Mind the Game - LeBron on His Lakers Outlook, Adapting to Alphas and Skinny Luka

Episode Date: October 8, 2025

Mind the Game returns for its third season as hosts LeBron James and Steve Nash dive even deeper into the game they love. In this episode, LeBron and Steve imagine what it would be like if they were teammates in their primes. Then they get into what goes into LeBron's offseason at this age (spoiler... it's a lot of golf). Then the guys dive into their main subject of the episode which is, when two alphas must adapt to each other. Steve discusses playing with Amar'e Stoudemire and Dirk Nowtizki while LeBron talks about playing with Dwyane Wade, Kyrie Irving and Anthony Davis. And finally, the guys dive deep into the Lakers upcoming season, what they expect and how impressed they've been with Luka Doncic in Euroleague.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Coming up on this episode of Mind the Game. Another stuff I got, Iverson, too, is like you said, you like the screen. So you're here. And JD, unfortunately, we got him bringing the ball up. Depending on who's Garneau. Depending on who's Garneau. I actually wanted to challenge the mine with something else, and I actually picked up golf a little bit.

Mike Dan Tony used to say to us when we got tired, you guys want to, you're tired? Oh, you want to go and get in a wrestling match with these guys? No, you want to just run up and down and get them tired. I feel like the dunker is going away a little bit. We used to try to hide a non-shoer. Now it's either like he's got to be in the action rolling or we'll even space him and he'll be a cutter A lot of the smart teams are still using it, but they're using it with smalls

Moving along to Skinny Luca. What? Excellent, lining game season three. We are here. All right. You know what I thought would be fun? What would we run? We played together in our primes.

We had some common teammates. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Channing, Mark Keefe, Jared, Dudley, the five of us. Yeah, I mean, I think the one thing that comes in mind, first thing is like, you know, two-man game, me at the nail, you know, you handling. You tell me what's something. You tell me which side, boom, flip screen. You know, I can hip tap and go. I can ghost out of it.

I can hold the screen, let you get back, snake, and right. You know, pocket, we can play the side. You know, you coming down and transition and I'm trailing, early drag, clear side. You know, once you hit me in the pocket, now it's a numbers game. And we got all those guys weak side, a bunch of shooters, maybe one slashing from the slot.

What about this, pet, I. Yeah, I got the ball on top. Yep. We got you. Markief, Channing, JD, no offense, JD, but we're clearing him out. Yeah, we're gonna clear him out. All right, a little Iverson. Yep, a little I follow you a little bit.

Right when he gets here, we've all seen this play before. I hit Markief, Channing's guys gotta stay tight on Channing. Got to. And if he tracks me to the rim, then Channing's popping back and it's a bang bang three. He's not gonna want you to get a clean catch. Bam, bam, layup city, if not duck in. I'll play out of that. play out of that. What else do you like out of the Iverson stuff? I mean, listen, I like

another stuff I like out of Iverson, too, is like you said, you like the screen. So, you know, we can have you with the, well, now let's put you here. So you here, you know, and J.D., unfortunately, we got him bringing the ball up. We don't, depending on who's guarding him. Depending on who's guarding him. See, Frye, and Marquis. So now we're going to send him through. So obviously, we got it does with the ball. we're going to send Keith through this time and we're going to do the same Iverson over the top but instead of the past going to you

Duds is going to hit me Oh It's all right we get it DUD's going to hit me with the ball He's going to slide away Channingone's going to set a little screen for you And now we're running 4-1, 3-1

or whatever however we want to call a side pick-a-roll I'm coming off depending on how your guy be hard hedges That's an easy pop for you you know what is the point guard going to do right is he going to blitz it is he going to hard hedge he can't drop if he drops it gives you too much space it gives me too much runway so you know we got a lot that's the beauty of it no not to brag but they didn't like to leave my body they don't it's impossible to leave

your body you can't leave a guy that's 50 40 90 it's impossible you can't add a lot of fun but you know you're right though like it like drawing up different plays you know you can do that stuff in ATOs but really it's it's how quickly can get down the floor, get space. Yeah, for sure. In the two-man action. I remember early in my career, we did a lot of step-ups. Just a guy coming out of the corner, step up, get the switch, go to work, get you in the post, get downhill.

It'd be a lot of fun. It's too bad. My back is broke. You paid your dudes. You paid your dudes. You got a lot of great memories and a lot of great moments. That's right. The back held up long enough.

Yeah, I did. I got lucky actually, you know, thinking about it. We both got to play to 40. You're still going. Yeah, still going. How was the summer? Like, what did you do different this summer? We know how hard you worked.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What did you think? Like, what's your approach to the summer at 40? Trying to stay off the court as much as possible. Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to save it all. Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to save it all, you know, and because I know, once the season started, obviously it's a gauntlet, it's a marathon, and you want to kind of build up every month, you know, get stronger every month.

So I try to stay off the court as much as possible. I actually wanted to challenge the mind with something else and I actually picked up golf a little bit. Okay. You know, and obviously the biggest thing with golf is like this is the first time I've played an individual sport. You know, so there's no like, you know, trying to make sure the teammate is in the right spot

or I need my teammate to make this right play or he needs me to make the right play in order for us to win. It's me versus each hole. and it is like the most complicated mind fuck yeah right ever you know so it's just you versus the greens and I love that that aspect of like something that's so uncomfortable and so hard like I love that so like are you in now I can see myself doing this for the next 2030 oh yeah the bug is real I've heard about the bug for so many years and I was like well it's not going to get me I don't even yeah I don't like golf at all who wants to be

outside all day walking around and carting around like no it's real I am into it like my algorithm on my phone on social media every other post or every other video is some type of golf video now swing mechanics you know par fours par five the best golf courses in America the best golf courses in the world like what should you not do what should you do you know John Daly swing everybody stay away from it he's one of a kind like he like it's You're getting the whole education. I'm getting the whole education. And are you a simulator?

Are you going out to the course? I'm going out to the course right now. Yeah, I'm going out to the course, but I do have a simulator that you put into the house very soon. See, like, with me having to chase my kids around, I don't, I can't fit golf in. I got to get you out there. I'm going to get you out there. I'm going to come down the sky's day. I played a bit as a kid.

Played a bit as a kid. I played as an adult as of July 2nd this year. That's the hardest thing. to do right like you know it's like languages whatever as a kid you learn stuff you get a little bit of a feeling for the rhythm but it is interesting there are similarities to shooting right mechanics right balance footwork rhythm all that stuff rhythms hips it's also you found already like it's not how hard you swing like especially as you're learning right so many things can go wrong right just like same with shooting yeah right like you start trying to do too much

throws it out. That's cool, man. Yeah, so that's what I kind of did. I spent a lot of time with the family, put a lot of golf. You know, obviously worked in my body all the time. Stay in the weight rooms. You know, Pilates, yoga, all that type of stuff. I did touch the court, obviously. You know, I want to see the ball. Yeah, keep my rhythm. Keep my handle. See the ball go through the rim.

But, yeah, I just wanted to kind of save it knowing how much of a gauntlet is going to be this year. Another season of, you know, ups and downs. And, you know, the whole, you know, just a course of an NBA season. We know how I had golfing. Did you change your approach? on the physical stuff at all, or tweak it, or have a different, like, feel for it?

It's basically the same. No, it's kind of basically the same for me. You know, I've kind of found a rhythm over the last few years of what works for me, you know, and what doesn't work for me. But, like, yeah, I kind of got a good rhythm on, you know, what needs to be done. You know, and obviously, you know, you have injuries throughout the course of the season, and I'm still kind of recovering from the things of that nature. And, I mean, we both know as you get a little older, the injuries kind of decide they don't

want to recover as fast as, you know, is that. but that's all part of the process and that's okay with me sure you know it's nice about it you know you're still playing at an all-NBA level but you have luca so you don't you don't necessarily have to like start the season fast like you have to be great in the second half of the season so trying to like obviously you want to be out there you're always competitive but that's got to be nice a little bit to be like i'm going to be fine no absolutely absolutely when you have a dynamic transcendent player like luca when you have a unbelievable complimentary player and AR, you know, and some of the vets we got, you know, bringing in Marcus

Smart, you know, championship pedigree guy, bringing in, you know, DA, you know, been to the finals as well in Phoenix, you know, and some of the other guys we, we had Rui another year under his belt, Vando's back healthy, you know, so, you know, we look forward to what we can accomplish, and like you said, you know, me being 40 on the brink of 41, I don't have to rush myself to get to 100% in October, November. And I think every month we'll ramp up. But I'm happy where I am right now. Maybe tell me a little bit.

Like I remember my career, you have to adapt to different teammates. Playing with Dirk. I did a lot of screening for Dirk. We did a lot of pick and pop action. We did a lot of playing off the elbow, hit the elbow, go down and get him or Finn, and he's got the ball or doesn't. Then I go play with Amari. You know, now he's all-out assault and transition, hard diver,

able to, you know, get on top of the rim. So you have to adapt, right, a little bit. How is that adaptation been for you? Maybe, like, in the context of DeWay, or Kyrie and Kevin. Yeah, like you just say, like, you know, my first seven years in Cleveland, I did the majority of the ball houndling, you know, and we had a couple guys that came in

throughout the course of those seven years that, you know, helped me a lot with the ball handler, but not as much, you know. So I was the playmaker, I was the decision maker. You know, I made all the plays with the ball in my hand and, you know, got the ball to the guys in the right spots. But when I made the transition to Miami, you know, I knew I was going down there and I knew I had to adapt my game because I was also going to a team where a guy who also handles the ball and made the plays and things of that nature in D. Wade. So, you know, how could I still be effective, you know, with our offense, with everything, but not have the ball in my hand, my usage rate goes down. So, you know, me trailing and transition and, you know, allowing Dway to have a clear side, you know. And when, you know, the defense kind of stop him, okay, boom, right into a drag screen, you know, right into a ghost screen, whatever the case may be.

And the same with Rio, when Rio was handling the ball or, you know, when Norris Cole was handling the ball, you know, now I can get the defender off of them, you know, by giving a nice solid screen. And they don't want to leave you. They're not going to leave me so they can get, you know, into the pain and be able to play the four on three game too. So, you know, just adapting to that. And then going back to Cleveland, you know, Kyria, another guy who, you know, obviously we know. his majesty with the ball, like he's a magician with the ball. So, you know, how can I be effective with him with the ball in his hand? And the good thing that I had already got the experience in Miami,

it made it so easy for me when I went to Cleveland and played with him. So it was kind of the same thing, you know, allowing Carrey to kind of do his dance. Okay, defense is at bay. The defense is flattened out. Okay, what can we get to right now? Quick drag, quick go screen, quick flip screen, you know, things of that nature. So, you know, and then I come here and you have a, a dynamic guy like AD who could rebound the ball at 6-11, 7 foot, and then push the ball.

So start doing inverter screens. You know, you don't see many wings setting screens for the bigs. You know, so you start doing the inverse screens. And there's not many fives or many fours that can navigate getting a screen set on them. So they are super confused and allowing AD to work his magic too. So, you know, adapting, you know, to, you know, to whatever teammates, and whatever the team needs is something that I think a lot of guys should be able to do. And sometimes it's challenging for you, especially if you're a guy who, high school and college

or wherever you play, you always had the ball in your hand. Okay, now, but we have other guys who always had the ball in the hand too, so how can we make the most out of our team? So, yeah, it's been pretty seamless for me once, obviously I learned it and got, you know, used to it, and I think, you know, I give a lot of credit to Spowe and the coaches to have down there in Miami, but trying to figure out how we all can be complimentary to each other. That was a process. Yeah, for sure.

It must have been uncomfortable first. Yeah, for sure. Do you think, like, the eras also made that different, and let me explain, like, it feels like that era, it felt a little more like your turn, my turn. Not that that's what you were doing, but because it was a more, we get to this action and then he goes, now it's more random, it's more second action, third action, make the deep get into Blender, first domino. Do you feel like, I still remember you cutting, I still remember your screening, but it was

It was a lot more like when it's D-Wades, you got to be spaced, right? Now it feels like, no, you have to be ready to cut to play second side, to screen, to play the short role. Do you feel like that's... I think the personnel of teams have changed as well. You know, I mean, we looked at it last year, we discussed it in one of our previous episodes about just like O.K.C. in Indiana, and the guys are there put it on the floor. Pretty much everybody on the floor can dribble past shoot. Right. You know, if you don't have the shot, get into a dribble drag or get into a dribble, get into the lane.

Okay, now how can we get the defense shifted? You know, back in our era, you know, you had one or two guys, maybe three guys max that could dribble the ball, but you had other guys that their only job was to space. You know, the other guys to stay in the dunker. You know, you had a big devil's, okay, stay in the dunker, you know, stay outside the Carmelon area. So if we drive, big helps up, you drop it off to them.

So you look at the finals where you had, you know, Chet, and you had Miles Turner, and you had those guys are spaced at a three-point line. know, back in our area, you might have had one guy, one guy, you know, like you mentioned Channing Fry, you know, Chris Bosch, he moved to the five. They were rareties. There were rarities. There were rarities. But most of the time it was, you know, for us, Joe Anthony, you know, and, you know, U.D. at

that time wasn't spaced to the three. And, you know, Chris Birdman and Anderson, he wasn't spaced to the three in Miami. It was like, we got you guys in a dunker, boom, guy helps up, be ready for a lob or a dish off. So, you know, I think that the personnel and how the game is played now, a lot of people. pace. A lot of space. And Spol taught us that a lot, like pacing space. I remember after our year when we lost to Dallas, he went to Oregon, you know, and sat with Chip Kelly. And that was their whole thing, you know, Oregon football. Pace and space. You know, pacing space. Get up to the line.

We want to run a play. Get to the line. Let's go. We're going to make the defense real tired. Get to the line. Get to the set. I'm going to give you two or three plays in advance. So we know, boom, we run this play. Second play, we already know what we're going. Let's get to the line. By the time the fourth quarter come, everybody's tired. You know, so, you know, the personnel and how teams play, you know, has definitely changed. I look at Atlanta now. You know, you look at, like, Trey Young and Richie Shea, you know, and Jalen Johnson, you know, and now Prozingis, now at the 5. You know, they're going to, you know, dice and damn.

They're going to spread you all the way out. So, you know, that's just the personnel in the name of the game now. And to that comment, like, I feel like the dunker is going away a little bit. We used to try to hide a non-shooter the dunker. Now it's either like he's got to be in the action role in it, or we'll even space him and he'll be a cutter or be an outlet and play D-H-O-D.O. Do you feel that? Yeah, it's shifting?

Yeah, I do. The dunker is definitely, you know, not as common, but a lot of the smart teams are still using it. But they're using it with small. Right. Yes. They're using it with small. You look at Boston. When they were making their championship runs, you saw Drew Holiday there.

He was space. Yeah. Okay, the ball would get thrown back to Presingerer, or Al Horford. Drew was slot cut but instead of him going all the way out to the three-point line he was standing dunker sometimes and just like how I just mentioned

with the five trying to navigate getting a screen set on them a lot of X-1s and X2s don't know how to trap the box or don't want to trap the box when a big or a wing is rolling and he's a smaller guy so you have a guy like Drew Holiday

that can play down there that can finish with both hands can be a threat down there and definitely helps your offense out to me you know what Drew is also great at especially if he had a smaller guard If he got the matchup with the point guard, someone who was physically strong with him, one,

offensive rebounding. Yeah, you know. I think he was great at getting, just bullying his guy and being an offensive rebounder. But it also puts the smallest players, the low man. The low man. So now, you know, if you're getting downhill, you've got a point guard coming over instead of Porzingis,

because Porzengis is stretched to three. So I think it messes with the defense. And if it's not Kyle Lowry or Jalen Brunson, those guys are not taking charges. Right, right. And they're going to get out of the way. Yeah, they're going to get out of way. And it's hard in our league, I think.

harder in our league with the spacing sometimes to take a charge on a guy who gets downhill clean. You know, they're able to get around and make plays. Or, you know, you're caught in between because we're spread so far. You know, that ball's going out. Your rotation is so far. Yeah, for sure. I think that gets back to why some teams are packing the pain early. We don't want you to even get in.

Then we're not then, you know, yeah, we're going to have to X out or we're going to have to make a long close up, but we don't have to get in a full rotation all the time. So, yeah, that's a great point when you put that smaller guy down there. I mean, listen, I understand that the number of things. Threes have continued to rise and rise and rise, 30 plus, 40 plus. Some couple of teams, even 50 plus a game. But there's no better shot than a wide open layup or a free throw.

There's the percentages that will speak for itself. So if you're able to crack those scenes and get into the lane, it's demoralizing for a defense as well. If you're just like running and you're getting layup after layup after layup or you're just sitting at the free throw line, you know, it's demoralizing for a team. So that is very still important. It's not the law, but I feel like that's a difference often between the good and the bad teams. The bad teams take a lot of threes because it gives them a variance opportunity, right,

where they can beat a better team to get the point. However, the quality of those threes, that's why maybe they're not as good a team, is how many times can you touch the pain and create threes rather than let's get a three up because they're better than us. Yeah, for sure. I'm being a bit crassier, but it's real, right? Yeah, absolutely real. You see that poor teams that don't get to touch the pain, get people in rotations. The American Express Platinum card is now better than ever,

with updated benefits to help you unlock unforgettable experiences. You can access the largest global airport lounge network and global hotel program with the suite of benefits as compared to other credit card programs. Plus, with dining benefits at over 10,000 U.S. resi restaurants and exclusive access to unique experiences worldwide, Platinum membership means you can turn ordinary into the extraordinary. There's nothing like having an escape from the airport crowds.

And with MX Platinum, you're able to gain access to their network of global airport lounges. For me, it's just great to get a quiet corner to do some work, to maybe chill out a little bit before I get home to the craziness. But obviously, getting to a lounge in an airport just kind of makes the trip a little bit more seamless. With an array of premium travel, dining, and entertainment benefits, all backed by American Express's award-winning service, platinum membership brings experiences to a whole new level. It's true what they say.

There's nothing like platinum. Terms apply. Learn more at Americanexpress.com slash with platinum. He's a model. He's a model. Man, he looks good, man. Looks good. He looks good.

You know, the great thing about seeing him in shape too is that that doesn't affect that. In a sense, he's functionally stronger. Right. Because he's more dynamic moving. And you know, like, his XL decels when he's in great shape. You know, he doesn't look like one of these guys that's like the most athletic explosive, but he moves really well for a 6-8 dude. And the less weight he has his ability to stop on a dime, his ability to change direction of that size.

skill level. It's amazing. Have you seen already that movement? Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think the movement, I watched a lot of the Eurobasket December 2. I watched his team a lot. Obviously, him being my teammate and, you know, him seeing how he can carry a Slovenian team to whatever heights. And he did. I mean, he was right there, you know, with Germany, you know, in the semis. But it just looks, you know, obviously, a little bit quicker, you know, a little bit more functional. But I think more importantly, I think what a lot of people will

not see is the recovery now. I think when your body is in top tier shape and you feel so much better out, it's not the actual game. It's not like Lucas game is going to change. It's not like he's still going to get 30, 40, 15, and 10, 12. That's not going to change.

But I think for him personally, I think what's going to change for him, he's going to see how he wakes up the next day after three and four nights. He's going to be like, oh, man. Yeah, he doesn't bother. Yeah, yeah, like, because you've built this up, you've built this body up and now, you know, it's going to be so beneficial to you and your recovery process and your energy, you know, so I'm super duper proud of him.

Obviously, he don't need to hear from me or hear, I mean, it's what he wanted to do for himself, and that's the only thing that matters. So I'm, I need to get on his regimen a little bit now. I'm going to take some tips from him. That's a heck of a commitment. Yeah, for sure. Because, like, you're already getting 30 and 10 or whatever. Right, right.

To say, I'm going to spend six, eight weeks, like, really getting in top shape. You know, that's a commitment. That shows he cares. That shows he wants this team to be a great team. So I'm excited. I'm excited to see a move. Going back to Eurobasket, you watched a lot of it? I watched a few games.

Like I said, I watched Slovenia a lot more than a lot of other teams. I did watch Germany. Shout out Dennis Schroeder. Obviously, leading that squad is a good friend of mine. and him being an MVP the whole thing. Also, you know, you know, Sangoon and those guys, those, they were. Let me stop here on Schroeder. He's a Hall of Famer.

Think about it. I mean, he was basically MVP of the world championships. MVP of the Euros. Finalists or semi-finalists in the Olympics. I mean, that's not a Fiba Hall of Famer. I think that's a problem. What do you think? Yeah, I mean, I've seen a lot of the stats as well

and a lot of accomplishments as well this summer after, you know, Eurobasket. I wouldn't, if it happens, I wouldn't be like, oh, my God, I'm surprised. No, he's putting to work, man. Because it's the totality. People get in for college career. Yeah, for sure. High school. Different stuff.

So that is a part of the puzzle. I mean, pretty impressive. I mean, not that he's not a terrific NBA player, but he's not an all-star. I've not been an all-star. You know, you can see him playing an all-star level on certain nights for sure. Right, for sure. But the way he's been able to dominate the international game, And that's a big part of our game.

Right. You know, the international game is a big part of our game in the whole grand scheme of things. What they've been able to accomplish, what they've been able to do, coming here to America and play in our league, and a lot of our guys go and play overseas as well. It's all totality.

History of the game. Absolutely. A lot of great history in the nation. Shangoon. Hell of a summer. Yeah. Hell of a summer. Hell of a summer.

I think he's going to just ride that wave, you know, right to Houston and have a big year for them. man my good my good guy Fred man yeah that sucks that sucks that sucks that sucks speedy recovery brother yeah get back man get healthy get back that's gonna be a tough blow for it for Houston initiative great he's like the teammate great player great player he's like the he's the engine to any team that he's on you know and obviously we saw what he was able to do you know you hear we talk about

Kauai you talk about you know Pascal and all those guys that they have Sure. You know, Kyle, you know, but Fred was such a big piece of that, you know. Big piece. Big, you know. Balls, steps up in big moments. Yeah, absolutely. Steps up, makes big shots.

And just like that, he's just even killed. Yeah. His demeanor is always the same. And you need that throughout the course of the season. Composure. Speedy recovery, brother. Yeah. Get back, man.

Get healthy. Get back. J.T., Tyrese, Dame, Fred. Yeah. Man, this is a part of the game. Yeah. What you hate. You know, like, it hates to come on our episode one and talk about, you know, injuries.

It's just a part of the game. How much of it do you think is just the Pace and Space era still playing so many games? I mean, I don't know. I can't sit here and say that I have the direct answer to that. But, you know, we are, you know, at this point, you know, in the era that we're playing in, it's a lot more running. It's a lot more miles on the body. It's a lot more.

Possessions. possessions, space, you know, so, you know, it could result in a lot more, you know, wearing tear on the body throughout the course of an 82 game season. And if you're one of those guys that like to play or want to play, I mean, we all want to play all 82. Right. But, you know, I don't know. I don't know the answer to it, but it's definitely different. I've lived and been a part of three or four different errors, you know, I came into the league. It was literally like, it was no pace in space. Two big. It was too big, it was usually a point guard hand on the ball,

and it was a lot of, you know, eight guys pretty much in the paint all the time with floppy action, things of that nature. So, you know, and I moved into another era where we started to get a little bit more, you know, you kind of have a little bit more four out one in, maybe, three out, two in maybe, you know. Phoenix or no, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. So, you know, you got to that era, and now it's kind of like another era where it's literally like, you got five out. Yeah.

You know, we don't want anyone in the paint. So it's almost like the guy that can't shoot the complainer league has to be special, right? You just can't, you know, like you have to be special, special in a way. Yeah, you have to be, you have to be T.J. McConnell. Yeah, T.J. You have to be so special like that. Dremont, yeah. Or like Hartinstein, great at the floater, great pass, great energy, like just different skill sets.

You know, it's hard or you have to be incredible rim protector or whatever it may be. But it's funny, right, like that player has to be special in that, They found a niche for themselves. They did. And it's so dynamic. It's not an issue. Yeah. And when you put them on the floor, it's not like, oh, well, it's five on four now.

Right. That make you pay for that. They'll make you pay for that. Yeah. Yeah, it make you pay for that. But I do believe, and it's no one's fault. You know, 82 games is too many. You know, we started this way back when, and now, like, we're kind of like, beholden to it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The game, sports science has gotten better, way better, especially it's like going, you know, like all technology is improving it around. Rapid rate. Having said that, there is nothing you can do when you play 82 games, you're on airplanes, you're on different, you know, at altitude, you're in different time zones. And now the game has gotten stretched. So people are shooting from 25, six, seven feet. We've got more shooters on the floor. There's more space. So now you have to cover X-cells, D-cells. So I think some people are like, wow, it was more physical back in the day. You know, Mike

Dantony used to say to us when we got tired, you guys want to, you're tired? Oh, you want to go and get in a wrestling match with these guys? you think that's going to be more fun or you want to just run up and down and get them tired? So there's like two sides to all these stuff. But I think that like

when the X-Sels, D-Sells in space, there's no getting around the wear and terror that causes. Like we were talking about elite athletes covering elite athletes in bigger spaces, longer rotations, more closeouts, more possessions.

You know, I think unfortunately it just is a factor. Yeah. You know, and then, so I hate low management. It's a part of the equation. Like we, we have, have to be smart. We don't want guys to miss when, you know,

when LeBron James goes to Atlanta, we don't want some kid to be sad because he's got to sit up. But sometimes that's the reality that we have to be smart about it. So, I don't know, I feel like it's an important part of the puzzle is managing the rigors of the game. Yeah, for sure,

because of how the game is today, for sure. And now over to our producer, Jee, for sure. Jason for a word from one of our partners. Thanks to Draft Kings for sponsoring the show. LeBron and Steve break down the game and our partners at Draft King Sportsbook let you get in on the action. Draft Kings brings the excitement of game night

right to your phone. When you're watching your team and get a hunch about the next play, you can turn that instinct into an exhilarating bet instantly. New to Draft King's sportsbook, they're offering an incredible deal. Bet just $5.

and if your bet wins, you'll get $200 in bonus bets instantly. That's right, five bucks could turn into $200. The possibilities don't in there. Use those bonus bets on Draft King's same game parlays for a shot at an even bigger payout. For fans of live betting, Draft Kings delivers with a real-time in-game options. Get in on the action now. Download the Draft King Sportsbook app and use code mind to turn four.

$5 and to $200 in bonus bets if your bet wins. A crown is yours. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler. In New York, call 8778-8-Hope-N-Y or text Hope & Y 467-367-369. In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-88-889-7777 or visit ccpg.org. Please play responsibly.

On behalf of Boot Hill Casino and Resort in Kansas, fees may apply in Illinois. 21 and over. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Bet must win to receive reward. Minimum minus 500 odds required. Bonus bets expire seven days after issuance. Four additional terms and responsible gaming resources. See dkng.com slash audio.

Let's go to like maybe some actions you guys ran last year. And I'll take this back to Cleveland. Okay. And some similar actions you guys ran there, similar to what Denver does with Yolkitsch a little bit. But I remember watching a game in Toronto in the playoffs. Fourth quarter, down going in the quarter. I think it was you on the elbow. I think it was Delhi, Davao, C. Fry.

I'm trying to think who else was out there. I think Richard was out there. and Richard Jefferson would often cut out and then a point now this might have been different people who would you think is the in the guards you got Delhi, you got a two could be shump

I think it might be shump for example so you got a shump with the ball all right here's and so Richard clears out as this ball goes to you here comes deli for a back screen here comes shump to the rim then deli's coming off you

playing this game. We have a lob game with a slide. So the first look is on the rim, I'm guessing. Let's see if they make a mistake and get on the rim. The second look is, is Delhi just wide open. Third look is DHO, Delhi. Fourth look is DHOU rolling. Fifth look is everyone's occupied.

You got your best player, go one-on-one. I think you guys scored, like, I don't know, seven straight possessions and literally played every option. You got Channing on the skip. Yeah, exactly. You know, him sliding out of the corner. I see you guys using this action a little bit of the Lakers. So you got, you know, you with the ball, Luke with the ball,

and you got you and Austin or Luke and Austin playing the back screen rub game. How important is it for this to be a component? And I want to hear, I'm sure JJ is saying, we want to play fast, we want to play early, we want to pay some space, when you need baskets. How important. Yeah, for sure, because we want to play with pace and space, but the game is going to slow down at some point, you know, or, you know, it's going to be a foul here,

okay, take the ball out on the side, and you've got to be able to execute. You want to be able to execute in the half court no matter what. You want to get up the court, give yourself as much time, you know, to score a basket. See if they make a mistake. See if they make a mistake. And if they do, okay, let's cash in early.

But when it's time to slow the game down or if it's time to execute, we have to be able to go to something. And those are one of the sets that we know we can go to, just horns action, you know, and just start to make the reads. You know, if AR is handling the ball, you know, and me and Luca is at the air,

elbows and now you got you got space you know say for instance you got you know you got Rui in one corner you got you know Marcus Smart maybe in another corner or you know Jake or you know DK whatever you got you got shooting in the corner so you're trying to keep those guys that's guarding them hugged up you know and a Arka hit either one of us and he can either go off the opposite guy he can speed cut get the handoff back if the handoff's not there then we can play two-man game with the two guys at the elbow we have two of our best decision at the elbow with or without the ball.

So, you know, and when Luca with the ball, you know, in tight quarters, you know, if I'm coming to set a tight screen at the free throw line, I'm rolling. He got a shooter on the, on the, on the pool behind. It creates so much. And two tall passers, right? That makes it hard. You kind of got a switch. He kind of got a switch.

And that's where AR, I think, so important because he's going to have the third defender. Yeah. You guys are going to probably draw the two biggest, most physical assignments. and then they are with his skill set is going to have a third. So it's not just about him having the weakest defender, it's about him bringing the weakest defender and up the three into the action,

which allows you guys to create an advantage and domino. Now, how do you feel when you put in a non-necessarily three-point shooter? So like DA's on the floor. Do you go away from this action, or do you put him in the strong corner? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you don't go away from it because then you can manipulate defenses by, you know, now you have AR hand on the ball.

You can do some skip passes from loose, over to DA and now you can go uphill, uphill DHOs with now DA rolling where he's really good rolling to the rim. So there's ways when you have guys that don't space the floor as much to still be able to space and make you pay. So we have the, we have complimentary guys that can do a lot of things that can help our offense still even if, you know, the three point line is not their biggest asset. How do you feel in those actions, those rip to DHO actions, Would you rather be the ones at the elbow with the ball? Or would you rather be in the action-eating space?

Or is it all about match-ups? No, I think it's all about match-ups. And I think for me, it's whatever we need. I've done it all, you know. And I'm very, I can be successful at them all. And I know, okay, if we're playing a team and they like to switch a lot, okay? This is not a hit-and-hold game where you get a full body you hit and now you're trying to wrestle a guy off of him because he's now grabbing,

and try to get underneath the screen. So now this is a game where, you know, just it's touch and go. Yeah. Get behind, how fast can I get behind? So you've got to do it with, even, like we said, slow the game down in half court. But it's still pace. Yes. It's still pace.

We want to get into our actions right away. So, you know, it's just a hip tap and get out of there. Or maybe, you know, we clear that guy in the corner. We clear him out on the flight of the ball. So now when I go, it may be a ghost stream. You know, I don't set it on Luke. And now I just, I just ghost out to the three-point line. Create confusion.

Get them on their heels, step late. Ask different players to be in different positions. Now you're a point guard, you're used to defending the ball. Now, your guys go screening. How much help? How much going on? A lot of help. It's tricky.

Asking questions. Let me ask you this. We talk about pace in the half court. You know, on the teams I thought was a great kind of leader in this, was the beautiful game Spurs. You guys played in the playoffs. Comment a little bit on how that point five decision making. Do you feel like that has set up,

that was some of the foundation of the way people are playing now? Because we think a pace is up and down, but there's just as much value to pace in the half. Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, listen, like you used to say, you think about the Spurs teams. And, you know, those guys were generational before their times. And a lot of it came from, I think, a lot of their European scouts that they had, being able to see the European game. And knowing sometimes, you know, they didn't have a lot of guys that could just come down and break defenders down. We got to do this as a team, but we got to do it with a lot of space and a lot of pace.

Let's get to our actions. Let's get the ball moving. If you don't have a shot, dribble drive, kick. Dribble drive, kick. Set a screen, get out of it. Like, things of that nature. And I think that Pop and those scouts and those coaches, they did a great job of kind of bringing that game to the NBA.

And it caught us all off guard. You know, we didn't, you know, it takes sometimes a year for you to get used to a certain action like, oh, what is this? You know, so for sure, having those battles with those guys that you knew, you know, Tony coming down with so much pace. He's coming down with so much pace. Okay, he gets off of it. Okay, now Manu has it.

Man who, you know, fakes it like he's going to shoot, and now he's driving, getting to the middle of the floor. Now he's kicking to somebody else. You know, Boris, he's faking. He's getting into the lane. And then the ball ends up in the Hall of Fame one of the greatest of all time, Timmy D's hand. Yeah, it's between the circles.

Yeah, it's like, what do you do? You know, it's, this works because five, guys are willing to make quick decisions, right? I think it's a great lesson for young players. It's great lesson for young guys in the league. I often say, like, guys can go get it themselves, but there's a time and place, and you always have to think what's the best for the health of the office, not the health of my stat line. Now, the battle, tricky thing, and I think you, hopefully you and I can relate on this, is that, but as the primary creator, you want to feel a certain amount of control. But, you know, like you said, if a team can develop

where all five guys are just, I'm ready to, does nothing wrong with driving here or shooting it, but making quick decisions. The ball keeps moving. Because sometimes, like you said, Tony comes down, he may not have a total advantage, but he just gets you leaning. He just gets the guy coming out of the corner.

He just gets the guy coming towards the nail, and it's going that way. Now they're coming out. It's one more pass as a cut. Guy comes up, pick and roll. He's late. Rolling, Timmy rolls, over-rotate, skip, one, two, corner three.

So sometimes, like, it's interesting for young players to be able to find that way to, like, let go a little bit, let go of the need when you're a primary guy. of having it all the time. Do you ever feel that, like that transition when you were younger? Yeah, for sure, for sure. But I mean, I also think it's like who your coaches

are too and like what your upbringing is around the game, you know, like in high school I didn't dominate the ball, you know, so when I was drafted I wasn't the point guard on our team in high school. You know, we had a point guard who went to go play college basketball

who went overseas and it's like the lead time, you know, all-time assist guy in Stugart in Germany so I wasn't the point guard of the team but we all had our ability to we was pass and cut yeah passing dribble drive if you don't have a shot get off of it like so like it also even though I was the the alpha of the team I was never my mindset was never that like I need to have a ball in my hand it was like we're winning yeah by doing what the coaches want us to do and our system works so like I'm like when I got to the NBA it

changed for me and it kind of weirded me out right I'm like this they're now demanding you to man yeah I'm like this is not this is not winning basketball yeah like yeah I know what winning basketball is and people say well that's high school to the pros but great basketball and winning basketball it does not matter the level that's what people get so mind effed up because they think okay well the pros is different than high school well the only thing that's different from high school to the pros is just the size and the company and the players in the and the talent. But basketball IQ one-on-one is basketball IQ one-on-one on any level.

So I was taught the game from a kid when I first started playing all the way through high school on this is how you play the game. This is how the game should be played. This is not, I love it now. I'm not going to. Yeah. I love golf. I do.

I love it. I love it. But this is not golf and it's not tennis. Yeah. You know, you have to rely on your teammates. You have to figure out how. How can these five guys on the floor compliment one another and do the things that need to be done in order for the success of the team? So when I got to the NBA, really, man, my rookie year, I was like weirded out.

I was like, you got to make all the plays. It's like a guy just comes down. He just comes down and no pass and he just shoots it. I was like, oh, what the hell is this? This is a culture shock. Well, that only takes you so far. I think a lot of coaches are going to put the ball in the best players hand. It's security.

You're like, okay, well, if this guy's a great playmaker, it'll cut down our team turnovers. I know he can go get it. There's no question about it. I agree. But it only takes you so far. You have to have layers to it. It's really as much about a mentality as anything, a willingness.

Because I think, like, that's the thing where there's a security in having one guy have the ball a lot. You know, I went through it, you went through it on your trip. At the end of the day, it also becomes really difficult in the fourth quarter of multiple playoff games to constantly make the same players. Yeah, and then a different rhythm for your teammates, too. You know, you've been handling the ball all game

or you've been the decision maker all game when you finally get off of it at some point it's like your teammates like, what I'm supposed to do? Like, you know, they kind of get weirded out too. So like, you know, a lot of people, you know, think that this is what we wanted to do, but this is the position they put us in. And yes, we became great decision makers

and, you know, we knew we were we wanted our teammates to be. But, you know, I'd much rather, when I got to Miami and we started to learn, you know, when I got off the ball or I started playing so many more different positions. And we have the complimentary players to do that. That helps.

Obviously, you have to have the right personnel. But it helped, and it was a breath of fresh air for me to kind of get back to playing just, you know. I know, and I had the ball to my hands as well. But, like, setting screens and running the floor and, you know, not always happen to have the ball, you know, kind of being a decoy. Well-rounded offense. Well-rounded offense. So that definitely helps. I think that's one of the biggest emergencies that we're going to.

to you know probably see even more and more and more is just how important blenders got right like just the first domino and having other guys that can attack a close out make a play beautiful basketball that's what it is i think that's what the game is going that's what the game is that's the next era of our game i think it's begun already but how many players can you put on the floor that can create the domino effect on the blizzard you know welcome back man mind and Yeah, season three. Good to see you. That's that.

Yeah, we can't see here. It's a little too late. I'm like to round in the shoes. Thanks for watching, mind the game. New episodes drop every other Tuesday. Remember to like, subscribe, or follow wherever you're watching.