Mind the Game - The Hardest Actions to Guard in Basketball

Episode Date: March 27, 2024

Welcome to another episode of Mind the Game with LeBron James and JJ Redick. We first want to thank everyone for watching and sharing the first episode and we're proud to share this next one with you all. Today we examine the hardest actions to guard in the NBA and the best ways to defend against these actions. The two main actions we focus on are the Golden State Warriors post splits and the way Draymond Green acts as a hub for Stephen Curry, Klay Thompson, Kevin Durant and the rest of the roster made that play nearly impossible to defend against. The other play we talk in detail about is the inverted pick-and-roll with Nikola Jokic and Jamal Murray of the Denver Nuggets. There are several examples of duos that make that play hard but we take an extra close look at what Jokic does that makes this play so unstoppable. We also dive into other schemes like ghost-screens with a great big shooter like Kristaps Porzingis of the Boston Celtics and how Boston gets creative on offense. A few other topics we discuss are why teams blitz Luka Doncic of The Dallas Mavericks, the lack of creativity in men's college basketball and the mileage LeBron has put on his body in 2024. There's so much more we discuss so let's get into it. Cheers. Mind the Game is presented by Uninterrupted and ThreeFourTwo Productions. Subscribe to Mind the Game with LeBron James and JJ Redick today for more NBA insight, analysis, highlights and more. And if you'd like to see some of the visuals referenced in this episode, please subscribe to Mind the Game on YouTube at YouTube.com/@MindtheGameSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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This is what we're doing. This is what we're doing. Welcome to episode two of Mind the Game podcast with LeBron James and J.J. Reddick, presented by uninterrupted and 3-4-2 productions. I just wanted to say thank you for all of you who listened and watched to episode one. We greatly appreciate the positive response from all of the stuff that we talked about. There's a lot more of X&O stuff in episode two. The title of episode two is simply the hardest actions to guard in the NBA.

No, not necessarily the hardest players to guard, but some of the best players in the world are involved directly in these actions, as you will see when we break it down. And two of the actions that we focus primarily on in this episode are the Golden State split screens and inverted pick and rolls. All right, before we get to the plays that we're going to cover, I want to go over some of the key terminology. All right, the first two words are tilt and fire. I want to be clear here, every team in the NBA,

has a code word or a word for a double team. A lot of teams I played on, we had a color scheme. So blue was a double team from the nail. Green was a double team from the baseline side. In this case, tilt and fire represent those colors. Tilt means in a post-up, a double team from the baseline side. Fire means in a post-up, a double team from the nail. And of course, we covered what the nail was in episode one.

Next two terms are hedge and blitz. So these are common terms in pick and roll coverage. Now, in the NBA right now, not a lot of teams hedge in pick and rolls. A hedge is simply when the screener's defender jumps out past the screener and tries to reroute the ball handler around the screener's defender, and then the screener's defender will retreat back to the screener. Again, not a lot of teams do that, primarily because everybody can shoot the basketball. Sometimes in inverted pick and rolls, or sometimes as teams are targeting matchups, certain players will hedge. So, for instance, if LeBron James is being guarded by Jonathan Kaminga and he wants to get a switch for Steph Curry, he will have. He will have,

whoever is guarding Steph Curry come set a pick and roll. And more times and not, Steph Curry will hedge, reroute LeBron, and then return to his map. That is what a hedge is. A blitz is simply a double team on a pick and roll. All right, a ghost screen, or as LeBron calls it, a bluff screen. A go screen is simply when you run into set a pick and roll and you essentially don't stop, but you just run past the pick and roll, and you either go to the three-point line or you slip to the basket. That's essentially what a go-screen is. It's a go-screen because you're not really there. You're essentially just trying to create confusion for the two defenders involved in what looks like a pick and roll, but is actually

just a go-screen. Tag and two-nine go hand-in-hand. We have a defensive three-second rule in the NBA, so as a defender, you're only allowed to be in the paint for three seconds without guarding anyone. There's two ways around this. You can tag a cutter, which simply means touching a cutter as he goes through the paint. 2-9 is simply a game of cat and mouse. How long can you be in the paint in a help position while not guarding anyone but not get a three-second violation? 1-1,000, 2-1,000. You're trying to be in and out in 2.9 seconds. That's what we mean by 2-9. So when you're watching a game and you see a player with one foot in the paint, one foot out of the paint, one foot in the paint, one foot out of the paint, almost like a tap

dance, he's 2-9. A couple other simple terms. Backside, weak side, strong side. Strong side is simply the side of the floor where the ball is. So if a player is on the right wing, the right side of the floor is the strong side. If a player's position in the corner, while that player has the ball on the right wing, then the player in the corner is on the strong side of the floor. If a player is in the left corner, opposite the ball, the other side of the court, he's in the weak side. Backside is a little bit interchangeable with weak side. Backside is also a play where a player starts in a corner opposite the ball. Let's say the point guard passes to the five man at the top of the key.

The player in the corner then receives a pin down and comes along the three-point line and gets a dribble handoff from the five men. That's backside. Think Manu Genoblee in San Antonio. Or even better, think J.J. Reddick in Philadelphia. you. All right, I want to go over what is called a Verra Zhao screen. A Vergao screen is actually named after LeBron's teammate in Cleveland, Anderson Verjao. And all a Vergao screen is is when a screener

flips the side and angle of the screen. Let me show you. In this case, the X's are the offensive players. The O's are the defensive players. So in this case, the big man. would run into this pick and roll, the defender would follow, and as he gets to the screen, instead of setting the screen on this side where the offensive player would get to his right hand, he simply flips the angle on the screen side

and Verrajaoz it, and the offensive player gets to drive away from the defense, because most of the time, this defender of the screener has followed and is assuming he's going to be. going to provide help defense on this side. Bears out. Chaos ensues. Okay, Blind Pig is something that we reference. Blind Pig is a triangle offense concept. I had to guard this concept playing against the Lakers. Powell Gasol and Kobe Bryant would oftentimes be the two players involved in

this. And then against the Knicks, oftentimes it could be Carmelo Anthony involved, Raymond Felton, Jeremy Lynn. Essentially what Blind Pig is, the ball is right here with this player. Here is your offensive player, the X right here. O's are the defensive player. The X is being denied. This is Kobe Bryant. And this year, this is Jalen Brunson. Isaiah Hartenstein will flash to the elbow. The ball then goes to Isaiah Hartenstein right here. Galen Brunson, who is being denied, then has a clear path to go receive the ball or get a drop-off pass, dribble handoff, whatever, turn the corner. Create habit. Blind Pig.

All right. Golden State Post splits, a big part of this episode. We have so much visual component to this. You guys hopefully will understand this at the end. Again, this is another triangle concept. Let's do a two-man post-split to start. How about that? So here's the ball.

the ball goes into the post. Now, this pass for Golden State is not to score. This pass is to get Steph Curry and Clay Thompson into the action. So Steph can split with Clay Thompson. Clay can back cut towards the basket. He can curl towards the basket, or he can come pop for three. And that's only one option. There are many options in this offense. Let's say Kavan Looney wants to get involved here. They throw it in to Draymond Green. Steph goes towards Clay Thompson.

Maybe Clay Thompson girls to the basket. Kavan Looney then cleans up Steph. Ball comes out to Steph. That's post splits. It's impossible guard. The other thing I just wanted to tell you guys, on this episode for these drawings, Mab drew these. I did not draw these courts. This clip went out on social, America's play, Baseline out of bounds, pick the picker, whatever you want

to call it. This guy underneath the basket on a baseline out of bounds play, B-O-B, baseline out-of-b, baseline out-of-bounds. There should be an extra O, but who cares? It's just B-O-B. This guy right here, that's the shooter. This is Kyle Corver. This is Steph Curry. This is Ray Al. and this is Duncan Robinson. He's going to set a back screen right here, a rip screen for a bigger wing, usually. Maybe you get a switch, maybe you don't. Maybe you get a layup here underneath the basket.

This guy in the corner over here, this is Bam. This is DeAndre Jordan with me. This is Joelle Embed with me. This big guy then goes and sets a screen for the shooter to come off towards the three-point line. So if you don't get a lay-up, you might get a three-in-the-corner. America's play.

Pick-the-pick. The other concept that we talk a lot about this episode is inverted pick-and-roll. Pick-and-roll, as most basketball fans know it, is simply a ball handler, usually a point guard, getting a ball screen. So a live-ball dribble

from a big guy, a five-man, right? A center. think Kenny Smith and Akeem Olajuwon. Think John Stockton and Carl Malone. Think Kobe and Shaq. Right? It's a pick and roll. A normal pick and roll.

The smaller player has the ball. The bigger player sets a screen for him. Inverted pick and roll is simply when you invert that. In this case, a bigger player has the ball, and a smaller player, oftentimes a really good shooter, sets a ball screen for the bigger player. Very rare that big guys can do this, but certainly a lot of them can. Joel and Bede, Nicola Yokic, Anthony Davis, Janice, of course.

Bigger wings will also run inverted pick and rolls. So this is Duncan Robinson setting a pick and roll for Jimmy Butler. This is me setting a screen for Ben Simmons. That is an inverted pick and roll. We actually had a call in Philadelphia. It was called 12 rub rifle. So 12 was just a one-two pick and roll. I'm the two-man. Ben was the one-man. Rub was our name for a high pick-and-roll, which means in the center of the court. Rifle, I'll get to that in a second. So an inverted pick-and-roll would be the smaller player setting a screen for Ben Simmons, right? If I set a good screen, Ben could get all the way of the basket. Sometimes I would slip to three, though. In that case, Ben would throw me the ball. And sometimes, like against San Antonio Spur late in the game, I would make the shot and get fouled and have a four-point play to hit a game

winner. But other times, this would be Joe L. Embed. This is the rifle part. The rifle just means chase action. Sometimes the definition of a concept is in the word. If I said go chase the ball, what are you going to do? You're going to pass the ball and run after it. So 12 rub rifle is an inverted high pick and roll, followed by chase action. So if I didn't have a shot, I would throw the ball to Joel and Bede, and we'd go right into Chase dribble handoff. 12 rub rifle. Miami Heat, game four, 2018 playoffs.

Dagger. Do you look at basketball as a puzzle in some ways? I was with Missoula in September. He said competition is a puzzle, and you have to approach it through intellect. And what I find when I talk to you or when I talk to CP or I listen to you guys, Rondo, of course, who we had on the pod last year, it's like it's exploitation. I used the word manipulation once with Chris and he did not like that word

so I'm going to use a different word today it's exploitation you're exploiting and sometimes it's maybe basketball IQ sometimes you're maybe exploiting a matchup I know that I was exploited a lot at the end of my career because by that time it was about target hunting

and oftentimes when I was on the court I was the target and it's exploitation pick on the white guy This is bullshit, man. I don't like that, man. It bothered me so much. I mean, I remember, dude, when I was with Philly, we ended up not playing you guys in the playoffs,

but, like, that first year in Philly, because I was guarding point guards that year. Because Ben wasn't good enough on the ball yet, right? They had him guarding bigger wings. So I had to guard point guards the first time in my career. So, like, all of a sudden I'm navigating a pickup point with Damien Lillard at 35 feet. People would never understand that either, by the way.

Yeah. People that just watch casual basketball would never understand if you've been guarding two guards or small fours or whatever, your whole career and then one year you have to make the shift to now guarding point guards, it's a whole different. Your intent is now like, it was so different. Screens are coming. You're not used to getting hit with screens. You know, like it's a whole different. If the big don't talk to you, get cracked, you're like, what the fuck are you guys doing back there? And nine times out of ten, most bigs

are not going to talk anyways. No, I remember there was a game with, like, with Charlotte and Kemba Walker. You know, he's a shifty motherfucker. He's a shifty motherfucker. There's not too many guys, yeah, yeah. He's doing that little left drops to the move.

And I'm like, come on, man. Like, what am I supposed to do this? But I remember we played you guys a few times that year. And I'm on the point guard. And you're just like, come here every time. Fucking brawn.

That's T. Lou, man. No, that's not me. My basketball IQ is not that good. But I think part of it, it's not, for me at least, as like when I played, of course, but also as an observer now, part of the matchup thing. So if I go switch on you, right, you've now got it a favorable matchup. Part of it is not just so that you can get a shot. Part of it, like basketball boils down to can you put two on the ball? Yeah.

And now you create the four on three on the backside. Yeah. I don't think many people know that. You know why? Because everyone now is a narrative of this thing called, I have a bag. Or he doesn't have a bag. It bothers the fuck out of me.

Everyone thinks just because you get a favorable matchup that it means it's one-on-one time. Let's play ones. That's all you hear the kids talk about now. You want to play ones? You want to play ones? What the fuck is this? is that we're, this is not a, this is not Jordan versus Bird, Nintendo.

Like, we're, this, it's five on five. And yes, if you have an opportunity to have a favorable matchup and you can beat your man, but realize something, most great teams are going to send help. And can you make the right reads? Can you make the right reads? Can you instill confidence in your teammates to win? you've scored twice on that favorable matchup, do you know that the double is coming

and you have to see it either coming from the tilt on the baseline or from the fire from the nail? You have to be ready for that. And it takes time for guys, and some guys don't want to learn and won't learn because they just want to play once. I've had guys on the court that literally said to me before, why y'all doubling me?

stop doubling me let me play ones you have 40 no no you have 40 we're going to double you not because not only because you're great but also I know none of your teammates have been in a rhythm all game and we're going to see if they can make a shot and if they do Derek Jeter salute cap to you two things on that I think the clippers

game the other night was a great example of that. So first of all, they're one of the most switch-heavy teams in the NBA. So it wasn't abnormal that you got going in the fourth quarter and they were switching Daniel Tyson on to you. That is their normal defense. So you hit a couple shots on him, then they start doubling, right? And then you're making the read. There's like a, there's a downhill or like a snowball effect going down a hill to this, right? It's like one thing leads to another. So I think in some ways that the player has to establish that he can score in that matchup.

Correct. And then the next part is he has to establish he's going to then make the right read if you double. Correct. Then all of a sudden, if you're the offensive team, all bets are off. You're going to get whatever you want. You're going to get whatever you want then. Because the defense has no choice. There's nothing they can do then. They're

not only if they're off balance, they just like, oh shit, it's nothing we can do. Because not only is the guy that's been dominating the one-on-one matchup, making the right reeds individually in that match-up, he's been scoring, he's been getting fouled, he's been drawing attention. But now you're seeing the double, and now his teammates are making shots too, and the momentum shifts, the offense of team, there's nothing they can do wrong.

Do you think teams concede the switch too much? Like, do you think teams switch too much? Yes. Do you think more teams should just, if you're Atlanta, should you just hedge with Trey Young? Absolutely. Absolutely. It's funny, you say that. In the Clipper game, we had switching built-in versus Kauai and verse James and whatever the case may be and I vetoed it in the second half.

Because I know T-Loo more than any other player that's ever been with T-L, and I know he plays target ball too. and it got to a point where I knew in order for us to get back into the game switching anybody else into Kauai it's not favorable for us might as well just get ready for the Wizards so I vetoed it

are you able to to do that on a nightly basis though like take that that matchup it's asking a lot LeBron it's asking a lot at 39 I think I saw it the other day. I think I have like 70,000 minutes. I was explaining to my wife the other day. She

asked me, how am I feeling when I came home after a game? I say, babe, just imagine buying a 2003 escalate and it's 2024 and you never change the tires. So rub my feet, please. And I've never changed the tires. These are the same tires from 2003. So can I do it every night? I don't want to say I could do it for a whole game. I mean, I can't. I'll take the challenge for sure.

But that's just, I'm a competitor. I was born that way. I was taught that way. I'll die on the court because I just love it so much. Am I being realistic? I got to pick my spots. Definitely got to pick my spots. You've also picked your spots, though, on the offense, Ben.

Like, I was talking with Darwin about this, and I've spoken with Austin, too. There's definitely a stronger ability. I don't want to know if the ability is right where, but a stronger ability, like, to just let D.Lo run the offense, to let Austin run the offense. And I know you had that at different points in your career with different guys, but it seems like you're more content at this stage in your career to like, I'm going to pick and choose my spots about when I'm the primary creator. Yeah, for sure.

I mean, I, yeah, it comes with trust. It comes with trust too. Obviously last year in the Memphis series, AR gained a lot of trust for me, but also had trust in him to make the plays, I believe it was game three, maybe, or game two. I think they had home court. Yeah, they had home court. So it was either game one or game two, where in the fourth quarter,

I, you know, just like, A.R., let's go winning for us. You know, and I wanted to see, like, I play a lot of chess, not in real life. I've actually, you know, a lot of people have told me you should, look,

you should play chess because you'll be great. I've never played chess, but in my mind in theory, I feel like I play chess on the floor. And I feel like if I could get a, and he steal AR and that confidence in that fourth quarter to make plays and win that game, it was just going to pay dividends for the rest of my time with him and the rest of his time

when I'm not with him. You know, I love seeing the success of my teammates more than anything. And so to have the ability now to be just like, I pick my spots, hey, Delo, you got it. You know, AR, you got it. You know, it means a lot, not only for me before a ball club. All right. I'm going to go over these blitz numbers because we're talking about two on the ball. And this is interesting. So this year, top five players that have been blitz and pick and roll. Luca by a lot. By far. By far, almost 200 more blitz. And then everybody, the next four guys are bunched together. It's Brunson, Anthony Simons, Dane, and Book. Top five by ISO, Janice, Kauai, Julius Randall, Anthony Davis, and Ben Caro. Those are the top five by ISO. guys it's interesting i looked up your i your blitz numbers in the tracking era and you were first in iso doubles in 13 and 14 uh second in 15 16 and top 10 in 17 18 and 19 20 you've never

actually been in the top 20 in blitzes against pick and rolls why do you think that is because i make all the right reads i think it's it's that simple you're right simple teams know they can't blitz me to pick and roll but there's what's interesting about luke and Luca, I think, he's one of a handful of guys in this era that can make any pass against the double team. Any. James is one of them. Yep. You are for sure.

Luke is one of them. Yep. So why are you blitzing him? I don't understand it. Especially with the shooting, they surround me too. It doesn't make sense. Like I get the Brunson thing has been since Randall's out. Yeah.

The uptick and blitzes have gone way up, right? Yeah, I don't have that. Yeah, for sure. I get that. I get that as well. You know, you have to, he's a one-head monster right now with the Knicks, and they blitzing him and making other guys beat him. I saw Golden State do it a lot last night as well before our game.

But, yeah, it doesn't, because he's going to make every read. And when Tim Hardaway is hitting six or seven threes, you're done. Kyrie's going to get, what Kyrie's going to do what Kyrie does. Luke is going to do what he does. When you get Tim Hardaway hitting six or seven, seven threes, and in our game earlier this year, we blitzed Luca and Dante Exum hit five

six threes. Yeah, that, that I guess what's interesting to me with great players, because everybody always talks about mixing it up. You've got to mix up the coverage and pick a roll. You've got to mix up how you double, when you double, all that stuff, right?

So, for example, just so we're clear on this, when you double, By that, what I mean is the guys in the midposts in isolation against the mismatch. Is it on the dribble? Is it on the dribble? Yeah, yeah, exactly. How you double. As you said, tilt, is it coming from the baseline or is it coming from the nail?

You have to talk about all those things. I just think with spacing and with shooting, there's just no good answer. So if people want explanations about why we're having all these scoring outputs, it's because there's not a good fucking answer. Atlanta Blitz is the most in the NBA. they decided not to blitz Luca Donchich because they were worried about the consequences and he had 73.

He had 73. Right? There's just not good answers for the best players right now. No. And it goes back to the three-point shooting, as you said. Teams are afraid of teams

hitting six or seven or eight threes in a game right now. So this is where all the switching occurs now. Everyone's saying, okay, let's get to the switch. switches, at least we will keep everybody home. But then you realize when you switch a non-favorable defender on a great player, if that great player knows going to make the reads, they're going to get threes anyways because they're going to drive. There's going to be a help

and there's going to be a numbers game. So it doesn't matter. So it has to come to a point it's like, what are we willing to give up? Not what are we willing to stop? You can't stop great guys you can't stop great players just hope they miss but what are we willing to give up and then you have to just tip your head like these scoring outputs is is insane i wish i was back in like 2012 right now with the young legs with the young young tires young tires yeah the tires was only 11 000 the switching thing is interesting too to me because there's certain teams that can put switch-heavy lineups out there, right? Yeah, you need the personnel to be able to switch, right?

And you need to be able to trust certain guys. So, like, Tailu clearly trusts his bigs to be a switch. To the point, like, going back to Luca, I played on that team in 21 that lost in Game 7 against the LA Clippers. Yeah. And he trusted Zubats to switch onto Luca that entire series, despite the fact that Luca was killing him.

Right. Because he didn't want to get in rotation, right? So what's interesting to me, though, about the switching against switchable lineups. So you have five guys that are capable is how creative teams have gotten with defeating the switches. So it's two of the hardest actions to guard to me right now are ghost screens with a great shooter. And running into a pick and roll, it's not a traditional slip. Right. You run into a pick and roll, you touch the guys back, and then you get behind the defense.

And if you have a guy like Christops Porzingus or Jason Tatum that is doing that, you can't guard that. So you could be like, oh, yeah, we're going to switch. Teams have now figured out ways to exploit switching. I mean, even, I mean, I know Washington is in the shitter, but even last night in our matchup last night, we got to a switching lineup.

But Coos was hip-tapping AR, and we were calling Switch. And AR two times couldn't get, back to Coos and he was able to get into the lane. He missed one, made one, but exactly what you're just saying. Like, teams are figuring out ways to, when the switches happen, how can I exploit a switch? That's interesting. You brought up the hip tap, too. So, like, on the go screen, you called it a bluff screen. The go screen, like you guys used to, when I was in New Orleans, KCP, I'd guard him. He would do this all

the time. So let's say we are in a switch defensively. We're in a switch. if the guy slips on a go screen, my job is to go with him. Yeah, call square. Right? Square, square, slip, slip. But offensive players, as they're running up in the screen, they tap the guy on the hip. So you're switching on, you're supposed to switch on contact. When you feel the contact, you think it's a switch.

Now the ball handlers goes. And I'll open up and he's done. And I'm doing my job because he slips, so I'm going with him. That's why it's hard. That's why it's hard. In real time, it's like, yeah, we can have all these rules, but then you got to do it in real time. That's why NBA is the best league in the world. That's why it's hard for me to watch my son play college basketball.

You want to go there? I love you in college basketball. I fucking hated Duke, but I love watching you. I love Duke now because Kay is my guy now, obviously, for obvious reasons. But it is hard watching a 40-minute college basketball game. It's hard. I get more anxiety, and I sweat more, watching. college basketball, especially my son now than I've ever done in my life.

I still watch legitimate teams, ranked teams. They will run a play, and their best player will get the ball on the wing, and they will have a non-threat big man posting up on the same side, and the guard or the wing will get. drive into the occupied post. And I'm like, guys, it's 2024. We can all watch YouTube. There's a wealth of information out there.

Why are we still playing this way? I don't, I've never understood why a coach will throw the ball into a post to his big. That has no business with the ball in the post. The only time the ball should go into the post to the post to the, the big, if he's automatically, as soon as he catches it, flatten the defense, he goes right back into a DHO uphill, uphill, roll. If he's not a pocket passer, you can't throw it to the, you throw it to the rim, or his job is to just shrink the defense because his role was so dynamic. I watch college games, and I see guys throw the ball in the poster guys, and they

turn around and shoot a jump shot or a running left-hand jump hook. This one drives me. crazy. You see like a few young NBA guys that we'll get like because we don't post anymore unless you're like Joel and beating

yokech right? You see young NBA guys will get a rebound and the defense will be on it and they'll shoot you know the shot I'm talking about the big guy shoot

it's like it's not a real shot it's not a real shot it's not a real shot it's not a real shot there's one other thing you can do on the post which leads me

to God fucking segue is so good man I love it it's a good conversation no it's great people somebody asked me this other day they're like

triangle comps it Nobody runs the triangle anymore, right? Does it exist in the NBA? And the truth of matter, there are still concepts that exist. So we don't, the Chicago cut, which was when you throw it in the post, the guard would cut through, screen in the middle of paint. For the big guy, you don't want to switch that. If you do switch it, you know, Peckovich from Minnesota would catch the ball at five feet against me and just jump hook, right? Easy breezy.

Teams don't really run the Chicago cut anymore. The two things that they still run, Blind Pig. Yep. which New York runs for Brunson all the time, where Hartenstein or Mitchell Robertson flashes to the elbow. You deny Jalen Brunson, he's getting that back cut going downhill. They'll get into the step-up picker rolls with blind pig action, right? And then the Golden State post-splits.

The post-splits. The post-splits. I have been wanting to have this conversation with you for so many years because I have said the Golden State Post-Splits, specifically with that team, is like the hardest action to guard. I was doing research on something else the other day and I was looking up because I was for a Boston game

because Porzingis has the highest efficiency in the tracking era for points per direct post-up, right? Every time they switch a smaller guy on him, he's mashing, whatever. Draymond was at the top of the list for a bunch of years. In 1819, he had the highest efficiency

on post-ups of any player in the NBA. And you're like, well, Draymond doesn't score in the post. But they're throwing him the ball. and either step and claire running their action we saw back in 22 wiggins would be the screener slip for the dunk yeah they also involved the big so step and claire doing their little dance looney then comes and cleans it up yep because the big and this garland looney is sitting in the damn paint yeah exactly it's the hardest thing to guard you guarded at four straight finals yep what are your thoughts on how to defend it when draymond catches a ball in the post

the one thing the first thing you have to do you have to track his eyes You can't track the ball because Draymond has the ability. What they kind of, they started to take out in our league. There's a swipe through. So obviously he has his back towards the basket. You have to track his eyes because if you track the ball with your hand, he'll go underneath your arms. He used to get that foul.

The second thing you have to do, you have to get the bodies right away. And you can't get to the top side because Steph and Clay are great at backdoors and get to the rim. You have to get to the lower hip of them. and who's ever setting the screen has to give a little space so you don't allow to slip and the guy that's guarding

either step or clay that's coming off you have to get to the bottom hip of their shoulder and trail them all the way out the two most important people and the whole thing is the two guys that's weak side when they have those

When they have certain shooters out there, it's very difficult. But nine times out of ten, when we were playing them in the finals, it was, at times, it was Javelle McGee and Igadala. It was Andrew Bogart. Sean Levinson. Sean Livingston, Harrison Barnes. When everything went Haywire, when it was fucking Kevin Durant over there and another shooter.

it was like impossible to guard because you couldn't help from the weak side because now draymond's such a great IQ player if you help if you tag from the guy on the weeks he throws it all the way across court you can actually see there's a play that you can watch on youtube probably where they were taking the ball out on the sobby no side out of the bounce yeah not son of a bitch sorry guys side out of balance and I was getting ready I was two nine on the strong side because they were by getting some split action. Steph takes the ball out and throws it all the way to the weak side corner by their bench and I try to close out to KD because I'm looking trying to shrink the floor. He throws it from the sideline, I bounce all the way across. I close out, slips, falls on the ground, KD dunks the ball. But back to your point that I don't understand, well, I do understand why most teams don't run it, because they don't have the personnel.

They don't have the personnel. There are certain teams that, like, right now, Mike Brown in Sacramento is kind of running some split action. He has those shooters. He has, you know, obviously Kevin Herder. You know, he has the kid, Keegan Murray, who can shoot the piss out of the ball. And also the speed of Deerrin Fox.

You know, they play a lot of pinch posts with De Manis, who's now triple double threat every game. You need a pastor like Submonds. You have to have, yeah. You have to have a pastor like Submastor Dremon. Yeah, yeah, exactly. You're like DeMontish, Dreemontis, Draymond, Martin Gassau, back in his day, you know, certain guys, obviously, Joker.

He does. He's one of a kind. But you have to have the personnel. You have to have the personnel. The thing with the post splits for me is, like, you can, let's say they involve Looney. What do they call you? What do your kids call you? Dad.

Why? No, when you're coaching, what do they call you? Coach, JJ, coach. Oh, they just call you JJ. They just call you JJ. Oh, shit. Okay. No, we don't want to talk to you right now, Siri.

They just call me JJ. They just call you JJ. Okay, you got a good, good chemistry with your kids. I tell them all this, I tell them this all the time. You brought up the flubbing that ATO play. Yeah. I don't care if you miss a shot. I don't even care if you take a bad shot.

I've never yelled at a kid or gotten on a kid for taking any shot. I'd never have. Now, I may, after a game be like, hey, you know, we were up seven with 42 seconds. You didn't need to shoot it in. Step back three. We could have just dribble the clock out, right? What drives me crazy, though, is when I'd drive. draw an ATO, and then we go out and they forget it.

It was like, dude, it's been 10 seconds. My big thing with them now is like, don't worry about what I'm drawing up. Just watch you. Just pay attention to you. Just watch you. Just watch you. Anyways. So let's say you involve Kavanaugh or whatever.

Yep. And so the big decides to like, you know, be in a drop back here. Yep. So Steph and Clay, they're up here doing their dance or whatever. Yep. They're going to get an open three. Yep. Right?

Yep. If you switch out with Kavana Looney's guy, I think what's always been difficult for me is someone who's guarded that action. You were talking about body position. Yep. Bro, sometimes it doesn't matter. They're so good. The second you get on that angle, the second you turn your head,

the cutting to the basket is the hardest part to me. Yeah. Like, I can chase over a screen and get a contest on three. But, like, they're just, they keep you off balance, which is interesting that you bring up the weak side being the key to the whole thing. But you, that's, that's like, what you're saying is advanced basketball.

You know, what, it's, you're saying, if I'm going to Draymond in a post, Kavon Looney is at the quad. They're doing their thing. At the free throw line. They're doing that anything. You're saying that if he has a wide open three, why not, are you saying

Draymond's man, just go take and then Kavanaugh-Luny just stays in the paint? Is that what you're saying? No, I'm saying as this guy, as one of them. Yep. So we can switch this action. Let's say we're switching this action.

I'm saying if Kavanaughan Luni is so worried he's in this, his guy's in this drug, and he's off the body. We're going to live with the contested three. Yeah, yeah. Right? You're going to give that up if you're worried about taking the layup.

Yeah, for sure. The second you bring Kavon Luni up, They're getting a layup. Yeah, for sure. They're getting a layup. They're too, it's too hard to guard. Yeah. The dance is too hard.

Right. And they've done it so many times. You're absolutely wrong. You go back to that 22, dude, that 22 finals run where they just like, all right, so Wiggins is getting guarded by whoever. Draymond's got the ball and we're just going to involve two people. We're not even going to put the big in there. Yeah. How many cuts did Wiggins get?

He runs into the split action and doesn't even stop and just slip straight to it. And it's a layup or a dunk. And you know what's interesting? you think about that run, you're talking about getting in the playoffs, you can't beat high basketball IQ teams with a low basketball IQ teams. No, there's no way. And at the time, some of those teams, I didn't think were high basketball IQ teams. You're absolutely right.

It's interesting. Aaron Gordon talked about that because they beat them in the first round, and that was a big takeaway for me. Now, they didn't have the personnel. They didn't have KCP, right? They didn't have the personnel. Murray was hurt. But I'm not saying, I would never say a guy's dumb.

I'm saying basketball IQ. Yeah, yeah, for sure. They got outsmarted that series. Yeah. Yokic was a monster, all that stuff, but they got out smarter. They got all smarter. And Aaron Gordon has talked about coming off of that series being like, I got to become a smarter basketball player.

Yeah. To win at the highest level. To win at the highest level. He did it. He did it. There's a lot of things, other things I would do in basketball, too. Like, it's a couple other coverages I would do. The pick-the-picker B-O-B.

Not bombs over Baghdad, but baseline out-the-bounds. America's play. America's play. You have the guard, you have the best shooter sitting in the middle of the lane. You have the bigger's wing

sitting at the top. Five is on the strong side. You have the point guard taking it out. And then the weak side corner. In the weak side corner. When the, no one ever,

it's not many times that the guy, the wing, that's coming down in the middle, gets that pass. Because in theory, if you're guarding the ball, one 1,000, 2,000,

take away the basket, and then jump out, right, to take away the shot. I've always wanted to, no coaches ever allowed me to do this or giving me the freedom to do this. The guy that's guarding the ball, when he says 1-1-1-000, 2-1-000, 3-1,000, why doesn't he just take the guard that's coming out for the pick-to-picker?

And the guard that's guarding the pick-to-picker guy just falls right to the guy that's taking the ball out? Yeah You go 1,000 to 1,000 JJ Reddick is flying off Left right where you know he's dangerous He can shoot straight up and down

If he wants to Or he's going to fade If he wants to as well Maybe kick you It's my natural shooting motion It's my natural shooting motion I'm guarding the ball I just take JJ

And the guard Who's chasing you Just falls right to the To the guy That's taking the ball out That's one That's not We can talk about that

So no no So what's interesting about that. I like that. I'll tell you why. Because someone who ran that play, right? So whether I slipped or set the screen, I'm coming off. A lot of teams after 2-1000 would send the guy, the guard in the takeout guy. They'd send them to me. The problem is my guy's still chasing. So what happens? I get the ball. I don't have a shot because now I got two guys at me. It's a quick pass back to the inbounder. He gets a lay-up. So don't chase you. That's what I'm saying. It's actually a guy.

It's actually a good coverage. Take you to the screen. Yeah. And at the screen, the X-5, that's guarding the pick-the-picker big, opens up, and you slide right to the guy that's guarded. I didn't know if you wanted a second glass. I didn't know. Okay. I love talking basketball, by the way.

The other play, and it goes back to the go-screen, that I think is really difficult to guard. And you've been the ball handler in this case, is the inverted picking role. So, Janus. fucking yokech now and bead now all these guys they take the weakest defender they take a shooter whatever it may be and they go set an on ball screen

for the big last night in the Knicks game Draymond had it at the top and Steph was in the paint to go set the high pick to go set this inverted pick and roll now Steph has a number of options here he can slip out he can set the pick

they can go back to a dribble handoff If he passed the theft, like, they're two-man dances really hard. They decided to top lock Steph, so he couldn't get to the screen. And Steph screened him. Seth streamed him into Draymond's guy. Draymond got a wide-up and dunk. That is a insanely difficult action to guard. Fucking last year in the Western Conference Finals, I can't remember which game it was,

but it was in the fourth quarter, they ran that three times. With Murray as the screener, Yokic is the ball handler. On the right wing, right in front of the bench. Right in front of the bench. Yep. How would you guard that? There's a couple ways you can. How do you guard it?

How do you stop it is two different things. Depending on the ball handler and his shooting ability, if he's not a great shooter or numbers-wise, he hasn't shot the ball well, then the guard that's guarding the screener just, we call it a smack. You stay body-on-body with the screener, and the big that's guarding the ball, X-4, X-5, whatever, goes too removed.

So he goes not only under the screener, he goes under his teammate as well. If the big is not a great shooter. If the big has it going and he's shooting a whale, i.e., you know, it could be, you know, Joel, it could be Prozingis, it could be Joker, where he might be shooting a whale, then the guard can get out and give a hard-ass hedge and the big, that's guarding the ball,

goes one remove. So he goes underneath his player, in between his player and the officer player. If that doesn't work, then you have to switch and then fire. And that's what, with Joker, that's what makes their team insanely to guard. Because when you switch and you find,

he can make every single pass and fire means double from the top all right so two things to this um so in the first scenario this i'm again this is why i'm asking you because i want to tell you now why it's hard and you know this i'm not telling you telling the audience the first scenario which you described which is a non-shooter yeah i.e yannis i.e. ben simmons okay so i'm setting an invert we called it 12 and we would get in sometimes we get into 12 rub rifle which is then I would slip out Ben would hit me I'd swing it immediately go to chase action with Joe on the right corner I either get a shout or pocket pass to you all right but in a normal 12 rub with Ben if the defense was all the way back he has a runway not only that I'm just going to go get a dribble handoff and get a wide

open shot yeah so if you want to play off of Joel with maxi and maxi wants to say maxi just go get the ball and shoot ball jumper yeah at any point in time right The other reason I think this is so hard, because I took a lot of pride in my screening, big guys are terrible at navigating screen. For sure. So in the second scenario, when you're talking about going third man removed, that sounds great in theory. Right, right, right, right.

The problem is... I mean, maybe I was just speaking from a... No, no, no, no. I have Anthony Davis, so I know, I know, who's a hybrid, but yes, you're absolutely right. That's the other part of this, is like, and by the way, they let guards, they just do. They didn't hold, yeah, for sure. He's not used to, like, shooting the gap. No, you're right.

You go run like a normal high pick and roll where I'm going to screen the five man first. You know, I go down, screen the five man. I can come back up in the Spain action or I can go out to the corner. Like, I would sit there. I'd sometimes be on the screen for four seconds. Yeah, for sure.

They just don't know what to do. And then all of a sudden they're, you know, chucking me in the throat or pushing off. And I get an offensive belt. And that's what makes it even more dynamic because then when you have a guy like Janice and Ben, when he was in his groove, you know, and Joel and now Yok is,

they have the ability to, you know, obviously, Janish is like the best at it. And today he has the ability to have the defense go one way, and then the guard will flip screen it. So now the guard that's guarding X2, Verjeal screen, of course, the Verjez off screen. He'll be on this side, getting ready to show or blitz or heads, and now they flip the screen, and when he crosses over, there's nobody over there. it's

you don't and then once Giannas get to the launching pad you know it's over he's gonna dunk you and the ball

in the room come on let's do it grandma of the glass man JJ I want to finish oh yeah

I brought these from home man I was for you how you resultos yeah you know it Debron

thank you for your generosity with the wine oh I appreciate you appreciate I appreciate it I'll make sure you know

home court home court Last time I was ready. Last time I was ready. So I'll have some for you next time. I'm not wrestling, man. I can always bring a while. I got plenty of it.

I'm needing somebody to drink with it. Hey guys. Thanks for listening. Thanks for watching Mind the Game podcast. If you like it, please hit that subscribe button. Thank you. Hello, I'm Dax Shepard. And I'm Monica Padman.

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