that. No. Yeah, yeah, we're on top of that. Right, right, right. So if I run to the left corner and I see CP called DJ up, I'm just waiting. Yep.

DJ might roll. Yep. DJ might come do the down screen, but it was all a reed. Yeah, you're just sitting there. It was all a read. We never, we never would call it. It was pretty interesting. Not it is.

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