Mind the Game - The Luka Doncic Interview (Part 1)

Episode Date: June 1, 2025

Mind the Game with LeBron James and Steve Nash is honored to welcome in, brand new member of the Los Angeles Lakers, Luka Doncic. In part 1 of our episode with Luka, we talk to him about his transition from the Dallas Mavericks to the Lakers and playing with his childhood idol, LeBron James. We also dig into how he fell in love with basketball in Slovenia and moving to Spain to play for Real Madrid. Finally, we do a deep dive on a topic that is near and dear to our hearts, youth basketball. Luka has commissioned a study called ‘Inside Youth Basketball’ through his the Luka Doncic Foundation that studies the impact of youth basketball in Europe and the United State. This is an amazing conversation with part 2 dropping soon so be sure to follow and subscribe to Mind the Game wherever you consume your podcasts.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Mind the game. Man. We're back. Star-studded cast today. Good, brother. We're happy to welcome the great look of Donchitz. Thank you. What a pleasure?

A big-time pleasure. Had to Don on to speak about multiple topics. Multiple topics, the most important, I think, is everyone wants to know, like, what's your take on the season finale of White Lotus? What was that? What you said? I was saying. I'm just kidding.

I'm just kidding. Never mind. Never mind. Welcome to Mind the Game, presented by Uninterrupted and Wondry. In this episode, we're thrilled to be joined by Luca Donchich. We cover a bunch of topics, starting with his move to Los Angeles, playing with one of his idols, LeBron James, and also his work. work with the Luca Donchich Foundation and the commissioned study he's provided of developing youth basketball players in Europe versus the United States. Stick around to the end of the episode

where I'll talk a little bit more about why I'm on Luca's Athletes Council, why it's important to me, and how we can all help improve the landscape of youth basketball. So thanks for watching. Please enjoy and we look forward to this episode. Honestly, this is amazing to have you. Appreciate it. You know, it's usually just the two of us, but we reserved a third spot for the main man. And, you know, really, I think it'd be unfair for the audience. We didn't ask you off the bat what it's like playing together.

How you feel playing with LeBron. I know you looked up to him as a kid and now you guys are teammates. I mean, it's great. You see, I've never played a guy like this. And, you know, just being traded to here, to LA. It was different. different but just to play with guys like him like it's unbelievable like I can learn so many stuff you know first of all the court you know all the things he does just to be ready for the

game and obviously on the court everybody knows what kind of player he is what uh like give me an example of a couple things you've seen like being around him every day where you're like he does that like what's he doing over there like is there anything that stands out initially where you're like wow well first of all he shows up like 10 hours before the game so that was really the main Like, I was, what? I came to the arena. For 22 years? He was already done working out.

I was like, what? Yeah, yeah. And then what about playing together? Like, you guys are so similar, you know, obviously different stages of your career, but you're so similar the way you see the game, the way you process the game, the way you can, you know, abuse bigger defenders, you can bully smaller defenders. You're both computers the way you read the game. Like, has it been fun to?

to see someone that you understand the way he thinks and to be able to play off each other? Yeah, you didn't mention the bounce. The bounce? Yeah, minus the bounce, minus the bounce. A lot of similarities. No, it's been great, but just, you know, I still think it's a work in progress.

You know, when we two are out there, and they are, you know, he's been playing unbelievable. And I think it's just still work in progress, you know, I think we're getting better and better every day. I mean, I think you saw today. against OkC, you know, it's hard to win here. The number one team in the West for a reason. And we just, you know, we shared the ball.

Everybody was getting an open shot. So still, it's working progress, but we're getting better and better every day. It was interesting. I noticed, you know, OKC so handsy, athletic, you know, they speed people up. They can't speed them up. Like, what are your, what's your take? Were you saying you have no speed? No speed, just don't show it.

But you handle all that pressure. And then you can dissect the team. Once that pressure breaks, now you're playing your game. Do you notice sometimes when he's able to just calm things down and take charge? No, like you said, I mean, it's always his pace. It's always been his pace. You know, it's never been a game be like, okay, well, you can speed me up. He can speed me up.

Okay, this bigger guy can be more physical. Okay, the smaller guy can get up underneath me. It's like he moves at his own pace. And he's never ever been on the floor where he's allowed. someone to dictate where they're going to put him on the floor. It's always been the opposite, you know, and for us, we all working off of that, we just got to stay ready. You know, obviously we've seen throughout his career, like there's plays and passes that

certain guys that in the league history have ever been able to make, you know, and, you know, for us, we all just have to make sure that we continue to stay ready, especially when you're going against hansy teams, athletic teams, teams that try to speed you up. We always have to keep our head on a swivel because you just, you just never know. You just never know when the ball may find you. And that's a good thing. That's keeping the defense off balance. And that's a great thing to have that.

Yeah, you know, it's a great point. One of the, like, you guys are both incredible passers, one of the things about your passing game that I always really admire is the late pass. Like, did you do that as a kid or is that something you developed as you got older? But it's like, it's almost over. And then you go, like, almost 180 behind you to someone for three. like where did that come from like is that something that you always did or it developed in time i think it developed during time i don't think i did that as a kid yeah i remember that but just you know what i always said to my team is you know once i go up stay in your spot

because i know where you were before and then if i don't have any option i'll pass it to you yeah yeah but i think it through time you know i don't think i did it as a kid but it's i mean it's brilliant i mean you've made every pass there's been and you obviously pass over people but it's it's great because the natural kind of thinking of a defender is when you leave your feet is they kind of turn and they think my guy's out of the play i got to get ready to either rotate or rebound or crash yeah they've come in a little bit and the ball's going over there they can't get back out so you you know but you can't do that without division but also with your size i could i can make late passes but my my you know my matrix and late

passes was limited, you know what I mean? So you're able to make that high one over the top of the defense, catch them sleeping when they already think the play's over for them. Yeah. And so that's something that I really admire about your game. There's not a lot of people can do that. I think that was during time, you know, just probably when I got to the NBA. Yeah, not at Madrid. I mean, probably some, but not like this. Not like this. You know what I wanted to ask you, switching gears a little bit, is you come from a small country. I have. Beautiful country. I went there summer. We were at the Goren Drogich retirement game. How did I look out there on the court? The soccer thing was better. Soccer game was better. Because it was small court.

Yeah, that's true. But it's a beautiful country. Two million people? Two million people. I mean, which makes it incredible they won the European championship in Mungogi and obviously everybody, but you two leading the charge. You now live in Los Angeles. How was that? for you like the day you find out like you're you know a city that's bigger than your country you know southern california is like 30 million people it's overpopulated right like how how was that for you culturally to all of a sudden be like oh man i live in one of the biggest cities in the world well first of all like this is the first city i play in that has an ocean and i really like

the ocean so that was that was nice first thing i mean after a couple days i was the first thing in one mind, you know. It's a lot. I like it. I like it very much. The only, the only thing is the traffic. But you're also, you're, you're quiet, you're unassuming. Like, you're like, it's Hollywood out there. Is that take an adjustment for you? Or are you like, no, that part doesn't bother me. No, not really. But like there's, every time there's famous people, you know, watching our game, who's sitting courtside. That's, I mean, that's amazing to see, but not really, Not that much. The first thing, I asked you for questions.

Like, are you adjusting? I'm adjusting. I'm adjusting. I like the beach. It's the first thing you said, I like the beach. That made it feel okay. I got to go fishing. Yeah. But it's a different pace of life.

Yeah. A little bit. Traffic like you said. And I like to drive, you know. So you like to drive. Have you gone and have you driven outside of L.A. What do you mean? Like, so, for example, like, I think it's, what's cool about L.A.

We think about L.A. is a big city. But within an hour and a half, two hours. Santa Barber. You go Santa Barbara. You go San Diego, you know. Yeah. You could go to the mountains. Yeah, Orange County.

Orange County. Yeah, yeah. All over the place. Malibu. Malibu. There's a million places to go within two hours, right? Ohai or all over the place. So, you know, like you like to drive.

Yeah, but I didn't try it. You've only did that. The first place I would try was Santa Barbara. Because I was there, when I was 17 or something like that, I went to P3. Yeah, P3, so I really liked that. It's peaceful. Yeah.

I like it. Yeah. Beach, of course. Quiet. Some good wine on there too. Like, yeah. Great restaurants. It's like a little bit more like Slovenia.

Yeah, but I wasn't allowed to drink at 17, so I don't know. In Slovenia, yeah. Okay. You make up for it. Make up for it. This episode is sponsored in part by American Express. American Express knows that for an obsessive basketball fan like me, the playoffs mean a lot of travel time. Between broadcasting games and catching up with old teammates, I'm on the road almost every week, from Boston to L.A. and everywhere in between.

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For more information, visit Americanexpress.com slash travel. Well, one of the things that I really want to talk about tonight is youth basketball development. We've all gone through it. We've all had to build ourselves up as players. You've now had two sons, one who's basically gone through it, and the other one who's right in the middle of it. You grew up in Europe. I grew up in Canada.

It always fascinates me how people develop and what systems. And so your foundation, the Luca Dantridge Foundation, has obviously, that made this incredible study. You commissioned a study called Inside Youth Basketball, like 300-something pages where for a month they studied how people are trained and grow up playing the game in Europe versus how they're trained and playing the game in the U.S. and try to find out as many things as possible to help kids get better.

What inspired this for you? I think just seeing like kids not putting out of sports these days, you know, more and more kids are putting out of sports. just probably didn't have as much fun as I did when I grew up. So that's why we have a study in America and study in Europe. So we're trying to combine the weaknesses and the strength together. So, you know, the main thing was just kids to have fun playing basketball, especially when you're young.

You know, you don't want to have fun. I think about anything. Just go out there and have fun. So there's been a study that claims that 70% of kids quit youth sports by the time they're 13 because basically the joy is pushed out of it. Too much pressure. Not enough fun. I'd love to know about your childhood. Like, how did you, both of you? How did you fall in love with basketball? Well, for me, I wasn't good in any other sports, except soccer. I was.

You're okay? Not like you. I've seen your first touch. Not like you, but, you know. But I've also seen you hit a tennis ball. Yeah, I was playing a lot of sports. Tennis, soccer, and basketball were the main ones. I played in volleyball. I played. So it was for me, was fun just to do sports. And then I went outside, you know, like after school, I went outside every time. Just play basketball. Yeah. Playing hoops from a young age or playing anything? Anything. Anything. Most of basketball. Yeah. Because your dad, Sasha, was your league. Yeah. Playing the Euro league. Great player. So you obviously... He was okay. He was okay. All right. Just making sure. But I mean, but that's also like, like my dad was a soccer player,

so I grew up playing the back care playing soccer. It must have had an influence on you. Yeah, for sure. Like, I went to his games, you know, I was, well, I started, like, being boy. I was a lot of boy boy in early games. I was ball boy for Olympia. So that's how I used my time to just get on basketball, the latest game. Before the game, half time and after game, I was just shooting. And what about you, LeBron?

Like, what was the first moment where you basketball came in your life and you're like, I love this? Yeah. I mean, I don't know the exact moment, but, you know, I think I was able to watch. you know when I had the I got to see some of the greatest they played the game I was like inspired by them like I was inspired by MJ and you know inspired you know by Anthony Penny Hardaway and Grant Hill and those guys like their sneakers inspired me the commercials they used to do back then inspired me and then you know just being outside you know I just always I was always a kid that just

wanted to play whatever it was if we was playing we was playing tag and we was playing football we was playing baseball and We was playing football, basketball. You played everything. Everything, kickball. You know, that was very popular in my community. Just running around and just exerting as much energy as possible till the lights, you know, on the street came on.

It was time to get in the house. Like, I just wanted to do whatever. And then I think once I got into like, you know, the youth leagues where it started being competitive, I actually love the competitive nature of basketball. You know, being out there five on five, and we're playing for something, you know, we're playing to see who can score the most points

and win the game, you know, and then ultimately it got to like, oh, if we win the majority of the games, we can win something. We win a champ, have a banquet and have medals and little trophies. Like, that stuff inspired me, you know, because I watched, you know,

NBA guys and college guys at the end of the season they get to host a trophy or whatever. I thought that was pretty inspiring. So, you know, as a kid, you just always inspired by the ones that's already, doing it. You know, I think that that was a big moment for me, for sure. It's funny you said the commercial. I was like, I didn't really start playing hoops until I was about 13, like played hockey, soccer, baseball, lacrosse, all sorts of stuff.

He's good of soccer and tennis. I saw you. You know, you know, thank you. You still play tennis. You said a little louder. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's good. Still love to play. That's the kid in me that never goes away, right? Like, I still just want to be out there playing. It brings up like a, you know, I was going to say, though, that like when I was 13, I'm really good. got me into basketball was Michael Jordan, the first Air Jordan shoes, commercial Spike Lee, just like you were saying. That stuff inspires you as a young kid. It's like a fun time to get into the game. But what I heard from both of you that I think is really important is you played

informally. You were playing on the playground. You were playing in the street. You were playing all the time informally. And it leads me to a topic here that I think the study really highlights is that, you know, especially in the United States, sports, youth sports has been commercial commercialized. Use sports. So, like, this is my way of explaining it. You know, when I grew up, you play soccer and hockey in the winter. You play baseball, box the cross in the summer. And it costs you like a hundred bucks a season, reach sport. Well, somebody, some entrepreneur, someone says, well, I need to make a, make a business of this, said, well, if I can sell the dream to the family, the little Sarah or Johnny, you know, they might have a chance to go somewhere

with this, but they got to commit to this sport for the year and six, seven, eight. That's the worst thing you can do. Right? So what happens is now the parents are involved. There's a system. They're not playing informally. You know, it leads to personal trainers, strength and conditioning coaches and everything. Like trying to unpack that and rewind it is like now we don't, like how many times do you drive

by a park now and see kids playing basketball? Very rare. Not much. Very rare. Your boys just come through the whole system. Like, do they go to the park and play with their friends? Very rarely. Yeah.

Very rarely. You know, they did play outside a little bit, but mostly it's indoors. They didn't. And programmed. Yeah, and they lived, you know, for the majority of the time, my kids growing up, lived in, you know, South Florida and lived in Southern California. So, like, you know, it was no reason for them not to be outside. Right.

You know, I get it if they, the majority of the time, grew up in Northeast Ohio, where you have four seasons and it's hard to get on an outdoor court where it's, six inches of snow or it's raining crazy um it's just it's not the thing and like you said i think not allowing kids to to just go out and just you know explore all sports you know basketball football soccer lacrosse track and field like me and my guys we ran track and field as well we were like super duper young you know we played football all the way american football all the way through high school you know um we didn't just cap it at one thing you just did one thing all year round and I think a lot of kids burn they burn the hell out you just tell them to do

just okay I'm just do this one all year round I'm just play basketball or just play volleyball just play soccer all year around you you burn out you know at 22 23 24 you know because you've just been doing it or younger 13 17 they start you know they say fuck the hell with I'm done I don't even want to play no more you know so I don't think putting the cap on these kids being able to, they should be able to just explore, man. Do they still play on the playground in Slovenia? Not much. Even there, it's still more program now.

It's fascinating to me because I think, like, what happens is that's where we develop the joy, right? It's playing with your friends. Not a coach telling you what to do. It's trial and error. And it's like on the playground, you're allowed to make mistakes and nobody's going to say anything. And that's, I think that's, like, one of the main points, too.

And that's where you, like, I think every generation learns from the one before. But you also learn from the playground trial and error. Yeah. Like you go and play, you try stuff. It doesn't work. No one says, don't do that. Right, right, right.

Like, you know, like this late passes, like that develops, you know, things you did at your size that no one did. It didn't do if you weren't handling the ball. You had a coach saying you're our four. Yeah. From the time you're, you know, 10 years old. Yeah. I mean, I didn't have a basketball trainer until,

So second, third, maybe fourth year in the NBA. Right. Like, my basketball training was just being on the court. Let's just go hoop. Yeah. Let's go hoop. That's five on five or two on two or three on three or like a game that we played. You know, when I was growing up, it was called 33 or 21.

You know, basically it's one man for himself and you could be guarded by all your friends. And if I score, I go to the free throw on, I shoot two free throws. And I get it back. Like, it's like, and that's how a lot of creation started with me. being able to dribble around three or four guys going behind the bag going to be able to shoot you know getting physical with your friends like you know so yeah it's just it definitely helped me out a lot let me ask let me pose this for you so you're out there trying to get to between two three four guys at your size your size or even my size what is more joyful where do you

learn we learn we learn a lot faster through trial and error or a coach saying here's the cones I want you to cross over, spin, like, that's gone for our kids in a way. Yeah. Right? We don't get that time to just play, to try things, to make mistakes, to play weird games, right? Like, you would never go to a, you know, skills coach right now, and he'd be like, all right, guys, 21. No. Right?

You know what I mean? It's like, we got a program. We're going to try to teach it. And so what happens is the joy, the creativity comes out of the game. And that's why you get kids quitting at 13, right? So, like, did you ever have that? Like, did you ever have skills coaches when you were growing up in Slovenia or just? Just your coach?

No, really. Just my coach, yeah. It's crazy. I don't think, like, skill coach existed. Yeah. You know, I was born in 90s still, so. 99. I mean, but like...

It's still 90s. Barely. Oh, my God, he's born in 99. It's crazy. I just got instantly sleepy when he said he was born in 19. I was your age in 99. That's crazy. You notice the grays, but it is, it's not.

It's not everything's bad, right? Like, I'm not here to say that everything's bad. Some things get better and better and better. We know more about the body. We know more about a lot of things nowadays. But I do think that the commercialization has really made it less joyful, less creative, right? And then you don't have the social aspect as much. Right.

You know, it's like the pressure the system puts on a parent, like, I can't take this away from my kid. I got to give him this chance. Instead of the kid being like, I'm going to the park to play. I'm going to go in the backyard. And so I think it makes it complicated. You know, I don't know how we kind of add that piece back into this puzzle where kids are playing informally. I don't know. Like, maybe this is what you're going to try to do.

That's what we're trying. Like I say, you know, the way I grew up was just going after school, going to court and then go to practice. So I was just, I was outside a lot. I even tried the skateboarding. They built a new skate park when I was playing basketball. So I even tried that. No. I was wearing everything. It wasn't good. I was too tall for there.

That's amazing. So what about this project, you know, inside youth basketball? Like, how do you see it? Like, how do you envision making an impact? Well, first of all, I think we've got great people on it, like yourself. Yeah, the Athletes Council? Yeah. That's cool.

You know, just like we got people that grew up in different places playing basketball. So you grew up in Canada. Staff grew up in U.S., Dirk grew up in Germany. I grew up in Slovenia and Spain. So we're just trying to combine everything, like, you know, like everything together, you know, see the weaknesses, see the strengths. So just combine everything and let the kids have fun. That's the most important part. Let them have fun like I had when I was growing up.

Yeah. It's a great concept. I mean, how can we put our heads together? And like I said, a lot of what we're doing. And I'm not trying to disparage all skills coaches. It's just like it's become an economy that's taken away the informal play. How can we put our heads together and kind of find a part of the puzzle that is informal, that isn't pressurized? So this is what you want to do is to help educate coaches, programs, instill it in different places around the country?

Yeah, and like I'm saying, I think it's a lot for the kids, you know, having all these different kinds. When I grew up, I didn't have anything. I just had one coach. And that was it. There was, I think, we're putting a lot of pressure on kids nowadays. just by having like shrank coach everything right i think i think a lot of the problem is you know with now with social media and everything that a lot of our a lot of people like i can only speak for america because i grew up here and i live here a lot of their skills coaches and trainers and

stuff over that that that's involved in a lot of these kids live they actually want to be more famous than actual kid yeah they think they're more important than actual kid that they're training and their motive is not pure their motive is not pure like They want to be on in the camera. They want to be recognized. They want to talk to the media. Say, for instance, I train Luca for two summers and he has a breakout season. Now they want to do interviews with people like, that's not the fucking objective.

Right. The objective is to be there trying to help this kid get better, try to help this kid, you know, in a sense of him seeing the game maybe further than what he did before. It's not for you now to be famous. Like, and I think that also changed a lot of the landscaping, too, of kids not knowing the purity or the essence and the beauty of the game. Yeah. Yeah, it's, you know, it's tough because I think for me, it all stems back to the commercialization. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Everything being a business now, trying to develop your business as a personal trainer or your business as an AAU team or now we have NIL or whatever it may be.

You know, I think that makes it tough. Now the parents feel the pressure of providing this for the kid. Whereas, and my parents were just like, do you want to play soccer this year? Great. You're signed up. You know what I mean? And then you go play, and then in the backyard, you're playing. You're playing with your friends.

So it starts with that. I think like, like you said, we mentioned burnout. Right? We mentioned burnout. We mentioned, you know, a lot of players that are now committing to one sport early. There's been studies done of NBA players coming in the league at 19. Their MRIs don't look the same. because they didn't go and play football or baseball

or change the dynamic and have that creativity, that joy, that fun. You've had two boys now going through it. Like, maybe talk a little bit about the systemic pressure. Like, what's that like as a parent to feel like all eyes on these kids trying to get a scholarship or whatever I mean? Yeah, yeah.

I mean, for me, as a parent, and like you said, having my two boys go through the whole AAU program, the all-year-round basketball seasons where it's never a break. like I've made sure that our kids and my wife included have always taken a break you know so what does that look like what time of year and how do you say it to the well it usually takes part in like July you know because I remember when I play you know the last tournament was usually like right before the 4th of July that was the last like

AAU tournament and then you didn't play again until the fall when it cracked back up now there's like tournaments right 4th of July right after the 4th of July there's more tournaments in August there's more tournaments like throughout the whole summer there's money to be made yeah yeah absolutely and I'm and myself and Savannah we like we've told our kids like this is not

an all year round thing for you guys one we don't want y'all to burn the hell out and two there needs to be some family time involved as well too like listen we get it we know y'all want to play whatever the case may be but there needs to be family time as well And also, when you get away from things, it actually makes you even more hungry to get back to it.

And that's the burnout thing that we were talking about. You know, it allowed them to come home and, okay, now it's your time, you want to play the video game? Go ahead, play the video game. You know, you want to just hang with your friends? All right, cool. That's not going anywhere. Right.

You know, but I had an opportunity to be a part of it for so long because I grew up in that system as well. I grew up in the AAU system. I grew up in the tournament system. I grew up in the program system. But, I mean, I also grew up going to a five-star academy, you know, where it was all outdoor basketball all day long. You know, so I grew up in that area as well.

Like, and that definitely made us grow a love. If you can be outside on blacktop in the summertime in 95-degree weather, and you can actually see the steam coming up from the blacktop, and you still love it, then you already know that's what it is. You don't need to do that all year round to know that I love that if I came back to it.

Yep. You know, so, you know, I think we did a great job as far as just making sure, yes, if this is what you want to do, you're committed to it, okay, cool, but also there's no problem with just, you know, taking a little break here and coming back to it.

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see dkng.com slash audio. I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Luca Donchich. Being a part of his athletes' counsel for his inside youth basketball study has been a pleasure for me. something that's near and dear to my heart. As someone that fought his way all the way through a long career of basketball, it always fascinates me,

the landscape that kids have to navigate. How can we help them reach for their dreams? Of course, not all kids are gonna make the MBA, but in all sports, kids should have joy, passion, support, belief, systems that allow them to learn the characteristics of teamwork, collaboration, learning how to succeed, and fail, growing up at the appropriate times, resilience. There's so many things that sport affords us.

And when his study came out and other studies similar that have said that 70% of kids have quit sports by the time of 13 because there's too much pressure in the system. There's not enough joy or fun, not enough childhood involved in youth sports. It's alarming, and it's something that I feel very passionate about, not just from the athlete development component,

moment, but from developing the health and wellness of our kids and our communities. Sports is such an incredible tool that offers us a place to learn, to grow, to find out who we are, to make friends, teammates, to collaborate, so many gifts that allow us to succeed in life, whether it's with our families, with our careers, jobs, dealing and navigating with the adversity that we find, we all find in life. These are all things that can really be developed through sport. So when I hear kids are quitting sport, you know, I think it's important for us to really dig deep and find out why kids are quitting and why sport for life is not the goal here. Where joy and passion and being able to enjoy the fruits of a childhood being active,

being healthy, being a teammate, having core memories around sport is so important to our communities, to our families, to our kids. So I feel honored one to have spoken to Luca deeply, about why he commissioned this study, why he wants to affect youth basketball the way he does, and how we can all come together and learn, share best practices, and find a way to be more efficient and effective at helping our youth enjoy sports, whether you're a high performer or whether you're just participating and want to be a part of a team or learn a skill. So important for our communities to give our kids a place to learn, to grow, to fail, to bounce back, and to ultimately succeed in life.

So thank you for watching Mind the Game. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Please subscribe if you haven't. Look forward to seeing you next time. Thank you. Thank you.