Mind the Game - Preparation, Recovery and Minding the Body

Episode Date: April 8, 2025

Welcome back to another episode of Mind the Game with LeBron James and Steve Nash. In this episode, we dive into something that we believe to be a crucial side of the game that isn’t discussed enough… the human body. We’re talking about preparation, recovery, strength and condition, diet and taking care of the mind. With LeBron playing at a high level at age 40, how does he approach the NBA calendar year? What are his offseasons like? How does he ramp up in preparation for the playoffs? And what are the little things that allow him to still be at the peak of his game at this stage in his life. Our goal in creating this show is to provide a little more insight into what it takes to play this game at a high level and we hope this conversation accomplishes just that. Thanks for watching Mind the Game. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This, by the way, it's the start of my second today. I got a pair of those glasses. I saw those glasses, though, did tent me a little bit. I'm not even going to lie. What got? What did you bring? What did you bring? We, not have your strict show budget.

I don't remember what it was. If you wanted, we can bring it. It's how I'll bring them down. Let's take them look at them. Let's take a look at them. Just in case. I might just have a little sip. Or even just had a glass here.

It looks, aesthetically, it looks great on camera. You want to keep it, keep it, you know. Classy, elevate. Yeah, keep it, Elizabeth. Yeah, exactly. Welcome back to another episode of Mind the Game in this episode. I got to nerd out a little bit. Maybe it's an episode that means more to me than most people out there,

but I think it's really fascinating for fans and even fans who played in the league to understand what it takes to survive, to find consistency, to be prepared to play, to avoid injury, to be able to go out there every night and do your job. And so in this episode, I really dug in on LeBron's preparation, how he takes care of his body, the sports science behind it, what his recovery is like, his diet, many different things that allow him to find that level night after night, but also year after year. This is year 22 for LeBron James.

That's an outrageous accomplishment to play and to be able to play at this level. Still dunking on younger players, still running the floor, still able to play an extremely high level and efficient level. And much of that is due to the way he handles his preparation and recovery. This guy is very diligent and religious about the way he takes care of his body and his mind, and I think you'll be fascinated as I was to get a little deeper and understanding methodology and the routines and the habits that he's built over these 20. you know one thing that I got to ask and it leads into a longer conversation that

fascinates me is like how do you feel like really how do you feel like do you feel great do you feel like I feel great for my age do you feel I feel great for this stage of my career you're just like I feel great um I have my moments um before that's good you're human yeah I I have my moments, but for, I would say, for where I am in my career, the years I've played, the miles I've played, the minutes I've played, the games I've played, I feel great. I feel great. And obviously, you have months where some months are better than others, depending on the schedule. After games, depending on the work course of the game, you know, you're like, oh shit. But it's usually the morning after the game.

It's that first step out of bed will let you know how old your ass is And those are the moments I'm like Brian what the hell and it's usually on the road too It's usually on the road you know you're like what the hell are you still doing out here? What the fuck are you doing? Why are you out here still? Yeah and where do you feel it? Like is it like a slight like inflammation Tired legs back? Yeah, back ankles. Yeah, yeah You know no one wants to hear this but I played some soccer a little bit. I played the other night, a bunch of guys that are like 25 to 30s. Like, I wake up the next day. I feel like I was in a car crash. That's the only way I can

explain it. Like, I don't know how you are still dunking on cats, like running out ahead of everybody. I don't know either. You know, I don't know. Do you have nights like this happened to me a lot and you have to learn to deal with it and get it done anyways where you just feel like heavy legs? Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. Absolutely. Or, you know, you wake up and you're headed to the arena and you're like yeah i don't know it's not going to be the night yeah i don't know if i can do it you know we just um i had that feeling right after the break we should be at versus charlotte right after the break back-to-back in portland you know um we didn't get to our hotel until three o'clock in the morning and we had a back-to-back versus portland they had

won uh nine in their last uh 11 and i think the two games they lost to was versus Denver I think there was 11 and 2 over their last 13, so they had been playing good ball. Chauncey had them playing great ball. And, you know, I woke up to get treatment at like 11 o'clock. You know, I didn't go to sleep until 4 or 5 o'clock in the morning. So I sent my alarm for 10.30. I was like, okay. Is that always hard for you?

Get off a flight. Yeah, even at home. It's always hard to sleep the night after a game. So do you ever go on the day? the road after a game you fall asleep that last 10 minutes of the flight you can't fall asleep for like three four hours it just respect it just killed me on the way back from Denver I hate it was the worst they killed me on the way back from Denver like holding my eyes on my goodness it killed me on the way back from Denver you know so we in Portland and um you know I get my I get my

rehab my treatment I was like okay this is the I have to get my body moving you know I can't wait till seven at night I got to get my body moving I get the treatment and rehab I get in there and I get down around like 12, 30, 1 o'clock. And usually I catch the first bus, which is usually three and a half hours before the game. So a 7 o'clock game is like a 3.30 bus. I got to hear about that later. The thought on that.

But go on. Keep going. I get into bed at 1 o'clock. I set my alarm for 2.30. It goes off. My body basically says there's no way you get out of this bed yet. So I reset my clock again for the next bus. Supposed to be at 4. Body again.

Long story short, I ended up catching the last bus at 5 o'clock. Like, I couldn't, my body would not let me get out of bed. I needed the rest till 4.15, I finally got out of the bed, caught the 5 o'clock bus. Didn't shoot pregame, got in, did some stretching, you know, did a little activation in the locker room, got ready to play. And I was like, tonight ain't going to be tonight. And I scored 40. I've been there before You've been there before

You don't panic You don't quit You're like it might not be the night Let me adapt But let me see Before you know it The crowd keep going Start going

The motor gets going You know I always said I'm like a 1965 Chevy Capri So I just need a little bit of time On the highway To get going rev it up Get a little smoke out of the engine Yeah and then I was ready to go

But it's interesting because I think like The common fan And even maybe a lot of players You know nowadays we have all the bells and whistles recovery, right? Yeah, for sure. Massage, compression, hot colds. Yeah, hot cold, yeah, yeah. Hyperbaric, yep. 95% of your recovery, 99% is sleep. It's sleep. It's that by far the greatest thing. I said it after the game. They asked me, how, I said, I just slept as much as I could. Yeah, that's it. And that's

the thing, like, that's got to be a habit if you want to be successful. Yeah, for sure. You want to prevent injury. You want to be able to say, I don't have it tonight, but I'll give myself a chance. I get 40. Right? Like, but that's a part of the discipline of sleeping and staying, you know. Because a lot of times, you know, like we travel. This is for the fans, right? Travel, you get in.

Late nights, planes, different cities, time zones, the cumulative effect of the season. Not complaining. It's amazing. Yeah, for sure. But, like, your clock is a mess. Like, trying. Like, that's why, like, I wasn't a great sleeper, so I had to nap, like, every day. Like, really for the days when I wasn't going to sleep.

Right. And it's cumulative sleep. Like, you have a bank account as a way sleep worse. Absolutely. Right? So, like, if you're trying to get eight to nine a day, like sometimes you're going to get five or six and how are you going to make up the deficit, right? So you're napping, the discipline, to go to bed early.

All those things are so important. My wife literally, she's the best ever. She gets mad at me when it's time for me to go to bed. That's how much I love sleep and take care of my body. Like, like, man, but about nine o'clock at night, I'm like, ooh, what time you're going to bed? She's like, you're going to sleep? Yeah. I am going to be.

Do you like preempt it with like, hey, guy, you want to hang a loose tonight? Because if you want to like dinner, like have a glass of wine. Better do it at like 5.36. That's my household too. Yeah, absolutely. But I'm interested in how you've done this throughout the years. And so maybe I was thinking we can start like with how the calendar looks for you. So like if you don't mind, like the season ends.

Okay, let's start now. It's a new season. So that's our January 1 as basketball players. is like when the season ends. How is your approach to the off season and especially those first three, four weeks? Yeah, those first three or four weeks is literally I try to get away from

actually me playing basketball. Am I away from the game? Absolutely not. I'm either I'm watching the game or I'm in the gym with my boys and I'm watching them prepare and playing either in tournaments, whatever the case may be. But me personally, I try to give myself,

especially at this point in my career, an opportunity for all the little nicks and crannies and bruises, whatever, to give itself to recover. And obviously I've learned over the years that me recovering at 40 is totally different in the off-season than me recovering at 25.

You just don't recover as fast. So I try to take like a month, maybe a month and a half off from like really like grinding on the basketball court. But what I am doing, you know, I'm doing yoga and Pilates and stretching and, you know, massaging and, you know, cupping and all those things that try to help you know rejuvenate my body to win its time without no wear and tear you know

if i'm running if i'm running try to run in one of the like the the ultra g uh you know um treadmill where you can lessen the load or doing more pool workouts where you lessen to load on your limbs and joints and things of that nature so that's what kind of like my first six to eight weeks look like you know after the season you know because i'm still traveling you know with the kids and with the family so you know obviously that's information when you anytime you get up in the air but you know i'm able to to kind of take care of my body then for those first six to eight weeks but i think it's important point like and i think you'll agree like i didn't believe in taking much time off off especially as you get older when you get older you stop moving you might not get

yeah yeah yeah yeah so like continuing to do like the bits and bobs and having the regenerative effect but still moving the body it's an ovial fluid like oh you're right because if you if you completely just shut down like and do nothing then you you won't do nothing right yeah you won't do nothing you start to get comfortable with it you're like i don't like this feeling but yeah it's like the principle that the body's an adaptive system so we we do what we teach it right so if you run you become someone that can just can run if you sit on the couch and do nothing you're someone that's adapted now to doing nothing so when you ask yourself to do something like this is dangerous Like, you know, for what we're trying to do, you know, to get out back out on the court and running around and things fall off, right?

So it's really important, I think, to like, it's like almost active recovery, movement. I'm interested that you felt that way too. But then the mental side too, right, like getting a little bit of space from the game, the grind, right? So that when you do four, six, seven weeks into the summer, get back out of it, you're like, there's a little spark. Yeah, yeah, for sure. It's a little bit of excitement. It makes you miss it a little bit. Yeah, yeah.

And that's what you, I think once you get to those, you know, plus 15 years in the NBA, you're always trying to find, you know, the little moments of inspiration. You know, it could be from anything, it could be just the inspiration for the midst of the love of the game. You know, you've taken time away from it, and now I'll miss it, I wanna get back to it.

It could be inspiration from, you know, your kids, you know, hanging around your kids, no matter what sport they're playing. It could be basketball, it could be soccer, it could be, you know, whatever they're playing, you're just seeing the competitive juices. So you're like, okay, now I miss it. Or it could just be, now I was talking,

to click back in, you know, because you still feel like you still have more time. Yeah. You still feel like I have more to give. Yeah, you want to be sharp. Yeah, you want to be sharp. And you, you know, usually the season doesn't end in the championship. So you have motivation from failure. You want to be more prepared.

So, like, giving yourself that space, it revs up that motivation, which is huge, right? No, absolutely. You know, it's a little bit apart, I'm sure, of your journey is, like, you know, I try to tell this to young players, but, like, a coach could give us a workout. Here's what I want you guys to do. Right. You and I doing it can be totally different. Right.

I did it. But, like, you attacked it, right? Like, you went after it. Like, so they approach, the habits that you have for how you work is so important. And sometimes you need a little bit of space to say, I'm ready now. I got the spark that I'm not, my habits are coming back that I, every day, I'm competing in everything I do, whether it's the gym, it's mobility, stability, activation, recovery, like, I can skip the cold, no, no, no, no, that's not me. I'm going to do the every little step.

And I think the best thing about it is like when it becomes just a way of life. Yep. And it's not even about because you're an athlete. It's because it's a part of your life. You know, you may not all the time, you know, I know when I'm done playing basketball, I won't be going to the gym every day working on my game anymore. But as far as training and still doing things for my body, active recovery, mentally recovering mentally, you know, grounding, you know, things

that, I'm going to still do. All the stuff that I've done besides the basketball portion when it comes to my lifestyle will not change. You know, I fell in love with the hyperbaric chamber, the hot and cold tub, the plunges, the massages, the everything, the grounding, just going out and sitting in the grass and just you know just literally literally just letting go you know and all of that stuff so those things are a part of life now and when you're able to incorporate the active life skills until now into a profession as well it unlocks a lot yeah for sure they say and obviously like you said it's most important

they say in the habit science is like a part of forming a habit is identifying with it so like you now identify with this lifestyle you identify with every spoke in the wheel of success right so So I'm a little bit like you in that, like I can't sit still. Like my career is long gone now. I've been out of the game for 10, 11 years. I can't like sit still. You've been at how long? 40 when I retired.

So, yeah, I just turned 51. Are you kidding? Coming up on, I think it's 14. So, yeah, with the 11 years, my last game was March of 14, Staples. Oh, my goodness. 11 games. It does not seem that long. It feels that long to me.

Now I feel always shit. No, you're the young man dunking on people. I feel so old. It's been 10 plus years since you played it. That's not, no, wow. Wow, time flies. My daughters are in college, all that stuff. You look great, man.

You said 51, freak. Well, let's cheers to that. Yeah, cheers, man. I get glimpses of myself in the mirror every once in a while, and I'm like, oh. Oh, fuck, no, man, you look fucking great. 51? I would have never guessed that.

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Okay, so then you get back in the gym. Yeah. Right? That part of the summer where it's like, okay, I've got to get my game sharp. Yeah, yeah. Are you at the place

where you still add or you just like, get sharp again, get sharp again? I'm a place where it's more just sharper than everything. Right. You know, I have, you know,

yeah, I'm not in ad mode. You know, I feel like I've gotten to a point where what I bring to the game. Yeah, you're comfortable with the faculty. Yeah, I'm comfortable with the foundation of my game. But it's just all about sharpening.

So if it was one summer where I felt like I didn't shoot the ball particularly well, either in catching shoot, then I spent a lot of time in catching shoot. If it was a point in time where I feel like my postgame and wasn't, you know, as efficient I wanted to be, then I do that. If it was a point in time where I felt like my ball handling wasn't as good as I would like for it to be, I'm never going to be Steve Nash or Kyrie Irvin when it comes to ball handling, but I can be myself. Yes, sir.

Then I work on that a little bit. more. So yeah, it's just about sharpening, you know, the foundation in my game at this point. But I bet you add experiences, right? Like where you're like, this situation, maybe I should try something else. Does that process happen for you postseason summer? Yeah, for sure. Next year, I need to exploit this situation in either a different way or exploit it more. Instead of giving this one away, I can double down here. You know what? It comes from where's the game going? You know, I've been in the league, and obviously, like you said, you know, you said your last game was in 2014,

so that I mean I was with you for 11 years, competing or, you know, whatever the case may be, either in multiple uniforms you're in. I was in multiple uniforms, but I've seen the game. When I came into the league, it was the two bigs. It was pretty much one guy with hand of the ball, and then you had your two wings, you know, and probably up until about, you know, I guess 2008, 2009, you start having more players handle the ball, you know,

but you still kind of still had the same two bigs, you know, thing. And then you went into Phoenix and changed the whole two bigs, no, no, one big. You know, I need one rim roller or one guy that can sprint down the floor, beat everybody down. If you're down there, you beat the big, kick it ahead to you. If not, you come set the drag screen, we're going to spread the game out. And we adapted that in Miami when Bosch became the five, you know. And, you know, we see what the game is now.

And now, today, it's almost five out. Right. You know, five out. All, everyone's shooting threes. So I think when it came to the off season, I always wanted to have the adaptability and the growth mindset to be able to change with the game where I was, I will still be productive, no, matter what the game called for. Makes sense.

And I think that's what it was. It's not like you didn't have it in your package. It was just like, I need to bring out more of this now. Yeah, what did the game cause for? Did the game calls for me to be more of a pick and roll player? Did the game calls for me to be a guy that slash or, you know, yeah, slash more without the ball, you know, did the game calls for me to shoot me a few more threes?

You know, that's where it is today. So, you know, you work on those aspects to where you're still effective, you know, and you can still adapt and have a growth mindset with the game. and have a growth mindset with the game. So when you're working out in the summer, you're getting back in the gym, how many days a week and how long are you in the gym with the ball? When I'm super locked in, I'm in there five days a week,

Monday through Friday. Saturday is a recovery day where I do absolutely nothing. Sunday is more of now starting to get the body work done and get my mind ready for the long week again. I try to on Saturday just kind of get away from it. You know, summertime, just get away from it, you know, whatever it is. But five days a week, I'm in there and it's usually like Monday is Monday is usually the toughest day.

You know, obviously you're coming off the weekend, two-day weekend. It's usually the most, you know, strenuous day. Tuesday is a lot of like a lot of running, but a lot of just catching shooting, getting your legs back under you. And then hump day is Wednesday. You know, hump day is Wednesday, and once you get over that Wednesday, the rest of the week is pretty, you know, because that middle of the week is almost challenged. And the body's now cut up a little bit. You can get through it.

Yeah, so, you know, I'm trying to go five days a week once I'm locked in for like the, for like eight to ten weeks coming into the season. And are you doing manual therapy, physio before every session? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm getting there. I usually lift three days out of the week where I'm like in the weight room lifting. And in the other two days, I'm just doing. like, you know, the ball work, band work, just kind of mobility stuff. Yeah, exactly.

That's one thing I think, like, is changed from the start of my career for sure, but probably started your career too to now. It's like, you have to, I believe you have to be religious with the mobility, stability, stuff. Because the way our game is played, you know, and today it's even faster. Guarding in more space, the travel. Like, you have to stay on top of that stuff. I mean, when I came in and obviously, when you came in, everybody was like this.

Right, right. You know, it was like, who can lift the most? you know who was the strongest that's the only way you can play you know and that's the narrative with you know thankfully for me it changed because i wasn't going to outlet well they those those motherfuckers that look like this realize they couldn't keep up with your ass you know that's why it you helped change you know so you know i remember coming the league and like being shocked at like how strong like derrick harper was yeah like pick me up full court and like you know you can grab he just grabbed me by the hip and i was like oh i don't know if i can go

anywhere. I was like, how am I going to break through this? You know, and so like, of course you adapt, you learn, but like the games come so far from, like you said, the two bigs, the clutching, grabbing, chucking, the hand checking up the core, like, man, it was stodgy back in the day. Right, right, yeah, for sure, for sure,

absolutely. That's a thing, like, and we'll get to this later in the series, but, like, talk around sometimes, you know, some people aren't as happy with the way the game is. Like, we need to help teach fans, like, how great the game is now. Like, it's not going back to that. It's a lot of nostalgia. There's other factors, but like the game is great and we need to

teach people how to appreciate this. Yeah, we just need to, I think, have an appreciation. And I think if our, if our fans will really go back and watch some of those games, they will realize then maybe that's not something we would want to see on a night-to-night basis. You know, because the difference between our game now is that all of our games are on television every single day, either nationally, locally, or through league pass. So you can watch all of our games. In the 80s and the 90s, you may be able to catch one game if you had it locally.

If your team had a local broadcast deal, you could catch it. And if not, then you may not see a game for a long time. Like the NBC broadcast. Yeah, NBC broadcast. Make once every couple, you maybe catch one or two games, you know, every other week. So, you know, I think the nisage of the game, I think it's just a deeper conversation of why we should appreciate and celebrate our game of basketball today, our athletes of today. Just like, you know, the 60s and 70s and 80s and 90s guys were celebrated and 2,000 guys were celebrated. So it's definitely a conversation we'll get to later.

Yeah, we'll get to it. I'm excited about that for sure. But how about this? At what point in the summer you're like, I want to get in game shape? And how do you, is it like September? Is it in training camp? You prepped to get there in training camp?

How do you do that? Well, I can, we both can tell everyone out there. There's no way to get in game shape in the off season. Right. No. But what you can do is getting the best optimal shape leading up to the, a step before. A step before.

Nobody can come into trying to cap and say, I'm in game shape. It just doesn't happen. So, you know, I try to get into the best shape I could possibly be in leading into September. So, you know, when it gets about, you know, after the first week of August, you know, I start then to now start to like push, you know, a little bit. You're ramping up the intensity. I start ramping up. So every week I ramp it up a little bit more. Ramp up the intensity.

ramp up, you know, the conditioning portions. You know, I start knowing when I'm getting in better shape when I need, when I don't need as many breaks for water. You know, that's kind of like my gauge. You're like, okay, I'm fitter this week. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, you know, like if I'm doing a 45-minute court workout and every five to seven minutes, you know,

through that 45 minutes, I'm getting a drink of water. I'm like, okay, I got to get better. Okay, then, okay, the next week it's like every three to five minutes. Right. And then it's two to four minutes. and then it's one to two minutes, and then it gets to a point where I only needed one break in 45 minutes.

That's when I know, like, okay, I'm in really good, I'm in a really good pace. And maybe you can explain through the stages of your career, but, like, when do you start playing? And, like, in your first third of your career, the first seven years, how much did you, when did you start playing?

Oh, man. Oh, five, oh, five. Yeah. Oh, I used to play, I mean, I probably my first, wow, probably my first 12, 14 years, I played all through the summer. I mean, it's because you love to who. I just love to who.

Like, I used to play outdoors. Like, I played outdoor basketball as a pro. I had no idea how bad that was for me. But I was like, I fucking love ball. Like, me and my friend, I go back home in the summertime. You know, back in Akron, so obviously I played for the cast, but I would be back in Akron. Me and my best friends, they'd come back from college.

We'd get a group of, we'd be playing outside. Like it was nothing. The sun is beaming off the black top. Yeah, it's funny you say that. Like when I was at like my prime in my career, even like first three, four years in Phoenix in the summer, go to the facility, you know, do all your work, play, whatever. I always wanted to shoot again.

So I always tried to shoot again, like just how efficient can I be? So in Phoenix, it's 110, 115 degrees. I would go to the park, sometimes the driveway, but I would go to like a random park because no one's going to be there. Right. No, not at 115. Yeah, right? Back then, the iPod, you know what I mean?

And, like, make 200 shots, no rebounder, just out there because I would get my own rebounds, conditioning, it's hot. It's funny, you said that. Did you ever have, like, there's fans showing up when you're playing on the park? Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure. So you had to kind of, like, be smart about it a little bit? Yeah, we had to be smart about it, yeah.

Yeah, for sure. We had to be very smart about it. And then I got very smart and kind of built a little full court, outdoor court at my house in Akron. And I would have, literally, I would have teammates come over and my best friends, and we had runs. in the backyard, like on the black top. Yeah, that's amazing.

Like, yeah, it was. That's great memories. And then, like, say the last seven years, like, do you still play pickup before the season? Or do you like, not as much? No, not as much, you know. Just the wear and tear, the risk. You know, especially, like, if I do it early in the season,

I mean, early in the off season, then I have the ability to kind of, if anything was to happen, I have the ability to recover. But then it's like, but my body's still recovering early in the summer. And then it gets to the point, to the point where like late August hits and I'm like, do I want to risk, you know, I've

trained my body, I know where I'm at, I know I'm physically fit and ready to go into training camp. Do I really want to risk it? You know, so every now and then, you know, during the workouts, like I'll play, you know, one-on-one, you know, or, you know, compete versus, you know, the coaches that's there, you know, get that kind of bump, get some live reps with the coaches bump, they bump you on the posts or things of that nature. So, yeah, but I haven't played as much five on five over the last few years. So that two, three, first two, three weeks of preseason is your time to adapt to the demands of play, the feel the bumps and bruises, you're soreness, get the wind there, as you know.

From here, from low back all the way down, you're cooked. Yep, it's like an adaptation process. You have to go through. There's no cheating it. No matter how fit you are, no matter how much running, stairs. No matter. That's when you know it's working. That's when you know it's working.

When you can't feel anything from your, from here all the way down, And you're like, oh, my God, I can't, like, you're like, I hate getting out of shape. It's like, oh, but I wonder how people, other people feel that hasn't done anything. So it's like, you know, you just start to stay tapping in. Yeah, I mean, you got to go through that because you can't do it 12 months of the year, right? So you have to get out and get back in. Yeah, to build up smart, especially as you get in your 30s, late 30s, 40s, you're going to be smart about it. Yeah, absolutely.

Well, let's shift to the season then. Like, maybe I'm always curious about this. And it's pretty common. I think fans probably know this now. like they always say in the NBA, you got to have a routine. Yeah. Right? Because you play so many games in different cities, different gyms, like sleep patterns, all that.

So making sure you have a routine kind of just keeps you accountable. So you're not like making it up as you go along. And it's definitely for me, I would say like the top 20 guys in league. Like 19 of them are like religious, religious, if not 20, about their routine, about what shots they need, all the prep, recovery, diet, sleep, all the stuff. How do you approach, I'd love to start with a practice day and then a game, And so like what does your day look like? Yeah, you manage it.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, for a practice day, you know, if we're practicing at 11, I like to get to the facility, you know, around, prior around 8, 8.30, you know, to start my work. Breakfast at the facility? Breakfast at home? Not until, I don't eat until after practice. After practice. So hydrate?

So I'm hydrating. I have like either like a green juice or some fruit or whatever case may be. may be, but I don't eat a full meal until I get back home after practice, and that's usually around like, my first meal is usually around like 1.32 o'clock. And by design or you just don't like eating before? By design. By design. Yeah, by design.

Yeah, a little bit of fasting quality. Yeah. By design. And are you taking supplements? Yeah. Cretine? No, no creatine, no. Just natural everyday vitamins, things like, things of that nature.

Just a little protocol of vitamins. If I have anything after practice, I have like a fruit. a fruit smoothie, you know, because I've burnt so many calories or whatever. I have a fruit smoothie or some like some overnight oats. Yep. So I get there and I usually get dressed and go to the weight room. I'm usually in a weight room for about 45 minutes. Every day or different days? Different days. Different days. If we had a couple days in between hand, I'll go to the weight room then because I like to lift on game day as well. So I'll go to the weight room. So your lifting schedule doesn't, isn't predicated on game-day practice day, it's on the day.

Like, what have I done? Yeah, what have I done? Yes, what have I done? Like for this week, so say for this week, today we had a day off. So this morning was predicated on all rehabbing, body work, things of that nature before I got here. So I didn't know strengthening whatever case may be. Tomorrow we have a game. I'll go in early and I'll get a lift in before.

and then right after I lift, I'll shoot, you know, early, three, four hours, about five hours before the game start. Because it's a back-to-back on Friday, I probably won't lift that day. It'll be more of a recovery work and then a little bit of shooting as well just to prep me for the game. So, yeah, it's, I have schedules depending on how the games are flowing throughout the season that's routine with the schedule.

And do you, but you go in the gym almost every day to do activation. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Every day, non-negotiable, for sure, same. And then, like, do you, and this is probably a little bit of summer question, but in the season, do you break it up into, like, a strength block, a power day, you know, like, do you break it up in, like, you know. No, I do a little bit of that. Total body type stuff, maintenance.

Maintenance, total body. In the summer, do you break it up? No, in the summer I break it up. Because the difference between, like, obviously, you and no, like, and you like, you like to break it up in the summer because you don't want to get, like, you don't want to get stale. For three months of the same. months you're doing the same shit like you so you definitely break it up on purpose so you don't get tired of the same routine also they can target in on a specific yeah exactly we're working on

power today we're working on strength whatever it may exactly like so for like during the season it's kind of the same a little bit it changed it but it's the same routine because it's a cadence you know my body is i know my body is going to react well to it no matter what i'm doing my body is formed and it knows exactly how it's going to get the most out of it for those games right and like the demands make it almost impossible to get gains anyway. So they break it up too much. Like, of course, you have to touch on these things, but you can do that in a total body workout

where you touch on it for maintenance rather than focus in on like platometric stuff, you know. So that's interesting. Yeah, for sure. Game days, maybe give me the rundown on game. Or let me go back to practice days. What are your preferred recovery modules? Like do you massage, compression, hot and colds,

hyperbaric, cry all, use them all? It could be all of those on a day, you know? And I try to maximize as much. as I can. If it's a practice day, I try to get the massage in, the cold tub in, the, you know, we have the Norma Tech legs, you know, to the compression unit, the ice bags. I try to get it all in. Yeah, yeah. Plus a nap. You know, when I get home out of the practice, most important, get a nap in. You know, when I wake up, you know, I'll either, depending on how my body's feeling, I can, I have some things at home where I can put my foot in the foot bath, knees,

everything just I'm trying to maximize how can I be to optimal shape and game ready for the next day I'm always thinking about the next day you're obsessed yeah I love it you're obsessed I feel I mean that's this is you know kindred spirits in that way because you want to leave no stone unturned for a performance if I why why it's all there for us it's all there for us and you know I have I have the luxury of having an unbelievable wife and help around the household to where they allow me to be able to use all my time while I'm playing the game and listen I know I got I'm I'm I'm when I'm done playing the game that time will be priority number one will be my wife it would be my wife my kids you know and I just thank them for allowing me to have me as priority number one

while I've had this profession I I've allowed me to do that and I know it's not always been like you know great roses and it's been you know amazing, but they've allowed me to make myself priority number one in my profession of how I treat my body, how I, how I do things, the hours that I put into it in order to be the best I can be. And I have to, it's only right I give that back when I'm done. But it doesn't work otherwise, right? Right. Not if you want to be a mate, not if you want to be great. If you want to be great or you want to keep playing. Or you want to keep playing. Right. You want to extend your career beyond where you're supposed to play. Now that balance, you want to be, not if you want to be a mate. You know,

that balance, like how you handle the stability of home life, but you have to be selfish. Yeah. Right? So, and the family has to understand, like, it's, I mean, selfish is the wrong word, you know, committed. Yeah. I'm committed to my craft, my career. But that family stability allows, gives you a platform, right?

Where you're not worried, like, we're good over here. Right, right, right. I can go to work and do my thing. Yeah, it's definitely, it's work wonders, man. It's been amazing. I've definitely picked the right woman and that, and I've, you know, the kids have come along and they've, you know, accepted the fact of what I wanted to accomplish.

And I've tried to just pour into them when I have the ability and do the things that I can as a father. But I've always wanted to be, I've always wanted to be as great as I could be. You know, I never knew what it was going to, I never knew what it looked like, but I knew my craft and I knew my passion

for wanting to be great. You know, I didn't know what the end result was, and that goes back to what we feel. first talked about when we first started as was the process. I knew I was in love with the process and I didn't know what I was going to get out of the process, but all I've seen as I've grown up and when I've played the game of basketball, that when I fell in love with the process, rewards was at the end of the tunnel. And I've never worried about, it was never the other way around.

It was never the rewards are at the end of the tunnel. And then I worry about the process. It was always about the process first. was the process. My reward was the process. Yeah. I mean, it's a great, honestly, it's a great example of your family. Yeah, yeah.

You know, the way you've been able to manage both. Your family's helped you build a platform to strive for greatness constantly. And that's just, I mean, that's, I think, one of the greatest parts about your career is not like the Wikipedia page, right? It's like the way you've done it, like, man, I've made thousands of mistakes. Like, I don't, you, I don't have you made a couple? I don't know. Like, you've done so much, so long in the spotlight.

I love that example for people. out there for society for kids. So that's kudos to you and your wonderful wife and family and your kids represent your family incredibly well too. Let me ask you this, game days, you're there so early. This is year 22. You're there, how many hours before the game? Five hours before the game, like that type of,

I mean, first of all, I think you're crazy. Like, you know, so first, like, I wanted to be there an hour and 40, so that I could get there and be like, like, pop, pap, pap, bab, like total efficiency. So you, what is your frame of mind, like, I want to be there all day, basically? Um, I want to give myself the time to prepare how I know I would like to prepare to get ready for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, you know, and what, what I do is, all my time

is no there's no fat there's no fuck around time once I get to the arena you know I get there five hours before as soon as I get there I put my workout gear on

I go right to the weight room as soon as I leave the weight room I go to the court get a workout as soon as I leave the court I go get body work and make sure that my body's moving and doing those things with my body

as soon as that is done you know, I head in and put the Norma Tex and the ice and all that stuff on and recover from that. As soon as that is done, now I'm reading a scouting report, like, and I'm, you know, tapping into that. Pretty much when that is done, now JJ's coming into the locker room and he's addressing the team. Yeah. And it's time to go. Like, that is, and I have a little meal in there too. I'm eating, I have a little meal, a couple snacks there within there.

Obviously, I want to keep the, you know, keep my nutrition. go on and I have to fuel the body because I know what I'm about to do out on the floor but that time is occupied. All intent and purpose. Yeah. Yeah. See, like I got to get away. Yeah. So I was the opposite. Like I wanted to be there

and I had my thing, you know, like go in right away body work, activation, shots, taped. Yeah, go. Go on. Coach is walking in. Like I wanted to be like, because you know we play so many games. Yeah, for sure. Wasted energy. maybe that's one thing that I wasn't great is that I would waste like that anxious performance energy if I was there too early

I want to save that I know for sure I can see that I can see that and and I'm getting to the I have not gotten there obviously because I'm still doing it but there are times I'm like the fuck are you doing well I'm glad you in Portland you were like let me hit the alarm again I had no control over that

this body took over me it was like you're I'm not letting you out of this bed but there are times I mean I can see for sure. I mean, I'm 40 years, I've been in this team for 22 years. So, like, you know, I definitely feel, and see it since it sometimes when I leave the house at like 1 o'clock. The game's at

7.30, and I'm, you know, and I'm pulling up to the arena, pulling down in the tunnel at 2.15 in the afternoon for 7.30 game, and I'm like, all right, let's get to work. Incredible commitment. Okay, post-game. Like, post-game, like, how dialed are you on nutrition? Are you,

like, are you, like, I have a plan for nutrition at all times? you're like 80% I might cheat mode? Like, how do you manage nutrition? Well, obviously, you know, being home in a way is different. But no, I'm pretty locked in on the nutrition side, you know, when it comes to what I put in my body is what I'm going to get out of. You know, and obviously you definitely have, you know, I definitely have cheat modes.

Like, I fucking love chocolate chip cookies and ice cream. And since I love ice cream, I have to get, like, the dairy-free ice cream. The low-fat, you know, the non-glutin-free cooking, like I have to kind of cheat it that way. Yeah, me too. But I love it, but I love it. That's like my vice, I love it. So, you know, you have to, you have to know, you're playing on these games.

Does your family think you're crazy for that? Like when I go in the fridge and get myself like a yogurt popsicle and my kids are like, that's disgusting. At this point, they've accepted me for who I am. So yes, they, early on, there's literally you could go in my freezer and there's like three different carts. cartons of ice cream in there. There's like, well, like when my daughter goes in there, she gets her vanilla bean,

ice cream is like extra creamery. I'll be looking at it like, damn that looks so good. Oh my goodness. That's so good. And then mine over there was like, oh, you know, dairy free and no, all that stuff. I'm like, oh, yeah.

Farmitama. Yeah, yeah, just give me that. Organic. But yeah, I'm pretty dialed in on it. Obviously, like I said, you know, the road and being home, you know, it fluctuates a little bit. But, you know, obviously, you know,

you're starting to, in order to be ready for the next game or whatever it is, it starts right after the game ends and you sit down, you know. So I'm getting right to the ice and I'm getting right to nutrition and getting fluids back into me because I need to start preparing for the next game. So it's funny.

A lot of people see me, like, walking off the court, you know, when there's, like, time left in the game. Right, right. Like, no matter if it's a loss or a win, The reason I'm doing, I'm trying to get to the locker room so I can start my... I think I saw a clip from last night. Yeah. The game was a wrap.

It's hungry. I got to get to the locker room to start my process to get ready for the next game. So I'll be sitting in the locker room, foot on an ice bag, ice bags on. I got my smoothie and my fruit and I'm already getting to it right now. That's amazing. People will probably see you leave the court and be like, no, damn, you know. You know, they had that. It was funny when I, during the loss, they was like, oh, he's a porous.

sport. Like, leaving the court, they lost my, and then they start seeing me do it during the wins. They was like, huh. Well, he's no sportsmanship. But that's a great thing for fans to know. Like, that's how dialed you are in your process. It's like, I cannot wait for the next step in the process. You're not sitting there ready to, like, chest bump at the buzzer. Like, let me get in this tub. Let's get this done. Let's get the right food in. That's amazing. I mean, I appreciate it. I was someone that tried to always look for every advantage. You know, I probably wasn't going to beat anyone in a race, a jumping contest, the lifting. You know, so I always look for, like, to learn, to learn.

So, like, the amount of time, resources, commitment you've put into your body, your craft, I think is an incredible example. I mean, listen, from outside looking in, like we said, we never had any conversations about it, but what you was able to do with your career, like you said, you wasn't the fastest, you wasn't the strongest, you wasn't the tallest, and you're sitting with two MVP trophies. you know and being able to to transcend a game of basketball like what you did you know in phoenix with dan tony and those guys you guys brought a level of expertise to the game that's still now being played you know the get the ball up like right away you know like we're not wasting

no time you know and being able to play with the with the past being infectious things of that nature and you being a catapult to that because of your level of commitment to your craft. I don't think that's talked about enough in our sport. You know, what's talked about is how high you can jump, how far you can shoot, you know, you know, all these other, how strong you are. But I think what gets overlooked is the level of commitment to one's craft.

And that is why you're able to succeed, you know, because we've seen, and in sports, we've seen the strongest guys, don't make it. We've seen the most athletic guys don't make it. We've seen the guys with the best looking shot don't make it. We've seen the guys with the greatest handles don't make it. What is it that separates? What is it that separates? Obviously, opportunities sometimes have something to do with it. Obviously, circumstances have something to do with it. But there's something about the level of the process when it comes to your craft. And I don't think that's ever talked about enough

You know when it comes to our sport That's an interesting topic actually Like what are the non-negotiables Like what are the The themes of greatness Like you know like you said Just because you're the biggest strongest fastest Doesn't make you great

Right like it's to me it's kind of like Resilience Like intelligence You know like these are the characteristics Like discipline Yeah discipline If you have the discipline To work at your craft

To get better every day To always have a growth mindset that, you know, if you are able to read and react, able to learn on the fly, you know, you can go places. Like, it doesn't matter how big. And so that's the beauty of this, finding the process, like sticking with it, hitting plateaus, not giving up. And not having all the answers.

Or not thinking you know all the day answers. Right. Being able to have that growth mindset, you know, even though you may be great now, how do you know it's going to be sustainable five years from now or 10 years from now? how can you continue to reinvent yourself to the point where like you know it gets to the point where it wasn't your career didn't end 10 years ago because you gave up on the commitment of the process yeah wheels fell off and and it's by the way control what you can't control that's it right and you can't control that and but by way you sleep better at night you like fuck you know I want I had more to give I know I know I was committed to the craft yeah but the But that's something that you can't control.

That's something certain people can't control. And that's okay. But how can you sleep better at night when you know that you've cheated the process or you didn't give everything that you had when you had all the opportunities to? You know, that's the thing that I knew for sure that I did not want to be a part of that conversation. Because I knew I had the gifts. I saw I had the gifts. I knew I had the gifts.

people were saying I had the gifts I mean I guess they know something something has to be going right but in order for me to actually fulfill my commitment and my gifts and fulfill what I think I can't become I have to be able to tap into the process and lock in on that

I think that's an amazing message a great place to stop and if you listen to the last 45 minutes there's no doubt that you maximized your gifts as prodigious as your gifts have been as early as you were touted as a great, there's a long way from start to finish. And I think your process is what got you. They're not your gifts.

And so that's a great message and a great example for a lot of people out there in sport, without sport, all that, so I appreciate it. It was fun to hear about it. I appreciate you. We got, what have we got? Another nine sit-down. It's going to be grateful.

That's all right. You know what I wanted to ask, though, is like, You need to bake into your day, fuck, around time. It's just by design, not because you don't know the plan. Right. So I wanted to ask, like, what is it? Is it a reality show? Is it Madden?

Madden. You know what I was going to say? Madden. Thanks for watching Mind the Game. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe for more content. You know, You know, You know,